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Posted by u/coreyhn 3 years ago
Ask HN: Something you’ve done your whole life that you realized is wrong?
I was helping my son learn to write and realized I’ve been holding the pencil wrong when I write. When I changed my grip to match how my son was learning, it was more comfortable. What have you learned that is different and better than something you’ve always done?
mtlynch · 3 years ago
Staying warm.

In the winter, I used to stay warm by turning up the thermostat. Then I discovered (via HN) the Low-Tech Magazine article, "Insulation: first the body, then the home." [0] The article argued that it's much more efficient to focus on heating yourself rather than your whole living space.

I invested in high-quality wool clothes that I wear in layers and warm slippers. Now, I keep my home about 5 degrees F cooler than I used to for the same comfort, and it's a big reduction in oil and wood consumption for home heat.

[0] https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/02/body-insulation-ther...

iamwpj · 3 years ago
I live in the midwest and cold is normal for a chunk of the year, but one thing always worse than cold: wind. After college at some point I splurged on a North Face jacket with the wind protection bit and it was eye popping how much more tolerable being outside became. I always go for a nicer coat/jacket now -- the value brands at the department stores don't always have the right technology. Good outdoor gear is spendy, but lasts a very long time and is very effective.
HeyLaughingBoy · 3 years ago
So much this. I got all my Marmot & North Face stuff years ago before they became trendy suburban clothing. The little things like reinforced knees or a bit of extra material in the back so you can bend over without wind exposure makes a huge difference when it's -20F. That stuff has been in constant use for 20 years and except for the gloves that finally gave up from being dunked in water and freezing on a daily basis, is still going strong.
scwoodal · 3 years ago
There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad gear ;)
warrenm · 3 years ago
It's almost like the cultures that have "always" lived in cold areas (nordic people, siberians, inuit, etc) knew what to do ... layer with natural fibers - keeping the "treated" side of the clothing facing the outside world :)

Deleted Comment

agotterer · 3 years ago
I live in New York and didn’t own a proper winter jacket until I was in my 30s. I always wore a warm jacket that in hindsight was more appropriate for the fall. I bought a Quartz jacket and it made being outside in the winter so much more fun and tolerable.
therealdrag0 · 3 years ago
For wind I think what matters is having a hard ish shell, knowing that can make price flexible. I have pretty old and cheap winter jacket that I ski in and it keeps me really warm.
theGnuMe · 3 years ago
I have a hard mountain down jacket from 25 years ago with wind protection that I wear when it is below freezing. Still works amazing.
dieselgate · 3 years ago
Any fleece under a wind breaker/shell is pretty simple warmth for most conditions
blahedo · 3 years ago
I've known this one for years and years but it always surprises a few of my students (who come from warmer climates) when I mention it:

The scarf goes on the inside of the coat.

If you put the scarf on the outside, like you think you've seen in TV and movies, it's just decoration. Put it on the inside and it's an insulation layer and it blocks the cold air from blowing down your front. Absolutely game-changing. (Also, have a good coat, but that one seems more obvious to people.)

dghughes · 3 years ago
As a Canadian my tips are:

At my local college there are a lot of people from the Bahamas. They often wear hoodies and sandals with socks in the winter! It can get to -20C here and hoodies just won't cut it and sandals with socks could very quickly mean frost bite.

Yes scarfs are great since necks are a prime spot to loose heat during winter. A scarf or even a hood both together are even better. Long coats too none of these waits level ones get a coat at least past your waist preferably past your butt.

Layers are important more for temperature control. Even a hoodies and some sweaters can be warm if you have enough and one outside with wind protection.

Boots not sneakers to keep warm and the grip. So many people wear sneakers all winter now it blows me away. They're slippery, cold, and they probably cost more than winter boots these days.

phyzome · 3 years ago
That makes sense, sort of like a gasket. But for biking, I wear it on the outside so I can keep it over my mouth, allowing me to retain some warmth in my breath.
scohesc · 3 years ago
I found out if I tie the scarf around my face with the knot at the back of my neck, so the scarf covers the front of my face (mouth/nose/part of ears) and the loose ends loop around and get tucked between my jacket and my chest - I've been infinitely warmer since!

Hollywood doesn't know what winter is :P

Doxin · 3 years ago
Similarly: make sure either your coat or your gloves keep the wind from blowing up your sleeves. Coats without cuffs are awful unless worn with gloves that fit over the coat sleeves.
wruza · 3 years ago
Wait, some people wear scarfs outside unironically?
mabbo · 3 years ago
I don't like wearing big layers of clothing. I like being in a very light t-shirt.

I'm happy to pay the extra cost to heat the room I'm in with a space heater in the winter time.

dfxm12 · 3 years ago
it's a big reduction in oil and wood consumption for home heat

I'm happy to pay the extra cost

As an aside, we've got the externalities of climate change all wrong. Oil is a non renewable resource. We can't just give the planet a bunch of money and have it produce more oil for us to burn when we're uncomfortable. This cost is not really borne by you; it'll be borne by future generations.

coldpie · 3 years ago
I'm not trying to change your mind, just offer my perspective. I felt the same way. But after a couple of months of just putting up with it, I found I got used to it, and it saves some money & spends less fuel. Now I wear sweaters around the house all the time and it doesn't bother me anymore.
beerandt · 3 years ago
I'm the same way, but wool really is an awesome fabric for clothes wrt to temp regulation.

My favorite t-shirt is now a lightweight filson 100% wool shirt that is just as comfortable by itself at 80 deg as it is under a button up shirt at 30 deg.

And doesn't get cold when wet like cotton does.

It really does fit the "life changing" topic if you've never tried it.

gambiting · 3 years ago
Yeah so I was like that, until the energy prices absolutely exploded here in UK. I realized that if we go like this we'll pay £600/month just in energy costs, and that's as much as our mortgage payment - and frankly that's insane. I turned our thermostat down, grumbled and put on a jumper and wooly trousers - that alone literally halved our bill to £300/month - still insane(considering last year we were paying £100/month even in winter with heating being on pretty much all the time), but managable.
phyzome · 3 years ago
I like eating chocolate and sleeping all day, but I also have responsibilities. One of my responsibilities is to not be wasteful. So I put on a sweater.

(But if you've got some kind of super-insulated house, then never mind.)

mrguyorama · 3 years ago
You can still do this efficiently, for example my house thermostat is set to 65ish and I use a tiny space heater at half power (700ish watts) to have a small but nice warm corner without breaking the bank, probably.
eadmund · 3 years ago
I like going outside. I must go outside to walk my dog, get my mail and go to church — all of which are outside. I like shopping for groceries and eating out, which means that I must move from my car to the building. Given that I am going to be outdoors, it sure as heck makes sense to dress for the season and the weather.

Plus, y’know, winter clothes are the best clothes. Tweeds, woolens, gloves, coats, scarves, hats: all these are great!

I was amazed to find out that even in this air conditioned age we spend far more heating buildings than air conditioning them (four times as much, according to the first Google hit I just found). That means that it makes a lot more sense to dress warmly in the winter than lightly in the summer.

therealdrag0 · 3 years ago
For me the game changer was flannel. I never knew it was different than plaid until this year. Turns out it’s sufficiently warm and way more comfortable than heavier layers like hoodies because of how light it is.
h2odragon · 3 years ago
I sweat a lot (medical problems), and have no body fat; so keeping warm is a real challenge. I can't wear much clothing.

"radiant IR" (red glowing elements) type heaters are wonderful tools for heating the body instead of the air.

armchairhacker · 3 years ago
me too, also sometimes i can’t seem to heat up in layers. So I drink hot tea instead
triceratops · 3 years ago
That's still better than keeping the whole house at 75F all winter.
danjoredd · 3 years ago
That reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes comic. Coincidentally, this was also how I was raised:

https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1986/12/30/

tashoecraft · 3 years ago
Electrically heated clothing is now becoming readily available, and I think it could have a big impact on home heating if people would come around to it. I'm able to keep my office much colder, but wear a heated vest. Why heat the whole room when I'm the only thing that wants to be warm in it? If the clothing was all integrated, in theory I could be kept at my ideal temperature at a nominal electricity cost.
theGnuMe · 3 years ago
Keeping my hands warm is a bigger problem.. especially when having to type on the computer..
scythe · 3 years ago
Electrically heated clothing is a terrible idea. Comfortable for three years, then one day it just kills you. There's a reason that every power cable says things like "do not crush", but who's going to rigorously avoid putting their body weight on their shirt?
balfirevic · 3 years ago
Funny, it's only after moving away from my parents and going to college that I learned that you can heat your home so that it's comfortable. No need to dread such things as entering the cold bed at night, leaving the warm bed in the morning or sitting on the cold toilet seat.

I wish floor heating was more widespread where I live.

ROTMetro · 3 years ago
In floor heating with a geothermal heat pump = winning :) The upfront cost is a killer but quality of life wise afterwards oh man. Zero cold spots and unlimited hot water as a bonus side effect. Especially amazing when you live in the mountains.
mixmastamyk · 3 years ago
Electric blanket, hot water bottle, robe, soft toilet seat, etc... 1000x more efficient.
seanmcdirmid · 3 years ago
An extreme version of this: my mother in law lives in southern china where they don't get indoor heating by default (and the buildings are poorly insulated and aren't designed to be insulated, so adding it yourself isn't very feasible), so we are all bundled up the entire time we spend there in the winter, and everyone else is to, including the clerks are the department store and so on. The coldest 5C of my life :).

That's what happens when central planning makes the above observation.

com2kid · 3 years ago
This completely fails for me. I will end up with freezing cold hands and a warm body. Put me in a 65f room and after an hour of being idle my hands will start to go numb from the cold.
Broken_Hippo · 3 years ago
Have you seen a doctor about this just to make sure you don't have circulation issues?

Alternatively, keep some fingerless gloves around - or learn to knit/crochet/sew and make some (they aren't all that complicated for something basic). For around the house, you could honestly convert some socks if you aren't worried about how they might look. I'd get some of the no-fray glue they sell at craft stores if you go this route. These are great when you are idle.

eadmund · 3 years ago
Have you tried wristers? They’re basically tubes for your upper hand, wrist and lower forearm, with a little slit for your thumb. By keeping the blood at the wrist warm they keep your hands much warmer than they’d otherwise be, while letting you retain full freedom of motion for your fingers. They’re even better than fingerless gloves in that regard.
nexus2045 · 3 years ago
Got a small heater (size of a small PC speaker) for 20 bucks on Amazon, most effective purchase I’ve made in recent memory, super effective for cold fingers and doesn’t even need to be on all the time
hgsgm · 3 years ago
wolf gloves / thumbhole shirts, and of you are idle you can tuck hands under a blanket or chest pockets.
prometheus76 · 3 years ago
Another thing that can really help with this is a hot water bottle. You can put it on your lap, or under your feet and it really helps you keep warm if you are sitting for long periods of time. Helps if you put a small blanket over your lap as well. Usually lasts for a couple of hours before you need to refresh the water in the bottle.
gvurrdon · 3 years ago
I just received as a gift a hand-made harness for attaching a hot water bottle to one's chest or back. It is rather effective.

https://pothies.co.uk/hotwater-bottle-carrier-from-pothies/

hgsgm · 3 years ago
For the HN crowd: point your computer exhaust fan at your fingers or feet.
lexh · 3 years ago
This just came across my desk this morning, it discusses the benefits of hot water bottles as an alternative means of keeping warm.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2022/01/the-revenge-of-the-h...

(HN discussion from 2022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30023681)

InCityDreams · 3 years ago
Between your thighs...max blood flow and contact area.
b0sk · 3 years ago
The issue is it doesn't work for people who tend to sweat easily.
q845712 · 3 years ago
I'm one of the sweatiest people I've ever met. I've slowly gotten better at layering and how to use clothes for different situations, but I agree it's a big factor and there's some unwinnable combinations.

