I've recently been working on breaking my bad habit of getting home from work each day, taking out my phone, and then looking up 4 hours later to realize all my free time for the night has been consumed by The Algorithm. It's been pretty rough going so far. I find it particularly soul-crushing because I do have things that I consciously want to do during that time, like write music and film short films, but those things take effort and commitment, so instead I spend night after night doomscrolling Twitter/Reddit/YouTube/HN.
I am hopeful, though, that I can break out of it. Last night, I even put together a little song. Sure, I only spent an hour on it, but that was an hour that I didn't spend on the Internet! I'm looking forward to the day I can say with certainty that I live on 24 hours a day.
A few weeks ago I realized I had spent half of my life with high speed Internet, and half without. I tried to think of all the memorable experiences I'd had with computers, and pretty much every one I could think of[1] were from the pre-high speed Internet era. Most were from before having any Internet.
I mentioned this to a similar aged friend, and he thought about it and said it applied to him too.
Which leads to the question: Why am I spending so much time on the Internet? I spend a lot more time on the computer. Where is it going and why am I no longer enjoying it?
What did I do pre-Internet?
- Played games. Lots and lots of them. When I was younger I often felt I had played too many games and bemoaned the time lost. Looking back now at so many good experiences I had with games, I don't regret it one bit. I should get back into playing games (I stopped a long time ago).
- Wrote code for fun. Wrote simple silly games. Wrote programs to produce the Mandelbrot fractal. Today I write code to help me solve problems, but not for fun.
- Toyed with programs like POV-Ray
- Generally explored interesting SW
What do I do today on the computer?
- Read articles
- Write code to solve problems (automate boring tasks, improve my web site, etc)
- Email
- Productivity related stuff (TODO management, finances, etc).
- Looking up stuff (Google Maps, Yelp, Stackoverflow)
- Shopping, online banking, paying bills, scheduling medical appointments, booking flights, etc.
I'd say perhaps 90% of that time is using the browser. Getting a consistent interface is pretty much an experience killer.
I've certainly learned a lot with all that reading. And my code I write really does solve problems. But none of it is fun or memorable.
Conclusion? I traded enjoyable experiences for utility. It was not a good trade.
Hey, I wanted to pitch in to say I've been through the same train of thought the past 3-6 months. After realising that I've had access to high speed internet for the past 20 years and analysing why I'm feeling progressively worse with my usage of it.
I came to the same conclusion: even though browsing through HN, Reddit and so on for the past 10-12 years has been immensely useful for some parts of my life (some hobbies, my profession, very interesting articles I got exposed to) I noticed that the past 3-4 years I have been very unhappy with my consumption.
It got worse after I stopped to analyse it, I noticed these past months that I'm actually addicted to the loop of instant reward that reading something passably interesting pushes me to. Forcing myself to not read HN or my favourite subreddits for a day or two causes very similar symptoms of withdrawal that I had when quitting smoking, actually it's a pretty good parallel to me: if I use it I feel like crap and guilty afterwards, if I don't use it I feel like crap and unfulfilled.
It's been a really hard realisation, hard and scary to be honest.
Instead of calling a doctor's office, we're fighting a badly built online scheduler. Obsessively scrutinising restaurant reviews on GMaps takes away from the subtle excitement of flaneuring. Reflexively reaching for Wikipedia as soon as something not immediately known pops up in a conversation kills it immediately.
It's an empty life.
Luckily, it's easy to simply not do many of these things once you're aware of them. Email is near compulsory to function, Yelp reviews are not.
There are rarely recognized negative factors associated with having ultra high bandwidth instant response impulse satisfaction on tap.
I used to read a book a day. I used to ponder curiosities in more depth until I could piece together conclusions from library visits and talking to people f2f or on the phone; long held interests and sustained human relationships would oftentimes result as a side effect. I used to spend a lot more time outdoors.
There are trade offs to instantaneous information access and I am going to try and mitigate them as a belated New Year resolution.
I spend as much time playing games now (as an adult) as another person might do watching TV or on Instagram/tabloid media, and probably 1/3 of that time is spent playing multiplayer games with friends I've had for years who live in different places that I can't just hop in the car and go visit.
My coding experience has changed though; I work in video games so I spend my day doing "creative" coding and have almost 0 interest in continuing that outside of work. Intetestingly when I was a teenager I had little to no interest in studying languages or literature; all i wanted to do was code and play games. Now that I am "forced" to code all day, I look forward to reading, watching movies and seeing shows; all the things I was forced to do as a kid for school.
> I traded enjoyable experiences for utility. It was not a good trade.
