We have a Volkswagen e-Up, and I'm convinced it's the perfect EV. It's small and light(about 1000kg total), but not so small to be impractical - it fits a full size baby seat and a full size pram, I've done Costco and DIY store runs with it, it carried planks of wood and bags of soil....like any normal car would. Yes the 150 mile range is not going to win any contests, but you know what - I've literally never been close to running out. I can do the school run in the morning, commute to work, go shopping, go see friends, and still only need to charge it every few days at most - and when I do i just plug it in at home and it charges overnight, ready and fully charged by the morning. And it does 5-6 miles per kWh which is insane, it beats even the most optimistic numbers on a Tesla. And full charge costs me £2.5 at home - about the same as two litres of petrol.
Would I do a cross country trip in one of these? Obviously not(although you could, it does support CCS rapid charging), but if I had to....I'd just rent a different car to do that in for few days? Seriously the need for that comes up maybe twice a year for me - so why would I need a massive 2.5 tonne EV with a 100kWh battery , like every other manufacturer seems to be so keen on delivering as their EV solution?
Obviously, before someone replies "well this wouldn't work for me" - yes I know. But I'd wager that for an awful lot of people this exact kind of car would work perfectly fine.
That is still a normal car, although very compact. Plus at 1000kg it is still more heavy than most of the petrol city cars we have in Europe.
The article is about smaller cars, that are sometimes not even 'cars' when it comes to regulation. We are speaking of Citroen Ami, Renault Twizzy, Microlino ...
EVs around 500kg.
> That is still a normal car, although very compact
We have a VW Up, but it's the ICE (petrol) version. It's a great car for up to four people. EDIT: (just been out and checked the paperwork, it weighs in at ~900kg)
It's around four years old and we've done around 36k miles. It cost just under $11k new, everything included (although they're now $15k and you'd better be quick, VW are discontinuing them this year). The e-Up has already been discontinued.
It's a fantastic car, it's easy to park, easy to drive, really economical.
We looked at the e-Up, but it was significantly more than twice as expensive compared to the petrol version, with a massively reduced range.
I'd love to have had enough "spare money" to have picked the e-Up instead of the ICE version, but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option.
Yeah I'm aware, sorry - I just meant to say that it presents a compelling EV alternative to 2 tonne+ EVs that seem to be the predominant option now, because everyone expects 300 miles of range from their car even if they practically never need it.
(Also yes, petrol city cars are lighter, but not that much lighter - a Citroen C1 clocks in at 815kg for example)
The emergence of decent car sharing networks makes it even more cost-effective.
Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost?
> Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost?
I just rented a vehicle today (for next week, flying somewhere and need a car while I am there).
The cost to rent the cheapest car on offer is less than half the cost to rent a stationwagon.
A 3 day rental (after I shopped around at 5 different providers at the airport) with limited mileage is about the same as the monthly repayment of that same vehicle, and the insurance excess is not borne by the rental company if I get into an accident or the car is stolen.
It most definitely is not 1/20th the annual cost of the vehicle[1], if you need to go away for the weekend.
[1] The cost is much greater if you want to travel a large distance, because unlimited miles almost doubles the cost.
Other people, and a lot more of them than you might think, need that range many times a year. People with elderly parents in a town 400 miles away, for instance. People with children, ditto. People who travel for work in their own vehicle.
I very much doubt the 30 seconds. Maybe booking it, but 30 seconds to driving away? Never.
I live and work in the same town. I have a 5 minute drive. Our town has basically everything we need. I'd drive the shit out of a car like this. It wouldn't matter if it has range. We'll probably have 2 cars until the kids are out of the house, so even if one of them is electric that's better than nothing.
1000 kg is still too heavy. Think of body frame for Smart Fourtwo vehicle but with 4 seats and made from bonded aluminium. Add plastic panels and you get a lighter vehicle.
I hope sizes of cars will be more regulated or heavily taxed. Driving a huge tanks into the city center with lots of pedestrians should be avoided. And the cars growing wider and longer also means the space allocated for them (already too much!) is getting too small. Like many cars can no longer fit the street side parking where I live, and thus use half a meter of the bicycle lane..
