The 25-year import rule here, which bans Americans from importing vehicles from other countries unless they're 25+ years old, is just awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars.
It would be great to live completely car-free, but absent major changes to how we plan our cities, it's just a sad reality that cars are a necessary ingredient to life in the vast majority of America. To cope with this, I'd love to be able to import a kei car or van from Japan, or micro-sized European city cars, or even some of the very small EV city cars that we see in China... but I just can't, unless I want an overpriced pile of scrap from the 1990s.
It's all so much worse when you realize that the 25-year rule is a holdover from a grey-market import scare of the mid-1980s[0]: European carmakers, namely Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche, were having trouble in the US with people importing European models of their cars. There were some valid concerns around inconsistent modifications for US safety standards, but the main issue was clearly that these grey-market imports were cheaper than buying a US model from a dealer, so profits were being missed. Instead of fixing the pricing discrepancy, they just successfully lobbied the government to enact this draconian 25-year ban, and so to this day I can't have a 2020s Japanese kei car shipped to a US port at my expense because it'd be illegal to register it.
There's electric bikes in China that are more like a Vespa than anything. Commuting this way was pretty great when I owned one. The range is perfect for urban commuters, charging it at night is basically negligible in your power bill, it slips right past the cars so there's no such thing as traffic (whatever cars pass you, you pass them right back by the next red light), likewise parking is a non-issue as it takes a fraction of the space, and its so dirt cheap that even if its stolen or totaled or breaks its not a huge pain. It doesn't have trunk space but for an urban commute that doesn't matter much. There's just enough under-seat storage for a laptop and some stationary. Look into it, the import laws on cars probably don't apply, and if they do even with tariffs the vehicle is so dirt cheap to begin with you may as well eat the cost. It cost a low 3-digit US dollar value back when I bought one.
You mean fat-tired e-bikes? I see them a lot in Amsterdam too. They're definitely more like mopeds and scooters than bikes, unlike regular e-bikes that pretend to be bikes. I'm not sure which ones I prefer (I'm not a fan either way), but they're both a massive improvement over the old fuel-burning two-stroke mopeds and scooters. (By Dutch law, two-stroke engines didn't have to meet the same pollution rules as 4-stroke engines, so these things were pretty dirty.)
I don't have a good impression of chinese electric bikes. They don't make very much noise behind you (unless they have a speaker) and the people driving them are often doing dubious things that maybe the bike shouldn't be doing, like balancing a bunch of empty water bottles.
But I guess I feel the same in SEA where instead of electric bikes you have to contend with a sea of gas mopeds.
That rule ain't changing unfortunately. Regulatory capture is STRONG with automotive and the US sees it as a matter of national security (car makers would be pivoted to other ares in times of war).
This isn't necessarily regulatory capture or protectionism.
Half of all cars sold in the US are imported. Toyota, a Japanese company, is the most popular brand of car sold in the US.
So, yes, you can import cars all you want, they just need to follow US safety and emissions standards. These cars do not meet those requirements, so you can't import them.
If you didn't block them as imports, we'd have lots of people just go to Mexico and buy highly-polluting vehicles to save money, and our problem with smog in the border states would be much worse.
Regulatory capture sucks and seems like one of those problems that's deeper and more prevalent than people realize.
I'm interested in learning where it was actually _curtailed_ in some measurable way e.g. due to the public pushing back, or other reasons. If you know of resources/studies on the pushback story, assuming there is one, would be appreciated.
We love our quirky, slow 1993 Mitsubishi JB500 campervan (https://www.instagram.com/finnthejb500/), but the experience is not for everyone. We were able to register it in Washington without too much hassle. It definitely pays to do some research and try to find a local-ish mechanic willing to work on them before you make the purchase.
> [...] awful for those of us who would be interested in driving small, efficient foreign cars.
I currently drive a small efficient car, but I'm seriously contemplating buying an electric SUV for my next car, even though I've no use for it. I don't drive a lot, but every time I drive, I see drivers on their phones, drivers who don't signal, drivers who race the lights, drivers who don't turn their head lights on at night, and other general poor situational awareness, etc. etc. And about once a month I see someone run the red light by a _large_ margin.
By absolute measurements SUVs are worse in most metrics including safety, but alas prisoner's dilemma prevails. No amount of defensive driving on my part is gonna trump physics, if / when my tiny hatchback gets T-boned by a lifted truck.
You can still find plenty of amazing vehicles, in great condition in the South of Europe. The weather there is great and cars don’t deteriorate as much. I see plenty of Toyotas and Hondas from pre 97 models. They still cost around 3-4 K EUR probably because they are such an easy maintenance that they will still drive for another decade and that’s priced in.
Please, don't buy our cars here in Spain. Most of people here, specially young people, cannot afford a new car with our 1100€/month after taxes of mininal wage and our 350€/room /month (in cheap places) on the flats we usually live.
With that situation, we usually buy cars before 2005 or so, and we pay those 3k to 4k euros in those, and usually with over 250 000 km (155 000 miles). Depending on the model, they even can be more expensive than people would think: A late 90s Nissan Terrano would cost from 6k to 7k, and my current car, a Korean one that cost about 13k in 2012, now cost from 9k to 11k (unless it has too much mileage or isn't in a decent shape).
It is just cargo cult. The value of these old Toyota and Honda makes no sense. I was looking to buy an old Toyota because of the hype on internet, but there are not a lot of them being in Europe, and 70% of them had an engine issue (threads holding head gasket were missing, common issue on aluminium engine).
At one point, I pondered buying a Toyota previa with this head gasket issue for 3K and planed to repair it myself. Fortunately I got my sense back and bought a Renault Scenic with no issue at all, 2K and I managed to have also the timing belt replaced.
Yes, internet thinks that because it is a French car, it will crumble. Well internet, so far it had no issue and its head gasket is intact.
You can import new tiny cars and drive them all you want on a farm or private grounds, you just can’t take them on roads if they don’t meat road safety standards.
Even the advocate highlighted in this article (Economist) admits his would probably be a “death trap” on a busy highway.
Maybe the US should create separate standards for city streets and roads with low speed limits, that could be a good way to bring down vehicle sizes. But just allowing these things just anywhere seems like a recipe for increased fatalities. For every HN reader who would use theirs wisely there are 10 average Americans who would risk maiming.
> Maybe the US should create separate standards for city streets and roads with low speed limits, that could be a good way to bring down vehicle sizes.
> You can import new tiny cars and drive them all you want on a farm or private grounds, you just can’t take them on roads if they don’t meat road safety standards.
If they don't pass emissions, they cannot be legally imported. It doesn't matter whether you want to use them on private property; that private property is still within the US, and subject to EPA regs.
