After a bad breakup in 2015, I followed some advice from the socialskills subreddit to “talk to everyone” so that you get better at talking to women you might want to date. The advice was not to only talk to attractive people but everyone. The old man reading a Russian newspaper, the kid on bike doing tricks, people in the elevator.
I do that now and it brings me a lot of joy. Recently while leaving a botanical garden I spoke to a man who was excitedly looking for a few specific plants. He is a botanist (amateur? professional? unclear) and I enjoyed sharing in his passion for a moment. Then I saw a maintenance guy moving with great intention who took a moment to ask me and my family if we had a nice time. We did, and I asked him about the papers in his hand. “Gotta get approval for this purchase request asap.” He said. We talked a bit about how nice it is to work at such a beautiful place.
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
The "Helping You Not Become Your Parents" commercials (from some insurance company I think) make me sad.
They're basically making fun of people for trying to connect.
I'm in a spot where I don't really bump into strangers much but, as a recovering introvert I've tried to talk to people like this and it feels AMAZING.
Like... irrational levels of amazing vibes.
It's so frustrating seeing my own kids be horrified by it and be hyper-introverted and disdainful of connecting with strangers.
Lessons you learn the hard way -- then fail to pass onto the next generation -- hurt.
> They're basically making fun of people for trying to connect.
I had the same thought. The clueless people turning into their parents are charming and genuine. The life coach guy is kind of a dick.
Reminds me of Apple's "I'm a PC, And I'm a Mac" ads from Apple. I always understood the point they were trying to make, but the PC character was so much more likable than the Mac.
Talking to strangers is actually kind of nice as an introvert, there is very low pressure as you have no obligation to the person and you can end the conversation at any time.
I find it much nicer than talking to friends of friends or the absolute worst for me... the boyfriends of my girlfriends friends. You are getting shoved together into a forced interaction that you know will be asked about in the near future.
Probably at least once a week, you're going to see someone drop something, press the wrong button on the elevator, try to push on the pull door etc. My own stress always peeks when I'm in public and trip up on something minor like that. If you just shout "hey you need help?" you're probably not going to make them feel any better and doubly worse if you just avoid eye contact and walk around them. When that happens to me, it can reaaaally sour a morning.
But saying "they really need to make these doors automatic, I dropped my coffee here last week!" and helping out if they want it has the EXACT opposite effect. Suddenly, it's not embarrassing any more, and you might have a little convo commiserating about what sucks. It's just a little bit of connection to make someone's day a bit better which is definitely a win-win and good way of breaking the seal on talking to folks.
There's also another more neutral option. Just give them the answer they need without the fluff. If they then want to thank you and chat it's their choice, but completely optional.
This is probably not the right approach most of the time, but it works well on the types of people who seem "serious" (not anxious or upset).
This is a really hard one to pull off. You have to determine that they really are that type of person and then just magically know what they want. It's really satisfying when it works though.
I've met some of the most interesting people I've ever known that way.
> I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
Which country are you in?
I'm from a latin country and the norm is that you end up chatting about life the universe and everything with any random people you share a space with for more than one minute.
But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up. I've been in the USA for a long time and as an introverted person I'm mostly ok with that, but whenever I'm back home I realize how much I miss talking to random people.
A lot of seemingly casual interactions in the US turn out to be someone trying to sell something. When that happens a 3rd time, you start to ignore random chatter from someone that seems too friendly. The salesperson tactics abuse common social conversation rules, and one ends up feeling like they are being forced to be mean and rude to an idiot. So, to avoid that, we push away chatty strangers in the United States.
When I visited New York City (and the US) for the first time in like 2010 I was taken a back but how much Americans like to chat randomly so this is strange to read.
I remember a random guy was chatting to me in the subway, then I got out, waiting at a crosswalk for the green, in those 15 seconds another guy starts another random conversation. In the first 2 hours of the trip I already had maybe 10 random circumstantial conversations. The whole trip I felt like if I wanted I could always be talking!
> But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up.
This is regional within the US and obviously differs by person even then. Just remember that the people you are talking to may be the kind of people that need articles like the above to teach them how to talk to people. Their defenses go up when someone approaches them and while they are well practiced at appearing relaxed, they are not. Conversations are short because its emotionally difficult to stay in a heightened awareness state while someone is trying to pull you out of it. But you can certainly provide offramps
I think it depends on the part of the US. In my experience, being from the south, I am used to people engaging in small talk with strangers. However, working in the northeast I find people to be very transactional until you wear them down over an extended period of time haha.
I think a lot of it has to do with the somewhat complicated engagement protocol, if everyone assumes that nobody else wants to talk then it's easier to just keep your head down and at best nod or even avert eye contact but when someone extends a level of conversational courtesy I think people often respond in kind. My challenge is that I don't often have the impulse to break the ice but when I do and feel genuinely outgoing people tend to appreciate the chit chat even if it's just about the weather but I also have many moments of standing awkwardly in elevators silently ascending or walking down the street silently and even feeling awkward ordering food. Being able to consistently be outgoing I feel would be a net positive but I'm not sure what the trick is to just turn it on without it feeling forced.
For what it's worth, this has not been my experience with Americans. There are certainly things that I don't like about the average American, but I find him to be pretty gregarious.
I’m in the US in the Bay Area. Talking to strangers is not the norm but plenty of people are responsive and happy to talk if you engage them. Break the norms and see how it goes!
When I was staying with my older brothers, one of their magazines was along the lines of maybe a GQ but in the 90’s, iirc I was probably in middle school, and probably reading content a bit above my age level in terms of concept.
One of their articles though was about “talking to women” but it also emphasized just talking to _anyone_. It had suggestions like “if you’re out at the bar, just ask to sit with a random group, introduce yourself, and have a conversation.”
Many years later in college, I did indeed try this at a bar and was pleasantly surprised. I didn’t make any long term friends, or find a new partner, but I did really start honing the skill of being social with anyone. It’s hard, and especially for me and my social anxiety, it has also really helped me feel more comfortable in places unfamiliar and people unknown.
It really helps to learn in an environment where failure isn't emotionally catastrophic. If you only talk to people that are interesting or important to you, then you can end up learning the wrong things because failure hits so hard. The desperation this can create will further serve to drive people away!
People need to feel like it's safe to develop relations with you, rather than like you're trying to manipulate them into doing so, which is what happens when you learn only from very hard failures.
I suppose you're comfortable with it though. Many people aren't comfortable with even the basic step of starting a random conversation or asking strangers questions/for help.
You don't need to do it, but everyone should probably be at least comfortable/confident striking up conversations with people they don't know.
Did people only talk about themselves? It is probably a rare trait when someone legitimately cares about other peoples inane daily lives.
It would be interesting to actually talk to hundreds of people a week for years, you would probably get really good at categorizing people and predicting where they are in life and what their current concerns are.
I have a couple of tricks that get people to talk to me.
Well, they're not really tricks, just things I do anyway.
One is that I wear an aloha shirt every day, and I shop at Trader Joe's.
Quite often someone thinks I work there and asks me where to find something. I usually know where things are, and if I don't, I find them someone who actually does work there.
One time the guy restocking the freezer said, "Nice aloha shirt! I bet people sometimes ask you where to find things."
30 seconds later, a lady walked up to me and asked if we carry organic bread. So I walked her over to the bread section and pointed out some organic options. Then back to the freezer section: "You were right!"
Another trick is to take my cat Oakey for a walk in his cat stroller. People see the stroller and expect to see a baby in it, and are surprised to see a cat! Children walking with their parents especially love to see Oakey, and he enjoys the attention.
Sometimes you just have to seize the moment. Last year I was at a friend's company summer picnic. One of her colleagues brought her ten year old son. He was wearing an astronomy T-shirt. They were sitting at another table, and as they got up I asked him, "Are you into astronomy?"
"Yes."
"I have a very important question for you. Pluto is still a planet, right?"
"Yes it is!"
We high-fived and I said, "Welcome to Team Pluto!"
We've seen each other at subsequent company events. It is always fun to hang out with a fellow astronomy enthusiast of any age.
I think an important parts of this is that "talking to someone" doesn't have to mean a long drawn-out conversation. Even just a few words back and forth is meaningful.
> I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
I’ve been here since 2009 and this is one of the loveliest comments I’ve read.
At face value, it may seem ‘duh!’.. but there’s a distinct aesthetic to it that resonated with me.
Perhaps the best analogy I can think of is Asimov’s philosophy about writing.
‘I want the reader to forget they are reading as if my thoughts are being transmitted directly from my brain into theirs’ [sic]
Recently, a research publication demonstrated that an LLM.. nah, not today. Sometimes knowing the underlying theory and deciding to disengage from it and just appreciate the moment is fine.
Because I can go outside my apartment here in Tokyo right now and try it. I already do, but each of us has our own unique loveliness. So I’ll keep trying. Just because.
Regarding Japan, and especially Tokyo though, chats with strangers seems nightmarishly difficult (assuming in Japanese). Maybe with tourists in English, but locals?
The exception would be at a bar or similar but outside of that... Yeesh I get terrified even considering it.
