This is something people often forget about with laptops. Between dust buildup and thermal paste degradation, performance will always slow over time due to rampant thermals. Even tech-savvy people often seem to think their laptop is simply “slowing down” and “too old” when the solution is often as simple as a can of compressed air.
I’d really recommend doing the dust cleanup every year or so. It’s usually easy enough to remove the bottom cover of any laptop without particularly special screwdrivers.
Desktops (especially the PCs with the case Windows) are a bit easier to understand because you’ll see the clogged intakes and dust buildup much more readily.
One thing I like about mechanical keyboards is that the keys can be removed making cleaning much easier. Six months is a better timeline for keyboard cleaning, these things get _nasty_ especially if you have pets.
> It’s usually easy enough to remove the bottom cover of any laptop without particularly special screwdrivers.
"particularly special"? The screwdrivers needed to open up a Macbook are special enough that I've never seen them used for any other object. So are you just glad that Apple didn't decide to create a new screwdriver standard for each Macbook model? :)
BTW, one of the most useful tools I've found for working on arbitrary modern electronics (after a basic set of ordinary screwdrivers and jewelers' drivers, a needlenose pliers, and some kind of spudger) is a $10-$20 set of as many different security screw bits as you can get. IME, it pays for itself the first time you need one of the bits, and I wish I'd bought a bigger set the first time.
I'm not sure Apple is representative of the category, although it could just be that the GP only has a narrow range of experience with laptops. A generous interpretation would exclude from "particular special" anything which is standard and not bespoke, even if it is less common. In any case, the bits are readily available.
Currently $18. I haven't come across a device for which this kit didn't have a bit and the driver feels good in the hand. The outer case is hard plastic, but the inner "lining" is soft plastic, unfortunately. I wouldn't mind a similar kit with a better case, or just a carrier that will handle this kit neatly if anyone has suggestions.
>So are you just glad that Apple didn't decide to create a new screwdriver standard for each Macbook model? :)
Compared to Microsoft? They created a laptop that was impossible to open at all without destroying it.
>According to iFixit, the Surface Laptop isn’t repairable at all. In fact, it got a 0 out of 10 for repairability and was labeled a “glue-filled monstrosity.” The lowest scores previously were a 1 out of 10 for all previous iterations of the Surface Pro
It’s clear that Microsoft never intended for the Surface Laptop to be repaired because it’s a completely sealed device. There aren’t even any screws to take out, so iFixit had to slice the fabric cover open to peel it away from the metal chassis. That’s never going back together. The inner metal shield is also devoid of screws, relying instead upon spot welds and glue. Again, this is probably not going to be reassembled.
They make screwdriver kits specifically for working on electronics and many of them include an Apple-style head. It's annoying that you need to buy one, but they aren't hard to find.
Another point: dead battery completely tanks permance and makes macbook unusable. Could only turn on with charger. Had some 10+ years old macbook - cpu was throttled to some 500+ mhz (with charger attached)
Very true. I had a Toshiba laptop that was simply on for the better part of its 8-10 year lifespan, with the result that it overheated a few times due to clogged fans and it was never the same since. Even after I thoroughly blew out the vents, the thermal paste probably spread a bit, and the ambient temperature was always still way above what it should be.
I finally let it die over Christmas. Or rather, I planned to power it up one last time, get fully updated on Windows 7, and then power it down forever and yank the HDD out to put in an enclosure. Of course, it chose to die in the middle of updates. Feh.
On the topic of mechanical keyboards, when I was considering cleaning mine, I was surprised to read that a vacuum cleaner is the way to go, and compressed air (which I was about to use) is to be avoided "at all costs"!
My flatmate tried to "compressed air" his laptop once using his lab's compressor. Didn't turn the laptop off. Only two fan blades survived.
We glued the other blades back on to tide him over until a replacement arrived, but each day one or two would break off and we'd have to give the laptop a good shake to expel them.
...it's often difficult to know how precise one must be when advising flatmates about compressed air.
Are there any thermal paste that doesn't degrade? Or minimal degrade within 5 years. We can fix dust with cleaning, we can get to a point where our computing needs could be done fanless ( Current iPad Pro ). But what about thermal paste degradation?
Once you open your notebook for cleaning you can remove the heatpipies and reapply thermal paste. Of course, you need to throughly clean the old paste, and need to take extra care (wrt a desktop).
My 3yo notebook could be needing such a treatment. OTOH, I could just buy a new one notebook since there are some interesting things happening in mobile space this year (Renoir and Tiger Lake).
A vacuum cleaner or dust blower will also pull more dust particles from the air and throw at your electronics. A can however is supposed to be clean air.
