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Posted by u/erohead 7 months ago
We're bringing Pebble backrepebble.com/...
Thank you, Google. You didn't have to, but you did. We (the Pebble team and community) are extraordinarily grateful.

I wrote a blog post about our plans to bring Pebble back, sustainably. https://ericmigi.com/blog/why-were-bringing-pebble-back

We got our original start on HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3827868), it's a pleasure to be back.

tomaskafka · 7 months ago
Awesome! The first Pebble absolutely fascinated me by having a hackable, C-running watch on my wrist.

I vividly remember spending days fine tuning the heuristics of a simple step detection algorithm in the first watchface where I thought “seeing your daily step count next to time sure is awesome”. And later, tens of thousands of people thought so as well - this was one of the signs what the health-tracking wrist device is about to become.

It was incredible that even the first model allowed you to run a 30 samples per second accelerometer sampling and classifying the movement, 24/7, and still lasted days. No other watch offers a similar level of hackability.

And as the time progressed, Pebble became the first platform to get Weathergraph - my graphical weather watchface.

Weathergraph was then ported to Garmin (as Pebble shut down), and then to Apple Watch widget (as it became a capable platform with the introduction of standalone watch-apps in watchOS 6), and then to iOS app & widget, where it now lets me live a life of indie developer, after a serie of corporate design/PM/dev jobs.

Thank you for that, Eric & Pebble team.

I still keep the developer edition Pebble with my name printed on the back (great touch!) in my shelf and heart, and will always remember Jon Barlow, one of the best and most helpful developer advocates I ever encountered.

And kudos to the whole dev team. The watch and companion app was rock stable, always staying connected, the calendar always being in sync, watch apps installed quickly and reliably - the things that 10x larger companies struggled with for years were nailed here almost from day one.

Godspeed!

PS: What a mishap to shut the company down shortly after a release of Pebble 2. It nailed the experience of a lightweight watch, with the most contrasty BW reflective screen I have seen, and buttery smooth animations (while Garmin still renders menus in like 8-10 fps on their MIP screens 10 years later). So small and lightweight, I’d love everyone to try it on, and compare with 2024 smartwatches.

brokenengineer · 7 months ago
> And as the time progressed, Pebble became the first platform to get Weathergraph - my graphical weather watchface.

> Weathergraph was then ported to Garmin (as Pebble shut down), and then to Apple Watch widget

Thanks for bringing Weathergraph to life. I found it on the Pebble and used it religiously until I experienced enough challenges with Rebble to switch to a Garmin watch. I was thoroughly chuffed when I saw that you had brought Weathergraph along with you.

Are you saying I'd have to get an Apple Watch to get the third-generation Weathergraph? ;-)

ilrwbwrkhv · 7 months ago
Indeed, I forgive Google about 40 of their killed projects for giving us pebble in return.
eitland · 7 months ago
Forgiven, yes, but I still cannot trust them.

A decade of messing with my search results (they only cannot do that anymore since I switched to Kagi) and the killing of Google+ (still interested if anyone have alternatives. Despite its problematic start it became the only social network I ever enjoyed).

akho · 7 months ago
not the reader though
thebruce87m · 7 months ago
What happens when they kill it again?
hinkley · 7 months ago
40 down, 400 to go.
jakecopp · 7 months ago
> Weathergraph was then ported to Garmin (as Pebble shut down), and then to Apple Watch widget

I don't think I was a particularly early user of Weathergraph - but when I finally had to retire my Pebble Time I only considered platforms that had your watchface.

Thanks very much for the attention to detail!

tomaskafka · 7 months ago
Thank you!
smvanbru · 7 months ago
I loved weathergraph. Was my favourite watch face on my pebble and garmin, until my eyes got too old and I couldn't read the smaller text anymore. Now I use a watch face for older guys like me, but miss the graph.
tomaskafka · 7 months ago
Thank you! I'm sorry - it's tricky to put in all the data, plus the Garmin app is now hard to maintain as it ran into a memory limit on older watches (they are very tight + a need to cache a large chart), and much of code simplicity has been sacrificed to make it run. I should probably try a re-do as newer watches and language features remove a lot of constraints.
iglio · 7 months ago
Hi Tom, I just tried to donate on https://weathergraph.app/garmin, but was met with an error in your paypal integration. I've sent you a support email.
tomaskafka · 7 months ago
Thank you, replying!
angristan · 7 months ago
Weathergraph is the best weather app I've ever used, thank you so much for it!
tomaskafka · 7 months ago
Thank you! I hope to keep it that way :).
hinkley · 7 months ago
There was a post here a couple weeks ago about smart phones with a very fancy reflective display and I immediately thought how good that would be on something like a pebble.
mrinterweb · 7 months ago
I noticed my mouth had been hanging agape for a while while reading this. This is huge news. I feel like Pebble is the smartwatch that got it right the first time. So many smartwatches try to replace the phone instead of being an extension of the phone. Pebble seemed to better understand what is important than most smartwatches by being the extension of the phone, a focus on battery life and always on displays.
Vampiero · 7 months ago
I literally just bought a LTE watch because I hate phones, I never use mine, and I keep forgetting it anyway. I'd rather have a watch with an eSIM
amelius · 7 months ago
I would do this too, but in some venues you have to pay by scanning QR codes, which makes it impossible without camera.

