And for what its worth, HuggingFace does not seem to care. The model repo isn't mostly porn like CivitAI, but they seem to be OK with a significant amount of it.
> And for what its worth, HuggingFace does not seem to care.
Almost no one except the payment processors care about porn text/video/images. But once they find out what's hosted on huggingface, they'll be quick to react I'm sure.
Not because they are at the scale of Reddit or Twitter, but they are at the very center of AI World, and it would look really bad to shareholders and the finance crowd if they made a fuss over an AI company.
And HF themself trained an "uncensored" model (Zephyr 7B), and very specifically pointed out that model performance seemed to be better without the alignment.
Reid isn't suggesting porn, the medium, will be left behind (just the opposite, really). She wants to make sure that porn, the people who make up the industry, are able to reap the benefits of AI. She wants to make sure at the very least that some unaffiliated AI project isn't just stealing these people's work, names, likenesses, etc., and selling it.
While I see her point, I think her point will fail.
An avid follower, 'connoisseur' if you prefer, of say Riley Reid may well recognise that she, or parts of her, are not real in whatever they are watching.
But if they do not care but they like what they see they will be back for more.
Her reaction is the same as mainstream actors concerned about voice reproduction, likeness reproduction and more.
One day (famous actor) will die. Later, they will headline a movie that people rave about. They are not dead yet, but ABBA Voyage.
Audrey Hepburn is long dead, but a certain chocolate brand exploits her.
AI will exploit those in entertainment because there is money there.
> She wants to make sure at the very least that some unaffiliated AI project isn't just stealing these people's work, names, likenesses, etc., and selling it.
Sounds like thinly veiled ludditism to me, why would it be necessary for AI porn to steal anybody’s likeness? I’m sure the 100% generated content is fine without any need for that.
It’s hard to drum up any sympathy for such an exploitative industry (exploitative for both the participants and the customers). Am I supposed to care that pornographers ability to profit of their unhealthy and addictive product is in jeopardy?
Porn driving a lot of the things on the Internet (which isn't quite the same sentiment) long predates Avenue Q and almost certainly the Web. There was a fair bit of porn on many BBS systems as well--not video obviously.
A few years ago I was into Eric Weinstein’s content on YouTube. He interviewed Riley Reid, and she is definitely intelligent. It was actually an interesting conversation.
On the broader topic of AI companion chatbots: a bad idea! There are so many opportunities in life to develop real relationships, with real people.
I think I disagree with the sentiment, but I definitely disagree with the conviction.
I think it's possible that chatbots will help people prepare and refine their relationship skills, such that "real" relationships are more likely and more successful. Think of chatbots as simulations, which are used in everything from medical to military to HR contexts. Maybe that's not all bad?
I'm 100% sure chatbots will be used in ways I'd characterize as "not healthy", but I'm not at all sure that's any of my business, or that those to-me negative uses will outweigh more positive usages.
> I think it's possible that chatbots will help people prepare and refine their relationship skills
By practicing with ai porn bots? Created by the advertising (manipulation) tech giants of the future? How skewed and messed up would your norms be after a while?
> chatbots will help people prepare and refine their relationship skills, such that "real" relationships are more likely and more successful
Chatbots miss the point entirely and will only make the loneliness worse.
People who are intolerant of "bad" relationships aren't ready for relationships. Seeing the worst of each other, keeping things honest, and working through it together is the relationship. Doing that with a bot is cheating yourself hard out of life's most important moments.
Forgetting about the technology for a moment, it's already a bad idea to be overexperienced. People get jaded and turn into manipulators. The other problem with experience is that preferences change. The dating market is already bad enough and full of crazy expectations fueled by scammers and the corporate overlords.
Trying to do better and avoid pain just makes you less compatible and is very naive. Training your preferences on bots ensures you will stay alone and addicted.
Genuinely curious, why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? Is a chatbot that talks like a genuinely real person that bad of a thing? (assuming it doesn't tell you go to kill yourself for example)
I do not share that optimism. I see it as far more likely the technology will be demanded and satisfied, that the ai chat bot acommodate immature and depraved maladaptive behaviour patterns, e.g. allowing a sadist by habit and pleasure to indulge in his questionable choices. It's like expecting the car industry to 'teach' people from the midwest to prefer more environmental-friendly pickup trucks. My view is, that the exact opposite will be enabled.
