We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own path when they don't include the adapter.
Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old father and showed him how to use it, in preparation for his "headphone jack-less" future. After about a month (he lives in China, so I see him only a couple times a year), I asked him how it's going and he said he doesn't use them anymore because he just couldn't figure it out. I tried to explain "Turn on Bluetooth on your phone, then turn on your headphones, then hold down the button to pair, etc", but it was actually quite complicated because once he did this dance, 2 months later his phone restarted and bluetooth was off and we had to do it again. Software-wise, I can just send a link, but when it comes to hardware + software like printers, things become really challenging to explain.
I bring this up because if we're moving to the "wireless" world, we need to really consider accessibility for the elderly. My father ended up throwing away these really expensive Beats headphones, went to his local market and bought some cheap Sony headphones and is now listening fine. I'm not really sure what's going on happen when his next phone doesn't have the headphone jack.
Elderly? I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings.
I had a friend sync with my car bluetooth-stereo, it took a while and from the steering wheel I couldn't be of enough help. But it worked in the end, was quite frustrating though.
Then later when I tried to use my phone again it had been lost from the receiver (eventhough it can support two concurrent connections and I've only ever paired with two devices). So now I had to go through the whole dance that it was only paired in one device.
Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster. After a minute of fiddling with it I remembered I had an AUX cable. And then I could patiently fix it when I had time for it.
Bluetooth is a nightmare for temporary connections. Removing the headphone-jack is akin to removing a fire-alarm system because "it isn't used anyway". Well, the times you need it it is indispensable and it doesn't cost anything.
Exactly. Just recently I struggled with pairing a bluetooth speaker with my father's laptop. Another, exactly identical bluetooth speaker paired fine just the day before. The second one couldn't be paired for two days, and I have no idea why.
The fact that this bluetooth speaker has three different bluetooth modes with three different ways to switch between them via a single button doesn't help, and even after years I couldn't figure out which mode is meant for what purpose.
And the problem is that this happens regularly unless you never switch any device, which in reality doesn't happen, because nobody wants to buy nice headphones for every audio source.
Bluetooth is a mess, and I'm glad I stayed with headphone jacks so far.
I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings.
Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster.
In 2008, Apple introduced iPhone and promised us a future where everything "just works," and where the user and UX are paramount. Taking stock of the last decade, we're basically back to The Inmates are Running the Asylum.
I think it's cyclic. The rejected "IBM guy" in the short sleeved shirt portrayed in the Steve Jobs biopic was once the innovative young turk. Now, the typical mobile and web app developer are that "IBM guy," just with a different set of subcultural aesthetics and a different over elaborated UX language which has left ordinary users behind.
It's very telling that about half the time, I start getting hidden contempt from developers when I give them feedback. They're never wrong. I'm obviously deficient and dim. Never mind that I'm a programmer, and I'm pretty darn good at predicting how fellow engineers think. About half the time, that's where the developer starts from. No questions. No curiosity. It's just like in the old days when the command line was the fancy new easier interface. It's the same as long after GUI interfaces hit a wider public and the public started grousing about computer help desks.
(Directed to the 3rd party reader: Don't be that programmer. Seek not so much to be understood, as to understand.)
Also, I tried to use my bluetooth headphones with my Macbook air, even knowing the steps, and it said I had to upgrade the OS to use them (I think the OS was like a year old at the time, and the computer four years old -- El Capitan, I think?)
Seriously? Both OSes knew the version of the bluetooth protocol they needed to use to communicate, and it still doesn't work? Never had that problem with a headphone jack.
> I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices.
I second that. I use my Bluetooth headphones on three devices. But I can only save two connections. So one device I always use via jack to avoid having to repair several times a day.
I have 3 cars with Bluetooth and one of them (which sports a "Sync by Microsoft" label gives me no end of trouble with bluetooth. At one point I gave up and just started using a cord, because I could. I don't drive that car on a daily basis now (It's a Ford Fusion, which otherwise I like.), but when I do, I still have hassles.
>Removing the headphone-jack is akin to removing a fire-alarm system
Am I missing something? There's still a headphone port on phones, it's just not dedicated. People can still plug headphones in to their phones right? I'm asking because the tone of these comments makes it seem like new phones have removed the ability to listen to music without bluetooth.
I'm not an eldery, and I prefer a jack socket. I just don't get the benefit of bluetooth in most situations.
Jacks are more reliable and definitely plug-and-play. Unless it has a physical failure, your jack socket always just works. As you state it, bluetooth requires you to "Turn on Bluetooth on your phone, then turn on your headphones, then hold down the button to pair, etc", for no benefit. Oh, and now you need batteries on your headphone.
Look at professional musicians: you won't find anybody connecting his guitar to the amp through bluetooth. They are using good old wires and jack sockets: why is that? Are they too old?
Latency. When you're making music and interacting with it directly, you can't afford any noticeable latency. When you're passively listening to it, that doesn't really matter. For phone/tablet users the main place this matters is games, due to their interactive nature.
>I just don't get the benefit of bluetooth in most situations.
Aside from exercise, there isn't one.
OTOH, as you note, there are a large number of serious drawbacks -- battery failures being the biggest and most obvious. The other thing is that, heretofore, you could rely on a dumb audio jack if you wanted to play music with almost any device. Now you're limited to things with Bluetooth, and you have to extend some amount of trust in making that connection.
I use almost exclusively higher-end headphones -- say, $300 and up. Bluetooth has effectively zero presence in that market. There's a reason for this.
I also own AirPods, but their job is about 60% gym and 40% conversations. For serious listening, I reach for the Grados or the Etymotics or the Sennheisers.
Far too much of my life has already been wasted on pairing, unpairing, and re-pairing various Bluetooth devices. And I don't even use Bluetooth headphones.
Look at professional musicians: you won't find anybody connecting his guitar to the amp through bluetooth.
The first example that comes to mind is Angus Young, who has said that he considers his wireless rig to be part of his "sound". If any rock musician qualifies as "old", well, Angus ain't running around on stage like he used to. Anyway, that's just one example. Pros use wireless rigs all the time. They're not BT, though.
And they don't have some of the audio problems the blue tooth and USB have.
I am having a lot of trouble with my works laptop /docking station using usb for skype - To the point where I am going to try brining in a real sound card and use one of my Shure dynamic mics with a 1/4 inch jack
> Unless it has a physical failure, your jack socket always just works.
What does that mean? What would it mean if I said "Unless it has a physical failure, your car always just works"?
I've had lots of problems with wired headphones and jacks. More often it's the headphone that's the problem, but I've have several issues with the jacks themselves. They can get stuff jammed into them, but they can also just not work properly. I don't know why exactly, but I've had it happen.
I think the problem, in the specific audio area, is the technology itself rather than accessibility.
The Bluetooth standard is trash; no stack/device [combination] just works as it's supposed to do.
If BT worked, I think accessibility would pose no problem; ultimately, the intended workflow is: 1. turn on BT on the host device (if required); 2. turn on the client device; 3. listen to music.
As the BT committees and implementers keep pushing features rather than taking care of the stability, for a stable BT to ever happen, it would require all of them to be exiled and replaced by a new generation; I don't think this will ever happen.
There is a good supply of Chinese phones that include a headphone jack. If the iPhone is a product you don't like, just buy another phone. It will be cheaper and will do the same and probably more.
It may take a while to get used to a different OS, but I've seen my parents switching between iPhone and Android without problems so I don't think your father (about the same age) will have more difficulties.
One would think Android phone makets would take this as opportunity given the massive uproar. But instead they are absolutely determined to blindly follow Apple off the cliff. Now many major Android phones have not only removed headphone jack but even introduced unnecessary notch even though they don’t have FaceID!! The lack of independent thinking is stunning among leading Android phone makers and very sad thing for consumers in this duopoly.
I'm preparing to jump ship. I think my phone has 18-24 months left in it, but I'm already refraining from getting locked in into iOS-only apps, even though (e.g.) I just discovered Omni products which seem, forgive my french, amazeballs.
The problem is that App Store performance is a much noisier feedback channel back to Cupertino.
Personally I feel like makers saw an opportunity on 1) boost sales on new headphones 2) get rid of the cable hanging around.
I can understand and feel your fathers frustration trying to use wireless headphones, on the other side if they never ever get rid of the headphone jack then users are going to end up never getting trained on how to use wireless headphones.
Generally with leaps in tech there are leaps in reduced accessibility for older people, and with how fast tech is changing I can’t see the current older generation getting more familiar with tech.
Although give it a generation more and people that are currently 40 will be able to adapt new tech much easier and accessibility is going to be much less of an issue for the foreseen future.
Also at the end of the day I think there are adaptors that convert the jack into whatever port your phone has. I know it’s not ideal as you get more pieces to carry around and you might lose them but again there is a solution.
Also I have to state the fact that I was highly against not having a headphone jack as I own several pairs of good headphones with jacks and also I just didn’t like that change. I adapted and tbh I am much happier with Wirless headphones right now and not having those cables around me. Battery life could improve which am sure it will with time and I won’t need to charge them every so often but over all I am admitting that I was mistakenly thinking that wireless headphones and no jack sucks.
> I can understand and feel your fathers frustration trying to use wireless headphones, on the other side if they never ever get rid of the headphone jack then users are going to end up never getting trained on how to use wireless headphones.
But why do you want to get rid of the headphone jack? For iPhone, this is a direct downgrade, loss of very useful functionality. That's why people are complaining; while companies seem to like trading utility for fashion all the time, this case was unprecedently blatant.
> Also at the end of the day I think there are adaptors that convert the jack into whatever port your phone has.
That's the trick though. Someone's gonna make money on the adapters :). Also, I start to think this was a move meant to "disrupt" the headphones market. Suddenly the perfectly good headphones no longer work for a big and rich chunk of people, and out come new wireless options. The conspiracist in me wonders whether people responsible for this decision have any ties to people selling AirPods and their alternatives :).