And I don't want this:

https://wristcam.com/blogs/learn/do-apple-watches-have-camer...

nejsjsjsbsb · 7 months ago
Would you wear a Pebble too?
insane_dreamer · 7 months ago
The Withings ScanWatch was the right fit for me. Unfortunately the HR sensor stopped working recently and the water resistant seal broke, and it's out of warranty, so it's in a drawer. But IMO that was the right idea: analog time, discrete notifications, ppg/ekg sensors, 2-week battery life.
morsch · 7 months ago
I like my Fossil watch. Similar to Withings, less health features, marginally smarter. Analog watchface in front of an eink display, 3-4 weeks battery life. Of course they got discontinued as well.
sureglymop · 7 months ago
I love my Withings watch but I wish I didn't have to use their app and could instead get the data directly. I tried to reverse engineer their bluetooth based protocol in the past but didn't get far because I don't have much experience with bluetooth.

I then looked at what http requests their app makes which was more straightforward and actually interesting but still not what I wanted... I hope I will find the time to try again soon.

ost-ing · 7 months ago
I have one, I use it nearly every day, battery can last upward of a whole month. They stopped updating the original model though which is frustrating because newer models have more features, but im almost certain the hardware is virtually identical.

I would like more transparency on how long each device gets updates for, similar to how Apple handles their products.

lopis · 7 months ago
I don't like analog watches. I wish there was a watch like the basic casio I use but smart, but not huge and rugged like a G-Shock. If pebble releases a modern version of their watch, I might finally buy a smartwatch.
swiftcoder · 7 months ago
I really like the Withings, but I've killed two of them in about a year each (shattered the face on one, failed seal leading to water ingress on the other). Meanwhile I have a draw full of older watches/smartwatches that are all in perfect working order, so this feels like build/QC problems specifically on their end.
Cadwhisker · 7 months ago
I prefer technology that hides from view, so the Withings watches suit me as well.

The biggest downside is that the battery does not seem to be user-replaceable, so the 1 month of run-time I used to get slowly fades down to about a week or two after a couple of years of use. I can't go away for more than a week now without bringing the charger.

abcd_f · 7 months ago
The idea is nice. The implementation is a bit gaudy design-wise (subjective, granted) and flakey on the hardware side, with the HR sensor accuracy being the main issue.
averageRoyalty · 7 months ago
I loved my scanwatch, but it lacked the feature set of any smart watch for fitness tracking. I hope daily for them to release an improved version.
andrewblossom · 7 months ago
Have you reached out to them? I've found their customer support even for out-of-warranty items to be fantastic.

Deleted Comment

gonzo41 · 7 months ago
You should have a look at he Garmin instinct 2x. They've nailed it.
abraxas · 7 months ago
Bah! They nailed what exactly? It's so mofing complex to use I hurled it at a wall (literally) and then gave it away to my son. A $600 CAD watch that I could not stand to use without seething.
Steltek · 7 months ago
I have a Garmin Instinct 2. They definitely did not nail it. It's horrible in all respects. It's HUGE, physically painful to use, and the UI must have been written by 10 different teams who weren't talking to each other.
xyst · 7 months ago
The Apple Watch Ultra has worked wonders for me in terms of battery life and “always on display”.

My only wish is for an easily serviceable battery.

swiftcoder · 7 months ago
> The Apple Watch Ultra has worked wonders for me in terms of battery life

It's not really playing in the same ballpark, though, is it?

48 hours of battery life is indeed very good for an Apple Watch, but I used to charge my Pebble maybe once a week, and my Withings Scanwatch about once every 3 weeks...

shinycode · 7 months ago
And not that expensive :(
djur · 7 months ago
The Fitbit watches are the closest thing I've gotten to a Pebble (and I'd be wearing a fitness tracker anyway), but they're way more locked down.
dariosalvi78 · 7 months ago
BangleJs is totally hackable
amatecha · 7 months ago
Pretty sure I yelled something like "yoooo no way!!" :D too awesome.
vermarish · 7 months ago
I love the animation when you click "No" on "Do you want a new Pebble?". So extra.
ctkhn · 7 months ago
Gotta be honest I feel like Garmin is the perfect balance of pebble vs apple watch
seanhunter · 7 months ago
Garmin is the perfect solution if you want a smart watch with a gps that takes 5mins to possibly sync 50% of the time and a touchscreen-only interface that doesn’t work if it gets wet or say sweaty. Ie during most of the activities it’s supposedly designed for.

