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wwalexander · a year ago
I never thought I’d see the day macOS would get tiling window management. Wonder how it will interact with Stage Manager if at all.
karmakaze · a year ago
I never really understood the appeal of tiling window managers. I've gotten used to having overlapping windows with appropriate parts peek out out behind others. e.g. tail of a log behind an editor running a program, and I can bring it to the foreground to see older lines and/or scroll. To do the same with a tiling manager, I would zoom the logging pane. I suppose I just prefer less layout changes. Same for Slack, I have just enough peeping out to know there's some messages but I can't see the message text so I can ignore them until I'm ready.

Are there situations that make more sense to use a tiling manager like on larger (where all the tiles are usable) or smaller screens (where full expansion makes sense)?

somat · a year ago
For me it was a couple of X11 features not often found on mac or windows that made me think about the desktop in a desktop environment and what I want out of my window manager. My timeline sort of goes as follows.

1. focus follows mouse, the window you are pointing at gets the focus. This feels very strange at first. but pulls a surprising amount of friction out of working with multiple apps. However you have to pair this with.

2. don't raise on focus. this let you work on a lower window. to raise you click on a specific part of the window, usually the title bar. if you don't have this focus follows mouse is terrible. this lets you have the main window(usually the documentation or reference) open on top while you type away on the lower window.

3. At this point I heard of i3 and it made perfect sense to me. I have never said "boy I sure am glad this window is half covered up" I ether want one app full screen, two apps side by side(reference and work) or many small apps(terminals). why not just have the window manager enforce this instead of me fiddling with windows. these days I use mainly use spectrwm because it fills that perfect middle ground between too sparse(dwm) and too featured(i3).

That said, for my day to day operations(I sys-admin, so lots of terminals) it works great. however there are many apps that do not play well. for example, I recently set up a linux box for steam games and steam was not happy with i3(all menus were separate windows) this is probably fixable but I just went with a normal wm. And when I do actual work on it I am reminded why I like tiling wm's as I find myself shuffling windows all the time.

Closing thoughts, an example of a tiling wm internal to an app is blender, even before I started using tiling wm's I thought blender had a very good ui for getting work done, much better than the mdi type apps that were common at the time. so just imagine your whole desktop working that way. And tabs, really tabbed interfaces should be a function of your window manager not the app, but that ship has sailed and I don't think there is any way to fix it now.

sircastor · a year ago
I generally agree with you. I use my Mac with most of the windows overlapped most of the time. But occasionally I need them side-by-side to do some work. Typically referencing documents or code. Fortunately the introduction of this looks to just be an optional feature rather than a dictated "way things are".

An overlapped/stacked interface is fine a lot of the time, but the flexibility is important.

What really drives me crazy is the 100% tiled-interface. I feel like something important is just below the tiles, but I can't see it.

tayloramurphy · a year ago
I used to use Slate[0] to manage my windows but have since switched to Raycast since it was a more enjoyable experience.

I have a 49" ultrawide so it's super useful to have precise control over where a window goes. I also use 3 desktops (as Apple calls them) and have different windows sizes depending on what I'm doing. Having overlapping windows would just be super annoying now!

[0] https://github.com/jigish/slate

harshaxnim · a year ago
With tiling managers you can do all you just listed + quick snapping. Who would say no to that?
dangus · a year ago
I don't know how one can't see the appeal. Once I installed Rectangle on macOS I can quickly put windows side-by-side with a couple of keystrokes, and change which windows I want side-by-side extremely quickly

Fiddling with the mouse to resize windows manually or having windows overlapping and covering up information on each other is not really a great way to interface with them. Maybe it's helpful to locate the windows and bring them into focus, but once they're in focus and in use, I want to be maximizing their screen real estate and making sure they're 100% readable.

And, really, it's something the OS should have had at the very least as an optional feature for over a decade now. Windows introduced this feature in Windows 7. It's been a sore spot of a missing feature and it's especially detracting for the Windows users that Apple wants to have switch over to the Mac platform.

michaelmrose · a year ago
3x 27" monitors provides lots of space for multiple usable windows it helps to also be able to switch workspaces per monitor so you switch monitors with a hotkey rather than switching windows.