Is there any truth to the rumors I’ve heard that these cans of compressed air expel things that are detrimental to health (not just nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide)
> [1,1-Difluoroethane, or DFE] is also used as a propellant for aerosol sprays and in gas duster products.
> Because of inhalant abuse, a bitterant is added to some brands; however even this measure is not legally required and has not prevented widespread use of this product as a drug.
> In a DuPont study, rats were exposed to up to 25,000 ppm (67,485 mg m−3) for six hours daily, five days a week for two years. This has become the no-observed-adverse-effect level for this substance. Prolonged exposure to 1,1-difluoroethane has been linked in humans to the development of coronary disease and angina.[12]
So note #1: swollen batteries are not a normal state of the battery. This is a sign of a defect and battery that is swollen is a safety hazard and should definitely be immediately replaced. Do not throw batteries in a garbage can. I don't know how it is done in US, here in Poland most large shops take used batteries for proper disposal.
Note #2: every breathing computer keeps accumulating dust and requires cleaning every couple of months of years. It is worth it if only to keep the noise down.
Note #3: it is not safe to vacuum the laptop as it can cause static discharge. Technically, even just waving a charged object over a piece of conductor can induce a current and damage susceptible component. The damage might not be immediately apparent and may cause various types of malfunctions. If you have no other way of doing it at the very least ensure it is done in humid environment (over 70% humidity but the more humid the better).
I wonder if some aluminium foil around the vacuum cleaner's tube, connected to a wire through to ground would be a cheap alternative.
That said, I have heard that ESD isn't nearly as big an issue as it's made out to be, particularly the idea of slow damage/damage build-up. I don't know if the ESD thing is akin to an old wives tale with a kernel of truth surrounded in increasing layers of falsehoods; or perhaps something that was once true and is no longer, but persists in the collective memory. On the other hand maybe there's some solid evidence for it. Anyone have any evidence beyond anecdotes?
I had an MBP whose battery swelled up so large that it was pusuhing the Touchpad out of its seat. I was pretty alarmed when I found the cause, worried the thing might blow up on me. But from what I read at the time, it actually is the (or, at least, a) normal progression of the battery.
It is normal aging progression of a battery that is not compressed inside a rigid container. In electric vehicles, a constant and firm compression over the entire face of the cell, stops this from occurring [1]. It does not look like a compression plate was incorporated into the design.
Source: design engineer for EV company.
1: The compression is most commonly about 70kPa, but varies by manufacturer recommendations. Some manufacturers lately have started to recommend not to compress their cells because they have solved the swelling in other ways.
So how am I supposed to clean my laptop if not with a vacuuum? I bought a nice Alienware with a 5 year premium onsite warranty. We have dogs and open windows.
Think about your hand and PCBs as two plates of highly charged capacitor (say couple kV). When the discharge happens it will hit a random component or trace. A lot will depend on what the component or trace is. If the trace is data path between some ICs it is likely going to destroy either of them because it has no other way to flow to equalize with the rest of PCB than through one of the chips at the end of datapath.
I could be mistaken but I do believe you can throw a properly discharged lithium polymer battery in the trash, as there is nothing toxic in them. I don't think many laptops use LiPo though.
Most people have no idea what their discharged batteries are composed of or what is safe or not safe to throw with the rest of thrash and so good rule is to tell people to treat ALL batteries the same way.
I don’t see many people mentioning the amazing reliability of this laptop.
I’ve had a similar experience with MacBook Pro (7 years, only problem was some keys started going bad).
There was a time you could not keep a laptop 7 years without significant component replacement or just having to replace it because it was no longer able to run modern software due to slower cpu, not enough ram (and not upgradable enough)... basically hardware obsolescence.
Now the components last AND the hardware is still fast enough to be useful after 7 years.
Surely that’s more about to the fact that CPU speeds aren’t doubling every eighteen months anymore? It’s easy to stay relevant when you’re not ten times slower than current hardware after just five years. It’s not like computers are somehow designed to stay useful longer these days, they just do because the world has slowed down around them.
Agreed. My family uses daily a MacBook Pro I bought in a Thanksgiving sale in 2008. My wife is watching a movie on it as I type this.
A few years ago I thought, if I can get this thing to 10 years, that’s a great deal and I’ll be happy to upgrade. Now it seems like maybe I’ll be able to use it forever? I’ve had to replace one battery and one fan in almost 12 years. The DVD drive does not work anymore, but I don’t use DVDs anymore.
Honestly I think security will be the biggest concern long term. It can’t upgrade the OS anymore and while whatever version of OS X it’s on seems very stable (it never crashes), it’s not getting patches anymore from Apple. Something will come along at some point.
