This quote comes from Blaise Pascal's Pensées, accessible here.
"That is why we like noise and activity so much. That is why imprisonment is such a horrific punishment. That is why the pleasure of being alone is incomprehensible. That is, in fact, the main joy of the condition of kingship, because people are constantly trying to amuse kings and provide them with all sorts of distraction.—The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself. King though he may be, he is unhappy if he thinks about it"
That has a lot of resonance for me. In this modern age, we are all kings, and there are vast industries to save us from ever being alone from our thoughts.
For December, I quit sugar, social media, and video games. It's been really interesting to notice what state I'm in when I go to reach for those things. Sometimes it's just habit, but often it's because I'm uncomfortable or in distress and want to avoid those feelings. But indulging in those things often just kicks the problem down the road.
Indeed, breaking my social media habits reminds me of Oscar Wilde talking about cigarettes: "A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want?" The same for me is definitely true with Twitter and Facebook. An infinite feed of shiny, entertaining, funny, and outraging things, but almost nothing that's ever satisfying.
If you go online you can probably find a Jesuit retreat centre not too far from you where you can spend (say) eight days in total silence and seclusion; you can optionally (though recommended) talk with a spiritual director once a day to help you sort through anything that bubbles up during your stay.
The BBC had a short doc where a bunch of random men and women went through the exercise (episodes are available online if you search):
Perhaps worthwhile, even if that is not your particular worldview.
(This is separate than what monks do, which is seclusion from the world.)
Most faiths in the world have spiritual traditions where silence and reflection are done. Probably possible to find similar retreat centres following their traditions. It seems that it is only the modern secular worldview that hasn't adopted something (yet?). I think this is something most modern philosophical worldviews (especially in the materialist bend) overlook: human 'spiritually' (for lack of a better word).
> That has a lot of resonance for me. In this modern age, we are all kings, and there are vast industries to save us from ever being alone from our thoughts.
> The same for me is definitely true with Twitter and Facebook. An infinite feed of shiny, entertaining, funny, and outraging things, but almost nothing that's ever satisfying.
Facebook has been making it pretty easy for me to quit - it's mostly been an unending stream of boring advertisements with maybe one or two meaningful posts from friends.
I want to pay $20/month for something like highscalability.com
It hits 80% of the stories I cared about during the week and I get them in 30-40 minutes on a Friday. I don't think this type of service exists because it would have to intentionally limit the growth of the company. When someone asked for a daily update / hourly update / or news feed you would have to say no. And a competitor may emerge that makes more money and eventually tries to buy you.
Just a bit more on why Pascal thought even a king is unhappy when he thinks about himself:
Whatever condition we picture to ourselves, if we muster all the good
things which it is possible to possess, royalty is the finest position
in the world. Yet, when we imagine a king attended with every pleasure
he can feel, if he be without diversion, and be left to consider and
reflect on what he is, this feeble happiness will not sustain him; he
will necessarily fall into forebodings of dangers, of revolutions which
may happen, and, finally, of death and inevitable disease; so that if he
be without what is called diversion, he is unhappy, and more unhappy
than the least of his subjects who plays and diverts himself.
Hence it comes that play and the society of women, war, and high posts,
are so sought after. Not that there is in fact any happiness in them, or
that men imagine true bliss to consist in money won at play, or in the
hare which they hunt; we would not take these as a gift. We do not seek
that easy and peaceful lot which permits us to think of our unhappy
condition, nor the dangers of war, nor the labour of office, but the
bustle which averts these thoughts of ours, and amuses us.
Reasons why we like the chase better than the quarry.
Hence it comes that men so much love noise and stir; hence it comes that
the prison is so horrible a punishment; hence it comes that the pleasure
of solitude is a thing incomprehensible. And it is in fact the greatest
source of happiness in the condition of kings, that men try incessantly
to divert them, and to procure for them all kinds of pleasures.
The king is surrounded by persons whose only thought is to divert the
king, and to prevent his thinking of self. For he is unhappy, king
though he be, if he think of himself.
This is all that men have been able to discover to make themselves
happy. And those who philosophise on the matter, and who think men
unreasonable for spending a whole day in chasing a hare which they would
not have bought, scarce know our nature. The hare in itself would not
screen us from the sight of death and calamities; but the chase which
turns away our attention from these, does screen us.
As a Muslim, I pray five times a day, and of late I have begun to perform it "better", as in unshackling myself from worldly thoughts and other mental distractions. I attach zero importance to them and I remind myself that this صلاة (prayer) that I am doing alone deserves any importance, to the exclusion of all others. Thoughts used to come to me to try and induce panic in me, but overtime they have become so feeble that I am no longer aware of them.
And talking about the kings, one of the pious said : “If the kings and the children of the kings knew what [felicity] we are in, they would fight us over it with their swords.”
the day you can sit for hours without doing anything, you've attained the state of self-realization – self-love free from all conditions. The conditioned mind is no longer there, the thoughts no longer bombard you, the emotions no longer disturb you. You enjoy the deep peace, contentment and bliss of your infinite self. Then you can truly contemplate deeply on anything you feel important, then the deep mysteries of existence shall open up to you. Then, you see the truth, of life, existence and the universe.
>The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself.
This is really interesting from a modern perspective. I'm an audiophile - I've spent countless hours just sitting in a chair in front of a stereo system I've spent a couple thousand on. If I ever lapse into non-attention to the music, I try and get back to the music. It's like mindfulness meditation, but unlike the monk, my mind is focusing on a sense, not emptying itself.