I was looking at QWERTY keyboard options for my iPad when I realized, "if I'm doing something on this that requires that level of typing, I've made a mistake".
I noticed I use social media (mostly) for information discovery. I asked myself what information I’m trying to discover and worked backwards to a healthier relationship with that discovery mechanism from there. Ended up with Wikipedia and then tried to build a similar mechanism as social media scrolling on top.
It’s an alternative to doom scrolling social media for me, where the fun facts are actually fun, little to no social outrage, and there isn’t any FOMO - the same content will always be there tomorrow.
This is so cool! I'm definitely going to share this with my social groups. I am definitely guilty of using information seeking as a form of procrastination- I feel as though as long as I am learning I am not wasting my time but without the implementation of a to do list I slowly stop getting anything done besides reading in depth about different topics.
> I find it particularly soul-crushing because I do have things that I consciously want to do during that time, like write music and film short films, but those things take effort and commitment, so instead I spend night after night doomscrolling Twitter/Reddit/YouTube/HN.
The things that you want to do might be too difficult to begin. Some part of your brain doesn't know that you can write music or make films successfully enough to gain any reward. The mental hurdle is very big if you just stare at a blank sheet music.
Instead, start with something smaller and more structured. Take some lessons, for instance, and do assignments which you know will lead to some form of product.
I did a cool experiment a few years ago called "Song Bits". I used to write a lot of music but can't get anything done-done anymore, so I set this challenge: Write a snippet of music every day for a month.
The parameters were very strict:
* target ~30 seconds in length
* solo piano only
* no post production
* spend ~30 minutes of effort per day
I was really happy with the results, and it was fun!
And cut off the free dopamine sources. Make your phone's screen black and white. Use an extension to block Twitter, reddit, YouTube and HN. Learn to be bored again like when you were young.
I almost feel like Gaming is better than Scrolling at this point. Of course, Reading a Book is probably better still, and has almost the same escapism potential, but also a lot less bad for your eyes and brain.
I have a tendency to listen to audiobooks about a variety of subjects while I game, scroll, drive, and do other chores in the interest of maximizing my enjoyment time and my educational goals. I do feel as though I get a lot of pleasure from this action but also worry that I'm slowly eradicating my already finicky attention span.
Reading is less bad for your eyes? When I game it's usually on a console it's 2 to 3 meters from me eyes. When I read the book is 20cm and I know it's bad for my eyes because I find it hard to focus after I look up from the book :P
I like your use of "The Algorithm." I think every one of us has an issue with The Algorithm, its just a difference of UI depending on which addicting service is the problem.
Yes, exactly. I would say that without moderation even the deep delving of information can be a tool for procrastination that is more easily justifiable to yourself for why you never seem to make any progress on your goals.
Get a tally counter and count every time you have an urge to scroll, watch another video, or refresh Reddit. Write a daily log of your counter. Every time you feel the urge, pause for 10 seconds and then consciously decide if you want to do that or not. It’s a lot of work at the beginning but I guarantee you’ll get your attention back.
Once I act like that (F5 F5) chances are that I don’t have much energy left for deliberate action. So the advice seems to be: do this deliberate action every time you are out of energy. That doesn’t make sense.
I recently moved all Algorithmic Distractions on to a purpose-bought iPad and blocked them from all other devices. This has been useful in helping me distinguish when I'm wasting time or not, and meant I need to be physically using the iPad to distract myself, rather than just having distractions there on my phone or computer
Mentally: It’s actually not that hard, you’re over thinking it. Just do anything else than the thing you don’t want to do. The thing you fall back on is a habit. It is one thing you do over and over, instead of the infinite other things you could otherwise be doing. Recognize in life these fallback habits and do something different. Take the same road to work? Take a different route one day. By breaking habits you open your world to infinite possibilities.
Physically: put your phone in your bedroom or wherever you keep it when you go to sleep. Don’t be in that room till you go to sleep. You break the habit of normally having the phone with you all the time. See what happens when it’s not.
Mentally: It is that hard. Executive dysfunction and ADHD are both fully understood physiological disorders that are only the domain of psych because the symptoms are psychological in their manifestation.
A would wager a fair amount of these people will be doomscrolling because they essentially have too little, or too much, dopamine, and while there are ways to get the body to prompt creation of it, often there are tangible problems in the number of neurotransmitters or the amount that is created that can cause this.
For example: Often I want to take a shower, but end up sitting on my bed for hours, essentially unable to move to complete my task. I wondered for a long time if this was me, if I just tried hard enough, maybe I could beat it. But the fact is, it isn't -- it's a tangible and measurable problem with the way my body functions that stops me from being able to move to complete the task.