I just put 8 GB of RAM and an SSD in a mid-2010 Macbook Pro for a friend. The parts were free, but could be purchased for $100. Perfectly usable machine for web browsing and entertainment. It won't run Catalina, but who cares?
Most of the computers (PCs & laptops) that I've had in the last 25 years lasted about this long, except for phones. I never had an Apple computer though... One Toshiba laptop, I had to replace a fan in that time frame.
I have a similar experience, I'm typing this on my 2013 MacBook Pro, I don't notice any significance performance issue, and all the hardware is still intact, it's really amazing. This was my first Mac, I'll 100% sure buy another one when this one decides to finally retire.
This isn’t usually case. There’s an “inverted bell curve” of failures. You get a lot of early failures then few in the middle of the lifecycle and then rapidly growing failures towards the end. It’s difficult to predict what that curve looks like and it depends on a combination of engineering, supply chain and luck.
You can usually work out where a product is on that lifecycle by looking at the amount of spare parts available on eBay. They are usually stripped down towards the end of the cycle rather than repaired as the rate of repairs is increasing. This is a good time to sell repairs as you have lots of cheap parts and lots of broken things on the market and no appetite for people to buy complete replacements.
Case in point on the bell curve, my 2018 MBA lasted two weeks before it died.
Just wanted to echo this sentiment as well. I just replaced my 15" 2010 Macbook Pro and the thing still runs strong. A battery replacement and SSD upgrade in 2015 really gave it a second life.
It's unfortunate it no longer gets software updates and also is plagued by the GPU Kernel Panic issue. Otherwise, I would keep it longer.
Hoping my new 2020 13" can last at least half as long!
Less so recently. T440 and later are a terrible for reliability. Endless battery, charging problems and dead ports around the 4 years mark or so. In fact my T470 has just decided it doesn’t want to recognise any external batteries. Thankfully it has a few months support left on it or it’d be going in the trash (Logic board failure is common on them).
I’ve just replaced it with an iPad Pro and will use my desktop for everything else.
I find MagSafe itself fine but the cables Apple uses between the charger bodies and the plugs are awful - I keep mine kind of together with sticky tape.
My 2013 had to get the case, touchpad, fans, and keyboard replaced do to a swelling battery. Also needed a second charger as apple cords break so easily. Outside of that, it still works great.
Kind of funny though that we are amazed that our stuff is running for 7 years considering my old Toyota lasted 20.
I think 7 years is probably at the high end. I work in a small company that started about 8 years ago, and most of the MacBooks (mixture of Pro and Air) we bought initially failed after 3 to 5 years for a range of issues (even the "second generation" have had failed units).
It's true - typing this on a 2013 Air - you kind of take it for granted but they work pretty well really. Though I had it open yesterday to replace the battery only to find they'd sent the wrong one for some other similar model, darn it.
I'm still using my 2009 MBP (updated HDD and replaced battery once) without problems. Unfortunately it seem's that I will have to update some time in the future because of missing software support :(
I've had the opposite experience - both my 2008 plastic Macbook and my 2011 Macbook Pro had enough quality issues in their first 3 or so years that I switched to other manufacturers.
A year ago, I opened up the kids’ 2012 MBP because it was overheating with the fan on all the time. (This machine has had a long, hard life, including requiring a new keyboard when a glass of water was poured on it, several hard drive cables, a couple of batteries, several power adaptors, and I forget what else)
I extracted a chunk of lint about 1/2 cm thick and the consistency of felt from the fan intake.
After that, the fan didn’t turn on nearly as often, and thermal management during Minecraft was much better.
Every 6 months or so I clean out the fans on my macbook. I used to take them out entirely, but realized with an old toothbrush and a soft-handed can of compressed air[0] you can do 90% of the job without the headache.
If you don't use a vacuum though the dust just flies out and settles in your house. I usually hold the vacuum near where I think the dust will fly out without touching any components. Never had an ESD problem yet.
Could just dust it outside. Though if you're not personally running into any issues I suppose it doesn't matter. Probably depends on the vacuum and the weatherd
I just replaced my MacBook Late 2013 after similar usage. No repairs, no hiccups or any component failure whatsoever except for a very badly degraded battery - it lasted about 1.5 hours on a full charge at the end. There’s a lot to be said about Apple but honestly I don’t see any other manufacturers that produce laptops that last so insanely long. Hopefully my new one will last as long as well :)
I have a Thinkpad that I purchased in early 2014 that is still going strong except for, as in your case, a degraded battery.
