I'm planing on taking some serious time off to work on my side projects.
I'm open to any country in the world, I want to just work on my games. So with that in mind I'll need good internet access. From what I can see, this is very doable in Eastern Europe.
Eventually, I do plan on returning to the US, but I want to spend at least 6 months overseas.
Housing is probably the biggest living expense. I take advantage of Korea's interesting rental system called Cheonsae:
Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out. My place has a $50 monthly management fee, but that includes high-speed internet. (So I joke that I get free housing with my internet.)
Of course, there is an opportunity cost because that deposit could have generated interest, but I figure the break-even point is 12% APY. (It is possible to lower the deposit by increasing monthly rent.) So it's advantageous to take out a bank loan at 2-4% interest to pay for the deposit.
There is a small risk you won't be able to get your deposit back if the owner mismanages their finances. I believe the Korean government actually guarantees housing deposits up to $50,0000 or so. In Korea, the tenants actually do background checks on the landlords! The minimum deposit is usually $10,000, so landlords usually don't scrutinize tenants.
ETA: Nomadlist suggests €1,925/mo for Seoul, €1,530/mo for Jeju Island, South Korea; €1,047/mo for Tbilisi, Georgia; €627/mo for Bandung, Indonesia.
ETA: Nomadlist has a list of places below USD 1000/mo: https://nomadlist.com/places-on-a-budget
If you want a big city you can still do Busan, daegu, ulsan etc
That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved there? Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the money in such a way as to get a return that would be equivalent to rent but also safe enough so that they can return the deposit. I don't think I'd want to be a landlord there.
Now interest rates are much lower, but Koreans got used to paying $0 rent and anything above that feels like they are being ripped off.
One reason landlords like the system is because they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd property to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
Even if landlords don't receive monthly rent, they expect to earn money on the increased value of the property. Cheonsae contracts are normally 2 years, then they can ask for more deposit or sell the property for a profit.
More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse
I was thinking the same, but here's another way of framing it: they're like real estate agents [1] in the US, except that instead of keeping a 2.5%–5% commission at every sale, they keep the capital gains. They may not need to invest deposits at all to make money.
To me renting under this system doesn't seem clearly better than buying. You're paying most of the money to buy the property, but it's not an investment. You can't come out ahead. But at least there's no risk or hassle of doing property maintenance.
[edit: no, I just saw yongjik's comment: "Under the 'jeonse' system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place. (There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)" I don't think I'd like to rent under this system at all.]
[1] and property managers who handle repairs and such, but that's probably not how they make their money at $50/month.
It's actually greatly favorable to landlords. Just think about what happens when one side is out of money. Under the monthly rent system, landlords can't get any more money until they evict the renter (which is a lot of hassle, anywhere in the world). Under the "jeonse" system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place.
(There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)
I wouldn't do it unless I had a partner who is already a citizen , but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
How much is rent if I didn't want to deposit that much ?
Housing costs will vary greatly depending on location. $90,000 is in Gimpo, just outside of Seoul. Busan is probably half the cost of Seoul, and outside any major metro areas it's probably even lower.
Also even within the same real estate market prices vary greatly depending on the neighborhood, type, and size of unit. Another major factor is distance to nearest public transportation (subway).
Another thing to note is since monthly rent is usually more profitable for landowners, there is a movement away from the cheonsae system. However, I was still able to find plenty of options exactly one year ago.
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- $10,000 additional deposit reduces monthly rent by $50.
- 50 * 12 = 600
- 600/10,000 = 6%
The monthly rent reduction used to be $100 per $10,000. So it used to be 12%. I guess the break-even point is 6%, now...
Concrete example: I could reduce the deposit from $90,000 to $10,000. But then my rent would go from $0/month to $400/month. So by keeping a large deposit, I save $4800/year in rent.
I haven't blogged in a long time, but here are the Korea-related blog posts:
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-prologue.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/past-month-in-review.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-chapter-i.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/08/dragon-flies-and-praying-man...
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/09/how-to-eat-korean-food.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/10/october-update-whats-good-in...
Leaseholders are called "homeowners" but they don't really own the home in the normal sense and are closer to long term renters in their rights.
A freeholder is basically renting out a house for 99 years and the leaseholder has to pay all the rent upfront (+ renewal). On the upside, if the freeholder wants to sell the house he's required to offer it to the leaseholder first.
Housing returns:https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w24112/w241... S&P : https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...
I can easily imagine somewhere outside Seoul/Jeju/Busan being surprisingly affordable
And I was a little fast and loose with the KRW-USD conversion. I opted for the simple 1USD == 1000KRW, so the actual numbers are a little higher.
What would the equivalent rent have been for the place you live in for free (with 90k deposit)?
