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forgotoldacc · 2 months ago
Looking at the scale of a few years, the dollar has been insanely overvalued post-COVID.

Historically, the euro has generally been a good bit more valuable than the dollar. But in 2022, the dollar was more valuable than the euro at a point. Recently it's been bouncing around at nearly 1 euro=1 dollar.

Then there's the yen. Used to bounce around between 1 dollar = 100~110 yen. Recently reached 1 dollar = 162 yen.

The dollar losing its value is a return to the pre-covid norm. Lots of countries pumped money into the US to make money off skyrocketing stocks and high interest rates, and now they're pulling it back into their countries. It's a high that can't last forever. And if it did last forever, that would not be good for the world as a whole since it would mean every country is supporting the US at the cost of devaluing themselves.

hnlmorg · 2 months ago
I think the bigger problem is the reason why people are pulling back their money from US markets.
AlecSchueler · 2 months ago
It's kind of jaw dropping to see people here continually avoid the elephant in the room, same thing in discussions about Tesla sales.
dismalaf · 2 months ago
US markets have been flying high since COVID. Much more than other countries' markets. Why not take profit when US markets + dollar is at a high?
timewizard · 2 months ago
> the dollar has been insanely overvalued post-COVID.

That's an odd way of saying the US doubled it's federal budget from $3T to $6T in response to COVID and has now ensconced this pork further into law. Under a "republican" administration, no less.

> The dollar losing its value is a return to the pre-covid norm.

Which is to say that even $3T contained an unjustified amount of debt spending just not as obscene as it is today.

> It's a high that can't last forever.

That's the "big beautiful bill" for ya.

throw101010 · 2 months ago
> Under a "republican" administration, no less.

Are you under the impression that this is surprising? Republicans are consistently the ones spending more when they are in power. It's time to dispel this myth that they are fiscally "conservative", they have presented more unbalanced/defficitary budgets than Democrats and the latter in recent memories are the only ones who managed to present budget with surpluses, under Clinton.

littlestymaar · 2 months ago
> Historically, the euro has generally been a good bit more valuable than the dollar. But in 2022, the dollar was more valuable than the euro at a point

That's what inflation does.

People are routinely taught that inflation is the “decline of value of money”, but that's not the reality. Inflation is just the increase in consumer price, which is perceived as a decline in the relative value of the money, but its absolute value on foreign markets isn't (directly) affected by inflation.

And when the Central bank raise the interest rate to cool the economy down and temper inflation, then the absolute value of the money rises (because the higher the interest rates, the pricier the currency on the FX market). This increase in the currency value in turn also helps fighting inflation because it lowers the cost of imported goods.

So, indirectly, because of the central bank's reaction, inflation is actually increasing the absolute value of money, and this is what we saw in 2022 when the Fed raised the interest rates 9 month or so before the ECB start doing the same (because the inflation came in advance for the US compared to EU).

RickJWagner · 2 months ago
If a dollar used to equal 100 yen, and now the dollar is worth 162 yen, isn’t that moving opposite to the stated direction?
corimaith · 2 months ago
>it would mean every country is supporting the US at the cost of devaluing themselves.

That's what they want as export based economies.

forgotoldacc · 2 months ago
Not when you get to the point where your currency is so devalued that importing raw materials necessary for those exports becomes expensive, and basics like food and fuel become unaffordable for locals, as is the case in Japan.

A balance is necessary, and things have been off balance recently.

koliber · 2 months ago
Donald Trump has stated that he wants to weaken the dollar. It seems that he is succeeding.

My guess is that he wants to make it more attractive when it comes time to refinance the large portion of American long-term debt. He also wants to keep the interest rates low for the same reason.

My questions is: What is causing the actual slide? The concrete mechanics and motivations that are causing people to sell USD.

ethbr1 · 2 months ago
Devaluing the dollar is 100% the goal. It's literally noted as a key component in what the people running US trade policy now said they wanted to do, before joining government.

It has the side effect of boosting nominal investment value (even if real value stays flat or decreases), maintaining political support from people who can't do math. The numbers continue to look good, but outcomes worsen.

There are two flies in this ointment: international capital response and inflation.

The latter is why Trump has been spending political capital on demonizing the Fed and Powell. The house of cards collapses if actual inflation bites and reveals the game.

