She isn't "returning" the plane, she's landing it somewhere and he's finding out it's there later. And she isn't "fixing" it, she's replacing bits (the battery and headphones) he removed to make it harder to steal.
> As Hong would come to find out, the colorful aircraft had been flown across Southern California by an unknown pilot, unnoticed, in a series of joyrides — or joy flights — at least twice before and then simply returned to the airport.
But don’t all pilots have to lodge their flight plans? Surely hiding a plane in a hangar is not that easy since you would know which airport it is located in.
While until recently I had to, in the name of flight safety, carefully pack my bags while consulting the sizes of shampoo containers allowed in the carry-on baggage, surrender my unapproved nail clippers, and with my shoes in hand and pants belt-less - stand in line to be x-rayed and patted down on my way to board a plane…
… someone can without anyone ringing any alarm bells and not phasing the local law enforcement one bit - take off multiple times unnoticed and unidentified on a private plane, and, if they choose to, fly it straight into a freshly refueled jet that I am sitting in waiting to take off.
Shhh, hope “terrorists” don’t read this comment. Or the article in LA Times.
Well, yeah. Anyone can own a small plane if they have the money. There’s plenty of uncontrolled airspace and uncontrolled airports.
Good God! What would happen if someone rented a box truck and bought some fertilizer?
Oh, and civilians can own muzzle-loading black powder cannons. Imagine what someone could do with a 32-pound cannonball.
The reality is anyone with the proper skills can crash a plane into anything they like. Unless you have someone on the roof with a MPAD, no one is going be to stop them in time.
This is rather hysterical. "Alarm bells" - both metaphorical and physical - would absolutely be going off if a Cessna was not responding on radio and headed anywhere near an airport operating passenger jets. Corona Muni isn't LAX.
To be fair, few people know anything about aviation other than being miffed at the grand inconvenience of obeying the rules of scheduled passenger flight services.
General aviation, in the U.S. at least, runs largely on the honor system. To fly in controlled airspace these days, ADS-B out is required, and there are definitely records of where people go
There is a big difference between a Cessna 172 with a gross weight of 2,450 including the 56 gallons of fuel and an A380 with a maximum takeoff weight of 1,268,000 pounds and 65,000 gallons of fuel.
Except they assumed that it'd be a 707 and also that'd be at landing speed of about 180mph ... not a 767 (which could be as much as 2x a 707 in take off weight) doing almost 600 mph.
Also also. "no alarm bells" is highly dependent on location. If this "stolen" plane were to have flown into highly controlled airspace without approvals, you can bet your ass that alarm bells would have gone off. But the person flying the plane knew what they were doing and where they were going. They went away from busy areas and didn't anything out of the ordinary.
Is there still many reasons this could be a problem? Sure. But invoking the terrorism word is full FUD, the likes of which the media loves to use. And ends us with security theater like shampoo size limits.
Some years ago I was flying home, and it turned out someone had called in a bomb threat. So, naturally, they had ramped up the security scan to the max, causing a massive queue.
The landside area was packed to the brim with travelers waiting in line, mixed with the people on their way to check-in pushing their trollies loaded with suitcases.
I've never been so scared, waiting in line for security, as I imagined how easily anyone could pack 6-7 huge suitcases filled with explosives onto a trolley in the parking lot right outside, move into the packed crowd without suspicion and set it off.
I imagine it's someone that doesn't have the monetary means to rent or buy a plane combined with a bit of mental health issues.
At the uncontrolled community airport I got my PPL at there were a few pilots who were known to have expired medical certificates and long expired flight reviews flying planes that they owned that hadn't had an annual inspection in years. All older guys who had nothing to lose if the FAA found out and grounded them.
I'm not sure why the owner of that aircraft doesn't setup an alert for it's tail number on one of the many aviation tracking sites. Call the airport management, police or local FBO once he sees it on approach to land at some airport.
> All older guys who had nothing to lose if the FAA found out and grounded them.
If you're someone that has enough land to make a strip and can afford the plane, you'd be amazed at what you can "get away" with out the anyone of authority noticing.
I've been to my friend's friend's bachelor pad, and that guy takes off and lands in his yard, maybe 200 feet long on a decent slope. At least he is an airline pilot and has a license.
Some smaller airports are pretty sleepy. There's no control tower at his home airport (Corona Municipal Airport) and it doesn't look like there's an FBO there. There's probably generally no one at the airport unless someone is there to take their plane up. Even if there is someone there running out to the ramp every time they hear a plane startup would get tedious very quickly.
> I'm leaning towards it being some extremely cheeky DCS/flightsim nerd because of the shortness and randomness of the flights. It screams "do it because I can and report back to the boys" to me.
