> The update will add new, more prominent visual alerts and checks for the Autosteer function, which is part of Autopilot.
Nothing was actually broken but regulators just insist on more alerts and Tesla just implemented those and is rolling them out with a routine software update. But that's a less dramatic headline.
Some, manufacturers of course don't have the ability to do OTA updates for their cars and need to recall the car to perform software updates. Especially firmware of components sourced from third parties (e.g. engine software) is usually a bit more tricky. Even with manufacturers that do have OTA updates, it's often limited to just the entertainment software.
Tesla doesn't have that issue because they design components in house and don't have a lot of external software suppliers (if any at all). So, they can fix just about any software issue with over the air updates and make the car better over time. Some of the Chinese EV manufacturers do the same. But more manufacturers should do that.
If I look at the recalls for my cars, they're far more mundane. "A passenger detection module may not detect a passenger. The vehicle will automatically deploy air bags in that seat position". "The passenger side camera may get foggy in cold weather".
And I don't think throwing shade at Toyota there helps a lot. Perhaps remember that Tesla has shipped vehicles with missing brake pads, unglued windshields, etc.
the fact that it can be easily modified OTA is a red flag enough that Tesla is pushing software out without the same level of testing hardware does. shipping a MVP in the hopes it doesn't' cause an accident isn't exactly best practice.
I appreciate the clarification here. I read this headline this morning and it made me think they had to "(physically) recall 2M vehicles" as-in take them off the road completely.
With a cup of coffee it feels a bit more like "take them into a service center to fix them" but even that is far larger than the truth.
That’s not how recalls usually work anyways. The cars aren’t pulled off the road. You usually get a letter or email then schedule a service. Happened with my Outback a few years ago… some battery drain thing. I took it in a few months after getting the email.
Just because a manufacturer applies a fix OTA doesn’t make it not a recall. Recall is just a term. Regulators issue the recall. How the manufacturer performs the fix can vary.
Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But nothing is getting “recalled” in the literal meaning of the word. “Tesla ships mandatory software update OTA to address bug” is much more accurate to how this affects real people.
Yes, I am aware. I have no issues with using the word “recall” for this either, as long as it is clarified that it is resolved through OTA and doesn’t require a drive to a dealership.
And that’s because most people have no idea that recalls resolved trough OTA are even a thing. Makes sense to me that a lot of people wouldn’t be aware, since OTA updates aren’t entirely common in cars yet.
As for “why”, since “it is still a recall, the only difference is how it is addressed”? Because to an actual person dealing with a recall, it makes a significant difference whether they gotta drive somewhere and leave their car there to get fixed vs. their car autoupdating OTA overnight while the car is parked safely at home.
I think the difference is with any other manufacturer an announced recall means you are scheduling a service appointment with the dealership, taking time off work, finding a babysitter, doing the rental agreement paperwork if it is a lengthy fix, etc...
With Tesla no action on your end is required. The car will download the fix and apply it automatically.
You clearly don't know what recall means as your statement is completely wrong. The recall is not equivalent to how it's resolved. You could turn that into an arrow instead. I.e. due to the recall, Tesla is pushing an ota that will address the safety concerns.
To help you better understand in the future:
> A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards.
Yeah I was wondering about that too. I got a software update that seemed to add auto steer to my non-self-driving model y. I tried it a few times on the highway but it seemed erratic (switching off randomly and dangerously engaging regenerative brakes in the fast lane). Won’t be trying again until next update (if it sticks in the car).
> I got a software update that seemed to add auto steer to my non-autopilot model y.
All (edit: new since 2019) Teslas come with autopilot. “Full self driving” is an add on.
> I tried it a few times on the highway but it seemed erratic (switching off randomly and dangerously engaging regenerative brakes in the fast lane)
“Switching off” usually means that it can’t identify the lane it’s supposed to be in. Was this some sort of a rural highway, a highway under construction, and/or a poorly maintained road?
The braking is called “phantom braking”, and (since a very good update in spring 2022) usually only occurs when there is some sort of substantial deceptive visual issue like oil lines, asphalt sealant, a reflection of the sun, or visual mirages (when the road looks shiny/reflective due to temp diffs).
For me personally, phantom braking only happens on a couple of (crappy) roads at certain spots for me, so I just don’t use AP at those spots.
In general, AP is super consistent. Other than an overdone name, it works really well. If it was just called “advanced cruise control”, people wouldn’t be shitting themselves over the feature. It’s just adaptive cruise control with lane assist, two features that many cars have, and Teslas happens to have implemented quite well (imho).
I don't own a Tesla but when I was a kid we had Sega Channel and I remember waking up on the first day of a new cycle, excited to see what games had randomly been chosen to be listed. This is how I imagine update day going with a Tesla lol "Did they include any exciting features? Take anything good away? Gotta wake up and go find out!"