The poster's description of this above sounds extremely, alarmingly similar to my experience, and those of my friends and coworkers with it. Personally, I wonder whether the widespread, common, and societally endorsed distribution of caffeine and nicotine -- both stimulants, have effects on the developing child. It would explain the sheer prevalence of it, and also the prevalance of the stimulants, as stimulants are drugs that are prescribed for managing ADHD* :)
* - most people who are diagnosed are found to already be weakly medicating themselves with stimulants!
This is precisely the thing I figured out when I finally eventually quit a long-term weed dependence: do anything else. It does not matter what it is (well, within reason). At first, I spent a lot of time staring at the walls, literally, simply resisting the urge.
> I do have things that I consciously want to do during that time, like write music and film short films, but those things take effort and commitment, so instead I spend night after night doomscrolling Twitter/Reddit/YouTube/HN.
Are the things you want to do actually rest and relax to you? Maybe you are trying to turn your life into 80 hours crunch and overwork. And it will have the exact same effects as working that much on a job.
People were not 100% pre-mobile phones. We read junk books, journals, watched tv, socialized, played soccer, spent a lot of time daydreaming.
I don't think either of those are ideal. Your brain does need some rest time, rather than getting home and getting right back on to high mental intensity activities, consider just going outside for a walk. You can let your brain rest while walking, it improves your mental and physical health, and is a much better use of time than reddit.
I have mentioned this before, but I have trouble starting things. At one point it reached pathological levels and I had to do something.
What I found out researching on the internet was the idea of committing to do something for just 10 minutes, then I am free to stop or not. Often I find that I don't want to stop, sometimes I do. If I do stop, that is absolutely fine too.
At the risk of oversimplifying this, why don't you just stick your phone in a drawer when you get home?
I do that (and when possible, put it in another room entirely) when I want to get some focused work done. Same goes for when it's bedtime, which has done good things for my sleep quality.
Just dump the infernal thing for a while and see where your brain takes you.
Possibly off topic but could this be procrastination more than an addiction to the Algo?
I've found my procrastination stems from a fear of failure. Maybe you doom scroll instead of do these other things because your afraid you'll 'fail' at them and feel bad rather than because they are effort and commitment.
One tip I can give you: Give yourself small, achievable (!) goals for each day. Nothing too fancy, nothing you need to put in hours of research before you can complete them, just something.
And then execute it. Each and every day, without failing. Sometimes you do more because you're "in the flow" on others you do the bare minimum.
I am doing this with my fitness routine for over 2 years now (started pre-COVID) and it does wonders to my brain and my overall well-being. Because I am committed. I have a streak for over two years (when I got vaccinated, I did more the days before and took a few days off - the minimum was kept for every single day, just not executed on every single day. Only exception: Vaccination) and I feel motivated not to break it.
This reminds me of a book I've read a couple of times now, The Power of Full Engagement. Their very similar concept is that the limiting factor in most of our lives isn't really time, but energy. As described in the OP, most of us have experience evenings that felt wasted because we're too tired from work to do anything valuable, but trying to cram value into every moment of life also feels exhausting. The basic take of the book is that every area of our life needs periods of exertion and periods of rest, much like the body does in order to build muscle. The same is true of the mind and the emotional self. So for each of these realms, you ideally want to be either fully engaged, or fully at rest, not somewhere in-between. Then it gives various techniques to achieve this. One I liked in particular is to take opportunities that might otherwise be frustrating - stuck in traffic, in line at the bank, whatever - and see them as instead a time for mental rest.
Anyway, might be a good read. FWIW I'm a big fan of GTD as well. Used properly I think a system like that can be a good complement to this philosophy. When it's time to work, you grab a task from your list and get right to it. And when it's not time to work, you can free your brain of any related distractions, confident that everything you need to remember will be in your GTD system when you need it again. (Likewise if you have a stray idea that you want to remember, instead of holding it in your brain, it can go in there.) Helps keep work (and by that I mean any jobs that need to be done, not just the 9-5) from dominating your thoughts all the time.
This. I'm surprised we still fall for the "use every waking hour productively" bs when it's clear once you try to implement it that really energy is the limiting factor, not time. Burnout is a real, you need to think seriously about rest.
If you liked this article, the book Lost in Thought[0] also references Bennet and goes into more depth on why spending some of your time learning for its own sake leads to a more fulfilling life.
I’d love more content like this on hn. Done right, tech jobs can afford a lot of leisure, and we don’t have generally good guidance from our culture on how to spend leisure time in a fulfilling way.