I found mixed results given underlying anxiety that hadn't been diagnosed at the point I was trying this. Talking to new people at work, while out pursuing hobbies, and around town, all accrued to more and better conversations.
It was a much bigger struggle with conversations where I was putting extra pressure on myself. Being able to have those other conversations was helpful though. Eventually, I found a therapist and am in a better place with this.
Letting curiosity be the motivator behind starting these conversations and cultivating curiosity more broadly can help -- or at least I have found it to be helpful in making initiating feel less forced. I wonder about people's jobs or the reasons they are visiting a place or what they think about what's happening nearby, or just generally who they are.
One antipattern I've encountered with this approach tho is that sometimes anxious people will exhaust their conversation partners with a battery of questions. Even if thoughtful, this can sometimes have the effect of exhausting your partner, and tends to keep the conversation steered away from actual connection. YMMV, but either way be mindful and make it a point to share yourself
You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want to do.
I considered leaving just that pithy reply, because that's really it. But some of the extra context; It's not a bother to ask someone to hold the door they're already going through because your hands are full. Starting a conversation is about as intrusive as that. The vast majority of people don't mind making some small talk, and ontop of that, the majority can make an excuse if they don't have time. You only assume they can't politely decline, because you can't. Once you learn to say no thanks, politely, but explicitly and directly. You'll actually understand and expect others to return the favor.
That's a much more fair way to interact with people too.
For me that clicked we are all just kids. Your parents are struggling with some problems in everyday life as you are. Your teachers sometimes might say they don't know the answer to your question in their field which is alright. (Parents and teachers are two figures who we look up to.) My point is that if you're thinking, "they have much more experience and I don't, so no need to bother them.." you're wrong. Basically, they could have more things, but about same lot of problems in the life as you. After that, just start asking simple questions.
As the article says, you just take the risk. Maybe you will bother the person. It’s okay, you’ll be able to quickly tell if you do, and you just gracefully back away and go on with your day. It’ll probably happen much less than you think.
My grandpa had a gift for people - the man could start a conversation with anyone, form fast friends and remember their spouse’s middle name in twenty years.
As he put it, it’s a coin toss. Maybe you’re bothering them or maybe they’re grateful to have someone to distract them. Each is equally true before you start the conversation.
The key is being able to read social cues. If you can, you can stop bothering them.
Would you be bothered if a stranger struck up a nice conversation with you? Most people like it! And even if they don’t, that’s ok, trust people to tell you their boundaries and respect them when they do. Nothing wrong with bothering someone if they tell you or send a strong signal and you respect it.
I usually just start with a small harmless joke about the current situation we're both in. People either don't respond to it, and I leave them alone, or they engage and a conversation commences.
I think that it comes down to that people often like to talk about their interests but worry that the recipient may not be. So we end up with two people who want to talk but worried about the others feelings.
This is a common mistake many make - please don't be a "mind reader" and make assumptions. Seek clarification. Treat people like adults, and act like adults - you have the right to talk to anyone or ask someone for help. They have the right to be dismissive towards you or say no for whatever personal reason. People have different personalities. Sometimes, even nice people people act differently depending on the day they had and their moods. The point is, if they are strangers, you don't need to attribute any meaning or malice to this. However, always be mindful of social conventions and cultural practices.
Most people crave conversation and interaction. Those that are busy enough to potentially really be bothered will either show that clearly, or tell you so.
Don't talk to me though, while I am trying to do focused work ...
Or other people who are really busy right now, but in general yes, most people enjoy random interactions and talks. And most people do have interesting things to share. You have to have genuine interest, though. Don't force it - but be open for it. Make eye contact first and then you might connect. It is astonishing how many grim looking people suddenly start to smile and act friendly, if you just start a friendly conversation with them. Even if it is just a exchange of a simple comments.
To summarize, the suggestion was to live like you live in the Midwest outside of urban/suburban areas. That's very funny to me.
My spouse had a hard time acclimating to rural Midwest life after living in a mega city on the East Coast. She complained that everything takes an extra half hour for time spent standing around talking about nothing.
It never dawned on me that if you're from a place, like a large city, where interacting with strangers or very distant acquaintances isn't encouraged, that this would not be a natural part of life.
I find this interesting but don't know what to do with that.
Yup. I’m super social and extroverted, in the sense that I love meeting new people and if I’m introduced to anyone I make connections easily. But I can’t in a million years be the one breaking the ice.
This is in big part due to being born and raised in a large European capital. There’s unwritten barriers you respect as a social rule, and if someone breaks the rule you assume they’re trying to sell something or scam you. To me talking to a stranger unprompted feels as out of place as pulling my pants down in public.
It’s natural for these barriers to exist to make dense spaces liveable, but they do constrain you.
That's like that scene from Crocodile Dundee - for those that don't know the movie, the guy is from some tiny town way out in the sticks in Australia, and visits NY. In the scene I'm thinking of, Dundee walks down a street in NY following his usual habit of greeting everyone, which is difficult as they don't expect it and there are too many anyway.
I used to live in a rural area and I found it so claustrophobic. I hate living in a place where I've seen everyone's face, know every street and every building. It feels so limiting, there's nothing to explore, no magic shops or communities to discover.
And also, I really hated the religious mindset with all the little rules they have, the hatred for lgbt people, single parents, foreigners etc. There were good people too but you always had to watch who was around to have a chat. I'm very progressive and atheist. And very alternative.
My ex who was from this community even got in trouble with some parents because she told the kids she was minding that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Apparently it's normal to deny all the progress we have made as a society.
I just couldn't deal with it, it just made me so depressed. And this wasn't even in the US but just in Europe.
In the city it's much easier to find open-minded people. And the ones who aren't don't control public life. I don't ever want to live in a rural area again after that (though in fairness I do have some ptsd from it).
I hope this is not an inappropriate question, but are you by any chance fit and/or attractive? I've heard that and being well dressed affects your experience with people a lot.
For me it's a mix, the majority at least try to be decent and pleasant, no argument there. But as with many other things, the minority who aren't tend to have a much bigger impact. Honestly, I'd take just being safe from violence from people is good enough for me, even that isn't a given.
What kind of violence have you experienced from striking up friendly conversations with strangers in otherwise normal circumstances? What are you talking about?
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
I did this a few times and it surprisingly worked. I was able to make small talk about an article I was reading. Did it matter that I didn't come off with the confidence of Tony Robbins? No.
Obviously this works only if you are an extrovert. Introverts would find this kind of interaction a wasteful use of limited social energy available to them.
Making global declarations about introverts isn't really useful beyond the basics. I'm an introvert and my life has gotten noticeably better once I started intentionally talking to people more. I still need to have my own time to recharge. That hasn't changed. The thing that changed is that I'm not longer inhabiting the self-imposed prison of thinking social interaction was not for me.
Not sure why you got downvoted with a perfectly valid opinion!
I’ve done what OP describes but I’m heavily introverted and likely HSP too. I’m pretty good at it but it’s incredibly exhausting. My father is exactly the same way.
As I get older, the more I consider self care and prioritising my own needs over others to be happy. To that end, I much prefer to keep to myself and so I do.
However it doesn’t stop me from engaging in impromptu conversations. I just don’t go out of my way to talk to literally everyone.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but yes, this is true.
I don't want or need to talk to everyone, and I generally don't appreciate people I don't know or won't know in five minutes to engage me in idle chatter. Just leave me be.
I'm not a grouch, I'm not a grump, I'll be friendly but why do you have to harass me?
I'm perfectly comfortable in my own skin, doing my own thing, by myself. I don't have social anxiety, I'm not a misanthrope. Just let me be.
Introverts aren't broken. You don't have to impose yourself on everyone else.
Talking to strangers is one of my favorite things to do. Airplanes, trains, or just waiting at the coffee shop for them to make my drink. I have met so many interesting people and it’s almost always a joy.
Now, you occasionally end up talking to someone who confesses to you that their post-nuclear dream life is to be a mother figure to a band of semi-aware ghouls. Goofy in the moment, but makes for a great story to share over a beer!
I used to do this during long travel in planes, buses or trains when I was single backpacker.
Now traveling with my own family is just exhausting chore and I couldn't care less about stranger sitting next to me, I heard enough stories for whole my life since I traveled a lot.
Recently I traveled with my mother to China and she was excited to talk with some girl next to her on long flight, I didn't find any value gained from such conversation and would rather watch a movie (or outside window is that was an option) and find it harder and harder older I get to see the added value.
I try to talk to everyone but it gets exhausting since most people don't seem to want to talk. And in almost every instance, I had a feeling they wouldn't. Go with your gut and don't try to talk to everyone if you're like me and don't want to replay awkward conversations in your head for the rest of the night.
I have a note at the beginning of my journal that says: 'Stand up straight, eye contact, smile', because I constantly need to remember that or I will look down, slouch and move through the world barely interacting with anyone.
Please also recognize when others don't really want to talk. Not everybody want to go beyond cultural niceties of a smile and "hi, how you doing". I don't want to be a jerk, but I also don't like to talk to random strangers.
This will never be me (I find any kind of smalltalk excruciating). But I'm so grateful, not to say relieved, that there are people like you. Society needs you.