People think the same thing about not having to register their snowmobile, ATV or whatever if they're hooning around on their farm or private property. Nope. State environmental cops will happily step onto your property, chase you down, and cite you.
The 25-year import rule serves as evidence of how the United States has struggled in competition and developing vehicles over the past several decades.
Toyota and Subaru are present in the United States because there is an incentive to manufacture them locally, which serves as a valuable learning experience for the US.
Thus the United States' car manufacturers are either perceived as being of low quality or lagging behind their competitors, leading to the country being utilized as a third-party for inexpensive assembly.
A) most cars manufactured by European and Japanese brands are built in Mexico and direct imported via NAFTA/USMCA. The fact that Toyota and Honda choose to continue to do manufacturing in the United States is probably seen as a boon to those local communities.
B) the "low quality" image of American brands is pretty limited to the United States, like a lot of American products (California wine, for instance, is generally bottom shelf in the US but well regarded internationally). In Russia, Ford used to be their top marquee. Ford and GM are both huge in Oceania. In LATAM, they're seen as a step up from Japanese and Chinese brands and Volkswagen. In Europe, they're not generally perceived as low-quality; instead, the perception is that they're too large and fuel inefficient for most European roads/cities.
That 25+ year rule also guarantees that the models are not going to be up to date to modern standards regarding pollution (though I'm not sure they've been updated in 25 years in the US) or safety (but extremely unsafe oversized trucks for personal use are allowed anyway, so apparently nobody really cares about safety).
I think the US needs to update a lot of rules regarding the sale, import, pollution and import of cars, including trucks. Require commercial licenses for the big stuff, have US manufacturers manufacture these practical small cars in the US according to modern US standards, and allow the import of vehicles that US manufacturers refuse to make.
Here in NZ we import a lot of 2nd hand Japanese vehicles (helps that we drive on the same side of the road), in the city I live the most popular EV is a 2nd hand Japanese Leaf - we have one for an around town day to day car (complemented by a 20 year old Prius)
This is called the "kit car" loophole, and some people have successfully used it (e.g. the Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R in The Fast & the Furious movie was brought over like this)
Nothing. If you're only going to use it non-commercially on private property, there's almost nothing stopping you. You can even have an entire tank shipped in as long as it doesn't have any shells [1] or secondary guns, and you don't have to take it apart or anything.
The question is: is it street legal and can you legally get it registered to drive afterwards? Once you ask that question, tons of regulations come into play ranging from axle weight to emissions standards to safety requirements.
[1] you gotta have an ATF destructive devices license and follow state specific laws if you want to fire the main cannon
Chickens, and spite. That's the official story.[1]
Unofficially, it's indirectly how we got the Civil Rights Act passed as a quid pro quo:
> In retrospect, audio tapes from the Johnson White House, revealed a quid pro quo unrelated to chicken. In January 1964, President Johnson attempted to convince United Auto Workers' president Walter Reuther not to initiate a strike just before the 1964 election and to support the president's civil-rights platform. Reuther, in turn, wanted Johnson to respond to Volkswagen's increased shipments to the United States.
The US has a huge internal market. But their reliance on international trade is small. Exports amount to less then 10% of their GDP [1]. As a comparison, France has the lowest amount of exports per GDP in the EU, and theirs is almost 30%. Germany's is 47%. For many smaller EU countries, it's even higher [2].
The US cares a lot about keeping international shipping lanes open (mainly because they used to rely on imported oil). But they are very protectionist, and always have been. International trade is just not that important to them.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/258779/us-exports-as-a-p...
[2] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS?end=2021...
Conservative US politicians (especially Trump) consider the economy is a zero sum game.
Whenever you buy from aboard, that's money and jobs that are lost to the USA.
So they want to export, but not to import!
And instead of banning the imports, they just set technical standards.
Like requiring specific bumpers and car height, and pollution standards, despite the fact US roads are deadlier and the US pollutes more than anywhere else.
Other countries are a bit more optimistic about international trade, and recognize they can't do everything.
Western Europe, for exemple, has focused on high added value engineering and office jobs, to outsource production to Eastern Europe and Asia.
And everyone has an engineering degree in here, so good luck to live on your factory job.
From the California DMV's web page on direct imported vehicles:
"If your direct foreign import vehicle was not originally manufactured to meet California emissions standards and DOT FMVSS, the vehicle cannot be registered in California, unless the vehicle is modified and tested under CARB’s direct import program."
Based on research that I done years ago, my understanding is that the modifications required to get many foreign vehicles to conform to California's emission standards, combined with the testing fees (which is far more expensive than the cost of a traditional biennial smog check), make it prohibitively expensive for casual buyers to legally register imported vehicles in California.
Some people get around this by registering their vehicles in other states where only the EPA 25 year rule applies; occasionally in California I do see cars with their steering wheels on the right side with Nevada or Oregon license plates. However, California generally requires its residents to have their vehicles registered in California.
One thing I'm curious about is whether California allows direct imported vehicles to be converted to run on battery-backed electric motors as a legal modification. If this is the case, then the vehicle would certainly pass the emissions test.
If it’s legal for BMW to import it’s cars and sell them, then it should be legal for Toyota to import it’s kei cars and sell them in the US right? You just can’t do it as an individual.
I would suspect that Japanese kei cars would not pass the safety requirements. Road speeds really are much slower over there. IIRC, the warning alarm on my kei car in the 90s would go off if I exceeded 90 km/h (about 55 mph).
Why stop there? If the Toyota Hillox is good enough for Al-Quaeda, why not import it for Americans? It lasts longer, is easier repaired, and is tougher than an f350.
Haha, if my country had a 25 year ban then there would be very few cars on the road and Germany would have to find some other place where to dump their used cars.
> but absent major changes to how we plan our cities,
People make this excuse all the time in australia too. I have never had a problem living all over, including small country towns, without a car. Excuses are bullshit for most people.
The 25-year import rule here, which bans Americans from importing vehicles
from other countries unless they're 25+ years old
That's not what the rule is. That's the end result because nobody wants to spend money to get a foreign market car to meet the relevant safety and emissions standards.
Yeah, that's completely right, but as you said in another comment, there's some real bullshit in the FMVSS that to me, a complete layperson, seems like it has the sole effect of blocking the certification of perfectly safe and clean modern vehicles from other advanced nations.
Of course we shouldn't be allowing people to import some pollution-spewing deathtrap that doesn't have seatbelts--the FMVSS regulations do exist for a reason--but I think we should be taking a more critical look at our regulations, especially as compared to other places at the same socioeconomic level.
Technically anyone can pay the money to do this certification, but it's not cheap and also would require that you crash multiple cars for crash testing. Also if it fails in some aspect it's not like then you can ask the manufacture to change things.
Also these kei class vehicles would not do well on some of the highway speed collision tests.