When I got a garmin smartwatch I was astounded by how poor the basic ux is in almost every single way. If I’m swimming, how do I stop my work out? The touchscreen doesn’t work because it’s wet. I have to do some sort of double click of the button. No that’s pause. Maybe triple click - no that didn’t do anything. Maybe hold the button? Now it wants to delete my whole workout.

And the GPS sync thing amazes me. I put up with this problem when I was using garmin GPSs for accurate time sync for servers back in the 1990s, but 25+ years later for them not to have figured it out when literally every other GPS device does it just fine completely blows my mind. Apple watch? I want to go for a walk/run/whatever I hit go. If I move during the 3-2-1 countdown nbd it figures it out. Garmin I want to do it I hit go, it tries to sync the sattelites. If I move during this process it starts from scratch. Sometimes the sync takes 30 seconds or so. Annoying but not impossible to live with. Most of the time however the sync takes 30seconds or so and just fails. Also annoying but whatever. Some of the time however the sync takes a few minutes and then fails. And if I move at all during this, it gives me a message saying it’s going to have to start again and starts from scratch.

And to add insult to injury the thing has a custom charging plug with the socket on the back of the watch. It has a ridge and two spikes that physically press into my wrist making it actually painful to wear. So bad.

rafaelmn · 7 months ago
I really like vivomove looks but after buying lux as a gift for my wife I think I will steer clear. App was bad, syncing issues, she wore it for a while because she liked how it looks but I think she has not charged it in over a year because of how much the experience sucks compared to apple watch or even withings.

I have a withings scanwatch right now, the app is nice, ecosystem is nice - but accuracy is very underwhelming.

I would pay 1k for a watch that

- is hybrid with subtle watch aesthetic and minimal display/vibration for notifications

- has Apple watch level metric accuracy

- has week long battery life

- ideally would have replaceable battery but not a deal breaker if warranty is 3 years

WD-42 · 7 months ago
I like my instinct, but Garmin is so locked down, less hackable than even an Apple Watch.
asdff · 7 months ago
I can't get over garmins predatory business model. The way they bin their products by activity is terrible if you have multiple hobbies. All of these devices are just a gps reciever, screen, battery, yet they sell it to you a dozen different ways for $500+ a pop usually because why unify the software and make it easy for the consumer?
Levitating · 7 months ago
I absolutely love my Garmin instict. It has an always-on display and a battery that lasts for nearly a month.

I mostly use it for reading my calendar, weather, notifications and time. Occasionally I use it for exercise.

But what it also excels at is GPS. I use it as a backup navigational tool when sailing. It has also prevented me from getting lost when running in the woods a number of times.

Steltek · 7 months ago
My Pebble Time Steel finally bit the dust so I turned to a Garmin Instinct. I can't stand it. The button placement is totally random and legitimately painful to use. The Garmin software focuses on fitness activities to the exclusion of everything else.

I recoil at having been tempted by the more expensive Garmin watches. What a waste of money that would have been!

tylervigen · 7 months ago
Did you randomly bring this up, or are you saying this because you see a Garmin redirect when you click "No"?

I ask because I get directed to the Apple Watch homepage.

abraxas · 7 months ago
I just gave away a very expensive Garmin to my son. Its feature set is to dream of. Its user interface is hot garbage. When I'm out on a hike or in the pool trying to just measure my fsking laps I need a single click option or something. Their paradigm of "button 1, button 3, button 5, long press button 4, button 1 again to confirm. Now you can push off the wall in 3... 2... 1" is beyond fucking stupid.

Does anyone at Garmin actually practice sports? For a company with such great hardware they really need someone competent on the UX team. Throwing everything into more and more menus and submenus is not working.

The specific watch I'm criticizing is Garmin Instinct 2x solar. The name is very ironic because there is nothing intuitive about using that watch. Like, at all.

soxocx · 7 months ago
On the iPhone I get redirected to the Apple Store page for the Apple Watch. Nice humor.
Findecanor · 7 months ago
I got a tiny bit offended by the assumption that I'd rather have an Apple Watch.

I'd think the ideal for me would instead be something in-between a Pebble and a Sensor Watch. Something hackable with more battery life, that is a watch first (and a smartphone notification screen never). I wonder how far I could go towards that goal with the upcoming Pebble hardware and rewriting the OS kernel to sleep more.

benbristow · 7 months ago
Same on Mac (Firefox)
jacobgkau · 7 months ago
I think it's just a static redirect, it sent me to the Apple Watch page in Firefox on Linux. But I also wondered if it would shuffle between a few different brands or something (I guess not).
eloisant · 7 months ago
The feature I use the most on my smartwatch is paying.

So if they can bring contactless payments to their new Pebble they have my attention, otherwise it's useless to me.