I think they wrote this _technically true_ but falsely framed headline just because they are so angry with Elon.
"Government Regulators Force Tesla to Add New Warning Language to Autopilot Software" would be so much more accurate, but wouldn't have the same negative connotation
Yea thats my take too.. he's stepping on toes and trying to remove the undue influence advertisers and others have on free speech. I hope it works. Twitter should be exporting the first amendment to the rest of the world - prudes and religious sensibilities be damned.
> Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners.
I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading
It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update.
Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks.
(Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)
I think at some point the absurdity of the numbers (now it's 2M, soon it'll be 10M, 50M, ...) will become so great that NHTSA will stop calling this a "recall", and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. Absurdity because it'll get harder and harder to imagine how a company might bring in millions and millions of vehicles in for service repeatedly, from a logistics and cost perspective, and still be able to grow and make a good profit.
>and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles.
It's not clickbait, that's ridiculous. The essence of the article is the results of the investigation. NHSTA has a process, they investigated and issued a recall. The fact that it can be fixed OTA doesn't change the intent of what's happening. I mean, at what point does the first comment stop being, "It's not a recall!" Who cares.
I'm more interested in the obvious questions, like: does the update actually make anything safer? If it's so easy, why didn't Tesla do it on their own?
Tesla gets to address recalls via OTA software updates right up to the point where they can not. Then, as you note, 2M+ vehicles needing physical replacement parts or rework will kill them because they have no way to do that. EVs are simple enough that they might avoid that scenario entirely.
But imagine one of those massive castings developing cracks and needing some reinforcements welded on in the field, or really any part. FEA is probably the most important tech that Tesla is dependent on.
So when is Toyota (the only other system I have experience with) going to be recalled? Their system is worse than Tesla's and will just randomly disable itself with zero alerts.
Thank you, the report itself is more useful than most of the news articles.
TBH, this sounds like... not much. The alerts will be louder and more prominent, and maybe it can't be turned on close to stop signs or traffic lights now. Not that engaging it there was normal before. :shrug
The so-called "FSD" feature seems to be unaffected, since its operational domain was already different.
Such OTA's by auto makers should be required to be reviewed by a 3rd party. A bad update can kill people.
I assume OTAs for planes have a strict process defined or approved by the FAA which needs to be followed. Does the NTSB have such a thing in place or is it just the wild west?
Better yet, how about some dumb cars where you can't be killed by software code... there's no need for all these computers in cars these days. Keep it simple stupid. I think they just want to inflate the prices so much with all these extra useless features to force unequal access to personal transport.
It's all about cost-effective improvement in sellable stats. Getting a little more horsepower; handling a little better; braking a little better. Easier to do with software than some mechanical device.
Conspiracy theories aren't necessary. Just regular competitive market forces will explain it.
Because it is a recall, and your suggested headline would be misleading.
Tesla routinely pushes software updates. This one, however, is different. It’s the result of a multi-year NHTSA investigation, and it’s legally a recall.
The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act gives NHTSA the authority to require manufacturers to recall vehicles that have safety-related defects. Just because this recall is being addressed through an OTA software update doesn’t make it not a recall.
Because "they" are pissed at Elon and his antics. He destroyed their propaganda platform and exposed the propaganda pushers. Now he's shitting on advertisers for extorting the platform. A story like this has an effect on stock prices. It's all they can do to try to hurt him since he has so much "fuck you" money.
I'm surprised by the inability of many HN'ers to understand what a "recall" means. How you fix it doesn't matter. OTA or dealer visit recall is a recall.
"Autosteer is intended for use on controlled-access highways with a fully attentive driver. Do not use Autosteer in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present."
GM and Ford both restrict their systems to controlled access highways, and are hands free when doing so. I wish Tesla would do something similar.
> In the case of a notification required to be sent by a motor vehicle manufacturer, by certified mail, verifiable electronic means such as receipts or logs from electronic mail or satellite distribution system, or other more expeditious and verifiable means to all dealers and distributors of the vehicles that contain the defect or noncompliance.
I think that would cover them having a pop up on the dashboard as long as they were confident that the driver couldn’t miss it and they could log that it was seen.
Readit News
Nothing was actually broken but regulators just insist on more alerts and Tesla just implemented those and is rolling them out with a routine software update. But that's a less dramatic headline.
Actual recalls are less frequent unless there is a hardware problem like the wheels falling of a toyota: https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/toyota-recalls-bz4x-electric-...
Some, manufacturers of course don't have the ability to do OTA updates for their cars and need to recall the car to perform software updates. Especially firmware of components sourced from third parties (e.g. engine software) is usually a bit more tricky. Even with manufacturers that do have OTA updates, it's often limited to just the entertainment software.
Tesla doesn't have that issue because they design components in house and don't have a lot of external software suppliers (if any at all). So, they can fix just about any software issue with over the air updates and make the car better over time. Some of the Chinese EV manufacturers do the same. But more manufacturers should do that.
