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Posted by u/nswizzle31 3 months ago
I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemicwave3.social...
The other day I saw a post here on HN that featured a NYT article called "Where Have All My Deep Male Friendships Gone?" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44098369) and it definitely hit home. As a guy in my early 30s, it made me realize how I've let many of my most meaningful friendships fade. I have a good group of friends - and my wife - but it doesn't feel like when I was in college and hung out with a crew of 10+ people on a weekly basis. So, I decided to do something about it. I’ve launched wave3.social - a platform to help guys build in-person social circles with actual depth. Think parlor.social or timeleft for guys: curated events and meaningful connections for men who don’t want their friendships to atrophy post-college.

It started as a Boston-based idea (where I live), but I built it with flexibility in mind so it could scale to other cities if there’s interest. It’s intentionally not on Meetup or Facebook - I wanted something that feels more intentional, with a better UX and less noise.

Right now, I'm in the “see if this resonates with anyone” stage. If this sounds interesting to you and you're in Boston or another city where this type of thing might be needed, drop a comment or shot me an email. I'd love to hear any feedback on the site and ideas on how we can fix the male loneliness epidemic in the work-from-home era.

keiferski · 3 months ago
This idea appears every once in awhile, as it’s obviously a major issue in modern life.

The interesting thing though is how the solution is always location-agnostic. By that I mean it’s never really about a specific cafe or restaurant or soccer field, it’s always an app or service that organizes people to show up in various places.

I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few decades or a century ago, they were almost always a specific place.

The neighborhood cafe where locals can stop by at any time and see other locals. The bar that everyone stops by after work twice a week. These are stationary physical locations that don’t require pre-planning, schedules, apps, or anything else.

JimDabell · 3 months ago
It’s not always location-agnostic, but you’re more likely to hear about location-agnostic efforts because they have further reach.

For instance Men’s Sheds are a local effort with a thousand locations in the UK:

> Men’s Sheds encourage people to come together to make, repair and repurpose, supporting projects in their local communities. Improving wellbeing, reducing loneliness and combatting social isolation.

> Research gathered by the UKMSA Health and Wellbeing Survey, 2023, suggests 96% of Men’s Shed attendees feel less lonely since joining a Shed.

https://menssheds.org.uk

Unfortunately, sometimes you get things like this happening:

> 'We put the pressure on to join Men in Sheds'

> The 74-year-old added: "Eventually they let us in, just one morning, eventually it became all the time, and now it's 50% women, and we absolutely love it."

> When the women were allowed into the workshop, members decided to keep a quiet room with a model railway display in it, just for men.

> "We [the men] escape now and again [to the quiet room] and have a chat and weigh things up."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg5qd9l3094o

bcraven · 3 months ago
You have selectively quoted that article. Note the last four paragraphs are:

>Andrew McNerney, 70, admitted there was initially some resistance to becoming a mixed group.

>He said: "There was apprehension, but in all honesty, it's turned out well.

>"We [the men] escape now and again [to the quiet room] and have a chat and weigh things up."

>But he added: "It's a lovely atmosphere, and it's been good."

notarobot123 · 3 months ago
The men are there to meet each other, not to avoid women. Gender segregation isn't the point - it's about building relationships.
lupusreal · 3 months ago
What I find a bit remarkable is how they lost control of their club dynamics so severely. I've been a regular attendee of a few hacker spaces that were open to the public but never had the problem they describe.

I think maybe a key aspect is ensuring that all men, particular the ones that are classically unattractive (even repulsive) feel welcome as valued equals. Many women cannot countenance this and will try to shape group membership to be more agreeable; those women are free to leave. The rest are welcome to stay and at that point there shouldn't be any issues.

(Of course it goes without saying that actual harassment isn't tolerated, but being a smelly fat slob with a heart of gold doesn't count.)

jamesdeluk · 3 months ago
Why didn't they start Women's Sheds?
ctippett · 3 months ago
I had never heard of Men's Sheds before. Thank you for mentioning it.
idiotsecant · 3 months ago
Yes, unfortunately sometimes social events are wildly successful and even more people want to join, and the existing members let them, and everyone has a great time together.

It's unfortunate, but it happens.

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immibis · 3 months ago
Why does the presence of women cause men to not have male friends?
lurk2 · 3 months ago
> The neighborhood cafe where locals can stop by at any time and see other locals. The bar that everyone stops by after work twice a week. These are stationary physical locations that don’t require pre-planning, schedules, apps, or anything else.

I’ve seen a number a theories on why these spaces declined:

1. Social media became more engaging than actual hangouts.

2. Rising levels of cultural and ethnic diversity lead to lower levels of social trust and a subsequent exit from public spaces (see e.g. Robert Putnam).

3. Independent bars and cafes got bought out by chains that favored higher rates of table turnover.

4. Civil Liberties movement made America into an open air insane asylum that normal people avoid venturing into.

5. Wages not keeping pace with inflation leaves less discretionary income available to pay for these spaces.

6. Decline of fraternal orders, friendly societies, and veteran clubhouses which were often the owners of the bars and / or cafes.

maerF0x0 · 3 months ago
(Similar to 2)

7. A loss of a common religious practice creating a space for community, and in the case of evangelical Christianity a shift to a female driven congregation and preaching.

(Which, ultimately, is very sad for the women in the church, too, because a lot of them want to be married to a Christian man, but struggle to find one if only for a purely supply issue)

_DeadFred_ · 3 months ago
1. True. When I was younger we all went to XYZ coffee shop in large part to see who we ran into there, catch up on gossip, let people know where to come hang that night. With social media you don't have/need that.

3. When I was younger we did item 1 above, but at Denny's late at night after everything shut down. The fact it was a chain didn't seem to impact the hang potential.

4. I grew up in Santa Cruz and it was always an insane asylum and had a homeless problem before having a homeless problem was cool, but it was also always a city full of people hanging out (don't know anymore was forced to move away).

carabiner · 3 months ago
Last one I tried was Grouper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grouper_social_club

You'd meet up for dinner at a local place that was usually pretty good, with 2-3 other people, mostly tech-adjacent. Dinners were pretty polite, a little awkward, mildly stimulating, but I never made real relationships from it. Seems like the same idea has emerged with https://timeleft.com.

I don't know. It seems like the best way to make friends is to force people to do some other task next to each other a few days per week and let things form organically after they are around each other for a few years.

lotsofpulp · 3 months ago
> I don't know. It seems like the best way to make friends is to force people to do some other task next to each other a few days per week and let things form organically after they are around each other for a few years.