Not everyone can or will develop those relationships though. There are people who have mental or physical limitations that make that difficult or impossible, and companion chat bots could be really helpful to them. It could even give them the tools needed to form “real “relationships down the road.
People say this but i actually don’t think chatbots can provide tools to help form real relationships until they model the kind of behaviors that fundamentally make it hard to form relationships. Chatbots need to be unavailable at inopportune times, have moods that are affected by more than just the person talking to them, take their time in forgiving slights, etc.
Even therapists consider it valuable to therapy that you don’t get to talk to your therapist 24/7. The ability to sit with your issues independently is important— just as important is the ability to not freak out when a friend doesn’t text you back asap.
Those chatbots will only pull them deeper into an isolated bubble with all sorts of distortions manipulable by tech giants. Are we ready to deal with all that?
I don't see how they could be actually helpful except perhaps as a tool used under the care of a therapist. At best, it would be like giving someone a morphine drip for pain rather than doing anything to actually heal the condition causing the pain. It may sound good, but it may also be an active disincentive to addressing their real issue.
>There are so many opportunities in life to develop real relationships, with real people.
To quote the Dude, "That's like, your opinion man". You're painting with a very broad brush based on your experiences and are expecting everyone else to be the same thing as you. This shows a lack of critical thinking on your part.
There's a potential future where these discussions (about whether to work with AI or work against it) will be happening across ALL industries, not just in the x-rated one.
We're seeing it here and in the graphic design industry right now because that's what the large majority of people are using AI for. But just like with photography, and just like with the internet, it's not going to stop there.
In my personal opinion, this wave is coming EVEN IF AI ends up not being as perfect as people are currently envisioning it as. Because even if it's not perfect, it's convenient and that's already been proven thanks to the likes of ChatGPT and Midjourney.
The AI Revolution is here, and, unfortunately, everyone will need to figure out their place in this new world.
> There's a potential future where these discussions (about whether to work with AI or work against it) will be happening across ALL industries, not just in the x-rated one.
Uh, that’s not a potential future, its today. It's happening in tech, today (as mentioned in TFA, that’s part of what got Reid interested), it is a big part of the issues behind the recent SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes in mainstream film/TV. It's happening across a wide range of industries today, not just porn.
I read another article on HN where an illustrator was saying that if the tools evolve to be more designed for artists, they could be great for cutting down time-consuming aspects of illustration. I’m not an illustrator but I’m guessing things like coloring and shading are areas where AI could make quick work.
We saw technological innovations like Disney’s Xerox machine technique that was used for 101 Dalmatians, and of course we saw computer animation basically decimate hand-drawn animation almost entirely. Even in areas where animation is hand drawn, it’s usually done so in a digital workflow.
The people out there that are scared of AI and refuse to use it are making a mistake. It’s here. It’s not going to get less capable, it’s going to keep getting more capable. I think the average person should try to be an early adopter to have an advantage in our new world.
What does it mean to "work with AI" in the context of the future or even near future? A symbolic job of checking it's outputs?
Even if AI doesn't take your job, it almost certainly will take most of the value it has. I don't need a $175k dev when I can use a model and a $60k dev to do the same thing. Or on the graphics side, artists are a dime a dozen, I don't need the cream of the crop if they are just gonna be fixing up mangled AI hands.
> Even if AI doesn't take your job, it almost certainly will take most of the value it has. I don't need a $175k dev when I can use a model and a $60k dev to do the same thing.
Current trends in writing & editing appear to be that you need a rare and expensive person to get the kind of whole-number multiplier out of AI tools that people initially expected. And it's still not a large whole number.
Give the tools to someone who's not got exception taste and skill, and you're lucky if the multiplier's greater than 1 at all.
[EDIT] Exception if your output is expected to be crap and you don't care about accuracy. It's a huge boon to spam of most forms, and astroturfing.
Productivity-increasing tools increase the value of human labor (they don’t take it), but, in a capitalist society, also facilitate the capitalist capturing more of the value of that labor.
