"The TPS25751 supports liquid detection by measuring the voltage level across the SBU pins of the Type-C connector. When a short occurs across the SBU pins to another Type-C pin(s), the TPS25751 takes action to protect the the Type-C port by disabling the power paths and notifies the embedded controller when applicable. Once liquid has been detected, the TPS25751 continuously monitors the SBU voltage. During the SBU voltage monitoring, if the liquid/short is no longer present the TPS25751 takes action to return to normal operation."
In other words, it's not actually detecting "liquids" but more of any conductive short. Non-conductive liquids, like oils and many other petroleum products, won't be detected.
Dumb question: wouldn't non-conductive liquids be harmless? i.e., the USB port can in theory work even if it is immersed in some non-conductive liquid, no?
So it's a software visible GFCI circuit. Not super interesting, though sure, if the chip does it the OS should probably listen. The spin in the article about how this is all because of warranty denial revenue is pretty weird though.
The binary is at "/System/Library/CoreServices/liquiddetectiond". I took a quick look at disassembly, it has some functions for getting voltage, an amusingly named selector called "setIsWet". There's an "AnalyticsSendEvent" in there (and some corresponding obj-c methods). Maybe marcan will do a deeper disassembly one day. There's some reference to TI stuff in the selector names so you're probably right about that.
On iOS you can thankfully override it (the alert dialog lets you do it) in case of an emergency - which is pretty handy if you’ve had the phone in the pool/shower and really need to charge it and don’t have a blow dryer to hand.
Less frequent of an issue for laptops I would hope :D
Yes, it is, and most of them get it from the same chipsets :)
They are not making their own, it's a function of the controller of the USB-C PD port they use.
IMO it's dirty pool for Apple to advertise their products as waterproof (IP68) and then even if a drop of water gets on the external case, they will refuse to honor the warranty, even if the water has nothing to do with the problem.
They don't even want to perform out of warranty, paid repairs if any of the liquid sensors are tripped. A few years back I had an MBP that the battery had worn out on, but several years before, I had spilled some water on the keyboard. The computer was none the worse for wear -- I dried it out quickly and it was fine, but when the battery wore out and I wanted it replaced, they wanted me to pay $1500 for a new motherboard before they would be willing to replace the battery.
To add another anecdote, Apple refused to honor the warranty on an AirPod Pro with sweat-related damage. Nevermind that it's supposed to be "sweat and water resistant", they seem to treat any kind of liquid damage as user error anyway. Luckily it was from Costco, so I just returned it and switched to Shockz.
>even if a drop of water gets on the external case, they will refuse to honor the warranty
This is both not true and so hyperbolic it's ridiculous. IP68 is only colloquially "waterproof" as none of the IP ratings have an indefinite exposure time.
There are liquid sensors in the ports, and if a drop of water gets on them, they will turn red and Apple will refuse to honor your warranty. Apple claims the iPhone is waterproof to 6 meters for 30 minutes, but if you put your phone in one inch of water for one second, your warranty is void.
Wait wait wait, they advertise the iPhone as waterproof but still void the warranty and won’t fix it if their waterproofing fails? We lost the headphone jack for this?
Nothing in the article says Apple will void warranty on an iPhone if water has been detected in the charging port (water damage is a different thing entirely). This concerns Mac computers, which are not sold as waterproof.
> Apple’s limited warranty doesn’t cover damage caused by liquids, even for water-resistant products like the iPhone, Apple Watch, and some AirPods models.
But the article is kind of all over the place. It then says Macs can now detect water in USB-C ports while having pictures in the article of iPhones showing messages that they detected liquids. They like to make the point that Macs will report this back home to the mothershop while iPhones do not? idk
Let's assume on Macs this is used to void warranty because like you said, they are not sold as waterproof. On iPhones it's to alert the user, so he can remove the water from the port - not concerning warranty?
My android pixel 7 reported water ingress in the usb port during a hike to kinder scout in the peak district (UK). It was raining lightly, but mostly there was a very thick fog / mist / drizzle that didn't really fall from the sky or land on you, rather it enveloped and coated you such that you were soaked.
I'd only removed my phone from my waterproof jacket pocket on two occasions to verify GPS location as I was still using a laminated map and compass.
This weather descended on me in about 10 minutes, I did not choose to be soaked.
Sounds like taking an iPhone camping in parts of the UK where the weather can do this is now an absolute no.
The pixel was fine btw, didn't stop working, and as soon as the air was less like soup it told me the water had cleared. Wouldn't want that to have been a warranty voiding event on a newer device though (I'm probably already out of warranty).
I don't think it's to void the warranty, it's just that the phone will refuse to charge (and blare an alarm if you try) in order to prevent corrosion when using the USB-C port wet.
