EDIT 2: As a few folks have pointed out, it is hard to tell based on the article if the warrenty was denied to the entire car, or just the lead acid battery.
So I misread the article at first. This is not a person trying to hook up a power source to the primary Lithium Battery, it is someone hooking up an inverter to a 12v lead acid battery that their Tesla also has.
While I would agree that hooking up an inverter to the primary battery is one thing, voiding the warrenty for hooking up an inverter to the lead acid battery is entirely different, and I would be furious if a dealer tried to void a warrenty on my car based on a $100 car battery. I actually wonder if what they are doing is illegal under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
What likely happened is that the inverter deeply discharged the lead acid battery, tripping the flag in the car. As an FYI, what you can do if you do this occurs is bring it to an auto parts store, they can inspect your battery to tell you if it is still good, (this is usually a free service), recharge your battery (I have often got it for free, but sometimes it's like a 5$ fee), and if the battery isn't old, that will fix it.
> I actually think what Tesla is doing is in fact illegal.
It's hard to tell because this article is pretty terrible. It depends on what they mean by "voids warranty". If Tesla just won't replace the 12v battery for free because he deep-cycled it out side of the intended use, that seems pretty reasonable to me. If Tesla tries to use this as an argument against replacing any other part of the car (including the main battery), I think that's pretty clearly a violation of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty act. IANAL.
>> Through the low voltage architecture, you can get the power from the main battery pack and power several devices on the inverter.
He was pulling 12v from the 12v battery, but the car was topping up that battery from the main power pack. So he was effectively drawing power from the main pack. This would impact more than the 12v battery. I doubt tesla ever anticipated the 12v battery being discharged so quickly/continuously. They probably just don't know how this might impact any number of systems. An overheating 12v charging/rectifier system could fry something totally unrelated. This is exactly the sort of situation where a warranty for the entire car could/should be voided.
Being in this field, I can say that it depends on the setup. If it is directly connected to the electrical system of the car while it is inverting the power, this could void the warranty for the entire battery monitoring system and thus the car itself. Lithium batteries are controlled and monitored for safety and messing with this circuit by utilizing the LA battery as an external power supply could cause damage to the system that could result in catastrophic outcomes.
That LA battery is there for a reason. I don’t work with Tesla, but I would assume it is there as a backup for the monitoring and safety systems. There is a reason they are using an LA battery in a lithium powered car.
The problem is that they can legitimately claim more than that. This massively increases the workload on the DC-DC converter, arguably voiding its warranty as well.
Obviously there are things that should still be covered, but there is more potential for harm here than just to the 12V battery itself.
> This is not a person trying to hook up a power source to the primary Lithium Battery, it is someone hooking up an inverter to a 12v lead acid battery that their Tesla also has.
From linked article:
> Through the low voltage architecture, you can get the power from the main battery pack and power several devices on the inverter.
I don't know how Tesla is wired but this article suggests that 12V lead acid battery is constantly charged from primary lithium battery. It sounds like hooking up electrical load to main battery but with extra steps.
This is standard in EVs(and most plug-in hybrids).
My 17 Volt has a 175 amp DC-DC converter that charges the 12v battery from the traction battery. It's interesting that this converter is cooled via the same liquid cooling loop that cools the traction battery.
I have a 4kw inverter connected to it and have used it several times to power large loads for several days in my home during power outages, including refrigerators, lights, TV/Computers, vacuum cleaners, and also the furnace(as the guy in the article has).
I have been doing this since I bought the car in 2018 and the only ill effects are when I forget to turn it off(when the vehicle is off) and it drains the 12v battery. I've done this (drained the 12v battery accidentally) about 20 times so far and it has not noticeably impacted the 12v battery.
I also would not expect any warranty support for this charging system and battery as I am clearly using it outside its intended purpose.
Exactly, nobody should be doing that, it’s a weird edge case that never happens in any case and also Tesla’s are getting rid of their lead acid batteries anyway so good luck to this guy and his lawsuit...