Compared to peek and switch it provides more usable space since windows can be maximized without leaving space for another window to peek out, less manual arrangement since Windows need not be carefully arranged. Also I normally switch because I want to do another task or in resource to a notification.

That said however we choose to analyze it it's in part subjective matter of taste. There is no singular correct answer.

nativeit · a year ago
I have a 55” 4k television that wasn’t being used, and as a joke plugged it into my Mac Mini, and with a tiling window manager it’s functionally 4 decent sized FHD monitors at once. I have left it plugged in much longer than I thought I would, it’s really much more functional than I’d imagined. I still probably prefer a regular 1440p display, for most tasks.
gloryjulio · a year ago
I used 40 inch screens for many years. Tiling is must have for big screens and it works better than multiple screens combined togather
browningstreet · a year ago
I do the same. It’s a hierarchical steppe like system. Maybe if we gave it a name, people would develop to this target.
Solstinox · a year ago
Agreed. Messy overlap + an app called HazeOver where you can dim apps out of focus is the best approach to this.
thiht · a year ago
FINALLY! I really didn’t it to come to Mac, ever.

Now so just need a clipboard history manager, a way to make cmd+tab behave like Windows alt+tab, a way to mute the mic in the status bar, and a different setting for the trackpad/mouse wheel direction, and I won’t need to install random apps for basic features anymore.

pxc · a year ago
don't forget per-app volume control, linear scroll wheel speed, some reasonable way to manage menu bar icons and ensure all can actually be accesses and used, a way to prevent the system from going to sleep (the built-in `caffeinate` command hasn't worked for years!), and searching through open windows by typing!
merlindru · a year ago
Clipboard history manager: Paste App (https://pasteapp.io - freemium) or Raycast

Cmd+Tab: AltTab (https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/)

Different setting for the trackpad/mouse wheel: Mac Mouse Fix (https://macmousefix.com) or LinearMouse (https://linearmouse.app/) or Mos (https://mos.caldis.me/)

accidentalborg · a year ago
Oh man, I couldn't live without Alfred's clipboard manager [paid] feature. I started using Alfred eons ago, bought their Powerpack, and haven't looked back since. The ability to resurface text or images I copied up to 3 months ago has saved my bacon too many times to remember.
bitsoda · a year ago
Nailed it. It's honestly criminal and something I consider UX terrorism the way macOS lacks this basic functionality when even something like ChromeOS ships these by default. Wonderful hardware, but boy is the OS rough 20+ years later.
pxc · a year ago
You still haven't seen that day, have you? macOS still offers only a floating window manager, now with some window snapping capabilities. But there is no mode or window manager built into macOS where new windows are arranged in tiles spanning the whole screen by default.
rochacon · a year ago
Exactly, by the description of it on the announcement, this is not "tiling window management" as we're used in Linux, this is just "Window Snaping" that been available on Windows and Linux for what, a decade now?

I really hope there is a "automatic tiling" option, otherwise this is just mouse support for the current "Move Window"/"Tile Window" options already available on the OS (and easily bindable via custom shortcuts).