Thank you for this recommendation!
I’d love to see more content like this too. Also I’d love to see more exploration of how those of us with young kids or other caring responsibilities can get a better balance and still keep pursuing learning for its’ own sake.
I have to say, making myself read before bed (I no longer need to make myself do it, I look forward to it) was a major game changer a couple years ago.
I was pretty distraught because I was effectively diagnosed with a mental disability and was suddenly confronted with the reality of what I’d been living with. It was crushing to my self esteem in a way. I always knew something was wrong, but now there was this professionally diagnosed wart on my identity and self esteem. I felt pretty hopeless.
I began reading about it. I began reading about self esteem, identity, introspection, and how to generally navigate this change in my life. I got into philosophy. I got into psychology. I began reading about childhood psychology specifically to understand better how my strengths and weaknesses might impact my kids. How could I manage my brain better in order to be a better dad for them? What mistakes had I already made than I could try to correct?
I’ve become so much better for it. I still read the dry stuff because I love it, but I weave in fiction here and there as well. I’ve always got a couple books I’m excited to read. I use a kindle at the lowest light setting with no lights on.
My rule is that it can’t be about work and it can’t be about a hobby, or I’m not giving myself a break and/or I won’t be able to stop reading. The goal is to read myself to sleep, not get too engaged (at least not too often).
This does three things. It expands my mind, keeps me from doom scrolling, and it greatly improves my ability to get to sleep. These reinforce each other and the benefits really compound.
I’m not a super-person now or anything. I’m just less dumb, usually better rested, and a little happier for it.
I can’t recommend a night time reading habit enough. Fit that into your 24 hours. Reading and exercise.
When I moved into my new home about 18 months ago I decided to forego putting a television in my bedroom. Instead I throw a [wireless] earbud in and listen to a podcast or audio book set to a 30-minute sleep timer. I know this is not perfect, but is at least a step in the right direction as I very rarely am awake when the timer goes off. However, I don't feel that I retain much of the information. Do you feel like you retain most of what you have read before going to bed? Also, do you prefer print or ebooks?
Nice, that’s a great step in the right direction. I’ve tried audiobooks but I find they keep me up more, somehow. It’s almost like listening wakes up my brain more than reading. If they didn’t I think that would be a great alternative to reading at night.
Haha, those are good questions regarding retention and ebooks vs. paper books.
As far as retention, I think I do a lot better than I expected. I’m not sure how it works out so well. As I’m falling asleep (this figures into the next question) I tend to do weird things like skip several pages or even change the font size accidentally, which totally throws me off of my position in the book. However I tend to recall very well where I left off and find the location fairly easily. Even so, it’s pretty annoying, haha.
Because of that I really do prefer paper books in that I tend to put them down and have a distinct transition to sleep, meaning it’s hard to lose my spot or doubt my retention. I also notice and recall page numbers subconsciously so forgetting a book mark is no big deal anyway.
Unfortunately I need light to read a book, and that almost always causes me to stay awake longer. It’s a tough call. Paper books are better in nearly every way besides portability and the light factor. And of course the environment, too - I imagine I’ve saved a couple trees by now and the ebook seems bomb proof. Definitely capable of saving a few more in its lifetime.
So overall it seems like the ebook wins, especially at night. In the last several years I think I’ve read several dozen books on it and maybe close to a dozen paper books.
> In the worst case, those eight hours are frittered away. Not quite relaxing, not quite playing, not quite doing anything. We may pop Netflix on the TV and alternate between Twitter, Instagram, and the news, not quite focusing on anything. Maybe the reason feels valid. We’re too tired to really do anything but not sleepy, so it doesn’t make sense to go to bed. Besides, what else can you do on a weeknight without spending money?
I was a mentor to a college students group a while ago (pre-COVID). It was fascinating to talk to students who couldn't figure out where all of their time was going. When we'd sit down and work on time management (if necessary, and it often was), they would often struggle to even recall what they had done all week.
Almost without fail, they were all convinced that the majority of their time was going to classwork and homework. Yet when they'd do things like open up Screen Time on iOS or otherwise actually track their time during the week, they were always shocked at just how little of their time was actually spent doing some form of work. They were also often shocked at how much of their time went into their phone screens.
It was helpful for me to observe how easily free time can simply slip away when people aren't deliberate about it. In some ways it was obvious because some students could maintain jobs, intensive hobbies, sports, and other large time commitments while also handling the exact same workload. Yet even without such extra obligations, their jobless peers were perceiving as much, if not more, pressure on their time. I've since learned to be much more mindful of exactly what I'm doing with my free time. Even still, I definitely pop open HN or Twitter more than I'd like.