For instance, I've finally learned to embrace "long-john" style long underwear under my pants, but it's only possible because I'm working from home. They are amazing layers for warmth, but unlike additional shirts, hoodies, jackets, scarves, hats, long underwear can't be casually removed. You have to take off your shoes and your pants! So if (when) I was going into an office, I always made the choice to have cold legs during the commute but comfortable legs all day. Now I can wear them in the morning, take them off if the day warms up, and put them back on whenever the temp. drops again.

But overall I'll echo a few comments in here that some of the more expensive gear, even as base layers, really is better technology. And getting to know my body and my situational habits, it's been possible to figure out layering clothing that worked for me, but only because I was working in tech and felt like I had enough money to get it wrong a couple times... If I were still living on a student or even "average" budget, I would've been much shyer about trying some new $30 shirt just to see if it agreed with me.

Broken_Hippo · 3 years ago
That isn't true at all.

You simply need layers and good enough deodorant. A bit of experience helps as well - you learn how warm to keep your base layer after some time. If you sweat in non-standard places (like under breasts), spray deodorant might be your friend.

I personally deal with this because of hormones - I'm a female in my mid-40s, so I get to have hot flashes and night sweats during part of my cycle right now.

mixmastamyk · 3 years ago
I have a jacket that has zippers under the armpits. :-)
gwbas1c · 3 years ago
That's usually true...

But for a few years I lived in a very well insulated (smallish) apartment in a moderate climate. When it would get cold, I would turn the heat on. My bill would go up by a few dollars.

Then, I changed jobs and started working in a colder building. I spent more on warm clothes than I usually spent on heat! (And I had baseboard resistive heating, and I payed extra for wind power.)

nicbou · 3 years ago
Yep. Took me over 20 years, but I got there eventually.

A sweater and warm socks are game changers, as is a warm winter jacket and a good scarf. Add some tea and candles and the winter isn't half bad anymore. It's much easier to get through the cold months if you don't dread being outside.

btdmaster · 3 years ago
See also this article from "Mr. Electricity". [1]

[1] https://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/heating.html

fHr · 3 years ago
First thing I bought from my first salary was some socks, a comfy thick hoodie and pants. Best investment of my life after going years in broke ass student dime secondhand ancient weared clothing, especially now where we try to save energy and office is not 5 degrees overheated anymore. Everyone complains about being cold and I'm just warm.
petemir · 3 years ago
This is what I hate so far from Switzerland: buildings keep centralized heating at high levels. Even if I set my radiator to the lowest levels, I am still comfortable walking around in shorts and T-shirts in the middle of the winter. And obviously, everyone has to pay for this kind of heating...
ozim · 3 years ago
I think one problem is managing moisture not to get mold at home.

So most likely you still need to keep heating on but it might not need to be super high - just enough to have convection from heater moving air at home and having some ventilation letting in a bit of outside air in and warm one getting moisture out.

jeremy_wiebe · 3 years ago
Slippers have been a game changer for staying warm. We live in a concrete apartment building and the floors are always cold in the winter. Insulating my feet is by far the easiest way to stay warm without heating the entire house to a "short sleeves and shorts" comfortable temp.
moffkalast · 3 years ago
Plus your houseplants will thank you... when you die and meet them in the afterlife.
SergeAx · 3 years ago
I see here a number of comments about turning heating down as a way to live more "green" lifestyle. I see it as a corporate brainwashing and guilt shift getting into people's heads.

I just moved and now renting a place with electric water heater with pump moving that heated water around via radiators. It is quite large apartment with shitty, to be honest, insulation. The difference between "I put several layers of clothes on" and "I am wearing a t-shirt" is about 600 kWh per month. The same amount of energy is needed to prodice 30 kg of aluminium or run a single rack in a datacenter for just 2 days.

Never in your life your energy consumption can be compared with industrial usage. Likewise, never in you life your water consuption can reach a visible fraction of agricultural irrigation. Stop listening to coprorate PR.

SamPatt · 3 years ago
I understand your sentiment but your examples still sound like a lot of energy.

If every home ran a server rack for two days a month, or produced 30kg of aluminum, that would obviously add up extremely quickly.

koonsolo · 3 years ago
I have a problem with my hands. They are always cold when working on the computer.
dflock · 3 years ago
Heated desk pads are a thing, they will fix this issue.
trashface · 3 years ago
I agree for most people this works, but people with circulatory disorders such as Reynauds may still find that their hands and feet and even nose are freezing. Only fix for that is warm ambient air.
gompertz · 3 years ago
I would love to do this except it's usually my hands that are coldest, and I need them out to type on keyboard majority of time. Thus I have a space heater in my office.
RobertRoberts · 3 years ago
Add moisture to the air also as it conducts heat better and the same temperature will "feel" warmer. (especially important in some climates more than others)
jessekv · 3 years ago
Unless your air temperature is higher than your body temperature (37 deg C), won't higher humidity mean more of your heat is lost? This is why we call desert climates 'a dry heat' or 'a dry cold' in winter. Conversely, a 'damp cold' might not be that low a temperature, but you really feel it.
peteradio · 3 years ago
Sorry this is backwards isn't it? In air temperature of lets say 60*F the conduction would be away from your body into the air, wouldn't you want to reduce the conduction? I can say that we used to humidify our winter air throughout the house but it made it feel so much colder. Now we humidify our sleeping air only.
hkpack · 3 years ago
This is probably a bad advice - As it simultaneously makes cold air feel colder.

Also, I'm not sure if there is an easy way to actually increase humidity without reducing the temperature. From my experience, increasing humidity while keeping the overall temperature at the same time requires additional energy.

Also, less humid air may allow you to actually wear less cloths as it is more difficult for the air to get energy off your body.

odiroot · 3 years ago
Perfect recipe for growing mold :)
number6 · 3 years ago
Is this the reason for infusions in sauna?
mtlynch · 3 years ago
I didn't know that. Good tip!
Yaa101 · 3 years ago
Unless you live in a super dry area you are causing your house to grow substantial mould and make you live shorter by years or decades.

Congratulations...

ashz8888 · 3 years ago
I put some heating pads in socks, gloves, and sometimes jackets, which I found to work better and much more energy efficient.
james_pm · 3 years ago
"Staying warm" being the key! Your body generates plenty of heat. The idea is to trap it.
rednerrus · 3 years ago
A cashmere sweater is the best investment you'll every make.
balaji1 · 3 years ago
austerity
balaji1 · 3 years ago
I realize I was intending to reply to another comment but replied to the OP... I can't find the other comment now. Anyway...
xsmasher · 3 years ago
Efficiency.
lannisterstark · 3 years ago
I have a chihuahua. I'm willing to accept the slightly higher cost in winters for her being comfy.
orange_joe · 3 years ago
My mom has 2 short hair chihuahuas (7-8lbs) and they wear sweaters 6 months a year. Just like the rest of us!
rjmill · 3 years ago
When my then-gf/now-wife and I first moved in together, I got really mad at her because she kept "hiding" my stuff when I left it out for more than a day. I couldn't find anything!

At some point, I yelled, "It's like you don't even want to see any of my things when I'm not using them!" Then I stopped for a second. For the first time in my life, it made sense.

The whole point of putting things away is to hide them! No one wants to look at your crap when you're not using it.

Waterluvian · 3 years ago
My wife and I have a rule, "everything needs to have a home." Because if it doesn't have a home, it becomes clutter, and after enough clutter, it finds a home... usually a sub-optimal one, like a junk drawer.

The kids (4 and 5) have adapted to this wonderfully. It really helps them. It makes cleanup a trivial task because everything is known to belong somewhere specific.

Related to this: the recognition that everything is harder in a messy home. If you have stuff everywhere, you are paying a small tax any time you want to find or do something. Even cluttering your cupboards and drawers means you're tediously sifting through too much stuff or constantly worried about knocking something over while getting something else out. It's been especially good to avoid the dance of removing items to get the items underneath, then putting them back.

Finally: the lesson that when you keep stuff, you are paying a "tax" on keeping it. Throw away stuff you don't think you'll ever need again. It's cheaper to re-buy 1 or 2 things than to keep 100 of them for years and years. That storage space could be better used.

Bonus: If everything has a home, and you run out of homes, you quickly recognize that you have too much stuff and it might be time to make trade-offs. This puts an upper bound on the amount of stuff in our home.

Note that this could all easily sound super hardcore but it's not. It's just a general guide we have. We aren't forcing our kids to throw excess toys away and we're not writing a book about it. A flexible tool to guide behaviour, not enforce it.

retrac · 3 years ago
In my 20s I had a roommate and we kept having arguments with use of space. I would interpret his leaving new purchases just wherever as laziness or not caring. I'd hand it to him, and tell him to put it away, and it'd be left somewhere else randomly.

I eventually realised he bought things without thinking about where to put them, when he got home with it. So it just sort of would get abandoned wherever. There was no assigned "away" for him, and I was assuming there was. Baffling, but at least it wasn't passive-aggressive like I had thought. Some of my habits eventually wore off on him, thankfully.

A related theme is: I don't have anywhere to put this even after thinking about it -- then you probably have too much stuff!

gofreddygo · 3 years ago
> ... you run out of homes, ... you have too much stuff ... puts an upper bound on the amount of stuff in our home.

Conversation from last weekend -

"I want those brown shoes. They're so nice and fit like they're made for me"

"You're shoes are overflowing your side, into mine and now into the corridor. I think you have too many."

"I don't have any that are like boots. I want brown ones for the city.I'll wear to my $event"

"You got yellow ones last month. They look like boots"

"They're for a hike. These are for the city. I don't like being told about my shoes."

And then there were more shoes.

Same night -

"I need to donate my old clothes"

snarf21 · 3 years ago
I think a lot of people would be a lot happier in life if they got rid of half their crap. Then in 6 months get rid of half of what is left. It is a hard battle but I keep trying to get rid of more and more stuff and it is so nice to walk into a storage shed that is more and more empty. Everything remaining is needed and there is no hunting or looking for things as everything is easily accessible.
flycaliguy · 3 years ago
We call this the OHIO system. Only Hold It Once. Don’t set things down in random spots, pick it up and it goes where it belongs.
nonethewiser · 3 years ago
I agree with this 100% but I struggle with finding homes for everything. I feel like I need more furniture with drawers or cupboards. It's creating the storage space that I struggle with.
sublinear · 3 years ago
> Note that this could all easily sound super hardcore but it's not. It's just a general guide we have. We aren't forcing our kids to throw excess toys away and we're not writing a book about it. A flexible tool to guide behaviour, not enforce it.

I was having a hard time thinking about what I'm doing wrong, but I think this is close enough. I'm so inspired to steal some variant of this disclaimer especially this part: "We aren't forcing x to do y and we're not writing a book about it."

pkulak · 3 years ago
I just bought a used laptop on impulse last week, and it still has no home. It's driving me nuts. It's sitting next to me right now. And because it's pre-usb-c, the charger needs a home too. I have about 30 large bins in the garage for things without homes, and that may be its fate, unfortunately.
wintogreen74 · 3 years ago
It's also going to vary greatly based on the individual. Some people have homes that look like ocean going ships, with nothing that's not permanently attached or stowed neatly away. Others have shit everywhere. Both scenarios are fine if you're comfortable with living that way.
JTbane · 3 years ago
If I followed this rule I wouldn't own a thing, the perks of living in a small room.
NoPicklez · 3 years ago
My housemates (a couple) have this problem. Since others having moved out, they seem to have expanded to fill any available space in the house.

They take up more cupboard and bench space around the house then the additional 2 people did before.

Makes it challenging in a house to find space when you need it, if it's already filled simply because there was a free space.

ktc4444 · 3 years ago
If anyone does want to read a book about it, I'm listening to "Decluttering at the speed of life" and it hits this concept pretty well. Really helped me shift my mindset.
criddell · 3 years ago
So you don’t have a junk drawer? We have a junk drawer and it is the home for packing tape, scissors, flashlight, batteries, etc…
RagnarD · 3 years ago
"everything needs to have a home."

This, absolutely.

amelius · 3 years ago
> everything needs to have a home

Does it count if everything goes into one big box?