ZeWaka · 7 months ago
There exists 'smart bands', which can be applied to any (generally non-smart, obviously) watch that uses normal pin-style watchbands. They have a contactless chip in them that can store one card. My traditional watches use them, though I had to custom-make one of the bands to be in a style I wanted.
jsheard · 7 months ago
I wouldn't count on that, getting every bank on board is a massive undertaking. Even Garmin Pay and Fitbit Pay (before it was folded into Google Wallet) have/had huge gaps in their coverage, especially outside of the US.
urbandw311er · 7 months ago
You could cut out the chip from a debit card and glue it to the back of the pebble?
edarchis · 7 months ago
The amount of us who clicked no is amazing. I loved my Pebble Time but I'm going to give money to yet another Kickstarter and have it be killed shortly after.
echelon · 7 months ago
Feels a little bit salty to send customers to Google's competitor given the fact that Google provided the exit and also liberated the code. They didn't have to do that.

A better "thank you" to Google would be to direct people to Fitbit.

erohead · 7 months ago
Good call, I just changed it to send to pixel watch if opened on Android or Windows!
alex_young · 7 months ago
I think it’s perfect actually.

Google used to (still?) have a page internally where if you clicked on “I don’t care about security” it sent you to the jobs page of a competitor that had suffered a notable breach.

Very on point.

wlesieutre · 7 months ago
I thought they killed FitBit and are doing Pixel Watch again instead

https://store.google.com/product/pixel_watch_3

Reason077 · 7 months ago
> "A better "thank you" to Google would be to direct people to Fitbit."

Fitbit has already gone off to the great Google graveyard, unfortunately.

wkat4242 · 7 months ago
It's just a joke I think. But yeah linking to the pixel watch would have been nicer.
hbn · 7 months ago
What if you clicked no because you already own a Pebble?
pinoy420 · 7 months ago
Upgrade option
cryptozeus · 7 months ago
why not redirect to google watches specially if the team is from goodle !
nym3r0s · 7 months ago
The primary use for a smartwatch for myself (and many of my family, friends) is fitness and health tracking. Card payments, notifications, WatchFaces etc. are all secondary.

Basically what Whoop is doing with their strap - but minus the subscription model. I know a ton of people who tried the whoop but felt it was extremely pricey and didn't have the accuracy of an apple watch.

I would be happy to pay ~$400-500 up front for hardware that integrates with Apple Health and provides solid, reliable health tracking without a need for a subscription.

And by health/fitness - features expected would be sleep tracking, activity (gps), heart rate, Sp02, skin temperature sensors, fall detection. Then secondarily - additional things like ECG/EKG, apnea, AFib detection

The in-accuracy of some of the devices in the market is why I still choose to remain with my Apple Watch.

This youtube channel may help understand a consumer's perspective on health accuracy - https://www.youtube.com/@TheQuantifiedScientist

coryfklein · 7 months ago
Can someone explain the point of the health tracking features for watches? I have an Apple Watch and I do exercise regularly, but I found that the annoyance of starting and stopping workouts was bothersome so I turned the feature off.

Is it about inducing more exercise? Or is it the timer aspect that it records how long your workout is? (in which case I don’t understand why it’s so much better than a stopwatch?)

For me, and those around me, the fitness feature seems vestigial and has very little impact on actual fitness levels of the individual.

bluGill · 7 months ago
A few years ago my mom looked at her smart watch (fitbit in her case) and it said she did 4 hours of aerobic exercise that day and her heart was elevated. She worked a retail job, so while on her feet all day, it was not aerobic. She immediately went to the doctor despite no other symptoms and they found cancer (which was then treated and so she is alive today). It isn't clear how much longer it would have been before that cancer was detected, but it would have been longer and so treatment would have been delayed which is generally bad.
dspillett · 7 months ago
I walk and run on trails a fair bit¹ so my watch is mostly a route planning/tracking/recording tool.

When training for something I will often at least consider its recommendations and those are based partly on the health readings as well as the training load it has tracked from treks/runs. Though TBH other than that the health tracking is unimportant compared to it being a GPS device that can track for a day or more constantly without needing to talk to a phone (which sits in my pack/pocket in low-power mode to conserve battery unless/until I need it for something). A don't even tend to pay attention to the heart-rate stats (though I do know people who use those features to directly guide their training).

I know a few people whose use pattern is very similar to mine, near identical in fact, so I think it is fairly common amongst people who walk and/or run more than the average person.

----

[1] Less than I'd like ATM, the rest of life like ill family and my own burn-out² are getting in the way, but I'm getting myself back into it

[2] The key reason I'm trying to get back at it: herfing myself around the green stuff³, is something I find beneficial to my mental state as well as physical.

[3] or even the “mostly brown stuff” as it can be this time of year.

nym3r0s · 7 months ago
I believe the value add is a combination of both factors - ability to measure and (as a consequence) induce more exercise.

An example here is how I made sure my parents are getting their exercise in by making completing their Move rings and 10K steps every day. This pushes them to take a walk in the evening instead of doom scrolling / watching TV.

Another example - Check trends like resting heart rate to see if my body has fully recovered from covid19, SP02 at night indicating potential sleep apnea etc.