Also, I'd like to provide a counter-antidote to this section:
> I often find that after work I’ll be “too tired” to play with my kids, but I know my wife needs help. So I’ll find ways to be around the kids without fully interacting with them. I know that certain things elicit complaints, such as being on my computer; I avoid those, but I still find other ways to distract myself from reality. When I do this, I don’t really enjoy my time with my kids, I don’t really rest. I’m just wasting time.
Everyone is different, but I find that playing with kids actually energizes me rather than further draining anything. It's a wonderful way to reset and shift perspective. Even when I'm tired after work, I can almost always get a second wind by playing with the kids. The same can't be said for collapsing on the couch.
Playing with kids is fine if I've decided to dedicate time to it. It's when I sit around thinking of other things that I "should" be getting to that it's an emotional drag.
It's a delicate balance to find things that are rejuvenating to do when you get home from work, yet are interruptible enough that you can easily stop them when your partner needs help, or your kids want to engage. That balance changes slowly as your kids get older, too.
Unsolicited advice, but rather than thinking about what you "should" be doing, I've found it's good to train yourself to just start doing the first thing. Going into a self referential mental state is never helpful.
Sometimes sitting and just watching them (put phone on charger early) is enough. They don’t need constant interaction to know I am interested and sometimes you see things you wouldn’t if you were directing/teaching/co-playing
For many (most?) of the working people I know in New York, 8/8/8 is a fantasy (or at least was before COVID/remote work). You rise at 5 am so that you can walk your dog, make some coffee, take a shower, get ready for work, eat a banana and leave by 6 in order to catch a 6:30 train to the city (if you can find parking at the train station where you pay a high monthly parking fee). If the train is on time, and the connecting subway(s) are on time, you arrive at work by 8:30. If you are lucky enough to work only an 8 hour day (with the 1 hour for lunch that you are mandated to take and extends your day at work but is unpaid) you gather your things and leave by 5:30 pm to try to fight the crowds at Penn Station and catch the 6 o'clock train. If the subway(s) and the train are all on time you get home by 7:30 pm. You walk your dog and by now you are too tired to cook so you order food and by the time it gets there and you eat its 9 pm and if you go to sleep right now you can get 8 hours sleep.
And this is all if your day goes smoothly! If you can't find parking, the train is late, the subway is late, you have to stay longer at work or you miss the fastest train home (all things which happen multiple times per week), you are behind the 8-ball on your 8 hours! This also pushes all of the chores that have to be done (laundry, cleaning the house, getting the car serviced, mowing the lawn, taking the dog to the vet, shopping for food, ect) to the weekend which ensures that there won't be much spare time to schedule for elective activities.
This may seem like a pessimistic picture but it is reality for hundreds of thousands/millions of commuters in the NY/metro area. If you ever happen to be in New York take a ride on the LIRR or the Metro North on a weekday at 7 am to witness real misery!
Surely the issue here is living a silly distance from your office? You either move close to the office (spending more money on accommodation) or you get a job closer to home (probably sacrificing the higher salary). Both rational and possible choices.
Did it briefly, took a look at how miserable it made everyone around me, and decided very quickly I'd rather make less money and be able to live life. Have many friends who live this lifestyle and are more "well off" in the sense that they make more money and drive more expensive cars but it always seems like a tragedy to me to see them burning up years in the prime of their life that they will never get back.
A college friend wandered the dorm bleary-eyed. His aspirations were pre-med. In a moment of revelation, he noted that if he were so inclined, he could find enough material to spend every waking hour studying.
He also recognized that this was college, and he was planning to use at least some of those hours sleeping or socializing.
Therefore, he concluded, he wasn't going to "work as hard as he could" or any such phrase about maximizing one's output/accomplishment. All that remained was satisfying himself.
He went on to study music. He is a professor of musicology now. I never saw him comparably stressed thereafter.
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I am hopeful, though, that I can break out of it. Last night, I even put together a little song. Sure, I only spent an hour on it, but that was an hour that I didn't spend on the Internet! I'm looking forward to the day I can say with certainty that I live on 24 hours a day.
I mentioned this to a similar aged friend, and he thought about it and said it applied to him too.
Which leads to the question: Why am I spending so much time on the Internet? I spend a lot more time on the computer. Where is it going and why am I no longer enjoying it?
What did I do pre-Internet?
