I feel like the Apple we've seen since Jobs died is exactly what I would have expected if someone let the designers run the show without a strong product manager to reign them in: Gorgeous and mostly user-friendly products, but slightly too caught up in their own cleverness instead of the actual needs of real users.
I hope there's a chance to rectify that now - though I fear it won't happen until someone more visionary and less 'operations-focused' takes the helm of the company. Steve Blank did this excellent analysis and comparison between Balmer and Cook [0] - I hope there's a Satya Nadella in Apple's future too.
Apple has very skilled engineers, makes great strides in security, and I'm impressed by their hardware skills.
However, UX is their weakness. I don't know why we keep pretending that UX is Apple's strength. Have you used their window manager? Have you used their workspace implementation? Clearly they haven't used it themselves. Everything about the Mac UI is geared toward just having a pile of windows in one workspace.
Their window switcher by default requires switching between applications then switching between the windows of that application. Why?
Rearranging the contents of workspaces is a complicated dance of swipes and drags and other mouse-heavy movements. On a decent window manager, this can all be done with keyboard shortcuts.
They neglect power-users. They neglect usability for those with limited range of motion.
The way i see it is Apple provides simple defaults which work best for most/avarage users.
If you want something different/extra vs the default, you can customize some stuff within SystemPreferences (like keyboard shortcuts) or install a third party app (like BetterTouchTool, Contexts, Moom, Magnet, etc.)
Personally, i much prefer my Macbook's UX over my Windows10 UX.
I like how Window management works in macOS more than the other platforms! The touchpad gestures are great. Or, if you're using a mouse with extra buttons, one of the side buttons can get mapped to Mission Control, which works wonderfully!
I did prefer App Exposé in Snow Leopard, but ah well...
Agreed. The only thing that mitigated this is that larger screens naturally made us more prone to having a bunch of windows open on a screen. Back in the 1024x768 days, not being able to maximize a window on Mac was ridiculous. "Full screen" view is/was a terrible "solution" to this.
The fact that windows can't be "snapped" like on Windows is so frustrating. (Yes, I know there are 3rd party apps for this.)
Not a native solution but very lightweight and solves a lot of your issues.
And if you want something extremely powerful and robust, check out Hammerspoon. Much more complicated setup but basically turns the MacOS window manager into a proper tiling wm.
I really recommend Amethyst, which is an xmonad-like tiling window manager for OSX. It's still not as configurable as xmonad, but certainly nicer for me than the default WM:
I am not anymore the Macbook Pro is a huge disappointment. iCloud runs on Google Cloud because Apple thought the cloud was a feature. Apple should have bought Dropbox instead of having to rely on Google for their Cloud offering especially since they are talking about being a service company instead of a product company.
Operations focused could be good. Some of the older iPhones are better IMHO. Small enough to use 1 handed, headphone port, battery could be improved while keeping form factor.
An operations person would see that as a market that will migrate to Android if the need is not met.
With the iPhone X Apple put serious R&D into a display that folds back on itself for the sole reason that a phone is more ascetically pleasing when the boarders are symmetrical. Even after a year and a half every phone except the iPhone has an asymmetrical chin. Will Apple still be able to make decisions like that without Ive in a leadership position? For Apple's sake I really hope so.
Notch? What notch? I have an iPhone X and mine has ears which extend the display up into the top of the phone where the camera is placed to get my status bar out of the screen. Brilliant! I say.
I don't know that I agree with that considering the S10+ has what amounts to a hole in the top right corner. The notch isn't great but I actually think I prefer seeing those 2 options side by side.
I prefer the notch and no chin. These design decisions are difficult but ultimately the iPhone X was an impressive phone . The S10 is a nice phone too, to me both look good in the photo. Jony Ive has contributed great work to the design of mobile / personal computing products. Today I smile walking into a tech store and ooogling at the surface book, XPS and Lenovo. Peer pressure has improved the design across the board. I’m a 20+ year apple customer and recently my 2 year old mbp went in for some restoration work. First time i’ve had to use Applecare. For a company like Apple outsourcing design seems similar and counter intuitive however from an objective perspective I question design choices. My 2012 MBP has a tidier appearance to my 2017 MBP which requires many dongles and adapters. To me that is a bad design. So it might be that Jony is more responsible for design problems and this is it for Apple.
it's a funny chain of consequences. put a notch, now the bottom border is too thick, so you thin it up with a very expensive manufacturing process. if you had not a notch there, there would have not been a need to move away the chin to maintain visual symmetry.
anyway even with most manufacturer producing notch design, I still find no benefit that entices me to move to a notch model for a feature that adds a total of 44 pixels rows at twice the selling cost to maintain visual border symmetry, but I understand there are people obsessed with aesthetics that are willing to part a sizeable amount of money for a symmetrical bezel.
It appears I'm just not the target audience of apple anymore.
How about decisions like removing the headphone jacks from the company's most popular music players, the very devices with which people are supposed consume the media-centric services that Tim Cook and analysts say are the future of Apple?
Apple manufactures bluetooth headphones also [0] .. do the math. The really popular Beats headphones for example are made by Apple indirectly. By cutting off the headphone connection, they are encouraging people to buy new products instead of using old and proven technologies.
Apple has done this all the time during their history, eg. look at the whole adapter situation where you just have to buy extra hardware to connect your new device to anything.
This decision was promptly copied by every other major phone manufacturer, for the same reasons Apple made the decision. The 3.5mm jack is obsolete and getting rid of it enables a better, tougher device which is more waterproof.