"EXCUSE ME, SIR! I see you are moving with great intention. Might your hurriedness be in connection with those papers you hold in your hand? Pray tell, for I much desire to converse! Aah, I see, I was right to assume you were in a hurry. Anyway, it must be wonderful to be working at a place as beautiful as this, is it not? Hah ha ha yees, isn't it wonderful. Well, alright then be on your way if you must."
Sorry but I couldn't help imagining you as the fake health inspector from Fawlty Towers while reading your comment.
I do agree with you though, talking is great, we are social animals even though modern life allows us to forget this, to our own detriment.
Until you run into an A-hole whose response ruins the rest of your day when you were just trying to be sociable. I could even see getting physically assaulted for trying to talk to the wrong stranger. I like where your heart is at, unfortunately many people out there are not deserving of it.
The idea of practicing these random interactions is also to get accustomed to rejections from the assholes.
After all, they aren’t the majority- most people are actually quite nice and often appreciate a company (or will politely tell you they don’t need one)
I mean, why does it ruin your day? It's just some random person - you'll likely never see them again, or you'll know to avoid them in the future. Why is the opinion of some rando weighing on you so much?
Of course, not everyone wants to talk while in public, and not everyone knows how to politely decline a conversation. That's also fine, everyone's somewhere on the social spectrum(s).
I have tried this at various times. But, while some people are lovely, there are some that are miserable and there are plenty that are simply... uninterested. When you are slightly awkward, not particularly attractive, and not wealthy, you have to get used to people just turning away, avoiding eye contact, expressing mild cues of disgust, and so forth. It's really quite painful to try.
It's great as long as they don't turn out to be a creep. And that's terrible advice for practicing talking to women. Talking to a person you're attracted to, or want anything from in general, isn't going to present the same way. No matter how much you practice. Attractive women have to deal with that, all day, every day. They'll shut it down quickly if they're not interested. You'll be the creep if you don't quietly take the hint, and walk away, when they're not.
An old guy sat at the table next to mine at an outdoor cafe. I don't remember what I said to start the conversation but he told me he'd lived in Japan for 3yrs in the 50s, married a Japanese woman, they moved to Redondo Beach and she convinced him to buy a house more than they could afford. He said it was the best decision of their lives. He then said she'd past away a few years ago and they had no kids.
I ask him what he thought of the population crisis Japan is facing. He said said that was bullshit and that 8 billion people in the world are way too many.
Why so quick to moralize? What makes you think your perspective on world population is justified and his isn't?
This could have been an opportunity for both of you to understand each other's perspective. That's why you asked their thoughts on the matter right? It's a shame you let that pass you by.
That was rather rude I think, why'd you stop talking to him instead of the purpose of communication - learning about other people? Killing conversations because of a difference of opinion - and one where you didn't even explore the reasonings - is why the world is becoming more and more polarised.
While I don't agree about population either way, in my lifetime it's grown from about 3 billion to over 8 billion. This has been quite a ride. Also, there's a world of a difference between global carrying capacity with responsible aliens managing, and our current management.
This is me. I learned to not talk to strangers because 80% of the time I just get disappointed. Either I need to reflect my disagreement with their (imo) stupid takes or just be unauthentic and agree.
Yesterday I got stuck with this kind of stranger for 3 hours for work stuff. It was just me and him driving. When he started telling racist jokes and expressed his dissatisfaction with human rights I thought here we go again and went for the unauthentic route. As the conversation rolled he became more easy and personal. Told me about his family, his immigration and less nice parts of his life. I felt compassion and it really feels like we ended up being more connected than the beginning.
My recently deceased mother had a talent for talking to anyone at any time in any language. She's always been incredibly social and could establish connections with strangers very rapidly. One time she brought in a school teacher/sheep farmer from Dagestan selling yarn from his sheep's wool, she met him at the market and bought all yarn and asked if he had somewhere to stay before going back, and he didn't. He stayed in our house for a couple of nights, and then we visited him in that little village in mountains of Dagestan on a summer vacation, talk about going back a few centuries in time, an incredible and unusual experience.
I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
It served her very well in her chosen career of real estate sales, although I think she'd might have done really well in community organizing or even politics where those skills are also very useful.
On the flip side, it was sometimes difficult to be there as family wanting some attention, since her bright light was always shining in many directions.
I've inherited just some of that talent, and I think it is a talent, but trainable.
> I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
I love this story, because I had the same experience. When my dad passed, I had the same 500 email limitation, and had to send out multiple waves of emails through Gmail. He was loved by so many people!
It is fascinating to be around such social people. I still remember my great-uncle as a kid. He lived a very simple live as a rural farmer in Germany. He did not have a wife, and he didn‘t have kids, but he had a deep tie to his family and everyone around him. When he passed away during my teens, there were hundreds of people attending his funeral. I was amazed by the impact he must have had on all their lives given they‘ve taken time out of their day to give him a last farewell.
I also notice the generational gap the author of this article highlights. My parents are in their 50s, my brother and I are in our mid 20s.
My parents still have their friends from school, from their apprenticeships and different times of their lives. We can‘t go anywhere in a 100km radius without my dad knowing someone. In school I literally had bus drivers ask me if I am <dad‘s name> son, not because they heard my name, but because we look so much alike.
When looking into my brothers and my life, most of our friends from school left for far away. Things my parents considered normal back in their days, are now considered weird. While my parents still experience an incredibly supportive circle of friends, I would not know who to invite to my hypothetical wedding tomorrow.
Granted, I may be an extreme example. But even when looking more generalized among my peers, most of the friendships we have seem to be significantly more superficial and also fewer than our parents.
I talk to everyone. My friends and family joke that it’s impossible for me to go anywhere without getting into conversation with someone. I can’t imagine not doing it. Earlier this year I walked down the main shopping street it the part of the large city where I live, with a colleague from out of town.
A few shopkeepers waved through their windows as I went past, the greengrocer came out of his shop to have a quick chat, the dry cleaner asked after my dog, and the guy from the household shop told me they have more of the cleaning paste I use. We bumped into a couple of folk I see every couple of weeks, then got a coffee and I paid the “special” rate rather than the rate on the sign that they charge people they don’t know.
My colleague said - half jokingly - “I didn’t realise you were mayor”, and tried to convince me that I should go into local politics. She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
I can’t imagine not talking to people. A while back I changed the route I take when I walk my dogs each day, and the guy who runs the local fish stall started asking people if I had left the area or died. I don’t buy fish from him each week- but every time I see him stop and we have a chat.
I feel incredibly lucky to be missed by my fishmonger just because I started walking my dogs a different route.
I grew up in a tiny village in the country. The building I live in has hundreds of people living in it, compared to the few dozen houses where I grew up. I think talking to people makes a huge city feel smaller.
You can never go wrong with genuinely asking someone how their day is going. If someone doesn't want to talk it's very easy for them to shutdown the conversation and move on. But, I find most of the time people are dying to talk about how good/bad their day is going.
Think of it this way. Everyone's favorite topic is themselves. Give someone an opportunity to talk about themselves and most people will take it. The nuance that takes practice is not peppering the person with questions. Ask, give them time to respond, and then maybe say something from your own day and ask a follow up to something they said. That way you keep them doing most of the talking, but it's not an interrogation.
As for the awkward part, embrace it! I can be super awkward so I just run towards it. "Ending a random convo is always awkward for me, so I'll just say it was nice to chat and maybe chat again sometime." Usually there's a chuckle and done.
A few things I do: I'll point something out, and ask a question. So if I'm in a shop I'll saying something like "I've never seen that before - is it popular?"
If I'm getting a coffee if the barista says "How are you?" Rather than just saying something non-committal I'll say "I'm good thanks, it looks like you're having a busy day/quiet day - has it been like this all day?" or I'll ask a question about the beans (if it's the sort of place they regularly rotate through different beans) or I'll ask what the music that's playing is, or something like that. You can immediately tell if someone wants to continue the conversation. And obviously, if it's busy I won't try to engage them in a longer conversation unless they seem to want to.
If I'm waiting for a bus or a train asking someone "Do you know if this one goes to....{destination}?" is an easy start - obviously, even if you know it does, and you want to talk to someone, it's a good start. And then you can say "Thanks, that's really helpful, I'm going to {destination} so that I can {do a thing}. How about you - are you going anywhere nice today?"
The key thing is knowing whether someone is open to a longer conversation. That's something you can only learn by pushing through the awkwardness of people shutting you down and turning away, or making it clear they don't want to talk.
But when they do, it's almost always very enjoyable, even if it's only a few minutes.
It's amazing the difference you'll find if you go to the same shops/places regularly and make the effort to exchange a genuine human interaction with the people you meet - they remember you, and they make an effort to do things to please you. That's not why I do it, it's a positive consequence.
I think the biggest thing is to have the conversations with people with no agenda. You're not trying to achieve something, you're just exchanging a pleasant interaction with someone, and hopefully you both leave feeling a little more connected to the world.
And always ending by saying something like "Well, it was nice talking to you! See you around!/have a lovely day/something".
If you can leave people feeling like you liked the interaction, you'll gradually feel like the interactions are pleasant.
