I'm pleased the pricing is so low. I did some math and if they're making 10k of these (not clear if that's each or all together), there's not a ton of money to be made.
Assuming $100 average profit, that's a $2M for 20k watches. Given the work opportunities that the founder and other employees have, that's not a lot of money for them to make in a year, and it comes with significant risk. Basically seems like this is a passion project, for which I am very grateful!
$100 profit on a $150 watch would be crazy. Rest of the post seems made up too. I don't know where these numbers are coming from. I'm genuinely confused.
MSRP of 3x COGS is a pretty common rule of thumb for hardware. Have to leave room for distribution, software, R&D, returns, SG&A, etc. End of the day, it's probably still only 30-40% gross margin -- less than half of a good SaaS company. Hardware is (indeed!) hard.
I was using a blended average of the $150 and $225 watches. Also, it sounds like some of the components for the $150 watch were literally left over from Pebble days, which means they could have gotten an amazing deal on them.
I ordered my Pebble Time during February 2015 Kickstarter for $169. Today the Core Time 2 is $225 which is the exact same price adjusted for inflation.
The DHL shipping though I remembered it was $25 and it is still $25 today
> Assuming $100 average profit, that's a $2M for 20k watches. Given the work opportunities that the founder and other employees have, that's not a lot of money for them to make in a year, and it comes with significant risk. Basically
Reading through the terms on the shop page, it seems they're preparing to (maybe) raise the prices at any time, and they'll ask you to pay more before shipping, if they end up raising the prices after you buy it.
Whoa didn't see this! What's the language you're referring to? I only saw the part about how either side can cancel without penalty and didn't read a threat of higher pricing into that bit.
I know that the diabetic community are extremely interested on these watches. 30 days of battery life, already working support for Android APS and xDrip with these watches. What is there not to like. Put one of these to your child's wrist and they can get alerts on the glucose level easily.
I would definitely get the color Pebble over many competing devices. I do not need fancy sport features, steps+sleep+heart rate covers all my needs, and 30-day battery life honestly sounds like a dream.
Eric, thank you. Lurking in the forum answering questions evokes people to share their opinion for satisfaction and dissatisfaction and often neglectes to evoke praise (proportionally). I am guilty of this too.
So please have some well deserved praise for your work on this. We have gotten an open source wearable OS, purpose built hardware, R&D, a community, more pressure on Apple to be less of a gatekeeper, and something we can own in a crazy short timeframe. I hope you see this despite it being buried. Thank you, you glorious nerd.
The Nordic nRF52840[1] SoC on which these are based support not only Bluetooth 5.4 but also Thread, Zigbee, and 802.15.4. These three standards are becoming commonplace in the home automation space. Has any thought been given to how the new Pebble devices could utilize these protocols?
Pretty sure those different radio stacks do not run very well in parallel or if they do, they'd likely start to starve the rest in terms of resources needed.
The nRF52840 is not the most performant, I would've really liked if they had chosen a SoC, like the nRF5340, with more RAM or cores for this reason amongst others.
6 months from announcing rePebble (Jan '25) to shipping your first units (July '25) seems like a quick turnaround for a compact consumer electronics device. Curious to know if these first units are closer to a white label of existing hardware or more of a JDM model.
Side note - I got the first pebble through the kickstarter pre-orders in my first year out of high school. Seeing something so novel was definitely a contributor to me switch from CS to Mech E and working in the consumer electronics space now. Thanks for making cool and interesting things :)
No questions but a comment: I rarely get emotionally attached to devices, especially since I have to handle a lot of fancy hardware for work and it gets old quickly. However, there are a few pieces of technology like my Walkman or my Thinkpad X61t that I really liked and was sad to have to let go when their time had come. The Pebble is another one of those devices for me and I'm quite happy that I won't have to it let go for a lot longer that I thought thanks to your new project. Thanks. :-)
What are the dimensions (length and width) of both models? I'm trying to decide if the Time would be too big for my taste, and I'm having a hard time trying to picture what the increased screen diagonal size translates to.
Excited for this release! Have you heard from Intel yet? “Core 2 Duo” was the name of one of their processors in the early days of multicore on a single package.