The 12v system is to use standard 12v automotive electronics; every electric (and hybrid) car does this. A 12v SLA battery (these cars do tend to use sealed batteries / AGM with safety vent only) is the cheapest way to provide voltage regulation and power for accessories when the high voltage battery pack is "safed". (Generally, the "start" equivalent for both BEVs and hybrids is a process where the HV battery controller runs multiple safety tests on the high voltage system and then closes relays to connect the HV battery to the rest of the car. This bootstrap process is powered by the 12V SLA battery, since the HV battery is disconnected when "parked" - same reason that the lighting and horn need to run off the 12V battery.) Instead of an alternator, there's a DC-DC buck converter that recharges the SLA battery. SLA is a nice chemistry to use here because it's "self-managing" - you don't need a battery management system for the 12V battery.
Tesla has decided to not provide a 120v inverter from the factory. It's not the underlying tech, because other manufacturers do ship inverters and they're a straightforward thing to integrate (as the manufacturer) with the HV battery pack.
This is probably about (besides the normal Tesla-being-the-Apple-of-car-companies) battery pack degradation. Tesla currently warranties their battery packs based on mileage, and frequent use as a stationary power bank will put more cycles on the batteries.
There is precedent for this - ICE vehicle warranties can be voided for excessive stationary operation. Generally they don't bother for light duty, but medium and heavy duty trucks with PTO have maintenance requirements and warranty terms based on engine running hours as well as mileage.
In addition to the other reasons mentioned here, the 12v battery is important in emergency situations. The system is quick to disconnect the 400V battery in the case of a crash, and it relies on the 12V battery to run the air bags and hazard lights.
Teslas, despite their hype, are not some kind of revolutionary car. They use the same technology as every other car, though they improve things where they can, such as their motor efficiency. Standard car parts still need to be powered by low voltage, and it wouldn't make sense to make everything proprietary just for the tesla.
Almost everything inside a car works on 12v (door locks, windows, lights, center screen etc). They would like to move to 48v and power over ethernet however they probably have a lot of suppliers and it takes a while to get them all to switch to a new standard.
needing to keep a step-down (plummet down, at those voltages!) voltage converter continuously running off of main batteries to power some background electronics would be pretty inefficient.
the batteries wouldn't like it. where-as alkaline & lead acid batteries are efficient at low-discharge, lithium ion batteries generally don't enjoy low-discharge . buck converters are also probably going to be more efficient when they have some modest load to deliver- otherwise the drive circuitry & mosfets are consuming some (little) juice, just to produce a trickle of power.
in general this is an automotive vehicle using automotive rated electronic parts. having a conventional 12v battery-powered architecture for most systems makes loads of sense, is is hella convenient, and based off my above reasoning i'd guess more efficient. yes with that low-drain the inefficiency feels like it probably won't matter but I rest easier thinking that the li-ions can truly rest when the car is off. it's better for them.
I have dealt with these shenanigans with my ICE car and a dealer (they did not want to honor the warrenty for the car battery), this why I knew about bringing the battery to an Auto Parts store.
What in the WORLD!? This is a tiny 12v house lead acid battery. It is not designed or intended to be used as a stationary power source to POWER A HOUSE!
Warranties are for intended use. If I drop a boat out of a helicopter on onto concrete from 1,000 feet and it breaks, I can't make a warranty claim. This is SPECIFICALLY covered in the warrenty for TESLA's as well.
Now we are getting legal advice on HN that this violates the magnuson act! This is an only on HN comment.
This is not how these batteries are intended to be used.
Lawsuits like this are why we have crazy warning labels in Americas on things.
"What in the WORLD!? This is a tiny 12v house lead acid battery. It is not designed or intended to be used as a stationary power source to POWER A HOUSE!"
It's a totally reasonable use-case and is done all the time for a variety of reasons. It works just fine using an inverter like this one:
... and although we use a different emergency power solution now[1], we used an inverter like this with the plain old car battery in my Chevy Silverado for 5-6 years.
The issue is not that a 12v lead-acid battery can't be used for this - it's a common use-case, actually - it's that the backing store for that 12v battery is usually an ICE with a full gas tank and not a big bank of lithium batteries.