It doesn't really matter what you have to say or ask - basically the point of small talk is to express to people "I like you!". Just try to find something to like and the conversation comes (not always, but usually)
> talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous
Only if you let it! I am guessing you would do well, because people can absolutely tell when you are being a smarmy politician and when you're actually a legitimately friendly, decent person.
It’s still tainted though. Even if OP buries that underlying transaction, the other people he is talking to might (like I would) assume OP is bullshitting to placate me and secure my vote.
> She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
It doesn't have to and I suspect that's why your colleague suggested it. Politicians act that way because that's what people want except they don't want someone who is acting.
You have what politicians pretend to have because it makes people like them.
You might be a terrible politician for other reasons but I don't think what you've said is true.
There are plenty of politicians who get into politics precisely because they love interacting with everyone.
It doesn't take the pleasure out of it, it doesn't make it transactional. It just gives them incredible job fulfillment, at least in that part of it.
Bill Clinton was famous for this. It was incredibly frustrating to his staff because he was constantly late for his next event, because he always wanted to keep talking to the people he'd just met. They'd have to build in buffer time to plan around it, because otherwise it wound up disrupting his schedule and logistics too much.
I'm surprised by all the people saying they dislike transactional talk. Voluntary trades are positive sum by definition, so a good transactional conversation should also be a joyous one.
Genuinely curious as someone who wants to improve… what the hell do you talk about?
I’m trying to picture the random people I encounter while walking my dog, for example. Neighbors who I don’t know. That’d be a great place to start up a convo as I walk by but I draw a complete blank.
The weather?
Do some self disclosure? Or make something up? Be silly?
"oh it's such a nice day innit? It's a shame the lizard people won bingo but we'll get them next time eh?"
Be silly, get a laugh, and hopefully things unfold from there. Give a compliment! Or share something you're excited about. Imo Self-disclosure is the simplest route towards spurring conversation.
Think of conversation as a medium through which gifts are given. Through giving gifts, bonds are forged.
1. Talk about them. Start by paying attention to them. Then when you notice something that was clearly an intentional choice on their part, say something nice about it. Listen carefully to what they say, and follow up in response without filtering yourself.
2. Talk about us. Notice some aspect of experience that you are both sharing. The weather is the most popular and safest topic.
It makes me sad that my reaction to this piece is so cynical, but I really think that 90% of the "how" in this article is "be an older British lady". If you're missing that vital piece you'll quickly meet many people who "don't have any money", or just remembered they meant to be walking on the other side of the street, or worse. Talking to strangers when people see you as a threat feels really shitty (for everyone involved) and can be dangerous.
I think you're wrong personally. I'm very far away from being "an older British lady" and agree a lot with the article.
Honestly, in the least combative & confrontational possible, your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and engage with the rest of your world. It's a little sad (not you, the situation itself) because if more people had that same thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with no one talking to each other and those people you allude to being an afraid to talk too for whatever reason become the only people out there talking. We're certainly not there yet and I hope we never get there
I agree that it's a sad state of affairs, and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe I can explain my perspective in a little more detail.
In my typical day at work (teacher), I spend hours talking with dozens of people. A large part of why I chose this work was to escape the isolation that I felt previously when I was doing remote software work. I attend weekly religious services and make an effort to stay for the social hour afterwards. When I go to parties, I don't feel like I have an unusually hard time talking with people. I'm not always as engaged with the world as I'd like, but I don't feel that I'm avoiding it either.
But this article isn't broadly about having conversations with new people: it's about approaching strangers in public settings one-on-one (the article mentions a bus stop, the street, and a mostly empty train carriage), where there's no expectation of social interaction. This is a different situation with its own set of pitfalls. Nobody is going to assume that I'm trying to rob them when I introduce myself at Quaker meeting. No one is going to think I'm a creep for asking a student about their hobbies while I'm at school. We don't see articles about people getting shot for starting up a conversation at a party.
But all of that goes out the window in the settings that the author describes. It's funny, the author mentions feeling like it was "rude and unsafe" to start a chat during the pandemic. I felt like talking to strangers in public got much easier during the pandemic, when people were desperate for any sort of in-person conversation. It's the normal times when this sort of interaction feels rude and unsafe.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic, maybe it would be fine for me to let my guard down a little. I think that loneliness is a huge issue these days and I'm grateful for the efforts people are making (including the author of the article) to address it. But approaching strangers in public in the way the author describes is a special case that is *much* more fraught than other types of social interaction, and is a lot harder for certain people to do successfully. I wish it weren't that way, and maybe it's worth pushing back against, but that doesn't change the current reality. Some people might not feel this way, but they're probably the people for whom it's not true.
So be an older British lady? You get to decide how people see you. Hair, clothes, body language, smile, is 90% of how people decide whether they want to interact with you.
When I dye my hair all kinds of colors, random people talk to me (and the specific colors even dictate who talks). When I dress up in a suit, people treat me more seriously. When I dress like a contractor and drive my truck, regular dudes talk to me at gas stations. And when I dress queer, women (and some dudes) smile at me.
I'm not even outgoing personality-wise, which would help more. Personality's the mental equivalent of physical appearance. Think of it like acting: actors pretend to be a certain way, and if it feels genuine, it makes us love or hate them, intrigued or bored. It's a lot more work than changing clothes, but it works no matter what you wear.
I don't think older British lady is in the cards for me but I get your point. One of my friends has a dog (a very cute little yorkie) who I take on walks fairly often. Let me tell you: I get so many people coming up to me wanting to talk when I'm out walking that dog. It's like I'm suddenly transported to a different universe where people are 100x more sociable.
It makes sense: people love dogs. It gives us something in common and is a starting point for conversation. And people with cute dogs seem much less threatening.
But I also kind of resent it. I wish people would want to talk to me when I'm just me.
> You get to decide how people see you. Hair, clothes, body language, smile, is 90% of how people decide whether they want to interact with you.
I see what you're getting at, but also this take kinda annoys me because it falls into the bucket of implying a personal fault. If people don't socialise with you then it must be because you do or don't do X, Y, Z. "Just do X" and you'll become a social butterfly.
Based on my personal experience, I don't know if I buy it. I guess I'm a regular enough guy, but seriously almost never, across my whole life, does someone invoke random socialisation with me. Yet I know people who can't even take the bus without strangers striking up conversations and hassling them, while they are actively trying to be antisocial. What magic trick are these people performing? Can I learn the same trick? What if I don't want to perform it? I think the reality is that for some (many?) people, it just doesn't work out and it's not necessarily due to any particular flaw.
Yeah. That's something I constantly worry about. If I'm in a random scene, most people don't want a large black man approaching them. The calculus completely changes.
That's why I gotta pick my venues. But those venues are shrinking and growing farther apart.
I went through a phase where I forced myself to socialise a lot to overcome social awkwardness and anxiety. Was well worth it, both in terms of leveling up my social skills but also in terms of eventually becoming very comfortable with myself.
The main ingredient, at least for me, was being determined enough to push through the discomfort. A lot of the early interactions were awkward, sometimes overtly uncomfortable, but that's an unavoidable part of the learning process (and I took a key lesson from it - it's okay to look like a dork, usually it's only our inner critic that turns it into an immortal sin).
Nowadays I feel a pang of sympathy when I see someone feeling shy or speaking in self-deprecating terms. I remember how that felt, and I remember how easy it would have been to have stayed inside that box for the rest of my life.
I am still at the awkward early interaction stage.
How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the conversation but I don’t know where to take it after. How are you able to shift to the next stage when you have both agreed that the weather today is nice.
How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time?
Finally, how do you end the conversation when you're still going in the same direction or waiting at the same place?
> How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the conversation but I don’t know where to take it after.
Some ideas:
Ask what they’re passionate about.
Talk about what you’re passionate about.
Say you’re trying to improve yourself and ask if there is anything they’ve learned lately about life that you should know.
Ask for their advice/opinion on a recent problem you’ve faced or something that surprised you recently.
>How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time?
First, hold up a mirror: do you feel your time is wasted when someone talks to you? Second, everyone benefits from bonds and talking enables trust. Even if the relationship is temporary, it brings comfort. Think of two people at an airport going out on different planes. Even a short conversation with someone makes them trust enough to let the other watch their heavy luggage while they go to the bathroom.
>Finally, how do you end the conversation when you're still going in the same direction or waiting at the same place?
Yeah, this is always a little awkward. You can just say something like “It’s been nice talking to you. I’m going to go back to reading my book.” Sometimes I’ll make a polite fib like saying I’ve got to think about an important presentation or have some pressing emails that I need to read.
You've created problems that don't exist. They're concerns that most people don't have.
You don't know what to say. That's fine.
You might be wasting their time. That's fine.
You might not know how to end the conversation. That's fine.
It's ok to be awkward. It's ok to be honest. It's ok to bother people as long as you take their feedback appropriately. It's ok to walk away without saying anything.
The more often that you talk to people and actively reflect on the REAL outcomes of it, the sooner you'll realize those concerns aren't shared by most other people.
Myself, I tend to ask with open question, a good ice breaker is: "Hey mate, hows your day going on a scale of 1-10?"
