I wouldn't read too much into the title, the closing parts of the article give a much more balanced take on the whole issue. This study disagrees with some previous work and it's unclear which result makes sense and why. As usual, more research is needed, and while a catchy title is nice, this isn't anything to change your dietary habits by,
What isn't mentioned is that bananas and other potassium-rich foods are alkaline, and so can neutralize stomach acid reflux. Acid reflux is a common source of poor sleep quality. So that could be one explanation for the fewer sleep disturbances.
Reflux is solved by MORE acidity or promotion of stomach acid. Lower stomach acid PH means the LES doesn’t close properly. Seems counter intuitive but took me 8 years of symptoms to discover.
Not every case of reflux is caused by the same things. Some people's esophageal sphincter (such as mine does) just... decides to let go at random times. For me, that I can tell, the frequency of that happening isn't really affected +/- by the PH of my stomach acid, but the PH sure has an effect on the consequences.
I am assuming the best thing I can do for it is lose weight, but that's easier said than done.
I think this is true for a long term solution, but the standard treatment to alleviate symptoms of reflux is to consume antacids, so I think parent's point is still valid.
So hard to teach this to people, even those who've moved past basic understanding. I keep acid/digestive pills near the bedroom in case I have problems with a late meal
Huh. I am admittedly neither a doctor nor chemist, but I was told this by a doctor, and anecdotally bananas seem to help me with reflux. Looking on the web, there does seem to be conflicting advice.
Whenever I see discussions of GERD I like to bring up this paper (and the reedit discussion around it) where they basically tried a supplement with every likely helper and it worked 100% of the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/GERD/comments/adt6vh/regression_of_...
| The aim of this study was to investigate if a dietary supplementation containing: melatonin, l-tryptophan, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, methionine and betaine would help patients with GERD,
| All patients of the group A (100%) reported a complete regression of symptoms after 40 days of treatment. On the other hand, 115 subjects (65.7%) of the omeprazole reported regression of symptoms in the same period
Acid reflux is due to too low stomach acid (too high pH). The lower esophageal sphincter closing as a response to acid (pH) is documented in the literature.
I know this isn't related to potassium directly, but anecdotally I have had success using magnesium supplements for insomnia/improving general sleep quality. I have also been consuming electrolyte mixes containing potassium to help with muscle recovery from training, and have found them to help with physical soreness & general well-being.
I also believe I have an underlying kidney disorder that was causing all sorts of subtle problems and after researching for years decided to try potassium supplements and it relieved the acute symptoms I was having (daytime sleepiness after meals) and also a whole slew of symptoms I didn’t realize I was having (poor workout performance and recovery, constant thirst from sodium/potassium imbalance, heart palpitations, especially at night when lying in bed, temperature regulation when trying to sleep, restless legs at night, and sleep quality).
Sleep was the most surprising. I used to wake at around 3am and just couldn’t get back to sleep. I still wake up to pee, but I get right back to sleep.
The single most surprising thing is the quality of my sleep. I now sleep like a rock. So unbelievably hard. And when I wake I feel so rested and more clear headed. I don’t need to sleep as many hours anymore and feel better than when i would sleep 9 hours.
Recently several sleep studies started talking about how sleep is not a passive activity, but a ‘washing’ of CSF over your brain. I could get some details wrong since I am going off of memory, but I believe the amount of CSF movement and production basically triples when you sleep. I hypothesize that this is simply your bodies way of cleaning the waste products out of your brain. Do you know what precursors are to create CSF? Electrolytes like sodium, potassium, chloride, and bicarbonate. It is my hypothesis that I was ‘using up’ all the potassium available with the first couple of sleep cycles and once it was gone I was unable to effectively create more CSF, rendering my sleep ineffective.
All I need to take is a couple of 99mg tablets right before bed (along with some magnesium chloride) and I sleep like I did when I was 10. I am 57. To say it has transformed my life would be an understatement.
I have every single one of your symptoms and arrived at almost the same conclusion: taking electrolytes tablets intended for workout recovery (just sodium, magnesium and potassium, no sugar) improves alleviates almost all of my symptoms and gives me energy I haven't had since I was 12. I haven't been able to get a doctor to take me seriously for ten years. I will try the potassium + magnesium tablets at night instead of a generic multivitamin. Thank you so much for your comment.