I love the Japanese Kei-car concept[0]. The government mandates maximum external dimensions and engine capacity for cars and maufacturers adapt.
On the other hand they are taxed less and thus a lot cheaper than "normal" cars.
And when the car size is exactly known, cities can be designed to match. Every parking space is the correct size and streets are just wide enough, but not more.
My "half a meter" was of course a hyperbole. But I also think the wider and more expensive cars make people vary of parking too close to the curb, hence they have some margin on all sides.
> I hope sizes of cars will be more regulated or heavily taxed.
This is a good path forward IMO. I generally believe "pure consumption" - owned but almost never used assets like extra rooms in houses or seats in cars - should be taxed. That's not even a socialist/authoritarian idea; justification can be found even on the free-market side where "unproductive use" or "stranded resources" might be the more common terms. Some of the proceeds could even be earmarked to provide transportation to those such as the disabled or elderly who can't "just bike" (many people's only idea in this space unfortunately) or take public transportation easily. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it help move us forward to a more sustainable future? Still yes.
Were they too small 10 years ago? I went to a car show and compared our current “mid sized” SUV to its replacement. It grew 7 inches longer and several inches wider and taller. It’s bigger and smaller cousins did the same. So “mid sized” is now “full”, and “full” is now “extra large”.
Manufactures are also dropping their smallest cars, so effectively all cars are getting continually bigger and as a consumer it’s gradual you don’t realize it until the car doesn’t fit into the garage any more.
You're aware that people had families before oversized SUVs were a thing...?
We used to go on long trips with a family of 5 in normal sized cars regularly. Of course I would never do that today. Like many families we don't have a car and rent as needed. Long trips with kids are just infinitely much better by train.
Family of 4 here with a Honda Jazz (aka Honda Fit in the US). Doing fine. Grew up in the states as a family of four and for most of my youth we had a Honda Accord - the early 90's ones that were smaller than a Civic is now IIRC.
But for the record, when biking to work today I biked for some time behind a father on a cargo bike with two kids seated in the trunk. We zoomed past the traffic on the main road, that of course was at a stand still. :)
I think electric stand up scooters have a strong future. They are extremely convenient in that they can easily be taken inside offices, in elevators, on public transport, etc which is something you couldn't easily do with bikes. They really boost the usefulness of public transport because you can now quickly get to the nearest stop even if its 1-2km away.
Unfortunately they are illegal by default in much of the world but this seems to be changing.
No form of transport covers literally all cases, it doesn’t make it useless. For the majority of office commuters, not having to pay for parking and being able to reach public transport which would otherwise be too far is a huge plus.
Yes, much of the world doesn't really have any relevant rules, but there are quite a lot of rich countries in which an electric scooter is not allowed on the road because it doesn't fit into any of the allowed categories or conform to the strict rules that govern vehicles, but is not allowed on footpaths either because it is a vehicle (it has wheels).
Ironically, the first time I saw an electric scooter in use, which was a very long time ago, it was in a Swiss railway station, and I think the user had just alighted from a train. (Switzerland has a reputation, perhaps unjustly, for strict rules.)
They are, strictly speaking, illegal in the UK, except for limited pilot schemes. And yes, widely used. They are too beefy to count as a bicycle (like, no pedals etc) but don't meet more stringent criteria for a motorbike (like indicators, side mirrors etc).
I'm less sure, but think they are also illegal in the EU, on the same premise.
> Unfortunately they are illegal by default in much of the world but this seems to be changing.
Well, they are awfully dangerous - with such a tiny wheel radius, even a small pebble can flip the rider over the handlebars, while bicycles wheels are large enough to not flip even on some kerbs.
Given an option between a bicycle and a stand-up scooter, it's a no-brainer to choose the bicycle.
I see a comment I’m not going to engage with, but I have two kids and I had them happily in a Honda Fit and a VW GTI (3 door) when they were little.