On the other hand, I can't lie in bed for more than two minutes without deep introspection - my morality, arguments for and against all positions, what projects I want to work on, the papers I've read, etc.
But before writing some comments on this website and elsewhere, I'll have a deep think about what I'm arguing, and why. Other times I'll just jump at it for the engagement, the thrill of refreshing in the morning to check the Hacker News Engagement Number, whatever else. I've tried to make an effort to not read outrage-bait on Reddit, I've deleted my Twitter account years ago, I've done countless things. This i my third HN account.
The best part of my day, after work and my energy is exhausted? Gaming. I only play one game - online and multi-player, with an Icelandic man I've never met. It's all a distraction. Why continue learning piano, Japanese, philosophy, literature, introspection, when I have this pleasure right here? Where will I be in 30 years? 20 years? Even writing this comment sadness comes over me.
To think that in the 19th century, there were men being compared to Hegel and Feuerbach at age 21. What the hell am I doing?
I wouldn't take comparison to Hegel as a great compliment. That said, the magnitude of knowledge and knowledgeable people in the 21st century (and onwards) will far outnumber the 19th century. So that what made one appear as a genius then would make them look ordinary now. I'm not asking us to see people of bygone eras differently than they're written about—I'm asking that we revere them, but with a healthy dose of skepticism which prevents us from seeing ourselves and times as failed in comparison.
What game is it? I've been looking for something to play in the last few days. I've got my mind just racing with ideas for projects and things and I'm always feeling bad about not getting into it and then I'm not able to truly relax.
"Modern humans spend virtually no time on "inward-directed thought", and not solely because we're too busy: in one US survey, 95% of adults said they'd found time for a leisure activity in the previous 24 hours, but 83% said they'd spent zero time just thinking."
I think Pascal was correct because at least those people I know well enough to discuss such matters with tell me they don't spend much time thinking or contemplating about much at all. This is a bit strange to me as I've always thought about things—mind you, not necessarily things of great importance but about things in general. It's dead easy for me to daydream time away (unfortunately). (When I was at school one of the punishments was to be sent to stand in a corner and stare at the wall. It used to send some kids almost crazy but never bothered me much—all I had to do was to go into daydream mode to pass time away!)
Since reading this article it's occurred to me that those people who've really struggled with the isolation of COVID-19 lockdowns and who continually seek the company of other people are perhaps those who suffer this 'inability to sit quietly in a room alone'. I mention this because during earlier posts on the topic of large numbers of people who were not coping with the enforced isolation, I said that for me, if anything, the enforced lockdown was a blessing as I wasn't continually having to deal with people I'd rather not deal with. Similarly, I find noise and activity distracting, even annoying at times.
No doubt when COVID-19 is over and the postmortems begin in earnest, this connection will be researched.
Another afterthought, perhaps those best suited to interplanetary traveling will be those who do have a good ability to quietly contemplate things (after all, it's likely they'll be forced to do lots of it).
I find it disturbing the way a trait that seems to be very common among humans is being framed as a problem.
External stimulus means you’re with other humans that you can cooperate with. That you’re sharing stories and learning. That you’re hunting for food. That you’re building a shelter. All these things are necessary for survival. It seems possible that being sociable and industrious might well have been bread into us at some point. And it’s probably the reason we aren’t like big cats in Africa, just hunting and then resting to conserve energy.
We should not be suggesting to people that their instincts are a moral failure to be cured.
It's a problem. That's why doing it (mediation, mindfulness, prayer, sitting zazen, ...) helps!
Watch animals: they meditate instinctively. Dogs, cats, birds, they all do it.
Just like animals all stretch instinctively. (We had some chickens for awhile this year and they stretch too. It's funny: they stretch the wing and leg on one side together, then the other side.)
What I'm saying is, "yoga" and "meditation" are necessary for survival. You gotta remember civilization is only 12K years old, that's nothing in the biological scheme of things. We should be spending a lot more time napping and "zoning out".
Of course the need for external stimuli is a universal and important human need. The question is merely whether 100% of one's waking moments must serve this need, or whether one has the ability to spend a percent or so of one's time not satisfying this need:
> …that people detest being made to spend six to 15 minutes in a room by themselves with nothing to do but think – even to the extent of being willing to give themselves mild electric shocks instead.
Simply pointing out the importance of external stimuli is like responding to an observation that many people cannot hold their breath for 30 seconds (say) by pointing out the importance of breathing.
The problem is that we live in a society where one is constantly being bombarded with stimuli all the time. Because people cannot be in silence, you have to endure constant noise.
I began a new job recently and was shocked to find out they have a speaker system that plays music everywhere in the building including office areas. On my first day, they were playing gangsta rap all day long...
So now, in order for me to focus and do what I'm being paid to do, I have to separate myself from the environment by either working from home (in silence) or using ANC headphones all day, which is not pleasant.
The problem, in my opinion, is that/when those things are done compulsively. If you're hungry it's fine to have a compulsion to get food, but as a human you should also be comfortable doing nothing, otherwise you're essentially seeding misery.
Not everyone frames it in a judgemental fashion. Some people simply decide to see what happens when they decide to go outside their comfort zone.
The tendency to not explore these spaces seems to be one of the reasons why they are occulted.
I always find this percentages puzzling. I reckon people busy thinking are too busy, or simply never get requested to fill in surveys about how they spend their idle CPU brain time.