- Played games. Lots and lots of them. When I was younger I often felt I had played too many games and bemoaned the time lost. Looking back now at so many good experiences I had with games, I don't regret it one bit. I should get back into playing games (I stopped a long time ago).
- Wrote code for fun. Wrote simple silly games. Wrote programs to produce the Mandelbrot fractal. Today I write code to help me solve problems, but not for fun.
- Toyed with programs like POV-Ray
- Generally explored interesting SW
What do I do today on the computer?
- Read articles
- Write code to solve problems (automate boring tasks, improve my web site, etc)
- Email
- Productivity related stuff (TODO management, finances, etc).
- Looking up stuff (Google Maps, Yelp, Stackoverflow)
- Shopping, online banking, paying bills, scheduling medical appointments, booking flights, etc.
I'd say perhaps 90% of that time is using the browser. Getting a consistent interface is pretty much an experience killer.
I've certainly learned a lot with all that reading. And my code I write really does solve problems. But none of it is fun or memorable.
Conclusion? I traded enjoyable experiences for utility. It was not a good trade.
[1] And I could think of many!
I came to the same conclusion: even though browsing through HN, Reddit and so on for the past 10-12 years has been immensely useful for some parts of my life (some hobbies, my profession, very interesting articles I got exposed to) I noticed that the past 3-4 years I have been very unhappy with my consumption.
It got worse after I stopped to analyse it, I noticed these past months that I'm actually addicted to the loop of instant reward that reading something passably interesting pushes me to. Forcing myself to not read HN or my favourite subreddits for a day or two causes very similar symptoms of withdrawal that I had when quitting smoking, actually it's a pretty good parallel to me: if I use it I feel like crap and guilty afterwards, if I don't use it I feel like crap and unfulfilled.
It's been a really hard realisation, hard and scary to be honest.
Instead of calling a doctor's office, we're fighting a badly built online scheduler. Obsessively scrutinising restaurant reviews on GMaps takes away from the subtle excitement of flaneuring. Reflexively reaching for Wikipedia as soon as something not immediately known pops up in a conversation kills it immediately.
It's an empty life.
Luckily, it's easy to simply not do many of these things once you're aware of them. Email is near compulsory to function, Yelp reviews are not.
There are rarely recognized negative factors associated with having ultra high bandwidth instant response impulse satisfaction on tap.
I used to read a book a day. I used to ponder curiosities in more depth until I could piece together conclusions from library visits and talking to people f2f or on the phone; long held interests and sustained human relationships would oftentimes result as a side effect. I used to spend a lot more time outdoors.
There are trade offs to instantaneous information access and I am going to try and mitigate them as a belated New Year resolution.
Nowadays, I have the hardest time to focus. I'd love to regain my past ability to focus.
I spend as much time playing games now (as an adult) as another person might do watching TV or on Instagram/tabloid media, and probably 1/3 of that time is spent playing multiplayer games with friends I've had for years who live in different places that I can't just hop in the car and go visit.
My coding experience has changed though; I work in video games so I spend my day doing "creative" coding and have almost 0 interest in continuing that outside of work. Intetestingly when I was a teenager I had little to no interest in studying languages or literature; all i wanted to do was code and play games. Now that I am "forced" to code all day, I look forward to reading, watching movies and seeing shows; all the things I was forced to do as a kid for school.
I was looking at QWERTY keyboard options for my iPad when I realized, "if I'm doing something on this that requires that level of typing, I've made a mistake".
I built https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll partially as a habit breaker.
I noticed I use social media (mostly) for information discovery. I asked myself what information I’m trying to discover and worked backwards to a healthier relationship with that discovery mechanism from there. Ended up with Wikipedia and then tried to build a similar mechanism as social media scrolling on top.
It’s an alternative to doom scrolling social media for me, where the fun facts are actually fun, little to no social outrage, and there isn’t any FOMO - the same content will always be there tomorrow.
The things that you want to do might be too difficult to begin. Some part of your brain doesn't know that you can write music or make films successfully enough to gain any reward. The mental hurdle is very big if you just stare at a blank sheet music.
Instead, start with something smaller and more structured. Take some lessons, for instance, and do assignments which you know will lead to some form of product.
The parameters were very strict:
I was really happy with the results, and it was fun!Try meetups, concerts, trivia, etc. You'll get further in your endeavors through absorbing info irl rather than trying to create from nothing.
This is a tactic I use. Weather permitting, spending an hour out on the bicycle often pays large dividends.
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Hot take: why? Why is reading _better_ than gaming?
From an "entertainment" point of view I very much doubt it. I see it as snobbish.
From "productivity" point of view, well games have never been a productive thing so why comparing apples to oranges?