Or if I just declare the living room as the home for my stuff?

SpeedilyDamage · 3 years ago
Heh, reading this I can’t help but think of how different the perception of what your kids are feeling is vs what they’re actually feeling.

“This is great for the kids!” Maybe! Or, equally plausibly it’s annoying, but they don’t tell you.

k1t · 3 years ago
DontchaKnowit · 3 years ago
This is so absolutely hilarious to me because this is 100% something I'd do. I had a friend come over once and then he came over again a week later and all of my kitchen cabinet doors were open and in the exact same position as they had been a week prior. He was like "dude did you not shut your cabinet doors? Wtf"

Its just not even on my radar

linsomniac · 3 years ago
Open cabinet doors drive me crazy because they look like a concussion waiting to happen.
tmm · 3 years ago
The number of people on this thread who leave cabinets open (and apparently come families of cabinet-door-openers) is astounding to me. Do you all leave toilet seats up too? What about the refrigerator? Car doors? Dresser drawers? Do you not push your chair in when you get up from the table? Do you at least return shopping carts?

I am not an organized person, I see a horizontal surface and I put stuff on it. But leaving doors open? I don’t think I even take my hand off the cabinet door when I open it. One hand for the door, one for the thing I’m getting.

The only door I leave open is the washing machine, so it can dry out. It gets closed the next time I’m in the laundry room though.

j45 · 3 years ago
I know it’s not for everyone.. this is solvable by putting your cabinets on a soft closing track installed at a slight angle to help cabinets easily close on its own. Cabinet doors also have some tweaks that can be done. I get it’s a for a habit but if anyone has a problem with remembering it’s sometimes easier to let the natural motion of the door build some muscle memory.

My better half has very few things that catch my attention in a less than positive way, one is not turning off the lights. It’s like a museum tour to learn what has been visited that day.

They have had the lights turned off for them their whole life despite being super independent otherwise. So I just used it as an excuse to install some Caseta wifi light switches and suddenly the lights were turned off before bed because it was remembered but too much work to do once in bed. But because the Apple Watch had an extension app it was easy enough to do. It doesn’t mean everything should be automated but it was one that kept a small thing into a fun and easy going solve. It made it easier to consider motorized blinds due.

robofanatic · 3 years ago
on a similar note. about a decade ago, I was sharing apartment with a good friend. It was 2 bed/1.5 bath apartment. He had a bad habit of leaving the shower-tub knob on 'shower' after he's done. I was a late person so usually ended up showering last. My bad habit was that I didn't pay attention to the knob before starting the shower. For first week every single day I got a blast of freezing water on my face, until one day I confronted him! obviously that didn't work. So one day I woke up early and did the same thing to him. From that day our habits changed. I always check the shower knob before turning it on.
rjmill · 3 years ago
Exactly! You don't even see the mess.

It's funny you mention the cabinets. My wife and I can tell whenever my siblings have been over: they're all incorrigible cabinet goblins.

I still leave cabinets open, but it's typically because I'm using it as a reminder to return whatever I had taken from the cabinet. Of course, my Cabinet Sight still has a ways to go, so the thing doesn't get returned until I actually notice the open cabinet the next day.

psychomugs · 3 years ago
I had a roommate who did this every time they went to the kitchen, like a cupboard- and cabinet-opening spectre.
paxys · 3 years ago
Open cabinets are in vogue now. Keep the doors open and you're weird. Remove them altogether and you're stylish.
dwighttk · 3 years ago
I hate cabinet doors… only time I think of them one just almost punctured my skull
kuhewa · 3 years ago
An illuminating experience for me was a housemate and a fairly sharp one at that who wondered if we would get visited by ghosts at night because cabinet doors were always open in the kitchen in the morning. It didn't occur to her that the extremely more likely scenario was that I would scavenge around after she went to sleep and never shut doors.
BurningFrog · 3 years ago
The solution is to not have any doors.
scotty79 · 3 years ago
I have no idea why some people have this urge to hide all things.

When I hide things I just forget that I have half of them almost immediately. Let alone remembering where I have them.

blahedo · 3 years ago
YES

I can have things that get "put away" i.e. in a container/cabinet/drawer/room IF that container will be something that I open and access at least every other day. Otherwise, things that get put away out of sight are GONE until I accidentally stumble across them years later.

Limited exception: if there is a tool or device or something that is so uniquely suited for a task that when presented with a task where it would be useful I will immediately think of the tool—and thus remember that I have it—I can safely store it away, as long as the place I'll put it is the first place that I'd look for it.

sangnoir · 3 years ago
You need to have a system; so it's not exactly "remembering" where you put things, but deducing where an items ought to be and going there to find it. It's similar to people who put all files on the desktop vs organizing files into a hierarchy of folders.
gpderetta · 3 years ago
There is "putting things back where they belong so you they don't clutter and you know where they are next time you need them" and "put things out of the way in a random place so that they are effectively lost".

Then there is me looking for something for half an hour or more then finally finding it exactly where it was supposed to be.

moffkalast · 3 years ago
Well there are other benefits like dust and cat protection. Having transparent cabinet doors and drawers would make sense though.
dyingkneepad · 3 years ago
Maybe that's just a sign you have a lot of stuff you don't even need in the first place?
ilyt · 3 years ago
Well, it is "looks neat" vs "there is space that is free, why not use it for stuff that you use often?"

Some people have mental disease that makes them annoyed where the flat surfaces are covered with immediately useful and easily accessible stuff and act up. "Oh look at those flat surfaces that don't get used for anything useful 99% of the time, how neat and tidy"

Some other kind of people have different disease of just leavin shit lying around for months and never use it, where it should be put back in storage (or bin) weeks ago already. "Don't touch my stuff, if you move it I won't remember where it is!" (then promptly forgets and wastes time searching thru clutter anyway.

Sane compromise is somewhere in the middle. Don't constantly hide the favourite knife every fucking day, ain't nobody got time for that shit. But probably clean it so the next time you use it you won't waste time on that. Cutting board can stay out, you use it every day, multiple times anyway.

jmcmaster · 3 years ago
ADHD weaker object permanence means that lots of people need to see their stuff to keep it in mind. “Hiding stuff” is problematic (and so is clutter).
CipherThrowaway · 3 years ago
Non-ADHD weaker clutter tolerance means that lots of people need to hide stuff to keep it from bothering them.

Clutter intolerance can have a profound impact on daily life for sufferers. Many will engage in maladaptive coping strategies such as ritualistic tidying and avoiding cluttered rooms or spaces. Whether tolerance can be improved through therapy is an area of active research. Unfortunately, clutter intolerance is thought to be neurobiological.

ilyt · 3 years ago
The problem is that someone else does it. If I put a thing away and find a spot for it I will remember. But if someone else without my hierarchy for stuff does it it will inevitably land in a place I will not even think to search in the first place.
cja · 3 years ago
Hiding the belongings of someone with ADHD is disabling them. Work with them, not against them.
papandada · 3 years ago
I have this, though it most often shows up as "to-do impermanence" -- I have to keep tasks very visible or they disappear. Come to think of it, I'm a bit like the guy in Memento, I even need to remind myself of the whole history and motivation for a task every time I come to it.
barking_biscuit · 3 years ago
Can confirm. My wife still "hides" my stuff all the time, but she's gotten better at leaving it alone, and some stuff in the bathroom I had to very explicitly spell out that it needs to be exactly where it is and it needs to always be visible. We definitely compromise a lot, but I'm glad she tries to work with me on it.
odiroot · 3 years ago
No, it's the opposite. Things placed randomly and visibly just add to the mental overhead. They easily distract.
emsixteen · 3 years ago
This is the issue for me.
everyone · 3 years ago
I totally disagree. If you use something fairly regularly then leave it out in the spot where it is used all the time.. What harm does something merely being visible do? .. Hiding it away does harm as 1. You will waste time putting it away and retrieving it every time you use it 2. there's the extra mental load of remembering where it goes 3. you may forget where it is.

This reminds me of the difference between 'tidy' and 'organised' .. They are independent properties and an area may be very tidy while being very disorganized and vice versa.. Eg. typical thing where if there is a pile of random crap on a table someone will dump it all into a drawer. The area is now more 'tidy' but also more disorganized.

Tidiness is superficial, whereas being organized has practical benefits.

xp84 · 3 years ago
> Hiding it away does harm as 1. You will waste time putting it away and retrieving it every time you use it

Trust me, I suck at tidying and have a cluttered mess, so I'm not being Marie Kondo here.

Your logic works but only so far. If you put nothing "away" all your "working surfaces" will eventually be covered with crap -- except of course it's not crap, it's your things that you intended to keep easily at hand. It'll make it so that it's a chore to find things and also a chore to have a useful space to actually DO anything. Sure, leave out a set of favorite often-used stuff, like say, bread on the counter instead of away in a pantry, your most-worn shoes on the floor by the door, whatever. But curating that set of stuff that is important enough to be "just left out" is important, and it's a REAL challenge for me!!

scythe · 3 years ago
>The whole point of putting things away is to hide them! No one wants to look at your crap when you're not using it.

Well, there is another reason. When your room has a consistent default state, it's easier to look around the room and notice anything that is unusual. It makes the room into a sort of sensor. When it is always changing states — things here one day, there another — any changes can be missed. Subconsciously, we usually feel calmer when we know what's going on around us, which is facilitated by an orderly living/working environment.

xp84 · 3 years ago
This is so wise. My house is hopelessly cluttered. When I need to find, say, my wallet before I leave, it can be a frustrating episode if I haven't put it in its canonical home.

Yet compare that to if I'm staying in a hotel. I just look around on the 5 surfaces -- nightstand, dresser, desk, bathroom counter, bingo, of course it was in one of those places and it sticks out obviously. 10 seconds max.

Devil's in the details of course, and I haven't yet been able to declutter, but I intuitively know you're right.

GoToRO · 3 years ago
One way this was said by one lady in a tv show was to not use your home as storage. By home she meant hallways, on top of furniture and so on. It makes your home look more like a storage unit and less like a house.

It helped me to start putting things away in drawers and so on, but also to think about how often I use them, or if I still need them.

The tv show was about "proffesional organizers".

ilyt · 3 years ago
> on top of furniture and so on

Pfff, fancy posh TV lady with her ACTUAL DEDICATED STORAGE SPACE in SPACIOUS HOME.

scotty79 · 3 years ago
Living is what you do between kitchen, bed, desk and bath and front door. The rest is literally the storage unit.
FujiApple · 3 years ago
You know you’re in a long term relationship when your better half starts throwing away your stuff without asking.
throwaway744678 · 3 years ago
Oh, man.

Our home has a two-stage "recycle bin" policy, though: some of my stuff "gets moved" to a random box in the cellar; if I don't ask for it for a few months, it gets "donated". You know.

dougmwne · 3 years ago
Oof, no please ask. 15 years in and manners still matter.
agilob · 3 years ago
but I might need this cable in 10 years!! fast forward 5 years, I needed a VGA cable and it was nowhere to be found
balfirevic · 3 years ago
That's a good way to make me strongly reconsider being in that relationship.
rjh29 · 3 years ago
It wouldn't be acceptable to me in any length of relationship. Different strokes for different folks.
Geloto · 3 years ago
What?

Never.

I never would do that and my wife never did this.

teucris · 3 years ago
I will caveat this with something I learned from “How to Keep House While Drowning” - an incredible book for overwhelmed parents, neurodivergent people, and those going through depression:

Make your home work for you, don’t work for your home.

If that means the best way for you to live your life is to leave things out so you can find them more easily, then do that. Chances are though that having a “home” for everything (mentioned in other comments) is going to work better for you. It’s a process of learning and iteration.

watwut · 3 years ago
Tho, I do not mind seeing partners stuff and like to have mine own in sight. It makes me more active - seeing that stuff make me want to interact with it. When I put books and crafting things somewhere I do not see, that project effectively died.
rjh29 · 3 years ago
Absolutely, that's basic human psychology. If you want to practice guitar, put the guitar on a stand near your desk/couch where you can see it. Hiding it away just for the sake of 'tidiness' defeats the point.
dayvid · 3 years ago
I literally bought a lockbox for this reason, because she would things to a different place every time.