Not sure if you’ll see this but I’l love to understand - why the slightly weird (to me) differentiation between the two models’ sensors? One has heart rate (which might be considered almost fundamental for smart watches today), the other has magnetic/barometric sensors (which are very nice to have when out and moving)… but neither has both? Is the core 2 duo a “geeky” watch and the other one a “premium” product? I assume the latter also doesn’t support JTAG fiddling around, is that a philosophical choice or more of an engineering time/resource constraint? Thanks in any case, these devices are definitely quite tempting!
(I’m here from 1 day after my comment) Btw I partially found an answer to the first question from the AMA on Reddit - the sensors on the duo were a kind of thanks to the person who helped design it.
I remember that my Pebble 2 (HR) over time (pun intended) would develop play around the rubber button area especially on the right side. Eventually the rubber covering the buttons would break off. This was common to the point people were making 3d-printed replacement parts.
See https://help.rebble.io/pebble-2-buttons/
What's the expected longevity of the buttons this time around, and will you have replacement parts available ?
Thank you for making this happen! My family and friends are sick of my decade-long attachment to my pebble steel by now, haha.
Any chance the particular extra color for the metal one could be an actual metal color? My pebble steel with the metal link band was a great combination of stylish and functional. I never really liked the look of any of the later models so even when I bought them I always went back to my pebble steel. I went ahead and pre-ordered the new metal one and I suppose I’ll go for black if I have to but I really hope you come out with a stainless steel or silver color.
Also what’s the watchband compatibility? Will this work with the original pebble bands or with standard watch bands or something new and proprietary?
> Also what’s the watchband compatibility? Will this work with the original pebble bands or with standard watch bands or something new and proprietary?
It says it works with standard 22mm watchbands, so it seems like you can just put on any 3rd party band you like.
You mention only producing a limited quantity, but do you have any plans to do a second batch next year? I know that knowing the future is impossible and that you thus can't make any promises, but are you at least hoping to be able to make more batches in the future?
I can't spend $225 right now, and by next month I'm guessing the pre-orders will already have blown way past your production quantity ^^
The Core Time 2 mentions heart-rate monitoring. Have you considered also adding an oximeter?
The comparison chart, under "sensors", doesn't mention the compass under the Core Time 2; does the Core Time 2 drop the compass? A 3D magnetometer seems like a useful sensor for orientation purposes.
Is there a light sensor, to allow automatically disabling the backlight when there's enough ambient light and enabling it when there isn't?
You mention "Standard Pebble charger" for both; I'm guessing that that isn't USB-C?
Any chance to open up support and reparability for old pebbles? For example, run the newly open OS on old hardware or source parts for old pebbles, like batteries for pebble time ;)
A few, not sure HN will format this correctly so my bad if these get mushed together:
* The originals used Sharp MiP but advertised them as "e-paper" do your new models use MiP LCD (or similar) or actual "e-paper" ie "e-ink" (electrostatic capsules).
* Pebble time round 2?!?!
* The touchscreen - this is an issue I had on my Galaxy watch including the bezel rotating as well. Are there efforts to pevent the touchscreen from inadvertently doing things when I'm resting one arm against the other? For Galaxy watch I had to switch off bezel rotation/touch screen waking the watch & only allow buttons, because it would constantly wake up when I had my arms crossed/resting position.
* The backlight, is it backlit or front-lit? I suppose this more relates to if it's genuine capsule e-paper, then it would be nice to be front-lit.
I think I am not exactly the intended audience for these devices right now, so my comment will be a bit general. I don't want "a geeky alternative to apple watch" (or an apple watch, for that matter), I basically want Garmin Forerunner 955 alternative that won't keep my data hostage. There are many things I hate about Garmin watches (which I buy nevertheless), but I can forgive almost all of them except that one. I want my data to be bulk-exportable via open API, and not it some raw .fit format (because they have to comply with GDPR after all), but as a first-class feature, that tries to satisfy a customer by exporting any data it produces in any (realistic) format that customer wants. (I assume you are familiar with other wearables, since this is your domain, but just in case: GDPR forces them to make the data they record directly exportable, but they won't willingly do it for anything that is "processed data", so I can backup my HR history, but not the data they use to make these "sleep phases" graphs, and I can only manually export relatively useless .csv summaries for a given date.)