So I am in a few years nearing 40, and I remembered when I first used a bluetooth headset, it was like seventeen years ago, so I was in my early 20s
Though it was (a tiny bit) more "magical" back then, pairing devices sucked then and still sucks.
Has anything even changed with how Bluetooth works?
Cause I keep giving Bluetooth new chances, "well it's X years later, and it still exists, surely they must have found a way to make it suck less"--and every time it's a disappointment. People still fiddling with pairing their devices, taking too much time, always at a most inconvenient moment (either in groups with everyone waiting and the device making funny noises, or when you're busy with the task Bluetooth was meant to free your hands for).
Did they fix or improve anything about Bluetooth over the years? Cause it feels to me the attitude has always been what you said: people should just get used to it better. Because what Bluetooth promises sounds like an awesome idea and why shouldn't we have that? But the reality is that it sucks too much and people aren't getting used to it.
To constrast with Bluetooth, I also remember when Wifi started to appear. It also used to suck a bit. It was often difficult to connect to, very unreliable, connections dropping, etc. You wouldn't want to have to rely on it for connectivity, so bring an Ethernet cable for your laptop, just in case. But nowadays, Wifi works brilliantly. You can bring your laptop for a presentation and safely depend on there being Wifi (or your/someone's phone mobile hotspot). Even older people can connect to new Wifi networks (at a restaurant or friends') without too much trouble. And that's including having to select the correct network manually and type in a password.
Ask yourself this: You're at a new place, there's a Wifi network you haven't used before, but you know the name and password. Also there is a Bluetooth device that you have never connected to before. Which of these are you most confident about you can connect to and use without trouble?
Why is this different? Did Wifi improve in significant aspects in the past two decades where Bluetooth didn't? Why is that?
>>Although give it a generation more and people that are currently 40 will be able to adapt new tech much easier and accessibility is going to be much less of an issue for the foreseen future
Unfortunately no, it will not. My father would have no conceptual issue operating a smartphone, but he does not have the dexterity required anymore, in fact he has issues just using a keyboard. These things happen with age, accessibility concerns aren't going to dissappear simply because people know how to operate the devices. FWIW, this is a man who knew how to touch-type, but as he has gotten older he is simply less dexterous. There is more to accessibility than just hoping people know how to use the software.
New tech needs to be easier and better, or it's not worth having. Forcing people to use bluetooth is not easier, and it's not better, so it' a bad idea. Period.
This is about what's good for Apple (and other companies making a similar change, plus the people who sell the peripherals), and not what's better for the users.
I think this is a wonderful point. I have elderly parents who depend on the web and mobile apps for a lot of the logistics of their everyday life, so I see the harm that this causes. The constant forced updates (looking at you, Windows) represent arbitrarily moving goal posts, UX-wise.
Gratuitous animation, new "social/platform" features, notification-spam, new "design languages", and etc. benefit the elderly even less than they benefit the rest of us - rather these things actively hurt them when basic things suddenly become confusing and difficult without warning. We've made digital technology mandatory for most people, and we've made it unnecessarily bewildering for a big subset of them, basically by pretending that all users are youngish, digitally-fluent, time-rich, and open to unasked-for "innovation".
It all started when we abandoned all the advances in UI that were accomplished by IBM and Microsoft (yes, Microsoft) in the 80s and let art majors start designing "UX".
I felt the same way about the adapter my phone came with, until I wanted to use the headphones on my desk at work and realized I couldn't do that because I left the adapter with the headphones in my car.
The problem with the headphone jack adapter is that it is mutually exclusive with input for the power cable.
Where this is particularly frustrating is when you are on a particularly long conference call and your phone starts to run out of charge. This happened regularly enough for me ditch the iphone.
I'm sure there yet another dongle you can buy to address this shortcoming though.
While I mourn the practicality of the embedded jack on my iPhone 8, I've had quite a few headphones in a row whose jack ended up failing due to the way my phone is placed inside my pocket, and a repair was impossible, so that was quite an unexpected improvement to have the adapter possibly fail and be replaced at a very small cost instead of a full headset† going bust.
† five actually (100-300€ price range), two of which the cord is replaceable (which I did) but how long will that specific cord be available?
We don't just need to consider accessibility for the elderly. I need to regularly reconfigure my Bluetooth connections on my phone. They just randomly stop working. With the latest version of Android, I couldn't figure out how to even access the Bluetooth settings. When I connect some devices, they don't show up in the list of paired devices. Somehow it still ended up working, but I don't know how or why.
When I walk into the bathroom wearing my Bluetooth headphones, my podcasting app starts detecting disconnections and pausing, so I have to turn off the feature to stop playing on headset disconnect. This makes everything else work poorly. My podcast player also often crashes when I connect a Bluetooth device.
My problems get a lot worse when I try to pair a speaker or headphones with multiple devices. I often have to factory reset the device to get it to work again when switching sources.
I'm clearly not the only technically-minded person dealing with random nasty Bluetooth issues, as evidenced by this article and https://xkcd.com/2055/
This is why I hold on to my iPhone 6 like it's precious and won't install any software updates so as not to kill the battery. I have bluetooth headphones but they're a pain to charge and the headphone jack just works consistently. I love my iPhone 6!!
IIRC, Bluetooth LE devices managed by apps doesn't have to be listed in Android, since the app can talk to it without pairing. Devices not meant for pairing with the OS itself (because it doesn't offer interfaces the OS understand) will not always show in scans, because Android can't interact with them without needing additional apps. So instead the corresponding apps has to be used to scan for them, to tell Android that this app can talk to those devices.
Yes, but looking at Apple, Google, HTC, Samsung and recent history, I think it will come down to this: https://xkcd.com/927/ . I'm almost certain that whatever Apple developed for the Airpods will not be shared with other companies. And whatever other companies push forward as a "Standard" will not replace the Apple Solution in the near future. Even replacing apples crappy AFP Network Protocol took 13 years, until SMB finally took over in macOS Mavericks. And even then, they used their own implementation instead of the official "Standard" one.
If we're doing anecdata, my mother (70) got my old iPhone and coped perfectly happily with switching to Bluetooth headphones; indeed, she managed all the pairing, etc., herself.
A agree completely, but we're not really moving to a wireless world yet unless we choose to. The default in-the-box solution is still wired headphones.
I am also very strongly against having 2.4GHz Bluetooth radiation wrapped right around my head. There is a good chance this doesn’t matter but some chance that it does. No one knows. I refuse to be forced guinea pig in this wireless headset experiment.
The radiator is your phone. The wireless headset does a lot of receiving and very, very little radiation. That's why those tiny bluetooth things can have many weeks of battery lifetime on a battery the size of a fingernail: They don't radiate much energy either towards your brain or towards the phone.
(Digressing, I wonder how much radiation incidental WLAN use on a phone causes, compared to a bluetooth headset. I mean things like googleplay chancing to upgrade a few apps via WLAN while you're holding the phone against your ear.)
Do you not use mobile phones against your ear either? Bluetooth earphones are mostly receivers and are several orders of magnitude lower power than a mobile phone transmitter. In fact they're a lot lower power than most domestic landline walk-about DECT phone handsets.
Where does the force come from? Are you required to use this kit for your job?
Also Apple has the greatest accessibility track record (and tons of awards on such matters), and e.g. blind people etc swear by its products (as opposed to at it).
Or any ad, really. Apple is at least one order of magnitude better at a11y than everyone else in the industry; this is simply a nonsense comment. Nobody else remotely approaches them on this front—it may be their biggest and most unassailable moat, albeit for a tiny market that won’t ever increase in size. It’s one of the most charitable things they do as an organization.
What's the point in coming here and trying to spread lies? Apple regularly highlights accessibility features and I'm fairly sure they're among the leaders in the tech field, if not THE leader.
Just attach the tiny little dongle that comes with the phone to the headphones. Then say to him that he can put the charging cable there and also the headphones cable.
Would this be too complicated too? You can get the EarPods with a lightning connector. If that’s too complicated then maybe you can draw a picture explaining it?
Not sure of the intent with your tone, but I wouldn't need to draw a picture of something so simple. As mentioned in the post, I would love to resort to a connector, _if the dongle came with his iPhone_. The only new information I can provide is, because the dongle is small, I know he'd lose it and continuously buying this connector isn't an option (hence why I tried to future-proof him)
Then you misplace the lot and you're out $50-$100 worth of kit, rather than a $4 set of 3.5mm headphones, which you already have six compatible pairs of sitting in the culch drawer.
100% agree with this. Its pretty interesting that I almost never use headphones anymore now because bluetooth headphones require a few things:
1) preplanning/foresight in charging the headphones
2) refer to number 1.
I have 2 really nice pairs of bluetooth headphones, and almost NEVER use them. Guess what pair gets used almost daily? my 15 year old beyerdynamic DT770s. 3.5mm or ¼" plug, closed back. Not really the most accurate, but a nice bass heavy rich sound and plenty loud. they work with gear that is 50 years old and brand new(so long as they include a headphone jack). I have vintage analog synthesizers 80s and 90s samplers to <2 year old digital synths. All work with these headphones.
Apple really really really really really really screwed up here. reverse course immediately.
Use another brand phone? It couldn't really be simpler, free market and all.
Wireless things suck, I've never considered bluetooth for anything and I really, really hate my bluetooth keyboards. They have nice keys and petite builds, but I haven't used any of them for years now (one Apple, another also with great build). Can't be bothered for batteries, can't be bothered with bluetooth for different linux distros, desktop environments etc. Habits with technology are easily broken even when we don't want to. Give me wired or I'll go without. Also, Wi-Fi internet at home just sucks (IoT/SmartHome I won't even go into, much less that joke called SmartTV [give me regular TVs back please that don't look after me in goody two shoe or shady ways]). Whoever thought Wi-Fi everywhere was a good idea? Reach sucks, gives everyone on the block cancer. Let's stop spamming waves around people. They're not not noise, even if not perceived (microwaves for instance make me want to leap out of the room, it's like a screeching feeling.) I wish ethernet cables were still something people regularly setup, really wish.