freediver · a year ago
I use BetterSnapTool for ages and love it. Wondering if this will be good enough to replace it natively.
mvanbaak · a year ago
This was exactly what I was thinking as well. Let's see!
alejoar · a year ago
Now if they only would allow me to take the focused window to the next workspace without using the mouse.
prcrstntr · a year ago
There's a new app on the block that allows this using virtual workspaces. https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace
nico · a year ago
I use Moom for basic keyboard-based window management. Great for maximizing windows and quickly resizing them
LeoPanthera · a year ago
Yes! I've been using Moom for I think over a decade now. Cannot recommend it highly enough.
xyst · a year ago
the tiling is very basic though. reminds me of windows. i3/sway is superior, especially once you get it customized to your workflow.
thfuran · a year ago
Really basic tiling would be a vast improvement over the pathetic current built-in window management.
LogHouse · a year ago
I know it’s simple but I am so pleased with this. Now if they fixed the mouse acceleration curve and the scaling issue for monitors, I’d be at peace.
cmiller1 · a year ago
It's the only OS that offers a good acceleration curve for my trackballs, been dying with the lack of configuration for the curve under wayland :(
imbnwa · a year ago
What's the scaling issue?
xlii · a year ago
2 days ago I complained that Apple has stalled when it came to window management. I wonder if Tim Cook is reading HN ;)
lioeters · a year ago
He might have someone (or something) who reads and summarizes HN, so he can keep a finger on the pulse.
zeusly · a year ago
I hope it supports thirds and not just 50/50 layouts.
doublepg23 · a year ago
I think that’ll require the crackpot team that made Calculator on iPad possible.
mmcnl · a year ago
No mention of Stage Manager at all if I'm correct? Seems like Apple is quietly abandoning that path.
gloosx · a year ago
I wonder if they made horizontal 50/50 split possible. It is so freaking odd they decided to implement vertical 50/50, but flipping the variables and making a horizontal 50/50 is a no-no. Like no-one at Apple ever used a portrait orientation monitor.
flenserboy · a year ago
It's great for those who want it, but I really hope it can be turned off just as with most of their recent UI additions, such as Stage Manager.
saagarjha · a year ago
It's opt-in.
foxandmouse · a year ago
Since it's not available on iPadOS, I think the answer is.. it wont?
vladsanchez · a year ago
Been a happy Magnet user for long time! Nothing remarkable in this OS that hasn't been seen yet elsewhere. No innovation, only #MeToo features.

It took them a decade to release a "Send Later" feature? How's that for innovation? Snobs!

mortenjorck · a year ago
I'm honestly surprised and disappointed that all they appear to have done is Sherlock Rectangle.

Stage Manager was the most interesting and useful thing to happen to window management in over a decade, and I was really hoping we'd see Apple do more with it. Its dynamic nature (windows don't always live in just a single context!) solved a lot of problems inherent in Spaces, and yet there's still plenty of room to build on its foundation.

I was hoping we'd at least see the window snapping behavior ported over from iPadOS. It's a really well-thought-out way to simplify window resizing and overlapping, and it would go a long way on MacOS (perhaps with a toggle in Control Center for those edge cases where you actually want pixel precision). Maybe in MacOS 16...

cassianoleal · a year ago
I disabled Stage Manager after trying it out for a week or so. How the hell does that thing make any sense? Really, this is a legit question. How is that thing useful?
thiht · a year ago
> Stage Manager was the most interesting and useful thing to happen to window management in over a decade

… really? I’ve tried to use it a few times but it’s just… not good. Not very intuitive, full of idiosyncrasies, and it doesn’t solve the basic "I want to snap 2 windows side by side" problem. Maybe it’s more interesting on iPad?

I’m glad they finally bring window snapping to Mac.

spike021 · a year ago
Yeah it looks like this will usurp Magnet for me, which I've used for years now.
minimaxir · a year ago
The better question is why it took so long for Apple to copy Magnet.
imbnwa · a year ago
Rectangle and Magnet devs not happy
gnatman · a year ago
I installed Rectangle about 4 hours ago based on another thread! Tim Apple knows all.
wiseowise · a year ago
Finally Windows and Linux fanatics will shut up.
superjose · a year ago
TBH, we still need to see how it integrates with the keyboard.

Ever since I've been using a Mac since Nov. 2023 that's been one of the things that I've battled with, and I've assigned a heck tons of shortcuts to make that happen.

anthk · a year ago
CWM is not tiling and yet it can be crazy fast.
mmcnl · a year ago
Why the fanboyism? It's not a tournament. Let's embrace competition and enjoy that it brings the best out of each OS.
lttlrck · a year ago
This isn't i3/sway
fckgw · a year ago
No they just switch from "Mac doesn't have X" to "Welcome to 20212 Mac"
bsimpson · a year ago
My corp desktop is an iMac Pro (2018). For a long time, it was the best way to get a Retina-quality desktop without getting into VFX budgets. It was also in that weird period in Apple's product calendar when the one-and-done trash can was obsolete, but its replacement hadn't been released. Work usually issues whatever panels they can buy in bulk from overseas, but for a magical window, we could get a nice screen with no shenanigans by ordering an iMac Pro.