I don't think Ive departing from Apple would be entirely a bad thing, though. Most of Apple's really great designs are thanks to Jony, but some of their really stupid ones (e.g the horrible butterfly keyboards) have his fingerprint on them too.
I have never heard of nor noticed the chin difference of iPhones before. I don't see how the loss of attention to detail at that expense would materially impact Apple, except maybe for the better.
I often think with apple people either get what they care about or they don’t.
I own the most recent iPad and iPad mini (on that now) and I like both but neither more than my Nokia 6.1.
All three are functional devices that do what I need with little to no fuss.
The tiny aesthetic differences between them are lost on me or more accurately are irrelevant to me.
Which is why I don’t have an iPhone, for tablets apple are hands down the best but for my phone needs a Nokia running stock android at one fifth the price does 99% of what I care about.
I have zero loyalty to a brand or a platform, I use whatever works for me at the time I guess.
Samsung is contracted for the manufacturing but that doesn't mean Apple didn't come up with large portions of the design or otherwise find and support the project
I have literally never noticed that. If this is what the differences between phones have come to today then to me it seems like there isn't really anything to write home about anymore and the market is completely saturated.
Love them of hate them, Apple has always spent a lot of attention to details in their products.
I myself like them more just because of their manufacturing processes. It’s like those YouTube channels that have videos of industrial machinery showing how tomatoes are sorted or paper clips are bent.
given their recent focus on being a services/media company, it wouldn't surprise me if they moved out of hardware entirely at some point in the future.
They became the most valuable company in the world by selling hardware. What on earth would possess them to get out of that incredibly lucrative market in which they have an unparalleled privileged position??
This is mistaken, Apple sells devices and the software comes with; it’s a key selling point. Yes they expanded their services sector, because product is getting hard to push — but it will always be the core business.
I think you're more right than people are giving credit for. They clearly haven't cared much about their hardware with any true innovation for a long time.
It's unlikely they will move out of the market which gives them the most recognition as a brand and accounts for a disproportionately high % of their revenue.
The services are to sell more to the people in their hardware ecosystem.
Their "focus" in services/media is because the # of iphone customers has plateaud, so now they are now growing by selling more to the same customers, not selling the same to more customers.
Personally, I think focus should be on battery life improvement, app management UX, privacy (for example, to this day I can't turn off ALL notifications) etc. I would take 20% thicker iPhone for 20% better battery life and headphone jack any day. Cosmetic changes and thinness-for-thinness sake are worthless.
You would but vast majority of Apple customers would not. There are often calls to "vote with your wallet" and that's what people do. This is why we have no jack and thin phones.
I got one of these fucking things, and I noticed my thumb feels strained when I use my phone. It's because my thumb has to bend down a lot further to reach the bottom of the "chin" all the time.
I used to love my mac book pro. Sadly, it is not the same device which it used to be. The quest to make it thinner has actually made it a substandard machine. I feel Apple has lost a lot of developer love and brand capital since Jobs. I am hoping things would improve on the product front. Not all devs live in the US. For devs in developing countries, a mac book pro is a serious investment. We want a machine which is robust and long-lasting.
If things continue they way they have in last few years my next machine will not be a mac book.
Everyone should watch the Louis Rossmann channel before lionizing, much less even saying anything good about modern MBP's they don't seem to understand what's been lost and what sucks. It's not been a long-lasting product for at least 5 years:
- the batteries are glued in, making them very difficult to change
- there's no locking slot
- GPU goes out
- the unencapsulated (motherboard) is very susceptible to any humidity, which leads to corrosion
- the JTAG shorts out traces
- the keyboards are crap: noisy, fragile and have to be ripped out violently with pliers
- display cable goes out
- no availability of official replacement parts
- no official component-level repair leading to unnecessary e-waste and unnecessary charges
- no longer has MagSafe
- thin, bendable and fragile
- extremely overpriced
- overcharged for repairs
- denied data recovery when it's possible
- community of unrealistic, brainwashed, tribalist fans who lack perspective and criticism
I have a Lenovo T480 which is 10x better than a T490. Snag one while you can, because it's totally ruined in the name of drinking Johnny's brand of Jonestown KoolAid.
I was part of that unrealistic, brainwashed, tribalist community for many years. Except not for apple. For PC. I switched over to a mbp this past year after having used countless different PC laptops over the past ten years, and my god, my mbp just feels so much better than my previous laptops in so many ways. Yes there are shortcomings, but the overall user experience is nothing to gloss over.
"- community of unrealistic, brainwashed, tribalist fans who lack perspective and criticism"
Why do you feel the urge to insult those that do not see the world like you do?
You call them "unrealistic", so it makes you fell realistic.
"brainwashed" so it makes you feel clear minded.
"tribalist" so it makes you feel individually intelligent.
"lack perspective", so you believe you have perspective.
The fact is that some of these people are really smarter than you are and happier and more fulfilled than you are. And have way more money than you have. Some of them will be stupid, but not all like you believe.
These people have real reasons to choose an Apple product and they are as valid as your reasons.
While everything you say is true, the fact is that these people give them a different value that you do. I have a friend that has a company and earns 2000 dollars everyday, does he cares about an overprice laptop? Not really, he cares about time, and interruptions(he had a Windows laptop that used to interrupt him for hours at the worst possible time), he cares about weight, and malware installed by default that you could not uninstall.
Right now I am criticizing your attitude. How do you respond to it is a way to measure your level of "handling criticism ability" that you implicitly presume of.
But it does feels different, doen't it? Criticize others is so easy.