You need a “shared struggle” to build tribal bonds. Some kind of us vs it or us vs them narrative. A simple get together where everyone spends money and has a good time is never going to accomplish that.

That is why immigrant groups, religious groups, professional groups, etc are more resilient, and successive generations that experience more independence end up splintering and otherwise loosening the bonds.

See also hazing in militaries/sports teams/“Greek” organizations/etc (not that I condone hazing).

kelnos · 3 months ago
> ... with 2-3 other people, mostly tech-adjacent.

This IMO is a part of the problem. I don't want more tech friends. Not that there's anything wrong with us, but I want more diversity in my friend groups. And I'm tired of many hangouts eventually devolving into chats about tech-related topics.

scelerat · 3 months ago
It seems to me that an underlying assumption of every so-called "social" app is that its users wish to avoid contact with people in real life. That the users wish for some sanitized, safe and dimensionally meager simulacrum of human interaction.

Obviously, that's not an absolute; clearly people yearn for human contact. But as you point out, there was a time when people participated in social activities and public life with a much higher degree of physical presence than they do now, and the popularity of apps which sidestep this indicate to me that people also desire not to engage with others so proximately.

If you want to have relationships with people, go to where people actually are, buckle your belt, set aside your dread of rejection or indifference, and introduce yourself.

KolibriFly · 3 months ago
There's something irreplaceable about place-based community
km144 · 3 months ago
Probably that's just how we were wired. I'm probably often guilty of invoking an appeal to nature [1] when it comes to these things, but it's striking to me how few people who exist in modern society have the capacity to acknowledge that to live in this society is to entirely live within an experiment whose parameters have evolved from generation to generation over the past few centuries. We do not think critically enough about which of the technologies that "enhance" our lives actually enhance them. If personal automobiles are good for us, then to what end are they good? If social media is good for us, then to what end is it good? When you go beyond the first or second question, you start to realize the societal good is dubious at best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

BlueTemplar · 3 months ago
Not always, but this is the Internet, and Hacker News : if you freaking love hammers, everything starts to look like a nail.
flowingfocus · 3 months ago
> The neighborhood cafe where locals can stop by at any time and see other locals

This is still the norm in some places. When I was cycling through the Balkans, I was surprised how many people sit in public spaces, usually close to a kiosk, and play cards, throw dice, or just chatter

jajko · 3 months ago
Whole southern Europe is like that (sitting now in a small trattorria in Liguria province in Italy, I see this everywhere, and ie Spain, Portugal or Greece is same).

The problem mostly arises in big cities where a lot of young move for work, I'd call those socially sterile places.

lavelganzu · 3 months ago
Isn't this merely a technological change? "A few decades or a century ago", being location-specific was the only possible option for a social club. Now there are more options; location-specific options still exist, and location-agnostic options exist also.

You can totally pick a convenient cafe or pub and start hanging out there & inviting your existing friends. In time you'll start to recognize the other regulars, and you can make a point of chatting with them regularly (but not overstaying your welcome especially early on!), find out what they're interested in, offer & request small favors, crack jokes, eventually a bit of friendly competition, casual debate about mutual interests while intentionally trusting them enough to let them change your mind a little, etc -- all the things you'd normally do to build a social connection with another man. The upside and downside of a location-based approach is that it's a very weak filter. The other regulars may be people whom it's a real stretch to learn to connect with.

Location-agnostic social activities are typically focused on an activity or interest, e.g. people who want to hike, watch a movie, play a game or sport, do political activism, do community service, etc. So the social group comes with a filter attached that ensures you will have an easier time connecting with them. This is great! There are some downsides, too, but nothing serious.

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Euphorbium · 3 months ago
You are not supposed to stop by. You are supposed to spend money and keep going.
lovestory · 3 months ago
Here in the Balkans and most of European countries always have public squares or similar gathering place for each neighborhood. I was shocked when I visited some USA states that absolutely have nothing of that sort. Not even a park that is tailored for a few hours hangout sessions. Even some public spaces like parks and library gardens are filled with corporate interests like Starbucks. You absolutely are expected to spend money whenever you go out which is depressing af.
teddyh · 3 months ago
If the business doesn’t make enough money it will not be able to pay rent, and will be replaced with a more profitable business which will make enough money, probably by pressuring people to instead be customers, pay and move on. It’s what the system will produce.
yowzadave · 3 months ago
I agree with this; I think part of the societal problem is one of poor urban planning. I’m lucky to live in a neighborhood in New York (Sunnyside) that has a park that is the hub of everyone’s social life—most nights of the week, people show up, bring some food, and chat/share dinner and drinks while the kids run around playing unsupervised. This is extremely rare in the US, which is dominated by suburban typologies that feature individual homes and relatively few communal spaces. The shared spaces, like restaurants/bars/etc. tend to be places you have to drive to, and therefore have less of a connection to their community and less of a regular clientele. Everyone wants to have their own backyard…which is fine, but leads to people hanging out alone in their own backyard rather than with their friends and neighbors.
cess11 · 3 months ago
It's about brand. This is tailored to a kind of person that feels confused and lost in a setting without a brand, so classics like joining an association around a hobby or a union or the freemasons or whatever makes them feel uncomfortable.

It's not only about one's own identity, but also the other participants.

Eddy_Viscosity2 · 3 months ago
Location specific is better, because if you just know that a particular spot has the kind of people and atmosphere that is inviting and pleasant to be in, you just go there. No need to check-in or schedule a meeting or anything else. Frequent regular interval fixed-time events are good too. I used to part of a racquet club that just had an open session all evening twice a week. You just show up and play and so did everyone else. You put your name up and are just play whoever is next for a game, then wait, then play someone else. You get to play a variety of people and when waiting your turn you can chat and get to know the other players. 5 stars system.
0xfaded · 3 months ago
Last time I was in Prague my friend brought me straight to the local pub, and without even ordering beer came out. Everyone knew each other and each other's dogs (Prague is very dog friendly, in fact one of the dogs was in the kitchen begging scraps). I have vague memories of similar scenes growing up in Australia, and have seen similar in Ireland. I don't know if anywhere like it in US cities, but maybe it's still like that out in the country.
Alex_Notchenko · 3 months ago
I run local communities (specifically a London based Russian Language Machine Learning and AI community, hit me up if you are interested) it's 100% cannot survive long term without a locus in physical space. Online only exists to facilitate offline, if people are just avatars and not real people, there is a hard limit to what can be achieved in a community, its a question of trust.
seydor · 3 months ago
It's a matter of process: first exposure to many people, then filtering. That's how it works in school, work etc. Ideally one would plan to gather a ton of people in a crowded place, like a large concert or church.
fellowniusmonk · 3 months ago
I co-ran a very transformative social club as a co-working space for several years.