BigGreenJorts · 7 months ago
I've been a Strava user from before the fitness trackers were big and using a watch to track location instead of my phone is pretty big for me. The additional biometric data (namely heart rate and blood oxygen levels) are a plus. I've also had life long difficulties with sleep, and the sleep data is nice to keep my physical experiences grounded in reality, "Why am I so tired today, I slept so well. Oh no, actually I only slept 5 hours last night."

On the note about how annoying it is to start and stop activities, I strongly agree, tho quick start and auto track have eased the pain a lot for me. I cycle everywhere and really like to keep track of the total distance I do in a month and my watch just automatically tracks that for me.

barnabee · 7 months ago
For me:

- Measuring resting heart rate, SpO2, etc. passively and tracking these over time and the impact of my fitness regime on them

- Sleep tracking

- Tracking pace and heart rate on a run, ride, etc. and (a) using it to manage my pace during the activity; and (d) use it to measure how my performance changes over time

- Navigation and tracking when hiking/skiing

I don't have so much interest in the tracking during, say, a gym workout.

I agree with the GP about wanting a subscription-less Whoop as I like to wear "real" watches so a band on the other wrist is perfect ("double fisting" watches VC-style is not an option I'm willing to entertain). I did like my Pebble enough to include it in the rotation of "real" watches though, too.

pandaman · 7 months ago
It's very useful for aerobic exercise (running, swimming, cycling etc), where you want to pace yourself and keep your heart rate and/or speed/tempo in a certain range.
servercobra · 7 months ago
It's very helpful for race training. Speed work targets various paces, endurance I want to hold a certain pace over time, etc. I (and many people) have a tendency to go much too fast for long distances, so pace targets help me stay where I should and be able to go the distances I want. When I was just getting started I didn't use much technology, but training's gotten a lot easier with my Apple Watch.

Deleted Comment

bdavbdav · 7 months ago
What kind of exercise? I run, row, lift and do various group PT classes. Running it’s essential for pacing and target HR Zones, same for rowing, and on the group PT they’re very variable in terms of what they’re targeting, and it’s good to know if I’m short on (an)aerobic workouts.
qzx_pierri · 7 months ago
I have a Garmin Forerunner 255 (which does everything you requested and much much more). I used to be a Fitbit guy, and the sleep tracking and data is 10x better than Fitbit, with no subscription. The battery life is about 20 days.

The Forerunner 255 can be found on Amazon right now for $250.

Mind you, I also used to own an Apple Watch. Garmin is the best, and second place isn't close.

aucisson_masque · 7 months ago
If you had checked the link on the comment you answered, you would have seen that he reviewed the forerunner 255 (and if that matters all Garmin watch) and found out that their heart rate accuracy and sleep analysis suck. All of them, some more, some less but nowhere near as good as apple watch or a very few Huawei watch and maybe the latest Google watch.
caleb-allen · 7 months ago
I have the Forerunner 945 and it's the only thing that has ever filled the void left by Pebble. Garmin is so good.
2color · 7 months ago
Same here. It's the best smart watch I've had.
mrzool · 7 months ago
> I would be happy to pay ~$400-500 up front for hardware that integrates with Apple Health and provides solid, reliable health tracking without a need for a subscription.

That price point would make it unaffordable for the majority of the world’s population. Shouldn’t we try and make health monitoring and fitness tracking more accessible? That was one of Pebble’s biggest benefits.

jgalt212 · 7 months ago
True, but people who tend to prioritize personal health also tend to be richer than the average bear.
orzig · 7 months ago
You have to start somewhere, and then economies of scale can work their magic. The most inspiring example in the last 30 years is probably photovoltaic solar panels.
toss1 · 7 months ago
Of course, lower cost is almost always better.

But just because advanced devices with (currently) costly components have higher costs is no reason to not create them.

If something works and meets a need, the costs of components and manufacture usually come down as engineering and manufacturing progresses on the learning curve and competition comes into play. (Not true when there is a captured market where extractive pricing becomes the norm, but those are the exception in consumer goods)

bdavbdav · 7 months ago
Surely a Garmin is what you want? No subscription, 7 day+ battery life, smart watch features are there but largely secondary.
hugs · 7 months ago
I wear a Garmin watch every day. It's great. But... I don't love the high price and the fact that the battery isn't easily replaceable. (Feels like Garmin would rather you buy a new watch instead.) There's a huge lane for Pebble to be the torch bearer for the Right-to-Repair movement (especially given it's whole story arc so far.)
patanegra · 7 months ago
It sounds a lot like you might appreciate Garmin watch, too.
scrapcode · 7 months ago
My thoughts were that he was describing my Garmin Fenix pretty closely. GPS on-device means I can use all features un-tethered from a phone. I don't use the sleep tracking so I'm not sure how well it does in that arena compared to the competition.
nym3r0s · 7 months ago
It was an option I considered, but the accuracy of the sensors was way worse than apple for the price.
dakiol · 7 months ago
It would bother me so much to track my health on a daily basis. Too much paranoia. It’s like looking at the stock price every day. I much prefer to track my health twice or so per year.
nym3r0s · 7 months ago
I agree that a single outlier is more stressful - but many times these aren't medical grade devices anyway so the actual data you're looking for is the trend (not the absolute values.

