Readit NewsFor themselves. To eat. So it’s easy to understand the argument that you’re harming them directly by stealing their honey, which is the result of their labour.
But surely there’s nuance there. I don’t doubt there are ethical growers who provide bees with an extra nice and controlled environment, plus care for them and help them fight pests, and thus feel like taking a share of the produced honey is a fair trade. The bees might agree.
> "So that humans can eat it" isn't the reason in either case.
But it is. In the case of many fruits, the goal is for an animal (humans included) to eat them, seeds and all, then poop them out (bonus fertiliser) somewhere else.
> That's still an arbitrary line, but so are most things.
No disagreement there, but I don’t see how any of that is relevant to my comment. I was correcting a misconception about mushrooms, not debating the nuances of vegan opinions. I don’t care for the label and don’t think it’s helpful to fight about what it means. It’s much more important to strive to be progressively better than to aim for perfection and fail.
Do you think no physical arm is done to an Apple tree for it to give fruits? You should read about fruit tree pruning then…
> But it is. In the case of many fruits, the goal is for an animal (humans included) to eat them, seeds and all, then poop them out (bonus fertiliser) somewhere else.
Which we don't. So we're doing exactly the same thing to tree as we are doing to cow: abusing a natural process that's designed to help their babies.
> I was correcting a misconception about mushrooms, not debating the nuances of vegan opinions.
There's no misconception about mushrooms.
> It’s much more important to strive to be progressively better than to aim for perfection and fail.
The problem is that there isn't an objective definition of “better”. As heterotrophs we can only survive by destroying other living thing. This is a curse we must live with.
Which living thing is fair game is fundamentally an arbitrary position driven by our subjective moral values. You have to draw a line, but there's no valid reason to say that the line must be drawn at the Animalia border rather than at the Tetrapod (which means fish are OK to eat). Most of the arguments that apply to the whole order of animals also apply to most multicellular beings anyway (including the existence of a pain-like mechanism).
You are free to have stronger emotional bonds with a fish or a bee than with a mushroom or a plant, but it's in no way more rational or objectively better than when most people refuse to eat dogs and horses but are fine with cows.
Mushrooms are the fruiting bodies of fungus. Complaining about eating those is akin to complaining about eating apples; you’re not harming the tree.
Why are eggs a problem for vegans then? They are quite literally the “fruit body” of birds. Milk and honey should be even less problematic, as it's not even made of parts of cow or bees.
It's basically a lobbying group to liberalize healthcare in Canada, so of course it's not useful information, its goal isn't to give people a good understanding of the reality, but to persuade people that the system is broken.
> In Fiscal Year 2024/25, there were 222 booking records cancelled and removed f rom the Interior Health (IH) wait list due to the death of the patient while they waited f or their surgical date. There were 59 various types of procedures cancelled due to patient death; Cataracts had 86 (39%), followed by Arthroplasty Knee Replacements 17 (8%)
Also, for this particular regional health authority, only 38% of these wait time were above the target.
> 85 bookings (38%) had been waiting over the clinical benchmark wait time target for that surgery type at the date of patient death.
So yes, most of these death have nothing to do with excessive wait time of patient whose death would have been preventable with another system.
The website is of a "free market think tank", which other project is a video series called "Survivors of Socialism". Yeah.
I guess this is inducing a genetic fallacy, the number might be accurate anyway, but here's the salt.
Edit to add: OK, here's one sample report from their own FOI: https://secondstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/BC-%E2%8...
86 people died while waiting for a cataract operation, 17 people died while waiting for a knee operation... OMG, Canadian healthcare is deathly terrible!!!
Ah yes, they also have testimonies of people having being saved by moving the the US healthcare system, unironically explaining how it's much better than the Canadian one…
Fish don't appear to have the ability to speak or engage in social relationship with other animals in the story, so it makes sense to eat them. Like vegan find it OK eating mushrooms even though they are closer to us than they are to plants.