Conversely my iPhone 13 Pro was taken all round the world and been soaked through, frozen and dropped tens of times in snow and a river. The clear TPU case looked like a water puzzle on a regular basis.
Apple replaced the battery in it last week without a whimper and I expect they would do the same in the future.
If I did this to my MacBook they probably would not. Which is the point.
You don't necessarily need rain exposure. When I'm actively hiking, and especially during colder conditions, heavy condensation forms on the surface of the phone directly in the pocket. This is more frequent on sport jackets, which are designed to release internal humidity/sweat faster.
My Iphone 12 recently spent a full night in a gutter during a rainstorm, water rushing over it. It was completely fine, didn't even seem to bother the hotspot.
I've used various generations of iPhones over the years for many long damp days in the Scottish hills and I've never had any problems - mind you I do use cases and carry a small plastic bag to put my phone in when it gets really wet - which does occasionally happen in Scotland...
How could you possibly conclude that taking an iPhone camping is an "absolute no" from article that's just about how they have a safety feature to prevent you from charging in situations where charging might cause corrosion
I have a 300€ 2021 Motorola Defy. I wash it often under running water, took baths with it, no issues with the headphone jack, neither with the usb c port.
Been charging my iPhone 12 mini since it was 5 months old because of my toddler for this reason. Charging port died, went in and couldn’t get through a round of apple care people and gave up
Pure not salt water or tap water, not contaminated toilet water where most phones seem to end up. And only for a certain time at a certain depth (pressure). And not pressurized just static.
>> Apple’s limited warranty doesn’t cover damage caused by liquids, even for water-resistant products like the iPhone, Apple Watch, and some AirPods models.
Possibly not related, but my past two Samsungs have had this feature and it drives me crazy. Usually they seem to trigger when using non standard cords and from 0% battery life. This means that I get a very loud warning sound triggering when trying to charge my phone from a battery pack or borrowing someone's cord.
Oddly, charging when on (ie not completely dead), this feature doesn't trigger the alarm.
I think the issue is that it triggers when there is even a tiny piece of dirt in there. Ie. the pins aren't shorted, but there is some damp particle of dust in there causing a 10 Megaohm connection which would do no harm whatsoever.
Happens a lot for people who leave USB-C cables in the bottom of bags and they get dirt in the connector (and possibly the residue from that beer that exploded in your bag last year and the sugary water never quite evaporates)
I had my S22 upside down in my pocket and happened to splash water directly into the USB port and nowhere else. The precision was honestly kind of impressive. I only knew about it because my phone freaked out. I let it dry overnight rather than charge it, and everything has been good since then.
Could this by why I hear a really loud buzzing sound when I connect my laptop to a thunderbolt docking station?
The sound only happens for a fraction of a second, and doesn't happen every time; but now that you mention it, it does have the acoustic properties of a warning buzzer!
All components genuine AFAIK and supplied by the same vendor, Toshiba/Dynabook; but I wonder if a failing component somewhere causes a bad state that some component detects, triggering this warning sound...
I doubt it. My guess is that you have speakers/headphones connected to your dock and they're picking up some kind of transients when you plug it in. Capacitors charging can also have some sound, but it's usually quite high pitched. If you're docking station has an external power source, you might find that adding/removing/changing it helps. Or connecting speakers/headphones via a usb DAC.
I wonder how reliable this will be. Back in the summer, my mom plugged her iPhone in to charge, and it gave a warning saying that it couldn't charge because there was liquid in the charging port. However, the port was bone-dry, and there was no liquid anywhere near the phone. It turned out that the charger didn't like the extension cord that it was plugged into. I took the extension cord away, and the phone started charging.
They don't want to service the laptop even if you don't have warranty.
I have a Mac from 2016, probably had a minor water event, water spilled on table and slightly touched the chasis. I don't remember anything significant. The battery lasts 20 minutes in 2021, I go and ask them to replace it and they refuse because of "water damage" and warn that the machine can fry at any moment. The laptop is still running fine daily in 2024.
They can only "fix it" by charging more than a price of Macbook Air M1, they do not want to replace the battery but the whole board.
Sony has this like forever. And in my opinion, it works really well. It only trigger when I use my wet hand to hold it or when I wash it(you know, sony smartphone is well known for overheat). It never trigger for other reason for the entire period I am using it.
I have a wall charger that triggers the liquid detection on my Samsung phone if the charger has gotten tugged partially out of the outlet. I use the same charger literally every night and it works fine.
I'm incredibly leery of this functionality being used to deny warranty claims as a result.
Samsung devices have moisture detection via USB-C for a long time. It does not work very reliable and many people have problems (https://ifixit.com/Antworten/Ansehen/511762/How+to+stop+the+...). I randomly get this error when I try to charge my S21 with my Macbook Pros charging cable.