Thinking is the last remaining freedom, as long as you don't say all the things you think of out loud. :)
The modern world is also set up in such a way* to preclude such activity because we are surrounded by stimuli and activity that distracts people and gives them things to do and think about. I noticed this when I became more interested in quiet contemplation. Its not easy for everyone to allocate uninterrupted time for such activity.
* the modern world emergently selects for these interruptions, I'm not suggesting an anti-mindfulness conspiracy. Its why Buddha is sometimes depicted with lions and tigers. The legend is that when a meditating practitioner is near to enlightenment, he or she will hallucinate ferocious beasts and those are illusions that come about as he nears enlightenment in order to distract him or her.
"...to preclude such activity because we are surrounded by stimuli and activity that distracts people and gives them things to do and think about."
You're right. In my opinion, one of the best examples of this is to be seen in our films, videos and multimedia presentations, etc. With very few exceptions, extremely tight editing is now the norm, scenes are cut to within an inch of incomprehension and there's rapid switching from one scene to another and back again. We now have the ridiculous situation where scene switching is so rapid that the set designer's work is in vain as the viewer has hardly sufficient time to comprehend the foreground material let alone the background scenery. (You can easily test this by recording some typical video then playing it back and asking typical viewers to explain what they've seen. It's devastatingly informative in the negative sense in that they miss almost everything!)
From my observation, this fast, ever-changing stimuli is harmful from the perspective that people now have a shallower grasp on reality/everyday things around them than they once did when times weren't quite so fast. What's more troubling is that there seems to be no attempt to make people aware of the fact.
>When I was at school one of the punishments was to be sent to stand in a corner and stare at the wall. It used to send some kids almost crazy but never bothered me much—all I had to do was to go into daydream mode to pass time away
Me as well. I wonder if it is the upside to having near-crippling ADHD.
I suppose defaulting to daydream mode is moderately useful for the large portion of the prison population with ADHD.
Always been afraid of my terrible impulse control sending me to prison for one reason or another but never considered that I could just daydream the time away. Good to know.
To add another anecdatapoint, I had exactly the same thought. It kind of makes sense; I think of ADHD as being a matter of intrinsically-driven attention rather than motivated attention.
Fellow physicist? No, more engineering but the username was inspired from distant memories of having to get my head around the mathematics of David H's famous space! And I've always been a fan of Douglas Adams and the similarly-inspired Red Dwarf (right, that's a category and now I'm classified). ;-)
What helps me is to walk, instead of sitting in a room. When I walk, my fidgety body is kept busy, and leaves my brain in peace, not even costing any brain-cpu cycles.
Then, it is a lot harder to reach to your cellphone when you walk. So it helps me get rid of 2 major distractions, body and phone, with very little effort. Now I can think.
This. Unfortunately it's much harder in winter due to short days where I live (currently 7 hour days) but in summer it's great.
I find audiobooks and podcasts are also great for walking. Popular science and good self help is interesting but the best ones for a quiet state of complementation are thoughtful interviews, biographies and story driven intellectual books (Yuval Noah Harari is particularly excellent). In some ways they are another distraction but I like to listen for a while then take off the headphones and think on a section while I walk another mile.
Sorry to nit, but aren’t the podcasts distractions?
And tangentially: I listen the the ambient album Weightless by Marconi Union when I want to think but also drown out outside noise.
Walking helps me too. Long walks rather than short/brisk ones.
I think this has to be about the 'diffused mode' of the brain- they talked about in the course 'Learning How To Learn'- as opposed to the focused mode.
Though you mention that walking is what helps you keep distractions under control, I like to go walking while listening to history/science podcasts, since it helps me understand the content a lot better.
The act of walking is said to be greatly beneficial for thinking in its own right [0].
So when I get an idea, I usually drop everything I'm doing and go for walk. And my anecdata can only confirm that it's beneficial.
This is why I am so excited about the idea of working remotely using AR glasses. Just imagine going hiking through the mountains while checking your emails or being on a conference call – only taking breaks to type out some code on a portable keyboard.
Regardless of the cognitive performance boost this would give you, it would also mitigate a lot of the health issues we humans have started accumulating since we started sitting down all day.
Of course Einstein also famously claimed to have only moved to Princeton for the walks home with Gödel [1].
[1] I would have to do some digging to find the original phrasing (Einstein is often misattributted), so take it with a pinch of salt. But there is an entire book who's title alludes to this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Einstein_Walked_with_G%C3...
I completely agree here. In "Think Fast and Slow" the author talks about how much more productive and clear his time was when he took his thinking time and walked for it.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.”
Ecstasy. This dude knew how to meditate. A lot of people think meditation is just an exercise in patience and self discipline to stop the chatter of the mind, and that that is the end in itself. They are unaware of where meditation can lead.
When the central channel (referred to as sushumna in yoga) is open and energy flows freely, you can feel ecstatic sensations in the centre of the brain as the upper centres become energised. It's important to relax the body, including the eyes, head and brain itself.
I feel it like a sort of exhilaration, like the first time I went on a rollercoaster or cycled my bike fast down a hill etc. It's an electrically alive feeling.
I hear this is just the start: what starts as a trickle becomes a torrent, apparently.
Do you have suggested reading for how to learn about this effort? Most meditation and yoga related content I find is geared toward the woke soccer mom, not those looking for acutely reflective time
I was looking at this quote for a long time. I forgot who it was from, and only remembered it paraphrased. Thank you.