She freaked out when I told her, but it came with two keys and I gave her one so she doesn't think I'm hiding anything from her.

euroderf · 3 years ago
"Out of sight, out of mind."

Ideally I'd have ceiling-to-floor shelves EVERYWHERE.

GTD says your mind is not so much storing to-do's as for processing them. Likewise, the contents of spaces. Memorizing contents is unnecessary mind clutter.

tootie · 3 years ago
I used to complain to my mom that I left stuff on the floor on purpose because I could find it faster. 30 years later my daughter said the same thing to me and I just nodded and shut her door.
gpderetta · 3 years ago
I mean, that's obviously LRU caching.
j45 · 3 years ago
This is true, and as a balance ..except when their and what they like to look at (which might be nothing) is still out.

If you’re in the bottom drawers, less closet space, back of the fridge, at the bottom of the pile, the the more awkward storage space, fewer drawers, appliances that like to be seen but not used, or more of your stuff is in storage it might not entirely be you.

At the same time it’s valuable to learn to build shared storage solutions jointly to let both (and little ones) put the items most used, important or at hand is a critical skill to develop together, early on.

Otherwise deferral or indifference can be quite tough when one of you might have a change of heart.

There are many thinna that happen in life where you will literally not remember to do.something (medication, etc) if it’s not sitting out on the counter.

locallost · 3 years ago
I don't think it's about not wanting to look at things - my wife once moved something from me from the bathroom above the sink to a shelf, and I got pissed I couldn't find it. She said it was too much stuff there. I then went there and counted 17 things that belonged to her, and 2 that belonged to me, 1 of which was apparently too much.

In my experience women do this a lot. I don't know if it's some kind of an evolutionary thing. On the one hand that it was something women traditionally did and can't let go, on the other that it is/was a way to make themselves more important. You become very important when somebody needs you all the time to tell them where things are.

JohnAaronNelson · 3 years ago
Maybe your anecdotes don’t define the evolutionary history of women?
timeon · 3 years ago
I have this experience too. But I think it is more general: people are more critical of others then themselves.
clint · 3 years ago
Everything having a home is good, but I like to still be able to "see" things when they are put away. For example, throwing things into a drawer where other things can obscure other things is bad, because I will forget the things that are on the bottom. I make sure all my socks are visible in my sock drawer by using an organizer that allows my rolled up socks to be stored vertically and I can't put other stuff on top of them.

Cabinets without doors, and shelves without doors are critical too. I'm not sure why but if I do not have regular visible sight of things, they may as well not exist and I will quickly forget that they are there, leading to all kinds of chaos.

satvikpendem · 3 years ago
There is a book I read recently called Goodbye, Things. It's like a more interesting version of The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, as it talks more about the feeling of being a minimalist than TLCMTU does, which is more practical.

It talks about needing less space in general and being more free, simply by having fewer things, since things beget things; the more things you have, the more organizational containers you need, in turn creating yet more things and yet more space to store them in. Since then, I've tried to actively limit the amount of things and space they take up, since I hate clutter, but I hate organization as well.

sparks1970 · 3 years ago
A good book which addresses the perception that "possessions are a projection of my true self" but it lost me when the author describes limiting himself to a single towel to both dry himself out of the shower and to dry dishes...
dirtyid · 3 years ago
That's why I steer away from open shelves, everything gets chucked into their respective drawer to keep things tidy. Getting partner be onboard with drawer organization probably deadend if they're not into it, but most things need a convenient place to hide.

Also I firmly believe really nice drawer hardware, like soft close and good runners can encourage this behaviour by making operation enjoyable. Grew up with very satisfyingly click put to open drawers, in retrospect not as functional as direct pulling, but man that click conditioned me to want to tidy.

e40 · 3 years ago
There are common areas and then there are zones where people park stuff. I've tried to get my SO to put stuff I leave in public areas in one of my zones, rather than putting it somewhere I will never find it.

It's also a battle because of the clutter, 10% of it is mine, and I never move their stuff.

The problem comes in when there's something that could reasonably be trash (usually a box that I might need to return something) gets tossed. :(

EDIT: change "private zones" to "public zones"

nerdponx · 3 years ago
Think of it as hiding it from household dust.
kzrdude · 3 years ago
Yes, anything that's out gets grimy and dusty eventually.
coreyhn · 3 years ago
I’m a stickler for this as well, but at the same time it is easy to have the status quo and get used to not putting things away.
Enginerrrd · 3 years ago
I had a similar epiphany. I realized that I would leave things out in random piles as a reminder system. And more piles of things that I knew I SHOULD deal with, but didn't know HOW to deal with.

I realized also that this is a TERRIBLE reminder system. I started putting everything in OneNote and my calendar via the Getting Things Done Methodology, and I'm honestly upset that no one ever taught me such a system a long time ago. I've been told a million times to "use a planner", "write things down", "use a calendar", "use a notebook" etc. etc., but no one ever told me HOW to use those things. Getting Things Done is awesome because it told me almost exactly how to use that stuff, and the effect has been life-changing for me. My spaces have never been cleaner, and I've never been more effective in my life.

BrandoElFollito · 3 years ago
> The whole point of putting things away is to hide them!

I think that it is rather to have them all in one place, and that they do not take the place of other things or are in your way.

The fact that they are hidden is because they are behind a door, probably to avoid that catching dust.

brailsafe · 3 years ago
Shortly after moving in with my gf into a tiny space, I realized that beyond, but including your realization, sometimes they just like to move stuff around occasionally. I think my father's lack of realizing and accepting this is what's led him to ruin any living situation he's ever had, because he just can't give up a little control and share autonomy over a combined space.

I notice this in reverse as well, it's probably best when moving in with someone to get a new place and set expectations early.

actionablefiber · 3 years ago
It is nice to put away things - keeps down the mental clutter and keeps the area looking nice - but I have to say I viscerally disagree with the practice of moving other people's things without permission and without telling them the new location. It is bad communication and absolutely guaranteed to start a fight. Keeping each other up to date and setting common expectations on where things should "live" is important.
ChildOfChaos · 3 years ago
Oh this is me, I very much want anything that I don't need to see right now to be out of the way, which is why I hate the modern world, even UI interfaces and constant notification etc, everything that is not relevent right now, I want to hand for the times when i do want it, but also out of the way when i am doing something else.
seanmcdirmid · 3 years ago
I'm trying to convince my wife that this is the way to go, but she keeps yelling at me for hiding her stuff in the bathroom (I even bought drawer organizers!). I've taken a break from doing it, but it took me personally 40 years to figure it out, and she is a gen younger, so we have time.
dghughes · 3 years ago
My theory of how cupboard doors were invented is people had shelves but didn't want to see all their crap displayed in the open. Hiding equals neatness.

What was that HN article recently of Las Vegas and windows on buildings more of something causes distress and less is more soothing to a point.

peoplefromibiza · 3 years ago
it sounds funny, but I gotta tell you, the opposite is never true.

You can't hide their makeup that they are not using, the 10 bottles of shampoo with different colors and allegedly different properties, the 7 bottles of hair conditioner etc etc

So everyday I wake up to something like this, but worse

https://i0.wp.com/blog.cliomakeup.com/wp-content/uploads/201...

Lucky us we have two bathrooms, so we can keep one tidy, right?

WRONG!

The second bathroom is for the exclusive use of our 2 cats.

Could I have a say about it?

Of course not.

Is it logical?

Absolutely not.

People don't want to see other people's crap, but are more than happy to live surrounded by their own.

If there's a paradise, many people deserve it just for going through all of this, every day.

derbOac · 3 years ago
For me at least the bigger point of putting things away is actually to find them quicker later.
asah · 3 years ago
Our place has a ton of different storage locations... we solved it with a spreadsheet.
balderdash · 3 years ago
This seems like the solution is worse than the problem!
moffkalast · 3 years ago
When you need a WMS for your place it may be an indicator that you have too much stuff.
cynicalsecurity · 3 years ago
Also, never shout at your wife.
rjmill · 3 years ago
100% agree. If it makes you feel better, I didn't actually yell or raise my voice.

I chose the word "yelled" because it was the simplest way to imply the frustration/betrayal/hurt I was feeling at the time. In retrospect, I could have said, "cried out," and captured the emotion/action more accurately without sacrificing brevity. But that phrase didn't occur to me at the time.

Words are hard.

jongjong · 3 years ago
I disagree. I like to have all my possessions in clear view; that way, when I need them, I don't need to search for them.
jxramos · 3 years ago
yah there's a saying surrounding that I believe, cluttered space, cluttered mind. I think there's something to it, keeping a bunch of stuff in sleep mode in some back corner mental stack of your mind that gets subliminally refreshed each time you visually glance over strewn clutter.
progman32 · 3 years ago
For some, this is a feature. I need to keep my stuff out so everything gets at least a couple brain cycles every day. I work in a generalist shop though with many concurrent (and very different) projects so it's not for everyone. Never liked spreadsheets/ticketing systems for this. I keep separate files for each project but need to physically see the objects for it to work for my mind.

Part of the motivation is the minor discomfort of seeing so many projects open and set aside. For me the solution is to complete projects, not categorize and hide everything.

bradwood · 3 years ago
I still have this now. She's always hiding my shit from me. Deliberately to piss me off. /s
titzer · 3 years ago
Every item should have an agreed-upon place where it goes. Then if it is not out/can't find it, it's in its place. So if you both agree on that, then putting things away is NBD, and no one is hiding anything.
mmaunder · 3 years ago
Not my whole life but stuff I’ve discovered:

Realizing that sitting for 8 to 12 hours per day coding is catastrophic for my health.

Understanding the incredibly high and hidden cost of conflict and anger. Films romanticize fighting the good fight. Avoiding a fight (legal, arguments, etc) until you absolutely can’t is worth a lot.

Creativity and intellectual progress happen in a quiet relaxed and happy environment.

Leadership starts with humility.

Big companies signal unassailable leads and competence but tend to be wildly dysfunctional which makes them vulnerable.

Yoga fixes lifelong back pain that drugs, swimming obsessively, chiropractors and workouts could not fix.

Confronting death isn’t that scary, even for an atheist.

We don’t deserve dogs.

Everyone is the main character in their story, including you.

You can be good at just about anything you love doing but can’t be good at many things.

You can’t buy time but managing your time obsessively has its own cost.

Early mornings are a very special time because no one else is up and it is the quietest and most productive part of the day.

hyperjeff · 3 years ago
> Early mornings are a very special time because no one else is up and it is the quietest and most productive part of the day.

For the exact same reason, so also are very late nights (~1 to 5am).

roughly · 3 years ago
> We don’t deserve dogs.

I used to look at dogs and think that if any other sentient species came by, the things we'd done to an apex predator would be sufficient to mark our species for quarantine at best, but I was playing with a friend's dog the other day and it occurred to me that we've aggressively selected for the happiest, most loyal, friendliest critters we can find - that's what we want, that's what we want to be around*. The world's complicated and our actions in it don't always reflect us at our best, but there's something redemptive about our choice in companions.

(*Yes, some dogs are bred to be dicks, and some people are dicks, but most dogs are good dogs, and most people are, too.)

WA · 3 years ago
There are too many dogs.

In some countries, dog owners don’t give a shit and let their dogs poop everywhere (France for example).

Many dog owners can’t handle their dogs.

Dogs are scary for some people, especially children. Most dog owners don’t understand this and say "it’s a good dog, he doesn’t do anything" instead of doing the only sane thing: "you’re scared? I take the dog away".

It only takes one dick owner with a dick dog to instill fear in people (children) with significant and long-lasting consequences for their lives.