In short, I really want to stop giving my money to Garmin. But I don't want to compromise on quality of the data being recorded. What are your thoughts on that market?
I ordered one, with no experience although like the story and heard about the original.
One very frustrating concern - the warranty. This is $255+ for a device that is only good for 3 million seconds. Would it be possible to arrange replacement at cost after 2 years?
I have no reason to think that it will not work well for 2 years, but I am not prepared to guarantee that in a warranty. That would be taking on too much risk as a small company.
Personally I never found myself using my NFC payment watch. It felt like if I was venturing far enough to the store, I'm just going to bring my phone with me anyways. I wonder if this differs for areas that don't get as much suburban sprawl.
The chip inside claims to support Bluetooth Low Energy, Bluetooth mesh, NFC, Thread and Zigbee. Maybe someone can hack together a payments app using the NFC?
Tbf I want a ring to do it. Samsung execs screwed up bad when they released the galaxy ring not only without nfc payments but also for that horrendous price. What a joke, now the big boy companies are proving that once you ditch engineers for suits enshittification begins.
I ordered a watch and I’m looking forward to making apps for it but I’m more excited at the prospect of making apps for a truly open phone with an eink display and 20x battery life. I think you have enough of a following now to attempt a small run of PebbleOS phones.
I know I’m not the only one and whatever gaps in applications you have aren’t as large as you think and can be filled in by the large passionate community you have fostered.
(and I wouldn’t worry about other attempts that have come
before you. Before Breaking Bad, studios told Vince Gilligan that Weeds already existed.)
I want to get a smartwatch that has enough functionalities to run a time tracker app with the purpose of not having to carry a phone most of the time. The existing ones are all WearOS or Apple watch, neither of which can be used in a freedom-preserving way. Would it be possible to write time tracking apps for these watches?
Can you tell us more about the touch screen? Is it only taps or will it support interactions using drag gestures too? How good is the accuracy, how many different simultaneous interaction surfaces can there realistically be?
Is there an emulator available somewhere where one can start prototyping an app with tap support?
This is what I'm most interested in. My only hope at the moment is for Apple to revive the iPhone mini -- even if they only refresh it every 3-5 years! I'm so bummed I'll be 'forced' to upgrade from my 12 mini later this year for mostly camera and battery reasons, but oh how I wish an iPhone 17 mini was on the horizon.
The original pebble was almost entirely dependent on it's connection with the android/ios app. Given the increase in onboard processing capabilities, are there any plans to allow for a more standalone experience?
As an iPhone+AW (S6) user, I consider the two devices married, perhaps even sharing the same mind. Almost everything that I can do with one is instantly and transparently mirrored on the other.
I can still leave my phone at home, and since I don't have a mobile connection on the watch (intentionally), it means I'm truly and fully offline - but I get to keep many features. I can listen to music (direct connection to BT headphones), tick items off the shopping list, pay for stuff, look up my schedule, etc. Some things could work offline where they currently don't (e.g. weather, maps/public transport), but the caching/syncing is overall surprisingly decent.
Unfortunately, it's all using private APIs, no third party watch has the same access, and you can't e.g. pair the AW with an iPad. But otherwise I think it should be the golden standard (perhaps DMA could get Apple to open up the APIs).
Hey, this is pretty slick! I'm not into smart wearables myself, but if I change my mind (or if I have to recommend one to family or friends) I know where to look!
Question: does either of the model have NFC capabilities, or is there any plans to add this feature in the future? I am looking specifically for a way to pay contactless with Graphene OS (which does not support NFC payments because Google does not want to).
I've preordered the Core Time 2, I'm so incredibly excited that you've resurrected Pebble like this!
My only hope is that you can bring the Time Round back in some form: Mine is unfortunately dead, and they're very difficult to purchase even second hand these days! It was the single best smartwatch I've ever owned and used
Any ideas what the screen refresh rate is going to be at this point? All the screenshots don't have time that includes seconds, and having a watch face that can update at least every second would be a requirement for me.
(I know e-ink displays can have fast refresh rates, like the 60Hz / fps Daylight computer - but that may not be cost effective / battery efficient here?)