Do you have any additional information about this relationship between CSF and electrolyte deficiency? Do you know anything about possible upstream causes of electrolyte deficiency? Any pointers would be super helpful.
Damn, thanks for your insights. I recently discovered how much better I sleep when fasting. During my fasts I'm taking precise amounts of electrolytes (sodium, magnesium, potassium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy). Being off my fasts I'm getting sloppy with my electrolytes intake and here we are: I'm getting the same symptoms you describe. Not severely, but noticeably.
Now I need to find a proper supplement in Germany. Most electrolytes that also have the recommended amounts of glucose contain artificial sweetener which is a big no-go for daily usage for me.
Thanks for sharing- I find that these type of anecdotes often do work for other people, and are not information people can get from a doctor. I’m going to try what you suggest myself- I also tend to wake up at night and not fall back asleep, with no obvious explanation.
That doesn’t tell you a lot. You would have to take a bath with and without magnesium, and without knowing whether it’s with or without magnesium, and then write down the effect for each bath.
Currently, it could just be the effect of the bath itself or placebo.
If you took a bath in hot water, that has its own effects on the body, as it will lower your blood pressure, it can also relax your muscles, so you need to try it out without the magnesium to see if it did anything.
Depends what you mean by 'general supplement' but a majority of people are deficient in magnesium (~400 mg/d is the recommendation) and its ubiquitous involvement in hundreds of enzyme systems might reasonably indicate that a positive role in normal sleep patterns could be expected as reported in a number of publications. If there is no benefit then other factors are likely to be to the fore.
I experience muscle cramps. (Not restless leg syndrome. It's complicated.)
For others, be aware that magnesium supplements come in many forms. I don't tolerate magnesium citrate, the most common over the counter option. Tummy issues. After trying a handful of options, I chose magnesium glycine; no adverse effects and reasonable price.
This is not medical advice. YMMV. Consult your doctors.
> The sleep disturbances were assessed using the Athens Insomnia Scale [ 19], a self-administered psychometric questionnaire designed to evaluate sleep disorders, particularly insomnia [ 20 ]. It consists of eight items rated on a Likert scale ranging from 0 “no problem at all” to 3 “very severe” [ 20]. The total score ranges from 0 (absence of any sleep-related problems) to 24 (the most severe degree of insomnia). Severity is classified as normal for scores of 3 or less, subclinical insomnia for scores of greater than 3 but less than 6, and clinical insomnia for scores of 6 or more [19,21,22].
The contradiction is more clear when comparing the abstract:
> [...] Results: Multiple regression analyses revealed that individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily potassium intake; potassium at dinner was especially crucial. [...]
and section 3.2:
> 3.2. Association Between AIS Score and Dietary Patterns of Sodium and Potassium
> Multiple regression analysis was conducted to investigate the association between AIS scores and dietary patterns of sodium and potassium intake (Table 3). Total daily potassium intake was inversely associated with log AIS score (β = −0.036; p = 0.034). When intake at each meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks) was analyzed separately, only potassium intake at dinner remained significantly associated with AIS score (β = −0.066; p = 0.003), suggesting that higher potassium intake at dinner may be linked to fewer sleep disturbances. No significant associations were observed for the sodium-to-potassium ratio.
PSA: before you start supplementing potassium (or gorging on bananans or potatoes), please be aware that too moch potassium can lead to heart rhythm disturbances, and that some common medications (like anti-hypertensives) can have further predispose you to developing hyperkalemia.
While true, this is overblown. RDA for potassium intake is 3500-5000mg daily for an adult male. Most people do not get close to this amount. Potassium supplements are 99mg per pill. You have to take a lot of pills to reach that level. Getting too much potassium by eating potassium-rich foods would be difficult without an underlying kidney disorder.
Having said that, don’t be a dumb-a* and take too much of a good thing.
It depends on how you take it. If you chug almost liter of coconut water (like I did) you can get palpitations (like I did). That has >500mg potassium in a form more bioavailable than say a banana or butternut squash.
Also the RDA is not something you should have all at once. That’s a sure way to disrupt your heart.
I knew a guy that would eat a banana per beer. He would portion the bananas out beforehand, so we could tell he was serious when he showed up to a stag-do with two bunches!