I used not to hate technology, really did. Then the executives overdid it and the Wozniaks were put out on the side.
> Use another brand phone? It couldn't really be simpler, free market and all.
Well, it could be simpler, and more of a free market, if you could choose your OS across different brands instead of also having to change that, or if you didn't lose access to everything you have already bought for one OS's app marketplace.
There are plenty of things being done by the vendors in this space specifically to combat the effectiveness of the free market, because the free market is good for consumers and bad for short term company profits. Captive consumers are all the rage in the 2000's.
As a counterpoint, I think wires suck. They get in the way, they get tangled, I have to transport them, they break all too often, I trip over them, they knock things over when I move with them, they blow around in the wind, they present a fire risk and a safety risk, they have some kind of physical connection which keeps changing.
Downsides of wireless: remembering to charge, and configuration (a bit annoying if you have multiple devices).
> They're not not noise, even if not perceived (microwaves for instance make me want to leap out of the room, it's like a screeching feeling.)
I don't want to second-guess you, but that sounds more like a high-frequency sound from the microwave mechanism than anything directly caused by microwave radiation. Can you hear the "mosquito sound"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKl_sTh0oHE
Latency is another issue. If you use your phone or tablet to make music then wireless headphones have an unacceptable delay. It's not a huge niche but there are a lot of us out there.
I also still use my DT770s as my daily headphones when I'm at my computer. I wish I had bought the Pro version way back when, as I believe it has detachable cables, and also higher resistance... it's difficult to modulate the volume on my desktop, as even 4-6% can be loud enough in some circumstances and there's not a lot of room for fine control at that level. In any case, I have had mine around the same length of time as you.
However, I also really love my bluetooth headphones, and that's what I use when I'm not at my desk at home. They also work as wired headphones, but I acknowledge they are not affordable to most people. A charge lasts a really long time, and they have some nice features as well. I don't expect them to last 15 years, however.
I bought a specific pair of wired earbuds with a mic to use for conference calls using my phone (Android). Now that my phone is failing and I'm forced to upgrade, I'm a bit concerned that the USB-to-3.5mm dongle for the Pixel 3 may not be compatible w/ the mic in my earbuds. In pictures it looks like it has a proper tip-ring-sleeve configuration so it might work, but at this point I'm just crossing my fingers until I can test.
With regards to your desktop, I had/have the same issue with the volume being insanely loud and my options being either on at 2% or off since everything else was uncomfortable. I found https://equalizerapo.com/ (for Windows, similar things seem to exist for other systems based on a quick google search) fixed the problem and allowed a lot greater fine control.
To get lower volume overall with Equalizer APO: install, reboot and change the Preamp line in EqualizerAPO/config/config.txt to -20 dB or whatever suits you. It should work as soon as you save.
Just as an FYI you can buy adapters that increase impedance on your headphones very cheaply on eBay. If you are looking to change sensitivity without changing impedance (which has some effects on sound signature), iFi makes the “Ear Buddy” and “iEMatch” products that are a bit more expensive, but do what they claim on the tin.
I don't know if this was the case "back when", but nowadays the pro version does not have detachable cables. The difference is that the cable is coiled (and I think a bit longer) and some parts (that do not affect the sound signature) are of slightly higher quality.
I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones that can actually go both ways. It has a wired and wireless mode. The wireless mode is great for exercise and chores, but if I forget to charge them I can still use them.
Is the quality of sound still the same in the wired mode? I have one like this, but the quality of sound in the wired mode is too atrocious to even think of it as an option. So while it ticks a "feature" on the box, it is, for all practical purposes, simply a bluetooth headphone.
Not sure, but it appears that the bypass around the amplifier (which requires power) is just not designed right.
AirPods require neither of these things. The case is always charging them. You want to use your beyerdynamics? Fine. Your phone came with an adapter for them.
I use AirPods. I even like them. ... but you do realize that the case isn't a magical source of energy, right? You have to charge that thing... and the airpods themselves last a remarkably long time, but they don't last that long, so I find myself having to do this awkward dance in the middle of meetings where I take one out and charge it while relying on the other one, and then I swap to charge that one... I have lightning earpods, but then I can't charge my phone at the same time, so at some point my phone starts running out of battery and I'd have to switch to the airpods anyway (lol). I have tried buying multiple brands of lightning splitters, and they all suck and often the phone isn't quite able to charge even though it says it is charging.
I honestly don't care if I have a "headphone jack": I totally agree with Apple that it was a shitty jack. It was a fragile hole that made it impossible to waterproof the damned phone. How about they just give me two lightning ports? Or a lightning port and a USB-C port, to make my dreams finally come true of only having to carry around one (USB-C) cable while still getting to be compatible with all of the stuff Apple already sold for these devices?
Its not that I "want" to use them. The difference is that I could use the same headphones to record drums, drum machines, guitar, Vox, or even my iPhone. Bluetooth is great! I use it in my car for phone and audio all the time. Wireless headphones are at a fundamental disadvantage in that they have less battery capacity than a phone. Those AirPod thingys you like? great. They don't fit my weird ears. My problem. but ear buds and I don't mix. Sorry, wireless and small are at odds with each other.
"AirPods" also cost about the same as one of my phones (a Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 running LineageOS [1]) which comes with a 3.5" jack. With one fell swoop I get a phone which does not phone home (other than through the radio firmware blob of course), which runs for a week on a single charge and connects to all those things with 3.5" jacks which I happen upon, be it headphones or cassette adapters or older car radios without bluetooth.
To paraphrase some marketing slogans from the days of yore:
I have had mixed results with AirPods on a 2015 MacBook Pro. The earbuds themselves are great, the case is great, but they just don't know how to bluetooth with the laptop of the same company. Every time I put them on, the hunt for a BT connection starts. Sometimes I have to reboot my computer to make them work. It's such a shame that a behemoth like Apple can't make BT work between two of their products. In fact, it's deplorable. How could they ship such a shitty wireless thing?
While “we” are in the 10% I try to think about the changes in the frame of the “90/10 rule” (also how I consider the impact of features in my applications). Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.
If I were a company, I doubt I’d change course immediately unless the larger data set said something significantly in the other direction. As developers are still, even with our more frequent “upgrade” cycle, not the largest piece of the pie.
> Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.
Anecdotally, the headphone jack loss negatively impacted 100% of the non-developerd I've talked to about it. Now, I recognize the particular skew to that experience that biases it to a negative impact—most of the people I've talked to about it happened to be ballroom dance instructors or students in a ballroom teacher training program at a studio where the routine was to plug your device in to the sound system via 1/8” plug (neither keeping the adapter permanently on the phone or on the studio sound system was a viable solution for any of them, so it was one more thing to forget, misplace, etc.)
But I suspect your 100% is also skewed. Anecdotal experience usually is.
> Anecdotally, dropping the headphone jack (and similarly adding the Touch Bar) has negatively impacted 0% of non-developers I’ve talked to about both.
How does removing the headphone benefit users? Also how does being a developer affect how one would listen to music on a phone?
A common use case for me was in the car, where I want to be charging it but also use the audio port to interface with one of those tape deck adaptors, or just a rental with a terrible Bluetooth implementation (seriously, some of them scrape all your contacts assuming it is your car, and store them in the center console).
I also have broken or
lost over 3 adaptors now. This wasn’t broken and was pretty transparently done to increase the adoption rate of airpods IMO, so it is pretty frustrating. If I hadn’t had mind-blowing-ly bad experiences with samsung phones I would have jumped ship over this.
Personally, I regularly charge my phone and listen to music through the 3.5mm jack at the same time when I'm driving (my car doesn't have Bluetooth, so I have to use one of those 3.5mm-to-cassette adapters). Using a phone that doesn't have a 3.5mm jack would mean needing to burn quite a bit more money to somehow wire up my car for Bluetooth if I want to still be able to do these things.
> but I really couldn’t before either considering the length of the charging cable.
The only place this really makes sense is on a long haul flight when you want to make sure you have fully charged phone and listen to music while falling asleep.
I am happy to discuss with anyone who downvotes as to why they disagree with me. My comment may be tangental but is completely relevant to the discussion and reinforces points made in the article.
I agree completely. Digital video had advantages. Despite those, analog still makes some sense, if nothing but fewer resources being needed.
Outside some niche uses, digital video really does make general sense. I hear and often agree with analog arguments. I keep analog gear, and in my own hardware projects will stay analog, perhaps also having digital, depending.
But, overall? People largely benefit more from digital video, and with the loss of the CRT, adoption makes sense. Digital only gear makes sense. I have no concerns and can easily use an analog adapter in a pinch.
With audio, it is inverted! A few niche uses benefit, most do not. They are equal or very modest gain at best.
Video gear seems to age out more quickly too. Increases in resolution drive all that, and analog limits do too. Above HDTV 1920x1080, analog has real issues.
Analog audio does not have those dynamics. There is no analog cliff to drive digital gear. Great stuff from the 70's remains entirely relevant. It always will. Ears are just not like eyes.
I will never, ever buy something that only delivers audio digitally.
Try the same kind of comment in the apple support forums and you'll see what kind of mentality die hard apple fans have. The amount of "your opinions are wrong because apple is perfect" is staggering.
I went online to get some help with what was revealed to be the infamous touch-ic issues, and I was told off in so many ways ("that's an old model, you should really get the new one", "if you get flexion based damage, you are using your phone wrong", "wow, another bend-gater. Stop bending your damn phone!").
This was after internal apple documents showed that they were aware of flexion damage before the phone was released to market.
There's a few people on HN who seem to have a weirdly emotional affection for the iPhone's lack-of-headphone-jack. One guy argued that it was all worth it because it reduces dust infiltration, another because it makes it more water-resistant. (Yeah.)
I can see why someone who's never used wired earbuds wouldn't care one way or another, but I really don't understand this sort of attachment.
The thing is we shouldn't have to do this. The beauty of the 3.5 was the fact that you could've gone to pretty much any remote corner of the earth and you probably could've access to one if you lost yours.