Discontinued, but young for Garmin devices and still available if you're willing to pay irrational amounts of money. It doesn't make audio calls out, but can receive audio messages (to Bluetooth headphones) and send/receive "emergency" text messages either to the Garmin emergency response center (sends a helicopter to your location, if required) or by SMS with a few canned messages or tediously entered custom messages to to a predefined, pre-approved set of emergency contacts, as described here:
Just a tip with Apple watches: get the battery service at least once during the lifespan of your watch. It's $99 and Apple gives you a brand new watch.
With that battery service the watch should last you about 6-10 years judging by the current status of my Series 4.
Yes, a watch should be able to last a lot longer than that, but I think if you're buying Apple products you already have the expectation of a maximum 10 year lifespan just from software alone with just about the entire product lineup.
You may have an app draining your battery. Was having the same issue with my watch, I deleted a few apps and all of the sudden my watch was better. I can’t tell you what app was because it was just luck. I was creating space on my phone when it happened.
It most likely has a lot to do with the display tech.
I got 8 days out of the PineTime, which was LED (I assume). You couldn't see anything if the display wasn't turned on.
I just bought a BangleJS (quite a bit cheaper than the Core 2 Duo, but no speaker and only one button) and the estimated battery life is a month. It uses a colour LCD, making the display visible whenever there is light. For example, daylight makes the display bright. It has a light source that gets turned on by the button.
The Core 2 Duo has an e-paper display that only draws power when the display changes.
> This thread is full of people complaining how these aren't like their preferred watches
Which is funny to me because that's explicitly the point.
> These watches are not made for everyone. We want to be upfront with you about what to expect.
It's probably the most frustrating part of smartwatches. Everyone has a different list of mandatory features, and few seem to accept that their list isn't universal. Unlike phones where just about all of them have just about all the features, the smartwatch market is a wild west. It makes finding the right one for you a lot of work, and it's understandably disappointing when a watch checks all but one or two of your "must have"s.
The issue I'm seeing is many people were expecting the watch that was advertised in the old Kickstarter.
The "pebble 2" from the Kickstarter -> "core 2 time"
The "pebble 2 time" is nowhere to be found.
(The pebble 2 time was supposed to be the same underlying hardware, but a much classier case, slightly different form factor). They look much more like a normal watch, versus the pebble style feels like a geek toy.
I still get compliments on my pebble time round to this day!
It's kind of weird segmentation, but, given neither has GPS, I wonder how many people who'd seriously consider buying one of these really care about having a compass & barometer. Are those often important features to someone who doesn't care about GPS?
Same here. Based in the EU, I was ready to buy one on day one, but when I saw the prices listed only in USD I had to stop right there. Just the shipping alone would be $25, plus the uncertainty of duty fees. I hope to see an EU store soon — with prices in EUR, low-cost shipping, and all fees already factored in.
International shipments will not be sent from the USA; they'll be shipped directly from Asia. The comment is in reference to your own countries - they may charge tariffs.
I'm super happy about the revival (I backed the first Pebble Kickstarter) and the bullet list of key features you're targeting would make my dream watch, but I hope you take this as constructive criticism that you're way off right now on this one:
- Simple and beautiful design
It's ugly, and the gap with the industrial design of today's watches is wider. I suggest contracting with a good industrial design firm to redesign the case: the case material, screen and internal electronics can remain the same.
I had the same reaction. The Core Time 2 gives Vader vibes. My hope is that the third color will be metallic and will look better. I prefer the rounded edges of the Pebble Time Steel 2. [1]
it's unique, and it's not even that bad. you shouldn't compare this to the apple watches of the world when the screen itself could display 64 colours at best (monochrome at worst). the design language should line in perfectly with those from the pebble os. it's supposed to be quirky, not liking the looks of it just means you're not the target audience.
It's not the worst but the original Pebble Time Steel looks better IMO. I understand why they used a simpler case design (They don't have the resources to make anything like the PTS) but I still like the PTS design more. Maybe someone will come out with a custom case or something idk
I very much disagree. This design gives me old school Casio vibes, and I really, really like it. My father has worn an old model from Casio for decades, and I have a lot of nostalgia around it.
Readit News
Assuming $100 average profit, that's a $2M for 20k watches. Given the work opportunities that the founder and other employees have, that's not a lot of money for them to make in a year, and it comes with significant risk. Basically seems like this is a passion project, for which I am very grateful!