People still talk about it years later.

It's not hard to do if you have the space.

But you have to have the space.

msgodel · 3 months ago
Many of us are alone and not lonely and I think most men who feel "lonely" are lying to themselves about what socialization really is.
unhappy_meaning · 3 months ago
Yup, a lot of the men who are lonely are also a bit of an outcast whether it's self-imposed because of their warped sense of socialization or they're ostracized because they have weird takes on life issues or just life itself.

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more_corn · 3 months ago
Yeah my first thought reading the headline was “isn’t this just called the pub”?
timnetworks · 3 months ago
sounds like someone was never a foursquare mayor :)

pokemon go was a notable example that got people out of the house (and sometimes into adventure..)

antisthenes · 3 months ago
I mean, you do realize you FIRST need to be location-agnostic to find some people, right?

Only then can your group start to develop favorite local places to hang around at.

> I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few decades or a century ago, they were almost always a specific place.

Which is basically irrelevant, as you can come up with a similar example of pre-covid, during-covid and post-covid changes for how people hang out. People adapt pretty quickly.

> The neighborhood cafe where locals can stop by at any time and see other locals. The bar that everyone stops by after work twice a week.

I'm not sure these places really ever existed with such a stability as you describe outside of _really_ small towns. Like under 5000 pop towns.

keiferski · 3 months ago
I'm not sure these places really ever existed with such a stability as you describe outside of _really_ small towns. Like under 5000 pop towns.

These places exist today, in numerous major cities around the world. I live near one.

maxehmookau · 3 months ago
Yeah, to me this is another arm of that old idea that every few years, someone in Silicon Valley reinvents the bus.

Place-based community is key, and can't be fixed with an app, or a service. Not long-term anyway.

Multicomp · 3 months ago
The lack of deep friendships feel like a 3-fold problem.

1. You can't ever be real, if you are real, you are likely to be recorded doing something someone somewhere on the largest stage in the world (the public web) that someone will disapprove of, and someone else will raise their own profile by mining your impiety to prove their own concern and moral superiority.

2. Everyone is so mobile and connected online, they never have to break the ice and talk to those around them in the breakroom or geographical space, so all of our social skills have atrophied at best, or were never learned at worst. We know just enough civility to not get in fights, but we don't know how to easily break the ice or become acquaintances.

3. All the people that live in the cities are not close with each other, they didn't grow up together and don't go to church / rotary club / male-only spaces any longer because we are all supposed to pretend to be cool liberated yuppies in a hookup culture. Can't have real ties or any strongly held beliefs, that would make you religious (or worse, Religious on an actual religion), those people are bad. So I'm okay, you're okay, and we all smile. And inside, no real connections are ever made.

Not to mention testosterone levels dropping, schools being geared towards women, always co-ed spaces, and a breakup of younger and older generations because of cultural differences there too...not that the old people are always nice.

tdb7893 · 3 months ago
"if you are real, you are likely to be recorded doing something someone somewhere on the largest stage in the world (the public web) that someone will disapprove of" -> is this a concern for many men? It's never crossed my mind or been a problem for anyone I've known.

"they never have to break the ice and talk to those around them in the breakroom or geographical space" -> I've always talked to people at work and also I joined the most socially awkward hobby I've ever seen (historical sword fencing) and people are still very chatty. I also recently started volunteering at a wildlife rehabilitator and find myself just constantly chatting.

"Can't have real ties or any strongly held beliefs, that would make you religious (or worse, Religious on an actual religion), those people are bad" -> I've been friends with a lot of religious people but also non-religious people have strongly held beliefs (I hang out with a lot of vegans and I cannot imagine claiming they are afraid to publicly hold strong beliefs).

I think your post just goes to show how different mens' experiences can be because, while I'm sure a lot of men probably can connect with this, my personal experiences could not be more opposite. I think it depends a ton on the sorts of crowds you run in, it almost sounds to me like the people you meet are generally judgy and antisocial but I've found people I'm around to be generally friendly (though I've found many people are happy to chat but are often hard to actually organize to otherwise hang out since people in their 30s are busy and some of my friends have kids now).

rchaud · 3 months ago
> is this a concern for many men? It's never crossed my mind or been a problem for anyone I've known.

Not for me, I have been to plenty of meetups in my city. If you're not liked or don't get along with the others, the worst that can happen is that you'll be politely ostracized. The paranoia about being publicly "cancelled" seems very overblown.

mrweasel · 3 months ago
> is this a concern for many men? It's never crossed my mind or been a problem for anyone I've known

Yes, I talk to an older guy, probably mid-50s, at my gym. He completely stopped helping women at the gym or even giving advise. To my knowledge, no one ever accused him of anything, but he acknowledge that he absolutely have no experience talking to or otherwise interacting with younger women. He is terrified of doing or saying something wrong and lose access to the only gym in town, so he simply avoided women at the gym. He helps out the men, young and old, just not women.

const_cast · 3 months ago
IMO this mostly stems from not having walkable, livable communities. People live in detached homes and they drive to work and the grocery store and… that’s it.

There’s next to zero room for random events because travel becomes such a deliberate action. I can’t just pop into a cafe - first I need to find it and drive there.

Also our social signals are completely fucked up. Headphones and phones means that most interactions are off-limits. Probably a lot of these people do want to talk, but they’re not signaling it. And I’m not gonna be the one to bother a stranger.

wkat4242 · 3 months ago
1) Real friends certainly let you be real. And the scene I frequent deeply frowns on unconsensual photography. Most of the events I go to they sticker all the cameras. I love that. I go there for the people not for Instagram.

That's not to say nobody takes pics but they do it in a quiet corner so they don't catch anyone by mistake. It makes it very respectful. The stickers are just a reminder so you don't just start flicking away when you're drunk. It makes everyone feel safer and more genuine.

2) I guess but nothing some quick ice breaking games won't fix

3) In a small town there's much more familiarity yes. But also a much deeper sense of being watched and judged. I can't live with that. Even the small city I lived in was too small for me. Everyone knows everyone's business and constantly gossip behind your back.

The nice thing in a big city is meeting new people and finding new places. And the variety. In a small town there's a lot of pressure to conform, eg often you're an outcast if you're not religious. I don't think they're bad but there's little acceptance of people who are different. So what do you do? Pretend. That's not real connection.

In a big city you can really be yourself because there's always others that are like you and you can meet them in like-minded places or events. And you can make real ties there. And even find out about other communities you might fit in.