Hahaha. That reads straight or as sarcasm. Well done! I’m sure there are a million reasons that the 3.5 plug was holding back the iPhone, but I have yet to see even 1/1,000,000th of them in the iPhone.
It's not like the old headphones can't be used without a headphone jack. The 3.5mm-to-lightning or 3.5mm-to-usb-c dongles are small and relatively cheap. I just keep mine hooked up to my wired headphones.
>I just keep mine hooked up to my wired headphones.
This works great, until...
You leave the pair of headphones with the dongle behind by mistake and spend the rest of the day frustrated because you have access to a perfectly good pair of headphones but no the dongle.
Or you stick to one primary pair of headphones and are frequently taking the dongle on and off making it even easier to misplace or leave behind.
The blog ends with the best and most insightful comment:
And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse.
The author also points towards active de-standardisation between Android and iOS:
"if only there was one universal audio port they both could use"
Apple gets an advantage from this with their iron-grip on compatible peripherals, but I don't know why any of the Android manufacturers would follow suit. The ugliness of the impracticality of fashion.
Personally, I detest wired headphones. I find they always get caught on things while I'm wearing them, and because of the neck problems I have that's a big issue for me (and as well as that, they'd always get tangled up in my bag, which was a bit of a hassle).
So I'm personally glad they've removed the headphone jack, because it will help push wireless into the mass market (and bring down prices) at a faster rate than it otherwise would have.
Now of course, there's lots of people who don't find it a positive like I do. My point is not that everyone should find the jack removal great, my point is that it's wrong to claim that it's a disadvantage for everyone.
On a separate note, people like to shit on Apple for that "courage" claim, but even if removing the jack was a bad decision, I think it's fair to call it a courageous one, because they knew well that they'd get a lot of shit for making that decision. Look at what gets said every time the headphone jack issue is brought up on HN.
I don't know, I don't think any of those personal reasons invalidates the arguments of the parent. Your mileage on cables may vary, but the removal of an interface that had been understood by laypeople and was universally supported for the last 50 years seems a more important point to me.
I personally feel 'cord getting caught
is the real motivation behind killing the jack. Every time I've dropped my iPhones since the first one came out, it was because the headphone cable got caught on something and yanked the phone out of my hand or pocket. I am unwilling to use bluetooth as the signal cuts out, batteries are always dead and occasional pairing difficulties. When my iPhone SE dies...(my 9th iPhone) I will likely have to switch to an Android.
> I think it's fair to call it a courageous one, because they knew well that they'd get a lot of shit for making that decision.
Doing something you know will be unpopular is not automatically "courageous". Sometimes it's just stupid. I'm sure you can think of plenty of examples.
but that doesn’t really answer the question of “why remove it?” keeping the audio jack does not prevent the use of wireless headphones. and keeping the audio jack does not really pose a problem.
They are already in the mass market the problem is they suck.
I have tried a bunch of cheap Chinese bluetooth headphones that cost from $20-$60 they all sound like $5 wired headphones have about 2 hours battery life and break after a month.
I have tried bluetooth head phones that where $200 beats by drea they worked as well as the Chinese headphones they just cost 10 times the price.
Removing the headphone jack has forced people to spend a lot of money on shitty headphones, thats what your glad of.
I have a hate relationship with wired things too. Irony is that when I use BT ones, I stay sit thinking I can't leave or I will rip the wire from the device.
I think the issue is that BT has always been a catastrophy in terms of ergonomy, today things are better but still a bit hazardous. Maybe a super simple wireless protocol for managing audio streams (and handling multiple sinks) would change that
Removing the headphone jack doesn't push wireless into the mass market. It was already in the mass market and it was going to be in the mass market regardless of how Apple designed their phones. If you want to use a wireless headset, you always could. Removing the headphone jack didn't give you any sort of advantages as a wireless user, it just removed an option you didn't use.
And no, it's not courageous to do something dumb and getting skewered for being dumb is not evidence of courage.
As a frequent long flight traveler I have range anxiety on my wireless headphones. I like the 3.5mm jack guarantees me one less device or peripheral to worry about, it just works (even if the noise cancellation may stop working when the battery dies, sound still goes through)
I probably wouldn’t have bought AirPods if my phone still had a 1/8” jack, and every time I have had to use wired earphones since have been worse than if I had my AirPods on me. So here’s one human who disagress with the first bit.
> but I don't know why any of the Android manufacturers would follow suit.
The obvious reason is a decrease in BOM which corresponds directly with an increase (however so slightly per unit) in margin. Apple made it "ok" to whack this functionality, so why wouldn't every manufacturer join in?
Another "courageous" thing that Apple did was release a computer in 1983 without any fans, which was extremely heavy because it had a giant heat sink, and would still overheat constantly.[1]
And yes, this was apparently Steve Job's idea, as he felt that fans were "too noisy and inelegant". I imagine that he felt that fans were holding humanity back, and smugly told people who disagreed that they were clinging to obsolete technology.
It got so bad, that Apple actually advised their customers to physically lift and drop their Apple IIIs to re-seat the chips that had popped out from the excessive heat.[2]
Of course, if today Apple decided that fans were obsolete again, and the latest Macbooks were twice as heavy and still overheated, then it would become the new normal, and it would be hard to find computers that had fans anymore, and we would long for the days when we could just use computers for as long as we wanted without worrying about them overheating. And on the internet, commenters would say that it wasn't a big deal at all, and if you were some sort of power user that wanted to use your laptop for more than a few hours at a time, you should buy a $250 cooling pad for it.
The key to the statement is the "a lot of our lives are just a little worse" at the end, which is an argument that doesn't work for floppy drives, serial ports and, arguably, CD drives, as they were phased out well after commonly-used replacements were well into the mainstream.
The use-case for the 3.5mm headphone jack is still well and truly within the mainstream, and will probably stay there for some time as per the comment in the blog:
the right pair of headphones was the pair of headphones in front of you, or in your pocket, or mangled at the bottom of your bag. It didn’t matter.
There's a lot of legacy-weight hanging around in people's houses, bags, and workplaces.
Your point, however, isn't completely lost on me. I still miss CD drives occasionally, having to retrieve an older laptop in order to grab data from a disc I haven't yet bothered to archive to an ISO file. However, removing a CD drive from a laptop feels like a much higher percentage space saver than losing the 3.5mm jack from a smartphone.
The world had mostly moved on from 3.5" floppy drives when apple dropped them, they were mostly used for windows boot disks and to transfer files between machines. Their complete hardware control allowed them to drop the former and their tiny market share meant they didn't have to care much about the later, floppy disks being incompatible between macs and PC's. The G# being a desktop machine also meant that for anyone that really did need a floppy drive an external one was an acceptable option, carting around dongles is not.
The world didn't care about wireless headphones until their wired option was taken away. It's a solution to a problem of their own making.
I don't know about you, but my computer still has 2 serial ports on the back, a 3.5" USB drive, and 100% compatibility with CDs via my CD-RW/DVD-RW optical drive. Who removed these things? Who would have the gall to tell me that my use-case is somehow invalid because I use older, more reliable hardware and methods?
For audio output (the majority usecase, I'd argue), this didn't matter much. Left and right audio output _always worked_, and in my experience, at least the play/pause button worked fairly universally as well.
It’s a bit of a cheap statement though. If keeping the headphone jack would have prevented Apple from making the iPhone X, then the argument wouldn’t hold any value.
I would have hated if the XS was thicker, or if it still had bezels.
False. Samsung devices have had good water resistance ratings while still retaining headphone ports. (In fact some of the older models even managed to do so with removable batteries.)
that’s what apple wants people to believe so they believe it. however, it’s not true. for example, the lg v35 has an audio jack (and a high-end audio dac at that) and yet has the same water resistant rating, ip68, as the iphone xs.
I've never plugged my headphones into a jack and had them fail to work (ok, on my old cassette Walkman, I sometimes had to jiggle the plug around to get the headphones to work, but modern devices seem to have solved that problem (through gold plated connectors? I dunno)).
But around once every 8 times I get into my car, I need to turn off/on Bluetooth on my car, my phone, or both to get it to connect. More rarely, I have to reboot my phone. I haven't used a Bluetooth headset with my phone in several years, but I had the same problem then.
So I don't think Bluetooth is that reliable "works every time" standard.
What about the people who sell Bluetooth headphones? I’d think of some of them are doing better? Or what about the people who worked on the AirPods? Or god forbid the people who like AirPods (or other Bluetooth headphones) more than any wired ones?
False dichotomy. The choice is not only between 3.5mm jacks and Bluetooth; there are thousands of models of devices that support and have supported both.
It's not that insightful, since it's obviously false. The fact is that the much-improved water resistance made possible in part by ditching the headphone jack has made a lot of users' lives much better, because they have dunked their iPhones in water and the result has been no damage, as opposed to the expense and inconvenience of replacing their phones.
It would have been more effective if the author didn't cherry-pick only the facts which support his argument.
Apple's own 3.5mm -> lighting dongle is surprising resistant to water (I've spilled coffee on mine and it still works), but I can't find any information of whether the dongle itself is waterproof. I've looked.
Also, Samsung made a phone with a waterproof 3.5mm female port. They weren't the first.
> And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse
Good old shortsightedness at play here. No one looks past this year or years to come when faced with changes. Here's what I think, based on history, is happening here:
# Wires are more bad than good for average consumer:
a. Neglected security based on assumption that since it's not wireless, it's immune to eavesdropping (think side-channel attacks). Wireless puts security upfront and center.
b. Cables get lost, break, are not long enough, are not compatible, damage the connectors, bad cables damage the device, cost extra, etc. Wireless doesn't.
c. Cables are cumbersome. They get tangled, you need to remember to carry them, have backups, etc.
d. Cables have short range.
Apple evidently cares quite a bit about user experience. Wires hurt user experience so they want to get rid of them, one by one. You can't push towards superfast, low power and generally more advanced mobile devices and accessories, if the industry has no reason to do so (because everything works and has for the past 50 years).