To also contribute to the discussion. I often joke that it takes effort to mess things up. You could instead lay on the beach enjoy the evening breeze than putting in that effort. So before you delve into that process, take a step back and think carefully what you want out of it.
I like long walks accompanied by music (ambient music). Walking can be a deeply meditative experience, just pick terrain that won't give you trouble (no high traffic streets, no steep hills etc) and just go. Walk until your body starts doing it mechanically, and don't focus on the destination nor in search of stimuli.
Maybe because walking exerts energy, it can be more effective than just sitting or laying down - when you are really energetic and not tired. Maybe because the scenery changes and it acts as a context switch to our minds.
It has been both effective as a form of emotion regulation, coming up with novel solutions, and just feeling more in sync with myself.
Why is it, that sitting alone will have me ruminating, thinking negative thoughts whereas when I'm moving my legs thoughts seem to be more positive or productive?
Just my interpretation (of the Pascal quote), beginning with the full quote.
> When I have occasionally set myself to consider the different distractions of men, the pains and perils to which they expose themselves at court or in war, whence arise so many quarrels, passions, bold and often bad ventures, etc., I have discovered that all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, that they cannot stay quietly in their own chamber. A man who has enough to live on, if he knew how to stay with pleasure at home, would not leave it to go to sea or to besiege a town. A commission in the army would not be bought so dearly, but that it is found insufferable not to budge from the town; and men only seek conversation and entering games, because they cannot remain with pleasure at home.[139][#201908302349]
This quote is often summarized roughly as: "all of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." (i.e. the title of this post). Taken out of context, this would seem to suggest (to me) a belief that if we could simply meditate and avoid external distractions (a commission in the army, conversation, games, Pascal suggests), we might find happiness.
However, a reading of the full passage reveals that "on further consideration" he thinks the reason for this is that if we were to sit with our thoughts, the "natural poverty of our feeble and mortal condition" would drive us to despair.
He thinks that someone who truly understands the human condition would do everything they could to avoid sitting alone with their thoughts ("there is nothing they leave undone in seeking turmoil") . We seek diversion because if we didn't have any distraction, we would end up dwelling on the miserable human condition (selfish, pre-occupied with self-gratification, sensitive to the opinion of others, judgmental, etc. - basically, 'sinful').
In the end, he suggests that we should look for happiness externally, in God, which he then talks about a lot.
[#201908302349]: Blaise Pascal (1958): _Pascal's Pensées_, New York: E.P. Dutton.
Thanks. I was reading this thread thinking that sitting alone with your thoughts does not necessarily bring you peace. It can often do the opposite.
I take time and pray to God each morning. I find that this gives me peace. I feel better prepared to deal with the day when I pray.
My routine is focused around praying the Lord's Prayer, as in the prayer Jesus taught. Praying this prayer over years has enabled some truths to sink in. For example, the first part of the prayer is not about us, it is about God. I think it is good to start the day with the understanding we are not the centre of the universe. Secondly, I have been struck by how the Lord's prayer does not start at the place of forgiveness. Whether that be seeking forgiveness or asking for forgiveness. This gives me peace in the knowledge I don't need to have it all together before I engage with God in prayer.
A buddhist, occultist, or existentialist might suggest Pascal just didn't explore this space far enough. Those with the courage to question even the existence of God and meaning might find more rewarding insights or experiences.
With all the sociological data we have now, it’s almost certain that Pascal’s wager has never been more true for those looking to lead a meaningful life.
I used to have a close friend who was constantly getting into trouble (and calling me to bail her out, sometimes literally). Minor run ins with the police, car accidents, making shady deals or getting into debt to random lowlifes she just met. I always used to say that I wished she would just stay in her room and sit on the bed. Save both of us so much trouble!
This was in the days before social media, otherwise I'm sure she would have done plenty of damage from her room.
Makes me wonder what the reality is with kids nowadays that are right there under their parents nose noodling around on their phone. Are they getting into less trouble, or more trouble?
Modern phones have done a tremendous job of taking the thrill out of various troublesome activities.
You could let someone else play a game, you could let someone else risk STDs, someone else do the risky heists and killing etc all while watching from the comfort of your couch, living your life as a voyeur.
IMO that definitely means folks are getting in lesser trouble: I think it draws a lot of poison out.
Now is that a good thing: I don’t know. I like the above benefits, who wouldn’t appreciate a docile community! I don’t like the fact that it is drawing away the youth from action. Yes it went wrong in oh so many places, but it is what brought us here. I hate stagnation. Anyway - just me rambling.
I really liked Konrad Lorenz's explanation of this. He said that every innate ability to learn has a corresponding innate "teaching mechanism".
For example, an animal like a duck won't necessarily reason "hmm, is this a safe spot? Maybe I should find an area with more protection from [predator]", instead it will have an innate anxiety that it feels when it is in an unsafe place, and that anxiety will drive it to find a different spot.
This was really an a-ha moment for me. Where I previously thought that anxiety and "depression" (not clinical depression) were mysterious unexplainable side-effects of evolution, now I see that they are probably innate mechanisms that spur us to go out, learn more, find opportunity, exercise, meet people etc. Our bodies know when we are stagnating before our minds do.
The fact that we can override those innate mechanisms and sit alone in a quiet, empty room at all is what is really impressive.
Indeed. Reasoning based on intelligence came much later into the evolutionary scene. Emotions form a part of the optimization process for animals, creating shorter feedback loops. We feel pain because we won't attend to the injury if we didn't. The evolutionary significance of most emotions can likewise be reasoned about. (I've found relatively less for explaining jealousy in what I've casually read).
