Provenance and trust are relevant for a remote KVM.
But I can't find any information on their Web site about who runs the JetKVM company, not even a partial name or handle of anyone, nor even what country they are in. Which seems odd for how much this product needs to be trusted.
Searching elsewhere, other than the company Web site... Crunchbase for JetKVM shows 2 people, who it says are based in Berlin, and who also share a principal company, BuildJet, which Crunchbase says is based in Estonia. The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen. BuildJet apparently is a YC company, but BuildJet's Web site has very similar lack of info identifying anyone or their location, again despite the high level of trust required for this product.
Are corporate customers who are putting these products into positions of serious trust -- into their CI, and remote access to inside their infrastructure -- doing any kind of vetting? When the official Web sites have zero information about who this is, are the customers getting the information some other way, before purchasing and deploying?
If these people are still running the companies, why aren't they or anyone else mentioned on the company Web sites? That would be helpful first step for trust for corporate use. So its absence is odd.
If you do this sort of thing often, I'd love to chat further. I'm basically trying to automate this sort of manual research around companies with a library of deep research APIs.
We launched corporate hierarchy research and working on UBO now. From the corporate hierarchy standpoint, it looks like the Delaware entity fully owns the Estonian entity. Auto generated mermaid diagram from the deep research:
It's fairly easy to know how to poke around these businesses. Look up the people, the business, and the product. It's less fun when it involves linkedin. Every country has a database of business numbers to name and rough documentation. Dns look up can reveal some information. Social media typically finish the rest. These "founders" are often serial founders, with a ton of abandoned projects and a trail on product hunt, and other websites.
In this case, what really gets to me is the basic template website they're using; with image carousel but only one image... and the fact that they appeared to have paid influencers on youtube to shill their product.
Looks like you have a potentially great business for corporate compliance, if you can answer with plausibly high confidence (or indemnify?).
I only occasionally research companies, and it's from an engineering&product perspective, aside from corporate ownership compliance. (For example, I was asked to vet a little-known company as a prospective partner, for building our cloud infrastructure atop theirs. One of the first rapid low-cost, high-value things I could do, besides looking at their docs and trying their demos, was to skim through the history of business news about them.)
I don't think this is nearly at the stage of "corporate customers putting into serious trust"
Buildjet (the parent company) looks to be a pretty small company with currently modest revenue[1]. I agree that the absence of people on both webpages is sort of odd. I think it make more sense for their original service (CI workers) than it does for a hardware product.
i got nanokvm pro desktop a couple of days ago. looks like what was before is no more now. i run tcpdump for a while, the only outbound connections are ntp
I think products like JetKVM are targeting hobbyists and small outfits; corporations who aren't on a public cloud are using stuff like idrac, ilo, or dedicated rackmount KVM hardware.
True. Small outfits can be a pretty big category of companies that don't have a fully locked-down enterprise security environment with clout who can insist that everything like that racked and put under their control.
Homelabbers tend to like rackmount. (I've owned multiple servers with such dedicated remote management/access hardware built in.)
JetKVM seems designed to be more a shadow IT at individual desks solution, for use at companies that don't prohibit and actively police that.
I'm joking a bit but these are exactly the entities that have fewer capabilities to detect malicious behavior.
Assuming JetKVM is operating in full good faith that doesn't mean they themselves aren't going to be the target. You compromise them and you compromise all their customers. That's true regardless of the company size, but is also the reason for transparency
The target market does not alleviate any concerns. Consumer grade hardware is used to build botnets and residential proxy networks. The latter could be used to get into your employer if they happen to have credentials and want to match your home IP to avoid detection.
It does share similarity to a rebranded Sipeed NanoKVM model already sold in China.
Would have to dump the flash with proper tooling, and load up a clean OS on a blank chip to even begin checking for issues. Mostly, these gadgets are purposely built like garbage for a number of reasons.
If I needed a DIY KVM install for a home-theater, I'd just setup a https://pikvm.org/ install. =)
For those prices I could buy an old PC to do out of band management and have over half the money left over. The appeal of JetKVM/NanoKVM is they're price competitive with an extra PC for a tiny fraction of the physical and power footprint.
The website mentions Kickstarter, and Kickstarter page [0] has "Founders" section. It's pretty fuzzy, but at least there are founders' names. But the country of jurisdiction is not mentioned anywhere, and it is very important for remote KVMs.