My heart dropped for a second when I saw Sequoia only supports iMacs from 2019, until I saw it supports iMac Pros from 2017. I wonder how much longer I have before Apple stops releasing updates, and corp IT decides the iMac Pro is now e-waste.

It's really unfortunate that they don't do Target Display Mode anymore. These iMacs have panels that are still top-of-the-line 6 years later. (A Studio Display is basically an iMac Pro with Apple Silicon in Target Display Mode.) I wonder if there will be a Linux distribution to convert these things into monitors when they go obsolete.

Eric_WVGG · a year ago
> top of the line panels

A few different people have figured out how to convert these panels into stand-alone displays. It's a pity that it would be impractical to make a small business out of this.

- https://ohmypizza.com/2023/04/converting-a-5k-imac-into-an-e... - https://mschmitt.org/blog/convert-5k-27-imac-external-displa...

bsimpson · a year ago
Thanks for the tips!

Wild that a hobby project I've never heard of has a whole outfit in China supporting it: http://chiyakeji.com/

I wonder if I'll be able to expense one of those when/if Apple finally deprecates the iMac Pro on my desk.

ray__ · a year ago
I've done this and it's amazing-it's the only monitor that I can use for my workstation (Linux/Windows) and my laptop (macOS) because even the (relatively) cheap LG UltraFine monitors don't work with the Nvidia GPU on my workstation.
ryandrake · a year ago
I've got so much perfectly-working e-waste from Apple. It's so sad. I'm on a Late 2014 Mac mini that's stuck on Monterey macOS 12 and a Late 2014 retina iMac that's stuck on Big Sur macOS 11(!!) An iPhone7 that's stuck on iOS15. The display on that iMac is still IMO second to none. These computers do everything I need, yet their software support is stuck back in time. And 3rd party developers are terrible about supporting previous version of macOS. They alway seem to assume you are running the latest and greatest, and deliberately remove support for earlier OSs.

Hell, I have an O.G. iPad 1 that still works perfectly as it did the day I bought it, but most of the built-in software no longer works, and the App Store is basically empty. What a sad state of affairs.

EricE · a year ago
Your not stuck (the Mac's at least) https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
jamesy0ung · a year ago
I have a 2012 Mac Mini, running Linux with a bunch of services on it. Works quite well as a server. Low power and silent.
graeme · a year ago
The line seems to have been drawn at the T2 chip.

One thing I can tell you though is that Intel has EOL’ed the chip in the iMac Pro. Meaning no more security support for the chip.

So I’m not sure the iMac Pro will get the next update. Though possible Apple has found a way to mitigate any security issues.

This is the best article I found on the topic. Note also that once the iMac Pro is out of support, it’s os will still get security updates for two years past that.

So with this announcement today we are guaranteed security support until Oct 2027 or so.

I own an iMac Pro and was pleasantly surprised today. Had been concerned the Intel EOL might end things.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/with-macos-sonoma-in...

bsimpson · a year ago
Unfortunately, I don't think our IT dept will support an old OS if a newer one is available; even if the old one gets security patches and the new one doesn't work on some machines.

Deleted Comment

aikinai · a year ago
I also really appreciated that magical window with my 2018 iMac Pro at work! Never going to be able to justify a Studio Display…
bsimpson · a year ago
It's insane that it costs as much as an iMac, but it's also insane that it effectively _is_ an iMac (with nerfed software).
musictubes · a year ago
Not quite a perfect solution but you can use the iMac as an airplay display.
hcarvalhoalves · a year ago
Apple is now imposing the same iOS obsolescence program to MacBook/iMac. That’s how you make easy money nowadays.
setopt · a year ago
iPhone XR was released in 2018, and I got mine in 2019. It will still be supported by iOS 18, which is being released in 2024.