In nominal terms the S&P500 would do 10% a year or so on average. Over the past decade it's been 14.7%, so that $90k would've returned 13k a year on average.
In general I feel South Korea has been a great value for money location, if you bring external capital. If I compare it to neighbouring Japan for example, prices seem so much more affordable. Of course the working culture is not easy, but for OP it'd be a great choice.
The general rule is $50/rent per $10,000 deposit, however it's up to the landlord. I think my place was actually more like $80,000 deposit + $100 rent (vs. $50). I recall the different options with rent fit the formula, but there was a big drop in rent if it was all deposit and no monthly rent. Maybe the owner preferred avoiding the hassle of collecting monthly rent (still have to collect monthly management fee, though...)
When calculating the real estate commission, the formula is used to arrive at a total value for the transaction. So the real estate broker's cut is the same whether the rent is big or small. And I think the commission is the same whether it's a rental or purchase.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with jeonsae unless somebody else is paying for it (parents, employer, bank), keep your money in your favorite speculative investment instead.
If I was going to live in a Major city anywhere,Seoul would be in the top 2 along with Tokyo
For me, the biggest hurdle was saving up the deposit. Koreans have easy access to cheonsae loans at 2-4% interest rates. It's very difficult for foreigners to get a loan in Korea.
$10,000 deposit used to be converted to $100 rent (to get 12%). It's now only $50 rent. (Although in my case I think it still was $100/12%).
So you're giving them a usurious loan basically.
Also, Poland should be a great place to actually run your game studio company from, as the tax on "IT innovation" (should not be hard to include games in this category) is only 6% - everything after that ends up in your pocket (i.e. no further dividend tax etc is required).
Assuming you won't be getting a car, public transit and Uber/taxis are affordable as well - a 5 km trip via Uber should perhaps be around $4.
I suspect other countries in the region should have similar numbers. Healthcare system and tax incentives should definitely be the biggest differentiator.
That said, I’d you’re not white and straight, small towns could be very unwelcoming, from people staring, to telling you to go, to physical violence. Rare but true.
During my last visit, wireless phone service was super in the major cities...even better than Canada's.
As a tourist, Poland was a pretty big bang on my money: Equivalent item from the west for 1/3 of the cost while enjoying modern amenities. But I can see non Polish speakers would have difficulties living there in the longer term. During my trips, I insisted on travelling with at least one native Polish speaker.
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I live in Żary (Tier-3 City), which is near Żagań. Quick overview:
- small city is quite cheap. Prices said by @burntoutfire are right
- there are around 2000 US soldiers hanging around here. So you won't be alone :) if someone told you that small cities in eastern europe may be intolerant (or unsafe or unwelcoming) for travelers - it's not here. Here Everyone thinks that every American met is a soldier with combat training ;)
- internet is cheap and stable. mobile is cheap and stable (comparing to US or western Europe). In almost every place you can pay using credit card.
- ecommerce is working great here. Delivery takes 1 working day. Parcel lockers are on every corner of Poland already :)
- it's close to Germany (10 miles to border, 100 miles to Berlin) so you can get two cultures in one visit.
- people in Poland are... mentally somewhere between Russians and Germans ;)
- most of the people <40yo understand english. But many of them have no practice and are just afraid to speak. The younger people you meet the bigger chance to speak english you have.
- it's the region with a lot of forests (like 70% of area). So the air quality is decent comparing to any large city.
- covid is not an issue here right now. We had 6 new cases in last 24h per 1 million people. There is no "next wave" coming. You should wear a mask in closed space, but except visits at hospital/doctors no one cares.
People will know enough English for you to get by, but it will feel very isolating. Learning just a little bit of Polish will make a world of difference, especially if you need to talk with a plumber or doctor (they're very unlikely to know much English).
Places like this will help with a visa for a more extended stay so you can run your "startup":
https://twojstartup.pl/
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https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/11/25/poland-has-eus-worst-...
https://www.sustainability-times.com/clean-cities/battling-t...
Also, if OP enjoys smoking pot, that might be an issue as per family who lives there it will be a big change vs coming from California.
Personally when traveling in Krakow and Warsaw I've found more racism against brown people lately vs 10 years ago... random cabbies and bartenders going on unprovoked rants against immigrants. Not sure if that's been one-off but that was surprising for me at least.
Certainly no song and dance to the way they do business.
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You better put aside the remaining 13% for 5 years, just in case the inevitable happens.
Gas is currently $5.5 per gallon. Most people drive cars with low fuel consumption, so they're easy to get on second-hand market. Also, if one is particularly stingy about fuel costs, it's popular to own cars fueled by LPG. LPG is currently $2.5 per gallon.
Most of my friends don't have cars, around half doesn't have a driver's license. They can afford a car easily, but just don't see a need.
Couple of a links to get you started:
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/serbia-best-places-to...