So yeah, some dogs are cute and whatnot, but unless you have a remote ranch or a huge property, and dogs can be dogs there, we actually need less dogs.

pjdkoch · 3 years ago
> Understanding the incredibly high and hidden cost of conflict and anger. Films romanticize fighting the good fight. Avoiding a fight (legal, arguments, etc) until you absolutely can’t is worth a lot.

This is known to be great project management advice _and_ terrible relationship advice.

For interpersonal relationships, signaling misalignment early, directly, openly, with a sympathetic and reconciling demeanor, has been the best choice for me. Can't find sources anymore, sorry.

For projects, I won't expend more effort than what I have to.

Where does the project work stop and the interpersonal work starts, that's a vague art that demands a bit of intuition.

scotty79 · 3 years ago
> Understanding the incredibly high and hidden cost of conflict and anger. Films romanticize fighting the good fight. Avoiding a fight (legal, arguments, etc) until you absolutely can’t is worth a lot.

That resonates strongly with me. It's better to just take the loss because entering a conflict because of it will cost more, even if you win, in almost all cases.

austinsharp · 3 years ago
renjimen · 3 years ago
I’ve found that it’s okay to sit for 8+ hours most days so long as I’m getting out of my seat every hour and going for a short walk or two every day. Yoga, even a 15 minute session once a week, helps a lot, as you say. Using a vertical mouse, large text and staring out the window frequently are the other healthy habits I stick to while working.
gassiss · 3 years ago
I agree with most of these. This one needs to be careful though

> Yoga fixes lifelong back pain that drugs, swimming obsessively, chiropractors and workouts could not fix.

I'm healing a back problem that Yoga would definitely just make it worse

lpapez · 3 years ago
I haven't tried yoga yet because I luckily realized other items before I needed yoga :) Agreed fully
plaguepilled · 3 years ago
Great list - thank you.
yamtaddle · 3 years ago
Not using an electric toothbrush. First time I used one it felt like I'd had a proper dental cleaning. An extremely half-assed effort with that kind of brush beats a thorough one with a manual brush. I thought they were a gimmick, but no, they're amazing.
Frost1x · 3 years ago
On a similar dental hygiene note, I was told I should brush before having breakfast, coffee etc. It always stood to reason to me that it makes more sense to just eat my first meal and drink, then brush, to keep a cleaner state of my teeth for longer but supposedly according to a few dentists I spoke with, the protection you get from the first brush is more significant than removing those first food particles.

Chances are you already have a lot bacteria in your mouth and once you eat your breakfast (which for many is sugary) they immediately eat and consume this and produce acid. So, brush before breakfast, supposedly.

hawk_ · 3 years ago
This can go wrong in either direction. If you brush your teeth and have milk shortly after, the fluoride binds to the calcium in milk and goes to your belly instead of staying with your teeth protecting them. On the other hand if you have orange juice or similar (acidic) and then brush your teeth, say bye to your tooth enamel.
oarfish · 3 years ago
I think it's both the bacteria thing – getting rid of them before they can start metablizing your food into stuff to harm your enamel – and the idea that directly following food intake, your mouth pH level will be out of homeostasis and enamel may be easier to erode at "non-native" pHs and one shouldn't brush directly after. I'm not sure where I got that from though.
jaimehrubiks · 3 years ago
If I brush before eating the food tastes bad
bobbylarrybobby · 3 years ago
I've heard that brushing right after eating is really bad for your teeth because just after you eat, the bacteria in your mouth start producing acid that, for lack of a better word, loosens the surface enamel in your teeth, and brushing in that state discards that enamel instead of letting it resettle after the acid washes away.

The solubility of enamel is insanely low so the effect should be minor at most, but still.

jarek83 · 3 years ago
Funny, all my dentists always urged me to do morning brush after breakfast. It seemed to correlate to "brush after each meal" thing.
born1989 · 3 years ago
Yes. Best talk on teeth hygiene and anatomy (in that order) I’ve heard - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/patricia-corby-d-d-s-i...
Georgelemental · 3 years ago
Seems to me like one should just not eat a sugary breakfast?
moffkalast · 3 years ago
Yeah if you feel like making your breakfast taste like garbage as the toothpaste blocks sweetness receptors.
algorias · 3 years ago
IIRC the reason for this is that antibodies are actually in your saliva, which moves around your mouth much less while you're sleeping. Thus, bacteria have a more favorable environment at night.
jjice · 3 years ago
I couldn't imagine consuming anything before brushing my teeth, but this is coming from a retainer wearer so I think that might have something to do with it.
oneoff786 · 3 years ago
The bacteria is one thing, but acidic foods are another. Brushing after citrus will destroy your teeth over time. Not sure about coffee.
high_byte · 3 years ago
brush before and have a good wash after as well
sergiosgc · 3 years ago
This, but for water jet flossing. Why did I muck around for decades with strings in my mouth? A water jet is a lot less effort and much much more efficient/effective.

P.S. If you never tried these gizmos, get a portable, battery powered one, so you can use it over the bathtub (or in the bathtub). They tend to soak everything around you.

hanniabu · 3 years ago
I never got used to water flossing, how do you know where to aim it while it's in your mouth? Are you literally dragging the tip across your gum line? I always had trouble getting the proper angle (perpendicular to teeth) and then when it comes to the front teeth it's impossible to do behind them because the tips don't have enough of an angle to them and you're also shooting water everywhere.
worthless-trash · 3 years ago
I saw these, but they felt a bit scammy, what model are you using ?
matwood · 3 years ago
Not just electric, but a SonicCare style brush. It's like leaving the dentist every time I brush.
imglorp · 3 years ago
This. It's not really an electric toothbrush but you get far cleaner than one. My dentist is insistent.

I've had the same base model for 10+ years going strong.

onlyrealcuzzo · 3 years ago
On the flip side, don't brush your gums too much with an electric toothbrush.

I destroyed my gums when my parents got me an electric toothbrush when I was 13 - and AFAIK - there's still not really any way to repair it.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong! Would make my day to be wrong.

browningstreet · 3 years ago
I used to brush and avoid touching my gums.. then I had a dentist insist I should also be brushing across my gum lines to keep them healthy. So, not sure if you went crazy with the electric, or if maybe it was something else? Also, not sure if you called 5 dentists if you'd get 1, or more than 1 opinion on this. But I am told I have healthy gyms and I do brush over the line between tooth and gum.
aszantu · 3 years ago
I don't know if this will work, depending if they're scarred or open, gelatine might work, add to warm water until dissolved, then keep in mouth for a while then swallow - I used to have reflux, gelatine helped a lot - it's also good for joint-pain (if u still have jelly in the joints that can be replenished)
wingworks · 3 years ago
Yeah, this! Also, if you still use manual brush (don't), use soft bristle and be gental. Harder is not better when it comes to tooth brushing. Don't do what you typically see in movies.

As for your gums, they don't grow back I believe, but you can get surgery of sorts by using other parts of your mouth and stick them in your gums. See; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6EgSM5TlA

ornornor · 3 years ago
Same here. Nothing to do as stopping the hard brushing stopped recession progress and gum graft is a heavy, expensive procedure that definitely leaves marks on the gums. It also makes me queasy knowing you’re basically getting gums grafted from a donor who died. Mine are recessed enough that it can get painful brushing after eating too acidic foods but not enough to justify the procedure. For acidic foods, I rinse my mouth with baking soda dissolved in water right after eating and it helps a lot. Dentists can also apply fluoride to the exposed parts but it tastes horrible while they do it, and only lasts a few weeks before it’s gone.
jasongrout · 3 years ago
If it's gum recession, you could try talking to a periodontist about a gum graft.
graeme · 3 years ago
Pretty sure they can do a gum graft by taking piece of the roof of your mouth
xyzelement · 3 years ago
Yup! Also the Phillips ones are just based on vibration (as opposed to some rotation in oral-b) which is also much better for your teeth and gums.
SpaghettiX · 3 years ago
Many people (including myself) have found their "sonicare" toothbrush break within 6 months. I got mine replaced under warranty, and it broke again after 1 year.

Why does a 3 year old video for repairing Sonicare toothbrush have 425K reviews on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3PBPU2jXbo, with 2.8K upvotes and 192 downvotes. It breaks because a screw goes loose inside the toothbrush.

I recommend you avoid Phillips electric toothbrush completely. I used a oral-B electric toothbrush for at least 8 years with no issues. And Phillips breaks in 6 months.

pelagic_sky · 3 years ago
Huh, my dentist told me not to get the oral-b because the rotation is bad for your teeth. They mentioned sonic as the preferred because the motion matches the grain of your teeth.
gambiting · 3 years ago
Or the Oral-B equivalent, the Pulsonic. I found it to be a great upgrade from my old electric toothrush(and it seems a lot more higenic too, because there are no spaces between the bristles in the head to allow movement, since the entire head is vibrating).
BilalBudhani · 3 years ago
I'm about to order one for myself. Which model are you using? I'm thinking of getting 5100.
informalo · 3 years ago
Something related I came to know only recently is that it has been shown to be more effective to floss before brushing teeth. I have been doing it the other way around my entire life.
Kiro · 3 years ago
Don't you leave a lot of scraps after flossing? Not brushing afterwards is unthinkable to me.
qwerty456127 · 3 years ago
My dentist told me I should only use a sonic toothbrush Sonicare or similar because they actually clean while rotational electronic toothbrushes almost literally sweep the crap to under your gums (so they clean the teeth but harm gum gealth).
havaloc · 3 years ago
Mine told me the rotational ones are better. And I think there's some empirical evidence there because when they polish your teeth, they use a rotational tool.
aszantu · 3 years ago
I recently learned, that you can use crushed eggshells to replenish calcium in teeth, just add them to the toothe paste. (I use a canine supplement)

If you're teeth-grinder at night, a few tiny pieces of eggshells help keep the grinding at bay, because you can grind on a piece of eggshell without danger and then relax again.

acomms · 3 years ago
Are you saying this method is to sleep with eggshells in your mouth?
moffkalast · 3 years ago
Jesse, what the hell are you talking about?
petodo · 3 years ago
This. I discovered electric toothbrush in my mid 30s, I have good teeth and brushed already with regular toobrush pretty good, but to be really thorough I had to be always tired after brushing, now with electric toothbrush I can achieve same result with less energy, less tired.

Btw. I went through bunch of cheap noname toothbrushes to realize there is reason you pay for Philips and Oral-B brands, all cheap toothbrushes will fail within few weeks/months due to humidity or other failures, didn't have such experience with those two famous brands, wife and me use Oral-B Pulsonic Slim for years (extremely slim and light, but less powerful), for son who had problem with teeth I bought a bit better (heavier but more powerful) Philips HX6511 (still quite cheap, next time I'd buy this also for myself). Daughter has still cheap Xiaomi, waiting when it will finally break (from 4 I bought 3 broken), then will probably go for same Philips.

Btw. be aware most of the electric toothbrushes still use old NiCd batteries with memory effect, so to achieve maximum battery life/longetivity you should NOT leave tootbrush in charger, but charge it only when it runs out of battery, if you keep it in charger stand it is significantly decreasing battery life with each charging to the point it is useless already by the end of warranty.

arcticfox · 3 years ago
100%, and just a quick note that the quality of the brush makes a surprising difference. I was always skimping and buying $5-$10 electric toothbrushes when I tried in the past and was underwhelmed.

I finally tried a name brand brush from Costco when my wife insisted and it blew my mind. Actually excited to go to the dentist to see what they say this time when I’m not full of plaque for once

aighaelitjlaiw · 3 years ago
I had the exact opposite experience. I bought a Sonicare Diamondwhatever and was incredibly disappointed. After two or three months of using that I had visible stains on my teeth that had never been there before. So now I'm back to manual brushing and I've had no significant problems.
champagnepapi · 3 years ago
THIS! I used to get like 5 cavaites a year, costing me between $300-$900 a year with insurance (US). Then i spent like $120 on an electric toothbrush, nothing ever since, and my gums are so much healthier according to my dentist. I learned this at age 29. Wish i used them years earlier!
rjh29 · 3 years ago
I've tried both water jets and electric toothbrushes and they do nothing for me. In particular the tiny circular brush just didn't feel as good as the full-sized bristles on a normal brush. I didn't feel as clean afterwards.
dvirsky · 3 years ago
Not using a water flosser as well. It always looked to me like some novelty shopping channel thing. Then I got one and OMG this thing cleans so well, way better than normal flossing (which I was usually to lazy to do anyway).
LeonenTheDK · 3 years ago
Can confirm, I couldn't get over how clean my teeth felt the first time I used an electric toothbrush in adulthood. The vibrating rattled my skull at first though, that took a few sessions to get used to haha.
ericol · 3 years ago
Some 15+ years ago (Don't quite remember the year, probably 2005) I bought myself an electric brush. My gf at the time mocked me for wasting money on "such an useless thing".