> I have a Lenovo T480 which is 10x better than a T490. Snag one while you can...
The T490 is a regression, I agree, but the upcoming Lenovo P53 looks to be a great machine. It has almost same chassis (just a couple improved ports) as the P52, which is (IMO) superior to the T480. And you can get it with Linux installed at the factory!
There seems to be a consistent slide, where once-venerable machines like the Macbook "Pro", Lenovo T-series, HP Elitebook etc. get slimmed and down-spec'ed to expand the market to more buyers.
Hopefully the Apple can now produce a new top-end product line, the "Macbook Actually For Professionals Again" or something like that. Then they could continue marketing to and designing for students and media consumers with the MBP, and release better hardware for those who need it.
I brought in my phone for a warranty exchange when the charging port was damaged. Phone at 7% without the ability to charge, I was told emailing photos to myself was the only option and was prodded to use the cloud storage in the future.
It’s unfortunate I wasn’t in the position to leave without a new phone. Years of photos were lost that day due to this lack of option and my own failure to back up locally.
Louis Rossmann and his cult followers - they seem to feed on the righteousness cause that Rossmann has cultivated over the years. His rants do have truth but the way he conveys is emotion driven and designed to lure people into this cult of Apple haters.
There is one thing to criticize Apple on objective basis and another to develop a deep sense of hatred, vulgar insults, angry rants, personal attacks and fostering despicable contemptful culture with an emotional agenda. He has built a huge community of people that love watching him rant just about anything.
May be its just me but I don't enjoy this type of content even if I agree with their general assessment or opinions.
That said, I do like what he is doing for Right-To-Repair movement along with folks from iFixit and EFF.
My MBP is the best machine I've ever owned. I bought it brand new in 2015 and it is still just as good as the day I got it. Your comparison is unfair given that there have been excellent machines in the past 5 years but they lost focus in the past 3 years.
Unfortunately, I can't use a laptop which has a joystick in the middle of the keyboard. Until they stop that I'll have to go dell xps13 when my mbp-2014 dies.
MBP was rarely the best option for most developers, just the coolest one or they were succumbing to peer pressure, any other explanation has always been inexplicable.
Its unix with a generally nicer/hassle-free ux and better arbitrary device support... its utility for development seems fairly obvious to me. The only major factors are price and recently ports and physical reliability.
Hell, what are your alternatives? Linux on laptops is broadly a mess until fairly recently... and Windows is Windows.
So far it's been the best option for me when it comes to getting work done efficiently without banging my head against a wall. What would you recommend?
Most of the developers I know have no shame and can't be peer pressured, and still often use MacBooks.
Given his penchant for thinness over function, I hope this means we can have a thicker pro laptop again, with all the ports back and a more robust keyboard.
It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think, I and I know many of my peers are of the exact opposite opinion. I like the move to usb-c, I like the new keyboard, I don’t mind (but also don’t really use) the Touch Bar but I can’t live without Touch ID at this point. The big trackpad is magical to me, and the thickness and weight of the 13” is just right. I have an older MBP as well, 2013 maybe, and it’s lovely too but it feels like an old truck next to my sleek sports car that is my 2016 MBP.
I for one would be sad if they went back on some of the supposedly bold moves they’ve pulled, to be honest. The only thing I wish is that they’d kill that silly lightning connector for the phones so I could have usb-c goodness there too!
I guess that’s just design for ya – it’s often divisive, especially if decisive.
Nothing wrong with USB-C and the big trackpad is fine too, and I would love to have touchID on my 2015MBP. But getting rid of mag power and the USB-A ports, HDMI port, and SD card slot was a big step back.
Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop, but if you talk to anyone who does, they will tell you how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen.
And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A.
USB-C is good, when Thunderbolt is integrated. I'm fine with getting rid of everything else. I have a cheapo HDMI adapter that works great.
But putting the ports millimeters apart on the side of a computer that offers at least nine inches of space is idiotic: https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg
The new keyboard is insufferable; you might as well just go to a membrane keyboard at this point. The deletion of a dozen keys for the sake of the emoji bar is embarrassing, especially on a "pro" computer. Now programmers are supposed to step through code with a featureless strip that goes to sleep every few seconds? The crowning offense is not even OFFERING the option of real keys, when the "consumer" Air has them.
The big trackpad is a mistake because the heels of your hands are in contact with it all the time, necessitating who knows how much spurious-touch-rejection logic that simply fails occasionally and sends your cursor to some other part of the screen or document... or your hand simply executes an unintended click or right-click.
Another baffling failure: Why doesn't the Pencil work on those giant touchpads? Now THAT would be useful!
Yes, it's definitely divisive. In my case, I do need a reliable keyboard, I do not have a single USB-C device around me that I can connect (while having literally tens of USB-A devices), I do not need or want the touchbar, I want the function keys, and I don't mind the extra thickness. The new macbooks make all the wrong compromises for me.
So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line?
I hate the fact that I am reduced to living in fear of what will be taken away the next time they present a computer. I find it bizarre that we have pretty much accepted that we need to give something up for the "new thin and light", and we just wonder what it's going to be and explain to ourselves how we didn't really need all those USB ports or headphone ports after all.
Also, magsafe saved my bacon many times, and I'm looking at a USB-C connector on my wife's laptop and its so worn out that the plug is almost falling out. Magsafe was a much better solution.
Yeah the new keyboard is great. I love how they finally got the up and down arrow keys merged into a single key. And how the Esc/F-keys are now impossible to touchtype. The difference between me using the computer and my cat sitting on it is now approaching zero and while for me this is detrimental and potentially career-ending, it is a massive step forward for cats.