5-6 years of fully functioning hardware with official OS updates is much better than the Android phones I had before it.

nostrademons · a year ago
I wonder how the "seamlessly drag and drop files, photos, and videos between your iPhone and Mac" will work. Right now, if you just want to grab the raw files of your photos and videos and not deal with the Photos app, your best bet is Image Capture, a 20+ year old seemingly unmaintained program that seems to glitch out disturbingly frequently. I really hope they can introduce something that seamlessly lets you drag photos off your phone and into your filesystem, just in the Finder.
dsego · a year ago
I frequently just airdrop stuff between my iphone and mac, that's the best thing coming from android, that and pasting text between devices, eg iban, passwords, etc.
ttul · a year ago
AirDrop is great in theory, but in practice 80% of the time I try to send a photo to my partner using AirDrop, it simply fails to bring up a notification on her devices. In my experience, Apple often delivers well much of the time, but will allow mysterious bugs like this to pervade a feature for years without finding a fix despite much discussion in their customer forums. I wish they did a better job of fixing such problems.
nostrademons · a year ago
I want the source list to be the Finder on my Mac, not "All Photos" on the iPhone. I frequently have 2000+ photos to bring over at once; I hate dragging through all of them to select them, with one mis-touch resetting the selection. I've also found AirDrop to be very unreliable at that scale (does it even work? I've never used it for more than ~a dozen items), and want reliable file transfer functionality that can pick up where it left off if it gets interrupted.
talldayo · a year ago
I use KDE Connect to do the same thing across Android, Mac and Windows: https://kdeconnect.kde.org/

Well worth checking out.

marricks · a year ago
Right? Airdrop "just works" and so does copy paste between devices.

If this is a better AirDrop I'm all here for it. AirDrop was already leaps and bounds better than email my android phone to my PC.

StrLght · a year ago
It's already been working for quite some time: shared clipboard on iOS and macOS has supported photos and videos since more than 2 years ago. I'd expect drag-and-drop works the same way.
nostrademons · a year ago
Like I mentioned in another comment, I've got 2000+ photos to dump onto an external hard drive (Samba share technically, but I can always move from local disk to SMB easily). I'm not going to cut & paste 2000 photos individually. Hell, I don't even want to select 2000 photos for a batch operation.
magnio · a year ago
I thought that's what AirDrop is for? Even Android can drag and drop files to Windows.
lucianbr · a year ago
What do you mean from Android to Windows? How exactly can that happen? I have an android phone in my hand now and a windows desktop in front, and no clue how to even begin this drag and drop operation. Where would I even start dragging in Android?
crazygringo · a year ago
That's exactly what AirDrop is for. I think the commenter must just not know about it?
josefdlange · a year ago
Universal Access (Control? Whatever it's called) between multiple Macs not only allows sharing input methods but also dragging files back and forth, and works pretty seamlessly. I imagine the same mechanism is at work here.
cantSpellSober · a year ago
> Every time you email a file to yourself so you can pull it up on your friend's laptop, Tim Berners-Lee sheds a single tear.

https://xkcd.com/949/

dataflow360 · a year ago
iMazing might be worth checking out, for photo and video import/export.

It also has a Quick Transfer feature so you just drag and drop a file to your target device, and iMazing gives you a choice of apps to send the file to. It's similar to AirDrop but also works for Windows and seems a bit faster and more stable.

amarshall · a year ago
Drag and dropping photos and other files from iPhone (plugged via USB) works well on Linux in the file browser. Too bad it seems Apple can’t figure it out on their own OS, though maybe they have now.
isametry · a year ago
> and not deal with the Photos app

What’s the point of this qualifier?

Why not use the current, up-to-date default app for photo import that has been there since 2002 to literally serve this purpose? Yes it has a lot of extra functionality, but that doesn’t mean you have to use it. You can get originals from Photos and be done with it…

minimaxir · a year ago
The iPhone Mirroring was the most interesting announcement (and I don't think was leaked).

