Hopefully AOSP Pixel device support is merely delayed, not ended, since Pixel is the only way to get Debian Linux ("Terminal") VM + desktop mode support, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43973395.
With Apple's ongoing refusal to enable VM/JIT support on iOS and iPad, Google Pixel + GrapheneOS + Debian is a very competitive 2025 offering.
This is my biggest iPad gripe. I understand the security, but just make it a new "entitlement" that is only given to UTM, Parallels and VMWare fusion.
Or make it a "developer mode" that you can only enable if you pay $99 a year. I'd be fine with that, but the whole iPad is unusable for any kind of software development and I'd love to be able to travel with just an iPad because for everything else I do while I'm traveling (watching videos, reading, browsing, writing, drawing) the iPad is great and I don't have to lug two devices around.
It's not about security. Apple doesn't want to open on external applications, including the one run in VM/emulators, because it wants every software to pass from the AppStore. Not because security, but for the fee it has on app store purchases.
If it opens to having VM, you could just run another OS in a VM (Windows, for example) and install normal software on it (like the desktop version of most programs) and not pay the AppStore fee.
It's only a commercial reason, not a security one.
If it was really about security (in the sense of that which benefits the end user) they'd just stick it behind a toggle and be done with it. I just think it's important to call out the misalignment - security can refer to the interests of the end user, or alternatively to the vendor. The ambiguity is convenient for PR statements.
Can’t you already do that? If you pay 99/year you can sign your own apps with whatever entitlements no? You just can’t submit them to the Apple Store for obvious reasons
After years of being stuck with iPhones I'm also eager to soon switch back to Android. iOS always just felt like a polished compromise. Have been a happy customer of LOS using OnePlus devices. But LOS always also seemed a little opaque and casual. Hence I set my eyes on GrapheneOS and in consequence on a device from the Pixel lineup.
In an alternate universe, trade war and rare earth minerals shortage halts manufacturing of new iPhones, operating system updates become paid products and existing iPhones must implement the secure launch protocol that Asahi Linux uses on Apple Silicon, enabling AOSP for iPhones.
> Apple has dropped the ball so badly that Sky is like a perfect storm of what they could have done, but didn’t. And now, not only is it a third-party app that is doing what Apple should have done, but it is also doing it in a better way that anything they ever shipped.
Wait what? This is a screenshot of 9 short lines of text from the Reddit image server. What is actually going on? Android source is still Apache licensed right? How are these things becoming closed source? What is happening?
As far as I understand this only concerns Google Pixel devices, and AOSP "coming to an end" is mostly speculation. Is this going to affect other manufacturers too, e.g. the Fairphone[1]?
How does the firmware upgrade cycle looks like? Does their secure element securely throttle pin brute force? Does their hardware offer modern memory protection?
From the Android VPN and GM:
"We're seeing some speculation that AOSP is being discontinued. To be clear, AOSP is NOT going away. AOSP was built on the foundation of being an open platform for device implementations, SoC vendors, and instruction set architectures.
AOSP needs a reference target that is flexible, configurable, and affordable – independent of any particular hardware, including those from Google. For years, developers have been building Cuttlefish (available on GitHub as the reference device for AOSP) and GSI targets from source. We continue to make those available for testing and development purposes."
Ready-made AOSP device trees for Pixels, which are needed to build custom ROMs, are the ones going away. This is a blow to GrapheneOS as they have been dedicating 100% of their time to improving their ROM itself in the past few years.
Since at this point they'll need to create device trees like LineageOS does with Snapdragon/MTK phones, so I hope they won't stick with the worst Android manufacturer on Earth.
Especially now that the snapdragon 8 elite 2 will have the same security features as the Tensors.
Never mind, it seems like they're thinking of wasting their time with a custom ODM-built smartphone. I truly hope they won't choose this route. If they do someone should add "Will the GrapheneOS-Phone fail?" on Polymarket, I'll bet my parents' house on it.
Reading between the lines tells me they're discontinuing Pixel AOSP support which is a pretty big blow with zero warning to those who used them as de facto reference models.
Pixel device trees and other code used to adapt the AOSP release to specific (Made by) Google hardware was not released in a big change from precedent. Without the Pixel hardware repos (which include the device trees, driver binaries, and more), custom Android ROMs will have a hard time developing their OS updates. This might also have implications for security (vulnerability) researchers.
Some large organizations buy Pixel hardware for security properties and an ecosystem with multiple teams testing and contributing upstream. Their procurement teams may have opinions on this change.
This is my take, too. I'm surprised by all the skepticism here, it looks to me like another case of techies not being able to see the wood for the trees.
These companies believe that AI puts them in an existential battle for survival. They're battening down the hatches. Concepts like open source and community collaboration can only look like unaffordable luxuries in such a context. Quaint, even.
IMO the last remaining hope for free software is going to be an entirely separate hardware-OS ecosystem, plus funding and lobbying to ensure that the web platform remains competitive.
Indeed. Also remember that android supports multiple form factors and pixel at best served as. reference only for phones. Auto, watches, and tablets were ill served. Cuttlefish, the replacement, works for all form factors.
sad, was thinking to switch from iPhone to pixel 10 in few months once released exactly for the reason that is clean android and gives and escape hatch to use grapheneOS or lineageOS or calysOS. Any other android phone manufacturer that is supported by any of those projects? Most devices supported except pixel devices are few years old.