It's not so easy to land a plane in real life, even if you have a lot of flightsim experience. It is definitely possible and there are people who have done it, but I don't think it's the norm. A lot of flying, especially landing, involves sensory inputs. Additionally, replacing the battery in that Cessna probably requires taking the cowling off. Not properly securing the battery or cowling may result in a bad time if something comes loose. Once again, doable, but you can do as quickly as you can with a car.
> I know literally nothing about flying. How does this work? Wouldn't the air traffic controllers see it on radar and try to radio it then call in the military (I've probably watched too many movies.)? Always blows my mind when I hear this kind of stuff in this day and age.
If you takeoff from an uncontrolled airport and stay clear of controlled and restricted airspace you don't have to say a single thing on any radio and no one will care about you. The controllers would see the blip on their radars but there's no requirements to check in with them (although it's generally a good idea) so they'll mostly keep other aircraft who they are talking to away from you.
Now, if you do fly into controlled airspace near an airport with a tower without talking to anyone, things will change. A slight excursion into the controlled airspace for a short time may go unnoticed, but the more blatant and prolonged the deviation, the larger the response will be. Fly into LAX's airspace and get in the way of their flights and you'll eventually get a visit from some friendly fighter jets. (There are some exceptions. For instance, there's a few narrow corridors through LAX's airspace that don't require talking to ATC. One of those corridors even goes directly over LAX's runways at a few thousand feet.)
As a flight instructor, flight sim teaches lots of bad habits that need to be unlearned at the beginning. Over-fixation on instruments is at the top of this list for VFR operations. I am not at all convinced that a person with only sim experience would be able to successfully land a C172.
My cars been stolen twice and both times, given the type of car, where it was stolen, and where it was abandoned the cops said it was most likely stolen to conduct a drug deal and then ditched
Seems plausible that something like that may be going on here
I am starting lessons here at EMT next week. My instructor's partner saw someone messing with this plane today. she drove up on the line to see if they needed help. she didnt know who they were. Her partner got a pic of the plane. Funny thing is my instructor is about my age.. so she kinda fit the desc. Now she's prefacing this news with, Im not her! lol Funny and madd3ning.
Interestingly, airplanes can also get repossessed. Special pilots get all the legal paperwork arranged and just show up and fly a plane out.
I suppose the high skill needed means that most pilots wouldn't want to steal airplanes, and it would not make sense to steal any airplane that needs special support from the manufacturer (the new owner can't keep it flying). Cars are much lower skill to steal and maintain and have a much broader market.
From what I've been told by fixed wing pilots, flying a plane isn't really that hard. At least one baggage handler stole a commercial passenger aircraft recently and flew it out, including acrobatics.
Flying one in a safe manner and following all the rules can be pretty difficult however. For example there is an area near me that is from the air as boring as any other part of Texas. It's controlled airspace because it is the Bush Family Ranch. The secret service will investigate you if you fly over it.
Flying is easy to those for whom it's become second nature. At first it's really very difficult to get the plane to do (and keep doing) what you want (or what ATC instructs). At some point, you realize that you're holding a heading and altitude without really thinking about it, while doing a several other things. I think it really depends on who you ask and a whole host of other variables just how easy flying is.
2. Knowing what to do when things go wrong. Any time you read about jets avoiding near collisions, landing in heavy crosswinds, landing safely after engine failure, etc etc, you have many checklists and years of rigorous training to thank for that.
Landing is tough because it’s somewhat counterintuitive. You need to maintain enough airspeed to avoid a stall but obviously you need to slow down to lose altitude and, you know, stop.
Yeah. I've been in an A320 simulator before for a few hours. They are pretty easy to fly and land. What isn't easy is getting one in a state ready to fly and to the runway. I can fly a Cessna 172 (didn't get enough solo hours for PPL though) and it's not difficult. Again prep is the hardest bit.
> But Montanez said there’s no immediate indication as to who the culprit is.
My understanding was you cannot fly without filing a flight plan (or is this just a Canada-specific thing?), and that flight plan has to be submitted by someone, so there has to be a trail here. If the plans were not filed, after all, how would he be able to tell the plane was flown "multiple times" during one of this extended absences?
Flight plans are only required for IFR flights in many countries. The VFR rules vary (altitude, area, etc). You can file a VFR flight plan if you want to but it is not required.
On the other hand you can't enter Clasa B airspace (the airspace around large airports) without permission from ATC. You also can't fly above 18,000ft in the US under VFR. That keeps small planes mostly away from the big jets.
I mean "Class B" airspace, which is mostly used in the USA. The ICAO definitions specify what the airspace classifications mean generally but each country often has its own slight variations of the rules.