That gives them a chance to take a break and think. If they say three, you put yourself in their shoes. "Hey, that sucks. what's going on?" just lending a warm comforting subtle "I'm around right now if you want to talk"
If they give you a higher number, inquire why. "Wow, a 7? That's great. How come?" Both results in giving them option to speak. You compliment in both situations, a win win. If they return with a single closing statement acknowledge it and move on, "all the best".
If you need to end, a simple of "hey, it was great talking. I've got my coffee it was a pleasure talking to you while I waited, I've got to take off but it was a pleasure to talk".
You cater it to the situation you're in. If they want to talk then they will, if they don't then they won't.
Those forced conversations have a shelf-life because they’re artificial.
Note, rather, how friends converse and how little scripting is involved. When two good friends meet they don’t say their profession, or academic rank, or ask interrogatory questions. They exchange enthusiasm for each others presence and the conversation tends towards exchanges of perspective/experience and reflection thereof. Statement, vibes, counter-statement(?), more vibes.
That kind of familiar, friendly, approach to conversation is always available and short circuits the scripts. It efficiently probes for people who want to talk and what they want to talk about. It also tends to involve a lot of dumb-yet-charming assertions about the current situation, which takes awareness not planning. A ‘sense’ of humour, not a tight 5 locked and loaded. “Fuck, now that’s a lineup…” isn’t a refined piece of social engineering, but it’s a serviceable conversation starter and the least important part if you’re still talking three hours later.
Honestly, it doesn't really matter what you say. It's mostly about body language and not seeming like a threat (smile).
You can talk about whatever. Tell them about a movie you just saw and ask them about recommendations. Ask them for restaurant or dinner suggestions. Tell them about that article you just read which you found intereting.
If they are open to small talk, they will drop some tidbits that you can spring off on. Conversation is a two way street. If they don't seem interested in keeping the conversation going, tell them to have a nice day and carry on with yours.
I came to think of it like skilling up at a game. For instance the one I'm most familiar with, Counterstrike. When you first play Counterstrike you're clueless - you don't know where to aim, you don't know how to control the guns, it's a mess. How do you fix that? Practice. Lots of practice.
So if you don't know what to say, the basic answer is to keep practicing. Your subconscious will eventually figure it out. (Edit: by practice I mean live practice with real people in the world - not on your own in your own head)
As for myself, here's the place I came to: I be myself and I say what I want to say, and for social calibration I rely on my subconscious.
I also let go of trying to control the outcome. The questions you're asking rest atop of wanting the social encounter to go a certain way - you want it to be "successful". Let go of that expectation and just let it organically be whatever it is - that is, take your hands off the driving wheel a bit.
The final bit is a confidence thing - feeling good about yourself, feeling that you have value (your bit about wasting other people's time hints that you somehow feel low on yourself). For that it's the Mike Tyson quote - "success begets confidence and confidence begets success". For me there was a feedback loop where the practice started to feed into social success - people enjoying my company, successful dates with women, and so on.
That final part's a very important ingredient as your subconscious needs the markers of success to latch onto as positive feedback signals on "what works". So basically you have to keep pushing and practicing until you reach the point where you get dividends. As for how long it takes to get there, it varies by individual - some are quick learners, some are slow, some have less handicaps, some have more.
But in principle I believe that most people can learn to be charming and good company.
I usually avoid strangers, because those who talk to you are usually weirdos.
Thing is, if normal people don't talk to strangers anymore, then only the weirdos are left, reinforcing the idea that only weirdos talk to strangers...
+1 In any major city it's probably 90% chance they're either a crook trying to scam you out of something or mentally not quite right. The remaining 10% will be tourists or people from outside of the major city.
This is sad but not inconsistent with my experience. Though I think 10% is actually the people who genuinely want to have a nice conversation. and I think that worth putting up witrh the rest 90% for.
In my experience, only weirdos never speak to strangers. Social skills are easy, conversations are easy and strangers are just people you don’t know yet.
I still can’t understand the point of this. Do you get a charge telling social anxious people they’ll be weird if they do their homework? That’s precisely what you did. Why?
I live in NYC. Maybe this is different in the suburbs. Nearly 100% of the people that approach me are trying to get something from me. Scam me, get me to sign something I don't want to sign, get me to donate my money to save the dogs/children/etc.
If someone on the street tries to talk to me, I try to avoid even looking at them or acknowledging them. They'll use that as an opening. Just keep walking.
Well, that's your experience. Some people live in places where most strangers that talk to you are wierdos. Some of us live in places where most strangers on the street are actually dangerous (and I'm not talking about NYC or any place in America, I'm talking about actual criminal hotspots, which is the reality of a huge portion of humanity you probably don't think about).
One of the best pieces of advice I can give, something that has helped me start talking more with strangers, is this:
When I’m speaking to someone in a service role, like a waiter, a cashier, or a salesperson, I remind myself that I’m just one of hundreds of people they interact with that day. To them, I’m simply another brief interaction. So if I say something awkward or if the conversation doesn’t flow perfectly, it’s not a big deal. It’s probably just one small, forgettable moment in a long series of conversations they will have that day.
Thinking about it that way helps me relax and not put so much pressure on myself. At the same time, some of the most meaningful or unexpected opportunities can come from simple conversations with strangers. You never really know what a small interaction might lead to, whether it is a new connection, a new perspective, or even an open door you did not see before.
When the service worker and you do the back and forth of "How are you doing today" - "Fine, you?" - "Fine"
Yeah don't do that, try out this phrase "It's my Monday" [0] instead of "Fine, you?"
You'll typically have them telling you what day of their work week they are in which is not usually the actual day of the week! Because managers schedule people in service positions in wacky ways.
That little bit of human connection around labor and work, man it does wonders. They know you know what it's like, that you see them as a person, and you care a little bit. Really gets the conversation going if there isn't too much of a line.
[0] Use any day of the week, but do use a weekday. Monday or Friday works best though.
My kids make fun of me because I know the shopkeepers around me by first name, along with the details of their businesses , and that shopping takes forever because I talk to everyone, customers included.
I just love it, it’s easy and I get a lot in return - from perks to incredible encounters. At work it’s been very helpful.
I developed that skill while traveling alone for a year , and it boils down to practicing and reading whether the person you’re talking to is ok with your talking or not.
And now because I know them I go there because I can buy my stuff but also spend five minutes chatting and that makes going grocery shopping a real joy. And because I go there and chat they do nice things like give me a couple of tomatoes or “you’ve got to try this cake” or the wine shop where I automatically get a 15% discount, or the butcher where they let me in when are already closed but they know I’ve come over specially.
And some of those people have become real friends, like go and have dinner together friends. We have very different lives but we get on because we get on. I think everyone benefits from reaching out of their bubble a bit.
If I’m feeling a bit glum I’ll go out to buy bread or something because I know just seeing the people I see regularly will lift me up.
It's interesting, because while having that skill is helpful I think part of the issue a lot of people have is an overturned sense for it - they will be worried they are getting judged for wasting their counterparts time.
It's good to have, but don't let not having it (yet) stop you!
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I do that now and it brings me a lot of joy. Recently while leaving a botanical garden I spoke to a man who was excitedly looking for a few specific plants. He is a botanist (amateur? professional? unclear) and I enjoyed sharing in his passion for a moment. Then I saw a maintenance guy moving with great intention who took a moment to ask me and my family if we had a nice time. We did, and I asked him about the papers in his hand. “Gotta get approval for this purchase request asap.” He said. We talked a bit about how nice it is to work at such a beautiful place.
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
They're basically making fun of people for trying to connect.
I'm in a spot where I don't really bump into strangers much but, as a recovering introvert I've tried to talk to people like this and it feels AMAZING.
Like... irrational levels of amazing vibes.
It's so frustrating seeing my own kids be horrified by it and be hyper-introverted and disdainful of connecting with strangers.
Lessons you learn the hard way -- then fail to pass onto the next generation -- hurt.
I had the same thought. The clueless people turning into their parents are charming and genuine. The life coach guy is kind of a dick.
Reminds me of Apple's "I'm a PC, And I'm a Mac" ads from Apple. I always understood the point they were trying to make, but the PC character was so much more likable than the Mac.
I find it much nicer than talking to friends of friends or the absolute worst for me... the boyfriends of my girlfriends friends. You are getting shoved together into a forced interaction that you know will be asked about in the near future.
But saying "they really need to make these doors automatic, I dropped my coffee here last week!" and helping out if they want it has the EXACT opposite effect. Suddenly, it's not embarrassing any more, and you might have a little convo commiserating about what sucks. It's just a little bit of connection to make someone's day a bit better which is definitely a win-win and good way of breaking the seal on talking to folks.
There's also another more neutral option. Just give them the answer they need without the fluff. If they then want to thank you and chat it's their choice, but completely optional.
This is probably not the right approach most of the time, but it works well on the types of people who seem "serious" (not anxious or upset).
This is a really hard one to pull off. You have to determine that they really are that type of person and then just magically know what they want. It's really satisfying when it works though.
I've met some of the most interesting people I've ever known that way.
Which country are you in?