It's tiring reading every day how someone is upset because their favorite feature is gone because they can't see past their front door.
b. loss and breakage isn't a wired-exclusive problem
c. backups? so long as you bring backup wireless things as well, no worries
d. Fair enough, but long cables are possible, and in regards to a smart phone, most people carry it on their person so it's not generally a problem - although the freedom to roam about the house with your phone on the counter while you're vacuuming is advantageous in those particular scenarios. Pending wireless range.
The problem is that all the issues you name are only marginally bad for the average consumer — there isn’t much motivation to move when the problem isn’t that bad for most. And most importantly all the issues you mention were already solvable with Bluetooth.
Apple has had great success in the past by pushing new standards in computer peripherals, deprecating old standards, and generally moving the industry forward by fiat.
I think we've all benefitted somewhat from this attitude, even if it was inconvenient.
The distinction here is that the 3.5mm standard isn't/wasn't a computer peripheral standard. It is/was an audio industry standard. There are many uses for 3.5mm that have nothing to do with phones/tablets/laptops/desktops.
Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment. Audiophile and pro audio headphones (for example) represent a significant investment and are intended to last many years.
In my view, Apple's approach to this was a kind of chauvinistic hubris. No, I don't want to use a $15 adapter of dubious quality on my $1500 custom molded in-ear monitors. No, I can't just get a new pair. No, I can't re-sell them, they only fit my ears. No, they wouldn't sound the same even if a bluetooth version were to become available. No, I doubt the 4 person company that makes them is eager to try to figure out how to make a lightning version, even if they have the in-house expertise.
The decision really shows a lack of understanding of the world outside of computer manufacturing, and it is too bad others followed suit.
> Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment
This I have studio headphones I bought in 1995 that I still use nearly daily (albeit not with my phone). I've replaced the earpads on them at least 5 times.
yes. for example, i sometimes use my phone as a high quality source for outputting audio that i then sample into my op-1 or octatrack. yes, those are niche products though not niche use cases, and i think it’s an example where apple’s usage dictation doesn’t work.
what is funny is that apple gave the excuse of wanting to save space getting rid of the audio jack. but my lg v35 has an audio jack and is thinner than and just as nicely designed as the iphone xs. additionally, lg actually has a high end audio dac in the phone, so music on my v35, and the v10 before it, sounds insanely good on my beyerdynamic headphones.
if i were to move to an iphone, apple would want to take these experiences away from me. and for what? pure hubris predicated on the business plan to sell more accessories like dongles and headphones mascaraed as design courage.
The $15 adapter is most likely of similar quality as the DAC and other audio components in the phone, so I don’t see the point. (Also, most people I know with $1000 headphones use an external audiophile-grade DAC anyway.)
They might, but why should they have to? That tiny ESS DAC in LG phones is measurably better than a lot of external "audiophile-grade" DACs. It doesn't compromise the design or the water resistance of the phone either and probably doesn't add much cost relative to other components.
This is basically an arrogant move that can't really be technically justified.
E.g. By arguing that better external options exist - better external cameras also exist, should we get rid of the camera too?
One of the things I feel happens in the tech world is innovation for innovation’s sake. In my opinion, “Real innovation” solves problems. What was the problem Apple was really trying to solve by removing the jack? The only thing I can come up with is to allow a “thinner” design.
In all the previous “radical changes”, they created a “better solution” to a problem. Take the removal of Floppies or CD drives, in both cases, the problem was getting data onto the machine efficiently. In both cases technology moved ahead and created better methods of moving data.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I fail to see what problem they really “solved” by removing the audio jack.
My understanding is that the headphone jack actually occupies a lot of space. If you have opened up a phone before, it is evident that all internal space is _very_ well accounted for, so removing a headphone jack is actually a very tangible increase in usable internal space. And it's not just the jack, you need to include a DAC in the device, too!
This means being able to include more/new co-processors, different/better microphone technology, etc, not just thinner.
Only what I've heard from other hardware engineers though, I do not work directly in the space. "Sell headphones," could absolutely be a goal.
> The only thing I can come up with is to allow a “thinner” design.
The thinnest iPhone ever was the 6s, which had a headphone jack so that doesn't hold water.
The only justification that I know that works out is that by removing the headphone jack you do free up a bunch of space inside the phone, which can be used for more electronics or battery.
It's not to save space. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA . There is just plastic sitting in its place and it is possible to add headphone jack, without making it thick.
So far, life without a headphone jack has been fine. I don't charge my phone while I use my headphones, and I just keep the dongle attached to my wired headphones. Used some USB-C headphones that came in the box today, and they also worked well.
There are real use cases which aren't supported, but it seems like they come from a vocal minority. And I'm not sure we should be solving these use cases with a (largely) single use port that takes up a noticeable amount of space.
Phones used to ship with IR blasters, but that doesn't really happen any more, and if you want that, you get an adapter.
Maybe I'll change my tune if my adapter breaks regularly, but I needed to replace my cheap wired headphones semi-regularly already.
My experience with my last phone, where the audio jack started losing a connection if I bumped the jack, or tried to reposition the wire also makes me look more fondly on the idea of wireless headphones, since I'm aware that the jack is not perfect tech either.
And in any case, there are still manufacturers making phones with headphone jacks, so vote with your wallet! It is sad that phones are these bundles of tech and you can't just order a phone with a headphone jack, but if this is really a deciding feature, people should definitely vote with their wallet here!
Removing the audio jack helped make the phone waterproof, which could be pretty vital. The decision is complicated because we're comparing the tangible loss of the audio jack against the intangible gain of a lower prevalence of water damage for iPhones.
Apple and Google seem to have approached removing the headphone jack, not as a way to reduce costs to the customer by eliminating an obsolete feature they don't use but, instead, as a way to increase the money they can squeeze out of customers by forcing them to replace perfectly good headphones they are currently using with new headphones hopefully made by Apple or Google.
I'm honestly not surprised by this. Headphone technology hasn't really changed for many decades. A good pair of cans made a very long time ago are probably still a good pair of cans. I have some Audio Technica woodies that I absolutely love and are still going strong after more than a decade. To Apple and Google, this is a state of affairs that cannot be allowed to stand! Where's the planned obsolescence and constant product turnover? Apple tried to make their earbuds a disposable commodity that need to be replaced frequently, but people caught onto the fact that it was just due to bad build quality and kept buying stuff from other companies. So, change up the connectors and force wireless standards that are, quite frankly, not that good for audio and ripe for eventual upgrade (i.e. bluetooth) into headphones so people won't be able to use the same pair for decades. Profit!
So what should consumers do if they like their current headphones or just don't want to deal with adapters, charging bluetooth devices, or sorting out multiple incompatible connectors? Buy phones that still have headphone jacks, like the Samsung S9.
I hate the direction they are moving with the port situation on their products, which is to nickel and dime you for the privilege of using different connections. I can buy a brand new iPhone and macbook, and come home with no way to connect them with the supplied cables, I need to buy a dongle. I can't use the same headphones with my computer and phone anymore, either; apple doesn't include the 3.5mm dongle with their phones anymore and instead would gladly tack on $10 for 1-inch of cable that should have never existed on this earth in the first place.
Its sad to see the contortions my boyfriend makes to support his purchase of a headphone jack free android, despite his desire for high quality audio (he hates bluetooth with a passion). USB C to 3.5mm adapters are cheap, but break at the drop of a hat. His integrated speaker meanwhile has blown, and makes for terrible calls.
Headphone jacks serve a useful purpose, most phones could still have them without compromising other properties, but its been made fashionable to go without.
Reminds me recently when I was out and was asked to use my phone to play some music through one of those external speakers for an event, went to plug the cable in to my phone... Oh that's right, my new Pixel 2 requires a dongle which no one carries around with them.
fashionable implies people are making a choice. i guess you can say they are, somewhat, but... if you want larger storage and good camera in a portable device while maintaining any investment in a particular ecosystem... you have to do without a jack.
i've stuck with my iphone se and plan to for a while longer, hoping apple will eventually put out another device with headphone jack. or perhaps i can find an android device i like well enough that still has a jack (those seem to be harder to find too)
If he desires high quality audio he should buy a separate DAC/Amp or a dedicated audio player. DACs in cell phones are mediocre at best and you can get better sound (and headphone jack support) elsewhere.
Rather than getting into the ins and outs of why they did it, who misses the jack, who doesn't, why can't we just agree based on the wealth of commentary here and elsewhere that for a significant minority - possibly even a very large minority - this removal represents a disproportionately high impact change?
It's like admitting that people are entitled to mourn the removal of the jack is part of a slippery slope toward admitting that Apple - gasp - made a mistake, and that's just untenable.
Apple makes a ton of money from this - they're one of the main BT headphone vendors - so I actually don't consider it a mistake on their part (they know exactly what they are doing) but for other manufacturers it makes no sense. No-one buys a phone because it has no jack. Some people though will rule phones out for dispensing with the jack. So why do they do it?!
For me for example, it's literally the first thing I now consider: I will not buy a jack-less phone while alternatives are available. Don't care about camera, brand, etc - any mid range Android with a jack will pretty much suit me.
As a owner of a mid range Android phone with a phone jack, I had the same opinion. But now I see there's more to it, the quality of the DAC makes a huge difference.
Interesting - which devices have you found to be good and bad, and how does the difference manifest?
I tend to notice drop offs for sampling bit rate, and can hear the difference with Bluetooth, but I've personally never connected to any device playing decent quality streams/downloads and noticed a difference. Not saying no-one can notice it, just find it interesting I've never done so!
FWIW I listen through some AKG 550s, which I can highly recommend.
Readit News
Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old father and showed him how to use it, in preparation for his "headphone jack-less" future. After about a month (he lives in China, so I see him only a couple times a year), I asked him how it's going and he said he doesn't use them anymore because he just couldn't figure it out. I tried to explain "Turn on Bluetooth on your phone, then turn on your headphones, then hold down the button to pair, etc", but it was actually quite complicated because once he did this dance, 2 months later his phone restarted and bluetooth was off and we had to do it again. Software-wise, I can just send a link, but when it comes to hardware + software like printers, things become really challenging to explain.