That's funny, because nearly all the Apple fans I know (myself included) are extremely jaded with their laptops since the touchbar model came out. Throwing out the ports and making the keyboard awful in favor of becoming thinner doesn't exactly read as a "Pro" product to me.
I cannot imagine defending the move to 100% usb-c ports. An iphone out of the box cannot be connected to a new mac laptop. It's complete insanity. The rest of the world isn't there yet. Every single person I know who owns a usb-c mac laptop owns a $100 dongle that they carry everywhere with them.
For me being able to plug in USB type-A is a non-negotiable part of using a laptop still, 4 years after the move. Same with HDMI. I also regularly plug SD cards in.
It doesn't make the laptop thinner, it makes it bulkier because the adapter is a necessity.
USB-C is great. Keyboard is horrible. I'd prefer the last gen trackpad - the new one is needlessly silly and easy to bump by accident. Touchbar is garbage and needs to go, Touch ID is great.
Please give me back an sdcard reader at minimum. VGA port is probably too much to ask for but literally every conference room on the planet still has that as their default with other options being a bonus and I'm sick of accidentally leaving my adapters behind.
Apple fan for 30+ years, been using them professionally since they switched to unix under the hood. Swapped my 2014 macbook out for a 2018 model. It is terrible in so many ways. Three months ago I switched to a Dell running Ubuntu, and haven't been this happy since the 2014 macbook ;)
The keyboard is the worst keyboard I've used in at least 15 years, the giant touchpad pisses me off constantly with no benefit, the OS just copies other people now, the touchbar is the least offensive thing but still stupid, and the loss of the magsafe is a bummer. Huge disappointment.
But, that's ok, turns out Ubuntu as a desktop is amazing, and so I'm really happy with the switch!
Every professional developer I know that has a mac is refusing to switch away from their previous model (or older) macbook.
I would like to see exactly zero regression from the current design.
I think there is a very tiny but vocal minority, particularly in the tech community, who have issues with it. Most people have few complaints if you are talking about the most recent keyboard. It may still have some room for improvement but the last couple generations of butterfly keyboard have improved each step of the way.
I'm the same way and most of the people I know IRL are the same way. It seems like it's only online that I hear people complain about the keyboard and the lack of ports. The biggest complaint online that I see is the physical escape key (and I'm even a developer and don't care about it) and I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint.
My experience with usb c is from people in my lab with usb c only MacBooks, looking to move files and borrow one of our extra drives, realize they don’t have the ubiquitous usb a and look for other solutions. Or trying to plug into a projector that has hdmi and 6 adapters but no usb c yet, then trying to get their presentation to another notebook..
I’ll keep my multi port Mac Pro till it falls apart at this point
A Pro device should be like a truck, not a sleek sports car.
Having ports available when you need them, not running out of battery, having a keyboard optimised for comfort and accuracy, and having a screen that is visible in all lighting conditions are core requirements for a device that is there to enable you do work. Most changes to the MacBook Pro have been driven by aesthetics and minimalism.
The boldest move at the moment would be "We believe that thinness for the sake of it, is dead as a trend, today we are announcing a new direction that will see us build beautiful products that are nonetheless expandable, repairable, green"
My only beef with usb-c is that there doesn't seem to exist a hub that offers multiple usb-c ports with via a single usb-c port. Until those are mainstream, I feel that usb-c is inferior to a/b.
"Does the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar improve your workflow?" 38% say "No, I only use it for function keys it replaced", 23% say "Waiting for more app/function support", 21% say "Yes, it improves my workflow", 16% say "Other". https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/
Twitter poll: "Just out of interest, with @marcoarment in mind, does anybody actually like the Touch Bar of the new MacBook Pro?" "With over 1,000 responses, the results were effectively 50-50." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-to...
What does the thinness of the device actually get you though? I know most very thin laptops are no lighter than my much thicker x230, but come with way less expandability, crummier keyboard, and less ports. What does the thinness get you when they weight the same?
I'm with you. I'm mildly annoyed with the TouchBar, but willing to accept it for Touch ID, and as for the rest - I'm not finding it nearly as grating as I thought I would, and a worthwhile sacrifice for the lower weight.
As the owner of a 15”, I agree on all points but one. I would sacrifice a little thinness for more battery life and repair ability. Love the keyboard, love the track pad, fine with usb c, meh on Touch Bar.
The top comment on this thread is asking for the ports back. The majority has spoken.
My workstations have become a dumpster fire of dongles and I constantly have to unplug something to use the ports for something else. The previous model was so much better.
I left Apple years ago because of this. Extremes are never good. Hardware was getting thin and UI flat for the sake of looking pretty to the masses. And from what I see things got a bit worse.
I actually prefer the aesthetics of early MacBook / MacBook Pro unibody and iPhone SE. And they were a pleasure to use. Good key travel and easy to hold with one hand, respectively.
I hope there is a bit of function re-introduced into the design equation, so that products become more balanced.
I have nothing but pure unadulterated love for my iPhone SE. I can’t imagine myself with a bigger phone and I’m just waiting for them to make a similar new model. Sometimes I wonder if they will though.
I feel the same way about pre Touch Bar MacBooks - not that I have anything against Touch Bar (I think it’s fine and should probably be a lot more hackable) but the new keyboard just causes me cramps and finger pain after very little time. The old keyboards were so so good. Tactile, clicky and solid.
