With news like [1][2], and problems I’ve had in the past, I would like a TV with a modern resolution, but just inputs and a tuner, no “smart” features. Does anything like this exist?
[1] https://hackaday.com/2021/11/29/samsung-bricks-smart-tvs/
[2] https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-advertising-inscape-data-privacy-q3-2021
4K OLED https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#r=384002160&P=7
4K IPS https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#r=384002160&P=2
4K VA https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#r=384002160&P=4
4K 55" or bigger monitors (there aren't many choices) https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#P=2,7,4&r=3840021...
The 4K 55" OLED Alienware has speaker but I doubt that it is any good https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/new-alienware-55-oled-gaming... (actually comes with remote too)
Linus made a video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3oqktdx2a8
Last but not least you can go even higher resolution than 4K but these are all IPS only and they are not bigger than 34" https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#r=768004320,57600...
Anecdotally this is the approach I took ~20 years ago when buying a (then slightly exotic) plasma flatscreen from Panasonic. It is still working flawlessly today, though I keep hoping it will die so I can guiltlessly replace it with something newer/bigger/higher-resolution.
[1] A random example https://www.usa.philips.com/p-p/86BDL3050Q_00/signage-soluti...
I have a big 4k tv that was destined for a sports bar but it was slightly damaged, got it for a great price. Sadly it doesn't have HDR either, but it is an older model. Anyway, its great as in there's no WiFi. There is a network port but there's no streaming apps or anything installed on it. I use it paired with an nvidia shield and a nakamichi soundbar and have been enjoying the experience.
But I digress, look for business displays
Planar makes incredible and also expensive displays for the commercial market. They offer a "luxury living" solution but the smallest is 100".
https://www.planar.com/markets/luxury-living/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Flat-Panel-Displays/ci/16...
In OP's link for IPS, a monitor of the same size and brand that seems to be the next version after the one I got is $550. It's hardly a premium over a comparable TV.
It looks like the situation is still that in the 4k OLED space there are a few ~$4000+ monitors and dozens of ~$1000 TVs. Per the pcpartpicker link, maybe the Gigabyte FO48U will change that, but it's still out of stock. Besides, I feel like this has happened before with HDR and 4k and IPS. First it shows up in TVs, a year later it is cheap in TVs, a year later it is expensive in monitors, and finally it becomes cheap in monitors. But it takes years. Which seems odd, since surely they use the same panels? Is it an industry structure thing, where panel manufacturers integrate and co-develop with TV manufacturers but monitor manufacturers are separate, only get the panels after release, and need a year or three to turn things around?
Monitor used to have "much" lower input latency, higher PPI, much higher refresh rate and generally higher reliability because they are expected to be constantly on. i.e Their panels have different specifications.
Although I am not sure if most of the above are true anymore especially with OLED. Given how TV manufactures have also had focus on gaming. But reliability is still a thing on monitor. That is the similar to reference TV that uses panel from one of two years prior.
Edit: I had to look up Panasonic TV set and panel and then I discovered they are pulling out of TV production and outsource to external partner. Sigh.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...
Well, “always” seems like an exaggeration; consumer monitors were far beyond 480i before consumer TVs were.
> It looks like the situation is still that in the 4k OLED space there are a few ~$4000+ monitors and dozens of ~$1000 TVs.
That’s not monitors being behind in tech, that’s TVs being cheaper because of economies of scale and opportunity for ad serving and data harvesting.
> Is it an industry structure thing, where panel manufacturers integrate and co-develop with TV manufacturers but monitor manufacturers are separate
AFAIK, LG, Sharp, Samung, and Sony are all four panel/TV/monitor manufacturers; I dont think that’s an issue.
On the other end of the spectrum is professional industry displays which are ahead of consumer facing devices, like are shown at NAB (vs CES) and there you'll find 8k monitors for tens of thousands of dollars.
Speaking of low to mid end tvs, the ones I saw on display in local shops, they were just overpriced junk..