Yes!! This is where our modern society has gotten off track in thinking emotions such as fear are “bad”. That’s like saying skin is bad. It’s simply there to protect you. Unlike skin, sometimes our emotions try a little too hard to protect us but we can practice noticing that and in doing so the mind begins to learn better what should and should not be feared.
This quote has fascinated me for a long time. It seems that this is a skill that can be sharpened with deliberate practice.
I went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat (Vipasana) abs felt I got much more comfortable sitting by myself just observing my thoughts. The practice part was difficult, probably one of the hardest things I have ever done. 10 days of no talking/reading/writing, sitting in a room, observing your sensations, for hours on end, punctuated by 5 minute breaks. I felt the world temporarily go from HD to 4K after a couple of days.
Anyways, this really made me reconsider my relationship with thoughts. I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This helps me with my anxiety.
I've done a variety of meditation techniques and certainly appreciate the benefits they may offer.
One thing I'd say is that it's not always the techniques that feel the hardest that actually offer the most benefits. I believe Buddha's term "middle way" referred to a way that was in the middle between extreme privation/altered consciousness and the ordinary world. I think those interested in meditation techniques should consider this.
And in terms of long term silent retreats, I had an old friend who's schizophrenic symptoms were intensified by retreats of that sort and meditation in general isn't a thing that's riskless - I recall the possibility of serious reactions to meditation and intensive meditation in particular has been documented in a number of articles.
This is the opinion of an amateur, but I think this is where "skillful effort" comes into play. A retreat like that will be less strenuous if you already have a daily meditation practice.
I wouldn't describe a weeklong meditation retreat as the "extreme" side of the Buddha's middle way. That would be more like starving yourself in asceticism. With the right practice/preparation (IE a few months of daily hour-long sits), I think a weeklong retreat would be beneficial and reasonable for most people.
Of course, getting to the point of a daily practice is pretty challenging itself, but not too much more than the average workout routine in my opinion.
I read that the 'middle way' was as opposed to practices mortifying the body, eg starvation, self flagellation etc, which were popular at the time the Buddha was around.
I also attended a 10-day silent meditation retreat (the Goenka one) three years ago. I'm an atheist. I learned a crucial life skill at the retreat: awareness of my mood and thoughts. It's like adding realtime metrics to my emotional core and consciousness core. My state became observable. Since then, I've built a habit of checking those metrics and taking actions to improve my wellbeing. My life has gotten a lot better.
This separation of "sense of being" from thought also has been expressed in the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti, Sri Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. The writings of Nisargadatta are especially helpful in shedding more light on this phenomenon.
A very very corny way I like to think about this is the separation of the init process (being) from other processes (thought, sensation etc.). I know this is a very superficial interpretation, but I find it helpful.
Another corny metaphor I use for my mind is: Most of my thoughts are runaway processes that are just burdening my system. You don't want your CPU going at 100% for extended periods of time, same for the mind.
This is why I think it is important to understand and practice meditation and prayer. Maybe most don't understand the psychology behind it but dedicating some time during your day to sit and think can be surprisingly beneficial.
The thing that’s been on my mind lately is that the definition of our human sentience is that a thought about a thought is itself a thought. We to some extent have solved the halting problem. Or rather it doesn’t apply to the way our programming works, if you will.
Don't think about the thoughts, just feel them. If you burn your hand, what comes first, the sensation of pain or thinking about it? Just be with the sensation, and don't drop into more thoughts about thoughts.
> I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times.
This is key. Too much importance to thinking and thoughts otherwise all around. See even during "meditation" we tend to talk about "watching thoughts" like they are something special worth that attention.
Readit News
"That is why we like noise and activity so much. That is why imprisonment is such a horrific punishment. That is why the pleasure of being alone is incomprehensible. That is, in fact, the main joy of the condition of kingship, because people are constantly trying to amuse kings and provide them with all sorts of distraction.—The king is surrounded by people whose only thought is to entertain him and prevent him from thinking about himself. King though he may be, he is unhappy if he thinks about it"
https://books.google.com/books?id=KezeDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=P...
For December, I quit sugar, social media, and video games. It's been really interesting to notice what state I'm in when I go to reach for those things. Sometimes it's just habit, but often it's because I'm uncomfortable or in distress and want to avoid those feelings. But indulging in those things often just kicks the problem down the road.
Indeed, breaking my social media habits reminds me of Oscar Wilde talking about cigarettes: "A cigarette is the perfect type of a perfect pleasure. It is exquisite, and it leaves one unsatisfied. What more can one want?" The same for me is definitely true with Twitter and Facebook. An infinite feed of shiny, entertaining, funny, and outraging things, but almost nothing that's ever satisfying.
Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit religious order, set up a daily ritual to help keep himself (and those in the order) centred:
> To help me remember the five steps, I like to use a 5-Rs mnemonic:
> Relish the moments that went well and all of the gifts I have today.
> Request the Spirit to lead me through my review of the day.
> Review the day.
> Repent of any mistakes or failures.
> Resolve, in concrete ways, to live tomorrow well.
* https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic-resources/ignatian-spir...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_Exercises_of_Ignatiu...
If you go online you can probably find a Jesuit retreat centre not too far from you where you can spend (say) eight days in total silence and seclusion; you can optionally (though recommended) talk with a spiritual director once a day to help you sort through anything that bubbles up during your stay.