Moreover these Kei Trucks still have to deal with the 25% chicken tax =(.
I've seriously contemplated getting one of these. Street legal, fuel efficient, simple, but when I started researching them I started to see a pattern. It's hard to find anyone in rural areas willing to work on them and not all mini trucks are equal. Some are not shipped correctly and have frame rust issues. There are YouTuber's that cover some of the models and the gotchas and things to inspect. I would never buy one without inspecting it locally. I've seen a couple of them in town and the owners somehow manage to keep them running.
I am leaning more towards a street legal side-by-side as there are a few dealers here and they have people to perform more advanced repairs. Downside is they cost more especially if I want a fully enclosed cab with windshield and heater, something that is a must during the winter here. Upside is I can take it into the mountains and also use it to run into town for groceries.
An upside to either of these options is that these are the remaining vehicles that do not as of yet have any of the telemetry, dashboard infotainment systems, pay-as-you-go for subscriptions for standard features, etc...
The trucks have all just gone through auction and have inspection reports. Mine I bought for $2k was grade 3.5 and what I’d consider pristine for a 25 year old truck. The Japanese are pretty trustworthy people to do business with, and they build great vehicles.
One thing the author left out was the fascination I had with the whole process. Watching auctions, assignment to a ship, tracking it through the ocean and storms and watching on video as it passed through the Panama Canal. Then the customs and importation paperwork with CBP, going to the port, the driving 200 miles home in my new “truck” that had road manners more akin to my golf cart than anything actually on the road around me. I-95 was terrifying— I barely got off the on-ramp before looking for the next off-ramp to find backroads for the rest of the journey.
I seriously miss compact trucks, like the Mazda B-series, Ford Courier, Ford Ranger (before it became a mid-size in 2019).
These kinds of trucks might more to your liking. Sure they aren't as small and cute as the imports, but your local auto store can still get you parts for them.
They are fun to drive, fairly fuel efficient, and are capable of hauling material from the home center. I learned to drive stick, and how to pop the clutch when you have a dead battery, in a Ford Courier on the high plains of west Texas.
I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades.
I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized.
A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of a damn schoolbus.
It's so bizarre to me as an Australian that these are considered "compact". Here they are the standard utility vehicle for every tradesman (although the Toyota Hilux is perhaps most popular). Coming from my hatchback I find these long and awkward to park / merge.
Sadly Dodge Rams and other stupid big US cars are starting to rear their ugly faces, although they look hilariously out of place on our roads. A popular term for them is "emotional support vehicle"
The MY2022 Maverick is what the new Ranger should have been. And the Hyundai Santa Cruz also was introduced in MY2022. Finally some steps in the right direction, at least.
The brazilian Ford Courier model was an amazing pickup. Its 1.6 engine was a beast for the weight (~1000kg if I remember correctly, you’d lose traction on launch very easily).
I’ts kinda crazy that cars like that are not even made anymore. You can barely load a couple boxes into most of the currently popular extended-cabin abominations.
I used to use an old Ford Ranger on a farm as a teen and it was a great truck. It was tough in its own way, easy to fix, and took alot of abuse. I rolled it once (not in it fortunately), and got it stuck in a stream. We dragged it out was a tractor, rolled it upright, waited for the carburetor to drain or something and got it back on the road.
the people that depend on these vehicles are particularly tuned in to how to keep them alive...
Years ago, when my wife and I lived in a 'rural adjacent' community we had a ~20 year old manual transmission european sedan sitting in our driveway for about a year, tires slowly deflating, until one couple stopped by to enquire about it. My wife told them that if you can get it running you can have it, the husband came back a few days later to sign the paperwork, and after popping the hood and turning a few knobs was able to get it started and drove it away :)
Very happy that the vehicle had an extended life with someone that could put it to use.
They probably share a lot of the same drivetrain/engine/etc. parts from vehicles of the same era. If you are mechanically inclined and have the right tools, you might be able to do some of the work yourself. Most auto mechanics familiar with older Japanese branded vehicles should be able to work on them like they would on a regular US import.
The biggest issue I have is that they are right-hand drive. I'd be hesitant driving a mini-truck on streets and highways, even if it's licensed. This would be a non-issue if the intent is to leave it on private property, unlicensed.
I wish mini-trucks had a bigger demand here. I'd like a pickup, but I don't need the monster trucks that are on the market these days. Just something to move furniture, appliances, and junk around town.
Perhaps consider a visit to New Zealand and buying one there if you can’t import one from Japan (keyword “direct import”), although your total costs would be high. We are friendly buggers over here, so you are not likely to get ripped off unless you are a numpty. Buy an unregistered spare one for parts - used farm ones without plates get sold much cheaper.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/suzuki/carry/search — all used imports from Japan. Note prices are in NZD, reduce prices by 1/3 to get to USD. You can get GST (sales tax) refunded on exports but it might not be much money because second hand goods are zero-rated?
I really wanted a 1.3 litre 4WD Suzuki Carry a few years ago, but they really hold their value so they were not cheap enough for me. USD8000 for a 20 year old ute! They are in high demand in NZ.
I personally would avoid the Subaru mini-truck: I think mechanical issues and access to parts are problems. I also looked at the equivalent Hyundai mini-truck, but the Suzuki is probably the best bet.
Japan has regulations that make old vehicles expensive to keep, so they export them before they get really old. New Zealand buys a lot of second hand car stock from Japan. If you need something 25 years old, then New Zealand might have more stock.
We don’t salt our roads. Anything that has spent all its life in dry areas like the Canterbury Plains would be best - don’t buy if it has been long periods in wet climates. Avoid anything that has been on the coast - avoid sea-spray rust damage (don’t buy from my local area, New Brighton).
>It's hard to find anyone in rural areas willing to work on them and not all mini trucks are equal.
Living in a rural area, I first saw these popping up at least a decade ago. The typical farmer / rancher has to be mechanically skilled and one of the benefits of these vehicles is that they are relatively simple mechanically speaking, IE: assuming availability of parts you could do the work yourself.
I’ve also found that many rural mechanics (try the tractor/large truck guys if the car mechanic is skittish) are perfectly willing to work on them for time+materials; they want to know that you know it may take more time and cost more. Once past that they’re quite capable.
So if you can source the parts for them, and be willing to have it take some time; you’ll find help.
I’d recommend looking for a reputable dealer who does a proper shipment and inspection. Here in Seattle we have https://sodo-moto.com who works with fvej.com to bring vehicles over and ensure the quality.
Too bad you aren't inclined to work on them yourself. To me a key truck is a "hobby car" and I have no compunctions about learning to wrench on one. (YouTube certainly has plenty of how-to videos on it.)
isn't it getting hard to get any kind of car worked on in rural areas?