My grandparents used to play Freecell on a very early IBM Thinkpad (manufactured in 1993, I think) that I picked up for free in a garage sale in 2001. This machine lasted well into 2005, and probably still works today.
Highly recommend trying them out. These days you can get equivalent performance to Macbook Pros for maybe 60% of the cost.
This. My main development machine is a Thinkpad T60, manufactured in 2006. Still running strong. For me, it is still a supercomputer. 2x1.8GHz. 4G ram. 1400x1050. Everything I develop on it screams on anything modern. When it breaks I'm planning on moving backward in time to see if there is an older model that I can adapt to, probably without spending a single dollar, just acquiring a thrown away computer.
> I have a Thinkpad that I purchased in early 2014 that is still going strong
Indeed an early 2014 Thinkpad is my main work development box. It's a T540p with the excellent 3K matte screen. Admittedly I use it like a desktop computer, plugging in a keyboard and mouse (and, now, camera), so there's very little wear and tear, but in my mind it's basically still a new computer.
>I have a Thinkpad that I purchased in early 2014 that is still going strong except for, as in your case, a degraded battery.
Fortunately most ThinkPads of this era had removable batteries, so this isn't as big of a deal as it would be for most laptops today. I'm currently using an X230 that I bought off eBay as my main personal laptop; it needed a new battery when I got it, but otherwise works great.
Dell, HP, and IBM produce(d) some really good models, too. Precisions, EliteBooks, ThinkPads. Even some of the mid-tier ones will last quite awhile, and if not quite 7 years, a lot of them are more repairable than an Apple.
I still semi-frequently use a 2007 consumer-grade Dell that served as my only machine for 4.5 years, and as my primary laptop for another 5. It took six years for it to need a repair other than replacing a battery, and even today I get two hours of life from its latest replacement battery, and can swap in the next-oldest for 75-90 minutes more away from a power outlet.
Apple laptops do tend to last a long time, but if my goal were to buy a laptop I could use forever, I'd buy something else that was more repair-friendly instead.
I'm on a 2012 MBP with similar experiences. Every year I think about finally replacing it, but hold off on it because everything still works fine apart from some increased fan noise and reduced battery capacity (which doesn't concern me too much). If you treat your laptop with care it really does last a long time.
At some point I expect I will stop getting MacOS updates which will force me to upgrade to a newer model.
I’m still running my 2010 MBP (it was worth maxing out the config, and I've replaced the optical drive with an SSD), though recently I bought a 2009 Mac Pro for my main machine. The MBP has fallen several feet into a concrete shop floor with only a squished corner in that milled aluminum case, and is on its third or fourth battery (I should stop cheaping out). I did splurge a few years ago on a replacement keyboard when the original's PCB traces started corroding. That's one of the first parts they integrated to the detriment of its repairability.
With a tweak I was able to get Mojave on it, and another tweak to get Xcode to compile for iOS 13 on it. That should do me for a while, until either the video cable exposed through a hinge breaks, or they can’t get the latest iOS to compile on it. But I’m loathe to get a machine that won’t let me keep it alive the next 10 years.
Intel CPUs haven’t advanced that much since this machine's 2.66x4 i7. The video probably hurts more. It points to a future where we can just expect to put some money into maintaining our computing machinery instead of consuming it like it's a service. But given that John Deere has moved this way, I’m not hopeful that computers will go back that way. Support right-to-repair bills!
Another happy mid 2012 MBP owner here. I am happy that I could upgrade the RAM as soon as I bought it to 16GB, and replaced the HDD with SSD after 5 years, and have replaced batteries twice. Running 10.15 without any problems. The screen hinge has loosened, but nothing a screw driver and ifixit couldn't fix.
Back in 2006, all my coworkers bought brand new MacBooks. Within a month, all those MacBooks were in the shop for repairs/parts replacement. I bought a $900 Compaq. Aside from the occasional cleaning, that thing worked for ten years plus.
2006 had a bad run of MacBooks, so this is not an indictment of Apple equipment in general. But Apple equipment is not universally particularly durable, nor is Apple the only vendor to make durable laptops. They've taken a lot of shortcuts recently, and currently they've set the expected service lifetime of a new MB at around four years.
I just replaced the battery on my early 2011 13-inch MacBook Pro. The original battery gave out ages ago and so did the Chinese aftermarket battery. Other than replacing the battery and replacing the old 320 GB 5400 RPM HDD with a Samsung SSD, there's not really been any issues with it.
I was actually surprised how usable the computer still was after all this time, although the thermals suck quite hard. I imagine the 2011 thermal paste is nigh on useless at this point. Granted, I don't use the laptop much these days, but it'd still serve for basic browsing when needed.