The BBC had a short doc where a bunch of random men and women went through the exercise (episodes are available online if you search):
* https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2117584/
Perhaps worthwhile, even if that is not your particular worldview.
(This is separate than what monks do, which is seclusion from the world.)
Most faiths in the world have spiritual traditions where silence and reflection are done. Probably possible to find similar retreat centres following their traditions. It seems that it is only the modern secular worldview that hasn't adopted something (yet?). I think this is something most modern philosophical worldviews (especially in the materialist bend) overlook: human 'spiritually' (for lack of a better word).
very valuable quote
Facebook has been making it pretty easy for me to quit - it's mostly been an unending stream of boring advertisements with maybe one or two meaningful posts from friends.
It's akin to eating processed snacks when you're hungry, instead of nutrient whole foods
Whatever condition we picture to ourselves, if we muster all the good things which it is possible to possess, royalty is the finest position in the world. Yet, when we imagine a king attended with every pleasure he can feel, if he be without diversion, and be left to consider and reflect on what he is, this feeble happiness will not sustain him; he will necessarily fall into forebodings of dangers, of revolutions which may happen, and, finally, of death and inevitable disease; so that if he be without what is called diversion, he is unhappy, and more unhappy than the least of his subjects who plays and diverts himself.
Hence it comes that play and the society of women, war, and high posts, are so sought after. Not that there is in fact any happiness in them, or that men imagine true bliss to consist in money won at play, or in the hare which they hunt; we would not take these as a gift. We do not seek that easy and peaceful lot which permits us to think of our unhappy condition, nor the dangers of war, nor the labour of office, but the bustle which averts these thoughts of ours, and amuses us.
Reasons why we like the chase better than the quarry.
Hence it comes that men so much love noise and stir; hence it comes that the prison is so horrible a punishment; hence it comes that the pleasure of solitude is a thing incomprehensible. And it is in fact the greatest source of happiness in the condition of kings, that men try incessantly to divert them, and to procure for them all kinds of pleasures.
The king is surrounded by persons whose only thought is to divert the king, and to prevent his thinking of self. For he is unhappy, king though he be, if he think of himself.
This is all that men have been able to discover to make themselves happy. And those who philosophise on the matter, and who think men unreasonable for spending a whole day in chasing a hare which they would not have bought, scarce know our nature. The hare in itself would not screen us from the sight of death and calamities; but the chase which turns away our attention from these, does screen us.
And talking about the kings, one of the pious said : “If the kings and the children of the kings knew what [felicity] we are in, they would fight us over it with their swords.”
This is really interesting from a modern perspective. I'm an audiophile - I've spent countless hours just sitting in a chair in front of a stereo system I've spent a couple thousand on. If I ever lapse into non-attention to the music, I try and get back to the music. It's like mindfulness meditation, but unlike the monk, my mind is focusing on a sense, not emptying itself.
On the other hand, I can't lie in bed for more than two minutes without deep introspection - my morality, arguments for and against all positions, what projects I want to work on, the papers I've read, etc.
But before writing some comments on this website and elsewhere, I'll have a deep think about what I'm arguing, and why. Other times I'll just jump at it for the engagement, the thrill of refreshing in the morning to check the Hacker News Engagement Number, whatever else. I've tried to make an effort to not read outrage-bait on Reddit, I've deleted my Twitter account years ago, I've done countless things. This i my third HN account.
The best part of my day, after work and my energy is exhausted? Gaming. I only play one game - online and multi-player, with an Icelandic man I've never met. It's all a distraction. Why continue learning piano, Japanese, philosophy, literature, introspection, when I have this pleasure right here? Where will I be in 30 years? 20 years? Even writing this comment sadness comes over me.
To think that in the 19th century, there were men being compared to Hegel and Feuerbach at age 21. What the hell am I doing?
Like 3-5 men (i.e. the Young Hegelians) among a billion people?
It's not like it was some common accomplishment...
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Someone can paste it here after googling.
I think Pascal was correct because at least those people I know well enough to discuss such matters with tell me they don't spend much time thinking or contemplating about much at all. This is a bit strange to me as I've always thought about things—mind you, not necessarily things of great importance but about things in general. It's dead easy for me to daydream time away (unfortunately). (When I was at school one of the punishments was to be sent to stand in a corner and stare at the wall. It used to send some kids almost crazy but never bothered me much—all I had to do was to go into daydream mode to pass time away!)
Since reading this article it's occurred to me that those people who've really struggled with the isolation of COVID-19 lockdowns and who continually seek the company of other people are perhaps those who suffer this 'inability to sit quietly in a room alone'. I mention this because during earlier posts on the topic of large numbers of people who were not coping with the enforced isolation, I said that for me, if anything, the enforced lockdown was a blessing as I wasn't continually having to deal with people I'd rather not deal with. Similarly, I find noise and activity distracting, even annoying at times.
No doubt when COVID-19 is over and the postmortems begin in earnest, this connection will be researched.
Another afterthought, perhaps those best suited to interplanetary traveling will be those who do have a good ability to quietly contemplate things (after all, it's likely they'll be forced to do lots of it).
External stimulus means you’re with other humans that you can cooperate with. That you’re sharing stories and learning. That you’re hunting for food. That you’re building a shelter. All these things are necessary for survival. It seems possible that being sociable and industrious might well have been bread into us at some point. And it’s probably the reason we aren’t like big cats in Africa, just hunting and then resting to conserve energy.