From an "educational" point of view stuff doesn't differ much that from a productivity point of view.
Then again, if you have non productive time to slot where you can do anything, why are books the "superior" choice?
Context: Yes, I do play games, but I also read 9-10 books a year.
> less bad for your brain
I guess this is obvious? I don’t see how either would be bad for that.
Physically: put your phone in your bedroom or wherever you keep it when you go to sleep. Don’t be in that room till you go to sleep. You break the habit of normally having the phone with you all the time. See what happens when it’s not.
A would wager a fair amount of these people will be doomscrolling because they essentially have too little, or too much, dopamine, and while there are ways to get the body to prompt creation of it, often there are tangible problems in the number of neurotransmitters or the amount that is created that can cause this.
For example: Often I want to take a shower, but end up sitting on my bed for hours, essentially unable to move to complete my task. I wondered for a long time if this was me, if I just tried hard enough, maybe I could beat it. But the fact is, it isn't -- it's a tangible and measurable problem with the way my body functions that stops me from being able to move to complete the task.
The poster's description of this above sounds extremely, alarmingly similar to my experience, and those of my friends and coworkers with it. Personally, I wonder whether the widespread, common, and societally endorsed distribution of caffeine and nicotine -- both stimulants, have effects on the developing child. It would explain the sheer prevalence of it, and also the prevalance of the stimulants, as stimulants are drugs that are prescribed for managing ADHD* :)
* - most people who are diagnosed are found to already be weakly medicating themselves with stimulants!
Are the things you want to do actually rest and relax to you? Maybe you are trying to turn your life into 80 hours crunch and overwork. And it will have the exact same effects as working that much on a job.
People were not 100% pre-mobile phones. We read junk books, journals, watched tv, socialized, played soccer, spent a lot of time daydreaming.
If that happens then play: pen and paper and no plan, doodle something. Or pace around. Be bored! Go for a walk.
I heavily a doubt a human can be mentally healthy with time consuming hobbies and a 40hour plus job.
What I found out researching on the internet was the idea of committing to do something for just 10 minutes, then I am free to stop or not. Often I find that I don't want to stop, sometimes I do. If I do stop, that is absolutely fine too.
For everything else, there is beeminder.
I do that (and when possible, put it in another room entirely) when I want to get some focused work done. Same goes for when it's bedtime, which has done good things for my sleep quality.
Just dump the infernal thing for a while and see where your brain takes you.
I've found my procrastination stems from a fear of failure. Maybe you doom scroll instead of do these other things because your afraid you'll 'fail' at them and feel bad rather than because they are effort and commitment.
Probably a bad idea, but could be fun anyways...
[1] https://youtu.be/TaZ8CLTQ_1M
And then execute it. Each and every day, without failing. Sometimes you do more because you're "in the flow" on others you do the bare minimum.
I am doing this with my fitness routine for over 2 years now (started pre-COVID) and it does wonders to my brain and my overall well-being. Because I am committed. I have a streak for over two years (when I got vaccinated, I did more the days before and took a few days off - the minimum was kept for every single day, just not executed on every single day. Only exception: Vaccination) and I feel motivated not to break it.
This recurrent approach worked wonders for me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/routines/bwf...
I'm not sure how much of my motivation is the constant progress I'm making and how I will keep the motivation once progress slows down.
Anyway, might be a good read. FWIW I'm a big fan of GTD as well. Used properly I think a system like that can be a good complement to this philosophy. When it's time to work, you grab a task from your list and get right to it. And when it's not time to work, you can free your brain of any related distractions, confident that everything you need to remember will be in your GTD system when you need it again. (Likewise if you have a stray idea that you want to remember, instead of holding it in your brain, it can go in there.) Helps keep work (and by that I mean any jobs that need to be done, not just the 9-5) from dominating your thoughts all the time.
Conversely many things which are in principle exertion can actually have restorative effect.
I’d love more content like this on hn. Done right, tech jobs can afford a lot of leisure, and we don’t have generally good guidance from our culture on how to spend leisure time in a fulfilling way.
[0]https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691178714/lo...
I was pretty distraught because I was effectively diagnosed with a mental disability and was suddenly confronted with the reality of what I’d been living with. It was crushing to my self esteem in a way. I always knew something was wrong, but now there was this professionally diagnosed wart on my identity and self esteem. I felt pretty hopeless.
I began reading about it. I began reading about self esteem, identity, introspection, and how to generally navigate this change in my life. I got into philosophy. I got into psychology. I began reading about childhood psychology specifically to understand better how my strengths and weaknesses might impact my kids. How could I manage my brain better in order to be a better dad for them? What mistakes had I already made than I could try to correct?