I'm from a latin country and the norm is that you end up chatting about life the universe and everything with any random people you share a space with for more than one minute.
But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up. I've been in the USA for a long time and as an introverted person I'm mostly ok with that, but whenever I'm back home I realize how much I miss talking to random people.
I remember a random guy was chatting to me in the subway, then I got out, waiting at a crosswalk for the green, in those 15 seconds another guy starts another random conversation. In the first 2 hours of the trip I already had maybe 10 random circumstantial conversations. The whole trip I felt like if I wanted I could always be talking!
This is regional within the US and obviously differs by person even then. Just remember that the people you are talking to may be the kind of people that need articles like the above to teach them how to talk to people. Their defenses go up when someone approaches them and while they are well practiced at appearing relaxed, they are not. Conversations are short because its emotionally difficult to stay in a heightened awareness state while someone is trying to pull you out of it. But you can certainly provide offramps
In the Midwest, if someone starts up a conversation and you don't engage, YOU are the weirdo.
One of their articles though was about “talking to women” but it also emphasized just talking to _anyone_. It had suggestions like “if you’re out at the bar, just ask to sit with a random group, introduce yourself, and have a conversation.”
Many years later in college, I did indeed try this at a bar and was pleasantly surprised. I didn’t make any long term friends, or find a new partner, but I did really start honing the skill of being social with anyone. It’s hard, and especially for me and my social anxiety, it has also really helped me feel more comfortable in places unfamiliar and people unknown.
People need to feel like it's safe to develop relations with you, rather than like you're trying to manipulate them into doing so, which is what happens when you learn only from very hard failures.
The conversation almost always went smoothly and I got the sense my interlocutor was pleasantly surprised to be engaged and had a great time chatting.
But for me it became a chore, rather than a joy. It was “work” like guiding/teaching somebody. The juice was rarely worth the squeeze.
You don't need to do it, but everyone should probably be at least comfortable/confident striking up conversations with people they don't know.
It would be interesting to actually talk to hundreds of people a week for years, you would probably get really good at categorizing people and predicting where they are in life and what their current concerns are.
Well, they're not really tricks, just things I do anyway.
One is that I wear an aloha shirt every day, and I shop at Trader Joe's.
Quite often someone thinks I work there and asks me where to find something. I usually know where things are, and if I don't, I find them someone who actually does work there.
One time the guy restocking the freezer said, "Nice aloha shirt! I bet people sometimes ask you where to find things."
30 seconds later, a lady walked up to me and asked if we carry organic bread. So I walked her over to the bread section and pointed out some organic options. Then back to the freezer section: "You were right!"
Another trick is to take my cat Oakey for a walk in his cat stroller. People see the stroller and expect to see a baby in it, and are surprised to see a cat! Children walking with their parents especially love to see Oakey, and he enjoys the attention.
Sometimes you just have to seize the moment. Last year I was at a friend's company summer picnic. One of her colleagues brought her ten year old son. He was wearing an astronomy T-shirt. They were sitting at another table, and as they got up I asked him, "Are you into astronomy?"
"Yes."
"I have a very important question for you. Pluto is still a planet, right?"
"Yes it is!"
We high-fived and I said, "Welcome to Team Pluto!"
We've seen each other at subsequent company events. It is always fun to hang out with a fellow astronomy enthusiast of any age.
I’ve been here since 2009 and this is one of the loveliest comments I’ve read.
At face value, it may seem ‘duh!’.. but there’s a distinct aesthetic to it that resonated with me.
Perhaps the best analogy I can think of is Asimov’s philosophy about writing.
‘I want the reader to forget they are reading as if my thoughts are being transmitted directly from my brain into theirs’ [sic]
Recently, a research publication demonstrated that an LLM.. nah, not today. Sometimes knowing the underlying theory and deciding to disengage from it and just appreciate the moment is fine.
Because I can go outside my apartment here in Tokyo right now and try it. I already do, but each of us has our own unique loveliness. So I’ll keep trying. Just because.
The exception would be at a bar or similar but outside of that... Yeesh I get terrified even considering it.
It was a much bigger struggle with conversations where I was putting extra pressure on myself. Being able to have those other conversations was helpful though. Eventually, I found a therapist and am in a better place with this.
One antipattern I've encountered with this approach tho is that sometimes anxious people will exhaust their conversation partners with a battery of questions. Even if thoughtful, this can sometimes have the effect of exhausting your partner, and tends to keep the conversation steered away from actual connection. YMMV, but either way be mindful and make it a point to share yourself
How do you deal with that?
> How do you deal with that?
You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want to do.
I considered leaving just that pithy reply, because that's really it. But some of the extra context; It's not a bother to ask someone to hold the door they're already going through because your hands are full. Starting a conversation is about as intrusive as that. The vast majority of people don't mind making some small talk, and ontop of that, the majority can make an excuse if they don't have time. You only assume they can't politely decline, because you can't. Once you learn to say no thanks, politely, but explicitly and directly. You'll actually understand and expect others to return the favor.
That's a much more fair way to interact with people too.
As he put it, it’s a coin toss. Maybe you’re bothering them or maybe they’re grateful to have someone to distract them. Each is equally true before you start the conversation.
The key is being able to read social cues. If you can, you can stop bothering them.
On the contrary, they’re usually very happy to tell you about what they do.
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This is a common mistake many make - please don't be a "mind reader" and make assumptions. Seek clarification. Treat people like adults, and act like adults - you have the right to talk to anyone or ask someone for help. They have the right to be dismissive towards you or say no for whatever personal reason. People have different personalities. Sometimes, even nice people people act differently depending on the day they had and their moods. The point is, if they are strangers, you don't need to attribute any meaning or malice to this. However, always be mindful of social conventions and cultural practices.
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Or other people who are really busy right now, but in general yes, most people enjoy random interactions and talks. And most people do have interesting things to share. You have to have genuine interest, though. Don't force it - but be open for it. Make eye contact first and then you might connect. It is astonishing how many grim looking people suddenly start to smile and act friendly, if you just start a friendly conversation with them. Even if it is just a exchange of a simple comments.
My spouse had a hard time acclimating to rural Midwest life after living in a mega city on the East Coast. She complained that everything takes an extra half hour for time spent standing around talking about nothing.
It never dawned on me that if you're from a place, like a large city, where interacting with strangers or very distant acquaintances isn't encouraged, that this would not be a natural part of life.
I find this interesting but don't know what to do with that.
This is in big part due to being born and raised in a large European capital. There’s unwritten barriers you respect as a social rule, and if someone breaks the rule you assume they’re trying to sell something or scam you. To me talking to a stranger unprompted feels as out of place as pulling my pants down in public.
It’s natural for these barriers to exist to make dense spaces liveable, but they do constrain you.
And also, I really hated the religious mindset with all the little rules they have, the hatred for lgbt people, single parents, foreigners etc. There were good people too but you always had to watch who was around to have a chat. I'm very progressive and atheist. And very alternative.
My ex who was from this community even got in trouble with some parents because she told the kids she was minding that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Apparently it's normal to deny all the progress we have made as a society.
I just couldn't deal with it, it just made me so depressed. And this wasn't even in the US but just in Europe.
In the city it's much easier to find open-minded people. And the ones who aren't don't control public life. I don't ever want to live in a rural area again after that (though in fairness I do have some ptsd from it).
I hope this is not an inappropriate question, but are you by any chance fit and/or attractive? I've heard that and being well dressed affects your experience with people a lot.
For me it's a mix, the majority at least try to be decent and pleasant, no argument there. But as with many other things, the minority who aren't tend to have a much bigger impact. Honestly, I'd take just being safe from violence from people is good enough for me, even that isn't a given.
I did this a few times and it surprisingly worked. I was able to make small talk about an article I was reading. Did it matter that I didn't come off with the confidence of Tony Robbins? No.
Obviously this works only if you are an extrovert. Introverts would find this kind of interaction a wasteful use of limited social energy available to them.
Categorizing yourself in a way that may purposefully stunt your growth and reduce opportunity for growth is a wasteful use of life.
I’ve done what OP describes but I’m heavily introverted and likely HSP too. I’m pretty good at it but it’s incredibly exhausting. My father is exactly the same way.
As I get older, the more I consider self care and prioritising my own needs over others to be happy. To that end, I much prefer to keep to myself and so I do.
However it doesn’t stop me from engaging in impromptu conversations. I just don’t go out of my way to talk to literally everyone.
I don't want or need to talk to everyone, and I generally don't appreciate people I don't know or won't know in five minutes to engage me in idle chatter. Just leave me be.
I'm not a grouch, I'm not a grump, I'll be friendly but why do you have to harass me?
I'm perfectly comfortable in my own skin, doing my own thing, by myself. I don't have social anxiety, I'm not a misanthrope. Just let me be.
Introverts aren't broken. You don't have to impose yourself on everyone else.
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Now, you occasionally end up talking to someone who confesses to you that their post-nuclear dream life is to be a mother figure to a band of semi-aware ghouls. Goofy in the moment, but makes for a great story to share over a beer!
Now traveling with my own family is just exhausting chore and I couldn't care less about stranger sitting next to me, I heard enough stories for whole my life since I traveled a lot.