I suspect it will only be useful for emergencies as latency will be terrible, though.

eddieroger · a year ago
> as latency will be terrible, though

Based on what? AirPlay mirroring is great today, and this is that with data in the other direction. Current Wifi is perfectly capable of bidirectional voice and video. Adding touch/key events is incremental.

minimaxir · a year ago
"Terrible" might be an exaggeration, but even in my personal uncongested network the feed can get randomly choppy from wireless AirPlay mirroring.

Deleted Comment

fragmede · a year ago
Yeah, I use my AppleTV As a monitor for my laptop all the time via Airplay mirroring and it's fine.
ttul · a year ago
Apple would not be releasing iPhone mirroring if the latency were terrible. If they had a low bar for latency, they’d have released iPhone mirroring ten years ago. Apple's Human Interface Guidelines do not specify an exact maximum number of milliseconds for interface latency. However, they emphasize the importance of responsiveness and recommend that any user interface should feel instantaneous and fluid to create a positive user experience. The general goal is to keep latency as low as possible to ensure interactions feel immediate and natural.
drewg123 · a year ago
I'd like to use it for watching Netflix/Hulu/etc on a plane on a larger screen than my phone without being forced to carry an iPad.

I really wish Apple would just force companies to enable their iPhone/iPad apps on Apple Silicon. But if I could display a video from my phone onto my 15" laptop screen, that would be a nearly as nice.

inickt · a year ago
You can already AirPlay from an iOS device to a Mac– doing this on a plane is a bit trickier because of the networking setup though. I think I have managed to successfully do it once by either 1. doing some sort of tethering/creating a local wifi network on my Mac 2. connecting both devices to the in flight wifi

I use AirPlay to my Mac (and external monitors) even at home since I can watch the 4K feed from apps, which isn't available for some services if you use the web browser (cough HBO cough),

quenix · a year ago
Unfortunately, the DRM might not let you AirPlay Netflix content..
tsujamin · a year ago
Sidecar/display mirroring from my macbook to my ipad is pretty low latency, so presumably this will be based on a similar technology stack
sleepybrett · a year ago
I hoping my mom can share their phone with their laptop and i can sreenshare into her laptop to troubleshoot her phone.

Also I will use this often to approve okta 2factor requests.

Deleted Comment

djxfade · a year ago
You can already remote control an iPhone through FaceTime I think
crummy · a year ago
Oh shit - that's a great point, this will make remote tech support a lot better
gfaure · a year ago
This is occasionally quite useful. A few weeks ago, my phone's display went haywire, and the only way I could operate it to secure a backup was through the somewhat hidden mirroring functionality via QuickTime screen recording.
cassianoleal · a year ago
Goodbye having to lift my phone to use crappy enterprise MFA solutions.
wwalexander · a year ago
This used to exist via QuickTime, but I wasn’t able to get it working recently.

> I suspect it will only be useful for emergencies as latency will be terrible, though.

If they can make the macOS display feature in visionOS usable, I imagine they can make this work too.

navanchauhan · a year ago
I thought you could only do screen recording via QuickTime This mirroring feature actually lets you interact with the phone
dereg · a year ago
Can't wait to attempt GUI automation on my iPhone using the mac.
Detrytus · a year ago
The only use case for iPhone Mirroring I can think of is online shopping, when I'm trying to finalize transaction on my Mac, but then realize that I have to login to my banking app to confirm payment, and my iPhone is in another room... I guess you can call that "an emergency".