Anecdotally, I always had much better sleep and mornings every time I remembered to eat a banana (or two!) before going to bed after a night of heavy drinking...
Two bananas to a potato (I assume we’re talking something like a russet, not a little red potato?) sounds generous to the potato, if we’re talking volume equivalence.
I believe this too! My brother is not a fan bananas and barely registers mosquito bites. Me on the other hand am pursued mercilessly. Could also be we have different blood types but the immediate evidence we've seen is bananas :)
The real shocking information I gained from this paper is that the AIS goes from 0-24 (0 = perfect sleep, 24 = total insomnia) and the study participants had an amazing average AIS score of 4.3 (SD 3.3)! Wow, how well all those people must sleep!
As someone scoring 12, it's pretty bad and I am suffering a lot while trying to sleep and during day time because I did not sleep well.
If my understanding of statistics, standard deviations and the standardized partial regression coefficient are correct, potassium supplementation in the evening only DECREASES this score by about 0.2178 (Beta −0.066, multiplied with SD of 3.3), which is kinda worthless.
It decreases the score. It doesn't increase the score. An increase would be harmful. The beta is negative. The abstract is wrong.
It is not worthless. For good sleep, potassium levels have to be adequate. Once one improves the level, one can move on to other factors.
As for what works for me, avoiding caffeine after 12 pm helps, as does sunlight exposure in the daytime.
With regard to a supplement stack, these help: collagen hydrolysate 12g, magnesium citrate, calcium, B6 as P5P, melatonin 4 mg, L-theanine 100-200 mg, and various sleep promoting herbs.
Ensure your BP is optimal, well below 120/80 for most people under 70.
Uncorrected acid reflux too worsens sleep, but avoiding consumption in the last three hours and also famotidine help.
Readit News
But I already have k-intake.io registered, have hired a CTO for a potassium monitor wearable, app and data pipeline and am working on my pitch deck!
Deleted Comment
I am assuming the best thing I can do for it is lose weight, but that's easier said than done.
I don't think that's correct. Lower stomach acid pH makes the LES close more tightly, with a max around pH==3.
| The aim of this study was to investigate if a dietary supplementation containing: melatonin, l-tryptophan, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, methionine and betaine would help patients with GERD,
| All patients of the group A (100%) reported a complete regression of symptoms after 40 days of treatment. On the other hand, 115 subjects (65.7%) of the omeprazole reported regression of symptoms in the same period
1) Don't drink while eating or exercising, drink 30min before or 2 hours later.
2) Don't lay on your belly while sitting, use your back to support your upper body.
3) Drink just as much water as your body asks, but not more.
4) Right before going to bed, don't drink and try using the bathroom.
I also believe I have an underlying kidney disorder that was causing all sorts of subtle problems and after researching for years decided to try potassium supplements and it relieved the acute symptoms I was having (daytime sleepiness after meals) and also a whole slew of symptoms I didn’t realize I was having (poor workout performance and recovery, constant thirst from sodium/potassium imbalance, heart palpitations, especially at night when lying in bed, temperature regulation when trying to sleep, restless legs at night, and sleep quality).
Sleep was the most surprising. I used to wake at around 3am and just couldn’t get back to sleep. I still wake up to pee, but I get right back to sleep.
The single most surprising thing is the quality of my sleep. I now sleep like a rock. So unbelievably hard. And when I wake I feel so rested and more clear headed. I don’t need to sleep as many hours anymore and feel better than when i would sleep 9 hours.
Recently several sleep studies started talking about how sleep is not a passive activity, but a ‘washing’ of CSF over your brain. I could get some details wrong since I am going off of memory, but I believe the amount of CSF movement and production basically triples when you sleep. I hypothesize that this is simply your bodies way of cleaning the waste products out of your brain. Do you know what precursors are to create CSF? Electrolytes like sodium, potassium, chloride, and bicarbonate. It is my hypothesis that I was ‘using up’ all the potassium available with the first couple of sleep cycles and once it was gone I was unable to effectively create more CSF, rendering my sleep ineffective.
All I need to take is a couple of 99mg tablets right before bed (along with some magnesium chloride) and I sleep like I did when I was 10. I am 57. To say it has transformed my life would be an understatement.