I really hate going to male-exclusive places by the way. There's very few men I have a deep connection with (I'm male) because the whole BS thing that it's frowned upon to talk about feelings. "Men's weekends" just end up with too much beer, macho talk, shooting the shit and hanging in front of the TV watching boring sports or crappy porn. Nothing serious, fun or enlightening. That's my experience with those anyway. I find that exhausting and I always excuse myself from them now. I used to try to fit in but the others would know I hated it anyway so it was awkward.

I have much deeper relationships with lady friends. They're more open and less judgemental in general. I feel safer around them. So mixed events are a must for me.

margalabargala · 3 months ago
> Men's weekends" just end up with [...] hanging in front of the TV watching boring sports or crappy porn.

How many situations are you in where group consumption of pornography is normal? I've been in very few.

worthless-trash · 3 months ago
> In a big city you can really be yourself because there's always others that > are like you and you can meet them in like-minded places. > And you can make real ties there.

This is a massive assumption, but maybe 'yourself' is limited to a standard deviation from the accepted mean.

nothercastle · 3 months ago
Where do you go where they sticker cameras. Seems like my kind of place.
jaredklewis · 3 months ago
IME, none of those things are issues that prevent deep friendships in my own life.

1. I've never worried about this.

2. I regularly chat with strangers and acquaintances IRL, though I don't feel it does much to relieve loneliness or cultivate deep friendships.

3. I'm an atheist, but I don't think I've ever worried about being "religious" about something nor judged someone for being so.

I would analyze my own life as follows: friendship requires time spent together. I'm a parent with a full time job in a car centric city, which keeps me pretty busy. I may get one day or night a week to go be social or do hobbies or go to a rotary club or whatever. That's a limited amount of time, so there's a corresponding limit on how many friendships I can realistically maintain. Let alone start new friendships.

So I feel like "having it all" is not realistic. Everything takes time: working out, eating healthy, having friends, having a family, having a job, having a community, writing hacker news comments, and on and on. Most data shows that Dads now spend significantly more time with their kids than those of previous generations. So I think for people of my cohort (millennial dads) its just a case where we traded time with friends for time with family.

losteric · 3 months ago
This is incredibly fatalistic.

I lived under all of this, plus two immigrant parents with no community / role modeling, isolated in suburbia as a kid with a chronically online 20s.

Yeah that nurturing left its mark. Yet I learned to see it, and learn new patterns. In my 30s I have deep friendships. Younger, older, men, women, nb. Most are still shallow, my energy is limited, but even there sometimes we touch into depth when it comes to relationship or existential stuff.

Rewrite your programming.

crtnptofvw · 3 months ago
For me things like “loneliness epidemic” is fatalistic. End is nigh if some specific stat is not maintained. Giant foot will squish us all.

It’s pop-sci, gate-keeping, always be hustling zeitgeist obfuscated by high minded toxic positivity.

Media post says there’s an epidemic. Academics come up with a theory of social science in a world where the Executive branch is blatantly manipulating the market. Fed and Congress manipulate employment options, COL through rates and tax code.

Predictions of 10-12 billion people by 2100 do not line up with real birth trends.

So much of our social truisms are made up cable TV hype that zapped the elders brains into anxious compliance. Narratives propagated in service to a random researchers rent and food money search.

Fatalistic towards a social concept is not the same as “launch the nukes, humans suck.” Non-Christians can not believe without going about shooting Christians. Not accepting someone’s dissertation is the same thing.

JKCalhoun · 3 months ago
> You can't ever be real, if you are real, you are likely to be recorded doing something…

I'm real all the time. What am I missing here?

rchaud · 3 months ago
The 800lb elephant in the room about this whole idea - some people have trouble building friendships because they can't stop themselves from bringing up fringe topics with people they just met, and insisting on having conversations about them.
mock-possum · 3 months ago
You’re missing that you’re probably not the kind of person who has the problem being outlined in the comment you’re replying to.

For what it’s worth, I remember being a closeted teenager, I remember feeling like I “couldn’t” be real - but that feeling was wrong. I just hadn’t figured that out yet at the time. It seemed too scary, too risky to be real. That’s probably one of the only pieces of advice I would have given my younger self if I could go back in time - come out sooner, come out before you’re ready, come out as bi before you know you’re gay, come out as curious/questioning before that even.

Force other people to deal with you as you are, instead of constantly working to make yourself into something that you think will be more acceptable to them. Take the risk of being real.

tbrownaw · 3 months ago
> What am I missing here?

"Friends" who prioritize being angry and spiteful online over their meatspace relationships, sounds like.

entropie · 3 months ago
Your points are valid, but this I do not understand:

> Not to mention testosterone levels dropping

Why should declining testosterone levels prevent men from socializing and making friends? Logically, it should be the other way around, right?

BurningFrog · 3 months ago
Increased testosterone increases confidence, motivation, goal-oriented behavior, risk-taking and social assertiveness.
mensetmanusman · 3 months ago
It’s just the adders for all the other health metrics declining. Most are due to addiction to pleasure, lack of movement, obesity, etc.
mock-possum · 3 months ago
I do think that the kind of people that complain about the male loneliness epidemic are the kind of people who would struggle with those issues-

The only way to establish relationships is to be real - so of course if you believe you can’t be real, that’ll be a problem.

Relationships kick off and grow and solidify via socializing - so of course if you’ve let your social skills atrophy and believe you have no chance to practice and improve them, that’ll be a problem.

Your third point sounds like it’s really just a combination of your first two points, discomfort with being open and honest with others, and discomfort with intentionally socializing with strangers. Of course if you avoid those things to spare yourself the discomfort, you’re also avoiding the opportunity to make friends.

The rest of it (testosterone? Co-ed?) sounds like bullshit to me.

What I hear you being concerned about is: people don’t see the value in leaving their comfort zone in order to pursue what they want. Those fears you mention about not being real, and not knowing how to socialize, and not being around others, and being forced to go to schools for women (??) just sound like irrational fears to me. None of that stuff will kill you.

If being a man is anything, then surely, being a man is facing those kinds of situations and saying “this makes me uncomfortable but it has to be done, I am afraid but I will do it anyway.”

For me, that is the male loneliness epidemic, if such a thing even exists - it’s the unwillingness of some men to face their fears and do what needs to be done to make a connection with another human being.

dtdynasty · 3 months ago
Overall I agree with the point that people don't take the effort to change themselves and connect with another human being.

> The only way to establish relationships is to be real

Personally, I found emotional dissonance when people tell me this phrase. For a long time, acting like myself has ostracized me from other people and built shallow relationships. It's only when I didn't act like myself and faked it until it became a habit did I build deeper friendships.