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170822-belgrades-floati...
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/serbia/articles/an-expats-...
https://www.quora.com/What-is-life-like-for-American-expats-...
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-foreigners-moving-to-B...
https://yankee-in-belgrade.blogspot.com
People move to Belgrade because it’s cheap and the food is awesome. I’ve partied at the Splavs and had a great time. Random people were much more friendlier than Germans (the Serbs told me they were robots). There are some resentments by the Serbs against Americans and NATO bombings. It did come up while I was there.
I would not necessarily compare Serbians to conservatives in US (we are both generalizing now). What you may have experienced in general is 'caution' because that region of the world experienced wars every 30 years on average for the last 1000 years (unlike US). So it's not like its resisting change, but the progress was hindered so many times, having to rebuild everything from scratch. And it is hard to be 'liberal' in an environment where in some places you do not have basic infrastructure. Political 'progressive' thinking usually comes after you solved basic needs. That's just my assessment.
I think a single guy could live on quite a bit less, but has to pay some rent. For about 250-300 USD per month you can get a decent enough place to live I'd wager (think: condo studio, 35 m2, gym, swimming pool). If you eat Thai food some of the time, food can be quite cheap (a meal without drinks could be had for about 1-2 USD in a typical Thai food stall or at a food court). If you buy foreign food things can get more expensive. Depending on where you live, coffee can also be had for 1-2 USD. Renting a scooter would be advisable for getting around a city, but would cost an additional 100 USD per month.
Our daughter is 4.5 years old now. Due to COVID the schools have been closed for the last month or so, but should be open again starting September. My daughter is half foreigner, half Thai and goes to a Thai private school in the area. Don't expect too much of these private schools on the country side, but it should beat government education (which is pretty much free). For the private school we pay about 700 USD per year.
I work from home and since our daughter has been home a lot lately, I've resorted to working during the nights when my daughter is asleep. I tend to sleep from the morning to the afternoon. From the afternoon until the evening I spend at least a few hours every day with my daughter, playing LEGO, looking the iPad together, drawing, etc...
She has a niece nearby that visits almost every day and is just a couple of years older. In daytime she often plays with her niece. We also have a neighbour with a son of about equal age as our daughter and sometimes they play together.
There's not too much kid friendly stuff around here I guess, but my girlfriend does occasionally take our daughter to a playground nearby, at a government school. There's a soccer field and such for children to play on.
I believe even here on the country side there's plenty of good dentists, but I have to admit I haven't tried any dentist here myself. Usually when I visit The Netherlands, once or twice a year, I visit my own dentist. Our daughter hasn't visited the dentist yet and my girlfriend doesn't either (she just takes good care of her teeth).
If our daughter is sick, usually we first visit the clinic of the doctor that delivered our daughter in the hospital (many doctors here in Thailand have their own clinic that they work at after finishing their work hours at the hospital). If there's a bigger problem, we drive to Chiang Mai (about 2-3 hours drive) to visit the private Ram hospital which offers better care. We had to visit the hospital in Chiang Mai two times in the past and stay there for a few days.
In the future I'd like to move again to a coastal area, perhaps Pattaya, perhaps Hua Hin, perhaps some other place. In those areas there's more stuff for kids to do, for example there's often an entertainment area for children in the larger shopping malls like Central, BluPort, etc... Also at these coastal areas there's entertainment like amusement parks, zoos, beaches, etc... Also there's better quality (but much more expensive) education available, like international schools.
Going further east, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Lviv (Ukraine) are also very inexpensive yet safe and filled with interesting culture.
Due to the Turkish lira collapsing, Turkey is also very inexpensive if you have USD. You can rent an apartment in central Istanbul for ±$400 a month.
It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english. Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low.
Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction and barely-functioning infrastructure.
I lived roughly here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24...
If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.
And in 3 minutes walking distance you have every type of service that exists in the city.
Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English language?
Parts of Greece can also be surprisingly affordable (with much better infrastructure than Albania), particularly if you hit a place that's a summer hot-spot in the off-season.
That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my list, the rent seems very very low.
Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might need to stay and save for a bit longer.
Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations on foreigners.
For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less than New York to Chicago.
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[0]https://nomadlist.com/
Also not true in Germany where Munich is more expensive than Berlin.
Probably not true in most countries.
https://www.aetnainternational.com/en/individuals/health-pla...
Furthermore, there’s a wrinkle to watch out for where “renewing” a policy is actually “buying a new policy”. A new diagnosis under the current policy then becomes a disqualifying “pre-existing condition” when trying to get the new policy.
These expat health insurance plans are designed for expats living abroad, not US residents who spend time (even a significant amount) outside of the US each year.
Is there any risk they would drop you if you or your partner had a major illness or injury?
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-fami...
https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-costs/