A few months later she went together with her sister to their annual dentist checkup. The dentist praised her sister for how clean her teeth were, while he told my gf hers were "OK". What was it that her sister was doing differently? She was using an electric toothbrush.

I'm pretty certain you can guess what was the very first thing my then gf did coming out of the dentist.

bxhsjbaian · 3 years ago
I switched back from an electric toothbrush to a regular one. My biggest issue withthe electric tooth brushes, distractions. You have 2 mins, 30 seconds for each quadrant. If while I brush someone talks to me e.g. what do you want for breakfast, or you see something that distracts you e.g s spec of dust on the mirror that you quickly clean up. I end up feeling like I didnt do a good job on one of the quadrants. Yes you can start over and do more but I generally dont. So I wanted to get rid of the artificial 2 min time limit. :)
giantg2 · 3 years ago
Somebody asks you what you want for breakfast?

Clearly youve figured something out and I've been doing something wrong my whole life.

arcticfox · 3 years ago
This reasoning is completely foreign to me.

You’re ditching it because sometimes you lose track of the time (and don’t want to push the button again) for something that doesn’t have a timer at all?

thiht · 3 years ago
I have a basic Oral-B electric tooth brush and you can actually "pause" it. I gag easily so I sometimes need to turn it off, and when I restart it it remembers where it was. So sometimes I restart it, continue what I was doing and it buzzes after 5-10 seconds because I was almost finished.

If a basic model does it, I'd guess they all do it!

Also don't forget you can ignore the vibrations, just continue after the 2 minutes and count in your head if you need it.

itisit · 3 years ago
This setting you refer to can be disabled on most every Philips electric toothbrush that has it.

Deleted Comment

J_cst · 3 years ago
I had the exact same experience. I always thought that the electric toothbrush was something for lazy ppl, then only recently - spotting one of the best electric brushes heavily discounted - I bought it. I felt I never had my teeth so clean. A game changer.
e40 · 3 years ago
Try using a water flosser after regular floss. You will be genuinely surprised how much crap comes out. Since I started that routine, my hygienist has become extra friendly and chatty and say she loves working on my teeth.
fatnoah · 3 years ago
> Not using an electric toothbrush. First time I used one it felt like I'd had a proper dental cleaning.

Same here. It's completely changed my life. For mini-me, the built-in timer helps them be sure to brush enough.

kibwen · 3 years ago
For ADHD brain, the timer built into the toothbrush makes all the difference. Sometimes that 30 second interval feels like five seconds, and sometimes I could swear it's been five minutes and I start wondering if it's broken. Nope, that's just ADHD time blindness. I almost certainly never brushed for anywhere close to long enough prior to my electric toothbrush.
vultour · 3 years ago
I wish there was a way to change the timer because I find it ridiculously short, I'm usually barely halfway through when the entire cycle is finished.
kirso · 3 years ago
Literally discovered this only a month ago :( I wish I've done it sooner.
entropicgravity · 3 years ago
BBC has a good article titled "90% OF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT BRUSHING PROPERLY" and they are right. Well worth googling.
mooreds · 3 years ago
I wanted to be sold on an electric toothbrush, but I've only used one off and on.

How did you get into the habit?

bckr · 3 years ago
> an electric toothbrush, but I've only used one off and on

There’s a good little joke in here.

FWIW, I’ve gone back and forth on electric toothbrushes and settled on non-electric. I’ve found that a medium-firmness bristle and a rigorous and thorough brushing is what leaves me feeling cleanest. Plus it’s simple, easy to replace, and easier to properly dispose of.

Then again, maybe a super high end electric would change my mind.

gwbas1c · 3 years ago
I go to two different hygienists and they both recommended the fancy Sonicare.

Specifically, the one you connect to your phone coaches you on the right amount of pressure and time to use throughout your mouth.

rjh29 · 3 years ago
1. Buy an electric toothbrush 2. Throw away all of your old toothbrushes
coreyhn · 3 years ago
I just discovered this recently as well. I agree it was better than I thought.
ramraj07 · 3 years ago
Disagreed; bought and used multiple electric toothbrushes and quickly stopped. I felt I always did a better job myself; turns out I instinctually brushed for 2 minutes minimum and ensured I didn’t just do the circular motion (as the dentist pointed out the second and last time I went to one in my life). Also, I never flossed, I have an anecdotal theory that if you never floss you never open the gaps in your teeth so it’s actually better. Touch wood haven’t had to do anything to my teeth even though my dietary habits are some of the worst anyone around me has seen
toxik · 3 years ago
Some people just don’t get cavities very easily. You are extrapolating from that.

Floss. For the love of God, floss. People carry around chronic gum infections in between teeth. Ask me how I know.

aatd86 · 3 years ago
I don't know wvy you are downvoted.

So have I. And several dentists have actually recommended manual brushing to me as well.

On the other hand, water flossing has been a boon against dental plaque and bad breath. I used to never floss.

Disgusting mistake... A lot of food particles get stuck in the teeth interstitial spaces, macerating in there overnight or even several days... Yuck. :x

muzani · 3 years ago
Pasta and sauce are not meant to be separate. Once you cook the pasta, drain it, and immediately toss with the sauce. This is part of the reason it was meant to be al dente, to absorb and deliver the flavor of the sauce better. Unlike rice, it's fine to "soak" pasta in the sauce; it expands when freshly cooked but not when cool.

Also most sauce recipes are probably overcomplicated. Most need less than 5 ingredients. You probably don't need all that onion and garlic, but one of them. Definitely not two tablespoons of dried oregano.

The way you cut onions and garlic changes the flavor a lot too. Finely minced garlic, from a food processor or garlic press can be overpowering yet not deliver the flavor. One trick is to crush the garlic and let the oil it's in carry the flavor. Half an onion can work really well in a sauce you cooking for half an hour.

nlh · 3 years ago
Two related tips while on the subject:

1) Salt your pasta water! Pasta is meant to be cooked in salty water that, according and excellently-put by Samin Nosrat (Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat) - "is reminiscent of the sea".

2) Save and use a splash of ("dirty") pasta water - aka the water the pasta was just cooked in - when you're tossing the pasta with the sauce. The water is filled with delightful liquified starch from the pasta, and it helps the sauce coat the pasta more thoroughly.

4ggr0 · 3 years ago
> "is reminiscent of the sea"

Had lots of funny moments in my life relating to salting pasta water. Almost all the people I know put like two pinches of salt into the water. Which causes them to look at me like I'm a psycho when I pour salt in for almost a full second, straight out of the container.

I can +1 both of your tips, I follow them both since I learned to cook and they're a (small but effective) game-changer.

williamdclt · 3 years ago
Some more pasta water insights:

- A good ratio of salt/water is one tablespoon per litre (or gallon). Reduce if the sauce is going to be very salty already (eg carbonara). We're talking kosher salt here (specifically Diamon Crystal), if using table salt it's probably going to be half of that: salt density varies a lot depending on the type.

- Cook your pasta is _as little_ water as possible. For some reason there's some myth that you want to cook pasta in a large volume of water: that's BS. What makes pasta water "liquid gold" is the starch that comes from the pasta, you want that as concentrated as possible.

Vinnl · 3 years ago
What does salting your pasta water do, other than aligning with how it was "meant to be"? I've never noticed a difference, but also didn't salt it that extensively, and this was years ago.
kristjansson · 3 years ago
Not sure who said it, but I've had the advice "enough salt to scare your guests" in my head for years. Adding the salt after the water boils is also very, very satisfying.
antognini · 3 years ago
Pasta water should be "as salty as tears."
mattrighetti · 3 years ago
1a) Salt your water when it reaches boiling temperature, then put pasta in it.
donatj · 3 years ago
I really thought I hated spaghetti growing up. My parents would boil the noodles and then pour room temp sauce from a jar at the table individually. It was inedible.

I was visiting a friend and had it all cooked together in the pan for the first time and it was eye opening.

bityard · 3 years ago
This reminds me...

My parents were on the lower end of rural middle-class so on the rare occasion we went to a restaurant, steak was avoided as the most expensive thing on the menu, and as kids, we didn't have the option of steak anyway. Our meats while growing up were mainly fish, chicken, pork, and hamburger. When I was a teen, my mom got a deal on a big box of steaks somehow and cooked them on the grill every other night for dinner. She made it sound like we were living like royalty but no matter what kind of sauces or seasonings I slathered on, they were always dry and tasteless. I voluntarily skipped a lot of dinners that summer and thought I just hated steak.

In my mid-20s, I befriended a Brazilian. He invited my spouse and I over for a barbecue. When we got there, I found out the only thing going on the grill was steak, a.k.a. Brazilian Beef. Basically thick chunks of steak "marinated" in rock salt then cooked over open coals to sear the outside, but never long enough to get the inside more than medium-rare. I probably mentioned not caring for steak but he assured me I was going to like it. And wow, he was right. So tasty, so juicy. Decades later, I still make it every chance I get.

My wife and I sometimes talk about how our parents basically ruined whole categories of food for us until we got out into the world and experienced (or learned for ourselves) how things were _supposed_ to be cooked.

thiscatis · 3 years ago
Room temp sauce on cooked pasta?! Just gagged reading this.
gwbas1c · 3 years ago
One of the things I did my whole life was never criticize my mother's cooking. (She was a much better cook than me, especially her pasta sauce.)

BUT: Once I started cooking I started coaching her back. Specifically, I taught her to defrost her burgers before grilling.

Spivak · 3 years ago
That's the spaghetti where the starches have curled back up and make it so the noodles and sauce are like oil and water. Ahh childhood.
peteradio · 3 years ago
Can anyone recommend good books on PTSD for relief from reading about OPs childhood?

Dead Comment

SpaceL10n · 3 years ago
To mix or not to mix? That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer, the soaking of pasta in outrageous marinara, or to take arms against a sea of sauce.

I remember Anthony Bourdain asking his Sicilian family this question, and the table erupted in hot debate. I'm not sure you are "wrong".

mrguyorama · 3 years ago
Mixing and finishing the pasta in the sauce results in better tasting food. I don't care if some angry Sicilian claims that's not "authentic" or some garbage. They don't own the concept of pasta in tomato sauce anymore.
jacknews · 3 years ago
Also, you don't have to boil the pasta for the full 8 minutes or whatever, just the first couple of minutes, then let it sit, eg https://www.barilla.com/en-gb/passive-cooking
dgacmu · 3 years ago
+1. I used to subscribe to "huge pot of boiling water" until Kenji studied it.

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-cook-pasta-salt-water-boi...

I've switched to his method. It works really well. Doesn't take as long to boil, uses less gas, uses less water, uses less salt (b/c you waste less in the water). Now I just heat the water to boiling, throw in the pasta, let it come back to a boil, stir a bunch, turn off the heat, and put the lid on. Works every time.

gpderetta · 3 years ago
Obvious in retrospect: once the water is boiling, any other increase of energy will only be used to evaporate the water. The temperature won't increase. And water can stay hot long enough to cook the pasta. Also less vapor in the environment. I'll try it next time.
jdmtheNth · 3 years ago
I cared while I thought it was a way to better pasta. Very disappointing.
maliker · 3 years ago
Someone introduced me to making red sauce by basically just cooking tomatoes for as much time as I have, and it's now my go-to red sauce. Really amazing how good just well-cooked tomatoes are. https://www.seriouseats.com/frankies-tomato-sauce-recipe
bckr · 3 years ago
+1 just for the link to Serious Eats.