It is. I can do some mechanical work but I have no idea what special tools and tricks are required knowledge with these trucks. At least with side-by-sides there are a myriad of dealers and mechanics near me as so many people use them around their ranches, to go into town and to go into the mountains. There is probably some little shop that would say they could work on the mini-trucks but my experience with the small businesses here as that most of them fake it until they make it, but they never make it. So I would be taking a bit of a gamble. If I found one that was cheap enough it might be worth the gamble as I could just write off the loss if it has some obscure problem. That is why I am still on the fence.
For me, European multipurpose vehicles (sprinter vans?) were a revelation. An old Renault Kangoo is cheap to buy, cheap to drive and cheap to maintain. It's a small, simple car that drives and parks like a small sedan, but carries as much as a small pickup truck.
I can fit a bed, 3 months of luggage and a bicycle in mine. In a pinch, it's a brilliant microcamper. It's a big box on wheels. You can do what you want with it.
It's not a nice car, but it was designed to serve real user needs. That's why they're everywhere from Morocco to Poland.
This made me realize why I see so many Kangoos in Japan, despite them not really being cheap here! A bit of a nicer version of a Kei truck, without being a full minivan!
The US equivalent is a minivan; which everyone seems to agree is absolutely impossible to admit buying unless you’re a housewife with small kids. But they’re incredibly practical.
Missing the point. Many people buying inefficient oversized pickup trucks don't care that there's smaller and more efficient options out there, but they do it for the status simbol and ego lifting, not to be utilitarian and efficient.
I see these monster pick-up trucks more and more in European cities nowadays too, F-150s, Dodge Rams, with some fancy paintjob and big wheels but who's bed hasn't seen any actual use carrying anything because the owner is usually some middle-aged Ray-Ban wearing divorced dad with money, using it as a toy, trying to look cool. Power to him I guess, but those monster trucks are horrible for visibility and safety of cyclists, pedestrians, small cars, etc.
Most utilitarians here, blue collar workers, people for whom their vehicles are a tool for the job, mostly drive white vans here, as they're a lot more practical and economical than big trucks.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I live in Dallas and this is 100% true.
What’s fun is when you notice that the biggest, flashiest trucks are all concentrated in the fanciest suburbs. Once you get out in the country, off the main roads like where I’m from, suddenly (1) pickup trucks make up a lower percentage of the traffic, and (2) they are generally* smaller, more utilitarian and more beat up.
* except for the occasional F350 dually pulling an actual horse trailer
Another factor is safety. I don't share this point of view, but I have seen others purposely choose large, heavy vehicles for family members so they stand a better chance surviving a bad collision.
If you've ever sat in traffic driving a small car surrounded by large vehicles it definitely starts to sink in that you are at a distinct disadvantage if anything goes wrong. So this trend is also at least partially about this weird arms race of wanting to feel safer in the presence of ever larger vehicles.
Sprinter vans are more practical than modern pickups. You can fit a few sheets of drywall into it, lock up your stuff, and keep everything out of the elements. If you have a windowless van, you have everything out of sight, as well.
There's nothing more utilitarian than an extended-cab truck if you're a "divorced dad". You're hauling kids, furniture, trash, tools, etc. And if you need to move cross country guess what...You can tow a trailer. And I'd argue "ego lifting" is buying a 15k carbon fiber bike and riding in a traffic snarling peleton with your euro bike buddies...Everybody's guilty of some form of ego.
Not even necessarily ego or whatever. Some people just like trucks, and a car's "reputation" is part of the purchase decision for many buyers. It's why men don't buy Beetles or Priuses as often as women and women don't buy trucks as often as men for instance. Many people express themselves with their car.
The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant.
Ford F-250 Shelby edition towing capacity: 24,200 pounds
And that's just one additional dimension where these vehicles significantly differ.
These vehicles are utilitarian workhorses great for contracting, construction, farming (eg. hauling livestock), towing (eg. other cars, trailers, mobile BBQ, etc.), boating, leisure [1], etc.
I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently.
The electric version will power job sites, camp sites, and help with disaster recovery. It's going to sell like hot cakes.
> The /r/fuckcars folks are being a little dishonest here. As another commenter mentioned, this is like asking a vegan for steak recommendations at a restaurant.
The subreddit is specifically named 'fuck cars'. How exactly are they being dishonest? This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact.
> I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently.
In fact I would say that you are the one being somewhat dishonest by (implicitly) claiming both the benefits of being able to use it as a utilitarian workhorse, and in an urban area. If the trucks have the majority of their utility as contracting, construction, or towing, they should require being licensed as a commercial driver, and potentially be banned from being operated on city roads due to the danger they pose to smaller vehicles and pedestrians.
Think of the argument from that subreddit (and me) this way -- if you are driving a huge farm tractor, you cannot also bring said tractor into the city center. Not all heavy machinery needs to be allowed everywhere. Obviously you might not agree, but I think the argument is fundamentally honest.
I know a lot of people with those ridiculous big trucks, and 2 of them use them for utility, one has a boat and one has a 5th wheel. The others just...have them. So until there's zero people driving them for vanity or aggression reasons, it doesn't feel dishonest at all. Your response feels like a typical US response to social ills - turn a blind eye to a problem because a) the thing causing the problem is fun/popular/profitable b) there's a handful of hyper specific potentially valid reasons for the thing that have nothing to do with the people causing the problem (most of the giant trucks in my area can't even haul anything because of the vanity lifts and various "upgrades" - they would make the argument you are as to why they should be allowed but they would not support anything that would restrict them to those purposes).
The transmission overheats after 3-4 hours going uphill with no load. They made it too heavy for the powertrain!
It’s also depressingly easy to trigger the overload light on the dashboard by doing things like buying bricks at Home Depot.
Seriously, WTF? Do we need a 2500 class to replace our old pre-fuel-injection GMC 1500? It had better fuel economy and was also lower to the ground. It could even handle mountain freeways!
(The newer GMC was even worse than the Ram, FWIW.)
I’d definitely look into one of these little japanese trucks if I could get a new one and have it serviced. Bonus points if it is an EV.
The point isn't that the smaller truck is an equally capable vehicle. The point is to make fun of people who don't need a truck but are getting an overkill vehicle as a status symbol, all the while people who actually need to transport goods can still get a lot done with a tiny kei truck.
A 24,000 pound barbecue? What does that look like?
I'm pretty sure most people who own these oversized pickup trucks never use that towing capacity. Maybe some do, and if they were the only ones using them, nobody would have a problem with it.
I know they have never ridden kei trucks. I'm a 175cm Japanese and its seat and space is obviously uncomfortable. It's fine for the purpose (carrying farm equipment and other stuff, drive max like 10km at 60km/s) but not comparable with richer trucks. Looks better to compare with 90s Hilux.