> Founder Team
> Our founders and team work remotely, scattered across the world, including Germany, China, and New Zealand. We gathered experience from the field of design to software engineering & hardware development. We are the right blend of people, sharing expertise in our team. We're server enthusiasts and thriving to create products that also, literally, work for us.
Co-Founders of JetKVM - Adam Shiervani(left), Lian Duan(right)
> Lastly, we are not the only ones, who are dedicated and working full-time on this project. A number of contractors, specializing in various fields are helping us every day, to move forward and unfold the potential of our ideas.
Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
> The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen
This is not unusual for low-count (<10000) orders and "cut the middleman" when you can't recoup the logistics cost of having a local stock.
Most products come out of Shenzen (or another) anyway, "shipped from" is quite a lousy indicator of anything.
I would appreciate a bit more transparency regarding some provenance bits but hey it's a niche Kickstarter still, not a full-blown scaled-up enterprise.
> Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
They've all made doing business remarkably easy - you can get a digital ID and open a bank account without ever being present in the country, and their digital offerings are based on solid crypto and not just centralization.
An incredible example of what modernizing government infrastructure and regulation can do. It's a shame that the cryptobros currently in charge of the US have basically nuked Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) so that they can continue to grift without supervision.
Estonia is (trying to be) the Delaware of the EU for companies. They make it deliberately convenient for any Europeans to incorporate there, so I wouldn't read much into that.
It's difficult for me to tell how many of the issues in that thread are serious, because there also seem to be a surprising number of people who come back to say "I solved it by enabling h264 in my browser".
On the other hand there are people who say "I ordered three, two work and one doesn't" which seems like pretty good evidence there can be real issues with the hardware.
I’ve been using the glinet comet kvm for my homelab and have no complaints. Their cloud is optional and I don’t use it. The built in tailscale client does what I need it to. I use it with their ATX power accessory to manage physical power on/off when needed.
Given that these things have bare metal access, keeping them off of the public internet seems wise no matter what though.
Keeping these kind of management devices off the Internet seems prudent. But how do you do that and still get Tailscale to work? Assign the device to a separate vlan that is restricted to only talk to Tailscale? Otherwise, if the device is on your regular network, it will still be connected to the internet.
Thanks for this. I've been daydreaming about something like this to replace my Lantronix Spider, but... sounds like I'll stick with the steampunk old-tech for a little while longer :)
The virtualization KVM is the new kid to the block. Back in the day the best way to get multiple machines controlled was to just have multiple machines sharing the same monitor, keyboard and mouse.
100% agree! And I'm pretty sure the Linux community had many more (hardware) KVM users than the general population. Kernel-based virtualization should've been abbreviated KbVM.
I'm mildly confused as to the value over, say RustDesk. The latter allows remote control of external machines and has ip hole punching .. no hardware involved! Any takes here?
RustDesk is an alternative to other remote desktop software, JetKVM is an alternative to a built-in IPMI. It could be used as a remote desktop in a pinch, but that's not really the main point.
E.g. you'd use JetKVM-like devices to re-install your OS via emulated drives, remotely control power (including hard reset, not just WoL and software shutdown), change BIOS settings, or troubleshoot a crashing box - all without relying on any specific software/capabilities/behavior of the given box. Meanwhile you'd use remote desktop software when you just want the desktop to present itself remotely.
RDP is over network, which doesn't work well if your need to access a machine that doesn't have a working network stack because you're troubleshooting a hardware failure, early boot failure, OS provisioning, etc.
KVM can also be nicer than RDP for certain multi-box workstation setups that need high bandwidth and low latency.
I've been really happy with my JetKVM. The tariff situation is unfortunate, my recollection is that it was something like $50 during the kickstarter (could be wrong, didn't check). Looking around a bit, I'm not sure I see anything remotely as hackable at a competitive price, so maybe $90 is still a great deal.
I wish there was a way of ordering from a non-US source so I didn't get hit. I'm not in the US, so it feels silly that I have to pay the American import tariffs on Chinese goods!
I believe the $90 is "mostly" without the tariffs - it appears to be the updated post-Kickstarter price (which was $70). The iKoolCore distributor says:
> US Tariff update: There are currently no additional tariffs, but this may change after November 1st. We’ll ship your order promptly to help minimize the risk of tariffs, though we can’t guarantee none will apply.