As to the former, it's tough to look at the situation and see US debt / equities as attractive as they once were:

1. Unsustainable US budget deficits

2. Political threats against the US central bank

3. Tariffs

4. Decreased immigration and worsening demographics

presentation · 2 months ago
The yen has other reasons to be weak though, namely that Japan barely increased interest rates as compared to the US.
msgodel · 2 months ago
European interest rates are crazy low, that's why.
Cthulhu_ · 2 months ago
Lower than their 2024 peak, but still much higher than before 2022 where for a long period it was at 0% or even negative interest (apparently, I don't know much about these things). It's at 2% or 2.4% at the moment, last time it was around that was in 2008. See https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/ke...

But I'm no economist and don't know what these numbers mean or what the consequences are.

wqaatwt · 2 months ago
Which would mean that the Euro would depreciate significantly against the dollar under normal circumstances.

Yet the Euro increased by > 10% despite the ECB cutting the rates quite significantly. Imagine how low the dollar would go if the Fed listened to Trump and cut to 1%..

rgmerk · 2 months ago
It seems that no one is prepared to point out the obvious - devaluation of the dollar is a cut in American living standards.
pavlov · 2 months ago
Tariffs and a devaluating currency are a double whammy of inflation on imports.

It will be reflected in overall inflation statistics, and that limits the Fed’s ability to cut rates.

thrance · 2 months ago
> that limits the Fed’s ability to cut rates.

Only insofar as it remains sort of independent. Trump has ranted several times already about taking control of the thing and forcefully cutting rates.

spencerflem · 2 months ago
Totally agreed. My only hope is that the evil bastards who willed this to happen bear the suffering more.
jjav · 2 months ago
They just gave themselves billions in tax cuts, so they'll be comfortable.
corimaith · 2 months ago
Those evil bastards are also most central bankers around the world that agree that the incredibly unbalanced balance of trade today needs to be rebalanced. America is consuming too much, and the world is saving too much. So yes, your living standards do need to go down for the sake of the greater global macroeconomic stability.

Contrary to what xkcd or NYT might tell you, actual economic institutions like the IMF and the World Bank are coigzant of the issues caused by the status quo and largely view the Trumpian diagnosis, if not the horrid execution, as correct.

mensetmanusman · 2 months ago
Low derivatives of US gdp per capita growth over the past decade feels like stagnation to the population.
MuffinFlavored · 2 months ago
Even if you own equities?
snovv_crash · 2 months ago
From outside the US, all the 'stock market gains' have actually been zero or negative because of this. I wonder how long before inflation hits...
patrickhogan1 · 2 months ago
This is spot on and cuts both ways. Much of the Japanese market's recent "performance" in US media is actually just yen weakness against the dollar. Strip out currency effects and the story looks very different. Same with European markets "performance" - we're often seeing monetary policy divergence rather than genuine outperformance in foreign markets.

Always check both local currency and USD returns when evaluating international markets.

argsnd · 2 months ago
European markets are doing fine in Euro terms aren’t they?
mindok · 2 months ago
Not in Australia. Our dollar has taken a beating too. I guess digging holes and selling property to each other at ever higher prices isn’t that interesting to the rest of the economic world.
patrickhogan1 · 2 months ago
Australia printed a lot more money relatively than the US from COVID-19 until now, largely to capitalize on a booming commodities sector. A factor that led to some do weakness.

But I think any weakness is temporary. With a stable government and abundant natural resources that will be even more sought-after in an AI-driven world and largely insulated from automation Australia’s long-term prospects look strong.

lifestyleguru · 2 months ago
> I guess digging holes and selling property to each other at ever higher prices isn’t that interesting to the rest of the economic world.

Wow this is the case in most of the Europe too, what a coincidence. Fancy investing in our premium real estate?

actionfromafar · 2 months ago
If that doesn't work, let's try "one part of the population chasing another part into concentration camps!" That'll attract investors.
mensetmanusman · 2 months ago
The Hole just got 10 ft deeper!
brummm · 2 months ago
Lol, Australia and Canada seem to be very similar in this regard.
mrweasel · 2 months ago
Because stock market gains can't keep up with the lose of the dollars value? Assuming that you bought your stocks using Euros or some other currency?
rsynnott · 2 months ago
Yeah, that's what they mean. Here's a euro-denominated S&P500 ETF: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/CSPX.AS/

and a USD denominated one: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/

Have a look at the 1 year view. Note the fairly dramatic difference.