"Tesla recall: nothing actually broken"
"Other manufacturer recalls: wheels falling off"
If I look at the recalls for my cars, they're far more mundane. "A passenger detection module may not detect a passenger. The vehicle will automatically deploy air bags in that seat position". "The passenger side camera may get foggy in cold weather".
And I don't think throwing shade at Toyota there helps a lot. Perhaps remember that Tesla has shipped vehicles with missing brake pads, unglued windshields, etc.
With a cup of coffee it feels a bit more like "take them into a service center to fix them" but even that is far larger than the truth.
And that’s because most people have no idea that recalls resolved trough OTA are even a thing. Makes sense to me that a lot of people wouldn’t be aware, since OTA updates aren’t entirely common in cars yet.
As for “why”, since “it is still a recall, the only difference is how it is addressed”? Because to an actual person dealing with a recall, it makes a significant difference whether they gotta drive somewhere and leave their car there to get fixed vs. their car autoupdating OTA overnight while the car is parked safely at home.
With Tesla no action on your end is required. The car will download the fix and apply it automatically.
Deleted Comment
To help you better understand in the future:
> A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards.
edit: corrected autopilot (cruise control) -> self driving
> I got a software update that seemed to add auto steer to my non-autopilot model y.
All (edit: new since 2019) Teslas come with autopilot. “Full self driving” is an add on.
> I tried it a few times on the highway but it seemed erratic (switching off randomly and dangerously engaging regenerative brakes in the fast lane)
“Switching off” usually means that it can’t identify the lane it’s supposed to be in. Was this some sort of a rural highway, a highway under construction, and/or a poorly maintained road?
The braking is called “phantom braking”, and (since a very good update in spring 2022) usually only occurs when there is some sort of substantial deceptive visual issue like oil lines, asphalt sealant, a reflection of the sun, or visual mirages (when the road looks shiny/reflective due to temp diffs).
For me personally, phantom braking only happens on a couple of (crappy) roads at certain spots for me, so I just don’t use AP at those spots.
In general, AP is super consistent. Other than an overdone name, it works really well. If it was just called “advanced cruise control”, people wouldn’t be shitting themselves over the feature. It’s just adaptive cruise control with lane assist, two features that many cars have, and Teslas happens to have implemented quite well (imho).
"Government Regulators Force Tesla to Add New Warning Language to Autopilot Software" would be so much more accurate, but wouldn't have the same negative connotation
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/24/is-recall-really-the-ri...
> Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners.
I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading
surprise
Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks.
(Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)
The automaker is required by law to correct it.
That does not mean the car must physically go in, it’s just that until recently that’s how everyone did it because they didn’t have OTA updates.
A recall is still a recall.
Deleted Comment
It's not clickbait, that's ridiculous. The essence of the article is the results of the investigation. NHSTA has a process, they investigated and issued a recall. The fact that it can be fixed OTA doesn't change the intent of what's happening. I mean, at what point does the first comment stop being, "It's not a recall!" Who cares.
I'm more interested in the obvious questions, like: does the update actually make anything safer? If it's so easy, why didn't Tesla do it on their own?
But imagine one of those massive castings developing cracks and needing some reinforcements welded on in the field, or really any part. FEA is probably the most important tech that Tesla is dependent on.
This recall is specifically targeted at the system that monitors if the driver is paying attention.
That's how it encourages the driver to pay attention!
TBH, this sounds like... not much. The alerts will be louder and more prominent, and maybe it can't be turned on close to stop signs or traffic lights now. Not that engaging it there was normal before. :shrug
The so-called "FSD" feature seems to be unaffected, since its operational domain was already different.
I assume OTAs for planes have a strict process defined or approved by the FAA which needs to be followed. Does the NTSB have such a thing in place or is it just the wild west?
Conspiracy theories aren't necessary. Just regular competitive market forces will explain it.
As if the purpose of the headline is just to make people think this is a massive product recall.
Tesla routinely pushes software updates. This one, however, is different. It’s the result of a multi-year NHTSA investigation, and it’s legally a recall.
The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act gives NHTSA the authority to require manufacturers to recall vehicles that have safety-related defects. Just because this recall is being addressed through an OTA software update doesn’t make it not a recall.
"Autosteer is intended for use on controlled-access highways with a fully attentive driver. Do not use Autosteer in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present."
GM and Ford both restrict their systems to controlled access highways, and are hands free when doing so. I wish Tesla would do something similar.
> In the case of a notification required to be sent by a motor vehicle manufacturer, by certified mail, verifiable electronic means such as receipts or logs from electronic mail or satellite distribution system, or other more expeditious and verifiable means to all dealers and distributors of the vehicles that contain the defect or noncompliance.
I think that would cover them having a pop up on the dashboard as long as they were confident that the driver couldn’t miss it and they could log that it was seen.