Bergen municipality released a 25 minute video[0] of the bike ride through the tunnel and into the downtown area of Bergen.
If 'sakte TV' or slow TV is something you like, I could also recommend checking out The Bergen Line minute by minute[1], which is a seven hour broadcast of the train going between Bergen and Oslo. A peaceful and beautiful train ride.
Snoqualmie Tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Hze1R8Gg8 (more of a hiking trail, but you can bike it if you have lights). Not purpose-built; it's an old train tunnel.
Is there any reason why the tunnel is curved instead of straight? It's probably cheaper if it were straight (less rock to dig), so there must be a reason for the curve.
Well, most of Europe is south of Norway, and there's a lot of comparable cycling culture and facilities there.
Unless you mean south of the equator, like here in Australia, but unfortunately we're not so good with that. I can't speak to much of the rest of the south (of the equator) unfortunately.
As someone that has enjoyed Minneapolis St Pauls heavily interconnected bike path system, and then goes to uber-car-centric southern areas (not even shoulders on the roads to support bikes), it blows my mind, especially some place like Houston.
You don't even have "real winter"! It is far easier on a bike dealing with rain than dealing with six inches of snow and packed ice. Four seasons of bike trips! Don't they know what they are missing?
And with e-bikes and the like, you don't even need to worry about getting sweaty in the 100 degree heat. Instead it is an awesome breezy trip.
Houston for example has the beginnings of this: a big path down some stream/water transport that splits down the middle of the city (Macgregor or something like it. A built in ebike crosscity-thoroughfare, you just need to urban plan some extension bike lanes and boom the city is 10x more bikeable.
But Houston is, for example, forbidden by the Texas legislature from funding any mass transportation, because the Texas GOP is ... insane. Well, everything in Texas is insane.
The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements.
The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week
Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot.
Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical.
Yeah, the potential loading is annoying.
I remember wondering why predestrian/cycle bridges were always so annoyingly narrow despite having low loads.
The issue is of course that they have to be strong enough to support being crammed with hundreds of people when everyone is there to watch the local fireworks/rowing race/anything else that's happening, even if that happens almost never.
Ok I'm clearly talking to an expert here but isn't there a factor of vibration from vehicle traffic to take into account? And sure humans if packed into a bridge might be heavier than cars per square foot, but they're usually not packed like sardines on a bridge.
> Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical.
In terms of maximum load you are right, but wear and tear is completely different.
Trucks are terrible, pedestrians and bikes have zero impact.
Tell that to the engineers of the Millennium Bridge in London. Resonance from foot traffic caused it to start swaying, requiring shoring up with massive dampers.
No matter the traffic, a bridge should always be built to avoid resonance. Unstable dynamical systems do not care if it's a truck or a feather, they'll resonate and collapse.
>But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week
There are some Roman bridges that still get automobile traffic (Römerbrücke, Puente Alcántara) or were only recently pedestrianized (Puente Romano). There are more probably, that's just what I found after skimming some Wikipedia pages.
Indeed, if we assume cyclists use the tunnel 100 days a year going both ways through it, thats saving each one nearly 60+ hours a year. If each one's time is worth $20, that is over a thousand dollars per cyclist per year - it only takes 9k cyclists to make the savings outweigh the costs in five years.
One of the factors other replies haven't considered is that Norway routinely spends a lot on transport infrastructure, with cost-benefit just one of the factors. This project was relatively cheap compared to the constant building of tunnels for cars that happens across the country. A typical project costs many times more than this.
Per capita Norway is one of the highest spenders in the world, due to the size and low population density of the country. Even with all this spending, transport in some places, especially the north, is slow & inefficient. This has resulted in a high number of airports and Norwegians flying more than almost every other nationality.
Strange, I have never heard of a separate escape tunnel for a tram tunnel. Even German U-Bahn/S-Bahn (which I am most familiar with) tunnels usually just have a walkway beside the tracks that leads to the next station or emergency exit. But I guess that also depends on length between possible stations/exits, or it's due to newer regulations, or maybe it was a "mixed calculation" ("if we build a separate tunnel, it's more expensive, but it can also be used as a bike/pedestrian tunnel").