And of course, there are all those MFA apps which I need for work...

agloe_dreams · a year ago
I’m fully expecting this to just be a ported version of the Vision Pro’s feature that allows a Virtual Desktop of your Mac. In that context, it seemed to have extremely low latency.
jayd16 · a year ago
Why? It's not like remote desktop tech is new or anything.
m463 · a year ago
apple's mac to mac remote desktop is quite good.
xyst · a year ago
Wasn't this always possible though? Apple just turned what was once a development feature (Xcode) into a mainstream feature.
k8sToGo · a year ago
With WiFi 6e latency should be ok.
pazimzadeh · a year ago
this is needed on Vision Pro
agloe_dreams · a year ago
Which, weirdly, should be simple. The Vision Pro’s Mac mirroring is probably the exact same stack as the IPhone to Mac feature.
Reason077 · a year ago
I hate the notification centre on macOS. Don't see why I need to have notifications appear both on my iPhone and Mac, it's just an annoyance. I'd rather have the notification centre widgets (weather, clock, calendar, etc) always appear without notifications.

(Also, I miss the old widget Dashboard from old versions of macOS. Wish they'd bring that back with the new widgets tech).

nozzlegear · a year ago
> I'd rather have the notification centre widgets (weather, clock, calendar, etc) always appear without notifications.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but did you know you can pin widgets to your desktop in Sonoma? They don’t have to be tucked away in the Notification Center anymore; the entire bottom half of my second monitor is a big widget dashboard.

Reason077 · a year ago
That does sound like an improvement: in combination with the "Show Desktop" keyboard shortcut it will give quicker access to widgets than going through the clunky notification centre. And it will mean the widgets stay in one place and don't move around because some tiresome notifications got piled up above it.

However, it still doesn't sound as good as the old Dashboard, where widgets effectively got their own desktop (available for quick access at any time with a single keypress or touchpad gesture). This would also be more consistent with iOS, where you can just swipe to the left-most home screen to see a dashboard of widgets.

I like to maintain a "clean desktop" look so not sure if I love the idea of cluttering it up with widgets, but I'll give it a try!

setopt · a year ago
Not a huge fan either – mainly because it’s hard to interact with it purely via the keyboard.

Depending on the implementation, I am however looking forward to this. I need to use some systems that only provide 2FA via a mobile app (i.e. Push OTP), and having to reach for my phone during work hours is pretty bad for my productivity and flow.

(I really prefer TOTP, which I can just let 1Password handle…)

adamors · a year ago
Should have called it Sherlock as they seem to be Sherlocking a lot of apps. For instance I only use Fantastical because I can see my reminders with my events, I assume many people will also switch from a paid password manager to this as well.
woah · a year ago
I'm guessing (and Apple is probably betting) that far more new users of Passwords will be switching from not having used a password manager at all, not switching from a different password manager. I pay for Bitwarden, and will probably continue doing so because I can't be bothered to switch.
yunwal · a year ago
Also until Passwords is easily usable on non-Apple devices, there’ll be a place for password managers.
agent86 · a year ago
Math Notes certainly appears to be moving into Soulver/Numi territory. I'm a bit surprised by this one as while I personally love Soulver I didn't know how appealing it would be to Apple's overall user base.
JZL003 · a year ago
I was going to say too, I love literate-calc in org mode but it's all pretty niche and not a well developed set of sofwtare https://github.com/sulami/literate-calc-mode.el
runako · a year ago
Isn't the Passwords app essentially just existing features of the OSes extracted into an app? Or does it add new capabilities as well (other than obviously the Windows app)?
jerbear4328 · a year ago
The Windows app already existed, actually, as part of iCloud for Windows. It uses a Chrome extension for autofill. https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/set-up-icloud...
akagr · a year ago
I don’t see myself switching from 1password simply because I don’t think Apple passwords autofill will work natively with non-safari browsers or Linux, both of which I also use. Also, I find the handy 1password mini source pretty convenient.
ssbash · a year ago
Other browsers could add support for the native macOS password autofill apis (introduced back in 2020 in macOS Big Sur). So far both Chrome[1] and Firefox[2] have refused to add support.

[1] https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40744291#comment15

[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1650212

macintux · a year ago
I haven't determined yet whether the new Passwords app will support my killer feature for 1Password: non-password-stuff.