My next Mac after my 2013 MacBook Pro finally kicks it will probably be a 2014-2015 MacBook Pro if I can find one. I was issued a brand new MacBook Pro for work and I hate it. Hate the Touch Bar and keyboard and only liked using it docked to a keyboard and external displays.
I had company over last night, and brought out my iPhone 4S. I have my current 128GB SE, and we compared them to the iPhone 8 (which the owner’s children referred to as a small phone).
4S was the pinnacle of miniaturization tech. The SE screensize would fit in the 4S form-factor.
Most popular comment was “I can fit this in my pocket.”
I'm not sure how much he actually did versus just being the spokesperson, but my recollection is that they pushed him to the front around the release of iOS7, the announcement for which was when all Apple's "bold" moves, in both software design and hardware form vs. function trade-offs, started making me do quizzical-german-shephard.jpg several times at each product reveal event. I'm hoping his influence was, in fact, major and that he'll have even less future influence than the announcement implies, so maybe they'll change course.
One can hope, but I’m sure his decisions were not based off design quirkiness entirely. Apple must have a department that shows people want thinner and thinner laptops and that’s what they aim for. Right?
I, too, would like the option of a thicker laptop and my beloved magnetic break-away power connector. That has saved my bacon many times when my foot caught the cord. I assume that wold permit a thicker battery with a longer lifetime...
If he took away MagSafe I couldn't be happier he's gone. I still think it's a bold move by Apple if it was voluntary, they have so much to lose if their new design deviates from the old significantly even if it doesn't they're unlikely to gain much as it's probably near impossible to find a Steve Job replacement when it comes to design.
I don't get why you'd bother when you can get a better machine for half the cost. Install Linux on it if you don't like Windows. Unless you're hired to work on some Mac-exclusive software and it's a work laptop I just don't get why anyone would buy a Mac laptop when they're so objectively overpriced and underfeatured.
Objectively is a hard claim when it comes to an integration of software and hardware. What is the integration of hardware and software worth to any particular person? What is Apple doubling down on privacy worth to another one?
Current MBP hardware is nothing exciting to me. But my previous MBP was lasted me 2009 to 2016 I believe, with a few upgrades. And I like the OS.
I don't mind working in Linux or Windows but I prefer a lot of things about the Mac.
A lot of conveniences, and things that I feel have better execution. Rather predictably decent performance and good integration between software and hardware. That sort of thing.
I was OK with USB-C as it matches my Android phone and the iPad Pro. I'm down to a single charger for travel. It has drawbacks but makes a bit of sense. Not a fan of the new keyboards, really don't like the Touchbar. But overall I'm still fairly happy.
So that's why I, personally, bother. I care about whether they improve it because in spite of the Mac as a platform not hitting the sweets sports as well as previously for me it is still worth the premium they charge. To me.
I consider Macs expensive, I'm not sure that I consider them overpriced. Under-featured I'd dismiss out of hand, I'm sure they could be to some but it really depends on what you are looking at.
If this means a more functional bias to future hardware designs that could be good but the design of the hardware is really a huge selling point for me at least with the phones. I use my iPhone X without a case and marvel even a year after buying it at its design almost everytime I pick it up.
I absolutely love the current MacBook Pro as it is, keyboard, Touch Bar and all. The only changes I would wish for are an OLED/better screen with a higher native resolution, and perhaps make it even lighter. :)
I may be in a minority, but I find the 2013 etc. Macbooks way too thick for my tastes. 2015 Macbooks Pro seem like the sweet spot. Although I love the thinness of 2016+ Macbooks also.
I love the thin design. I'll take a single USB-C port over multiple ports any day. (and yes, I do use an external monitor, which is a USB hub, and a 1Gbps ethernet dongle)
And talk about the new $6000 Mac Pro which got memed a lot because of its astounding similarity to a grater. Although, I know this is not going to ruin Ive's legacy cause he's also been responsible for some great designs like iPhone 4 and aluminum MBP.
update:
I know it was designed like that due to air flow considerations. I just pointed out the fact that it seems the design team didn't get input from others, who IMO would've mentioned the similarity sooner, possibly helping Apple alter the design.
People here have been complaining about how Apple has prioritized aesthetics over functionality. It's worth taking a different stance and criticize Apple's choice of functionality over aesthetics in Mac Pro design.
As a person with knowledge of machining and who is rather technical, the "grater" design is honestly pretty appealing to me- I wish the New Pro's had filters, but that design looks cool.
It does, at least, look better than the last PC I built.
> I just pointed out the fact that it seems the design team didn't get input from others, who IMO would've mentioned the similarity sooner, possibly helping Apple alter the design.
????
The model before the "trashcan" was popularly called the cheese grater for a long time, so I'm sure they were well aware of the resemblance already.
Well they aren’t losing 100% of him since they are still able to retain his services. If this price movement was due to his departure it would indicate he has an even higher valuation.
But the stock dropped 1% in the seconds after the announcement. This isn’t a 1% drop over the entire day; it’s a 1% drop in 30 seconds after the market has closed. I think it’s safe to say the market values Ive’s contribution to Apple at $9b
He’s making more money at Apple than he will leading his own design agency.
This makes me think that he no longer finds his work compelling at Apple. Or Apple decided it’s time for a new leader, but wants things to have a soft landing.
Since he was the Chief Design Officer at Apple, responsible for all design, I imagine his role came with a lot of management overhead. I'd wager a guess that maybe he wanted to ditch the corporate overhead (and spend more time directly working on design), and as a bonus he'll get to take on a wider range of projects. Also possible that he wanted to go back to the UK and that his firm will be located there.