Subway tunnels usually aren't that far from the surface, even those that dive/rise between stops. So they just dot in a few emergency stairs to the surface if stops are too far apart. This tram tunnel however apparently is a shortcut through some mountain (because otherwise, the bike sibling wouldn't make much difference), so the emergency exit problem isn't easily solved by digging vertically.
The problem here is similar to underwater tunnels. Making an emergency exit straight up is not possible or too expensive.
In this case it is too expensive/unpractical as you would have to dig several hundred meters up a mountain. Also a tunnel going sideways is easier for those who can not walk. And this long stairs up could be a problem even to those who can walk.
For those who don’t know the tunnels goes through a 477m high mountain/hill and both ends are roughly at sea level.
It depends on the length of the tunnel, the traffic in the tunnel, and various other requirements.
Older tunnels the "walk away from the dead train" option was heavily used; but more often now they try to deal with "get away from the horribly burning dead train that will suffocate everyone".
Rotherhithe tunnel in London screams to be repurposed this way -- to become "colorfully lit, art-lined" thing where psychologists give input on how to make it more welcoming
Yeah, London needs more pedestrian/cycle options to cross the Thames - it’s a huge barrier in some areas.
For example, a tunnel (or bridge!) between Canary Wharf and the Rotherhithe peninsula, replacing the existing passenger ferry, would have huge economic benefits by encouraging development of a relatively under-developed area.
The Greenwich foot tunnel is a great asset, and despite not being very cycle-friendly is very popular with cyclists too.
To cross the river in East London you have 2 options: the Greenwich foot tunnel, or the Woolwich one.
Indeed they're great assets but it's incredibly awful when the lifts are broken - and it happens frequently.
Either of them are a huge diversion depending on where you're going as well. If there was a cycle-friendly crossing around where Blackwall tunnel is, I reckon my rides to The Reach would be cut by nearly half.
> There's no political force to make actual improvements in London, or in the UK as a whole.
HS2 was an attempt at an infrastructure project for the long term greater good but quickly devolved into nothing but bad news cycles.
Everyone is too busy flinging shit and whipping out soundbites to actually do anything, in part because anything worthwhile is hard and mistakes are more punishing than not trying?
It all just feels so inevitable and I don't understand what stops other countries getting into the same spiral of short termism
Same as the economics field no? If more than 2/3 find it 'welcoming' than I'd count that as win. Hopefully the taxpayers didn't get charged an arm and leg.
The most dangerous thing about psychology is not just being full of un-replicable reseach but being forced by governments as a source of common sense with "doctors" licensed as a real doctors. So I feel that minuses in your karma.
Designers can do anything more welcoming by use some special colors and shapes though.
I'm jealous. If my country built a tunnel like that, it would be for cars only (preferably old polluting diesel, with fuel subsidies), so that "normal people" can use it. With an added whiff of coal power plant smoke.
There is crazy entitlement of cars to the detriment of everything else. It's like privilidge/something-ism.
In Uk there is a particular crossing where cars were frqeuently hitting pedestris on the pavement, and traffic authority decided againt putting up bollards becauae cars might get damaged.
So its more important to keep a car undamaged than to keep people/children safe.
We've had people cut up bollards with an angle grinder. Bollards in the shape of a large planter was soaked in petrol and burned to the ground
Nobody cares, noone is charged and this does not even make the news.
Sounds a lot like Central or Eastern Europe. I'm optimistic and believe that in about 10 to 15 years you will have caught up with Western European pedestrian and cycle infrastructure. You might even surpass them due to first-mover disadvantage.
In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized.
A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night.
Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.
I saw something in the news today that the gemeente has earmarked €100m for the bridge, 1/3rd of the total (another 100m coming from another source, and the remaining to be raised.) Bike tunnels under the IJ apparently (so I recall reading, anyway) also have the issue that to have not too steep slopes at the end, the entry/exit points will have to be a reasonable distance from the water itself.
Haha but yeah they always have some sort of plan. Not long ago, maybe 5 years ago, a bicycle bridge was pretty close, I created the site where the people living could vote on different options of the bridge, but they also needed approvement from the national governemnt because it affects the water way and they didn't approve: https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/207386/javabrug-definitief-van-...
It wasn't the best plan anyway, was too far from CS close to Pakhuis de Zwager.
