This is a sad outcome. The Bond franchise is very strong, and that’s in large part to a single coherent vision of who the character is.
Bond is in need of some modernisation perhaps, but that still needs the strong creative control. The bean counters at Amazon aren’t that, and it shows in every Amazon studios production (and in most Netflix productions too), they’re too caught up in the numbers, the marketability, ticking boxes for target audiences, that the content is soulless.
Some modernization but I agree that it is very strong with a single coherent vision of the character. Bond does not and should be a woman, or transgender or any other twist to modernize. It can do that with supporting characters, and in how Bond interacts with them. Making a stark change to the main character would cause too much discontinuity with fans, and people who have know Bond as a specific archetype for a very, very long time.
We should think of new characters to fit modern ideas, not changing old out of simplicity; or latching onto the gravy train.
I doubt that any of the options you've given would have been likely or be any more likely under new management – as you said, that modernisation can happen and is happening already through other characters.
What I could absolutely see happening is a teenage Bond YA fiction style thing, which would dilute the character. Or alternatively, a TV show, which would dilute the brand.
Amazon needs to be broken up. They are a web host, e-commerce giant, consumer electronics company, grocery store, primary care doctor, and movie studio. That is so wildly fucked.
These companies are entering into entirely new markets, destroying the value, giving it away for free, all subsidized by unrelated business unit profit.
One of the core reasons why Hollywood is floundering is because tech giants are doing this.
- there's no secondary market for VHS & DVD anymore. Almost all the money has to be made on opening weekend
- in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining
Netflix & Amazon movies are ultra-low quality; you couldn't pay me to watch it. A quality Hollywood production that was made to entertain instead of persuade can still easily outcompete tech company movies
let them let the customers choose also it allows them to amass substantial capital that can then be spent on R & D that maintains the lead of the US in some areas, as a multinational there is a lot of money coming from other countries that is beneficial to the U.S.. If China is the only country where MegaCorps, then it would be hard for segmented U.S. firms to compete with them
We did. In fact, some of the Biden-era antitrust lawsuits are still active, AFAIK. What happened is that the capital class acted swiftly and firmly to shut down the FTC (and SEC), by brown-nosing Trump[0], so that the federal government couldn't challenge them.
The word "deep state" gets thrown around a lot here, especially by the people who thought Trump was going to stop this bullshit, but it's useful to describe what's going on: the accumulation of informal power structures that render the formal, legitimate one ineffective. Hollywood was part of the last iteration of the deep state; but they are being gradually pushed out of it, both because they are on Trump's enemies list and because tech centralizes power and control far faster than artistic industry does. In other words, Hollywood is no longer useful and is being replaced with something worse.
[0] To be clear, about half the DNC was hoping a judge would block Lina Khan's lawsuits and make her look weak enough to be replaced with a stooge.
I am not the biggest Bond fan so feel free to ignore my opinion, but it seems possible that Amazon is less of a bean counter than a traditional studio? They will throw money at the first production - with the hopes it is a hit. They are not beholden to it being profitable on paper like a studio would be.
But I also realize they took this approach to Lord of the Rings, and it didn't turn out.
This may be true, but Bond hasn't been owned by a traditional studio, it has essentially been owned by a family who have inherited control down a few generations.
Seems to be more than just bean counting. Rings of Power was showered with money, so there are properties Amazon is willing to spend lavish amounts of money on. They also boosted the budget when they took over The Expanse, though there's plenty of disagreement over if that netted a better result or not.
I'm not sure how well it was doing under the Broccoli stewardship to be honest, I think some younger blood was needed. Although a soulless giant company is not what I would have suggested as a replacement.
FWIW, I'm British. I won't disagree that there was a certain cringe to Bond, and the older films have aged quite poorly. But there's nostalgia there still, and it's also worth remembering that in many ways Bond defined the image of worldly/sexy. Bond's cultural impact on Men's fashion for example is huge. The films were influential at the time, even if in hindsight they're a bit simplistic or fantastical and more than a bit misogynistic.
I think the films are also worth more than the sum of their parts. Each one is typically an above average blockbuster style action film, but nothing particularly special. Taken together however, they are worth a lot more because of that continuing thread that has been done so well, and it's that which leads to the cultural significance.
The franchise certainly needs updating, but I think it has evolved over time and can likely continue to do so with that strong creative backing. It depends much less on sex now than it did even 20 years ago, they moved past the gadgets (as "gadgets" became less of a thing, it's hard to have a clever gadget when we all have smartphones in our pockets).
Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage.
LOLWut ?! As of 2023, the James Bond film franchise has grossed over $7 billion globally at the box office. It's the sixth highest grossing film franchise in history. Your opinions of taste aside, Bond was anything but garbage otherwise it would never have lasted as long, or made as much money.
Unlikely, Amazon's already got a long term contract in place with the pinewod group for facilities extending beyond Bond. The actual bond stage is owned by Pinewood and used for lots of different productions however Eon were always given priorty access (again contractually).