A friend worked on GPS positioning for oil rig industry ships. The laptops they used were ruggedized and it was normal to assess replacements by knocking them off the table deliberately to see how they coped.
Having used ruggedised laptops in the past - usually the keyboards are pretty horrible if they're fully waterproof. Depends between model to model, but the most fully-waterproof ones we had had a full membrane over the keyboard, making it super spongey and terrible to type on.
An iPad on the other hard would be pretty easy to make fully waterproof like the phones, since it only has a couple of buttons and one port.
Touchscreens are terrible for any sort of environment requiring ruggedized gear. A little bit of rain or dirt makes the touch screen get very confused and totally useless for actual touch.
I have a somewhat rugged chromebook(Asus C201), which is not waterproof, but quite waterresistant and still with a decent keyboard. I used it while backpacking in rough areas and it got wet and sandy and got dropped in wet dirt - but never had an issue with typing. So I think it is possible to get a good balance of waterproof and ergonomic keyboard. But full waterproof would be probably indeed hard.
> What do people who want use their macs out in the field do?
"Out in the field" jobs? That's typically stuff for heavily rugged Windows laptops (e.g. Panasonic Toughbook). I wonder what you could use a Mac device for in that area, the software used for such jobs (e.g. industrial control, car programming or mapping stuff) is almost exclusively Windows-only.
It doesn't even have to be waterproof to prevent 99% water damage cases. It just needs to be water resistant against liquid pours from the top, like how a car can withstand rain.
Making a keyboard fully water proof is tricky and often leads to subpar experiences.
If you don't have a fan making everything else but the keyboard(and mousepad) water resistant is not hard, and with a bit more trickery about how the keyboard are connected you can get to everything but keyboard waterproof too.
Issue is then you also need a easy replaceable keyboard and hand replacement keyboard out so that people can have them ready them "just in case".
Which both doesn't seem in the interest of Apple if you look at their actions in recent years.
I think currently the best chance for a new consumer laptop which is water proof and convenient to use would be a tablet which has no fan but still provides okay performance and then some "dock on" keyboard like e.g. in the style of the Microsoft Surface or similar. Then you could have a version where the keyboard is also water proof or a version where if it drops in water you replace the nicer to use keyboard with a new one etc.
Making the ports waterproof would be pretty easy, since they can do that on iPhones. But what about the ventilation areas? That's much trickier, I'd think. Making a waterproof iPad should be trivial since it has the same ports as an iPhone.
> Making the ports waterproof would be pretty easy, since they can do that on iPhones
iPhones are not waterproof, they're IP68 water resistant. Apple even describes the port as being a liquid egress (and thus ingress) point in their public "oops I dunked my phone in water" support documentation.
Dry your iPhone:
1. Tap your iPhone gently against your hand with the connector facing down to remove excess liquid. Leave your iPhone in a dry area with some airflow
Spill proof should be possible reasonably. Think pad used to have channels for water drainage not sure they still have them. Dunking proof laptop would be possible but tradeoff not worth it.
Readit News
See, e.g., https://www.ti.com/product/TPS25751 in the features section.
Apple has historically used TI chipsets for their USB power controllers. The feature likely comes from this.
"The TPS25751 supports liquid detection by measuring the voltage level across the SBU pins of the Type-C connector. When a short occurs across the SBU pins to another Type-C pin(s), the TPS25751 takes action to protect the the Type-C port by disabling the power paths and notifies the embedded controller when applicable. Once liquid has been detected, the TPS25751 continuously monitors the SBU voltage. During the SBU voltage monitoring, if the liquid/short is no longer present the TPS25751 takes action to return to normal operation."
In other words, it's not actually detecting "liquids" but more of any conductive short. Non-conductive liquids, like oils and many other petroleum products, won't be detected.
OTOH, I haven't seen any USB certifications on Apple USB cables or devices, so most likely Apple doesn't care.
Smells of bad engineering - do they also have a batteryislowd? or a someonepressedtheMkeyonthekeyboardd?
It prevents the device from applying/draining power from any pin in such a state, mainly to reduce corrosion of the contacts and increase longevity.
(Without such a mechanism, an IPxx device may be unable to charge within a few weeks as the contacts of the connector can deteriorate quite fast)
As to why Apple ported the daemon from iOS to macOS....well, for sure a good indicator to reduce warranty repair-costs...
Less frequent of an issue for laptops I would hope :D
They don't even want to perform out of warranty, paid repairs if any of the liquid sensors are tripped. A few years back I had an MBP that the battery had worn out on, but several years before, I had spilled some water on the keyboard. The computer was none the worse for wear -- I dried it out quickly and it was fine, but when the battery wore out and I wanted it replaced, they wanted me to pay $1500 for a new motherboard before they would be willing to replace the battery.