Recently I traveled with my mother to China and she was excited to talk with some girl next to her on long flight, I didn't find any value gained from such conversation and would rather watch a movie (or outside window is that was an option) and find it harder and harder older I get to see the added value.
I have a note at the beginning of my journal that says: 'Stand up straight, eye contact, smile', because I constantly need to remember that or I will look down, slouch and move through the world barely interacting with anyone.
That just hasn't been my experience.
Sorry but I couldn't help imagining you as the fake health inspector from Fawlty Towers while reading your comment.
I do agree with you though, talking is great, we are social animals even though modern life allows us to forget this, to our own detriment.
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They really are not.
I ask him what he thought of the population crisis Japan is facing. He said said that was bullshit and that 8 billion people in the world are way too many.
And that was when I stopped talking to him.
This could have been an opportunity for both of you to understand each other's perspective. That's why you asked their thoughts on the matter right? It's a shame you let that pass you by.
That's a pretty extreme change!
Yesterday I got stuck with this kind of stranger for 3 hours for work stuff. It was just me and him driving. When he started telling racist jokes and expressed his dissatisfaction with human rights I thought here we go again and went for the unauthentic route. As the conversation rolled he became more easy and personal. Told me about his family, his immigration and less nice parts of his life. I felt compassion and it really feels like we ended up being more connected than the beginning.
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I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
It served her very well in her chosen career of real estate sales, although I think she'd might have done really well in community organizing or even politics where those skills are also very useful.
On the flip side, it was sometimes difficult to be there as family wanting some attention, since her bright light was always shining in many directions.
I've inherited just some of that talent, and I think it is a talent, but trainable.
I miss her already.
I love this story, because I had the same experience. When my dad passed, I had the same 500 email limitation, and had to send out multiple waves of emails through Gmail. He was loved by so many people!
It is fascinating to be around such social people. I still remember my great-uncle as a kid. He lived a very simple live as a rural farmer in Germany. He did not have a wife, and he didn‘t have kids, but he had a deep tie to his family and everyone around him. When he passed away during my teens, there were hundreds of people attending his funeral. I was amazed by the impact he must have had on all their lives given they‘ve taken time out of their day to give him a last farewell.
I also notice the generational gap the author of this article highlights. My parents are in their 50s, my brother and I are in our mid 20s.
My parents still have their friends from school, from their apprenticeships and different times of their lives. We can‘t go anywhere in a 100km radius without my dad knowing someone. In school I literally had bus drivers ask me if I am <dad‘s name> son, not because they heard my name, but because we look so much alike.
When looking into my brothers and my life, most of our friends from school left for far away. Things my parents considered normal back in their days, are now considered weird. While my parents still experience an incredibly supportive circle of friends, I would not know who to invite to my hypothetical wedding tomorrow.
Granted, I may be an extreme example. But even when looking more generalized among my peers, most of the friendships we have seem to be significantly more superficial and also fewer than our parents.
A few shopkeepers waved through their windows as I went past, the greengrocer came out of his shop to have a quick chat, the dry cleaner asked after my dog, and the guy from the household shop told me they have more of the cleaning paste I use. We bumped into a couple of folk I see every couple of weeks, then got a coffee and I paid the “special” rate rather than the rate on the sign that they charge people they don’t know.
My colleague said - half jokingly - “I didn’t realise you were mayor”, and tried to convince me that I should go into local politics. She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
I can’t imagine not talking to people. A while back I changed the route I take when I walk my dogs each day, and the guy who runs the local fish stall started asking people if I had left the area or died. I don’t buy fish from him each week- but every time I see him stop and we have a chat.
I feel incredibly lucky to be missed by my fishmonger just because I started walking my dogs a different route.
I grew up in a tiny village in the country. The building I live in has hundreds of people living in it, compared to the few dozen houses where I grew up. I think talking to people makes a huge city feel smaller.
How do you know what to say? How do you make the conversation flow and not end awkwardly?
Think of it this way. Everyone's favorite topic is themselves. Give someone an opportunity to talk about themselves and most people will take it. The nuance that takes practice is not peppering the person with questions. Ask, give them time to respond, and then maybe say something from your own day and ask a follow up to something they said. That way you keep them doing most of the talking, but it's not an interrogation.
As for the awkward part, embrace it! I can be super awkward so I just run towards it. "Ending a random convo is always awkward for me, so I'll just say it was nice to chat and maybe chat again sometime." Usually there's a chuckle and done.
If I'm getting a coffee if the barista says "How are you?" Rather than just saying something non-committal I'll say "I'm good thanks, it looks like you're having a busy day/quiet day - has it been like this all day?" or I'll ask a question about the beans (if it's the sort of place they regularly rotate through different beans) or I'll ask what the music that's playing is, or something like that. You can immediately tell if someone wants to continue the conversation. And obviously, if it's busy I won't try to engage them in a longer conversation unless they seem to want to.
If I'm waiting for a bus or a train asking someone "Do you know if this one goes to....{destination}?" is an easy start - obviously, even if you know it does, and you want to talk to someone, it's a good start. And then you can say "Thanks, that's really helpful, I'm going to {destination} so that I can {do a thing}. How about you - are you going anywhere nice today?"
The key thing is knowing whether someone is open to a longer conversation. That's something you can only learn by pushing through the awkwardness of people shutting you down and turning away, or making it clear they don't want to talk.
But when they do, it's almost always very enjoyable, even if it's only a few minutes.
It's amazing the difference you'll find if you go to the same shops/places regularly and make the effort to exchange a genuine human interaction with the people you meet - they remember you, and they make an effort to do things to please you. That's not why I do it, it's a positive consequence.
I think the biggest thing is to have the conversations with people with no agenda. You're not trying to achieve something, you're just exchanging a pleasant interaction with someone, and hopefully you both leave feeling a little more connected to the world.
And always ending by saying something like "Well, it was nice talking to you! See you around!/have a lovely day/something".
If you can leave people feeling like you liked the interaction, you'll gradually feel like the interactions are pleasant.
You don't need something big to say.
And having dogs helps a LOT.
Only if you let it! I am guessing you would do well, because people can absolutely tell when you are being a smarmy politician and when you're actually a legitimately friendly, decent person.
It doesn't have to and I suspect that's why your colleague suggested it. Politicians act that way because that's what people want except they don't want someone who is acting.
You have what politicians pretend to have because it makes people like them.
You might be a terrible politician for other reasons but I don't think what you've said is true.
It doesn't take the pleasure out of it, it doesn't make it transactional. It just gives them incredible job fulfillment, at least in that part of it.
Bill Clinton was famous for this. It was incredibly frustrating to his staff because he was constantly late for his next event, because he always wanted to keep talking to the people he'd just met. They'd have to build in buffer time to plan around it, because otherwise it wound up disrupting his schedule and logistics too much.
I’m trying to picture the random people I encounter while walking my dog, for example. Neighbors who I don’t know. That’d be a great place to start up a convo as I walk by but I draw a complete blank.
0 skill in this.
"oh it's such a nice day innit? It's a shame the lizard people won bingo but we'll get them next time eh?"
Be silly, get a laugh, and hopefully things unfold from there. Give a compliment! Or share something you're excited about. Imo Self-disclosure is the simplest route towards spurring conversation.
Think of conversation as a medium through which gifts are given. Through giving gifts, bonds are forged.
1. Talk about them. Start by paying attention to them. Then when you notice something that was clearly an intentional choice on their part, say something nice about it. Listen carefully to what they say, and follow up in response without filtering yourself.
2. Talk about us. Notice some aspect of experience that you are both sharing. The weather is the most popular and safest topic.
Honestly, in the least combative & confrontational possible, your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and engage with the rest of your world. It's a little sad (not you, the situation itself) because if more people had that same thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with no one talking to each other and those people you allude to being an afraid to talk too for whatever reason become the only people out there talking. We're certainly not there yet and I hope we never get there
In my typical day at work (teacher), I spend hours talking with dozens of people. A large part of why I chose this work was to escape the isolation that I felt previously when I was doing remote software work. I attend weekly religious services and make an effort to stay for the social hour afterwards. When I go to parties, I don't feel like I have an unusually hard time talking with people. I'm not always as engaged with the world as I'd like, but I don't feel that I'm avoiding it either.
But this article isn't broadly about having conversations with new people: it's about approaching strangers in public settings one-on-one (the article mentions a bus stop, the street, and a mostly empty train carriage), where there's no expectation of social interaction. This is a different situation with its own set of pitfalls. Nobody is going to assume that I'm trying to rob them when I introduce myself at Quaker meeting. No one is going to think I'm a creep for asking a student about their hobbies while I'm at school. We don't see articles about people getting shot for starting up a conversation at a party.
But all of that goes out the window in the settings that the author describes. It's funny, the author mentions feeling like it was "rude and unsafe" to start a chat during the pandemic. I felt like talking to strangers in public got much easier during the pandemic, when people were desperate for any sort of in-person conversation. It's the normal times when this sort of interaction feels rude and unsafe.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic, maybe it would be fine for me to let my guard down a little. I think that loneliness is a huge issue these days and I'm grateful for the efforts people are making (including the author of the article) to address it. But approaching strangers in public in the way the author describes is a special case that is *much* more fraught than other types of social interaction, and is a lot harder for certain people to do successfully. I wish it weren't that way, and maybe it's worth pushing back against, but that doesn't change the current reality. Some people might not feel this way, but they're probably the people for whom it's not true.