A solution could be to measure it but not really track / visualize it day to day.

pbronez · 7 months ago
You are describing the Oura ring, at least for the passive tracking. It has great health tracking fidelity and battery life. It won’t do GPS, but other than that tracking is great.
nradov · 7 months ago
An SpO2 sensor can be nice to have but it's useless to most people. A healthy person near sea level will always have an SpO2 near 100%. It's only really useful to people with medical conditions like sleep apnea, or athletes at high altitude. And even then you won't be able to get continuous monitoring. Current wrist SpO2 sensors require the wearer to hold still for a while in order to get an accurate reading.

I turned mine off to save battery life.

Arelius · 7 months ago
I sort-of feel like maybe Pebble isn't for you, it had always been the smartwatch in a world of fitness trackers.

I'm almost the opposite for your, Notifications, then watch functionality, and card payments are primary for me. For me, fitness, and health tracking are barely secondary.

Which, IMO, is what I've always loved about Pebble, it was a smartwatch first.

trabant00 · 7 months ago
If you watch TheQuantifiedScientist you must have found out by now that optical sensors on the wrist have no chance of ever being accurate enough for health and fitness tracking. No matter how much they massage their algorithms they simply don't have the right sensors at the right positions on the body.

At the same time the fitness features add cost, bulk, the uncomfortable sensor bump and cost battery life. The original Pebble didn't have any of that and in my opinion was better for it. I also see little point in competing with the already existing numerous options for fitness tracking, even if you only look at the ones without a subscription.

iamacyborg · 7 months ago
Modern optical sensors are pretty dang accurate on garmin watches.
nradov · 7 months ago
I've watched it and TheQuantifiedScientist is totally missing the point. Current optical sensors on the wrist are plenty accurate enough for general health and fitness tracking. If you don't believe me then you can literally count your pulse with your finger and compare against the watch: very close. Optical sensors aren't great for high-intensity training so for those activities everyone knows you need to use a chest strap if you want accurate data.

For a more practical take on heart rate accuracy see the DC Rainmaker reviews instead.

albrewer · 7 months ago
> The primary use for a smartwatch for myself (and many of my family, friends) is fitness and health tracking.

It also needs to be a good watch. Don't forget to not fail at that.

wodenokoto · 7 months ago
I’m with parent. It really doesn’t need to be a good watch.

I have my phone on me. My watch doesn’t need to tell me the time.

lawn · 7 months ago
I agree.

And for those who recommend a Garmin, an Oura ring or similar:

I have a Garmin and it's great but I cannot wear it during martial arts (grappling).

I also can't wear a ring doing weight lifting or when I'm grappling.

I had a Whoop and it was really good for tracking martial arts (the boxers with the holder was super comfortable) but alas it was expensive and the sleep tracking with it in the boxers was really poor.

hmmm-i-wonder · 7 months ago
I really hope you get your wish, I share it.

I gave up with tracking because the short life of a smart watch meant many of the more critical times (sleep/sleep tracking) would be interrupted by charging or dead batteries. I just want a band/strap that is focused on sensors and battery life WITHOUT a subscription.

Until that happens I'm staying out of the ecosystem entirely.

valicord · 7 months ago
Garmin is what you're looking for. Battery lasts 1-2 weeks. No subscription.
alexbouchard · 7 months ago
From most watch market positioning I'd assume this to be true. However for me it's the exact opposite, the watch is a tool to cut phone use. All I care about is LTE and the minimum I need to get around the world. SMS, calls, WhatsApp, Gmaps. All existing decent looking watch have atrocious battery life to offer all the health features.
brk · 7 months ago
Looking forward to checking it out!

I still have this email in my inbox from 2011, after a posting here on HN about your launch:

Subject: You bought the first one! BODY: Congratulations...

Great to see this happening again, best of luck!

erohead · 7 months ago
Thanks for being there at the beginning!
xanderlewis · 7 months ago
That’s really cool.
scottydelta · 7 months ago
This is great news. In the last few years, I have upgraded my apple watch couple of times hoping to accept even marginal improvements to battery life and hackability but every time I stop using it seeing how it's still not what I am looking for.

I tried keeping my pebble alive for so long even after it's demise, I bought 2 Pebble Time when a few were still available on ebay.

I remember writing my first integration from scratch to control room lamp using my Pebble watch. I hacked it together by getting a wifi socket and programming a web-server hosted on my raspberry-pi.

Here is the DEMO video I made 8 years ago: https://vikashbajaj.com/pebble.mp4

My pebble watch would call an app on my phone, in turn the app would make a request to the webserver and the webserver would then make a query to the wifi socket to toggle it.