But I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine ...
[1] The excellent DEWALT FLEXVOLT Power Station which is a charging station for four 9AH tool batteries but you can also plug into it and get power out. So you use the batteries you already have for tools, you get a nice quad charger, and you have hours of 15A power out.
The argument is, what warranty if void? The battery only (as you assume), or the entire car? The act referenced, is all about this difference. Lets argue on the same page.
> Now we are getting legal advice on HN that this violates the magnuson act! This is an only on HN comment.
I didn't offer legal advice? I said based on my reading, it violates this act. Feel free to show where I am incorrect?
If you want to argue based on the merits of my argument vs saying "This is an only on HN comment", what would your thoughts be if Ford/Dodge/etc. void my warrenty because I idled my car and hooked up an inverter to my lead acid battery?
Lot's of discussion about tesla voiding the whole warranty, but that doesn't seem to be supported by the article.
> The Tesla service center said that the battery needed replacing, but they actually found this post on the Facebook group and said that his setup voided the warranty.
So they refused to replace the battery
> The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from [...] Using the vehicle as a stationary power source
Per a plain reading of the warranty, it still applies to unrelated damages. That doesn't contradict the service center declining to replace the battery under warranty.
Why is this not the top comment? This is uncharacteristically anti tesla clickbait coming from electrek.co. I dont so much care about that, but they could at least have a less inflammatory title. If you drain a 12v lead acid battery it usually kills it.
Read through the warranty t&cs on pretty much any device. There is verbiage stating that if you arent using it for the intended purpose then the warranty is null and void. This is standard practice and generally a reasonable thing to have in a warranty. If a device/car/whatever is built for one thing and you decide to use it for not that thing then why should the company have to do additional leg work to decide if it is harmful or could damage the <thing>.
Sidebar- Maybe its a good idea to not post your entire life on facebook, twitter, insta, whatever. Alternatively the expectation should be that there could be unintended consequences.
It's pretty clear that they ONLY denied the warranty to the 12V battery. Which is reasonable and is clearly stated on the manual.
Lexus/Toyota won't even let you jump start another vehicle if you have a Hybrid. Not only will they not warranty the 12v battery, but also other electronics that you end up damaging.
"Exclusive jump starting terminal precaution The exclusive jump starting terminal is to be used when charging the 12-volt battery
from another vehicle in an emergency. It cannot be used to jump start another vehicle."
Tesla monitors battery degradation based on miles driven. If you use your battery as a stationary power source, it messes up their ability to anticipate degradation. So it makes sense.
This is, from the warranty's point of view, the same as manipulating the odometer on an ICE car to make it appear to have driven fewer miles than it actually has.
> This is, from the warranty's point of view, the same as manipulating the odometer on an ICE car to make it appear to have driven fewer miles than it actually has.
Your first paragraph is spot-on, but your second claim couldn’t be more wrong. It’s akin to powering your home off your ICE car’s alternator and an inverter which wouldn’t register as miles driven on the odometer.
> the same as manipulating the odometer on an ICE car to make it appear to have driven fewer miles than it actually has
Well, no, this is the same as running your ICE car a lot without driving it. (Which is actually common for some ways people use cars.)
Some cars and all-ish heavy machinery count the amount of time the engine is running. (It's not common for cars to base their warranties on this, but only calendar time and miles, as far as I know.)
Reread the article. This is not a person trying to hook up a power source to the primary Lithium Battery, it is someone hooking up an inverter to a 12v lead acid battery that their Tesla also has.
> This is, from the warranty's point of view, the same as manipulating the odometer on an ICE car to make it appear to have driven fewer miles than it actually has.
No, one implies active deception. The other is "unaccounted for use case".
This is (another) example of Tesla expecting customers to not just collect data for them, but pay for the privilege - witness the replacement of the eMMC which Tesla considers a consumable despite its inaccessible location and despite the fact it is not the owner "consuming" it, but Tesla, capturing telemetry data to send to Tesla for Tesla's benefit.
I rather doubt there's anything in the Tesla Bill of Sale that obligates me to provide battery health telemetry data to Tesla for their monitoring.