We should not be suggesting to people that their instincts are a moral failure to be cured.
Watch animals: they meditate instinctively. Dogs, cats, birds, they all do it.
Just like animals all stretch instinctively. (We had some chickens for awhile this year and they stretch too. It's funny: they stretch the wing and leg on one side together, then the other side.)
What I'm saying is, "yoga" and "meditation" are necessary for survival. You gotta remember civilization is only 12K years old, that's nothing in the biological scheme of things. We should be spending a lot more time napping and "zoning out".
> …that people detest being made to spend six to 15 minutes in a room by themselves with nothing to do but think – even to the extent of being willing to give themselves mild electric shocks instead.
Simply pointing out the importance of external stimuli is like responding to an observation that many people cannot hold their breath for 30 seconds (say) by pointing out the importance of breathing.
I began a new job recently and was shocked to find out they have a speaker system that plays music everywhere in the building including office areas. On my first day, they were playing gangsta rap all day long...
So now, in order for me to focus and do what I'm being paid to do, I have to separate myself from the environment by either working from home (in silence) or using ANC headphones all day, which is not pleasant.
Thinking is the last remaining freedom, as long as you don't say all the things you think of out loud. :)
Absolutely, right on both accounts. (Occasionally swearing under my breath sometimes gives the game away.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Gedanken_sind_frei
Also check out the author and what other things he wrote.
* the modern world emergently selects for these interruptions, I'm not suggesting an anti-mindfulness conspiracy. Its why Buddha is sometimes depicted with lions and tigers. The legend is that when a meditating practitioner is near to enlightenment, he or she will hallucinate ferocious beasts and those are illusions that come about as he nears enlightenment in order to distract him or her.
You're right. In my opinion, one of the best examples of this is to be seen in our films, videos and multimedia presentations, etc. With very few exceptions, extremely tight editing is now the norm, scenes are cut to within an inch of incomprehension and there's rapid switching from one scene to another and back again. We now have the ridiculous situation where scene switching is so rapid that the set designer's work is in vain as the viewer has hardly sufficient time to comprehend the foreground material let alone the background scenery. (You can easily test this by recording some typical video then playing it back and asking typical viewers to explain what they've seen. It's devastatingly informative in the negative sense in that they miss almost everything!)
From my observation, this fast, ever-changing stimuli is harmful from the perspective that people now have a shallower grasp on reality/everyday things around them than they once did when times weren't quite so fast. What's more troubling is that there seems to be no attempt to make people aware of the fact.
Me as well. I wonder if it is the upside to having near-crippling ADHD.
Always been afraid of my terrible impulse control sending me to prison for one reason or another but never considered that I could just daydream the time away. Good to know.
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Then, it is a lot harder to reach to your cellphone when you walk. So it helps me get rid of 2 major distractions, body and phone, with very little effort. Now I can think.
I find audiobooks and podcasts are also great for walking. Popular science and good self help is interesting but the best ones for a quiet state of complementation are thoughtful interviews, biographies and story driven intellectual books (Yuval Noah Harari is particularly excellent). In some ways they are another distraction but I like to listen for a while then take off the headphones and think on a section while I walk another mile.
I think this has to be about the 'diffused mode' of the brain- they talked about in the course 'Learning How To Learn'- as opposed to the focused mode.
Though you mention that walking is what helps you keep distractions under control, I like to go walking while listening to history/science podcasts, since it helps me understand the content a lot better.
The act of walking is said to be greatly beneficial for thinking in its own right [0].
So when I get an idea, I usually drop everything I'm doing and go for walk. And my anecdata can only confirm that it's beneficial.
This is why I am so excited about the idea of working remotely using AR glasses. Just imagine going hiking through the mountains while checking your emails or being on a conference call – only taking breaks to type out some code on a portable keyboard.
Regardless of the cognitive performance boost this would give you, it would also mitigate a lot of the health issues we humans have started accumulating since we started sitting down all day.
Of course Einstein also famously claimed to have only moved to Princeton for the walks home with Gödel [1].
[0] I found this news item in a pinch, but I'm sure there are many studies to substantiate the claim: https://news.stanford.edu/2014/04/24/walking-vs-sitting-0424...
[1] I would have to do some digging to find the original phrasing (Einstein is often misattributted), so take it with a pinch of salt. But there is an entire book who's title alludes to this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Einstein_Walked_with_G%C3...
(the book is great btw)
I dont listen to music in headphones often at all - Especially when running or biking - I like the calm silence of just me and my thoughts.
- Franz Kafka
When the central channel (referred to as sushumna in yoga) is open and energy flows freely, you can feel ecstatic sensations in the centre of the brain as the upper centres become energised. It's important to relax the body, including the eyes, head and brain itself.
I feel it like a sort of exhilaration, like the first time I went on a rollercoaster or cycled my bike fast down a hill etc. It's an electrically alive feeling.
I hear this is just the start: what starts as a trickle becomes a torrent, apparently.
To also contribute to the discussion. I often joke that it takes effort to mess things up. You could instead lay on the beach enjoy the evening breeze than putting in that effort. So before you delve into that process, take a step back and think carefully what you want out of it.
I like long walks accompanied by music (ambient music). Walking can be a deeply meditative experience, just pick terrain that won't give you trouble (no high traffic streets, no steep hills etc) and just go. Walk until your body starts doing it mechanically, and don't focus on the destination nor in search of stimuli. Maybe because walking exerts energy, it can be more effective than just sitting or laying down - when you are really energetic and not tired. Maybe because the scenery changes and it acts as a context switch to our minds.