If you have a recipe in mind to make, look it up on Serious Eats. Their MO is to give you ideas on how to level up each recipe (compared to food network or similar) and explain the principles behind the techniques.

moffkalast · 3 years ago
Well that should also be how they make tomato sauce you buy in the store, it's just filtered so you don't get seeds and large pieces of peel in it.
bob1029 · 3 years ago
> One trick is to crush the garlic and let the oil it's in carry the flavor.

I usually sauté garlic in oil separately, discard the garlic and then use the oil as a sort of super garlic flavor concentrate.

I used to believe the actual ingredients were ~80% of the puzzle of cooking. I now believe they're closer to ~20% for most cases. The process you follow is way more important than anything else.

Just take a sweet onion for instance. The difference 2-3 minutes makes in a hot pan is incredible. If you simply chopped it up and threw it directly into whatever, you will wind up with something that tastes substantially less flavorful.

cabalamat · 3 years ago
> Unlike rice, it's fine to "soak" pasta in the sauce

Why is this bad with rice? When I make a stew I often put some rice in, with the expectation that the rice will absorb some of the stew.

jerf · 3 years ago
Rice can almost fully disintegrate if left in water, and will become something that disintegrates even more if stirred or agitated. In many other applications it replaces a pleasantly tactile and textured starch with a sort of sludge slurry, but as is often the case if you know and expect this it can be used in some applications advantageously. Thickening a stew is one of them. It's actually my favorite stew thickener. We discovered this the hard way once, though. We just "threw some rice" into a stew, and, well, if you put enough "sludge slurry" into a stew it starts to dominate... since then, though, it's been something very useful, especially since I'm allergic to flour, one of the traditional choices.
cassianoleal · 3 years ago
Same. Also to make risotto you cook the rice with everything else and keep stirring so the rice absorbs all of it whilst releasing starch to make that creamy texture.
dfxm12 · 3 years ago
It's not bad, per se. It depends what you're going for. There's a lot of different ways to cook rice "properly" depending on the end dish. Congee, risotto, paella, sushi, etc. all have you cook rice differently while adding various degrees of liquid at different times.
muzani · 3 years ago
It doesn't work well with most Asian dishes with sauces. Such as butter chicken, curry, the stuff with coconut milk, sambal.

I think stew might be an exception, because you want it to be porridge-like. But for many sauces, that's too soggy. You usually want it to soak for a few seconds to minutes but not an hour.

yamtaddle · 3 years ago
Relatedly, I spent far too long cooking my pizza sauce, treating it like other red sauces.

You can just mix tomato sauce, oregano, salt, and pepper, then slap it on the pie. It cooks in the oven. No need to pre-cook it.

[EDIT] unless you're gonna use it for dipping. There's a reason places have a separate "marinara", often, for that purpose. Even giving your pizza sauce a quick simmer will make it a lot better for dipping. Raw pizza sauce is... palatable, but not great, for dipping.

efxhoy · 3 years ago
I learned this from the sopranos: https://youtu.be/J2TkCgLooRU
fedeb95 · 3 years ago
The following is well known by Italians, but apparently not the rest of the world so I'll post here. I'll use italian names whenever I don't know the english ones so you can search them and make a cool impression on friends. This is the base of any tomato based sauce:

1. Choose your soffritto base. Onion or garlic are fine, more exotic variations include scalogno or porro.

2. Choose your tomato. Canned, fresh, whatever, just keep in mind that fresh ones may need longer cooking times. As for canned, check that they contain no seasoning at all!

3. Choose your grease. Oil or butter are fine, the standard is olive oil though. It may be hard to find proper olive oil outside of Italy I'm told.

4. Start cooking. Put your oil in a large pan, enough to contain all the pasta you plan to use afterwards. Not too much oil: just enough to cover the pan with a thin layer. Don't start heating the pan.

5. Cut your onion or whatever in small pieces and add them to the oil. Now turn on the heat at a reasonable level. Not too high but not low. Don't touch the onion!

6. When the onion looks a bit browny (not dark brown), add the tomato and lower at minimum the heat. If you have a thermometer, ideally you don't want to cross 60 degrees celsius over all the cooking period. This period can vary between 10 minutes and 60 minutes, it gives different tastes (all good) to the sauce. If you opt for the shortest time, go back at step 5 and at the same time start the next step.

7. Put 1l of water for every 100g of pasta in a pot. Add salt. With experience you'll get the right amount, usually I use about a small fist for two people (160-200g). Heat up the water and wait until boiling.

8. Drop the pasta in the water. Start a chronometer. Almost immediately mix it or otherwise it will stick. Wait a couple of minutes and mix again.

9. Meanwhile the sauce will start bubbling and, depending on your kitchen, you may need to mix it. If you see large discrepancies in texture, definitely mix. Otherwise don't. If it becomes too dry, add some water from the cooking pasta to the sauce.

10. When the chronometer is at cooking_time_on_pasta_packaging - 2 minutes, take a glass of water and fill it with water from the pasta pot. Dry the pasta, and put it in the pan with the sauce. Make the heat level for the pan a bit higher.

11. Cook it until "al dente", that is still a bit hard at the inside, but not completely. If the sauce dries too much (it should, if not turn the heat higher), add the water you kept in the glass. This step is where science stops and art begins: you need to calibrate your taste to your desired results and in turn calibrate water and heating. During all this step, mix your pasta in the same direction continuously. This is called "risottatura". Taste the pasta while cooking often.

11. Take everything off the fire, serve, add parmisan.

Edit: look at maccard comment for water and salt because I don't recall the right quantities. After a while you go by eye.

Edit 2: preventing more comments on oil, that is merely my very limited experience and I'd say, as a rule of thumb (not incontrovertible truth), that if you like your oil alone with bread it is a good oil.

maccard · 3 years ago
This post is wrong in many areas,

> Canned, fresh, whatever, just keep in mind that fresh ones may need longer cooking times.

Unless you know you've got _excellent_ fresh tomatoes, canned ones will win.

> Oil or butter are fine

Cooking your onion in butter is going to give a very very different result to using oil. Personally speaking, not one I would recommend.

> It may be hard to find proper olive oil outside of Italy I'm told.

High quality dop/docg olive oil is readily available all over the world, and there are plenty of places all around the mediterranean that have olive oil as good as Italian oil.

> Put 1l of water for every 100g of pasta in a pot. Add salt.

This is way too much water. serious eats[0] has an excellent article that is well worth reading if you care about pasta. You also should give an indication of how much salt to use - it's way way way more than you think it is. Like, tablespoon of salt per litre of water salty.

[0] https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-cook-pasta-salt-water-boi...

SSLy · 3 years ago
All of those are true but >It may be hard to find proper olive oil outside of Italy I'm told.

Spanish and Greeks have nothing to be shy about here.

fedeb95 · 3 years ago
This is the basic: many variations are possible, like heating oil before putting in the onion, onion cooking temperature, adding spices (but the only one I really like added is pepper). Also risottatura times can vary: some recipes are so extreme as cooking the raw pasta directly in the sauce, but unless you're making those specific recipes this is not recommended. A good time is 4 minutes, also 1 is good, if you want you can skip risottatura but at least do a copule of turns to pasta with sauce to mix everything together.
throwaway743 · 3 years ago
And if you're making a red sauce, simmer a little anchovy paste or a couple anchovies (till they melt down) first with bay leaf, olive oil, and garlic before adding anything else into the pot. Broken up kalamata olives, basil, and onion are good around that point/shortly after too.

And when you add in the tomato puree (or your preference), add a tiny bit of sugar. If the sauce looks like it has a sheen, it's ruined. Just a tiny amount will do.

Do this and your sauce will taste 10 times better. Not a fan of anchovies, but you won't even be able to tell.

hgsgm · 3 years ago
> it expands when freshly cooked but not when cool.

Make noodle soup and let it sit in the fridge for a week. It will expand.

mrguyorama · 3 years ago
Yeah but "let sit in fridge for a week" is probably not a great instruction in the middle of an easy weeknight dinner.
ahallock · 3 years ago
I agree that people need to learn to combine them (add a little butter, too!). I like both variations, honestly. With most things, it's not either or, and there are different taste profiles. It's like variations on pizza where the sauce is added last.
moffkalast · 3 years ago
> Unlike rice, it's fine to "soak" pasta in the sauce

Risotto would like a word.

gpderetta · 3 years ago
You still don't soak risotto, you keep the liquid content within limits.

Also different rices.

sllabres · 3 years ago
Heat your plates (e.g. with the cooking water) and rub dry to prevent your your delicious meal get cold too soon. This is of course not only good for pasta.
2-718-281-828 · 3 years ago
and the secret spice of any sauce is ... sugar. yes, I'm very sorry. thank me later
jethkl · 3 years ago
I thought colorblindness tests were designed to be tricky and subtle, so I always passed them through very close inspection. I'm just colorblind.
rbt5009 · 3 years ago
I'm also colorblind and this cracked me up. I sent your comment to my friends who don't believe I can't see the numbers in those tests.
nbaugh1 · 3 years ago
Had a friend who was absolutely convinced we were all pranking him when doing a colorblindness test. We were all doing the test because about 15 minutes prior, someone had asked him to grab a pink object off of a shelf and he came back with a green one in total seriousness
therealdrag0 · 3 years ago
What cracked me up is when tons of color blind people on Reddit discovered peanut butter is not green.
antognini · 3 years ago
My mom had me tested in kindergarten when we were learning the colors and I couldn't get pink right. I kept confusing it with white.
abetusk · 3 years ago
Have you tried using those colorblind glasses? Maybe something like Enchroma [0] or dichroic filters?

[0] https://enchroma.com/

rbt5009 · 3 years ago
I'm highly red/green colorblind. I got a pair of these as a gift and they allow me to differentiate between reds/greens much more clearly and to see red where I wouldn't notice without them. I know for some people they don't do much, but it makes hikes and such much more colorful for me!
bragr · 3 years ago
I can't speak for OP's colorblindness, but for me those do basically nothing.
vegardx · 3 years ago
This company has so shady marketing. They don't work as advertised.

The way they hire actors to play out wholesome videos and upload them to YouTube as if it's organic content, with massive fake users to comment and push up false claims and down vote brigade all negative comments should tell you all you need about this shady company.

solarmist · 3 years ago
Lol, yeah, sometimes an analytical mind works against you by taking things too seriously.

This is when it would've been good to ask someone about it.

Deleted Comment

jansan · 3 years ago
I actually laughed at this one, you are a real hacker.
impalallama · 3 years ago
oh no
maushu · 3 years ago
You should try a reverse colorblindness test like this: https://www.colorlitelens.com/color-blindness-test/secret-of...
Moissanite · 3 years ago
That is one of the worst designed things I have ever seen. The instructions barely made sense at all for the first test, and for subsequent ones where you can enter 2 responses there is absolutely no indication what should be going on.
zenexer · 3 years ago
I’ve been in a lot of ophthalmologist’s offices for a variety of issues, and even had surgery as a child to correct one of them. The one issue I do not have is color blindness—and I’ve been given a lot of these tests.

This website doesn’t work on my iPhone’s screen. It’s impossible to discern most of the numbers, and the UI doesn’t instill confidence. Are they just using this garbage to hock their glasses to people who don’t need them?

This website is thoroughly broken, and nobody should even use it as a suggestion that they are or aren’t colorblind.

stuckkeys · 3 years ago
I just took a test. I cannot see shit in color. Haha. Fuk! Do those glasses actually help reverse this? I can clearly see RGB. But some hues look the same. Are people born color blind or is this wear and tear kind of situation?
mabbo · 3 years ago
My father said to me: "I like a shower better than a bath, but ugh, that first blast of cold water when you turn it on is always a bit shocking."

Me: "Why don't you turn on the shower, wait for it to get warm, then get in?"