I am in the USA and the unit I ordered from iKoolCore is being shipped to me from China. I have no idea how much more I might have to pay in tariffs once it arrives to customs, or how I will even go about paying those tariffs.
PiKVM seems to be the large competitor here and is completely open source. If you're looking into KVM solutions, probably check it out, but JetKVM is over 50% less, which is a huge argument in favor of it.
What justifies the V4 Plus being worth $350? They're using the CM4 so they’ve made a PCB, but what hardware are they adding over the peripherals available on a Pi 4/5? All I can tell is an additional Ethernet port, a SIM card tray, and an “ATX controller”.
What does the board look like, why can’t I DIY that version, etc. Are they just trying to make it up with the software (that I also can’t tell what it looks like).
It's not really worth that much. You absolutely could DIY it, probably just kludge in a basic $30 HDMI capture card. Also JetKVM is now just as "open-source" as PiKVM is, so there's not even a moral high ground to spending extra. Both are open-source software but not open-source firmware or hardware (no schematics or gerbers or anything like that available).
The JetKVM is very impressive looking at a great price. Until recently it wasn't really available in the US but it looks like it is now/
The V4 Mini is a very nice piece of hardware. I paid $300 for one in April from Amazon. I also got PiKVM running on a Pi Zero 2 W and it worked fine but was a bit squirrely. Having the purpose-built device is nice.
You can also use a Pi Zero 2 W as a serial console: it has a USB On-the-Go port perfect for the purpose. But the KVM approach is more generally useful since you can access a consumer BIOS from it.
They recently opened a global store. Previously, the only way to get one was to "buy" it on kickstarter, presumably from the US as well as the rest of the world.
over 50% less the price, I see the JetKVM at $90 USD, but PiKVMs range from $230+.
I found PiKVM useful as I already had the hardware laying around, so setting one up didn't cost me anything, and its a pretty good experience. If I were to buy new though, not sure I'd find it worth the cost for my use case.
I wish there was a KVM out there that didn't need HDMI, where it sat on PCIe bus and presented a really dumb framebuffer/kb/mouse to the BIOS/OS, but sent it out over the network
Yeah there are sort of some BMC/IPMI options like [0] but all of the ones I've seen still require some kind of special (generally proprietary) internal connector on the motherboard, which might not be "HDMI" exactly, but still violates the spirit of your requirements.
I'm thinking similarly, but not via PCIe, but via USB: There are plenty of USB->VGA and USB->HDMI adapters that contain a dumb graphics card. So, embedd one of these and grab the video signal internally.
Thereby, plugging in just a single USB cable would deliver the power needed, keyboard, video and mouse. And bonus for an emulated USB-Stick/DVD drive.
What I don't know if these USB video cards are initialized during early boot and usable during the UEFI/BIOS phase. Is that why they grab the HDMI?
I've had this project idea in my list for a while, I even implemented thr software side (an option rom for the pci card) but the hardware side is quite difficult to get started. My plan was to get an FPGA with a hard pci core to do this, but I don't even know what to buy.
I got a cheap Tang Mega 238k but I never managed to even get the PCI examples working (and couldn't even adjust BAR settings)
It looks like I can find Teradici card for $50-200 (used to new), which is in a similar range as the JetKVM. However, according to the installation manual that I found [0], you still need to plug in the DisplayPort connector on the Teradici host card to the GPU output port(s).
I'd also point out the gl.inet Comet Pro, which has some nice to haves like wifi 6, full sized HDMI ports, HDMI and USB pass through. https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/
The PiKVM approach of having a whole computer you can also use makes so much sense to me. Interesting seeing similar parallels in NAS space, where Ugreen for example is running Debian on their NAS.
Hopefully you are in a network that allows P2P! Then STUN just works and you can use any of the public servers (CloudFlare, Google, Twilio...)
Running your own TURN server would be trivial also. I have been tempted for a long time to make a 'TURN in a Box' that does autoconfig so people can run it easily on Hetzner/AWS
Readit News
But I can't find any information on their Web site about who runs the JetKVM company, not even a partial name or handle of anyone, nor even what country they are in. Which seems odd for how much this product needs to be trusted.