The DHL shipping though I remembered it was $25 and it is still $25 today
Reading through the terms on the shop page, it seems they're preparing to (maybe) raise the prices at any time, and they'll ask you to pay more before shipping, if they end up raising the prices after you buy it.
Deleted Comment
So please have some well deserved praise for your work on this. We have gotten an open source wearable OS, purpose built hardware, R&D, a community, more pressure on Apple to be less of a gatekeeper, and something we can own in a crazy short timeframe. I hope you see this despite it being buried. Thank you, you glorious nerd.
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[1] https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/nRF52840
The nRF52840 is not the most performant, I would've really liked if they had chosen a SoC, like the nRF5340, with more RAM or cores for this reason amongst others.
Side note - I got the first pebble through the kickstarter pre-orders in my first year out of high school. Seeing something so novel was definitely a contributor to me switch from CS to Mech E and working in the consumer electronics space now. Thanks for making cool and interesting things :)
It is fast - but we've done this before (many times) and know what we're doing. I've been blogging about the experience too https://ericmigi.com/blog/february-shenzhen-trip-update
Edit: preordered!
More reliable buttons (up to 30% longer lifetime in testing)
Any chance the particular extra color for the metal one could be an actual metal color? My pebble steel with the metal link band was a great combination of stylish and functional. I never really liked the look of any of the later models so even when I bought them I always went back to my pebble steel. I went ahead and pre-ordered the new metal one and I suppose I’ll go for black if I have to but I really hope you come out with a stainless steel or silver color.
Also what’s the watchband compatibility? Will this work with the original pebble bands or with standard watch bands or something new and proprietary?
It says it works with standard 22mm watchbands, so it seems like you can just put on any 3rd party band you like.
I can't spend $225 right now, and by next month I'm guessing the pre-orders will already have blown way past your production quantity ^^
The comparison chart, under "sensors", doesn't mention the compass under the Core Time 2; does the Core Time 2 drop the compass? A 3D magnetometer seems like a useful sensor for orientation purposes.
Is there a light sensor, to allow automatically disabling the backlight when there's enough ambient light and enabling it when there isn't?
You mention "Standard Pebble charger" for both; I'm guessing that that isn't USB-C?
Any chance to open up support and reparability for old pebbles? For example, run the newly open OS on old hardware or source parts for old pebbles, like batteries for pebble time ;)
Any plans for a more sporty model (i.e., HR, GPS?)?
Core Time 2 has a heart rate monitor!
Core Devices will publish an open source fully featured library, that anyone can use to build an open source companion app as well.
* The originals used Sharp MiP but advertised them as "e-paper" do your new models use MiP LCD (or similar) or actual "e-paper" ie "e-ink" (electrostatic capsules).
* Pebble time round 2?!?!
* The touchscreen - this is an issue I had on my Galaxy watch including the bezel rotating as well. Are there efforts to pevent the touchscreen from inadvertently doing things when I'm resting one arm against the other? For Galaxy watch I had to switch off bezel rotation/touch screen waking the watch & only allow buttons, because it would constantly wake up when I had my arms crossed/resting position.
* The backlight, is it backlit or front-lit? I suppose this more relates to if it's genuine capsule e-paper, then it would be nice to be front-lit.
* No compass or barometer on CT2?
Thank you! <3
In short, I really want to stop giving my money to Garmin. But I don't want to compromise on quality of the data being recorded. What are your thoughts on that market?
One very frustrating concern - the warranty. This is $255+ for a device that is only good for 3 million seconds. Would it be possible to arrange replacement at cost after 2 years?
Deleted Comment
I know I’m not the only one and whatever gaps in applications you have aren’t as large as you think and can be filled in by the large passionate community you have fostered.
(and I wouldn’t worry about other attempts that have come before you. Before Breaking Bad, studios told Vince Gilligan that Weeds already existed.)
Is there an emulator available somewhere where one can start prototyping an app with tap support?
I can still leave my phone at home, and since I don't have a mobile connection on the watch (intentionally), it means I'm truly and fully offline - but I get to keep many features. I can listen to music (direct connection to BT headphones), tick items off the shopping list, pay for stuff, look up my schedule, etc. Some things could work offline where they currently don't (e.g. weather, maps/public transport), but the caching/syncing is overall surprisingly decent.