You don't really drop contracts like that in the UK, especially right now when theres a shortage of production space due to Amazon, Disney, Netflix, Sky, etc all fighting for access.
The Daniel Craig era was a modern update, though, so those defenders won't really be taking history into account. Not that the Broccolis never missed, but they were capable of moving with the times, and they did not blindly follow the money.
Amazon/Disney/Netflix/HBO move with the times by following the money, and by milking the reputation of respected brands and celebrities until they're dried out husks.
> and by milking the reputation of respected brands and celebrities until they're dried out husks.
Seems reasonable to me. The big question is why other creators are not working on creating new brands. There are more heroes, superheroes, super villains created nowadays. This is not some utility services which has to be mature, tried and tested even if old and boring that must remain in use.
Yeah, I don't think people realize how many times the franchise has been updated over the years. I'm conservatively counting five times (marked with asterisks) but I think the number could be as high as seven. And then you've got to consider that they've tried to finish the character unsuccessfully even before No Time To Die with Never Say Never Again.
Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek .... it feels like everything eventually devolves and runs into people or a situation where it doesn't seem like anyone has creative control / defined vision, and horrific writing and such decisions.
Interesting timing, considering that the overwhelming discussion since the last film has been will Bond be gay/non-white/non-male etc. Under Broccoli I think they could have pulled this off, under Amazon (see: LOTR) absolutely not. BUT now it seems Amazon may no longer feel pressure to have "DEI Bond". If I had to predict I'm guessing the future of Bond is:
1. Bad, see: LOTR, WOT
2. MCU/StarWars-ified (expect dozens of spin-offs, sequels, prequels, etc)
3. A-list action actors, (Tom Hardy? Jason Statham?)
4. Cringe, Amazon does not have an ounce of taste, never has, so Bond will drive a Mustang, he'll shoot a Glock or S&W, his clothes will look like Zara, and he'll be funny in the wrong ways (more Tony Stark, less Sean Connery)
God I wish we had just gotten a Idris Elba bond movie.
Same, I was finishing my first read through as the show cane out. So disappointed… Lots of really major changes for very little reason.
In the last episode of S2 Loial gets stabbed with the ruby hilted dagger, which is typically extremely lethal.
Another great community and series are the cosmere books by Brandon Sanderson, who finished the last few WoT after Robert Jordan passed away. Mistborn and The Stormlight Archives are both amazing. Also, 9000 pages and over 3 million words for all of the cosmere books, so you will be reading for a bit!
I was disappointed when Amazon canceled their plans to bring the first Culture novel, Consider Phlebas, to TV. After seeing the page-to-screen translation of Wheel of Time I think that it was just as well.
Before the first 6 seasons of GoT, pretty much every book to screen SF/Fantasy adaption was awful. An okay-ish adaptation was something to celebrate. WoT and Rings of Power were okay-ish.
Idk about you but I have been a WoT since I discovered them in middle school, read every book multiple times, audiobooks etc. Similar if a bit less for rings of power, they absolutely butchered them in the name of some weird political agenda
I'd nominate The Leftovers as the most successful fantasy adaptation for TV, even if it wasn't the type of fantasy that has dragons and swords. Unlike Game of Thrones it was consistently good to the end.
Bond movies are in a perpetual cycle of reinvention, trying to update the franchise and keep it relevant. I'm not sure it's wholly succeeded in that. They've certainly done the sequel thing of adding more tech, more action, more globetrotting, higher stakes, more of everything. Bigger, but better? Of the Craig movies, by far the best was Casino Royale, because of how it stripped things back to basics. At least, compared to the lunacy of the previous film (an invisible car, really?).
I'd love for an Amazon Bond reboot to be a 1960s period piece. Keep the tech light, make him a spy again, put him in some tense situations. It could work!
This is a story that will definitely be told in family office conferences for a long time: one family has basically overseen bond since the beginning of the films I believe. Sad end.
Readit News
Bond is in need of some modernisation perhaps, but that still needs the strong creative control. The bean counters at Amazon aren’t that, and it shows in every Amazon studios production (and in most Netflix productions too), they’re too caught up in the numbers, the marketability, ticking boxes for target audiences, that the content is soulless.
I hope Bond survives.
We should think of new characters to fit modern ideas, not changing old out of simplicity; or latching onto the gravy train.
What I could absolutely see happening is a teenage Bond YA fiction style thing, which would dilute the character. Or alternatively, a TV show, which would dilute the brand.
These companies are entering into entirely new markets, destroying the value, giving it away for free, all subsidized by unrelated business unit profit.
One of the core reasons why Hollywood is floundering is because tech giants are doing this.
Why don't we do trust busting anymore?