Tesla is planning for a system where your vehicle is charged at home, and can power your work during peak hours, and they want your vehicle to be a backup power supply - so they will eventually allow this, however regulation will be required to make sure people/consumers aren't getting unfairly treated.
In the end it will need to be competition and regulation that prevents all EVs, the industrial complex, from taking advantage and extracting more than is reasonable based on costs.
That's completely stupid. Tesla can and I'm fairly certain has the data on the exact number of amp-hours that flowed through each cell.
If they are going to void the warranty anyways, they can simply calculate the equivalent miles driven with the amount of Ah used and use that as a basis for voiding or not.
All the Tesla monitoring makes me nervous in general, however I do feel that Tesla is within their rights to void warranty here. Ideally this would ONLY void the warrant on the battery, and any other affected system. ie, if you ruin your battery this way, but your brakes fail, ideally you could get warranty service.
If Tesla voided the warranty after investigating what happened reading the ODB2, that's one thing. If they voided the warranty over-the-air, that's more concerning.
While I agree with your conclusion, I would argue how you got there is a bit faulty. EDIT: I misead the article. I don't necessarily think Tesla is in the right about this, especially voiding your whole warrenty.
Car Maker's typically don't make the 12v battery, some third party does, and the warrenty is typically through the third party. A typical 12v car battery is also lead acid, and a lead acid battery behaves radically different as comapred to the lithum batteries with charging and discharging, and lead acid batteries age differently too.
I would have no problem "abusing" a 12v lead acid battery (and there are plenty of sites out there to show how to store energy for your home using them), but I would not want to attempt that with a lithium battery. Why? Without the proper charging/discharging circuitry, those things can catch fire (thermal runaway), and that can't happen on a lead acid battery.
However, I would argue that due to the aging of the battery combined with the danger of adding third party discharging circuitry, I would agree that this would void the warrenty, as I would imagine the car cannot now monitor the aging of the battery now. I would not be happy to get a used tesle to know that the battery is significantly more aged than what is reported.
EDIT: I apperently misread the article, and assumed the inverter was being hooked up into the Tesla battery, but Tesla has a 12v lead acid battery.
Re-reading the article, I am actually surprised about this now. Tesla is voiding the warrenty from using the 12v lead acid battery, NOT the primary lithium battery. This may actually be illegal under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
Lead acid batteries can explode though. The one hooked to the backup sump pump in my parents' house had went kaboom when I was a kid, scared the crap out of me (quite literally in this case).
This is not new. You'd encounter the same thing from any other car dealer if you brought your vehicle in for a charging system problem and they discover you've been pulling 100+ amps continuously(1200 watts at 12 volts = 100amps) from the system.
Vehicle alternators(the device that charges the battery while the engine is running) are not designed to continuously output that kind of load and would likely be damaged if it were used for any significant duration at that load.
I have done this myself with a non-electrically propelled vehicle and have damaged(due to overheating) an alternator in the process.
People get used to treating electronics and computers as black boxes, not concerned with their internal workings since things just tend to work how they should these days. But when you get into high power and batteries, you have to consider chemistry and heat. You can't just plug a 2000W inverter into a battery and assume things will work without any issues down the line.
It's the same reason fast-charge for phones only works with a specific type of cable and connector. Otherwise you could overload the battery or the burn the cable by sending too much current through the wrong cable.
Particularly when said battery is not accustomed and likely not even designed for such high power loads. This battery would be only used for vehicle accessories, electronics, etc... Not even as a "cranking" battery as would be the case in a vehicle with an internal combustion engine.
The battery in the Tesla was likely sized and designed with this in mind also.
GM used to point out in its "future tech" announcements that you could power your house by hooking it up to your car in emergencies. This really was a big thing about their fuel-cell thinking but carried on in the electric era.
I guess ICE vehicles still have two big advantages: I can power a lot of things in emergencies and car manufactures haven't quite got in the habit of monitoring the hell out them yet.