This is both not true and so hyperbolic it's ridiculous. IP68 is only colloquially "waterproof" as none of the IP ratings have an indefinite exposure time.
> Apple’s limited warranty doesn’t cover damage caused by liquids, even for water-resistant products like the iPhone, Apple Watch, and some AirPods models.
But the article is kind of all over the place. It then says Macs can now detect water in USB-C ports while having pictures in the article of iPhones showing messages that they detected liquids. They like to make the point that Macs will report this back home to the mothershop while iPhones do not? idk
Let's assume on Macs this is used to void warranty because like you said, they are not sold as waterproof. On iPhones it's to alert the user, so he can remove the water from the port - not concerning warranty?
I'd only removed my phone from my waterproof jacket pocket on two occasions to verify GPS location as I was still using a laminated map and compass.
This weather descended on me in about 10 minutes, I did not choose to be soaked.
Sounds like taking an iPhone camping in parts of the UK where the weather can do this is now an absolute no.
The pixel was fine btw, didn't stop working, and as soon as the air was less like soup it told me the water had cleared. Wouldn't want that to have been a warranty voiding event on a newer device though (I'm probably already out of warranty).
Apple replaced the battery in it last week without a whimper and I expect they would do the same in the future.
If I did this to my MacBook they probably would not. Which is the point.
Wonder how my warranty's doing.
My Samsung S8 was waterproof and had the jack. And it was just as thin as an iPhone.
It's been a massive gaslighting campaign.
[1]: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/mobile-phones-table...
Pure not salt water or tap water, not contaminated toilet water where most phones seem to end up. And only for a certain time at a certain depth (pressure). And not pressurized just static.
Maybe they should be named USB-Sea? /s
>> Apple’s limited warranty doesn’t cover damage caused by liquids, even for water-resistant products like the iPhone, Apple Watch, and some AirPods models.
Dead Comment
Oddly, charging when on (ie not completely dead), this feature doesn't trigger the alarm.
I really dislike this feature.
Guess what is more annoying than a loud sound.
Happens a lot for people who leave USB-C cables in the bottom of bags and they get dirt in the connector (and possibly the residue from that beer that exploded in your bag last year and the sugary water never quite evaporates)
It's probably a not-entirely-compliant USB implementation on the phone.
Could this by why I hear a really loud buzzing sound when I connect my laptop to a thunderbolt docking station?
The sound only happens for a fraction of a second, and doesn't happen every time; but now that you mention it, it does have the acoustic properties of a warning buzzer!
All components genuine AFAIK and supplied by the same vendor, Toshiba/Dynabook; but I wonder if a failing component somewhere causes a bad state that some component detects, triggering this warning sound...
It's not even a new trick, some scammy repair companies here in Europe loved to claim water damage to avoid warranty repairs.
I have a Mac from 2016, probably had a minor water event, water spilled on table and slightly touched the chasis. I don't remember anything significant. The battery lasts 20 minutes in 2021, I go and ask them to replace it and they refuse because of "water damage" and warn that the machine can fry at any moment. The laptop is still running fine daily in 2024.
They can only "fix it" by charging more than a price of Macbook Air M1, they do not want to replace the battery but the whole board.
I'm incredibly leery of this functionality being used to deny warranty claims as a result.
Dead Comment
Dead Comment
It seems like they could easily make the macbook air waterproof at this point, if they were so inclined.
What do people who want use their macs out in the field do?
An iPad on the other hard would be pretty easy to make fully waterproof like the phones, since it only has a couple of buttons and one port.
"Out in the field" jobs? That's typically stuff for heavily rugged Windows laptops (e.g. Panasonic Toughbook). I wonder what you could use a Mac device for in that area, the software used for such jobs (e.g. industrial control, car programming or mapping stuff) is almost exclusively Windows-only.
I wonder why Apple has never considered making a toughbook type machine for real field work.
If you don't have a fan making everything else but the keyboard(and mousepad) water resistant is not hard, and with a bit more trickery about how the keyboard are connected you can get to everything but keyboard waterproof too.
Issue is then you also need a easy replaceable keyboard and hand replacement keyboard out so that people can have them ready them "just in case".
Which both doesn't seem in the interest of Apple if you look at their actions in recent years.
I think currently the best chance for a new consumer laptop which is water proof and convenient to use would be a tablet which has no fan but still provides okay performance and then some "dock on" keyboard like e.g. in the style of the Microsoft Surface or similar. Then you could have a version where the keyboard is also water proof or a version where if it drops in water you replace the nicer to use keyboard with a new one etc.
iPhones are not waterproof, they're IP68 water resistant. Apple even describes the port as being a liquid egress (and thus ingress) point in their public "oops I dunked my phone in water" support documentation.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102643The idea that is single spilled coffee can cause $1000 of damage or more to a laptop is ridiculous.