Unfortunately, it's all using private APIs, no third party watch has the same access, and you can't e.g. pair the AW with an iPad. But otherwise I think it should be the golden standard (perhaps DMA could get Apple to open up the APIs).
Question: does either of the model have NFC capabilities, or is there any plans to add this feature in the future? I am looking specifically for a way to pay contactless with Graphene OS (which does not support NFC payments because Google does not want to).
My only hope is that you can bring the Time Round back in some form: Mine is unfortunately dead, and they're very difficult to purchase even second hand these days! It was the single best smartwatch I've ever owned and used
Will the watch ship with a JTAG clip? Or is that coming later. Not sure if I missed the option in the store
What affect are tariffs having?
Deleted Comment
(I know e-ink displays can have fast refresh rates, like the 60Hz / fps Daylight computer - but that may not be cost effective / battery efficient here?)
https://www.sharpsecd.com/#/memory-in-pixel-lcds-product
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491
Deleted Comment
I would pay an irrational amount of money for a watch that can make calls that has a very long battery life.
The closest thing to what you probably want is the Garmin Forerunner 945 LTE:
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/698632
Discontinued, but young for Garmin devices and still available if you're willing to pay irrational amounts of money. It doesn't make audio calls out, but can receive audio messages (to Bluetooth headphones) and send/receive "emergency" text messages either to the Garmin emergency response center (sends a helicopter to your location, if required) or by SMS with a few canned messages or tediously entered custom messages to to a predefined, pre-approved set of emergency contacts, as described here:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/garmin-forerunner-945-de...
I've done the math and according to my calculations that's approximately 30X more battery life than an Apple Watch. Impressive!
With that battery service the watch should last you about 6-10 years judging by the current status of my Series 4.
Yes, a watch should be able to last a lot longer than that, but I think if you're buying Apple products you already have the expectation of a maximum 10 year lifespan just from software alone with just about the entire product lineup.
I got 8 days out of the PineTime, which was LED (I assume). You couldn't see anything if the display wasn't turned on.
I just bought a BangleJS (quite a bit cheaper than the Core 2 Duo, but no speaker and only one button) and the estimated battery life is a month. It uses a colour LCD, making the display visible whenever there is light. For example, daylight makes the display bright. It has a light source that gets turned on by the button.
The Core 2 Duo has an e-paper display that only draws power when the display changes.
I don't understand how anyone is willing to buy a watch that barely lasts a day.
1: https://ericmigi.com/blog/introducing-two-new-pebbleos-watch...
This thread is full of people complaining how these aren't like their preferred watches, in terms of design, face shape, no GPS, etc.
I think this is a much more valid criticism in that their expensive flagship watch is not like their cheaper watch.
Which is funny to me because that's explicitly the point.
> These watches are not made for everyone. We want to be upfront with you about what to expect.
It's probably the most frustrating part of smartwatches. Everyone has a different list of mandatory features, and few seem to accept that their list isn't universal. Unlike phones where just about all of them have just about all the features, the smartwatch market is a wild west. It makes finding the right one for you a lot of work, and it's understandably disappointing when a watch checks all but one or two of your "must have"s.
The "pebble 2" from the Kickstarter -> "core 2 time" The "pebble 2 time" is nowhere to be found.
(The pebble 2 time was supposed to be the same underlying hardware, but a much classier case, slightly different form factor). They look much more like a normal watch, versus the pebble style feels like a geek toy.
I still get compliments on my pebble time round to this day!
I've been wearing my
But then I've read in the Q&A about the tariffs and how that would affect the price at time of shipment.
This is too much uncertainty for me.
I've got no incentive to buy from the US right now, as a European.
I wish you the best of luck, as you definitely put a lot of love into it
- Simple and beautiful design
It's ugly, and the gap with the industrial design of today's watches is wider. I suggest contracting with a good industrial design firm to redesign the case: the case material, screen and internal electronics can remain the same.
1: https://youtu.be/Pwq89K6RBTI?si=YTQS7wKEajlxpkBe&t=34
Frankly I'd like it if they leaned even harder into hard edges, like octagons over curved bevels.