Him, realizing he'd been using a shower wrong for over 6 decades: "... huh."

raldi · 3 years ago
There's a clever product that you can screw inline with the showerhead that lets cold water through at full blast but when the water gets hot, something pops (presumably using metal-expansion properties the way old thermostats did) and the flow is reduced to a trickle, so you only use just enough water to keep it hot.

Then when you get in, you pull a cord and it releases the full pressure of nice hot water.

jedberg · 3 years ago
We just keep a 5 gallon bucket next to the shower and fill it up with the pre-warm water. Then we use it to water the garden (and sometimes to power flush a stuck toilet).
saulpw · 3 years ago
The army method: stand there and take it like a man.

The Superman method: put your hand up to block the blast.

The Spiderman method: jump to the opposite side of the shower to avoid the blast.

The clever method: turn on the shower and wait outside.

nashashmi · 3 years ago
The Pakistani method: shower with fully cold water in the summer. And mock anyone (mostly spoiled people from the Middle East) who turns the water heater on during summer months.
bryanlarsen · 3 years ago
Related: you can buy "hot water recirculation systems" to keep the water hot in your shower. When the water in your hot water pipes gets cold, it dumps it into your cold water pipes. Therefore the water isn't wasted.

This can save a lot of water if you're the type to let your shower run until it is warm. So some jurisdictions encourage their installation.

ericpauley · 3 years ago
Sounds like false economy to me. You’re saving a minute amount of water but using far more energy to keep less-insulated water warm.
tzs · 3 years ago
I don't know if they are still around, but I've seen a shower head that includes a clever mechanism to reduce water waste if you let the shower run until warm.

When you turn on the shower, the head operates normally while the water is cold. When the water becomes warm a valve in the head closes to stop the flow. There is a button on the head you press to open the valve, which then stays open until you turn off the water.

The idea is that many people turn on the shower to warm up but don't just wait around in the bathroom to jump in as soon as the water is warm. They go do other things like start their coffee machine or wake up the kids or check the news and weather. Between the time the shower warms up and they get around to coming to see if it is warm they might waster several minutes worth of warm water.

With this clever shower head they don't waste that water. Also, if they can hear the shower running from wherever they are doing other stuff when they hear it stop they know the warm water is ready.

ajb · 3 years ago
I think those mostly work when the shower is running though. When it's stopped the water in the cold pipe is eventually going to get cold. Still a good idea - I've been planning to get one when I next redo my bathroom.
Agentlien · 3 years ago
What's "a lot of water" in this context? My shower typically takes just a few seconds to get to temperature. Even a quick shower is typically a few minutes, so that tiny amount seems insignificant.
Anerudhan · 3 years ago
Why do not people use a bucket and a mug. By collecting water from the shower from freezing cold to scalding hot you average out the temperature for a nice warm shower and no wastage.
hawk_ · 3 years ago
That makes me wonder if there's a system that can recycle the heat lost in drain (hot water from the shower that just got drained).
bmelton · 3 years ago
Not quite as effective, but even easier is that you can get a back-flow preventer valve (approximately $10 worth of metal) that allows the hot water to push into your cold water (but not the reverse)

As I understand it (and I am NOT a plumber) -- when you turn on the hot water, it pushes hot water up the line. Turn off the water, and that water will cool. But, if you add a one-way valve that allows flow from hot to cold, it will allow the higher pressure hot water line to flow into the cold water line so that it keeps hot water to the tap so that you don't have to wait (in my case) 5 minutes to flush out the cold water that has accumulated before getting to the hot water.

A plumber friend suggested this to me when I complained about my master bathroom (the furthest in the house away from the heater) taking SO LONG to warm up. Then he came out and installed it in about 15 minutes (which would probably amount to a one hour minimum charge for a plumber not doing it for free) plus a $10 part he had us buy on Amazon.

TLDR, now instead of taking 5 minutes to heat up from ice cold to warm to eventually hot, the hot water is warm from the second I open it, and hot within about 15-20 seconds.

p1mrx · 3 years ago
If you have a sink near the shower, run it full blast on hot to flush the cold water from the pipe.

This mainly saves time, but it also saves water if your shower mixer valve doesn't go to 100% hot. (It's generally good to keep the hot limiter below 100%, to avoid full-body scalding.)

sockaddr · 3 years ago
I think that blast of cold water might have done good things for his endorphin levels. Just curious about this anecdote, was he generally a happy person?
beznet · 3 years ago
for me, I take showers at night close to bed time. The last thing I want to experience is a cold shock to my system at that time of day. I can see it being useful in the morning though
SilasX · 3 years ago
That ... still seems like the wrong way. Every shower I've known has let you angle the head down. So start it that way, feel for the water to get warm, then turn it towards you.

With the method you described, it takes longer, with more water usage, to get into position, plus you let some water spray out into the rest of the bathroom as you transition inside it.

pards · 3 years ago
Wim Hof would disagree. I always start and end my showers with 1 minute of full cold (in Canada, so cold = 8°C)
OJFord · 3 years ago
I'm sure we can find a bizarre cult/motivational speaker/pyramid scheme to disagree with anything though.
tasuki · 3 years ago
Why start the shower full cold? (I end showers cold, not sure if 1 minute, sometimes less sometimes more depending on mood)
number6 · 3 years ago
I like your dad's way better; also don't turn on the warm water
yamtaddle · 3 years ago
But that would ruin the best waking part of 95% of my days.
godshatter · 3 years ago
Huh. I just block the stream with my hand until it warms up.
deckardt · 3 years ago
I literally started doing this like five days ago. I'm 43...
heldrida · 3 years ago
Haha! Thanks for sharing! I had a good laugh :D
hprotagonist · 3 years ago
Right; the cold blast comes at the end!
anthonypasq · 3 years ago
my shower at my current apartment actually have the temp and volume nozzles separate so that i can taper the water pressure and it stays hot. Its delightful, i dont know why this isnt standard.
coreyhn · 3 years ago
Haha, gotta love the simple solutions
thyrox · 3 years ago
Worrying and arguing about things in the future.

I wasted so much time and energy on this but as I get older I've realised there is so little of what we can actually control vs what we think we can do. Most of the time just saying Yes and waiting for things to actually happen is so much easier. A lot of time what you worry about never happens and if it does it isn't always as bad as you make things out to be in your head. A lot of times it turns out to be actually good and it would've been a shame to avoid it.

Also when you say yes to people, a lot of time the other person never actually follows through the thing you didn't want. Otoh if you would argue or say No beforehand it always has the opposite effect.

I guess for most people this is common sense but I did this wrong for a large younger part of my life.

ThalesX · 3 years ago
I argue for the future so much. I hope to be able to at one point get rid of my anxiety about it. But:

> Also when you say yes to people, a lot of time the other person never actually follows through the thing you didn't want. Otoh if you would argue or say No beforehand it always has the opposite effect.

I recently started doing this and it's amazing. I was the one saying 'no' to so many 'offers' (as a full stack developer, from idea people), and always ended up being the negative guy that doesn't want to do things.

Recently I've started enthousiastically saying "Yeah, that sounds great! In order to get started, I'd need <whatever_thing_that_they_need_to_do> from you.". Up till now no one has followed up. When we talk about it next, I am as excited as in the beginning and mentioned the thing that they need to do again, and they usually go like "Oh yeah! I need to do that." and then I never hear about it again. It's a shocker to me.

ianmcgowan · 3 years ago
AKA, the "Wally Reflector", https://imgur.com/Db0c9eP

It's really easy for people to put stuff on your to-do list, reflecting even a tiny task on them before you accept it makes so many requests go away.

Related to this for me, I generally make it clear that sending an email request does not mean a task is transferred to me. We need to have a conversation and agree before it goes on my list..

musingsole · 3 years ago
People like dreaming more than they enjoy actualization. Pulling dreams into reality is hard work and necessarily heartbreaking as reality and dreams don't match.
hnfong · 3 years ago
Yes, this one hits home.

I subsequently realized that my “no” is often more involved because I actually have the idea more thought out than whoever was proposing the idea.

Then I realized that most “yes” in many contexts just means “no”. :-/ (And “no” means “no and you’re dumb” lol)

solarmist · 3 years ago
Ok, this makes more sense. Like asking you to do something that requires effort. Like group projects from HS. Or “wanna start a startup with me?”
redblacktree · 3 years ago
Here's a pithy little saying for you on the topic: "Worry is interest paid in advance on a debt you may never owe."
thih9 · 3 years ago
So, insurance?

What I want to say is that there is time and place for worrying. And sure, worrying about everything is counter productive.

dakial1 · 3 years ago
You should read about stoicism and the Dichotomy of control. I was pretty much very rational on things that I worry about, mainly asking myself "is this something I can do something about?" If not, I wouldn't worry about it anymore. After some years I learned how aligned I was to stoicism.
hinkley · 3 years ago
I used to worry about everything, now I mostly worry about stuff that has actually blown up in the last and people still prefer pain to preparedness.

I do see the Illusion of Control aspect in myself and others, and it’s weird being on the other side of that now and trying to explain to people that what they want isn’t what they need and also that we can put as much effort in as we like or we can just plan to do it twice and get on with it.

The latter is a problem magnified by management, who don’t want to pay for anything twice and will apply huge social pressure in service of the sunk cost fallacy.

solarmist · 3 years ago
You're comment threw me. I thought I was following, but discussions on the future of technology/whatever don't come with yes/no questions.

Can you give an example? Like “do you want to go ice skating Saturday?” also doesn't seem to fit your comment.

cloogshicer · 3 years ago
I feel this strongly, but it's very hard for me to stop worrying anyways. Any specific tips?
solarmist · 3 years ago
A big part of relieving worry is accepting that no matter what you do bad things do and will happen. It all comes down to being comfortable with uncertainty.

There are many ways of doing this, but consciously recognizing it and labeling is as such then allowing yourself to be okay with the possibility of the bad thing happening.

If it is a big worry sometimes you need to make it as specific as possible. Like getting fired. What exact steps would happen? What would your boss say specifically? And is that exact scenario likely to happen?

If you're still having trouble do the above, but at the end change who its about, to a co-worker for example, then ask again is this a likely scenario. And if it is then the outcome won't be that bad. If it isn't then you also have your answer.

Another is to describe the worry in detail to another person because to describe it you need to make it specific and linearize it. This is why talking it/rubber ducking out works so well. They can also point out gaps and whatnot. Usually my the time your done the worry is gone.

Many friends feel like they're not actually helping here, but just listening is the help and it makes a big difference. On the flip side you may feel like you're wasting the other person’s time because at the end there's nothing to do. His is also false, most people are happy to help even if they don't know what they did.

Anxiety/worry usually comes from unexamined fears which throw every possible bad result into your head. But pinning down specific stories you can eliminate many of them.

spoiler · 3 years ago
I would recommend therapy. It's helped me loads. Meditation can also help (but if you suspect you had a traumatic childhood, discuss meditation first with your therapist).

The reason I suggest therapy is because it can be a number of reasons for the underlying anxiety. I think it's mostly a symptom of something else, rather than a standalone issue.

jameal · 3 years ago
You might be interested in reading The Mindful Path through Worry and Rumination by Dr. Sameet Kumar. I've read it multiple times and worked through it with many of my friends. A game changer for me. He makes a great case, backed up by scientific evidence, for a regular mindfulness practice can help with worry and rumination.
sirmarksalot · 3 years ago
People see something like this and say "wow, <basic human emotion/instinct> isn't doing anything for me, how can I get rid of it?" and it becomes a sort of self-gaslighting. You're worrying about the future because it serves a function, or has served a function in the past. Find out what it's doing for you, and figure out something else you can do instead. Or maybe come to the conclusion that it actually is helping you, and accept that part of yourself.

Maybe you can acknowledge your worry, and rather than ruminating on it and letting it eat at you, you can come up with a plan to deal with the thing that's worrying you. Maybe that plan is to wait until it specifically requires your action, and give yourself permission to not worry about it for now.