Searching elsewhere, other than the company Web site... Crunchbase for JetKVM shows 2 people, who it says are based in Berlin, and who also share a principal company, BuildJet, which Crunchbase says is based in Estonia. The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen. BuildJet apparently is a YC company, but BuildJet's Web site has very similar lack of info identifying anyone or their location, again despite the high level of trust required for this product.
Are corporate customers who are putting these products into positions of serious trust -- into their CI, and remote access to inside their infrastructure -- doing any kind of vetting? When the official Web sites have zero information about who this is, are the customers getting the information some other way, before purchasing and deploying?
If these people are still running the companies, why aren't they or anyone else mentioned on the company Web sites? That would be helpful first step for trust for corporate use. So its absence is odd.
Had a show HN last week that seemed to go under the radar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45671087
We launched corporate hierarchy research and working on UBO now. From the corporate hierarchy standpoint, it looks like the Delaware entity fully owns the Estonian entity. Auto generated mermaid diagram from the deep research:
In this case, what really gets to me is the basic template website they're using; with image carousel but only one image... and the fact that they appeared to have paid influencers on youtube to shill their product.
It feels rushed, and not in a good way.
I only occasionally research companies, and it's from an engineering&product perspective, aside from corporate ownership compliance. (For example, I was asked to vet a little-known company as a prospective partner, for building our cloud infrastructure atop theirs. One of the first rapid low-cost, high-value things I could do, besides looking at their docs and trying their demos, was to skim through the history of business news about them.)
Deleted Comment
Buildjet (the parent company) looks to be a pretty small company with currently modest revenue[1]. I agree that the absence of people on both webpages is sort of odd. I think it make more sense for their original service (CI workers) than it does for a hardware product.
https://ariregister.rik.ee/eng/company/16075023/Buildjet-O%C...
Personally I'd never use these on an interned facing network. But they can still be handy for local only.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yHhdTRVvDFU&pp=0gcJCQYKAYcqIYz...
Homelabbers tend to like rackmount. (I've owned multiple servers with such dedicated remote management/access hardware built in.)
JetKVM seems designed to be more a shadow IT at individual desks solution, for use at companies that don't prohibit and actively police that.
I'm joking a bit but these are exactly the entities that have fewer capabilities to detect malicious behavior.
Assuming JetKVM is operating in full good faith that doesn't mean they themselves aren't going to be the target. You compromise them and you compromise all their customers. That's true regardless of the company size, but is also the reason for transparency
Putting a BMC or KVM on the Internet is hilariously unwise.
No need worry about dodgy remote desktop software — the attackers will be able to back door the firmware!
(Yes, iLO verifies firmware signatures… but yes they’ve had horrific vulnerabilities, worse than nightmares).
Would have to dump the flash with proper tooling, and load up a clean OS on a blank chip to even begin checking for issues. Mostly, these gadgets are purposely built like garbage for a number of reasons.
If I needed a DIY KVM install for a home-theater, I'd just setup a https://pikvm.org/ install. =)
https://github.com/pikvm/pikvm/
https://github.com/jetkvm
That NanoKVM is RISC-V, the JetKVM is ARM Cortex-A7. Unlikely to be a rebrand.
That said the UI looks somewhat similar so Sipeed might have aped the JetKVM software part (which is FOSS)
> Founder Team
> Our founders and team work remotely, scattered across the world, including Germany, China, and New Zealand. We gathered experience from the field of design to software engineering & hardware development. We are the right blend of people, sharing expertise in our team. We're server enthusiasts and thriving to create products that also, literally, work for us. Co-Founders of JetKVM - Adam Shiervani(left), Lian Duan(right)
> Lastly, we are not the only ones, who are dedicated and working full-time on this project. A number of contractors, specializing in various fields are helping us every day, to move forward and unfold the potential of our ideas.
[0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jetkvm/jetkvm/descripti...
> Estonia
Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
> The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen
This is not unusual for low-count (<10000) orders and "cut the middleman" when you can't recoup the logistics cost of having a local stock.
Most products come out of Shenzen (or another) anyway, "shipped from" is quite a lousy indicator of anything.
I would appreciate a bit more transparency regarding some provenance bits but hey it's a niche Kickstarter still, not a full-blown scaled-up enterprise.
They've all made doing business remarkably easy - you can get a digital ID and open a bank account without ever being present in the country, and their digital offerings are based on solid crypto and not just centralization.