It's emotionally difficult when your natural way of acting is not accepted.

nathan_compton · 3 months ago
Don't get me wrong, I hate religion and everything, but America is still basically totally controlled by religious people and in many situations being non-religious is the weird thing. I can't imagine anyone would be feel stigmatized by religious belief in this country.
parpfish · 3 months ago
> Everyone is so mobile and connected online, they never have to break the ice and talk to those around them

one of the unexpected consequences of social media is that people have been conflating being informed with being connected.

asking "what have you been up to?" was to be a nice easy opening into a conversation that lead to connection.

but thanks to broadcast updates on social media, your friends already know what have you've been up to, so they can delude themselves into thinking that they've maintained a relationship because they know superficial details.

but a relationship isn't built on updating a list of superficial facts. it's built by having a conversation

mynameisash · 3 months ago
> thanks to broadcast updates on social media, your friends already know what have you've been up to, so they can delude themselves into thinking that they've maintained a relationship because they know superficial details.

This is a huge reason (possibly the top reason) why I quit Facebook. I wasn't getting value from my "connections", and I figured everyone knew, more or less, what I was doing (& I knew what they were doing), so we didn't actually interact. I figured if I was no longer going to be friends with these people, I didn't want a facade. So I quit it, and I don't use the other usual suspects (Instagram, Snapchat, tiktok, etc.)

It's great. I actually have some honest to goodness friends IRL that I hug, with whom I talk about real things, etc.

tayo42 · 3 months ago
>but thanks to broadcast updates on social media, your friends already know what have you've been up to, so they can delude themselves into thinking that they've maintained a relationship because they know superficial details.

I don't think this is really a big deal. "hey I saw you posted pictures from your trip. How was it" there, conversation started. Social media posts are basically all conversation starters.

Assuming you can even remember. I pretty quickly forget people's posts and updates.

BlueTemplar · 3 months ago
Hasn't this kind of usage of « social media » died down a decade ago ?
nswizzle31 · 3 months ago
Appreciate the thoughts - totally agree on those issues, but I don't think the problem is insurmountable. There is a real - albeit latent, maybe - demand for deep friendship and male-only spaces. Everyone recognizes it's an issue, at the very least, and is being more vocal about it in the face of the dramatic enshittification of the internet over the last few years.

It just takes too much self-discipline to break out of the internet consistently enough to build meaningful relationships without someone / something taking the initiative. I am sort of trying to replicate that at a larger scale by removing any friction to making plans.

Would love to hear your thoughts on if / what you think the solution is.

Animats · 3 months ago
> deep friendship and male-only spaces.

Gun ranges?

EGreg · 3 months ago
Here are my thoughts… well, an article about my thoughts anyway:

https://www.laweekly.com/restoring-healthy-communities/

gaws · 3 months ago
> You can't ever be real, if you are real, you are likely to be recorded doing something someone somewhere on the largest stage in the world (the public web) that someone will disapprove of, and someone else will raise their own profile by mining your impiety to prove their own concern and moral superiority.

Well said. This is a massive problem.

bb88 · 3 months ago
Male cops have changed from being thin and fit men (or average man) in the 1960's to large men with muscles, and sometimes roid rage.

People earn good money playing video games now (that wasn't the case in the 1980's) or streaming video games.

The sports heros children had while growing up used performance enhancing drugs in the 1990's.

> Not to mention testosterone levels dropping, schools being geared towards women, always co-ed spaces ...

If your childhood heros take the lazy way to success, why do we need to blame it on the other things? Using your brain is hard, as it turns out.

I've always detested parents who saw sports as the only path of success for their children. So often they were disappointed. If the parents spent time and sucked up and learned the math/science/etc their kids were learning, it may have been a better outcome for all involved.

daseiner1 · 3 months ago
Is your comment just in response to the falling testosterone levels point? Because that’s been an ongoing trend since I believe the 80s and has absolutely nothing to do with performance enhancing drugs. Testosterone levels being in healthy range is absolutely critical for men’s health for psychological as well as physical reasons and being in said healthy range is unrelated with sports culture. Whether meathead or whiz kid, physical activity, healthy food, good sleep, limited drugs & alcohol, and minimal or no pornography are all essential parts of reaching one’s peak.

Maybe I’m totally misinterpreting your comment but it kinda just seems like a diatribe unrelated to the comment you’re responding to.

scoofy · 3 months ago
I've never felt more connected to people than in NYC. I knew my neighbors, I had a huge social network, I just didn't like the NYC that much.

I honestly blame residential zoning. The place we would get to know our neighbors was at the corner shop, bar a block away, salon and pizza shop downstairs. All that goes away when you're walking more than a couple blocks to do anything.

forgotoldacc · 3 months ago
I always hear stereotypes about people in big cities being unfriendly and there being no sense of community, but I've had the opposite experience. Coming from a town with a population of hundreds, yeah, everyone knew everybody, but the connections people had were decades old. And everyone hated everybody who wasn't already part of their very tight social network (and they hated most of the people in the network as well, but they just had no other choice but to deal with it). And nobody wanted to associate with direct neighbors.

But living in a city, I've had shopkeepers who regularly see me set aside items that they know I'll like and make sure nobody buys it before I get a chance. I have neighbors that greet me every time they see me. Some chat me up. I've stopped in random hole in the wall restaurants and had other regulars (who I didn't know) randomly give me free stuff to welcome me to the community. People were willing to welcome new people in.

Now I know people will want to rush in and say, "That's not a city experience. My small town has all that and your small town just sucked!" To which I say, okay. That's your anecdote against mine. But cities are just as welcoming as people think small towns are. If you choose to stay in your room and grimace every time you do happen to go outside, yeah, it's lonely. But it's very easy to turn that around in a city with potential friends everywhere you look. And having been to cities around the world, I see loads of people chatting and laughing outside.

scoofy · 3 months ago
Yea, I loved the relationships in NYC, just not the grind. Everyone was trying to "make it" everything was expensive while at the same time there is garbage juice on the street in 90º heat. I'd go see my friends shows, but never got on the list because they had to get paying customers to get invited back. Tough living, and that's not even saying anything about trying to be a cyclist in the city.

I've lived in SF for the last decade, and I really see a difference. I know it's not that much less urban than Brooklyn or Queens, but it's the zoning. I don't have a convenience store on my block, much less a pizza restaurant or salon. We have a local bar, and have a similar relationship with the folks there as we did in Brooklyn, which is nice, but again, it's hard to get to know the folks in your "commercial zoned district" because everyone is slammed together, and you don't see them every day. Even though I live three blocks away, I'm still a face on the crowd.