From Daring Fireball speculation his move to Chief Design Officer was already a move for him to be distanced from day to day design. Sort of a soft firing already, but by moving him up.
I think it's more likely that he wants to be able to have more input on projects outside of Apple and Apple aren't happy with design consultancy being part of their business. So the obvious resolution is to let him be independent, safe in the knowledge that Apple will always have enough cash to pay whatever it takes to get him to work on their projects.
I think this is good for Apple, I found that I was not impressed or excited about his work after Steve Jobs wasn't there to help him refine his instincts any longer.
Everything he did after that just seemed ... uninspired.
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I hope there's a chance to rectify that now - though I fear it won't happen until someone more visionary and less 'operations-focused' takes the helm of the company. Steve Blank did this excellent analysis and comparison between Balmer and Cook [0] - I hope there's a Satya Nadella in Apple's future too.
[0] https://steveblank.com/2016/10/24/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ball...
However, UX is their weakness. I don't know why we keep pretending that UX is Apple's strength. Have you used their window manager? Have you used their workspace implementation? Clearly they haven't used it themselves. Everything about the Mac UI is geared toward just having a pile of windows in one workspace.
Their window switcher by default requires switching between applications then switching between the windows of that application. Why?
Rearranging the contents of workspaces is a complicated dance of swipes and drags and other mouse-heavy movements. On a decent window manager, this can all be done with keyboard shortcuts.
They neglect power-users. They neglect usability for those with limited range of motion.
The way i see it is Apple provides simple defaults which work best for most/avarage users.
If you want something different/extra vs the default, you can customize some stuff within SystemPreferences (like keyboard shortcuts) or install a third party app (like BetterTouchTool, Contexts, Moom, Magnet, etc.)
Personally, i much prefer my Macbook's UX over my Windows10 UX.
I did prefer App Exposé in Snow Leopard, but ah well...
The fact that windows can't be "snapped" like on Windows is so frustrating. (Yes, I know there are 3rd party apps for this.)
Really? When I use four fingers and swipe up (instead of down), I see windows from all applications and can switch between them
Not a native solution but very lightweight and solves a lot of your issues.
And if you want something extremely powerful and robust, check out Hammerspoon. Much more complicated setup but basically turns the MacOS window manager into a proper tiling wm.
https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst
I am not anymore the Macbook Pro is a huge disappointment. iCloud runs on Google Cloud because Apple thought the cloud was a feature. Apple should have bought Dropbox instead of having to rely on Google for their Cloud offering especially since they are talking about being a service company instead of a product company.
[Edit] Never mind, I see others volunteered info. Having come from Windows, I thought I was just stuck with the way things were. Fixing this today!
This is so true. Hence the dongle epidemic.
An operations person would see that as a market that will migrate to Android if the need is not met.
It's subjective of course, but strictly looking at display & bezels the "which is more aesthetically pleasing" question is not even close
[0] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NG5Wd9Px40o/maxresdefault.jpg
anyway even with most manufacturer producing notch design, I still find no benefit that entices me to move to a notch model for a feature that adds a total of 44 pixels rows at twice the selling cost to maintain visual border symmetry, but I understand there are people obsessed with aesthetics that are willing to part a sizeable amount of money for a symmetrical bezel.
It appears I'm just not the target audience of apple anymore.
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For Apple's and consumers' sake, I hope NOT.
Apple has done this all the time during their history, eg. look at the whole adapter situation where you just have to buy extra hardware to connect your new device to anything.
[0] "Beats Electronics LLC is a subsidiary of Apple Inc." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beats_Electronics)
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I own the most recent iPad and iPad mini (on that now) and I like both but neither more than my Nokia 6.1.
All three are functional devices that do what I need with little to no fuss.
The tiny aesthetic differences between them are lost on me or more accurately are irrelevant to me.
Which is why I don’t have an iPhone, for tablets apple are hands down the best but for my phone needs a Nokia running stock android at one fifth the price does 99% of what I care about.
I have zero loyalty to a brand or a platform, I use whatever works for me at the time I guess.
You're kidding right?. Apple put so much serious R&D into the display that they asked Samsung to create it.
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I myself like them more just because of their manufacturing processes. It’s like those YouTube channels that have videos of industrial machinery showing how tomatoes are sorted or paper clips are bent.
boarder: n. One who pays a stipulated sum in return for regular meals or for meals and lodging.
Dead Comment
Their "focus" in services/media is because the # of iphone customers has plateaud, so now they are now growing by selling more to the same customers, not selling the same to more customers.
So much for "design is how it works", huh Steve?
- the batteries are glued in, making them very difficult to change
- there's no locking slot
- GPU goes out
- the unencapsulated (motherboard) is very susceptible to any humidity, which leads to corrosion
- the JTAG shorts out traces
- the keyboards are crap: noisy, fragile and have to be ripped out violently with pliers
- display cable goes out
- no availability of official replacement parts
- no official component-level repair leading to unnecessary e-waste and unnecessary charges
- no longer has MagSafe
- thin, bendable and fragile
- extremely overpriced
- overcharged for repairs
- denied data recovery when it's possible
- community of unrealistic, brainwashed, tribalist fans who lack perspective and criticism
I have a Lenovo T480 which is 10x better than a T490. Snag one while you can, because it's totally ruined in the name of drinking Johnny's brand of Jonestown KoolAid.
Why do you feel the urge to insult those that do not see the world like you do?
You call them "unrealistic", so it makes you fell realistic. "brainwashed" so it makes you feel clear minded. "tribalist" so it makes you feel individually intelligent. "lack perspective", so you believe you have perspective.