I bring this up because if we're moving to the "wireless" world, we need to really consider accessibility for the elderly. My father ended up throwing away these really expensive Beats headphones, went to his local market and bought some cheap Sony headphones and is now listening fine. I'm not really sure what's going on happen when his next phone doesn't have the headphone jack.
I had a friend sync with my car bluetooth-stereo, it took a while and from the steering wheel I couldn't be of enough help. But it worked in the end, was quite frustrating though.
Then later when I tried to use my phone again it had been lost from the receiver (eventhough it can support two concurrent connections and I've only ever paired with two devices). So now I had to go through the whole dance that it was only paired in one device.
Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster. After a minute of fiddling with it I remembered I had an AUX cable. And then I could patiently fix it when I had time for it.
Bluetooth is a nightmare for temporary connections. Removing the headphone-jack is akin to removing a fire-alarm system because "it isn't used anyway". Well, the times you need it it is indispensable and it doesn't cost anything.
And the problem is that this happens regularly unless you never switch any device, which in reality doesn't happen, because nobody wants to buy nice headphones for every audio source. Bluetooth is a mess, and I'm glad I stayed with headphone jacks so far.
Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster.
In 2008, Apple introduced iPhone and promised us a future where everything "just works," and where the user and UX are paramount. Taking stock of the last decade, we're basically back to The Inmates are Running the Asylum.
http://a.co/d/59GsyEk
I think it's cyclic. The rejected "IBM guy" in the short sleeved shirt portrayed in the Steve Jobs biopic was once the innovative young turk. Now, the typical mobile and web app developer are that "IBM guy," just with a different set of subcultural aesthetics and a different over elaborated UX language which has left ordinary users behind.
It's very telling that about half the time, I start getting hidden contempt from developers when I give them feedback. They're never wrong. I'm obviously deficient and dim. Never mind that I'm a programmer, and I'm pretty darn good at predicting how fellow engineers think. About half the time, that's where the developer starts from. No questions. No curiosity. It's just like in the old days when the command line was the fancy new easier interface. It's the same as long after GUI interfaces hit a wider public and the public started grousing about computer help desks.
(Directed to the 3rd party reader: Don't be that programmer. Seek not so much to be understood, as to understand.)
Seriously? Both OSes knew the version of the bluetooth protocol they needed to use to communicate, and it still doesn't work? Never had that problem with a headphone jack.
I second that. I use my Bluetooth headphones on three devices. But I can only save two connections. So one device I always use via jack to avoid having to repair several times a day.
Am I missing something? There's still a headphone port on phones, it's just not dedicated. People can still plug headphones in to their phones right? I'm asking because the tone of these comments makes it seem like new phones have removed the ability to listen to music without bluetooth.
Don't get me started on the cryptic pairing manual in the glove compartment.
Jacks are more reliable and definitely plug-and-play. Unless it has a physical failure, your jack socket always just works. As you state it, bluetooth requires you to "Turn on Bluetooth on your phone, then turn on your headphones, then hold down the button to pair, etc", for no benefit. Oh, and now you need batteries on your headphone.
Look at professional musicians: you won't find anybody connecting his guitar to the amp through bluetooth. They are using good old wires and jack sockets: why is that? Are they too old?
Latency. When you're making music and interacting with it directly, you can't afford any noticeable latency. When you're passively listening to it, that doesn't really matter. For phone/tablet users the main place this matters is games, due to their interactive nature.
Aside from exercise, there isn't one.
OTOH, as you note, there are a large number of serious drawbacks -- battery failures being the biggest and most obvious. The other thing is that, heretofore, you could rely on a dumb audio jack if you wanted to play music with almost any device. Now you're limited to things with Bluetooth, and you have to extend some amount of trust in making that connection.
I use almost exclusively higher-end headphones -- say, $300 and up. Bluetooth has effectively zero presence in that market. There's a reason for this.
I also own AirPods, but their job is about 60% gym and 40% conversations. For serious listening, I reach for the Grados or the Etymotics or the Sennheisers.
The first example that comes to mind is Angus Young, who has said that he considers his wireless rig to be part of his "sound". If any rock musician qualifies as "old", well, Angus ain't running around on stage like he used to. Anyway, that's just one example. Pros use wireless rigs all the time. They're not BT, though.
I am having a lot of trouble with my works laptop /docking station using usb for skype - To the point where I am going to try brining in a real sound card and use one of my Shure dynamic mics with a 1/4 inch jack
What does that mean? What would it mean if I said "Unless it has a physical failure, your car always just works"?
I've had lots of problems with wired headphones and jacks. More often it's the headphone that's the problem, but I've have several issues with the jacks themselves. They can get stuff jammed into them, but they can also just not work properly. I don't know why exactly, but I've had it happen.
The Bluetooth standard is trash; no stack/device [combination] just works as it's supposed to do.
If BT worked, I think accessibility would pose no problem; ultimately, the intended workflow is: 1. turn on BT on the host device (if required); 2. turn on the client device; 3. listen to music.
As the BT committees and implementers keep pushing features rather than taking care of the stability, for a stable BT to ever happen, it would require all of them to be exiled and replaced by a new generation; I don't think this will ever happen.
how does that work in a crowded space, e.g. public transport, where I'd wager most people are using BT headsets nowadays ?
It may take a while to get used to a different OS, but I've seen my parents switching between iPhone and Android without problems so I don't think your father (about the same age) will have more difficulties.
The problem is that App Store performance is a much noisier feedback channel back to Cupertino.
Also at the end of the day I think there are adaptors that convert the jack into whatever port your phone has. I know it’s not ideal as you get more pieces to carry around and you might lose them but again there is a solution.
Also I have to state the fact that I was highly against not having a headphone jack as I own several pairs of good headphones with jacks and also I just didn’t like that change. I adapted and tbh I am much happier with Wirless headphones right now and not having those cables around me. Battery life could improve which am sure it will with time and I won’t need to charge them every so often but over all I am admitting that I was mistakenly thinking that wireless headphones and no jack sucks.
But why do you want to get rid of the headphone jack? For iPhone, this is a direct downgrade, loss of very useful functionality. That's why people are complaining; while companies seem to like trading utility for fashion all the time, this case was unprecedently blatant.
> Also at the end of the day I think there are adaptors that convert the jack into whatever port your phone has.
That's the trick though. Someone's gonna make money on the adapters :). Also, I start to think this was a move meant to "disrupt" the headphones market. Suddenly the perfectly good headphones no longer work for a big and rich chunk of people, and out come new wireless options. The conspiracist in me wonders whether people responsible for this decision have any ties to people selling AirPods and their alternatives :).
Though it was (a tiny bit) more "magical" back then, pairing devices sucked then and still sucks.
Has anything even changed with how Bluetooth works?
Cause I keep giving Bluetooth new chances, "well it's X years later, and it still exists, surely they must have found a way to make it suck less"--and every time it's a disappointment. People still fiddling with pairing their devices, taking too much time, always at a most inconvenient moment (either in groups with everyone waiting and the device making funny noises, or when you're busy with the task Bluetooth was meant to free your hands for).
Did they fix or improve anything about Bluetooth over the years? Cause it feels to me the attitude has always been what you said: people should just get used to it better. Because what Bluetooth promises sounds like an awesome idea and why shouldn't we have that? But the reality is that it sucks too much and people aren't getting used to it.
To constrast with Bluetooth, I also remember when Wifi started to appear. It also used to suck a bit. It was often difficult to connect to, very unreliable, connections dropping, etc. You wouldn't want to have to rely on it for connectivity, so bring an Ethernet cable for your laptop, just in case. But nowadays, Wifi works brilliantly. You can bring your laptop for a presentation and safely depend on there being Wifi (or your/someone's phone mobile hotspot). Even older people can connect to new Wifi networks (at a restaurant or friends') without too much trouble. And that's including having to select the correct network manually and type in a password.
Ask yourself this: You're at a new place, there's a Wifi network you haven't used before, but you know the name and password. Also there is a Bluetooth device that you have never connected to before. Which of these are you most confident about you can connect to and use without trouble?
Why is this different? Did Wifi improve in significant aspects in the past two decades where Bluetooth didn't? Why is that?
Unfortunately no, it will not. My father would have no conceptual issue operating a smartphone, but he does not have the dexterity required anymore, in fact he has issues just using a keyboard. These things happen with age, accessibility concerns aren't going to dissappear simply because people know how to operate the devices. FWIW, this is a man who knew how to touch-type, but as he has gotten older he is simply less dexterous. There is more to accessibility than just hoping people know how to use the software.
This is about what's good for Apple (and other companies making a similar change, plus the people who sell the peripherals), and not what's better for the users.
Gratuitous animation, new "social/platform" features, notification-spam, new "design languages", and etc. benefit the elderly even less than they benefit the rest of us - rather these things actively hurt them when basic things suddenly become confusing and difficult without warning. We've made digital technology mandatory for most people, and we've made it unnecessarily bewildering for a big subset of them, basically by pretending that all users are youngish, digitally-fluent, time-rich, and open to unasked-for "innovation".
My iPhone came with an adapter, though. I continue using the same headphones as I did with my old phone.
0: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17827970/no-more-free-iph...
Where this is particularly frustrating is when you are on a particularly long conference call and your phone starts to run out of charge. This happened regularly enough for me ditch the iphone.
I'm sure there yet another dongle you can buy to address this shortcoming though.
† five actually (100-300€ price range), two of which the cord is replaceable (which I did) but how long will that specific cord be available?
When I walk into the bathroom wearing my Bluetooth headphones, my podcasting app starts detecting disconnections and pausing, so I have to turn off the feature to stop playing on headset disconnect. This makes everything else work poorly. My podcast player also often crashes when I connect a Bluetooth device.
My problems get a lot worse when I try to pair a speaker or headphones with multiple devices. I often have to factory reset the device to get it to work again when switching sources.