There's honestly a big difference between a shop on your street and a shop a few blocks away... because everyone in the neighborhood is a few blocks away.

Telemakhos · 3 months ago
Sometimes I wish we could have "gentlemen's clubs" of the sort that existed in Victorian Britain (not the US strip club version), third-spaces where one could go to read or converse or play cards with other men or even have a meal or a drink. Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today.
rchaud · 3 months ago
> Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today.

You just described a country club, right down to the innate classism and exclusivity rules.

Retric · 3 months ago
Country club’s are really a subset of this kind of thing and tend to have an overly wide membership to the point where you’re unlikely to know every member. The VFW is another modern take that’s got a very different vibe.

Similarly historically it wasn’t just elitist hangouts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men's_club

Aeolun · 3 months ago
Isn’t the whole point that you get people of similar socioeconomic status? Half the reason expensive things are sometimes nicer is that there’s no massive crowd in those stores.
gadders · 3 months ago
You also had Working Men's clubs and the British Legion for the working classes in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men%27s_club
unethical_ban · 3 months ago
It sounds great.

Like a bar, but you know that if they're there, they know a few people and aren't crazy.

BurningFrog · 3 months ago
Are male only country clubs legal?
prisenco · 3 months ago
I recommend everyone watch the series Lodge 49. It's free to watch with ads now.

Not only is a great show that touches on relationships and loneliness and modern alienation with a touch of magical realism and esoterica and alchemy but it focuses on a fraternal (in name only, women are members) order that your grandfather might have been a member of but have disappeared due to rising individualism, rising rents and displacement.

But there's no reason we couldn't start building them again. Not high end exclusive clubs like Soho House but just a place with books and a reasonable membership fee and a bar with cheap drinks for added revenue and occasional "open to the public" events.

There could be ones for software devs, ones focused on philosophy or great literature, ones for musicians or artists.

I've run the back-of-a-napkin numbers and even in expensive cities it doesn't seem impossible if your goal is to just break even and foster a community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2p1osv0jj8

Gigachad · 3 months ago
Think the main reason is because real estate is incredibly expensive now. To run some kind of social space and make it financially viable you need to be collecting a significant amount to pay rent and wages.

Only way I can see it working is if the government pays for social spaces. An extension of the library system but more focused on events and socialising rather than being a quiet space for reading.

Disposal8433 · 3 months ago
Freemasonry is hit or miss depending on who you meet and who you hangout with. Liberal freemasonry is even better IMHO because you actively work on yourself. You can choose to stay with men, be in a mixed group, and there are female only Lodges for the women who don't want to be with us stupid men.

I live in a big city where every member ends up knowing other member (male or female) even if your own Lodge is restricted to one sex. It's a lot of fun and I do believe it could be beneficial for a lot of incels.

adfm · 3 months ago
There’s even an episode with a shout-out to Huell Howser! Can recommend.

Also, do check out the interactive map at the Huell Howser Archive, if you haven’t seen it [^0].

[^0]: https://blogs.chapman.edu/huell-howser-archives/

ed · 3 months ago
I loved lodge 49. It inspired me to attend a welcome dinner at my local freemason lodge.

Sadly I discovered first hand why membership is declining (this lodge was a magnet for socially inept conspiracy theorists).

iamacyborg · 3 months ago
Soho House is pretty much the opposite of a high end exclusive club these days.
ks2048 · 3 months ago
> It's free to watch with ads now.

Where? I searched and didn't see any where free.

Dead Comment

dugmartin · 3 months ago
These still exist in the US but the membership has plummeted. Some examples:

    - Freemasons
    - Odd Fellows
    - Fraternal Order of Eagles
    - Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks
    - Loyal Order of Moose
We have an Eagle's "aerie" in my little town. It has a nice banquet hall area on the main floor and a member's only bar in the basement with pool tables and a deck that overlooks the river.

achow · 3 months ago
A billion dollar company started with this idea.

Schultz envisioned Starbucks as a “third place” between home and work, fostering community and connection.

https://mulcahyconsultants.com/2023/12/14/howard-schultz-and...

jonny_eh · 3 months ago
My local one removed all its seats and is now take out only.
chgs · 3 months ago
In the U.K. there were lots of their places before American style capitalism invaded. Coffee houses predate America as a whole - on both sides of the Atlantic.
Animats · 3 months ago
There's the Mechanics Institute Library in San Francisco. I used to be a member. If you want to see people sitting around in wing-backed chairs, half asleep, that's the place to go. It's quite a good library, too.
mitthrowaway2 · 3 months ago
You're not supposed to talk in a library, so it's explicitly not a social space.
aspenmayer · 3 months ago
Back in the day I would just go to Noisebridge and see what others were working on. Is that place still worth going to today?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge

wkat4242 · 3 months ago
Those clubs still exist in London but they're just for the elite to make shady backroom deals with their rich buddies :)

They're really exclusive and they always have been. You and I would not get in, not now and not in the Victorian days. Even 'new money' is usually not ok. You really have to have gone to the right school and have the right family.

moritonal · 3 months ago
Just to challenge that slightly. There is a range of clubs, some are honestly very easy to get into if you end up there for some work event and talk to at least two people. It's the ability to socialize, and lack of clubs focused on new industries that's made them elusive to the new-money (There isn't a National Software Club for example). I'll also knowledge most would run about £1-2k a quarter which is restrictive (by design) cost.
Veen · 3 months ago
The working class used to have working men’s clubs, but they no longer serve the same purpose.
erikerikson · 3 months ago
Cognitive habit problems aside, this is one of the primary provisions of churches/temples/et cetera. Frequently featuring gender divided activities.
monocularvision · 3 months ago
I realize that it is silly to tell non-believers to go to church to fix their problems but it’s funny how often people talk about place or group or organization that seems to be missing in society that was fulfilled by houses of worship in the past.
systemswizard · 3 months ago
These places exist but are usually financially prohibitive for most people, and that’s even if they meet whatever requirements they have to join
lolinder · 3 months ago
To be fair to our modern world this is how the Victorian gentleman's clubs were too—it's even in the name. If you weren't a gentleman you had the pub.
joshvm · 3 months ago
They exist at either end of the class spectrum. Working Men's Clubs used to be very common around the UK and many still exist. The one near my childhood home is Victorian-era and was recently refurbished. As long as I can remember it had frosted windows. That's now gone and it's been rebranded it as a family-friendly event space. It's basically a member subsidized pub and your drinks should cost less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men%27s_club

imp0cat · 3 months ago
Start one! I personally love this concept:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkryT4nOwA - Michigan Automotive Relic Society

pmc3 · 3 months ago
You don't have to wish - these literally exist today, both in the US (see link below) and elsewhere. The problem is that they are expensive and hard to get in to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gentlemen%27s_clubs_in...