My ICE car is a big part of my plans if I lose power for a day in the winter such as during a snowstorm and cannot drive out. I make sure to fill it up before bad weather, and if I lose power and my house becomes too cold I'll go sit in the car.
Idling with the heater on it should get 25-30 hours on a tank. That should be long enough for either power to be restored, or for there have been enough traffic from people up my street in trucks and big SUVs to have cleared the road enough to drive out.
Do make sure your tailpipe is clear and not filling your garage. Our family once used a propane grill as heating source (the food was a nice plus).
I have one friend with a ICE vehicle that he can plug into the house and power some essentials. He is a general contractor and has a lot of fun stuff on his truck.
How well do EVs function as emergency shelter?
I would be curious on a statement from each manufacture on how long I could run the heater in an emergency situation.
Readit News
So I misread the article at first. This is not a person trying to hook up a power source to the primary Lithium Battery, it is someone hooking up an inverter to a 12v lead acid battery that their Tesla also has.
While I would agree that hooking up an inverter to the primary battery is one thing, voiding the warrenty for hooking up an inverter to the lead acid battery is entirely different, and I would be furious if a dealer tried to void a warrenty on my car based on a $100 car battery. I actually wonder if what they are doing is illegal under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
What likely happened is that the inverter deeply discharged the lead acid battery, tripping the flag in the car. As an FYI, what you can do if you do this occurs is bring it to an auto parts store, they can inspect your battery to tell you if it is still good, (this is usually a free service), recharge your battery (I have often got it for free, but sometimes it's like a 5$ fee), and if the battery isn't old, that will fix it.
EDIT: if you want to read the act, it is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20130317083941/http://uscode.hou...
But in reading here: https://apb-law.com/understanding-magnuson-moss-act-relates-...
I actually think what Tesla is doing is in fact illegal.
It's hard to tell because this article is pretty terrible. It depends on what they mean by "voids warranty". If Tesla just won't replace the 12v battery for free because he deep-cycled it out side of the intended use, that seems pretty reasonable to me. If Tesla tries to use this as an argument against replacing any other part of the car (including the main battery), I think that's pretty clearly a violation of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty act. IANAL.
He was pulling 12v from the 12v battery, but the car was topping up that battery from the main power pack. So he was effectively drawing power from the main pack. This would impact more than the 12v battery. I doubt tesla ever anticipated the 12v battery being discharged so quickly/continuously. They probably just don't know how this might impact any number of systems. An overheating 12v charging/rectifier system could fry something totally unrelated. This is exactly the sort of situation where a warranty for the entire car could/should be voided.
That LA battery is there for a reason. I don’t work with Tesla, but I would assume it is there as a backup for the monitoring and safety systems. There is a reason they are using an LA battery in a lithium powered car.
Obviously there are things that should still be covered, but there is more potential for harm here than just to the 12V battery itself.
From linked article:
> Through the low voltage architecture, you can get the power from the main battery pack and power several devices on the inverter.
I don't know how Tesla is wired but this article suggests that 12V lead acid battery is constantly charged from primary lithium battery. It sounds like hooking up electrical load to main battery but with extra steps.
My 17 Volt has a 175 amp DC-DC converter that charges the 12v battery from the traction battery. It's interesting that this converter is cooled via the same liquid cooling loop that cools the traction battery.
I have a 4kw inverter connected to it and have used it several times to power large loads for several days in my home during power outages, including refrigerators, lights, TV/Computers, vacuum cleaners, and also the furnace(as the guy in the article has).
I have been doing this since I bought the car in 2018 and the only ill effects are when I forget to turn it off(when the vehicle is off) and it drains the 12v battery. I've done this (drained the 12v battery accidentally) about 20 times so far and it has not noticeably impacted the 12v battery.
I also would not expect any warranty support for this charging system and battery as I am clearly using it outside its intended purpose.
Why do Teslas still have these wet batteries, do you know?
Also, does the Tesla not have a standard wall socket in it? Why would you need to use an inverter?
Tesla has decided to not provide a 120v inverter from the factory. It's not the underlying tech, because other manufacturers do ship inverters and they're a straightforward thing to integrate (as the manufacturer) with the HV battery pack.