I'm clearly not the only technically-minded person dealing with random nasty Bluetooth issues, as evidenced by this article and https://xkcd.com/2055/
Have they stopped including it? My latest iPhone is an iPhone X and it certainly came with the adapter, as well as the 7 I had before it.
(Digressing, I wonder how much radiation incidental WLAN use on a phone causes, compared to a bluetooth headset. I mean things like googleplay chancing to upgrade a few apps via WLAN while you're holding the phone against your ear.)
Where does the force come from? Are you required to use this kit for your job?
Or an overweight person, for that matter.
Actually you see several such persons. E.g.:
Ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPv9jFWhzGE
WWDC video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgk_Jawzdwk
Also Apple has the greatest accessibility track record (and tons of awards on such matters), and e.g. blind people etc swear by its products (as opposed to at it).
Blind person describing his use of iPhones etc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlbIF7IOb_Q
Or the "Designed for ..." series?
Meera https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d6zKINudi0
Andrea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoEUsUWihsM
Patrick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whioDJ8doYA
Todd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PoE9tHg_P0
?
1. https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/27/apple-honored-wit...
How about smokers, while we're at it?
Would this be too complicated too? You can get the EarPods with a lightning connector. If that’s too complicated then maybe you can draw a picture explaining it?
I have 2 really nice pairs of bluetooth headphones, and almost NEVER use them. Guess what pair gets used almost daily? my 15 year old beyerdynamic DT770s. 3.5mm or ¼" plug, closed back. Not really the most accurate, but a nice bass heavy rich sound and plenty loud. they work with gear that is 50 years old and brand new(so long as they include a headphone jack). I have vintage analog synthesizers 80s and 90s samplers to <2 year old digital synths. All work with these headphones.
Apple really really really really really really screwed up here. reverse course immediately.
Wireless things suck, I've never considered bluetooth for anything and I really, really hate my bluetooth keyboards. They have nice keys and petite builds, but I haven't used any of them for years now (one Apple, another also with great build). Can't be bothered for batteries, can't be bothered with bluetooth for different linux distros, desktop environments etc. Habits with technology are easily broken even when we don't want to. Give me wired or I'll go without. Also, Wi-Fi internet at home just sucks (IoT/SmartHome I won't even go into, much less that joke called SmartTV [give me regular TVs back please that don't look after me in goody two shoe or shady ways]). Whoever thought Wi-Fi everywhere was a good idea? Reach sucks, gives everyone on the block cancer. Let's stop spamming waves around people. They're not not noise, even if not perceived (microwaves for instance make me want to leap out of the room, it's like a screeching feeling.) I wish ethernet cables were still something people regularly setup, really wish.
I used not to hate technology, really did. Then the executives overdid it and the Wozniaks were put out on the side.
Well, it could be simpler, and more of a free market, if you could choose your OS across different brands instead of also having to change that, or if you didn't lose access to everything you have already bought for one OS's app marketplace.
There are plenty of things being done by the vendors in this space specifically to combat the effectiveness of the free market, because the free market is good for consumers and bad for short term company profits. Captive consumers are all the rage in the 2000's.
As a counterpoint, I think wires suck. They get in the way, they get tangled, I have to transport them, they break all too often, I trip over them, they knock things over when I move with them, they blow around in the wind, they present a fire risk and a safety risk, they have some kind of physical connection which keeps changing.
Downsides of wireless: remembering to charge, and configuration (a bit annoying if you have multiple devices).
I don't want to second-guess you, but that sounds more like a high-frequency sound from the microwave mechanism than anything directly caused by microwave radiation. Can you hear the "mosquito sound"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKl_sTh0oHE
However, I also really love my bluetooth headphones, and that's what I use when I'm not at my desk at home. They also work as wired headphones, but I acknowledge they are not affordable to most people. A charge lasts a really long time, and they have some nice features as well. I don't expect them to last 15 years, however.
I bought a specific pair of wired earbuds with a mic to use for conference calls using my phone (Android). Now that my phone is failing and I'm forced to upgrade, I'm a bit concerned that the USB-to-3.5mm dongle for the Pixel 3 may not be compatible w/ the mic in my earbuds. In pictures it looks like it has a proper tip-ring-sleeve configuration so it might work, but at this point I'm just crossing my fingers until I can test.
To get lower volume overall with Equalizer APO: install, reboot and change the Preamp line in EqualizerAPO/config/config.txt to -20 dB or whatever suits you. It should work as soon as you save.
Not sure, but it appears that the bypass around the amplifier (which requires power) is just not designed right.
I honestly don't care if I have a "headphone jack": I totally agree with Apple that it was a shitty jack. It was a fragile hole that made it impossible to waterproof the damned phone. How about they just give me two lightning ports? Or a lightning port and a USB-C port, to make my dreams finally come true of only having to carry around one (USB-C) cable while still getting to be compatible with all of the stuff Apple already sold for these devices?
Not anymore
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17827970/no-more-free-iph...
To paraphrase some marketing slogans from the days of yore:
IBM said "Think" [2]
Apple said "Think different" [3]
I say "Think wisely"
[1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/whyred
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_(IBM)
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_different
No, no, no. Can we please get rid of this adapter hell? It's awful and just way too much overhead. In every situation. No matter if phone or laptop
No need for a phone that requires an adapter. There are great phones that drive all audio gear nicely.
Those phones will win in the market too.
Cost / benefit ratio is more favorable. Has been, will continue to be, and that will be true because digital audio does nothing new.
Video does! We have great reasons for DV.
Those do not apply to audio. Ears are not like eyes.
Deleted Comment
If I were a company, I doubt I’d change course immediately unless the larger data set said something significantly in the other direction. As developers are still, even with our more frequent “upgrade” cycle, not the largest piece of the pie.
Anecdotally, the headphone jack loss negatively impacted 100% of the non-developerd I've talked to about it. Now, I recognize the particular skew to that experience that biases it to a negative impact—most of the people I've talked to about it happened to be ballroom dance instructors or students in a ballroom teacher training program at a studio where the routine was to plug your device in to the sound system via 1/8” plug (neither keeping the adapter permanently on the phone or on the studio sound system was a viable solution for any of them, so it was one more thing to forget, misplace, etc.)
But I suspect your 100% is also skewed. Anecdotal experience usually is.
How does removing the headphone benefit users? Also how does being a developer affect how one would listen to music on a phone?
I guess I can’t charge my phone and use headphones at the same time, but I really couldn’t before either considering the length of the charging cable.
But I guess you must always be charging your phone since the usbport is occupied?
I also have broken or lost over 3 adaptors now. This wasn’t broken and was pretty transparently done to increase the adoption rate of airpods IMO, so it is pretty frustrating. If I hadn’t had mind-blowing-ly bad experiences with samsung phones I would have jumped ship over this.
Thankfully I have a sensible phone, but what's the benefit to me in having a phone that can have sound output or charging but not both?
The only place this really makes sense is on a long haul flight when you want to make sure you have fully charged phone and listen to music while falling asleep.
Outside some niche uses, digital video really does make general sense. I hear and often agree with analog arguments. I keep analog gear, and in my own hardware projects will stay analog, perhaps also having digital, depending.
But, overall? People largely benefit more from digital video, and with the loss of the CRT, adoption makes sense. Digital only gear makes sense. I have no concerns and can easily use an analog adapter in a pinch.
With audio, it is inverted! A few niche uses benefit, most do not. They are equal or very modest gain at best.
Video gear seems to age out more quickly too. Increases in resolution drive all that, and analog limits do too. Above HDTV 1920x1080, analog has real issues.
Analog audio does not have those dynamics. There is no analog cliff to drive digital gear. Great stuff from the 70's remains entirely relevant. It always will. Ears are just not like eyes.
I will never, ever buy something that only delivers audio digitally.
I went online to get some help with what was revealed to be the infamous touch-ic issues, and I was told off in so many ways ("that's an old model, you should really get the new one", "if you get flexion based damage, you are using your phone wrong", "wow, another bend-gater. Stop bending your damn phone!").
This was after internal apple documents showed that they were aware of flexion damage before the phone was released to market.
I can see why someone who's never used wired earbuds wouldn't care one way or another, but I really don't understand this sort of attachment.
Works great.
This works great, until...
You leave the pair of headphones with the dongle behind by mistake and spend the rest of the day frustrated because you have access to a perfectly good pair of headphones but no the dongle.
Or you stick to one primary pair of headphones and are frequently taking the dongle on and off making it even easier to misplace or leave behind.
And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse.
The author also points towards active de-standardisation between Android and iOS:
"if only there was one universal audio port they both could use"
Apple gets an advantage from this with their iron-grip on compatible peripherals, but I don't know why any of the Android manufacturers would follow suit. The ugliness of the impracticality of fashion.
So I'm personally glad they've removed the headphone jack, because it will help push wireless into the mass market (and bring down prices) at a faster rate than it otherwise would have.
Now of course, there's lots of people who don't find it a positive like I do. My point is not that everyone should find the jack removal great, my point is that it's wrong to claim that it's a disadvantage for everyone.
On a separate note, people like to shit on Apple for that "courage" claim, but even if removing the jack was a bad decision, I think it's fair to call it a courageous one, because they knew well that they'd get a lot of shit for making that decision. Look at what gets said every time the headphone jack issue is brought up on HN.
Doing something you know will be unpopular is not automatically "courageous". Sometimes it's just stupid. I'm sure you can think of plenty of examples.
They are already in the mass market the problem is they suck.
I have tried a bunch of cheap Chinese bluetooth headphones that cost from $20-$60 they all sound like $5 wired headphones have about 2 hours battery life and break after a month.
I have tried bluetooth head phones that where $200 beats by drea they worked as well as the Chinese headphones they just cost 10 times the price.
Removing the headphone jack has forced people to spend a lot of money on shitty headphones, thats what your glad of.