I'm a 185cm non-Japanese, and kei truck seat and space has been just fine for me. You can't recline the seats obviously, but that's not why you're in the truck
I rode in kei-trucks and kei-vans with an adult in every seat, up some very steep and long hills in Japan. We weren't exactly in the fast lane, but there was not any mention of the van not being up to the task. It felt just fine.
In fact my friend was SO excited about his new van (for 1998) that for a while, he was bragging about every last little aspect up and down those hills, every time we rode with him. He lived in a gigantic danchi at the top of one of the steepest hills around, and still loved that thing.
(He worked as a furnace-jumper-inner / furnace-insides-scraper at an auto recycling place all day, and had molten aluminum burns on his arms and sometimes face...I respected the heck out of that guy for what he did to support his family. I think he runs an IT business in Brazil now.)
I would much, much rather have a new $70k Ford F150 Raptor than a tiny Japanese truck . Honestly a redditor - perhaps the most odious group on the Iternet - recommending the tiny Japanese truck over the F150 is a good enough reason to prefer the opposite; a redditor on "fuckcars" is a GREAT reason to prefer the opposite.
I wish the actual story was “US manufacturers announce line of small, Japanese style pickup trucks”
Importing adds friction both up front and for ongoing sourcing of parts and maintenance. Just give us some options for local pickup trucks utilizing existing repair facilities! Instead everyone bitches about truck drivers having such large vehicles, when that’s all that’s on offer here!
RAM sells a small truck in Mexico called RAM 700 and it’s getting popular for work purposes (specially in urban areas).
I have no idea why it’s not being sold in the US market.
The US market never carries vehicles that executives don't think will sell well in the US market, or that may lower their brand's perceived value, or take money away from a hot-selling model... We always get the shit cars with the shit mileage and less functionality. Some of that is due to regulatory or trade issues, but mostly they just think it will cut into their sales of a more expensive car they already have here. Also, dealerships are bastards.
I knew it seemed familiar. It’s based on the fiat strada, a unibody based pickup that for the longest has been based on a modified fiat hatchback (fiat uno first, fiat Palio later, not sure about now, maybe the argos)
The closest us equivalent in the US may be a Hyundai Santa Cruz, which sells ok-ish, the Honda rigid line, which sells okish too, and the Ford Maverick which sells like hot cakes.
RAM, like Ford, had the reputation. A rebadged Fiat toro may do the trick.
Ford is doing the same with the C pick up truck. I often see Rangers with Mexican license plates around town since I live in south Texas. I think if Ford or Ram can sell $100k pickup trucks in Mexico they would in a heart beat.
Obama era emissions regs make it impossible for (new) small trucks to be economically feasible. The way the regulations work disproportionately punish small vehicles.
We've been importing them to Louisiana for 20+ years now. Although for the longest time they were only legal to drive like a farm truck (up to 40 miles from the farm) and only on 55mph or less roads. They also had limiters installed so they couldn't go over 55mph, not that its hard to remove the tiny flap of metal they installed to keep the throttle from opening fully.
There is one farmer we used to call the used kei truck salesman because at any given time he has 10-20 of these in his yard for sale fresh off the import boat.
This is interesting. I’m from the UK, in the car trade, and setting up in Louisiana. Is there a market for European panel vans (like the sprinter, crafter, ford transit) in Louisiana?
It took a while but people are a lot more warmed up to the European or world vans now. IMO you still see a lot more tradesmen using pickup trucks just because its the culture here. For personal use you mostly see the large religious family types with 12 kids driving 15 passenger vans or RV/camper types using panel vans.
I'm sad that the city van is a dying breed now. Had a Nissan NV200 I used for a daily driver and weekend camper van. Unfortunately the NV200, Metris, Promaster City, and Transit Connect are all killed off and out of production. By 2024 If I want another brand new cargo van I'm stuck buying a $40k+ fullsize.
I’ve looked into one of these and they’re completely illegal in my state, no way to register them without gaming different dmv stations and getting a clueless dmv rep who doesn’t know what they’re looking at, to register it. This is Oregon. Really unfortunate situation as these fit a lot of use cases that would previously require something as big as a gas guzzling Ford F150 otherwise.
I think most people register them out of state for this reason - Minnesota and Arkansas being the two go-to (also for bypassing vehicle road-readiness inspections...).
I wish I'd known this. Oregon's bi-annual "emissions test" where they hook up the inspection machine to the ODB port and let the car lie to it is absurd. When I first heard about it I assumed they'd put some device on the exhaust. They do not.
> Really unfortunate situation as these fit a lot of use cases that would previously require something as big as a gas guzzling Ford F150 otherwise.
What about the Ford Maverick? The only issue is that the bed is fairly small, but it looks like these minis have small beds and low towing capacities as well? And Ford makes a hybrid version.
(Don't misunderstand: I'm not arguing against relaxing the rules in Oregon.)
The Ford Maverick is better than most modern pickups, but still misses the mark. As you mentioned, the bed is significantly smaller than a 1990 Ranger despite being 6 inches longer[1]. Honestly the biggest issue I have with these vehicles is their height, which is a known hazard to pedestrians[2]. The Maverick doesn't fix that issue.
The sales of the Maverick have really made a compelling case for an even-smaller truck that is one size down. I don't even think ford thought it would sell that well. The Maverick is still a giant truck compared to these.
I thought the whole appeal for the maverick was that it was a hybrid truck that you’d be able to drive around a city (Ford marketing, itll be fine to drive anywhere probably)?
You could actually probably get this onto a state-wide ballot as a measure to be voted on in Oregon. The bar to get things on the ballot isn't particularly high.
As someone else living in the PNW, I’ve read that people in Oregon permits kei trucks, but won’t allow them to be registered and to work around this, people will register them in Washington and then bring them down.
Someone has to pay to have a vehicle certified (crash tests, emissions, figure out what’s needs modified to meet US regulations, etc). If the vehicle was never sold in the US to begin with, then they can’t be registered until they are 25+ years old. Even then, it’s hard/impossible in some states.
My memory is a bit hazy, but at one point in time an importer company paid the large sums (hundreds of thousands I’m sure) to have a certain GT-R model go through the safety/emission procedures so they could be imported before they were 25 years old. That’s the only case I can think of.
Kinda ironic that big city dwellers are buying larger and larger trucks every year just to take them on grocery shopping runs while rural farm workers are moving in the opposite direction for actual hauling.
While you are correct that urban Americans LARPing ranchers are, indeed, buying larger and larger trucks I don't see actual farmers/ranchers downsizing.
I live on a working ranch and while our truck is very boring ("work truck" - basically a fleet vehicle with no options) it is still quite large as it has an 8' bed, etc.
I think we could make good use of a battery powered vehicle with a small cargo area and we definitely make good use of the aforementioned full-sized truck ... but I don't find these mini-pickups appealing or interesting.