I came here to say this is a great idea, I literally took a loss and sold my Volvo XC40 Recharge and went back to an old BMW i3 because the larger vehicles honestly don’t make actual sense (the article clarifies this more than I’m going to bother with here) to me.
We need to stop propelling tanks and start driving vehicles sized to fit the need.
I thought of Aptera when I saw the title. They are planning to start production this year. There's also the potential for daily solar charging as many people park outside. This is kind of the important part because charging infrastructure isn't that good and with more EV's there will be waiting times.
Still, charging 20-40 miles a day in the sun should be good enough for many commutes. And many people work from home a few days a week so the charge time in the sun will be even greater.
I have a big car, and an electric cargo bike, and frankly, the latter covers a lot of my use cases. It weighs a lot for a bike, around 30-40kg, but carries one adult and two children plus some bags.
I can imagine adding 50-100kg to it, making it 4 wheels, fully enclosed lightweight roof, max speed of 20-30 kph and fully electric, and covering a lot of bike use cases, plus weatherproofing. It's not like a lightweight car, it's like an extremely beefy bike.
The thing that would be missing is road infrastructure and laws. The bike works because it can go everywhere, and things I need are within cycling distance. I wouldn't happily "ride" the beefed-up version on a public road with cars though.
there are some great concepts (hopper mobility for example) but the infrastructure has to be planned accordingly, even in the us, there are some nice liveable "golf cart" communities. We also use our ebikes for everything in at least a 10km radius, in every weather... the car is only used for long distance trips :)
It's kind of sad how naive, idealistic young people put their energy into this sort of stuff without first figuring out how to get people to want smaller, lighter, plainer things.
It's kind of step 3 of an Underpants Gnomes-like business plan, and the missing step 2 is the hard one.
Cue quote about "if you want ships built, teach people to long for the immensity of the open ocean".
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Would I do a cross country trip in one of these? Obviously not(although you could, it does support CCS rapid charging), but if I had to....I'd just rent a different car to do that in for few days? Seriously the need for that comes up maybe twice a year for me - so why would I need a massive 2.5 tonne EV with a 100kWh battery , like every other manufacturer seems to be so keen on delivering as their EV solution?
Obviously, before someone replies "well this wouldn't work for me" - yes I know. But I'd wager that for an awful lot of people this exact kind of car would work perfectly fine.
We have a VW Up, but it's the ICE (petrol) version. It's a great car for up to four people. EDIT: (just been out and checked the paperwork, it weighs in at ~900kg)
It's around four years old and we've done around 36k miles. It cost just under $11k new, everything included (although they're now $15k and you'd better be quick, VW are discontinuing them this year). The e-Up has already been discontinued.
It's a fantastic car, it's easy to park, easy to drive, really economical. We looked at the e-Up, but it was significantly more than twice as expensive compared to the petrol version, with a massively reduced range.
I'd love to have had enough "spare money" to have picked the e-Up instead of the ICE version, but spending an additional $25k to get a mostly inferior vehicle just wasn't an option.
Where do we go from here?
(Also yes, petrol city cars are lighter, but not that much lighter - a Citroen C1 clocks in at 815kg for example)
Why would I own a 100kWh car, when I only need that range 2x per year, and I could rent that bigger car with my smartphone in 30 secs, for 1/20th of the annual cost?
I just rented a vehicle today (for next week, flying somewhere and need a car while I am there).
The cost to rent the cheapest car on offer is less than half the cost to rent a stationwagon.
A 3 day rental (after I shopped around at 5 different providers at the airport) with limited mileage is about the same as the monthly repayment of that same vehicle, and the insurance excess is not borne by the rental company if I get into an accident or the car is stolen.
It most definitely is not 1/20th the annual cost of the vehicle[1], if you need to go away for the weekend.
[1] The cost is much greater if you want to travel a large distance, because unlimited miles almost doubles the cost.
Other people, and a lot more of them than you might think, need that range many times a year. People with elderly parents in a town 400 miles away, for instance. People with children, ditto. People who travel for work in their own vehicle.
I very much doubt the 30 seconds. Maybe booking it, but 30 seconds to driving away? Never.