- there's no secondary market for VHS & DVD anymore. Almost all the money has to be made on opening weekend
- in recent years, content has become preachy instead of focusing on being entertaining
Netflix & Amazon movies are ultra-low quality; you couldn't pay me to watch it. A quality Hollywood production that was made to entertain instead of persuade can still easily outcompete tech company movies
The word "deep state" gets thrown around a lot here, especially by the people who thought Trump was going to stop this bullshit, but it's useful to describe what's going on: the accumulation of informal power structures that render the formal, legitimate one ineffective. Hollywood was part of the last iteration of the deep state; but they are being gradually pushed out of it, both because they are on Trump's enemies list and because tech centralizes power and control far faster than artistic industry does. In other words, Hollywood is no longer useful and is being replaced with something worse.
[0] To be clear, about half the DNC was hoping a judge would block Lina Khan's lawsuits and make her look weak enough to be replaced with a stooge.
But I also realize they took this approach to Lord of the Rings, and it didn't turn out.
I'm not sure how well it was doing under the Broccoli stewardship to be honest, I think some younger blood was needed. Although a soulless giant company is not what I would have suggested as a replacement.
Even back in the Broccoli years, Bond was garbage. The movie bond was a government assassin who we all pretended wasn't. Because sex. Ridiculous!
To Americans he also seemed smart and worldly. Because he had a British accent. Which sexy women liked. True, yet also ridiculous!
Can AMZN bury this relic faster than Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny was reburied? Rate to find out!
I think the films are also worth more than the sum of their parts. Each one is typically an above average blockbuster style action film, but nothing particularly special. Taken together however, they are worth a lot more because of that continuing thread that has been done so well, and it's that which leads to the cultural significance.
The franchise certainly needs updating, but I think it has evolved over time and can likely continue to do so with that strong creative backing. It depends much less on sex now than it did even 20 years ago, they moved past the gadgets (as "gadgets" became less of a thing, it's hard to have a clever gadget when we all have smartphones in our pockets).
LOLWut ?! As of 2023, the James Bond film franchise has grossed over $7 billion globally at the box office. It's the sixth highest grossing film franchise in history. Your opinions of taste aside, Bond was anything but garbage otherwise it would never have lasted as long, or made as much money.
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond
You don't really drop contracts like that in the UK, especially right now when theres a shortage of production space due to Amazon, Disney, Netflix, Sky, etc all fighting for access.
? Bond died in last movie.
It's almost like there are different iterations of the character and will be again.
Dead Comment
Defenders will say Bond deserves a modern update beyond the Daniel Craig era.
But if I'm reading the tea leaves from Lord of the Rings, I am not bullish on Amazon's MCU-ification of the Bond franchise.
Amazon/Disney/Netflix/HBO move with the times by following the money, and by milking the reputation of respected brands and celebrities until they're dried out husks.
Seems reasonable to me. The big question is why other creators are not working on creating new brands. There are more heroes, superheroes, super villains created nowadays. This is not some utility services which has to be mature, tried and tested even if old and boring that must remain in use.
- Dr. No
- From Russia with Love
- Goldfinger
- Thunderball
- You Only Live Twice
*- On Her Majesty's Secret Service
- Diamonds Are Forever
*
- Live and Let Die- The Man with the Golden Gun
- The Spy Who Loved Me
- Moonraker
- For Your Eyes Only
*- Never Say Never Again
- Octopussy
- A View to a Kill
*
- The Living Daylights- Licence to Kill
*- GoldenEye
- Tomorrow Never Dies
- The World Is Not Enough
- Die Another Day
*
- Casino Royale- Quantum of Solace
- Skyfall
- Spectre
- No Time to Die
Deleted Comment
1. Bad, see: LOTR, WOT
2. MCU/StarWars-ified (expect dozens of spin-offs, sequels, prequels, etc)
3. A-list action actors, (Tom Hardy? Jason Statham?)
4. Cringe, Amazon does not have an ounce of taste, never has, so Bond will drive a Mustang, he'll shoot a Glock or S&W, his clothes will look like Zara, and he'll be funny in the wrong ways (more Tony Stark, less Sean Connery)
God I wish we had just gotten a Idris Elba bond movie.
The community around WoT was easily the kindest, most welcoming, helpful that I've found around any book series (maybe any work of fiction).
Sad to see they didn't get the TV series they deserved.
In the last episode of S2 Loial gets stabbed with the ruby hilted dagger, which is typically extremely lethal.
Another great community and series are the cosmere books by Brandon Sanderson, who finished the last few WoT after Robert Jordan passed away. Mistborn and The Stormlight Archives are both amazing. Also, 9000 pages and over 3 million words for all of the cosmere books, so you will be reading for a bit!
I'd love for an Amazon Bond reboot to be a 1960s period piece. Keep the tech light, make him a spy again, put him in some tense situations. It could work!
https://www.wsj.com/business/media/james-bond-movies-amazon-...
Amazon has apparently solved the problem by pushing her out.
Nothing lasts forever.