I don’t know how much they’re moving in the opposite direction… my dad was a rural beekeeper for many years and had a series of compact pickups (Toyota pickup, Nissan hardbody, Chevy S10)… and then he changed careers around the time you could no longer buy new compact pickups in NA. I expect that the number of compact pickups in rural areas hasn’t actually been going up in the years since.
My truck has a supercharger and a performance chip. It is a "city dwelling" truck...And I haul thousands of pounds of shit in the city just like I would anywhere else (hence why I have a truck). There's no rule saying trucks have to be for towing bovine.
Readit News
It would be great to live completely car-free, but absent major changes to how we plan our cities, it's just a sad reality that cars are a necessary ingredient to life in the vast majority of America. To cope with this, I'd love to be able to import a kei car or van from Japan, or micro-sized European city cars, or even some of the very small EV city cars that we see in China... but I just can't, unless I want an overpriced pile of scrap from the 1990s.
It's all so much worse when you realize that the 25-year rule is a holdover from a grey-market import scare of the mid-1980s[0]: European carmakers, namely Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche, were having trouble in the US with people importing European models of their cars. There were some valid concerns around inconsistent modifications for US safety standards, but the main issue was clearly that these grey-market imports were cheaper than buying a US model from a dealer, so profits were being missed. Instead of fixing the pricing discrepancy, they just successfully lobbied the government to enact this draconian 25-year ban, and so to this day I can't have a 2020s Japanese kei car shipped to a US port at my expense because it'd be illegal to register it.
[0] https://jalopnik.com/the-25-year-import-rules-history-is-mor...
They have a terrible reputation, primarily because they get used a lot by people who can’t afford a car.
I wish it were different, but driving a moped/Vespa on American roads is a pretty big risk.
But I guess I feel the same in SEA where instead of electric bikes you have to contend with a sea of gas mopeds.
Half of all cars sold in the US are imported. Toyota, a Japanese company, is the most popular brand of car sold in the US.
So, yes, you can import cars all you want, they just need to follow US safety and emissions standards. These cars do not meet those requirements, so you can't import them.
If you didn't block them as imports, we'd have lots of people just go to Mexico and buy highly-polluting vehicles to save money, and our problem with smog in the border states would be much worse.
I'm interested in learning where it was actually _curtailed_ in some measurable way e.g. due to the public pushing back, or other reasons. If you know of resources/studies on the pushback story, assuming there is one, would be appreciated.
I currently drive a small efficient car, but I'm seriously contemplating buying an electric SUV for my next car, even though I've no use for it. I don't drive a lot, but every time I drive, I see drivers on their phones, drivers who don't signal, drivers who race the lights, drivers who don't turn their head lights on at night, and other general poor situational awareness, etc. etc. And about once a month I see someone run the red light by a _large_ margin.
By absolute measurements SUVs are worse in most metrics including safety, but alas prisoner's dilemma prevails. No amount of defensive driving on my part is gonna trump physics, if / when my tiny hatchback gets T-boned by a lifted truck.
With that situation, we usually buy cars before 2005 or so, and we pay those 3k to 4k euros in those, and usually with over 250 000 km (155 000 miles). Depending on the model, they even can be more expensive than people would think: A late 90s Nissan Terrano would cost from 6k to 7k, and my current car, a Korean one that cost about 13k in 2012, now cost from 9k to 11k (unless it has too much mileage or isn't in a decent shape).
At one point, I pondered buying a Toyota previa with this head gasket issue for 3K and planed to repair it myself. Fortunately I got my sense back and bought a Renault Scenic with no issue at all, 2K and I managed to have also the timing belt replaced. Yes, internet thinks that because it is a French car, it will crumble. Well internet, so far it had no issue and its head gasket is intact.
Even the advocate highlighted in this article (Economist) admits his would probably be a “death trap” on a busy highway.
Maybe the US should create separate standards for city streets and roads with low speed limits, that could be a good way to bring down vehicle sizes. But just allowing these things just anywhere seems like a recipe for increased fatalities. For every HN reader who would use theirs wisely there are 10 average Americans who would risk maiming.
They already have!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl...
But it’s a hard sell when the US has so many high speed roads. I mostly see them used for facility maintenance, parking enforcement etc.
If they don't pass emissions, they cannot be legally imported. It doesn't matter whether you want to use them on private property; that private property is still within the US, and subject to EPA regs.
People think the same thing about not having to register their snowmobile, ATV or whatever if they're hooning around on their farm or private property. Nope. State environmental cops will happily step onto your property, chase you down, and cite you.
Toyota and Subaru are present in the United States because there is an incentive to manufacture them locally, which serves as a valuable learning experience for the US.
Thus the United States' car manufacturers are either perceived as being of low quality or lagging behind their competitors, leading to the country being utilized as a third-party for inexpensive assembly.
A) most cars manufactured by European and Japanese brands are built in Mexico and direct imported via NAFTA/USMCA. The fact that Toyota and Honda choose to continue to do manufacturing in the United States is probably seen as a boon to those local communities.
B) the "low quality" image of American brands is pretty limited to the United States, like a lot of American products (California wine, for instance, is generally bottom shelf in the US but well regarded internationally). In Russia, Ford used to be their top marquee. Ford and GM are both huge in Oceania. In LATAM, they're seen as a step up from Japanese and Chinese brands and Volkswagen. In Europe, they're not generally perceived as low-quality; instead, the perception is that they're too large and fuel inefficient for most European roads/cities.
I think the US needs to update a lot of rules regarding the sale, import, pollution and import of cars, including trucks. Require commercial licenses for the big stuff, have US manufacturers manufacture these practical small cars in the US according to modern US standards, and allow the import of vehicles that US manufacturers refuse to make.
I find it funny (yet I see this all the time) that 2 countries have polar opposite regulations for the same topic.
The question is: is it street legal and can you legally get it registered to drive afterwards? Once you ask that question, tons of regulations come into play ranging from axle weight to emissions standards to safety requirements.
[1] you gotta have an ATF destructive devices license and follow state specific laws if you want to fire the main cannon
Unofficially, it's indirectly how we got the Civil Rights Act passed as a quid pro quo:
> In retrospect, audio tapes from the Johnson White House, revealed a quid pro quo unrelated to chicken. In January 1964, President Johnson attempted to convince United Auto Workers' president Walter Reuther not to initiate a strike just before the 1964 election and to support the president's civil-rights platform. Reuther, in turn, wanted Johnson to respond to Volkswagen's increased shipments to the United States.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Whenever you buy from aboard, that's money and jobs that are lost to the USA.
So they want to export, but not to import!
And instead of banning the imports, they just set technical standards.