On the other hand they are taxed less and thus a lot cheaper than "normal" cars.
And when the car size is exactly known, cities can be designed to match. Every parking space is the correct size and streets are just wide enough, but not more.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car
What do you mean by "many"? I was under the (maybe wrong) impression that small cars are more popular in Europe than large cars.
And, assuming parallel parking bays, it would take a really large car to half a meter wider than a compact car.
I welcome corrections to the above statements :-)
My "half a meter" was of course a hyperbole. But I also think the wider and more expensive cars make people vary of parking too close to the curb, hence they have some margin on all sides.
Deleted Comment
This is a good path forward IMO. I generally believe "pure consumption" - owned but almost never used assets like extra rooms in houses or seats in cars - should be taxed. That's not even a socialist/authoritarian idea; justification can be found even on the free-market side where "unproductive use" or "stranded resources" might be the more common terms. Some of the proceeds could even be earmarked to provide transportation to those such as the disabled or elderly who can't "just bike" (many people's only idea in this space unfortunately) or take public transportation easily. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it help move us forward to a more sustainable future? Still yes.
Manufactures are also dropping their smallest cars, so effectively all cars are getting continually bigger and as a consumer it’s gradual you don’t realize it until the car doesn’t fit into the garage any more.
We used to go on long trips with a family of 5 in normal sized cars regularly. Of course I would never do that today. Like many families we don't have a car and rent as needed. Long trips with kids are just infinitely much better by train.
But for the record, when biking to work today I biked for some time behind a father on a cargo bike with two kids seated in the trunk. We zoomed past the traffic on the main road, that of course was at a stand still. :)
The rest of the world can fit 4 people, a dog and their stuff in a normal sedan or station wagon.
Americans need a TRUCK to get groceries.
> You have no idea how small cars are for even a short trip with a family of 4.
You think that they grew up in family of 2?
Unfortunately they are illegal by default in much of the world but this seems to be changing.
Electric cabin scooters with removable batteries cover way more what cars offer today in an urban environment. Something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_motorcycle or that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw
You are way off base here, considering that there must be at least 1000 times more electric scooters than electric cars sold in much of the world.
Ironically, the first time I saw an electric scooter in use, which was a very long time ago, it was in a Swiss railway station, and I think the user had just alighted from a train. (Switzerland has a reputation, perhaps unjustly, for strict rules.)
[0] https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-tra...
I'm less sure, but think they are also illegal in the EU, on the same premise.
Well, they are awfully dangerous - with such a tiny wheel radius, even a small pebble can flip the rider over the handlebars, while bicycles wheels are large enough to not flip even on some kerbs.
Given an option between a bicycle and a stand-up scooter, it's a no-brainer to choose the bicycle.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/e-scooters-banned-from-the...
Deleted Comment
I came here to say this is a great idea, I literally took a loss and sold my Volvo XC40 Recharge and went back to an old BMW i3 because the larger vehicles honestly don’t make actual sense (the article clarifies this more than I’m going to bother with here) to me.
We need to stop propelling tanks and start driving vehicles sized to fit the need.
Yes, a Fit is fine with two polite and compliant children. Try three and a dog, and behavioral issues.
Still, charging 20-40 miles a day in the sun should be good enough for many commutes. And many people work from home a few days a week so the charge time in the sun will be even greater.
https://gaiasolar.en.made-in-china.com/product/cXDJSvIyZLUY/...
I can imagine adding 50-100kg to it, making it 4 wheels, fully enclosed lightweight roof, max speed of 20-30 kph and fully electric, and covering a lot of bike use cases, plus weatherproofing. It's not like a lightweight car, it's like an extremely beefy bike.
The thing that would be missing is road infrastructure and laws. The bike works because it can go everywhere, and things I need are within cycling distance. I wouldn't happily "ride" the beefed-up version on a public road with cars though.
It's kind of step 3 of an Underpants Gnomes-like business plan, and the missing step 2 is the hard one.
Cue quote about "if you want ships built, teach people to long for the immensity of the open ocean".