An incredible example of what modernizing government infrastructure and regulation can do. It's a shame that the cryptobros currently in charge of the US have basically nuked Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) so that they can continue to grift without supervision.
Dead Comment
In my case, I found it is not compatible with all HDMI sources but others just have unknown "Loading video stream..." issues.
[0] https://github.com/jetkvm/kvm/issues/84
On the other hand there are people who say "I ordered three, two work and one doesn't" which seems like pretty good evidence there can be real issues with the hardware.
Security is not top priority very obviously, but for a quick kvm on a system without bmc, it’s fine. Picks up DHCP quickly and responsive web UI.
Given that these things have bare metal access, keeping them off of the public internet seems wise no matter what though.
I read that as you were selecting the first record from the people array
Deleted Comment
kvm here mean keyboard video and mouse, not the linux kernel-based virtual machine kvm
this device apparently is used to connect to machines remotely over IP
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45706866#45713054
E.g. you'd use JetKVM-like devices to re-install your OS via emulated drives, remotely control power (including hard reset, not just WoL and software shutdown), change BIOS settings, or troubleshoot a crashing box - all without relying on any specific software/capabilities/behavior of the given box. Meanwhile you'd use remote desktop software when you just want the desktop to present itself remotely.
KVM can also be nicer than RDP for certain multi-box workstation setups that need high bandwidth and low latency.
Deleted Comment
JetKVM – Control any computer remotely - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42986909 - Feb 2025 (1 comment)
JetKVM Source - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42553822 - Dec 2024 (1 comment)
JetKVM – Next generation open-source KVM over IP for $69 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42313894 - Dec 2024 (2 comments)
JetKVM: Tiny IP KVM That's Not an Apple Watch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957056 - Oct 2024 (14 comments)
It would be awesome if they made a PoE version.
I wish there was a way of ordering from a non-US source so I didn't get hit. I'm not in the US, so it feels silly that I have to pay the American import tariffs on Chinese goods!
> US Tariff update: There are currently no additional tariffs, but this may change after November 1st. We’ll ship your order promptly to help minimize the risk of tariffs, though we can’t guarantee none will apply.
I am in the USA and the unit I ordered from iKoolCore is being shipped to me from China. I have no idea how much more I might have to pay in tariffs once it arrives to customs, or how I will even go about paying those tariffs.
https://pikvm.org
What does the board look like, why can’t I DIY that version, etc. Are they just trying to make it up with the software (that I also can’t tell what it looks like).
The V4 Mini is a very nice piece of hardware. I paid $300 for one in April from Amazon. I also got PiKVM running on a Pi Zero 2 W and it worked fine but was a bit squirrely. Having the purpose-built device is nice.
You can also use a Pi Zero 2 W as a serial console: it has a USB On-the-Go port perfect for the purpose. But the KVM approach is more generally useful since you can access a consumer BIOS from it.
https://geekworm.com/collections/pikvm
I found PiKVM useful as I already had the hardware laying around, so setting one up didn't cost me anything, and its a pretty good experience. If I were to buy new though, not sure I'd find it worth the cost for my use case.
0: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/thin...
Thereby, plugging in just a single USB cable would deliver the power needed, keyboard, video and mouse. And bonus for an emulated USB-Stick/DVD drive.
What I don't know if these USB video cards are initialized during early boot and usable during the UEFI/BIOS phase. Is that why they grab the HDMI?
I got a cheap Tang Mega 238k but I never managed to even get the PCI examples working (and couldn't even adjust BAR settings)
https://jetkvm.com/products/atx-extension-board
0: https://anyware.hp.com/web-help/pcoip_remote_workstation_car...
WebRTC is neat. It looks like it relies on CloudFlare WebRTC relay for STUN / TURN, but supposedly you can self-host the cloud api. https://jetkvm.com/docs/networking/remote-access
I'd also point out the gl.inet Comet Pro, which has some nice to haves like wifi 6, full sized HDMI ports, HDMI and USB pass through. https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/
The PiKVM approach of having a whole computer you can also use makes so much sense to me. Interesting seeing similar parallels in NAS space, where Ugreen for example is running Debian on their NAS.
Running your own TURN server would be trivial also. I have been tempted for a long time to make a 'TURN in a Box' that does autoconfig so people can run it easily on Hetzner/AWS