Even though it's smaller, I installed my 7? year old 24" benq fhd e-ips monitor as a tv for my parents. $120 + $20 for the cheapest 2.1 sound (I think 2x10W + sub), cranked the bass much higher than advised, put the speakers behind the monitor and the sub on the floor + ISP tv box with remote. Speakers and monitor are always on, they got their own power saving stuff. My parents are ecstatic, guests are asking where they got the TV from... apparently it looks better that the ones you could buy for $500+...
Last time I checked, I remember finding somewhere most tvs don't actually operate at the advertised resolution, they got all kinds of "prettifying" algos. Not going to trust them ever.
because there's more money to be made selling TVs than monitors?
consequentely, it's TV manufacturers pushing the entire display maker industry ahead? and so they get the newer tech first??
Just because OLED tech "exists" doesn't mean the equipment exists to make it economically at any particular size, format, etc. We have affordable TV-sized and phone-sized OLEDs because LG has invested in the equipment to make those particular panels in those particular sizes.
Most business uses for monitors don’t require high definition, so you’re really looking at specific industries and gaming.
Powered bookshelf speakers are also an alternative to soundbars.
I personally use a monitor as a TV. One con is that some devices like the Fire Stick don't send HDMI display off signals but instead a black screen in sleep mode which wakes the monitor and keeps it on. You need a smart switch to easily turn it off.
Meanwhile, no one is buying non-smart TVs, so lower quantities are more expensive.
(Or they know that non-smart TVs are a niche product that they can charge more for.)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1533261-REG/nec_led_f...
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That's just offloading the problem to a separate device.
Our smart TV seems to actively try to figure out what is attached to the HDMI. Its probably reporting that back. At least every time I plug my notebook into the tv it seems to wait at least 20 seconds before forcing me to select "PC" as the input device. The old tv the notebook shows up instantaneously.
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Since I use a Roku stick for streaming, I have no need for the WiFi module in the TV. I was able to follow the instructions in that post, which involve removing the back of the TV and physically disconnecting the Wifi Module, and correct the issue.
I suppose that's one way to make sure the TV is not silently connecting to WiFi, although I'm not sure how difficult that operation would be on other manufacturers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HEC
Why would you do this? Initial configuration but then never again? I can't think of a technical reason it meaningfully helps when you can already type in a wifi password with the remote, so I'm inclined to assume that the feature isn't for the customer but rather because they want you to use their app on your phone because the data on your phone is more valuable than the data on your TV.
Anyhow, late one night we saw something popup in the list when I was pairing my headphones. "$crappyneighbor's TV". And we saw an opportunity to be a little petty back for once. We connected my phone, and apparently their TV model features no confirmation because it went right through, and started blasting Rick Astleys "Never Gonna Give You Up" until my phone disconnected a couple minutes later. Bit of good harmless fun at their expense.
Challenge accepted! <grabs pliers and soldering iron>
Eg LG Connect Apps
I’ve also often wondered if “store mode” disabled all of the radios because that’s the kind of thing you wouldn’t want enabled in a store.
I only turn on bluetooth when it is needed.
Wired headsets and wired keyboards will work with some of today's phones.
1. Scan the HDMI content and send information back to the mothership to help vendors know what you're watching.
2. Scan the local network for shares and look at media on them, again to send back to the mothership.
Never intend to use the "smart" features on the TV, internet browsing, Netflix etc., I handle that perfectly with my "broken lid" laptop, which is a well maintained machine, typing these very words on it.
So I can vouch that at least for Sony TVs in the KD or KDL series XD, XE, XF, XG (most of them launched a few years ago), you can use them just fine without internet, and you can even update them. You can also turn off Bluetooth and prevent the TV from advertising its presence.
Don't know about the newer OLED and QLED devices, you should try them on in the store.
so, are there any TVs where this is not possible? For example as part of turning on there is a setup procedure that makes it phone home and connect to wifi? If so (I wouldn't know but I would expect because natural cynicism) then the question naturally becomes what TVs is what you suggest actually possible on.
on edit: I see jiveturkey just posted that in fact what I suspect would be the case of difficulty to keep it from connecting is often the case https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29383963
Unless there are new features or fixes you want. My TV needed updates to support Dolby Vision and to fix ARC/CEC bugs. More recent TVs have required updates to support HDMI 2.1 features.