Same here! My main change was getting an SSD. If you're in this boat, I highly recommend it. If I wanted to really push it, upgrading to 8GB of RAM would probably make it work extremely well.
It's nice to have things that run well with relatively small changes.
Side note on cleaning Apple products, may be of interest to iPhone users.
My 2017 6S wasn't charging properly. Charge would start, then a few minutes later, sometimes less, it would stop. I found that many times, if I inserted the plug with a bit more force, it would start charging, but later, it would stop. As is common the cable was frayed near the plug, so I replaced the cable. The situation didn't change.
I was at the point of deciding to replace the iPhone, since it was getting dated anyway, when my daughter suggested I clean the plug receptor.... the light bulb went on.
I grabbed a toothpick and started pulling out lint. Like your bellybutton lint. There was a lot of lint. It had become packed into the base of the receptor sufficiently to prevent the plug from making the contacts.
I had carried it in my pocket for 3 years, it likely gathered a few specks of lint each time I put it in there, and then I compacted the lint when I plugged it in next.
I'm on a maxed out 2013 Macbook Pro and I will fight tooth and nail to keep this laptop functioning for as long as possible. It has a decent keyboard, still powerful processor (2.3 GHz Intel Core i7), 16GB RAM, dual GPU. and MagSafe!!! Beloved MagSafe why on earth did they kill you I will never understand..
I had the Apple store replace the screen and battery about a year ago. The screen was suffering from the anti-reflective coating (1) recall, but I missed the repair program window. In every customer support conversation I had leading up to the repair, they would hint at "consumer protection law". This was a clue that if I then said "CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW" they would be forced to do the recall for free even though it was out of date. They ended up giving me the screen and battery for free.
Apple Store failed to identify and fix one issue that plagued me though, which was spontaneous black screen and poweroffs, especially when running on battery below 80%. It seemed like a power issue, or heat issue. I lived with it for two years, lugging a power brick around whenever I moved spots. With the Apple Stores closed due to covid, I contacted a local third party mac repair person. They said they've seen this before, it's a CPU power issue, and if you run a small script to keep the CPU out of really-low-power state it will stop happening (2). And they were right! So if you're experiencing this annoying problem as well, try this python script:
from time import sleep
import os
while True:
sleep(0.0002)
You may have to tweak the sleep value - higher values will let your CPU relax more but may trigger the power issue. Lower values will increase the CPU load but decrease the chance that the CPU hits this condition.
I've been running this script for 2 weeks now and no freezes. It generates about 6-8% CPU load, so obviously my battery time is suffering, but the alternative (random freezes all day) was so annoying that I'm okay living with this.
I'm curious if this Thunderbolt driver issue is what you've experienced (when the CPU load gets too low, something weird happens with the electrical system).
I work in metal fabrication, so the MagSafe2 constantly attracted tiny metal particles that follow me around.
I ended up replacing the DC in board, $25 part, then two weeks later it started behaving weird, pulled it apart again and reseated all the cables etc but it completely gave up.
Oh well, 7 solid years at AU$2000 end up costing less than $6 a week.
I’m now split between a new MacBook Air, or a Lenovo or HP with similar specs and screen resolution.
I have some Windows software I’ve paid for, but maybe I just run that in a Windows VM on the Mac..... hmmmm
There are 3rd party replacements for USB-C MagSafe connectors if you do ever need to upgrade. Don't know if they get the sweet spot for retention force that the old MagSafe connector did but I have seen some co-workers use it without issue.
Hi,
Can you elaborate on what was happening to your machine regarding 'which was spontaneous black screen and poweroffs'?
My late-2013 Macbook Pro has recently started similar behavior. Somewhat randomly the screen will go black, sit like that for a while, then fans speed up for maybe 10 seconds then it eventually turns off. This whole cycle is something like 20 seconds.
Is this similar to what you observed which was fixed in your case by the script?
I'm in the exact situation - same MacBook, same goal to keep it running, & same screwup missing the reflective coating recall. I think you might have bought the trusty ole thing a new lease on life, cheers!
Welp, C6/C7 are great for battery life and heat management... I wonder if it's a hardware or software problem. Haswell has the VRM integrated on the die, so it's highly unlikely to be the processor itself.
I read one of the threads linked from that reddit post, I may have had to use archive.org. Someone names a specific power management IC and says they reflowed it. Sounded like a timing issue between CPU and the power management.
I mostly use my laptop in sporadic short bursts so battery time is not a huge issue, and the freedom of moving it around without it crashing is huge
Readit News
I’d really recommend doing the dust cleanup every year or so. It’s usually easy enough to remove the bottom cover of any laptop without particularly special screwdrivers.