Like requiring specific bumpers and car height, and pollution standards, despite the fact US roads are deadlier and the US pollutes more than anywhere else.
Other countries are a bit more optimistic about international trade, and recognize they can't do everything.
Western Europe, for exemple, has focused on high added value engineering and office jobs, to outsource production to Eastern Europe and Asia. And everyone has an engineering degree in here, so good luck to live on your factory job.
IIRC the frame makes the car, so you could bolt your kei to a Geo Metro frame, and register it in one of the more lenient states (KY, AZ)
The vehicles meeting the requirements wouldn't be competitive on price because they'd be playing by a different set of rules.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/new-regis...
From the California DMV's web page on direct imported vehicles: "If your direct foreign import vehicle was not originally manufactured to meet California emissions standards and DOT FMVSS, the vehicle cannot be registered in California, unless the vehicle is modified and tested under CARB’s direct import program."
Based on research that I done years ago, my understanding is that the modifications required to get many foreign vehicles to conform to California's emission standards, combined with the testing fees (which is far more expensive than the cost of a traditional biennial smog check), make it prohibitively expensive for casual buyers to legally register imported vehicles in California.
Some people get around this by registering their vehicles in other states where only the EPA 25 year rule applies; occasionally in California I do see cars with their steering wheels on the right side with Nevada or Oregon license plates. However, California generally requires its residents to have their vehicles registered in California.
One thing I'm curious about is whether California allows direct imported vehicles to be converted to run on battery-backed electric motors as a legal modification. If this is the case, then the vehicle would certainly pass the emissions test.
I see plenty of Smarts and Fiat 500s in San Francisco
People make this excuse all the time in australia too. I have never had a problem living all over, including small country towns, without a car. Excuses are bullshit for most people.
Of course we shouldn't be allowing people to import some pollution-spewing deathtrap that doesn't have seatbelts--the FMVSS regulations do exist for a reason--but I think we should be taking a more critical look at our regulations, especially as compared to other places at the same socioeconomic level.
Also these kei class vehicles would not do well on some of the highway speed collision tests.
Moreover these Kei Trucks still have to deal with the 25% chicken tax =(.
I am leaning more towards a street legal side-by-side as there are a few dealers here and they have people to perform more advanced repairs. Downside is they cost more especially if I want a fully enclosed cab with windshield and heater, something that is a must during the winter here. Upside is I can take it into the mountains and also use it to run into town for groceries.
An upside to either of these options is that these are the remaining vehicles that do not as of yet have any of the telemetry, dashboard infotainment systems, pay-as-you-go for subscriptions for standard features, etc...
The trucks have all just gone through auction and have inspection reports. Mine I bought for $2k was grade 3.5 and what I’d consider pristine for a 25 year old truck. The Japanese are pretty trustworthy people to do business with, and they build great vehicles.
One thing the author left out was the fascination I had with the whole process. Watching auctions, assignment to a ship, tracking it through the ocean and storms and watching on video as it passed through the Panama Canal. Then the customs and importation paperwork with CBP, going to the port, the driving 200 miles home in my new “truck” that had road manners more akin to my golf cart than anything actually on the road around me. I-95 was terrifying— I barely got off the on-ramp before looking for the next off-ramp to find backroads for the rest of the journey.
These kinds of trucks might more to your liking. Sure they aren't as small and cute as the imports, but your local auto store can still get you parts for them.
They are fun to drive, fairly fuel efficient, and are capable of hauling material from the home center. I learned to drive stick, and how to pop the clutch when you have a dead battery, in a Ford Courier on the high plains of west Texas.
I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized.
A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of a damn schoolbus.
Sadly Dodge Rams and other stupid big US cars are starting to rear their ugly faces, although they look hilariously out of place on our roads. A popular term for them is "emotional support vehicle"
I’ts kinda crazy that cars like that are not even made anymore. You can barely load a couple boxes into most of the currently popular extended-cabin abominations.
the people that depend on these vehicles are particularly tuned in to how to keep them alive...
Years ago, when my wife and I lived in a 'rural adjacent' community we had a ~20 year old manual transmission european sedan sitting in our driveway for about a year, tires slowly deflating, until one couple stopped by to enquire about it. My wife told them that if you can get it running you can have it, the husband came back a few days later to sign the paperwork, and after popping the hood and turning a few knobs was able to get it started and drove it away :)
Very happy that the vehicle had an extended life with someone that could put it to use.
The biggest issue I have is that they are right-hand drive. I'd be hesitant driving a mini-truck on streets and highways, even if it's licensed. This would be a non-issue if the intent is to leave it on private property, unlicensed.
I wish mini-trucks had a bigger demand here. I'd like a pickup, but I don't need the monster trucks that are on the market these days. Just something to move furniture, appliances, and junk around town.
The Ford Maverick is even smaller. It is a bit more barebones but it might work for you.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/suzuki/carry/search — all used imports from Japan. Note prices are in NZD, reduce prices by 1/3 to get to USD. You can get GST (sales tax) refunded on exports but it might not be much money because second hand goods are zero-rated?
I really wanted a 1.3 litre 4WD Suzuki Carry a few years ago, but they really hold their value so they were not cheap enough for me. USD8000 for a 20 year old ute! They are in high demand in NZ.
I personally would avoid the Subaru mini-truck: I think mechanical issues and access to parts are problems. I also looked at the equivalent Hyundai mini-truck, but the Suzuki is probably the best bet.
Japan has regulations that make old vehicles expensive to keep, so they export them before they get really old. New Zealand buys a lot of second hand car stock from Japan. If you need something 25 years old, then New Zealand might have more stock.
We don’t salt our roads. Anything that has spent all its life in dry areas like the Canterbury Plains would be best - don’t buy if it has been long periods in wet climates. Avoid anything that has been on the coast - avoid sea-spray rust damage (don’t buy from my local area, New Brighton).
Living in a rural area, I first saw these popping up at least a decade ago. The typical farmer / rancher has to be mechanically skilled and one of the benefits of these vehicles is that they are relatively simple mechanically speaking, IE: assuming availability of parts you could do the work yourself.
So if you can source the parts for them, and be willing to have it take some time; you’ll find help.
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It is. I can do some mechanical work but I have no idea what special tools and tricks are required knowledge with these trucks. At least with side-by-sides there are a myriad of dealers and mechanics near me as so many people use them around their ranches, to go into town and to go into the mountains. There is probably some little shop that would say they could work on the mini-trucks but my experience with the small businesses here as that most of them fake it until they make it, but they never make it. So I would be taking a bit of a gamble. If I found one that was cheap enough it might be worth the gamble as I could just write off the loss if it has some obscure problem. That is why I am still on the fence.
https://reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/sdrgv3/japanese_truck...
A kei truck has about 90% the bed length of a pickup while being a lot more nimble. The lower bed is more ergonomic to load and unload too.