My thoughts are formed from personal experience. You get a few experiences and you get the hint.
When I dye my hair all kinds of colors, random people talk to me (and the specific colors even dictate who talks). When I dress up in a suit, people treat me more seriously. When I dress like a contractor and drive my truck, regular dudes talk to me at gas stations. And when I dress queer, women (and some dudes) smile at me.
I'm not even outgoing personality-wise, which would help more. Personality's the mental equivalent of physical appearance. Think of it like acting: actors pretend to be a certain way, and if it feels genuine, it makes us love or hate them, intrigued or bored. It's a lot more work than changing clothes, but it works no matter what you wear.
It makes sense: people love dogs. It gives us something in common and is a starting point for conversation. And people with cute dogs seem much less threatening.
But I also kind of resent it. I wish people would want to talk to me when I'm just me.
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I see what you're getting at, but also this take kinda annoys me because it falls into the bucket of implying a personal fault. If people don't socialise with you then it must be because you do or don't do X, Y, Z. "Just do X" and you'll become a social butterfly.
Based on my personal experience, I don't know if I buy it. I guess I'm a regular enough guy, but seriously almost never, across my whole life, does someone invoke random socialisation with me. Yet I know people who can't even take the bus without strangers striking up conversations and hassling them, while they are actively trying to be antisocial. What magic trick are these people performing? Can I learn the same trick? What if I don't want to perform it? I think the reality is that for some (many?) people, it just doesn't work out and it's not necessarily due to any particular flaw.
That's why I gotta pick my venues. But those venues are shrinking and growing farther apart.
The main ingredient, at least for me, was being determined enough to push through the discomfort. A lot of the early interactions were awkward, sometimes overtly uncomfortable, but that's an unavoidable part of the learning process (and I took a key lesson from it - it's okay to look like a dork, usually it's only our inner critic that turns it into an immortal sin).
Nowadays I feel a pang of sympathy when I see someone feeling shy or speaking in self-deprecating terms. I remember how that felt, and I remember how easy it would have been to have stayed inside that box for the rest of my life.
Glad I didn't.
How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the conversation but I don’t know where to take it after. How are you able to shift to the next stage when you have both agreed that the weather today is nice.
How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time?
Finally, how do you end the conversation when you're still going in the same direction or waiting at the same place?
>How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time? First, hold up a mirror: do you feel your time is wasted when someone talks to you? Second, everyone benefits from bonds and talking enables trust. Even if the relationship is temporary, it brings comfort. Think of two people at an airport going out on different planes. Even a short conversation with someone makes them trust enough to let the other watch their heavy luggage while they go to the bathroom.
>Finally, how do you end the conversation when you're still going in the same direction or waiting at the same place? Yeah, this is always a little awkward. You can just say something like “It’s been nice talking to you. I’m going to go back to reading my book.” Sometimes I’ll make a polite fib like saying I’ve got to think about an important presentation or have some pressing emails that I need to read.
You don't know what to say. That's fine.
You might be wasting their time. That's fine.
You might not know how to end the conversation. That's fine.
It's ok to be awkward. It's ok to be honest. It's ok to bother people as long as you take their feedback appropriately. It's ok to walk away without saying anything.
The more often that you talk to people and actively reflect on the REAL outcomes of it, the sooner you'll realize those concerns aren't shared by most other people.
That gives them a chance to take a break and think. If they say three, you put yourself in their shoes. "Hey, that sucks. what's going on?" just lending a warm comforting subtle "I'm around right now if you want to talk"
If they give you a higher number, inquire why. "Wow, a 7? That's great. How come?" Both results in giving them option to speak. You compliment in both situations, a win win. If they return with a single closing statement acknowledge it and move on, "all the best".
If you need to end, a simple of "hey, it was great talking. I've got my coffee it was a pleasure talking to you while I waited, I've got to take off but it was a pleasure to talk".
You cater it to the situation you're in. If they want to talk then they will, if they don't then they won't.
Note, rather, how friends converse and how little scripting is involved. When two good friends meet they don’t say their profession, or academic rank, or ask interrogatory questions. They exchange enthusiasm for each others presence and the conversation tends towards exchanges of perspective/experience and reflection thereof. Statement, vibes, counter-statement(?), more vibes.
That kind of familiar, friendly, approach to conversation is always available and short circuits the scripts. It efficiently probes for people who want to talk and what they want to talk about. It also tends to involve a lot of dumb-yet-charming assertions about the current situation, which takes awareness not planning. A ‘sense’ of humour, not a tight 5 locked and loaded. “Fuck, now that’s a lineup…” isn’t a refined piece of social engineering, but it’s a serviceable conversation starter and the least important part if you’re still talking three hours later.
If they are open to small talk, they will drop some tidbits that you can spring off on. Conversation is a two way street. If they don't seem interested in keeping the conversation going, tell them to have a nice day and carry on with yours.
So if you don't know what to say, the basic answer is to keep practicing. Your subconscious will eventually figure it out. (Edit: by practice I mean live practice with real people in the world - not on your own in your own head)
As for myself, here's the place I came to: I be myself and I say what I want to say, and for social calibration I rely on my subconscious.
I also let go of trying to control the outcome. The questions you're asking rest atop of wanting the social encounter to go a certain way - you want it to be "successful". Let go of that expectation and just let it organically be whatever it is - that is, take your hands off the driving wheel a bit.
The final bit is a confidence thing - feeling good about yourself, feeling that you have value (your bit about wasting other people's time hints that you somehow feel low on yourself). For that it's the Mike Tyson quote - "success begets confidence and confidence begets success". For me there was a feedback loop where the practice started to feed into social success - people enjoying my company, successful dates with women, and so on.
That final part's a very important ingredient as your subconscious needs the markers of success to latch onto as positive feedback signals on "what works". So basically you have to keep pushing and practicing until you reach the point where you get dividends. As for how long it takes to get there, it varies by individual - some are quick learners, some are slow, some have less handicaps, some have more.
But in principle I believe that most people can learn to be charming and good company.
Thing is, if normal people don't talk to strangers anymore, then only the weirdos are left, reinforcing the idea that only weirdos talk to strangers...
Nobody wants randos coming up to them and asking for something.
Most people would be less lonely if everyone had more practice at making non-transactional conversation.
Actively avoiding conversation still qualifies as "weirdo" behavior to most people.
Are you willfully ignoring people at bars, night clubs, supermarkets, etc?
It's obvious 99% of the time whether or not the conversation is in the wrong place and wrong time.
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I still can’t understand the point of this. Do you get a charge telling social anxious people they’ll be weird if they do their homework? That’s precisely what you did. Why?
If someone on the street tries to talk to me, I try to avoid even looking at them or acknowledging them. They'll use that as an opening. Just keep walking.
When I’m speaking to someone in a service role, like a waiter, a cashier, or a salesperson, I remind myself that I’m just one of hundreds of people they interact with that day. To them, I’m simply another brief interaction. So if I say something awkward or if the conversation doesn’t flow perfectly, it’s not a big deal. It’s probably just one small, forgettable moment in a long series of conversations they will have that day.
Thinking about it that way helps me relax and not put so much pressure on myself. At the same time, some of the most meaningful or unexpected opportunities can come from simple conversations with strangers. You never really know what a small interaction might lead to, whether it is a new connection, a new perspective, or even an open door you did not see before.
When the service worker and you do the back and forth of "How are you doing today" - "Fine, you?" - "Fine"
Yeah don't do that, try out this phrase "It's my Monday" [0] instead of "Fine, you?"
You'll typically have them telling you what day of their work week they are in which is not usually the actual day of the week! Because managers schedule people in service positions in wacky ways.
That little bit of human connection around labor and work, man it does wonders. They know you know what it's like, that you see them as a person, and you care a little bit. Really gets the conversation going if there isn't too much of a line.
[0] Use any day of the week, but do use a weekday. Monday or Friday works best though.
I just love it, it’s easy and I get a lot in return - from perks to incredible encounters. At work it’s been very helpful.
I developed that skill while traveling alone for a year , and it boils down to practicing and reading whether the person you’re talking to is ok with your talking or not.
In any case, it makes me immensely happy.
And now because I know them I go there because I can buy my stuff but also spend five minutes chatting and that makes going grocery shopping a real joy. And because I go there and chat they do nice things like give me a couple of tomatoes or “you’ve got to try this cake” or the wine shop where I automatically get a 15% discount, or the butcher where they let me in when are already closed but they know I’ve come over specially.
And some of those people have become real friends, like go and have dinner together friends. We have very different lives but we get on because we get on. I think everyone benefits from reaching out of their bubble a bit.
If I’m feeling a bit glum I’ll go out to buy bread or something because I know just seeing the people I see regularly will lift me up.
It's good to have, but don't let not having it (yet) stop you!