Do you have any additional information about this relationship between CSF and electrolyte deficiency? Do you know anything about possible upstream causes of electrolyte deficiency? Any pointers would be super helpful.
Now I need to find a proper supplement in Germany. Most electrolytes that also have the recommended amounts of glucose contain artificial sweetener which is a big no-go for daily usage for me.
Deleted Comment
Afterwards I got up, went to bed, and slept like an absolute rock.
Currently, it could just be the effect of the bath itself or placebo.
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4397399
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_glycinate
---
Mg also acts on GABAergic/genic systems directly, but its benefits as a general supplement on sleep are disputed.
I experience muscle cramps. (Not restless leg syndrome. It's complicated.)
For others, be aware that magnesium supplements come in many forms. I don't tolerate magnesium citrate, the most common over the counter option. Tummy issues. After trying a handful of options, I chose magnesium glycine; no adverse effects and reasonable price.
This is not medical advice. YMMV. Consult your doctors.
Is this a typo, or something more nefarious?
From the abstract:
From the body of the paper (supported by the results):> The sleep disturbances were assessed using the Athens Insomnia Scale [ 19], a self-administered psychometric questionnaire designed to evaluate sleep disorders, particularly insomnia [ 20 ]. It consists of eight items rated on a Likert scale ranging from 0 “no problem at all” to 3 “very severe” [ 20]. The total score ranges from 0 (absence of any sleep-related problems) to 24 (the most severe degree of insomnia). Severity is classified as normal for scores of 3 or less, subclinical insomnia for scores of greater than 3 but less than 6, and clinical insomnia for scores of 6 or more [19,21,22].
> [...] Results: Multiple regression analyses revealed that individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily potassium intake; potassium at dinner was especially crucial. [...]
and section 3.2:
> 3.2. Association Between AIS Score and Dietary Patterns of Sodium and Potassium > Multiple regression analysis was conducted to investigate the association between AIS scores and dietary patterns of sodium and potassium intake (Table 3). Total daily potassium intake was inversely associated with log AIS score (β = −0.036; p = 0.034). When intake at each meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks) was analyzed separately, only potassium intake at dinner remained significantly associated with AIS score (β = −0.066; p = 0.003), suggesting that higher potassium intake at dinner may be linked to fewer sleep disturbances. No significant associations were observed for the sodium-to-potassium ratio.
Having said that, don’t be a dumb-a* and take too much of a good thing.
Also the RDA is not something you should have all at once. That’s a sure way to disrupt your heart.
For what it’s worth, it’s actually nothing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose
Usually had it with a hot curry at dinner time or dessert (sliced bananas, cubed apples and evaparoted milk.)
The only myth is that bananas are a unique source of potassium. A lot of foods have similar or more amounts of potassium per serving or by weight.
A potato’s a meal. A banana’s a lightish snack.
Learned it from first hand experience.
As someone scoring 12, it's pretty bad and I am suffering a lot while trying to sleep and during day time because I did not sleep well.
If my understanding of statistics, standard deviations and the standardized partial regression coefficient are correct, potassium supplementation in the evening only DECREASES this score by about 0.2178 (Beta −0.066, multiplied with SD of 3.3), which is kinda worthless.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
It is not worthless. For good sleep, potassium levels have to be adequate. Once one improves the level, one can move on to other factors.
As for what works for me, avoiding caffeine after 12 pm helps, as does sunlight exposure in the daytime.
With regard to a supplement stack, these help: collagen hydrolysate 12g, magnesium citrate, calcium, B6 as P5P, melatonin 4 mg, L-theanine 100-200 mg, and various sleep promoting herbs.
Ensure your BP is optimal, well below 120/80 for most people under 70.
Uncorrected acid reflux too worsens sleep, but avoiding consumption in the last three hours and also famotidine help.
Yes DECREASE instead of INCREASE. What I was going for in my head was "improve" I guess. Thanks for pointing that out.
> B6 as P5P
Don't forget it's one of the few nutrients that accumulates and that you can get too much of. It causes nerve damage and mystery sores.
> melatonin 4 mg
That's probably too much:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-...
https://toolonline.net/en/AIS, https://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents...
Re-Balancing One Essential Nutrient to Protect against Stroke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liW9F6gLwgQ