The fact is that some of these people are really smarter than you are and happier and more fulfilled than you are. And have way more money than you have. Some of them will be stupid, but not all like you believe.
These people have real reasons to choose an Apple product and they are as valid as your reasons.
While everything you say is true, the fact is that these people give them a different value that you do. I have a friend that has a company and earns 2000 dollars everyday, does he cares about an overprice laptop? Not really, he cares about time, and interruptions(he had a Windows laptop that used to interrupt him for hours at the worst possible time), he cares about weight, and malware installed by default that you could not uninstall.
Right now I am criticizing your attitude. How do you respond to it is a way to measure your level of "handling criticism ability" that you implicitly presume of.
But it does feels different, doen't it? Criticize others is so easy.
Shrug. I prefer MacBooks because the trackpads are better, and trackpad usability is more important to me than the other stuff.
The T490 is a regression, I agree, but the upcoming Lenovo P53 looks to be a great machine. It has almost same chassis (just a couple improved ports) as the P52, which is (IMO) superior to the T480. And you can get it with Linux installed at the factory!
There seems to be a consistent slide, where once-venerable machines like the Macbook "Pro", Lenovo T-series, HP Elitebook etc. get slimmed and down-spec'ed to expand the market to more buyers.
Hopefully the Apple can now produce a new top-end product line, the "Macbook Actually For Professionals Again" or something like that. Then they could continue marketing to and designing for students and media consumers with the MBP, and release better hardware for those who need it.
This one hits close to home.
I brought in my phone for a warranty exchange when the charging port was damaged. Phone at 7% without the ability to charge, I was told emailing photos to myself was the only option and was prodded to use the cloud storage in the future.
It’s unfortunate I wasn’t in the position to leave without a new phone. Years of photos were lost that day due to this lack of option and my own failure to back up locally.
There is one thing to criticize Apple on objective basis and another to develop a deep sense of hatred, vulgar insults, angry rants, personal attacks and fostering despicable contemptful culture with an emotional agenda. He has built a huge community of people that love watching him rant just about anything.
May be its just me but I don't enjoy this type of content even if I agree with their general assessment or opinions.
That said, I do like what he is doing for Right-To-Repair movement along with folks from iFixit and EFF.
Hell, what are your alternatives? Linux on laptops is broadly a mess until fairly recently... and Windows is Windows.
Most of the developers I know have no shame and can't be peer pressured, and still often use MacBooks.
I for one would be sad if they went back on some of the supposedly bold moves they’ve pulled, to be honest. The only thing I wish is that they’d kill that silly lightning connector for the phones so I could have usb-c goodness there too!
I guess that’s just design for ya – it’s often divisive, especially if decisive.
Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop, but if you talk to anyone who does, they will tell you how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen.
And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A.
But putting the ports millimeters apart on the side of a computer that offers at least nine inches of space is idiotic: https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg
The new keyboard is insufferable; you might as well just go to a membrane keyboard at this point. The deletion of a dozen keys for the sake of the emoji bar is embarrassing, especially on a "pro" computer. Now programmers are supposed to step through code with a featureless strip that goes to sleep every few seconds? The crowning offense is not even OFFERING the option of real keys, when the "consumer" Air has them.
The big trackpad is a mistake because the heels of your hands are in contact with it all the time, necessitating who knows how much spurious-touch-rejection logic that simply fails occasionally and sends your cursor to some other part of the screen or document... or your hand simply executes an unintended click or right-click.
Another baffling failure: Why doesn't the Pencil work on those giant touchpads? Now THAT would be useful!
So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line?
I hate the fact that I am reduced to living in fear of what will be taken away the next time they present a computer. I find it bizarre that we have pretty much accepted that we need to give something up for the "new thin and light", and we just wonder what it's going to be and explain to ourselves how we didn't really need all those USB ports or headphone ports after all.
Also, magsafe saved my bacon many times, and I'm looking at a USB-C connector on my wife's laptop and its so worn out that the plug is almost falling out. Magsafe was a much better solution.
This is the reckoning. I’m glad they had the courage to hold the leader responsible.
For me being able to plug in USB type-A is a non-negotiable part of using a laptop still, 4 years after the move. Same with HDMI. I also regularly plug SD cards in.
It doesn't make the laptop thinner, it makes it bulkier because the adapter is a necessity.
I actually mind the touch bar, because I like having actual keys for brightness adjusment, keyboard backlight, and volume.
Please give me back an sdcard reader at minimum. VGA port is probably too much to ask for but literally every conference room on the planet still has that as their default with other options being a bonus and I'm sick of accidentally leaving my adapters behind.
The keyboard is the worst keyboard I've used in at least 15 years, the giant touchpad pisses me off constantly with no benefit, the OS just copies other people now, the touchbar is the least offensive thing but still stupid, and the loss of the magsafe is a bummer. Huge disappointment.
But, that's ok, turns out Ubuntu as a desktop is amazing, and so I'm really happy with the switch!
Every professional developer I know that has a mac is refusing to switch away from their previous model (or older) macbook.
I think there is a very tiny but vocal minority, particularly in the tech community, who have issues with it. Most people have few complaints if you are talking about the most recent keyboard. It may still have some room for improvement but the last couple generations of butterfly keyboard have improved each step of the way.
I’ll keep my multi port Mac Pro till it falls apart at this point
Having ports available when you need them, not running out of battery, having a keyboard optimised for comfort and accuracy, and having a screen that is visible in all lighting conditions are core requirements for a device that is there to enable you do work. Most changes to the MacBook Pro have been driven by aesthetics and minimalism.