Desktops (especially the PCs with the case Windows) are a bit easier to understand because you’ll see the clogged intakes and dust buildup much more readily.
One thing I like about mechanical keyboards is that the keys can be removed making cleaning much easier. Six months is a better timeline for keyboard cleaning, these things get _nasty_ especially if you have pets.
"particularly special"? The screwdrivers needed to open up a Macbook are special enough that I've never seen them used for any other object. So are you just glad that Apple didn't decide to create a new screwdriver standard for each Macbook model? :)
I've been using this guy for years: https://www.amazon.com/ORIA-Screwdriver-Professional-Precisi...
Currently $18. I haven't come across a device for which this kit didn't have a bit and the driver feels good in the hand. The outer case is hard plastic, but the inner "lining" is soft plastic, unfortunately. I wouldn't mind a similar kit with a better case, or just a carrier that will handle this kit neatly if anyone has suggestions.
Compared to Microsoft? They created a laptop that was impossible to open at all without destroying it.
>According to iFixit, the Surface Laptop isn’t repairable at all. In fact, it got a 0 out of 10 for repairability and was labeled a “glue-filled monstrosity.” The lowest scores previously were a 1 out of 10 for all previous iterations of the Surface Pro
It’s clear that Microsoft never intended for the Surface Laptop to be repaired because it’s a completely sealed device. There aren’t even any screws to take out, so iFixit had to slice the fabric cover open to peel it away from the metal chassis. That’s never going back together. The inner metal shield is also devoid of screws, relying instead upon spot welds and glue. Again, this is probably not going to be reassembled.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/251046-ifixit-labels-s...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw#Non-A...
Most people don't have small pen-sized phillips screwdrivers either on hand and would need to purchase one for this case as well.
It has everything you need to open essentially any computer and iPhones as well, and it's very compact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
After changing battery, computer flies again.
I finally let it die over Christmas. Or rather, I planned to power it up one last time, get fully updated on Windows 7, and then power it down forever and yank the HDD out to put in an enclosure. Of course, it chose to die in the middle of updates. Feh.
https://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/updated-guide-how-to-clean-...
We glued the other blades back on to tide him over until a replacement arrived, but each day one or two would break off and we'd have to give the laptop a good shake to expel them.
...it's often difficult to know how precise one must be when advising flatmates about compressed air.
Are there any thermal paste that doesn't degrade? Or minimal degrade within 5 years. We can fix dust with cleaning, we can get to a point where our computing needs could be done fanless ( Current iPad Pro ). But what about thermal paste degradation?
My 3yo notebook could be needing such a treatment. OTOH, I could just buy a new one notebook since there are some interesting things happening in mobile space this year (Renoir and Tiger Lake).
that's true, but I don't do it all the time because it seems the keys are more likely to pop off on their own.
I don't think vacuums are a great idea for electronics.
Is there any truth to the rumors I’ve heard that these cans of compressed air expel things that are detrimental to health (not just nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide)
> [1,1-Difluoroethane, or DFE] is also used as a propellant for aerosol sprays and in gas duster products.
> Because of inhalant abuse, a bitterant is added to some brands; however even this measure is not legally required and has not prevented widespread use of this product as a drug.
> In a DuPont study, rats were exposed to up to 25,000 ppm (67,485 mg m−3) for six hours daily, five days a week for two years. This has become the no-observed-adverse-effect level for this substance. Prolonged exposure to 1,1-difluoroethane has been linked in humans to the development of coronary disease and angina.[12]
Dead Comment
Note #2: every breathing computer keeps accumulating dust and requires cleaning every couple of months of years. It is worth it if only to keep the noise down.
Note #3: it is not safe to vacuum the laptop as it can cause static discharge. Technically, even just waving a charged object over a piece of conductor can induce a current and damage susceptible component. The damage might not be immediately apparent and may cause various types of malfunctions. If you have no other way of doing it at the very least ensure it is done in humid environment (over 70% humidity but the more humid the better).
https://www.reddit.com/r/spicypillows/
For some reason, pre-fixing “old” in the url makes the website unusable on mobile :-(.
That said, I have heard that ESD isn't nearly as big an issue as it's made out to be, particularly the idea of slow damage/damage build-up. I don't know if the ESD thing is akin to an old wives tale with a kernel of truth surrounded in increasing layers of falsehoods; or perhaps something that was once true and is no longer, but persists in the collective memory. On the other hand maybe there's some solid evidence for it. Anyone have any evidence beyond anecdotes?
I personally vacuum my devices with a regular vacuum. What I use is metal pipe which is grounded through my hand, strap, ESD mat to real ground.