This is probably about (besides the normal Tesla-being-the-Apple-of-car-companies) battery pack degradation. Tesla currently warranties their battery packs based on mileage, and frequent use as a stationary power bank will put more cycles on the batteries.
There is precedent for this - ICE vehicle warranties can be voided for excessive stationary operation. Generally they don't bother for light duty, but medium and heavy duty trucks with PTO have maintenance requirements and warranty terms based on engine running hours as well as mileage.
It helps conserve your actual battery and works well.
They have a separate 12v system from their 400v+ system that they use to run the motor.
the batteries wouldn't like it. where-as alkaline & lead acid batteries are efficient at low-discharge, lithium ion batteries generally don't enjoy low-discharge . buck converters are also probably going to be more efficient when they have some modest load to deliver- otherwise the drive circuitry & mosfets are consuming some (little) juice, just to produce a trickle of power.
in general this is an automotive vehicle using automotive rated electronic parts. having a conventional 12v battery-powered architecture for most systems makes loads of sense, is is hella convenient, and based off my above reasoning i'd guess more efficient. yes with that low-drain the inefficiency feels like it probably won't matter but I rest easier thinking that the li-ions can truly rest when the car is off. it's better for them.
I have dealt with these shenanigans with my ICE car and a dealer (they did not want to honor the warrenty for the car battery), this why I knew about bringing the battery to an Auto Parts store.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuodaE6WQAA3tKN?format=jpg
It looks like they just didn't honor replacing the 12v battery under warrenty, which makes this article pretty much a nonstarter.
Warranties are for intended use. If I drop a boat out of a helicopter on onto concrete from 1,000 feet and it breaks, I can't make a warranty claim. This is SPECIFICALLY covered in the warrenty for TESLA's as well.
Now we are getting legal advice on HN that this violates the magnuson act! This is an only on HN comment.
This is not how these batteries are intended to be used.
Lawsuits like this are why we have crazy warning labels in Americas on things.
It's a totally reasonable use-case and is done all the time for a variety of reasons. It works just fine using an inverter like this one:
https://gpelectric.com/products/3000-watt-industrial-pure-si...
... and although we use a different emergency power solution now[1], we used an inverter like this with the plain old car battery in my Chevy Silverado for 5-6 years.
The issue is not that a 12v lead-acid battery can't be used for this - it's a common use-case, actually - it's that the backing store for that 12v battery is usually an ICE with a full gas tank and not a big bank of lithium batteries.
But I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine ...
[1] The excellent DEWALT FLEXVOLT Power Station which is a charging station for four 9AH tool batteries but you can also plug into it and get power out. So you use the batteries you already have for tools, you get a nice quad charger, and you have hours of 15A power out.
I didn't offer legal advice? I said based on my reading, it violates this act. Feel free to show where I am incorrect?
If you want to argue based on the merits of my argument vs saying "This is an only on HN comment", what would your thoughts be if Ford/Dodge/etc. void my warrenty because I idled my car and hooked up an inverter to my lead acid battery?
> The Tesla service center said that the battery needed replacing, but they actually found this post on the Facebook group and said that his setup voided the warranty.
So they refused to replace the battery
> The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from [...] Using the vehicle as a stationary power source
Per a plain reading of the warranty, it still applies to unrelated damages. That doesn't contradict the service center declining to replace the battery under warranty.
Read through the warranty t&cs on pretty much any device. There is verbiage stating that if you arent using it for the intended purpose then the warranty is null and void. This is standard practice and generally a reasonable thing to have in a warranty. If a device/car/whatever is built for one thing and you decide to use it for not that thing then why should the company have to do additional leg work to decide if it is harmful or could damage the <thing>.
Sidebar- Maybe its a good idea to not post your entire life on facebook, twitter, insta, whatever. Alternatively the expectation should be that there could be unintended consequences.
Lexus/Toyota won't even let you jump start another vehicle if you have a Hybrid. Not only will they not warranty the 12v battery, but also other electronics that you end up damaging.