But the new plan is even more ridiculous, they want to create it at Azartplein now.
But keeps happening. Too many stakeholders, and lack of urgency.
Yeah the steepness is also a problem, few designs proposed had a spiral down from the station, looked pretty cool. Others had a sort of bike lift, and indeed others made it start between Dam square and Central station.
Btw bridge also deal with steepness issues, since they have to be pretty high, and in most cases also have to be able to open.
I wonder how the cost of one policeman posted there every night for 50 years compares to continuing to run 24/7 ferries. Specially dilluted on top of the cost of building the tunnel itself.
In suppose it's not a question of money, but the lack people willing to take such a position. It's not a glamorous job and most have better things to do with their time.
In Rotterdam they close the Maastunnel to cyclists and pedestrians at night. There are also people stationed in it during the day at either end. I don't see why Amsterdam couldn't do the same.
A tunnel that you can't use at night makes it significant less useful. I really enjoy returning home by bike at night when public transport has stopped or is running on significantly reduced capacity.
What sort of civil society groups are there advocating for this kind of infrastructure in Norway?
I’m always curious how people organize to achieve these outcomes. I live in a medium sized city in the US that is badly in need of better cycling infrastructure. There are a few organizations here, but vision is lacking or has been beaten out of them. I’d love to have some sort of organizing / policy toolkit that factors in experience from successful campaigns for systems like this.
The civil society groups and local governments that advocate for this sort of thing exist in the US too.
What Norway doesn't have (and much of Europe) is a powerful auto lobby that has prevented this sort of infrastructure for decades and forced cities to be built in giant suburban sprawls.
In germany, the car industry is way more important and powerful then in the US and it was able to prevent the EU ban on combustion engines, and yet germany has more walkable cities then the US.
There was also a specific path of development that many cities took in the mid-20th century that make public transit development now very difficult. Carving up downtown areas of cities with Parkways/Expressways/Highways, pushed heavily by influential urban planner Robert Moses in New York State, and copied in many other major US cities, makes it difficult to move from one area of a city to another without a car. The building of massive, unattractive public housing projects, and the hollowing out of urban areas due to redlining and “white flight” to the suburbs, now leave huge swaths of urban cities with decades of underinvestment. And finally, you have the massive suburbs, that take more money to build and maintain than they put back in through taxes, which causes a parasitic drain on the urban centers funds to spend on improved transit that isn’t focused on more car infrastructure to “keep up” with more and more cars streaming in and out from those suburbs.
Readit News
If 'sakte TV' or slow TV is something you like, I could also recommend checking out The Bergen Line minute by minute[1], which is a seven hour broadcast of the train going between Bergen and Oslo. A peaceful and beautiful train ride.
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42q15E2YE8Y [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udF0IXB2FZA
- Rotterdam's Maas Tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6UUinjhQgM
- Antwerp's Kennedytunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CsUnQ5BY0
- Paris' Parc des Rives de Seine's tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAIXHVolUmg
- England's Tyne Tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR4je-ndz7E
- Nam Han River's tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFNrxpeLtAU
- Lyon's Tunnel de la Croix-Rousse, with yours truly pedalling through it: https://youtu.be/JDvBNsVMkRc?list=PLBcwv3gb0JkpDlYfh-yfBWqtS...
https://blog.historicenvironment.scot/2021/02/innocent-railw...
Well, most of Europe is south of Norway, and there's a lot of comparable cycling culture and facilities there.
Unless you mean south of the equator, like here in Australia, but unfortunately we're not so good with that. I can't speak to much of the rest of the south (of the equator) unfortunately.
You don't even have "real winter"! It is far easier on a bike dealing with rain than dealing with six inches of snow and packed ice. Four seasons of bike trips! Don't they know what they are missing?
And with e-bikes and the like, you don't even need to worry about getting sweaty in the 100 degree heat. Instead it is an awesome breezy trip.
Houston for example has the beginnings of this: a big path down some stream/water transport that splits down the middle of the city (Macgregor or something like it. A built in ebike crosscity-thoroughfare, you just need to urban plan some extension bike lanes and boom the city is 10x more bikeable.
But Houston is, for example, forbidden by the Texas legislature from funding any mass transportation, because the Texas GOP is ... insane. Well, everything in Texas is insane.