It lagged a bit but it got the job done. I could connect anything to these wifi sockets and control any appliance with my Pebble time. This was before hackable smart hubs were a thing.

oli-g · 7 months ago
> My pebble watch would call an app on my phone, in turn the app would make a request to the webserver and the webserver would then make a query to the wifi socket to toggle it

When you ask your programmer husband to turn on the light

minimalengineer · 7 months ago
Great device — lasted 4 years, woke me at 5 AM without disturbing my kids, and handled notifications well. Battery life was about a week, and it was swim-proof. That said, it was cheap... I hope this new version isn’t part of the “dumb” device trend where people spend $500 just to detox, thinking the price will force commitment.
OccamsMirror · 7 months ago
At the same time, I hope it's priced high enough so that the company can thrive without taking external funding. PE and VC fuck everything up.
rzazueta · 7 months ago
I LOVE My Pebble and even got Rebble working on it not long ago to revive it.

However...

If you want to make it TRULY HACKABLE as you claim, you will not encumber it with cloud dependencies like you did last time. Let ME self host my own Pebble server if I choose. Go ahead and default to your servers and sell services and whatever, but let me host my own and switch the base URL to my own domain, preferably with open source software and simple APIs, without requiring me to go through your servers.

That way, even if this attempt also doesn't pan out, those of us willing to do the work will at least still have the functionality we want. I get the whole VC "lock them into required cloud services for life so we can make endless subscription revenue" model, but it's absolutely corrupt.

And, Eric, I know you know that - you have a hacker's heart. Please listen to it.

erohead · 7 months ago
I'm 100% with you! No VCs this time...no mandatory cloud subscription. But I'm not really sure that this fear is grounded - before we sold to Fitbit we 'unlocked' the Pebble mobile app so you could use it with any cloud you wanted, including self hosted. So...it already meets your definition
follower · 7 months ago
Oh! Also: I'd be really interested for you to expand on "I think I’ve learned some valuable lessons[0]".

The 2022 updates gave an interesting insight into how your perspective had changed in regard to your initial thoughts and I'm interested to know if another three years has lead to further perspective changes.

I found Andrew Witte's remark of particular interest with regard to "...we allowed early success [...] to mask the fact that we never gained a good understanding of what our actual customers valued the most. We lucked into having made something people wanted (the original Pebble) and, IMO, never really were able to figure out exactly why it was successful. So it was hard to reproduce that success."

----

[0] https://ericmigi.com/blog/success-and-failure-at-pebble

andrewflnr · 7 months ago
Possibly that's a good thing to mention on the homepage. :)
saidinesh5 · 7 months ago
This is really good news!

Wishlist for the next device:

More sensors: heart rate, spo2 and ecg...

follower · 7 months ago
TL;DR: Succinctness has never been my strong suit? :)

----

> But I'm not really sure that this fear is grounded - before we sold to Fitbit we 'unlocked' the Pebble mobile app [...].

If I'm reading OP's comment & your reply correctly, my impression is there's potentially a fear of either (a) "re-locking"; or, even just (b) "new thing not unlocked"--and, I think, you're saying that (a) isn't going to/can't happen?

On closer reading I think you might also be saying that (b) isn't going to happen because "new thing" is still going to use the previous unlocked app and/or maybe a new unlocked app? But, if that's the case, I only really saw that possible interpretation after a much closer re-read.

(Alternatively, maybe I just didn't weight sufficiently strongly the FAQ: "Will it be exactly like Pebble?" "Yes. In almost every way.")

More broadly (outside the positive example of your specific track record with regard to OGPebble & the app unlocking), given the landscape of the past 1.5+ decades littered with even just recent examples such as Spotify's Car Thing, Google's Stadia controller, Bambu Labs, and pretty much every phone ever[0][0a], I think it would be a stretch to consider the fear to be entirely ungrounded.

Particularly if some portion of the device firmware etc and/or server software is still going to be closed source.

In terms of strength of confidence in the potential of achieving a "desired open outcome/ongoing experience", I imagine the ordering from least to greatest trust required by product purchasers is something like: "completely open & unlocked from the beginning", "legally binding commitment/escrow for open & unlocked on 'exit'", "word/reputation for open & unlocked on 'exit'", through to "amorphous hope for largesse/noblesse-oblige/benevolence/other-fancy-latin-phrase for positive outcome at some unspecified future time".

And, um, trust in general might be slightly lacking these days, for some reason. :)

Anyway, IMO FWIW.

----

On a slightly different note, while reading comments in the various PebbleOS/RePebble threads I've been contemplating what has changed with regard to the consumer electronics hardware market compared to, say, fifteen plus years ago.

Certainly the "hope" of Android bringing the Power & Freedom of "Linux on Desktop" to "Linux on the Phonetop"[1] from the early 2000s seems to have been completely abandoned[2] but on the other hand Framework[3] exists and the Steam Deck[4] exists.