I'm moving away from Pixel Phones for my next Android. Going to switch back to Samsung. I currently have a Pixel 8 and my screen went completely green and glitchy yesterday (Google "android green screen", it's a hardware issue). It freaked me out because Im in the beginning of a long vacation with tickets held digitally in various apps and email. Thankfully I eventually figured out the solution which is ridiculous, when it happens again I just need to squeeze the bottom of my phone. My last Pixel phone just completely died on me randomly as I unplugged it from my car. And I've had previous Pixel phones just ignore calls, sending them straight to voicemail (which is a common issue if you Google that as well).
I will miss having stock android and timely updates, I will hate Samsung bloatware and apps I can't uninstall, but it's I hope to have more stability and longer life for my phones. In barely getting 2 years of life from my Pixels. I'm also seriously considering iPhones as well.
You need to manage your expectations with Pixel devices. They are often on sale. Buy the A series for ~$300, which is also what the Nexus phones used to be priced at. They easily last 3+ years, and if they die after that it's no big deal. Dying early, bootlooping, overheating, etc. have been a part of these devices since they have existed.
The green screen issue is covered by warranty, so get your display swapped at an official repair store. The new ones don't have the green screen issue.
Fwiw, I've had a similar screen issue (turned green or magenta and glitchy, parts of the screen image disappearing, until one day it turned black) happen with two Samsung phones.
> Most devices supported except pixel devices are few years old.
That pretty much sums it up, there's a reason all of those custom ROMs pivoted to supporting basically just Pixels. Apart from Pixels, your only options are Fairphone and a few years old Chinese models (Xiaomi, Motorola, OnePlus), none of which are even close to state-of-the-art hardware.
Custom ROMs are pretty much dead, this just might be the final nail in their coffin.
I tried to switch from iPhone to Pixel and switched back. Modern Pixel is absolutely not clean android. It's a mess of misfeatures. There's no clean android. iPhone is lean and compact compared to Android. GrapheneOS is solid, but built by security freaks, so unless you're a fan of OpenBSD, it makes little sense to use it. And any custom ROM locks you out of many important apps, like banks apps, NFC payments, etc (unless you want to actively combat integrity system).
GrapheneOS only supports Pixels due to their having superior security features [0]. Calyx supports Pixels as well as some newer Motos and the Fairphone 4 and 5 [1]. Lineage supports tons of devices [2].
LineageOS is the only one of the three that supports older hardware, but I'd recommend getting a previous-gen Pixel for the seven-year (at least) support cycle.
I don't get the motivation behind this RedHatification. Hasn't Google already won in the Android space ? Nobody that matters is forking or using AOSP without Google's blessings anyway due to the stranglehold of Google Play Services. Why the sudden dick move ? I see some mention of the impending antitrust cases, but I don't quite see how that fits.
Readit News
With Apple's ongoing refusal to enable VM/JIT support on iOS and iPad, Google Pixel + GrapheneOS + Debian is a very competitive 2025 offering.
If it opens to having VM, you could just run another OS in a VM (Windows, for example) and install normal software on it (like the desktop version of most programs) and not pay the AppStore fee.
It's only a commercial reason, not a security one.
https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2025/06/03/2155
> Apple has dropped the ball so badly that Sky is like a perfect storm of what they could have done, but didn’t. And now, not only is it a third-party app that is doing what Apple should have done, but it is also doing it in a better way that anything they ever shipped.
My Librem 5 also offers the desktop mode, since it just runs a desktop OS based on Debian (PureOS).
[1] https://www.fairphone.com
From the Android VPN and GM: "We're seeing some speculation that AOSP is being discontinued. To be clear, AOSP is NOT going away. AOSP was built on the foundation of being an open platform for device implementations, SoC vendors, and instruction set architectures.
AOSP needs a reference target that is flexible, configurable, and affordable – independent of any particular hardware, including those from Google. For years, developers have been building Cuttlefish (available on GitHub as the reference device for AOSP) and GSI targets from source. We continue to make those available for testing and development purposes."
https://x.com/seangchau/status/1933029688202703062
Since at this point they'll need to create device trees like LineageOS does with Snapdragon/MTK phones, so I hope they won't stick with the worst Android manufacturer on Earth. Especially now that the snapdragon 8 elite 2 will have the same security features as the Tensors.
https://9to5google.com/2025/06/12/android-open-source-projec...
That said, first rule of predictions, don't provide a time frame.
These companies believe that AI puts them in an existential battle for survival. They're battening down the hatches. Concepts like open source and community collaboration can only look like unaffordable luxuries in such a context. Quaint, even.
IMO the last remaining hope for free software is going to be an entirely separate hardware-OS ecosystem, plus funding and lobbying to ensure that the web platform remains competitive.
I will miss having stock android and timely updates, I will hate Samsung bloatware and apps I can't uninstall, but it's I hope to have more stability and longer life for my phones. In barely getting 2 years of life from my Pixels. I'm also seriously considering iPhones as well.
That pretty much sums it up, there's a reason all of those custom ROMs pivoted to supporting basically just Pixels. Apart from Pixels, your only options are Fairphone and a few years old Chinese models (Xiaomi, Motorola, OnePlus), none of which are even close to state-of-the-art hardware.
Custom ROMs are pretty much dead, this just might be the final nail in their coffin.
Well, Pixel is arguably pretty shitty hardware as well
I've had no trouble with banks, brokers or payment networks on GrapheneOS but I don't use crap like company-X pay wallets..
"OpenBSD"
"Locks you out of many important apps ... (Unless you want to combat integrity system)"
When did you try to switch?
LineageOS is the only one of the three that supports older hardware, but I'd recommend getting a previous-gen Pixel for the seven-year (at least) support cycle.
[0] https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
[1] https://calyxos.org/docs/guide/device-support/
[2] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114661914197695338
What about Amazon's tablets?