"Is the Touch Bar a gimmick?" Among those who own it, 72% say "yes". https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/
"Does the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar improve your workflow?" 38% say "No, I only use it for function keys it replaced", 23% say "Waiting for more app/function support", 21% say "Yes, it improves my workflow", 16% say "Other". https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/
Twitter poll: "Just out of interest, with @marcoarment in mind, does anybody actually like the Touch Bar of the new MacBook Pro?" "With over 1,000 responses, the results were effectively 50-50." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-to...
I can get with the rest but stating that is absolute insanity to me. It has something like a 10-20% failure rate on a medium timeline.
The macbook should be closer to the current pro, rather than this basically an air/but not an air thing they have going on.
The pro should be for actual professionals, not for anyone that wants a laptop with more than just 2 cores.
Gruber put it rather succinctly: "These keyboards are the biggest mistake in Apple’s history." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/04/26/johnston-macboo...
There has certainly been more criticism than praise for the butterfly keyboard:
The New MacBook Keyboard is Ruining My Life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is...
Unreliable MacBook Pro Keyboards https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/10/18/unreliable-macbook-pro-ke...
The 2018 MacBook Keyboards Have the Same Old Problems https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboard...
Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall With the Macbook Pro Keyboard https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/
An ode to Apple’s awful MacBook keyboard https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac...
Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac...
Apple owes everyone an apology and it should start with me, specifically https://theoutline.com/post/7315/apple-keyboards-still-suck-...
Nearly half of the third-gen Apple butterfly keyboards at Basecamp have failed https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nearly-half-of-the-thir...
Apple's MacBook Pro Keyboard Replacement Won't Fix Your Laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvsi2e3M5Ek
Why Is Tim Cook Hiding His Fix For The Embarrassing MacBook Problems https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2019/04/25/apple-mac...
Judge Rules Apple Must Answer for Failing to Disclose MacBook Keyboard Problems https://www.idropnews.com/news/judge-rules-apple-must-answer...
Apple's Butterfly Keyboard Continues to Plague MacBook Owners https://ifixit.org/blog/14776/apples-butterfly-keyboard-cont...
MacBook Pro Keyboard Failures: Why Apple's dust excuse is bullsh—! [Teardown + Explanations] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bjtyaw/macbook_pro_k...
My workstations have become a dumpster fire of dongles and I constantly have to unplug something to use the ports for something else. The previous model was so much better.
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I actually prefer the aesthetics of early MacBook / MacBook Pro unibody and iPhone SE. And they were a pleasure to use. Good key travel and easy to hold with one hand, respectively.
I hope there is a bit of function re-introduced into the design equation, so that products become more balanced.
I feel the same way about pre Touch Bar MacBooks - not that I have anything against Touch Bar (I think it’s fine and should probably be a lot more hackable) but the new keyboard just causes me cramps and finger pain after very little time. The old keyboards were so so good. Tactile, clicky and solid.
4S was the pinnacle of miniaturization tech. The SE screensize would fit in the 4S form-factor.
Most popular comment was “I can fit this in my pocket.”
You could easily plug it in even if blindfolded. And no problem when the cord got unexpectedly pulled or tripped on.
Every time I plug in my new macbook I miss it.
You can use any charger, use battery packs and any third party cable which means far more reliability and quality.
Current MBP hardware is nothing exciting to me. But my previous MBP was lasted me 2009 to 2016 I believe, with a few upgrades. And I like the OS.
I don't mind working in Linux or Windows but I prefer a lot of things about the Mac.
A lot of conveniences, and things that I feel have better execution. Rather predictably decent performance and good integration between software and hardware. That sort of thing.
I was OK with USB-C as it matches my Android phone and the iPad Pro. I'm down to a single charger for travel. It has drawbacks but makes a bit of sense. Not a fan of the new keyboards, really don't like the Touchbar. But overall I'm still fairly happy.
So that's why I, personally, bother. I care about whether they improve it because in spite of the Mac as a platform not hitting the sweets sports as well as previously for me it is still worth the premium they charge. To me.
I consider Macs expensive, I'm not sure that I consider them overpriced. Under-featured I'd dismiss out of hand, I'm sure they could be to some but it really depends on what you are looking at.
this is why :)
I absolutely love the current MacBook Pro as it is, keyboard, Touch Bar and all. The only changes I would wish for are an OLED/better screen with a higher native resolution, and perhaps make it even lighter. :)
Dead Comment
update:
I know it was designed like that due to air flow considerations. I just pointed out the fact that it seems the design team didn't get input from others, who IMO would've mentioned the similarity sooner, possibly helping Apple alter the design.
People here have been complaining about how Apple has prioritized aesthetics over functionality. It's worth taking a different stance and criticize Apple's choice of functionality over aesthetics in Mac Pro design.
update 2:
Some people actually have fear of holes (Trypophobia) which could be triggered by the design of Mac Pro. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia
It does, at least, look better than the last PC I built.
????
The model before the "trashcan" was popularly called the cheese grater for a long time, so I'm sure they were well aware of the resemblance already.
AAPL is down about 1%. So I guess the market values Ive at around $9B? :P
This makes me think that he no longer finds his work compelling at Apple. Or Apple decided it’s time for a new leader, but wants things to have a soft landing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive
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I have loved most of Ive's designs, but it's clear to me that he needs a bouncer to keep him in check. RIP.
Everything he did after that just seemed ... uninspired.