NYC and London are both having a bit of a renaissance of new clubs being founded, although most of them are coed.

throwaway81523 · 3 months ago
Hacker spaces are sort of like that, it seems to me.
robotguy · 3 months ago
I am very sad that my local hackerspace seems to eschew any of the social aspects and focuses (at least outwardly from what I can see) solely on entrepreneurship.
fny · 3 months ago
I’ve often wondered what a contemporary free mason movement could be. I know they’re still around but their whole system is wildly arcane.
Disposal8433 · 3 months ago
Freemasonry cannot be modern by definition, but the closest would be liberal Freemasonry where the main rules are 1. Work on yourself with the help of your brothers and sisters (a bit like zen Buddhism), and 2. Apply the rules of Freemasonry in the outside world (mainly don't be an asshole).
anshumankmr · 3 months ago
the closest thing we have to that where i am are run clubs but they are now dangerously close to dating clubs
brightball · 3 months ago
That’s what country clubs have mostly been for decades. Makes me want to find the time to take up golf.
klooney · 3 months ago
I feel like our culture has a strong anti-golf bias. Now that I'm older, any reason to spend a couple hours outside with my friends sounds amazing.
ainiriand · 3 months ago
For me those were always local role playing associations, I was a member of 3 during my youth.

Me and my brother would go there after school to play some board games or dungeons and dragons during the weekends.

djdeutschebahn · 3 months ago
Whats the difference of your definition to a pub? Also they may be limited and there may exist rules on behavior.

At least you can/could play cards, converse with your fellows or some randoms.

joshvm · 3 months ago
> Whats the difference of your definition to a pub?

CAMRA's definition includes "Is open to the public without membership or residency" and a bunch more that amount to "does not necessarily serve food" to distinguish from restaurants.

Plasmoid · 3 months ago
Those still exist but often have very high membership fees. Thousands per year plus minimum spend amounts
monkeydust · 3 months ago
https://eastindiaclub.co.uk/ is a famous one that exists to this date with some of the antiquated rules. Been a few times with a friend who is a member.
nswizzle31 · 3 months ago
That is the exact long-term vision. Isn't that the absolute dream? Have to start a bit decentralized but I would love to eventually get a physical location to have that important third-space.
throwaway_95283 · 3 months ago
It's alive and well in south america. let the haters hate.
SilverSlash · 3 months ago
Remember watching the Lyon episode of Parts Unknown where Bourdain goes to a men's luncheon club. Looked real fun. Wish we had more of those.
skort · 3 months ago
How about just more third-spaces without the classist gatekeeping?
barry-cotter · 3 months ago
You can but then you need some other way to gatekeep because a community of trust has to have an inside and an outside. Someone needs to keep people who don’t belong out, for whatever value of “don’t belong” you want to build a community around.
lambdaphagy · 3 months ago
What's classist about having behavioral rules?

Dead Comment

KolibriFly · 3 months ago
I think any modern version would need to be way more inclusive and not just in terms of gender, but also class and background. The old-school gentlemen's clubs had a pretty narrow membership by design
phendrenad2 · 3 months ago
I agree. It doesn't take much to topple this idea. A few lawsuits over discrimination that the club is bankrupt.
pomian · 3 months ago
I think you should start one!
chinchilla2020 · 3 months ago
They sort of exist and do have women in them - but there are tons of tons of men you can meet with.

Sports clubs are full of friends you can make. I'm close with alot of guys that I train with.

Try tennis, or lifting, or running, or golf. Do NOT go to DnD meetups and other low effort stuff. Exertion is what forms bonds.

fiforpg · 3 months ago
I'd like to offer a contrarian view.

Much of the NYT article can be explained away by the Gell-Mann effect. During most of human history it was hard to maintain multiple strong bonds anyway; long distance communication pre-internet was hard too. There are plenty of modern opportunities for finding friends based on interests: conferences, concerts, sports bars etc. How much of this discussion is a moral panic caused by imprecise notions which by definition cannot be described by hard data?

cjohnson318 · 3 months ago
I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that most men are too insecure to engage with each other meaningfully. This causes them to appear overly competitive, or uninterested. How many times have you spoken to another man that can't stop trying to one-up you, or cannot be bothered to ask you a single question? That's the majority of my interactions with other men.
yesfitz · 3 months ago
Is there a common thread between the men you describe beyond their gender?

I haven't experienced what you described since I was socializing with programmers and scientists on the East Coast. Now most of the men I socialize with are artists (at least part time) and IT generalists in the Midwest.

cjohnson318 · 3 months ago
That's difficult to say. Right now, my cohort is mainly other dads at my kids school, so we're all busy and kind of tired. I want to make friends, but it's hard to find people that are (1) available and (2) friendly. Full disclosure, I have insecurities too: I've got zero interest in trying to make friends in a group where I feel like I'll be judged or looked down upon for whatever. I still socialize, and I've learned a lot about socialization from my wife, but yeah, I realize that I've got a chip on my shoulder also.
dennis_jeeves2 · 3 months ago
>How many times have you spoken to another man that can't stop trying to one-up you, or cannot be bothered to ask you a single question? That's the majority of my interactions with other men.

Very true. Statistically men don't care about other men, period. Conversely they care about women or their daughters more than their sons. A lot of it is biological - meaning mean are the dispensable gender. The term 'women and children' is not a coincidence.

blablabla123 · 3 months ago
Yeah, problems are way deeper and would have to be addressed in such a concept. Last year I read a Graphical Novel about it (Seek You) which goes into great detail. Root causes includes dysfunctional TV stereotypes (the lonely hero) among others.
cjohnson318 · 3 months ago
Dysfunctional media is a big one, dysfunctional families, the disintegration of the middle class, the rise of techbro culture where a whole generation suddenly had this expectation that you can and should be as wealthy as a doctor, with a fraction of the training or oversight.
_zaey · 3 months ago
Bouldering (indoor climbing) is the most social sport I’ve tried, and I’d highly recommend going on your own as you will find opportunities to meet new people, and others will talk to you (as long as you’re not wearing headphones!).

Bouldering provides an open space you can move freely in, with no inherent social hierarchy (no tutors, teachers), just people trying varying difficulties of bouldering routes. If someone can do a route you can’t, just ask them for tips, or if someone can’t do a route you can, ask if they want help, or cheer someone on when they do something difficult.