I can fit a bed, 3 months of luggage and a bicycle in mine. In a pinch, it's a brilliant microcamper. It's a big box on wheels. You can do what you want with it.
It's not a nice car, but it was designed to serve real user needs. That's why they're everywhere from Morocco to Poland.
* protects your goods from weather
* more cargo volume
* better forward visibility without a long hood
* easier to load and unload due to being lower
* can park it without people being able to walk up to it and taking your tools and equipment out of the exposed truck bed
I see these monster pick-up trucks more and more in European cities nowadays too, F-150s, Dodge Rams, with some fancy paintjob and big wheels but who's bed hasn't seen any actual use carrying anything because the owner is usually some middle-aged Ray-Ban wearing divorced dad with money, using it as a toy, trying to look cool. Power to him I guess, but those monster trucks are horrible for visibility and safety of cyclists, pedestrians, small cars, etc.
Most utilitarians here, blue collar workers, people for whom their vehicles are a tool for the job, mostly drive white vans here, as they're a lot more practical and economical than big trucks.
What’s fun is when you notice that the biggest, flashiest trucks are all concentrated in the fanciest suburbs. Once you get out in the country, off the main roads like where I’m from, suddenly (1) pickup trucks make up a lower percentage of the traffic, and (2) they are generally* smaller, more utilitarian and more beat up.
* except for the occasional F350 dually pulling an actual horse trailer
If you've ever sat in traffic driving a small car surrounded by large vehicles it definitely starts to sink in that you are at a distinct disadvantage if anything goes wrong. So this trend is also at least partially about this weird arms race of wanting to feel safer in the presence of ever larger vehicles.
I bought a F250 diesel to tow my 13,000 lb rv. Smaller vehicles can't do that.
Subaru Sambar (kei truck) towing capacity: 1,300 lbs
Ford F-150 towing capacity: 5,000 to 11,300 lbs
Ford F-250 Shelby edition towing capacity: 24,200 pounds
And that's just one additional dimension where these vehicles significantly differ.
These vehicles are utilitarian workhorses great for contracting, construction, farming (eg. hauling livestock), towing (eg. other cars, trailers, mobile BBQ, etc.), boating, leisure [1], etc.
I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently.
The electric version will power job sites, camp sites, and help with disaster recovery. It's going to sell like hot cakes.
[1] https://www.f150forum.com/f34/how-pull-jeep-out-mud-130086/#...
The subreddit is specifically named 'fuck cars'. How exactly are they being dishonest? This is more like r/vegan showing how a vegan meal is better than a steak meal along some dimension, say, environmental impact.
> I live in an urban area close enough to the forest, lakes, and pastures to see all of these uses frequently.
In fact I would say that you are the one being somewhat dishonest by (implicitly) claiming both the benefits of being able to use it as a utilitarian workhorse, and in an urban area. If the trucks have the majority of their utility as contracting, construction, or towing, they should require being licensed as a commercial driver, and potentially be banned from being operated on city roads due to the danger they pose to smaller vehicles and pedestrians.
Think of the argument from that subreddit (and me) this way -- if you are driving a huge farm tractor, you cannot also bring said tractor into the city center. Not all heavy machinery needs to be allowed everywhere. Obviously you might not agree, but I think the argument is fundamentally honest.
The transmission overheats after 3-4 hours going uphill with no load. They made it too heavy for the powertrain!
It’s also depressingly easy to trigger the overload light on the dashboard by doing things like buying bricks at Home Depot.
Seriously, WTF? Do we need a 2500 class to replace our old pre-fuel-injection GMC 1500? It had better fuel economy and was also lower to the ground. It could even handle mountain freeways!
(The newer GMC was even worse than the Ram, FWIW.)
I’d definitely look into one of these little japanese trucks if I could get a new one and have it serviced. Bonus points if it is an EV.
I'm pretty sure most people who own these oversized pickup trucks never use that towing capacity. Maybe some do, and if they were the only ones using them, nobody would have a problem with it.
In fact my friend was SO excited about his new van (for 1998) that for a while, he was bragging about every last little aspect up and down those hills, every time we rode with him. He lived in a gigantic danchi at the top of one of the steepest hills around, and still loved that thing.
(He worked as a furnace-jumper-inner / furnace-insides-scraper at an auto recycling place all day, and had molten aluminum burns on his arms and sometimes face...I respected the heck out of that guy for what he did to support his family. I think he runs an IT business in Brazil now.)
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No trouble going up long or steep hills in windy mountain roads with the whole family of 4+luggage in the car.
No trouble going up long hills at highway speed (120 km/h) with two adult friends in the back.
Aircon on and everything. Works great.
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Importing adds friction both up front and for ongoing sourcing of parts and maintenance. Just give us some options for local pickup trucks utilizing existing repair facilities! Instead everyone bitches about truck drivers having such large vehicles, when that’s all that’s on offer here!
https://www.motor1.com/news/447996/2021-ram-700-debut/
The closest us equivalent in the US may be a Hyundai Santa Cruz, which sells ok-ish, the Honda rigid line, which sells okish too, and the Ford Maverick which sells like hot cakes.
RAM, like Ford, had the reputation. A rebadged Fiat toro may do the trick.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/04/ford-quietly-begins-prod...
Therefore, it's far easier to build a larger vehicle to meet the requirements.
Because they know they can sell bigger trucks for more money.
There is one farmer we used to call the used kei truck salesman because at any given time he has 10-20 of these in his yard for sale fresh off the import boat.
I'm sad that the city van is a dying breed now. Had a Nissan NV200 I used for a daily driver and weekend camper van. Unfortunately the NV200, Metris, Promaster City, and Transit Connect are all killed off and out of production. By 2024 If I want another brand new cargo van I'm stuck buying a $40k+ fullsize.
What about the Ford Maverick? The only issue is that the bed is fairly small, but it looks like these minis have small beds and low towing capacities as well? And Ford makes a hybrid version.
(Don't misunderstand: I'm not arguing against relaxing the rules in Oregon.)
[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36651899/sizing-up-the-20... [2] https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/03/pedestrians-incr...
My memory is a bit hazy, but at one point in time an importer company paid the large sums (hundreds of thousands I’m sure) to have a certain GT-R model go through the safety/emission procedures so they could be imported before they were 25 years old. That’s the only case I can think of.
I live on a working ranch and while our truck is very boring ("work truck" - basically a fleet vehicle with no options) it is still quite large as it has an 8' bed, etc.
I think we could make good use of a battery powered vehicle with a small cargo area and we definitely make good use of the aforementioned full-sized truck ... but I don't find these mini-pickups appealing or interesting.
If anything, the urban folks are buying bigger cars/trucks and rural folks are buying bigger sxs/ATVs