At least you can download the firmware separately and update through USB instead of a network update.
The problem isn't just that they want to be connected tot he internet, it's that that they're terribly written buggy bloatware devices that glitch continuously when not connected to the internet.
Of course from what others have said it seems like they're also glitchy and terrible when connected to the internet?
Satellite receivers have had this type of capability for a few decades.
It's hard to imagine streaming services like YouTube, NetFlix and whoever agreeing to do anything of that sort.
Indeed, my guess is right about this seems to be in the right ballpark:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_and_object_carousel
There are also quite often free public wifi in the neighborhoods. Bluetooth may also be an option. Or they can just add a cellular network to get your data. Or maybe they can create a wifi mesh network between nearby TVs and share the internet if one has access to it.
My dumb TV's remote is so simple, it has room for a dedicated button for each HDMI input. I don't have to go through any on-screen widget to pick an input: just hit a physical button on the remote dedicated to going to that HDMI input.
Cycling through picture modes is just a button also.
Never enter menus? What if you'd like to adjust something related to the display; sharpness or something.
edit: I believe it's called HbbTV
Most TV's will lock on any open wifi network given the chance - and that's all it takes to upload saved data and pull down updates and ads etc
* extra-large gaming monitors, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29383077
* Sceptre brand TVs (they can be purchased from Walmart) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29383298
* Projectors maybe, but 4k projectors are very expensive. (On the other hand, 1080p projectors look great in my opinion.)
* Most big brands such as LG, Samsung, etc. have "commercial displays" or "digital signage" that are dumb or at least have fewer problematic features. One kind you'll see is marketed for putting in hotel or hospital rooms. Another kind is marketed for displaying at e.g. a bar/restaurant, building lobby, etc.
https://youtu.be/YfvTjQ9MCwY
e.g. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-55-Class-4K-UHD-LED-TV-HD...
Zero smart features, and all modern capabilities. It's also a TV, as opposed to a computer monitor, so it has the expected TV speakers and ports.
I've always had a poor opinion of Sceptre from this, but again, it could just be an out of date prejudice.
...but it doesn't have any of the smart TV BS. Still takes too long to power on, IMO.
I’d guess the panels are all pretty common.
(e.g. https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U557CV-UMRB-55-4K-UHD-T...)
For example, there's the Alienware 55" OLED Gaming Monitor and the ASUS ROG Swift PG65UQ that's 65".
The smart one's are subsidized by their ads and spyware; so you'll always pay a massive premium to get a dumb one.
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I was looking for something similar and it's frustrating to see you can pick up a 65inch Samsung Q90A for about $2500-$3000 but a similarly sized comercial display will cost significantly more and use significantly more power (at least as far as I've seen, I might be wrong on this one). Comercial displays are rated for 16/24 or 24/24 usage, so they should, in theory, last significantly longer.
As far as my search went, I ended up going with a Dell U4320Q (43inch monitor) instead. It cost a bit more than the equivalent Samsung Q90A display, but it does have a USB C port with power delivery support, I can keep my desktop and laptop plugged in and it works/looks great. It also doesn't have Smart features, it's just a display. Depending on country you might be able to get some cashback on it and make it even more competitive price wise and the stand + warranty are pretty solid.
Hope this helps!
[1] https://pi-hole.net/
I can confirm that Roku firmware works great without the internet and doesn't nag. I just turn it on and switch to my Apple TV.
So pay attention to the hdmi cable you use.
There are some TVs that will try to connect to the internet via non-obvious means (Samsung TVs were mentioned elsewhere in this thread). TV manufacturers aren't spy agencies though. They're not going to put in that much effort to sneak an internet connection, when most users willingly connect their TVs to WiFi anyway. If I can't find an article about a given TV sneaking in an internet connection, I would be pretty confident that it doesn't.
If enough people do this, I anticipate that in the next model, they'll replace that blinking light with an forced on-screen overlay.
I have noticed a marked increase in youtube ads in the roku app. Prob due to roku has updated itself without permission.
Now i dread having to deal with pihole hacks + routers to fence it out of our home network :/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28045189
Don't buy one with other networks either, if they exist...
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