The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week
Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot.
Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical.
(edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7...)
In terms of maximum load you are right, but wear and tear is completely different.
Trucks are terrible, pedestrians and bikes have zero impact.
Pedestrian and bike infra for majority of cases in dense areas is objectively better in all metrics except human laziness and entitlement
There are some Roman bridges that still get automobile traffic (Römerbrücke, Puente Alcántara) or were only recently pedestrianized (Puente Romano). There are more probably, that's just what I found after skimming some Wikipedia pages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_bridge
If that would be the case, armys would still march on bridges. But they don't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broughton_Suspension_Bridge
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
$46M USD, to save cyclists 5.5km/20 minutes; that seems like a pretty good return.
Per capita Norway is one of the highest spenders in the world, due to the size and low population density of the country. Even with all this spending, transport in some places, especially the north, is slow & inefficient. This has resulted in a high number of airports and Norwegians flying more than almost every other nationality.
That obviously depends on a lot of parameters, not least how many cyclists are impacted and how often.
In this case it is too expensive/unpractical as you would have to dig several hundred meters up a mountain. Also a tunnel going sideways is easier for those who can not walk. And this long stairs up could be a problem even to those who can walk.
For those who don’t know the tunnels goes through a 477m high mountain/hill and both ends are roughly at sea level.
Older tunnels the "walk away from the dead train" option was heavily used; but more often now they try to deal with "get away from the horribly burning dead train that will suffocate everyone".
For example, a tunnel (or bridge!) between Canary Wharf and the Rotherhithe peninsula, replacing the existing passenger ferry, would have huge economic benefits by encouraging development of a relatively under-developed area.
The Greenwich foot tunnel is a great asset, and despite not being very cycle-friendly is very popular with cyclists too.
Indeed they're great assets but it's incredibly awful when the lifts are broken - and it happens frequently.
Either of them are a huge diversion depending on where you're going as well. If there was a cycle-friendly crossing around where Blackwall tunnel is, I reckon my rides to The Reach would be cut by nearly half.
HS2 was an attempt at an infrastructure project for the long term greater good but quickly devolved into nothing but bad news cycles.
Everyone is too busy flinging shit and whipping out soundbites to actually do anything, in part because anything worthwhile is hard and mistakes are more punishing than not trying?
It all just feels so inevitable and I don't understand what stops other countries getting into the same spiral of short termism
"The Youth", so rather tend to make things as colourful - sadly, as colourful they may be illegal.
*Banksy excepted.
I'm sure the psychology field is full of pseudo-scientific, un-replicable research into what makes something "welcoming"!
Designers can do anything more welcoming by use some special colors and shapes though.
Oh well. Growing civilized takes time.
In Uk there is a particular crossing where cars were frqeuently hitting pedestris on the pavement, and traffic authority decided againt putting up bollards becauae cars might get damaged.
So its more important to keep a car undamaged than to keep people/children safe.
We've had people cut up bollards with an angle grinder. Bollards in the shape of a large planter was soaked in petrol and burned to the ground
Nobody cares, noone is charged and this does not even make the news.
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a43249948/longest-cycle-tunne...
And the CNN article linked at the bottom has more pictures:
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/worlds-longest-cyclin...
A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night.
Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/04/28/amsterdam-pushing-eu100-millio...
It wasn't the best plan anyway, was too far from CS close to Pakhuis de Zwager.
But the new plan is even more ridiculous, they want to create it at Azartplein now.
But keeps happening. Too many stakeholders, and lack of urgency.
https://archive.is/p4UJA
https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/220208/amsterdam-zet-miljoenen-...
Btw bridge also deal with steepness issues, since they have to be pretty high, and in most cases also have to be able to open.
https://www.archdaily.com/868904/copenhagens-latest-piece-of...
I’m always curious how people organize to achieve these outcomes. I live in a medium sized city in the US that is badly in need of better cycling infrastructure. There are a few organizations here, but vision is lacking or has been beaten out of them. I’d love to have some sort of organizing / policy toolkit that factors in experience from successful campaigns for systems like this.
What Norway doesn't have (and much of Europe) is a powerful auto lobby that has prevented this sort of infrastructure for decades and forced cities to be built in giant suburban sprawls.