I think the issue is that BT has always been a catastrophy in terms of ergonomy, today things are better but still a bit hazardous. Maybe a super simple wireless protocol for managing audio streams (and handling multiple sinks) would change that
And no, it's not courageous to do something dumb and getting skewered for being dumb is not evidence of courage.
every time I have had to use wired earphones since have been worse than if I had my AirPods on me
The obvious reason is a decrease in BOM which corresponds directly with an increase (however so slightly per unit) in margin. Apple made it "ok" to whack this functionality, so why wouldn't every manufacturer join in?
Eh, you could have said the same thing when they removed serial ports, 3.5" floppy drives, CD drives, etc. etc. etc.
Yes, the world is moving forward. Yes, it's a little inconvenient.
And yes, this was apparently Steve Job's idea, as he felt that fans were "too noisy and inelegant". I imagine that he felt that fans were holding humanity back, and smugly told people who disagreed that they were clinging to obsolete technology.
It got so bad, that Apple actually advised their customers to physically lift and drop their Apple IIIs to re-seat the chips that had popped out from the excessive heat.[2]
Of course, if today Apple decided that fans were obsolete again, and the latest Macbooks were twice as heavy and still overheated, then it would become the new normal, and it would be hard to find computers that had fans anymore, and we would long for the days when we could just use computers for as long as we wanted without worrying about them overheating. And on the internet, commenters would say that it wasn't a big deal at all, and if you were some sort of power user that wanted to use your laptop for more than a few hours at a time, you should buy a $250 cooling pad for it.
[1]: http://lowendmac.com/2015/apple-iii-chaos-apples-first-failu...
[2]: https://www.tekrevue.com/apple-iii-drop/
The use-case for the 3.5mm headphone jack is still well and truly within the mainstream, and will probably stay there for some time as per the comment in the blog:
the right pair of headphones was the pair of headphones in front of you, or in your pocket, or mangled at the bottom of your bag. It didn’t matter.
There's a lot of legacy-weight hanging around in people's houses, bags, and workplaces.
Your point, however, isn't completely lost on me. I still miss CD drives occasionally, having to retrieve an older laptop in order to grab data from a disc I haven't yet bothered to archive to an ISO file. However, removing a CD drive from a laptop feels like a much higher percentage space saver than losing the 3.5mm jack from a smartphone.
The world didn't care about wireless headphones until their wired option was taken away. It's a solution to a problem of their own making.
CTIA or OMTP?
I would have hated if the XS was thicker, or if it still had bezels.
But.. can't they just make a waterproof headphone jack??
Bluetooth?
But around once every 8 times I get into my car, I need to turn off/on Bluetooth on my car, my phone, or both to get it to connect. More rarely, I have to reboot my phone. I haven't used a Bluetooth headset with my phone in several years, but I had the same problem then.
So I don't think Bluetooth is that reliable "works every time" standard.
It would have been more effective if the author didn't cherry-pick only the facts which support his argument.
Apple's own 3.5mm -> lighting dongle is surprising resistant to water (I've spilled coffee on mine and it still works), but I can't find any information of whether the dongle itself is waterproof. I've looked.
Also, Samsung made a phone with a waterproof 3.5mm female port. They weren't the first.
Good old shortsightedness at play here. No one looks past this year or years to come when faced with changes. Here's what I think, based on history, is happening here:
# Wires are more bad than good for average consumer:
a. Neglected security based on assumption that since it's not wireless, it's immune to eavesdropping (think side-channel attacks). Wireless puts security upfront and center.
b. Cables get lost, break, are not long enough, are not compatible, damage the connectors, bad cables damage the device, cost extra, etc. Wireless doesn't.
c. Cables are cumbersome. They get tangled, you need to remember to carry them, have backups, etc.
d. Cables have short range.
Apple evidently cares quite a bit about user experience. Wires hurt user experience so they want to get rid of them, one by one. You can't push towards superfast, low power and generally more advanced mobile devices and accessories, if the industry has no reason to do so (because everything works and has for the past 50 years).
It's tiring reading every day how someone is upset because their favorite feature is gone because they can't see past their front door.
a. because wireless is less secure than wired.
b. loss and breakage isn't a wired-exclusive problem
c. backups? so long as you bring backup wireless things as well, no worries
d. Fair enough, but long cables are possible, and in regards to a smart phone, most people carry it on their person so it's not generally a problem - although the freedom to roam about the house with your phone on the counter while you're vacuuming is advantageous in those particular scenarios. Pending wireless range.
I think we've all benefitted somewhat from this attitude, even if it was inconvenient.
The distinction here is that the 3.5mm standard isn't/wasn't a computer peripheral standard. It is/was an audio industry standard. There are many uses for 3.5mm that have nothing to do with phones/tablets/laptops/desktops.
Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment. Audiophile and pro audio headphones (for example) represent a significant investment and are intended to last many years.
In my view, Apple's approach to this was a kind of chauvinistic hubris. No, I don't want to use a $15 adapter of dubious quality on my $1500 custom molded in-ear monitors. No, I can't just get a new pair. No, I can't re-sell them, they only fit my ears. No, they wouldn't sound the same even if a bluetooth version were to become available. No, I doubt the 4 person company that makes them is eager to try to figure out how to make a lightning version, even if they have the in-house expertise.
The decision really shows a lack of understanding of the world outside of computer manufacturing, and it is too bad others followed suit.
This I have studio headphones I bought in 1995 that I still use nearly daily (albeit not with my phone). I've replaced the earpads on them at least 5 times.
what is funny is that apple gave the excuse of wanting to save space getting rid of the audio jack. but my lg v35 has an audio jack and is thinner than and just as nicely designed as the iphone xs. additionally, lg actually has a high end audio dac in the phone, so music on my v35, and the v10 before it, sounds insanely good on my beyerdynamic headphones.
if i were to move to an iphone, apple would want to take these experiences away from me. and for what? pure hubris predicated on the business plan to sell more accessories like dongles and headphones mascaraed as design courage.
This is basically an arrogant move that can't really be technically justified. E.g. By arguing that better external options exist - better external cameras also exist, should we get rid of the camera too?
agree about deprecation, but what are the standards that they pushed on to the rest of the industry? i m not knowledgeable on the matter
In all the previous “radical changes”, they created a “better solution” to a problem. Take the removal of Floppies or CD drives, in both cases, the problem was getting data onto the machine efficiently. In both cases technology moved ahead and created better methods of moving data.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I fail to see what problem they really “solved” by removing the audio jack.
The problem solved was encouraging sales of some very expensive wireless earbuds. I really do think it was as simple as that.
Those who want Bluetooth wireless could just as easily have it on a phone with a jack without losing any benefit. They already did.
This means being able to include more/new co-processors, different/better microphone technology, etc, not just thinner.
Only what I've heard from other hardware engineers though, I do not work directly in the space. "Sell headphones," could absolutely be a goal.
The thinnest iPhone ever was the 6s, which had a headphone jack so that doesn't hold water.
The only justification that I know that works out is that by removing the headphone jack you do free up a bunch of space inside the phone, which can be used for more electronics or battery.
There are real use cases which aren't supported, but it seems like they come from a vocal minority. And I'm not sure we should be solving these use cases with a (largely) single use port that takes up a noticeable amount of space.
Phones used to ship with IR blasters, but that doesn't really happen any more, and if you want that, you get an adapter.
Maybe I'll change my tune if my adapter breaks regularly, but I needed to replace my cheap wired headphones semi-regularly already.
My experience with my last phone, where the audio jack started losing a connection if I bumped the jack, or tried to reposition the wire also makes me look more fondly on the idea of wireless headphones, since I'm aware that the jack is not perfect tech either.
And in any case, there are still manufacturers making phones with headphone jacks, so vote with your wallet! It is sad that phones are these bundles of tech and you can't just order a phone with a headphone jack, but if this is really a deciding feature, people should definitely vote with their wallet here!
I'm honestly not surprised by this. Headphone technology hasn't really changed for many decades. A good pair of cans made a very long time ago are probably still a good pair of cans. I have some Audio Technica woodies that I absolutely love and are still going strong after more than a decade. To Apple and Google, this is a state of affairs that cannot be allowed to stand! Where's the planned obsolescence and constant product turnover? Apple tried to make their earbuds a disposable commodity that need to be replaced frequently, but people caught onto the fact that it was just due to bad build quality and kept buying stuff from other companies. So, change up the connectors and force wireless standards that are, quite frankly, not that good for audio and ripe for eventual upgrade (i.e. bluetooth) into headphones so people won't be able to use the same pair for decades. Profit!
So what should consumers do if they like their current headphones or just don't want to deal with adapters, charging bluetooth devices, or sorting out multiple incompatible connectors? Buy phones that still have headphone jacks, like the Samsung S9.
Headphone jacks serve a useful purpose, most phones could still have them without compromising other properties, but its been made fashionable to go without.
fashionable implies people are making a choice. i guess you can say they are, somewhat, but... if you want larger storage and good camera in a portable device while maintaining any investment in a particular ecosystem... you have to do without a jack.
i've stuck with my iphone se and plan to for a while longer, hoping apple will eventually put out another device with headphone jack. or perhaps i can find an android device i like well enough that still has a jack (those seem to be harder to find too)
It's like admitting that people are entitled to mourn the removal of the jack is part of a slippery slope toward admitting that Apple - gasp - made a mistake, and that's just untenable.
Apple makes a ton of money from this - they're one of the main BT headphone vendors - so I actually don't consider it a mistake on their part (they know exactly what they are doing) but for other manufacturers it makes no sense. No-one buys a phone because it has no jack. Some people though will rule phones out for dispensing with the jack. So why do they do it?!
For me for example, it's literally the first thing I now consider: I will not buy a jack-less phone while alternatives are available. Don't care about camera, brand, etc - any mid range Android with a jack will pretty much suit me.
I tend to notice drop offs for sampling bit rate, and can hear the difference with Bluetooth, but I've personally never connected to any device playing decent quality streams/downloads and noticed a difference. Not saying no-one can notice it, just find it interesting I've never done so!
FWIW I listen through some AKG 550s, which I can highly recommend.