Class B/C/D is airspace where contact with ATC is required but differs in separation policies. IFR traffic is always kept separated from other IFR traffic.
A: IFR only
B: All aircraft kept separated by ATC. IFR-VFR and VFR-VFR are all ATC's responsibility.
C: IFR traffic kept away from VFR traffic. VFR must watch out for other VFR.
D: IFR must watch out for VFR (only kept away from other IFR).
For VFR (visual flight rules) flights in the U.S., a flight plan is not needed and many such flights are made without a flight plan. If a VFR flight is conducted without talking to anyone, to and from uncontrolled fields, then they would be squawking 1200, in which case the flight wouldn't be identified on Flight Aware. Unless there's some unique ID being transmitted by ADS-B...
I have a great story from my friend's father when we were kids in the western US. They lived at one of these residential airstrip developments, and owned a remote ranch about 60 min. away by air. The father was in the habit of commuting between his home and ranch at will.
Flying home one day he found himself flanked by two fighter jets and escorted to the nearest commercial airport. He was hustled into the back of a black SUV and taken to his home where is family was gathered in the living room giving statements to a bunch of men in suits. Turns out the POTUS was is town for a visit, and my friends father had failed to read the temporary flight restriction advisory..
Yes, there has to be a trail, but not from flight plans.
In the U.S., ATC does not receive VFR flight plans (except for the weird special case of the D.C. SFRA, but even those are filed as IFR flight plans), only Search and Rescue. Flying in instrument conditions requires being on an IFR flight plan.
Pretty much my first thought as well. I'd probably setup some kind of lo-jack + dashcam setup to try and get images of the "burrowing" person(s) though.
You'd think maybe the DEA, ATF, FBI and/or FAA would find enough interest in this to operate some level of sting operation or crack down.
Readit News
The idea of a rando doing unknown maintenance on my plane is downright horrifying.
> As Hong would come to find out, the colorful aircraft had been flown across Southern California by an unknown pilot, unnoticed, in a series of joyrides — or joy flights — at least twice before and then simply returned to the airport.
… someone can without anyone ringing any alarm bells and not phasing the local law enforcement one bit - take off multiple times unnoticed and unidentified on a private plane, and, if they choose to, fly it straight into a freshly refueled jet that I am sitting in waiting to take off.
Shhh, hope “terrorists” don’t read this comment. Or the article in LA Times.
Good God! What would happen if someone rented a box truck and bought some fertilizer?
Oh, and civilians can own muzzle-loading black powder cannons. Imagine what someone could do with a 32-pound cannonball.
The reality is anyone with the proper skills can crash a plane into anything they like. Unless you have someone on the roof with a MPAD, no one is going be to stop them in time.
At many historical locations, said cannons are just sitting around entirely unguarded! Anyone[0] could just come and take one.
[0]...equipped with heavy equipment and maybe a hefty grinder or a stout set of bolt cutters.
Dead Comment
General aviation, in the U.S. at least, runs largely on the honor system. To fly in controlled airspace these days, ADS-B out is required, and there are definitely records of where people go
Did you know the Twin Towers were actually designed to withstand a jet? https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/19930227/1687698/tw...
Except they assumed that it'd be a 707 and also that'd be at landing speed of about 180mph ... not a 767 (which could be as much as 2x a 707 in take off weight) doing almost 600 mph.
A plane larger than a Cessna, but still no jumbo jet, crashed into a mall https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2010/12/21/the-sunvalley-mall-p... - 7 people died. Tragic, but it goes to show that SIZE DOES MATTER.
Also also. "no alarm bells" is highly dependent on location. If this "stolen" plane were to have flown into highly controlled airspace without approvals, you can bet your ass that alarm bells would have gone off. But the person flying the plane knew what they were doing and where they were going. They went away from busy areas and didn't anything out of the ordinary.
Is there still many reasons this could be a problem? Sure. But invoking the terrorism word is full FUD, the likes of which the media loves to use. And ends us with security theater like shampoo size limits.
The landside area was packed to the brim with travelers waiting in line, mixed with the people on their way to check-in pushing their trollies loaded with suitcases.
I've never been so scared, waiting in line for security, as I imagined how easily anyone could pack 6-7 huge suitcases filled with explosives onto a trolley in the parking lot right outside, move into the packed crowd without suspicion and set it off.
No need to get on a plane.
At the uncontrolled community airport I got my PPL at there were a few pilots who were known to have expired medical certificates and long expired flight reviews flying planes that they owned that hadn't had an annual inspection in years. All older guys who had nothing to lose if the FAA found out and grounded them.
I'm not sure why the owner of that aircraft doesn't setup an alert for it's tail number on one of the many aviation tracking sites. Call the airport management, police or local FBO once he sees it on approach to land at some airport.