Source: design engineer for EV company.
1: The compression is most commonly about 70kPa, but varies by manufacturer recommendations. Some manufacturers lately have started to recommend not to compress their cells because they have solved the swelling in other ways.
(Personal experience, from having cleaned many computers over the years with a vacuum.)
Think about your hand and PCBs as two plates of highly charged capacitor (say couple kV). When the discharge happens it will hit a random component or trace. A lot will depend on what the component or trace is. If the trace is data path between some ICs it is likely going to destroy either of them because it has no other way to flow to equalize with the rest of PCB than through one of the chips at the end of datapath.
I could be mistaken but I do believe you can throw a properly discharged lithium polymer battery in the trash, as there is nothing toxic in them. I don't think many laptops use LiPo though.
I don’t see many people mentioning the amazing reliability of this laptop.
I’ve had a similar experience with MacBook Pro (7 years, only problem was some keys started going bad).
There was a time you could not keep a laptop 7 years without significant component replacement or just having to replace it because it was no longer able to run modern software due to slower cpu, not enough ram (and not upgradable enough)... basically hardware obsolescence.
Now the components last AND the hardware is still fast enough to be useful after 7 years.
What a wonderful world we live in!
A few years ago I thought, if I can get this thing to 10 years, that’s a great deal and I’ll be happy to upgrade. Now it seems like maybe I’ll be able to use it forever? I’ve had to replace one battery and one fan in almost 12 years. The DVD drive does not work anymore, but I don’t use DVDs anymore.
Honestly I think security will be the biggest concern long term. It can’t upgrade the OS anymore and while whatever version of OS X it’s on seems very stable (it never crashes), it’s not getting patches anymore from Apple. Something will come along at some point.
You can usually work out where a product is on that lifecycle by looking at the amount of spare parts available on eBay. They are usually stripped down towards the end of the cycle rather than repaired as the rate of repairs is increasing. This is a good time to sell repairs as you have lots of cheap parts and lots of broken things on the market and no appetite for people to buy complete replacements.
Case in point on the bell curve, my 2018 MBA lasted two weeks before it died.
It's unfortunate it no longer gets software updates and also is plagued by the GPU Kernel Panic issue. Otherwise, I would keep it longer.
Hoping my new 2020 13" can last at least half as long!
I’ve just replaced it with an iPad Pro and will use my desktop for everything else.
https://twitter.com/moreati/status/1087046181434417152
Except for MagSafe it's a solid design.
Kind of funny though that we are amazed that our stuff is running for 7 years considering my old Toyota lasted 20.
I extracted a chunk of lint about 1/2 cm thick and the consistency of felt from the fan intake.
After that, the fan didn’t turn on nearly as often, and thermal management during Minecraft was much better.
Always runs like a new machine after that.
[0] be careful not to damage the fan's teeth
I wrecked a DVR doing this with a Dyson vacuum.
Compressed air or small piece of cotton cloth with rubbing alcohol is the way to clean exposed electronics.
Do it outside.
I have a Thinkpad that I purchased in early 2014 that is still going strong except for, as in your case, a degraded battery.
My grandparents used to play Freecell on a very early IBM Thinkpad (manufactured in 1993, I think) that I picked up for free in a garage sale in 2001. This machine lasted well into 2005, and probably still works today.
Highly recommend trying them out. These days you can get equivalent performance to Macbook Pros for maybe 60% of the cost.
Limitatations can enable innovation.
Indeed an early 2014 Thinkpad is my main work development box. It's a T540p with the excellent 3K matte screen. Admittedly I use it like a desktop computer, plugging in a keyboard and mouse (and, now, camera), so there's very little wear and tear, but in my mind it's basically still a new computer.
Fortunately most ThinkPads of this era had removable batteries, so this isn't as big of a deal as it would be for most laptops today. I'm currently using an X230 that I bought off eBay as my main personal laptop; it needed a new battery when I got it, but otherwise works great.
From my cold dead hands.
I still semi-frequently use a 2007 consumer-grade Dell that served as my only machine for 4.5 years, and as my primary laptop for another 5. It took six years for it to need a repair other than replacing a battery, and even today I get two hours of life from its latest replacement battery, and can swap in the next-oldest for 75-90 minutes more away from a power outlet.
Apple laptops do tend to last a long time, but if my goal were to buy a laptop I could use forever, I'd buy something else that was more repair-friendly instead.
At some point I expect I will stop getting MacOS updates which will force me to upgrade to a newer model.