I keep family members' social security numbers, security questions and answers, passport numbers, etc in there, and I don't want to split that data between a passwords app & secure notes.

djxfade · a year ago
It already works for Chrome. Apple has an official extension. However, it’s a bit annoying since you need to authenticate each new browser session with MFA
makeitdouble · a year ago
Can you use an arbitrary account in the new password app ?

The screenshots had no indication of it, and it doesn't seem to have a web counterpart.

One of the major PITA for keychain was the association with your logged in AppleID. If it 's still that way, I don't see a real appeal for people who already went their way to pay for a full-fledge product.

Imagine killing your phone and asking a nearby friend to borrow theirs to quickly cancel an appointment to give you time to deal with it. That's the kind of situation that should be gracefully handled by a password manager service.

twixfel · a year ago
Honestly, I support it. I got burnt by Tijme Gommers selling Raivo to someone shady and getting all my passwords locked behind a subscription (and subsequently lost). I don't want to have to check once a day to see if my TOTP app has been sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords monetised.
amelius · a year ago
Isn't it illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products?
WillPostForFood · a year ago
It is not illegal to push your own products by bundling them with other products. Both MacOS and Windows have dozens or hundreds of their own bundled products.
macintux · a year ago
That can result in anti-trust action if you have a monopoly, which isn't true for Apple in the U.S. The EU has different rules which I don't pretend to understand.
adamors · a year ago
Well Apple has been doing this since forever

> Watson became very popular, and stayed that way right until Apple released Mac OS X 10.2 with Sherlock 3. In that release, Apple added just about everything Watson could do to Sherlock's own interface.

mpalmer · a year ago
They're not even charging for these things, what's the objection exactly?
bn-l · a year ago
Yeah I think that's what MS was doing before one of their antitrust lawsuits.
maronato · a year ago
My thought exactly. Today must’ve been a sad day for many app developers.
xnx · a year ago
I'm very productive in Windows, but Microsoft's recent behavior (jamming Windows full of Edge dark patterns and ads) and the improvement of window management in macOS tempts me to give it another try.
spartanatreyu · a year ago
I've used Windows solely for gaming and MacOS solely for MacOS/iOS development (work).

But now...

- Windows is full of AI/Adware bloat with more getting added every few months

- Linux's gaming/nvivia support has come such a long way that in some games it's beating Windows in some benchmarks now

- Apple's app store policies over the last 10 years have caused so many issues that our company is switching everything to webapps.

So I'll probably be switching from Windows+MacOS+Linux this year to just Linux next year.

Thinking of using the KDE or Cosmic desktop environments for personal computer and NixOS for development computer (just so I can test/rollback changes, and if the computer ever dies I can be up and running again in under an hour if I need to meet a deadline).

aurareturn · a year ago
You don’t have to use the App Store on MacOS.
htk · a year ago
I know your situation very well, I still develop a lot on Windows, but my main computer is a Mac. I find the hardware amazing, and the software a joy to use.

Windows 11 is behaving more and more like the viruses and adwares I spent so many years defending against.

lawlessone · a year ago
I just switched to Kubuntu.

Everything I want/need including games via steam run perfectly on it now. I can't see a reason to return to MS or got to Apple.

imbnwa · a year ago
Windows with multiple displays makes me tear my hair out, no matter what you do to the settings. I try to use Playnite on my TV in extended display mode and it is the most maddening thing.
kaba0 · a year ago
Windows 11 can’t even move a window in “overview mode” from one screen to another. Something single-men projects trivially do. It is absolutely useless, I rather use Gnome than that.
freediver · a year ago
A cool tidbit shown in one of the screenshots is that Apple Pay will be unlocked to other browsers. It is not clear whether they will need to be running WebKit or not for this to work, but looking forward to support in Orion.
lxgr · a year ago
Given that all relevant browsers on macOS either bring their own WebKit build or run another engine, system-WebKit only would be close to false advertising, so I really hope it's not.

I'm really looking forward to this – big fan of Apple Pay, but I'm not switching to Safari and rebuilding my shopping cart for non-logged-in purchases, and that's where it's arguably most useful.

azinman2 · a year ago
Chrome is not using system webkit.