If you're someone that has enough land to make a strip and can afford the plane, you'd be amazed at what you can "get away" with out the anyone of authority noticing.
That said how is the airport not doing something about this? They just keep letting it happen?
It's not so easy to land a plane in real life, even if you have a lot of flightsim experience. It is definitely possible and there are people who have done it, but I don't think it's the norm. A lot of flying, especially landing, involves sensory inputs. Additionally, replacing the battery in that Cessna probably requires taking the cowling off. Not properly securing the battery or cowling may result in a bad time if something comes loose. Once again, doable, but you can do as quickly as you can with a car.
> I know literally nothing about flying. How does this work? Wouldn't the air traffic controllers see it on radar and try to radio it then call in the military (I've probably watched too many movies.)? Always blows my mind when I hear this kind of stuff in this day and age.
If you takeoff from an uncontrolled airport and stay clear of controlled and restricted airspace you don't have to say a single thing on any radio and no one will care about you. The controllers would see the blip on their radars but there's no requirements to check in with them (although it's generally a good idea) so they'll mostly keep other aircraft who they are talking to away from you.
Now, if you do fly into controlled airspace near an airport with a tower without talking to anyone, things will change. A slight excursion into the controlled airspace for a short time may go unnoticed, but the more blatant and prolonged the deviation, the larger the response will be. Fly into LAX's airspace and get in the way of their flights and you'll eventually get a visit from some friendly fighter jets. (There are some exceptions. For instance, there's a few narrow corridors through LAX's airspace that don't require talking to ATC. One of those corridors even goes directly over LAX's runways at a few thousand feet.)
https://people.howstuffworks.com/richard-russell.htm
Seems plausible that something like that may be going on here
------
Interestingly, airplanes can also get repossessed. Special pilots get all the legal paperwork arranged and just show up and fly a plane out.
I suppose the high skill needed means that most pilots wouldn't want to steal airplanes, and it would not make sense to steal any airplane that needs special support from the manufacturer (the new owner can't keep it flying). Cars are much lower skill to steal and maintain and have a much broader market.
https://aerocorner.com/blog/what-happened-to-airplane-repo/
Flying one in a safe manner and following all the rules can be pretty difficult however. For example there is an area near me that is from the air as boring as any other part of Texas. It's controlled airspace because it is the Bush Family Ranch. The secret service will investigate you if you fly over it.
You can also easily get yourself killed through a stall/spin, flying into IMC/bad weather, etc.
A lot of pilot training is how to plan for weather, check performance, handle emergencies, and not create chaos for everyone else.
1. Landing.
2. Knowing what to do when things go wrong. Any time you read about jets avoiding near collisions, landing in heavy crosswinds, landing safely after engine failure, etc etc, you have many checklists and years of rigorous training to thank for that.
My understanding was you cannot fly without filing a flight plan (or is this just a Canada-specific thing?), and that flight plan has to be submitted by someone, so there has to be a trail here. If the plans were not filed, after all, how would he be able to tell the plane was flown "multiple times" during one of this extended absences?
EDIT: Yes it's Canada-specific, required for any flights over 25 nautical miles, including VFR https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-96-433/p...
On the other hand you can't enter Clasa B airspace (the airspace around large airports) without permission from ATC. You also can't fly above 18,000ft in the US under VFR. That keeps small planes mostly away from the big jets.
I mean "Class B" airspace, which is mostly used in the USA. The ICAO definitions specify what the airspace classifications mean generally but each country often has its own slight variations of the rules.
Class B/C/D is airspace where contact with ATC is required but differs in separation policies. IFR traffic is always kept separated from other IFR traffic.
A: IFR only B: All aircraft kept separated by ATC. IFR-VFR and VFR-VFR are all ATC's responsibility. C: IFR traffic kept away from VFR traffic. VFR must watch out for other VFR. D: IFR must watch out for VFR (only kept away from other IFR).
Flying home one day he found himself flanked by two fighter jets and escorted to the nearest commercial airport. He was hustled into the back of a black SUV and taken to his home where is family was gathered in the living room giving statements to a bunch of men in suits. Turns out the POTUS was is town for a visit, and my friends father had failed to read the temporary flight restriction advisory..
My 1200 flights frequently show up on FlightAware, FYI.
In the U.S., ATC does not receive VFR flight plans (except for the weird special case of the D.C. SFRA, but even those are filed as IFR flight plans), only Search and Rescue. Flying in instrument conditions requires being on an IFR flight plan.
You'd think maybe the DEA, ATF, FBI and/or FAA would find enough interest in this to operate some level of sting operation or crack down.