With a tweak I was able to get Mojave on it, and another tweak to get Xcode to compile for iOS 13 on it. That should do me for a while, until either the video cable exposed through a hinge breaks, or they can’t get the latest iOS to compile on it. But I’m loathe to get a machine that won’t let me keep it alive the next 10 years.
Intel CPUs haven’t advanced that much since this machine's 2.66x4 i7. The video probably hurts more. It points to a future where we can just expect to put some money into maintaining our computing machinery instead of consuming it like it's a service. But given that John Deere has moved this way, I’m not hopeful that computers will go back that way. Support right-to-repair bills!
2006 had a bad run of MacBooks, so this is not an indictment of Apple equipment in general. But Apple equipment is not universally particularly durable, nor is Apple the only vendor to make durable laptops. They've taken a lot of shortcuts recently, and currently they've set the expected service lifetime of a new MB at around four years.
I was actually surprised how usable the computer still was after all this time, although the thermals suck quite hard. I imagine the 2011 thermal paste is nigh on useless at this point. Granted, I don't use the laptop much these days, but it'd still serve for basic browsing when needed.
It's nice to have things that run well with relatively small changes.
My 2017 6S wasn't charging properly. Charge would start, then a few minutes later, sometimes less, it would stop. I found that many times, if I inserted the plug with a bit more force, it would start charging, but later, it would stop. As is common the cable was frayed near the plug, so I replaced the cable. The situation didn't change.
I was at the point of deciding to replace the iPhone, since it was getting dated anyway, when my daughter suggested I clean the plug receptor.... the light bulb went on.
I grabbed a toothpick and started pulling out lint. Like your bellybutton lint. There was a lot of lint. It had become packed into the base of the receptor sufficiently to prevent the plug from making the contacts.
I had carried it in my pocket for 3 years, it likely gathered a few specks of lint each time I put it in there, and then I compacted the lint when I plugged it in next.
I had the Apple store replace the screen and battery about a year ago. The screen was suffering from the anti-reflective coating (1) recall, but I missed the repair program window. In every customer support conversation I had leading up to the repair, they would hint at "consumer protection law". This was a clue that if I then said "CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW" they would be forced to do the recall for free even though it was out of date. They ended up giving me the screen and battery for free.
Apple Store failed to identify and fix one issue that plagued me though, which was spontaneous black screen and poweroffs, especially when running on battery below 80%. It seemed like a power issue, or heat issue. I lived with it for two years, lugging a power brick around whenever I moved spots. With the Apple Stores closed due to covid, I contacted a local third party mac repair person. They said they've seen this before, it's a CPU power issue, and if you run a small script to keep the CPU out of really-low-power state it will stop happening (2). And they were right! So if you're experiencing this annoying problem as well, try this python script:
You may have to tweak the sleep value - higher values will let your CPU relax more but may trigger the power issue. Lower values will increase the CPU load but decrease the chance that the CPU hits this condition.I've been running this script for 2 weeks now and no freezes. It generates about 6-8% CPU load, so obviously my battery time is suffering, but the alternative (random freezes all day) was so annoying that I'm okay living with this.
1: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-stai...
2: https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/9pyort/apple_macbook_p...
Here's [1] what's worked for me.
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOSBeta/comments/c6f6e7/catalina_...
I work in metal fabrication, so the MagSafe2 constantly attracted tiny metal particles that follow me around.
I ended up replacing the DC in board, $25 part, then two weeks later it started behaving weird, pulled it apart again and reseated all the cables etc but it completely gave up.
Oh well, 7 solid years at AU$2000 end up costing less than $6 a week.
I’m now split between a new MacBook Air, or a Lenovo or HP with similar specs and screen resolution.
I have some Windows software I’ve paid for, but maybe I just run that in a Windows VM on the Mac..... hmmmm
1: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=usb-c+magsafe&crid=20NMLJRE2HMRI&...
My late-2013 Macbook Pro has recently started similar behavior. Somewhat randomly the screen will go black, sit like that for a while, then fans speed up for maybe 10 seconds then it eventually turns off. This whole cycle is something like 20 seconds.
Is this similar to what you observed which was fixed in your case by the script?
This is exactly what I was experiencing. Well, to be exact, there were three or four different failure modes. What you described is one of them.
Another was sometimes I close the lid to put it to sleep, and instead the fans would rev to 100% and sit there forever until I held the power button.
I have the script running in a terminal window and haven't had a spontaneous poweroff for 2 weeks now.
I'm in the exact situation - same MacBook, same goal to keep it running, & same screwup missing the reflective coating recall. I think you might have bought the trusty ole thing a new lease on life, cheers!
I mostly use my laptop in sporadic short bursts so battery time is not a huge issue, and the freedom of moving it around without it crashing is huge