I’ve become so much better for it. I still read the dry stuff because I love it, but I weave in fiction here and there as well. I’ve always got a couple books I’m excited to read. I use a kindle at the lowest light setting with no lights on.
My rule is that it can’t be about work and it can’t be about a hobby, or I’m not giving myself a break and/or I won’t be able to stop reading. The goal is to read myself to sleep, not get too engaged (at least not too often).
This does three things. It expands my mind, keeps me from doom scrolling, and it greatly improves my ability to get to sleep. These reinforce each other and the benefits really compound.
I’m not a super-person now or anything. I’m just less dumb, usually better rested, and a little happier for it.
I can’t recommend a night time reading habit enough. Fit that into your 24 hours. Reading and exercise.
Haha, those are good questions regarding retention and ebooks vs. paper books.
As far as retention, I think I do a lot better than I expected. I’m not sure how it works out so well. As I’m falling asleep (this figures into the next question) I tend to do weird things like skip several pages or even change the font size accidentally, which totally throws me off of my position in the book. However I tend to recall very well where I left off and find the location fairly easily. Even so, it’s pretty annoying, haha.
Because of that I really do prefer paper books in that I tend to put them down and have a distinct transition to sleep, meaning it’s hard to lose my spot or doubt my retention. I also notice and recall page numbers subconsciously so forgetting a book mark is no big deal anyway.
Unfortunately I need light to read a book, and that almost always causes me to stay awake longer. It’s a tough call. Paper books are better in nearly every way besides portability and the light factor. And of course the environment, too - I imagine I’ve saved a couple trees by now and the ebook seems bomb proof. Definitely capable of saving a few more in its lifetime.
So overall it seems like the ebook wins, especially at night. In the last several years I think I’ve read several dozen books on it and maybe close to a dozen paper books.
It's also, curiosly, easier for me to follow written instructions, compared to spoken (at work for example).
I was a mentor to a college students group a while ago (pre-COVID). It was fascinating to talk to students who couldn't figure out where all of their time was going. When we'd sit down and work on time management (if necessary, and it often was), they would often struggle to even recall what they had done all week.
Almost without fail, they were all convinced that the majority of their time was going to classwork and homework. Yet when they'd do things like open up Screen Time on iOS or otherwise actually track their time during the week, they were always shocked at just how little of their time was actually spent doing some form of work. They were also often shocked at how much of their time went into their phone screens.
It was helpful for me to observe how easily free time can simply slip away when people aren't deliberate about it. In some ways it was obvious because some students could maintain jobs, intensive hobbies, sports, and other large time commitments while also handling the exact same workload. Yet even without such extra obligations, their jobless peers were perceiving as much, if not more, pressure on their time. I've since learned to be much more mindful of exactly what I'm doing with my free time. Even still, I definitely pop open HN or Twitter more than I'd like.
Also, I'd like to provide a counter-antidote to this section:
> I often find that after work I’ll be “too tired” to play with my kids, but I know my wife needs help. So I’ll find ways to be around the kids without fully interacting with them. I know that certain things elicit complaints, such as being on my computer; I avoid those, but I still find other ways to distract myself from reality. When I do this, I don’t really enjoy my time with my kids, I don’t really rest. I’m just wasting time.
Everyone is different, but I find that playing with kids actually energizes me rather than further draining anything. It's a wonderful way to reset and shift perspective. Even when I'm tired after work, I can almost always get a second wind by playing with the kids. The same can't be said for collapsing on the couch.
And this is all if your day goes smoothly! If you can't find parking, the train is late, the subway is late, you have to stay longer at work or you miss the fastest train home (all things which happen multiple times per week), you are behind the 8-ball on your 8 hours! This also pushes all of the chores that have to be done (laundry, cleaning the house, getting the car serviced, mowing the lawn, taking the dog to the vet, shopping for food, ect) to the weekend which ensures that there won't be much spare time to schedule for elective activities.
This may seem like a pessimistic picture but it is reality for hundreds of thousands/millions of commuters in the NY/metro area. If you ever happen to be in New York take a ride on the LIRR or the Metro North on a weekday at 7 am to witness real misery!
He also recognized that this was college, and he was planning to use at least some of those hours sleeping or socializing.
Therefore, he concluded, he wasn't going to "work as hard as he could" or any such phrase about maximizing one's output/accomplishment. All that remained was satisfying himself.
He went on to study music. He is a professor of musicology now. I never saw him comparably stressed thereafter.