SeanAnderson · 2 months ago
https://i.imgur.com/LkclqgV.png

Here's how the US Dollar Index has performed over the last ~30 years. The swing looks pretty typical to me. If it drops another 10% (as the article says Morgan Stanley thinks it might) then I could see this event as an outlier. For now, I find it interesting but not especially concerning. There's pros and cons to having stronger/weaker currency. I think it's probably worse to have a volatile currency than an especially strong or weak one?

bbarnett · 2 months ago
As a Canuck who has seen these swings for decades of his life, with both our currency and the US dollar both contributing to this, I see nothing unusual in the current trends.

I take it that the "on track" is determined by extending a current downtrend as if it will continue precisely the same, for the next 6 months, which seems unlikely.

I get that with the recent passage of this US bill, people want to pile on. I can assure you, that Canadians have no love of the current administration. But this is another click-baitish thing being done to us all, feeding on people's upset, the time of year it is, the US holiday, and more.

Ah well.

rokkamokka · 2 months ago
Strike dollar from the title and it'll still be true...
0xy · 2 months ago
The inflation of 2021-24 was a biblical disaster for the working class, and it's nowhere near as bad now. I'd say that makes 2025 a marked improvement from the economic disaster of the last 4 years, and which was backed up in every political poll (economy was issue 1).
mindslight · 2 months ago
The monetary inflation dump in Trump's previous term was early 2020, which then took time to work through asset prices and into consumer prices. So yes the next few years are going to be worse, as the effects of the terrible policies really set in. And unlike last time, we won't have leadership at the helm who might even try pulling up until 2027. And that's assuming enough Americans get their heads on straight to vote out the congress currently rubber stamping this wanton destruction.
qsort · 2 months ago
Strike "the US" as well...
the_third_wave · 2 months ago
Approval poll numbers seem to indicate a plurality of US voters agree with much of what the current government is implementing and for the first time in a very long period the majority of US voters seems to think the country is on the right track. You may not like what Trump and his crew are doing but most people did not like what your preferred candidates were doing and planning to do. Given these numbers I'd say "your democracy" (which is a constitutional republic but I'll just borrow some of the oft-heard rhetoric from the "democratic" party) seems to be functioning quite well and certainly a lot better than under the previous regime when approval numbers were abysmal.
justinrubek · 2 months ago
Nice try, but the comment you're replying to didn't use the word democracy at all. Maybe it would help to read it again.

Just because a group of people approve of things happening doesn't make it a good year. My estranged family does and they don't have a grasp on the notion of cause and effect nor do they have an acceptable level of reading comprehension- I do not value their opinion in the slightest l.

buckhx · 2 months ago
What are you talking about? The admins current net approval rating is -6.9% https://www.natesilver.net/p/trump-approval-ratings-nate-sil... Biden was at a +5% net rating at this point in his term
rayiner · 2 months ago
What does “worst” mean in this context? Countries often want to keep their currency weak because it helps their exports: https://www.investopedia.com/trading/chinese-devaluation-yua... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/devaluation.asp
jamisteven · 2 months ago
Entirely by design.
ggm · 2 months ago
Cheaper dollar boosts US exports. Makes imports more expensive even before tarrifs. Which situationally, some industrial sectors will want. The exporting ones. The ones reliant on imports, less such.

The US isn't self sufficient in food. Food imports are going to get more expensive.

surgical_fire · 2 months ago
> Cheaper dollar boosts US exports

Countries may be unwilling to trade with an increasingly belligerent US that slaps everyone with tariffs. In fact, many will just slap the US with tariffs and other barriers of their own.

throw101010 · 2 months ago
> Which situationally, some industrial sectors will want

No major US export sector operates exclusively as an exporter without any exposure to imports or global supply chains. Even the largest US exporting industries (oil and gas extraction, civilian aircraft and parts, and pharmaceuticals) rely in varying degrees on imported inputs, components, or capital equipment... which companies are you talking about?

mensetmanusman · 2 months ago
The US produces ~4,000 calories per person per day and consumes ~2,500.
lifestyleguru · 2 months ago
> boosts US exports

The world doesn't need that much guns and missiles. There are two major markets currently and that's all mostly.

patrickhogan1 · 2 months ago
DXY index - often what these news reports use when talking about the dollars decline is ~97 today—still stronger than the ~90 it finished 2014 at and almost the same as 2018.

Ask yourself, did you panic during these years? Mostly no. These were pretty good years.

black_puppydog · 2 months ago
that index grew significantly in both those years...
patrickhogan1 · 2 months ago
Volatility is normal - the main point is the index was lower than it is today (meaning we had a weaker dollar than this blog post is referring to as problematic) and the result wasn’t chaos - the economy grew.