Bouldering provides lots of easy conversation starters, and as with all social situations, going on your own and showing vulnerability will always be endearing to others.

dwaltrip · 3 months ago
Pickleball is another great option. I find open-play pickelball to be even more social than bouldering! It's also cheaper. There are courts everywhere these days!
FirmwareBurner · 3 months ago
I can disagree with this take.

For one, bouldering is not great if you have a fear of heights or maybe some mobility issues due to a previous injury. It's then a massively painful and risky chore and not a pleasurable activity but requires you to be at 100% health physically and mentally in order to do anything beyond kiddy walls. Otherwise you can fall and injure yourself pretty badly. Granted, that's mostly on you, not the sport but still, it's not a universally approachable sport by everyone by any stretch. At least I never gotten to enjoy it no matter how much I forced myself to based on the hype of those around me and the internet.

> with no inherit social hierarchy

Not 100% true. This might be your conscious way of wanting to see things, but in reality, all sports especially in male groups are inherently competitive where a clear hierarchy gets formed which leads to either admiration or repulsion based on abilities and results, even if it's just subconsciously, but it is there and everyone is aware of it even if we choose to ignore it for the sake of equality and inclusion.

IMHO, team sports like football, handball, volleyball, tennis, ping-pong, various martial arts etc are far better for socializing because you actually have to partner with others and play against others, versus solitary like bouldering.

> I’d highly recommend going on your own as you will find opportunities to meet new people, and others will talk to you

I feel like this take is 100% based on regional social customs of where you live, and not on the sport. This might be my experience of the German speaking country I moved to but from the locals, nobody here ever starts making conversation to you randomly. People tend to go with their social group and not interact with strangers, while those who go alone tend to want to be left alone to practice and not get interrupted with small talk by other who are there to make friends.

Just like the gym, it's definitely not a way to make friends here, since people got here to work out, not have conversations with strangers.

sfmz · 3 months ago
It has a built-in gating function. People who are out-of-shape or with injuries will opt-out. Bouldering favors slim people. On the other hand, I think gating functions are necessary to build community. Often gating-functions are accomplished with wealth (gated community, country club), but its more interesting when its some other function.

Maybe good idea for a meetup might be to solve some tech challenge, idk. Solve X get invited to some hacker house/space maybe? (i'm saying this as a person who probably wouldn't solve it)

_zaey · 3 months ago
Sorry to hear that’s your experience.

I’m staying with my parents this week and I visited the local bouldering gym alone on Wednesday and last night.

On Wednesday I met someone called Nelly, and hung out with them for the session.

Yesterday I bumped into Nelly with their friends Maddie and Kate and climbed with them.

I’m leaving on Sunday so I gave one of them my number and they messaged me to say it was great fun climbing together.

Now we might be climbing again this weekend.

Granted, I approached them, but all it took was asking Nelly, “How did you find that route?” and asking them for tips.

The bouldering gym is what you make it, just hang out and don’t assume people will reject you (which can be a difficult headspace to get out of, but exposure therapy will fix that, and the bouldering gym can be that exposure therapy)

jajko · 3 months ago
It brings automatically like-minded folks together into same place, I have to agree. I wouldnt expect spontaneous conversations automatically, at least where I go in Europe thats not the case. But maybe it takes just a polite few words, people in Switzerland are very shy and overly respectful of other's private sphere.

Headphones for any sort of climbing - please dont do that and politely advise others to refrain from use while climbing, thats 1) frowned upon massively in whole community; 2) increases risk of something bad happening; 3) just a bit too arrogant, one doesnt do that in ie restaurant neither

profsummergig · 3 months ago
Is it usually done in natural settings outdoors, or in a sort of gym, indoors?
_zaey · 3 months ago
In my experience people will start indoors and build experience before heading outdoors.

You could ask people in the bouldering gym whether they have any experience with outdoor bouldering and people will start sharing their favourite spots nearby, and might even invite you along.

Outdoors requires:

- your own climbing shoes

- someone with a bouldering mat

Whereas you will hire shoes from the bouldering gym as a beginner

You won’t need to bring anything to the bouldering gym other than a water bottle and some loose fit clothing

tonightstoast · 3 months ago
Both! Usually outdoor bouldering is a bit more of an undertaking to get into since you’ll have to travel and bring matts & additional gear. But look up “climbing gym” on google and you should be able to find some if you’re in a reasonably sized metro. Not sure if you’re in the USA but the southwest has a ton of great outdoor bouldering.
sigmoid10 · 3 months ago
It ranges from high tech indoor and outdoor gyms with customisable holds all the way to a random rock somewhere in the middle of nature where local guys put a few mats under. If you start going to a gym you'll naturally learn about all the other places very quickly.
1oooqooq · 3 months ago
it's like a daycare play space for adults. hopefully with less biting incidents.
solraph · 3 months ago
I like the idea in general principle - but if I lived in the right city/country, and didn't already have something similar, my first thought based on the landing page pictures would be;

"This is only for white guys in their twenties."

I don't know if that's intentional, but if I was in the location target market, I'd close the tab at that point.

sandspar · 3 months ago
This comment inadvertently reveals why clubs like this can't exist: there's always someone counting races and genders in photos. High functioning male social clubs generally have implicit rules, like "straight-acting gay guys are fine but don't make it weird" or "no weird lefties". But you can't have those rules anymore. So "male social clubs" get overrun with board game types who are OK with accepting everyone. Which means high status guys, the kind of guys who are trend setters, tend to stay away.
wkat4242 · 3 months ago
> High functioning male social clubs generally have implicit rules, like "straight acting gay guys are fine but don't make it weird" or "no weird lefties".

I think that whole conformation thing is why they don't work. Nobody wants to hang out with people pretending to be someone else so they fit in. Any social connection you make is then fake too.

> Which means high status guys, the kind of guys who are trend setters, tend to stay away.

The board games types can also be high status trend setters, just not in your circle. That's fine though. Nothing wrong with seeking out people that are like yourself.

But there's plenty of places where you can find what it sounds like you're looking for. Like sports bars. Won't find the board games types there and not many women either.

rchaud · 3 months ago
But high status guys by definition wouldn't be seen dead in clubs like these to begin with. They are socially successful ladder climbers already, that's part and parcel of being high status.
BlueTemplar · 3 months ago
« board game types » ??
solraph · 3 months ago
I guess it depends if you are after a club with men to help you climb some status ladder, or if you are after a club that helps you make male friends, regardless of where they come from.

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