Perhaps the two most surprising things related to this "control over personal devices" topic from recent history:

(1) the discovery 1-2 years ago that it wasn't just irascible curmudgeons like me wanting to have control over the devices in their lives[5] but a much younger generation was also looking to "dumb phones" in a conscious effort to exert some control over the impact of such devices on their lives.

(1.1) aside: the attraction of similar demographic(s) to audio cassette tapes on the other hand, I totally don't "get" but by now I'm starting to suspect this state may now be primarily driven by the desire to not accidentally make cassettes uncool by "getting" it. :D

(2) noting over the past year or so the significant increase in the number (or even the mere presence) of YouTube comments from gamers remarking that they have just, or, want to, move from Windows to Linux. Gamers. GAMERS! The same demographic who previously would ruthlessly mock anyone who dare suggest such a move might be possible[6] let alone desirable...

This might all just be the biased perspective of a jaded idealistic optimist[7] but it's not nothing. Unless it is.

Approaching consumer electronics hardware with this trend as a guiding force may also not be the way to run a financially sustainable hardware business but on the other hand, what if?

----

BTW I noticed in one place on the page (https://repebble.com/) the text states:

* "(which purchased Fitbit, which had bought Pebble)"

and in another it states:

* "before the company's IP was sold to Fitbit in 2016".

I mention this because the difference is a nuance that has seemed to be significant in other times/places, so thought it might have unintentionally slipped through proof-reading--even if of no real consequence now. :)

----

Also: Hello! (Again. :) ) This was unexpected news, for sure.

Left another "short" note for you here (in case you've not encountered it organically): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42856930

----

[0] Yes, yes, Fairphone exists.

[0a] Televisions!

[1] Irony? Satire? Sarcasm? *shrug*

[2] Speaking of small phones, this still remains of interest: https://smallandroidphone.com/

[3] I so want to know what category Framework's "Next Thing" is in--primarily because what's seemingly the "most obvious" category for them to move into also seems the most "unlikely" by any reasonable measure. So to find out would be to either be surprised by a category I hadn't considered or surprised by the audaciousness of their next goal.

[4] Hand-waving away for now any problematic aspects of its current context.

[5] See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42848761 & https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42845574 (non-pejorative :) )

[6] Yes, yes, every PlayStation fan-persoin runs BSD.

[7] I do like the phrase "user-respectful technology" as used here: https://rebble.io/2025/01/27/the-future-of-rebble.html

lolinder · 7 months ago
So much this. Learn from Framework: Sell the hardware at a price point that makes your business sustainable without needing a cloud component to push you over into profitability.

Yes, it will lock out people for whom that price is unacceptable, but now more than ever your real customer is serious hackers, and we are collectively more than fed up with the cloud and subscriptions. Framework and Nabu Casa need to be your models here, because your customers are overwhelmingly their customers.

NoahKAndrews · 7 months ago
Pretty much all of the cloud stuff has been reimplemented with open-source code by the community! See rebble.org.
bcraven · 7 months ago
rebble.io is the correct address
ClassyJacket · 7 months ago
I second this. I'll be very hesitant to buy in if it's locked to a cloud service. And people are waking up to this, with the Bambu controversy and all. Please don't make this mistake.
Neikius · 7 months ago
I keep looking for a decent watch. And phone. And there is just nothing available. Everything gets encumbered with this and that cloud. This and that app. Mandatory policies, apps, surveillance and eventually subscriptions or selling of your personal data.

I don't think we will be getting this in our "free market". It would need to be mandated by state for manufacturers to use open APIs. There is just no incentive for them to offer those otherwise.

blobbers · 7 months ago
When micropayments fail to annoy sufficiently, just turn them into microsubscriptions! Try 3 days for 30 cents!

-- agree with you rzazeuta!

mattogodoy · 7 months ago
I came to say exactly this. I could not have stated it better. As a Pebble power user back in the day, who owns 3 watches and pledged in the Kickstarter to get the new Pebble that sadly never saw the light of day, the only way I'm coming back is if every piece of this puzzle is open source. And by this I mean:

- Servers: I agree with you. Make a default "cloud" owned by Pebble, but give us the ability to self-host it. NO SUBSCRIPTIONS, NO ADS, NO PRIVACY INVASION, PLEASE.

- PebbleOS: This is already a reality, and I'm very happy that it's happening.

- Mobile apps: Make them open-source! Let us play with them and you'll benefit of the fixes, improvements and innovation of the community.

- Hardware: It would be fine for me if the hardware was not open. As long as I can install my own firmware on it and have full control of it, I'm happy.

I think I speak for most of us when I say that I'm sick and tired of not owning my stuff. In the dystopic world we're living in, with enshittification at it's peak, an open, hackable, and truly owned device would feel like a breath of fresh air.

You have a real opportunity here, Eric. Please use it :) Best of luck!

ericd · 7 months ago
Ooh yeah, big bonus points if it integrates easily with eg Homeassistant.