"Exclusive jump starting terminal precaution The exclusive jump starting terminal is to be used when charging the 12-volt battery from another vehicle in an emergency. It cannot be used to jump start another vehicle."
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/12v-battery-dead-on-2017-x...
https://priuschat.com/threads/jump-starting-the-prius-c.1207...
This is, from the warranty's point of view, the same as manipulating the odometer on an ICE car to make it appear to have driven fewer miles than it actually has.
Your first paragraph is spot-on, but your second claim couldn’t be more wrong. It’s akin to powering your home off your ICE car’s alternator and an inverter which wouldn’t register as miles driven on the odometer.
Well, no, this is the same as running your ICE car a lot without driving it. (Which is actually common for some ways people use cars.)
Some cars and all-ish heavy machinery count the amount of time the engine is running. (It's not common for cars to base their warranties on this, but only calendar time and miles, as far as I know.)
No miles would register but you'd still be putting a lot of wear on the engine. I doubt the warranty for the ICE vehicle would cover this.
No, one implies active deception. The other is "unaccounted for use case".
This is (another) example of Tesla expecting customers to not just collect data for them, but pay for the privilege - witness the replacement of the eMMC which Tesla considers a consumable despite its inaccessible location and despite the fact it is not the owner "consuming" it, but Tesla, capturing telemetry data to send to Tesla for Tesla's benefit.
I rather doubt there's anything in the Tesla Bill of Sale that obligates me to provide battery health telemetry data to Tesla for their monitoring.
In the end it will need to be competition and regulation that prevents all EVs, the industrial complex, from taking advantage and extracting more than is reasonable based on costs.
If they are going to void the warranty anyways, they can simply calculate the equivalent miles driven with the amount of Ah used and use that as a basis for voiding or not.
I don't think any other car maker will warranty an abused 12v battery.
Car Maker's typically don't make the 12v battery, some third party does, and the warrenty is typically through the third party. A typical 12v car battery is also lead acid, and a lead acid battery behaves radically different as comapred to the lithum batteries with charging and discharging, and lead acid batteries age differently too.
I would have no problem "abusing" a 12v lead acid battery (and there are plenty of sites out there to show how to store energy for your home using them), but I would not want to attempt that with a lithium battery. Why? Without the proper charging/discharging circuitry, those things can catch fire (thermal runaway), and that can't happen on a lead acid battery.
However, I would argue that due to the aging of the battery combined with the danger of adding third party discharging circuitry, I would agree that this would void the warrenty, as I would imagine the car cannot now monitor the aging of the battery now. I would not be happy to get a used tesle to know that the battery is significantly more aged than what is reported.
EDIT: I apperently misread the article, and assumed the inverter was being hooked up into the Tesla battery, but Tesla has a 12v lead acid battery.
Re-reading the article, I am actually surprised about this now. Tesla is voiding the warrenty from using the 12v lead acid battery, NOT the primary lithium battery. This may actually be illegal under the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
Vehicle alternators(the device that charges the battery while the engine is running) are not designed to continuously output that kind of load and would likely be damaged if it were used for any significant duration at that load.
I have done this myself with a non-electrically propelled vehicle and have damaged(due to overheating) an alternator in the process.
It's the same reason fast-charge for phones only works with a specific type of cable and connector. Otherwise you could overload the battery or the burn the cable by sending too much current through the wrong cable.
The battery in the Tesla was likely sized and designed with this in mind also.
I guess ICE vehicles still have two big advantages: I can power a lot of things in emergencies and car manufactures haven't quite got in the habit of monitoring the hell out them yet.
Idling with the heater on it should get 25-30 hours on a tank. That should be long enough for either power to be restored, or for there have been enough traffic from people up my street in trucks and big SUVs to have cleared the road enough to drive out.
How well do EVs function as emergency shelter?
I have one friend with a ICE vehicle that he can plug into the house and power some essentials. He is a general contractor and has a lot of fun stuff on his truck.
How well do EVs function as emergency shelter?
I would be curious on a statement from each manufacture on how long I could run the heater in an emergency situation.
Why doesn't Tesla limit the output current of the battery and be done with it? Why this strange rule?