It has been both effective as a form of emotion regulation, coming up with novel solutions, and just feeling more in sync with myself.
The key word here being “practice”. I doubt anyone achieves these ecstatic states without it.
> When I have occasionally set myself to consider the different distractions of men, the pains and perils to which they expose themselves at court or in war, whence arise so many quarrels, passions, bold and often bad ventures, etc., I have discovered that all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, that they cannot stay quietly in their own chamber. A man who has enough to live on, if he knew how to stay with pleasure at home, would not leave it to go to sea or to besiege a town. A commission in the army would not be bought so dearly, but that it is found insufferable not to budge from the town; and men only seek conversation and entering games, because they cannot remain with pleasure at home.[139][#201908302349]
This quote is often summarized roughly as: "all of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." (i.e. the title of this post). Taken out of context, this would seem to suggest (to me) a belief that if we could simply meditate and avoid external distractions (a commission in the army, conversation, games, Pascal suggests), we might find happiness.
However, a reading of the full passage reveals that "on further consideration" he thinks the reason for this is that if we were to sit with our thoughts, the "natural poverty of our feeble and mortal condition" would drive us to despair.
He thinks that someone who truly understands the human condition would do everything they could to avoid sitting alone with their thoughts ("there is nothing they leave undone in seeking turmoil") . We seek diversion because if we didn't have any distraction, we would end up dwelling on the miserable human condition (selfish, pre-occupied with self-gratification, sensitive to the opinion of others, judgmental, etc. - basically, 'sinful').
In the end, he suggests that we should look for happiness externally, in God, which he then talks about a lot.
[#201908302349]: Blaise Pascal (1958): _Pascal's Pensées_, New York: E.P. Dutton.
I take time and pray to God each morning. I find that this gives me peace. I feel better prepared to deal with the day when I pray.
My routine is focused around praying the Lord's Prayer, as in the prayer Jesus taught. Praying this prayer over years has enabled some truths to sink in. For example, the first part of the prayer is not about us, it is about God. I think it is good to start the day with the understanding we are not the centre of the universe. Secondly, I have been struck by how the Lord's prayer does not start at the place of forgiveness. Whether that be seeking forgiveness or asking for forgiveness. This gives me peace in the knowledge I don't need to have it all together before I engage with God in prayer.
"Believe me or suffer for eternity!"
This was in the days before social media, otherwise I'm sure she would have done plenty of damage from her room.
Makes me wonder what the reality is with kids nowadays that are right there under their parents nose noodling around on their phone. Are they getting into less trouble, or more trouble?
You could let someone else play a game, you could let someone else risk STDs, someone else do the risky heists and killing etc all while watching from the comfort of your couch, living your life as a voyeur.
IMO that definitely means folks are getting in lesser trouble: I think it draws a lot of poison out.
Now is that a good thing: I don’t know. I like the above benefits, who wouldn’t appreciate a docile community! I don’t like the fact that it is drawing away the youth from action. Yes it went wrong in oh so many places, but it is what brought us here. I hate stagnation. Anyway - just me rambling.
For example, an animal like a duck won't necessarily reason "hmm, is this a safe spot? Maybe I should find an area with more protection from [predator]", instead it will have an innate anxiety that it feels when it is in an unsafe place, and that anxiety will drive it to find a different spot.
This was really an a-ha moment for me. Where I previously thought that anxiety and "depression" (not clinical depression) were mysterious unexplainable side-effects of evolution, now I see that they are probably innate mechanisms that spur us to go out, learn more, find opportunity, exercise, meet people etc. Our bodies know when we are stagnating before our minds do.
The fact that we can override those innate mechanisms and sit alone in a quiet, empty room at all is what is really impressive.
I went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat (Vipasana) abs felt I got much more comfortable sitting by myself just observing my thoughts. The practice part was difficult, probably one of the hardest things I have ever done. 10 days of no talking/reading/writing, sitting in a room, observing your sensations, for hours on end, punctuated by 5 minute breaks. I felt the world temporarily go from HD to 4K after a couple of days.
Anyways, this really made me reconsider my relationship with thoughts. I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This helps me with my anxiety.
One thing I'd say is that it's not always the techniques that feel the hardest that actually offer the most benefits. I believe Buddha's term "middle way" referred to a way that was in the middle between extreme privation/altered consciousness and the ordinary world. I think those interested in meditation techniques should consider this.
And in terms of long term silent retreats, I had an old friend who's schizophrenic symptoms were intensified by retreats of that sort and meditation in general isn't a thing that's riskless - I recall the possibility of serious reactions to meditation and intensive meditation in particular has been documented in a number of articles.
Which relates to claims about "All problems"
I wouldn't describe a weeklong meditation retreat as the "extreme" side of the Buddha's middle way. That would be more like starving yourself in asceticism. With the right practice/preparation (IE a few months of daily hour-long sits), I think a weeklong retreat would be beneficial and reasonable for most people.
Of course, getting to the point of a daily practice is pretty challenging itself, but not too much more than the average workout routine in my opinion.
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A very very corny way I like to think about this is the separation of the init process (being) from other processes (thought, sensation etc.). I know this is a very superficial interpretation, but I find it helpful.
This is key. Too much importance to thinking and thoughts otherwise all around. See even during "meditation" we tend to talk about "watching thoughts" like they are something special worth that attention.