> I love the porn industry. I cherish it, it's been so good to me, and I have always tried my hardest to be giving back and seeing what I can do.
I know that a lot, and I mean a lot of people watch porn - yet I don’t know anyone who would describe themselves as “cherishing” the industry for being good to them. Heck, most “performers” say… it’s absolutely merciless to them; because the moment they aren’t in the perfect prime of their lives, they’re done.
It may the case that she has a strong enough personal brand, that her experience has been different than many of the horror stories. An analogy comes to mind of an NFL player vs an NCAA player: in both cases, the career might be short-lived and carry health risks, but the former at least carries more compensation and bargaining power, such that the career might end in comfortable retirement rather than destitution.
And/or: this could simply be the kind of quasi-Stockholm-Syndrome often seen of those in exploitative relationships, be they labor or otherwise.
But while I believe the many disgusting stories we’ve heard about that industry, I’d be hesitant to make assumptions about the motives and experiences of any one individual, in either direction.
Both can be true, and often are. It’s just like normal acting, sports, etc. Its a meat grinder for most but a few actually do win those lotteries and their appreciation of that is completely understandable
Well, there are some teachers who moved into the streaming side of the industry and started earning well over 10x their teacher salaries. And the streaming side is pretty tame compared to the "professional" production side of things.
At the end of the day, there's a lot of money in that profession, and I can certainly see how someone would cherish the money it produced for them. It's far from the only industry which participants will age out of quickly.
My suspicion is that at least some of that revenue is moated by social stigma: that a customer is only partially paying for the service received, and is mostly compensating for impacts to reputation and/or lost income in the future (effectively gating supply and therefore raising price). As such stigmas erode, I suspect we’ll see a reversion to the mean: a small handful of disproportionate successes, and a long-tail of subsistence wages (if not “Walmartification” of sex work). (I’m not taking a stance on whether such stigmas eroding is good or bad.)
While I’m certainly sympathetic to the “sex work is work” perspective, it’s worth considering the full implications: for instance, that there would be nothing stopping sexual services being included in job descriptions for other lines of work (“administrative assistant with benefits”). It’s the thin end of the wedge, to ask how truly “consensual” employment relationships can be, sexual or otherwise, in contexts of power asymmetry.
> Heck, most “performers” say… it’s absolutely merciless to them
Sounds like work in general, really. Most people wills say that their work is merciless, yet the "top 1%" will tell you a completely different story. I expect Reid can be considered a "top 1%"-er.
Be open to the fact that people watch content of sex workers of all ages, genders sizes, and levels of attraction. What is 'prime' for you, might not be someone else's cup of tea.
In addition, she's barely over 30 and a multi-millionaire. It could very well be true that porn has been good to her without it being good for performers overall.
You can also find interviews where she describes the way that porn negatively affected her personal relationships (family, friends, romantic interests).
Instead of scoffing at the idea of it, why not ask questions to better understand _why_ they feel that way?
Why is it that your knee-jerk reaction here is just to discount their opinion entirely in place of your own (likely entirely un-informed) opinion about it?
I wonder what the difference between her chatbot and the chatbot that likely responds to you if you message her on onlyfans is. Probably the same thing. If you want to try a non guardrailed chat AI try Chai, for free. It is pretty good. Even still, I have found with these bots they either get repetitive very fast or will output some nonsensical thing that breaks any immersion.
Fully AI webcam girls are on the horizon, that will completely change the porn industry. These chatbots are just money grabs at horny dudes.
> My dad is a programmer, and he told me recently he’s working with AI because he realized his job is starting to become obsolete—and he will become obsolete if he doesn't know how to work alongside it.
I didn't expect myself to be agreeing with Riley Reid and her dad today.
Readit News
They also seems to be driving "research" in stuff like merging methods, model "grafting," and llm evaluation. Some examples:
https://rentry.co/ayumi_erp_rating
https://huggingface.co/NeverSleep/Mistral-11B-OmniMix-bf16
https://huggingface.co/Sao10K/Euryale-1.3-L2-70B
And for what its worth, HuggingFace does not seem to care. The model repo isn't mostly porn like CivitAI, but they seem to be OK with a significant amount of it.
Almost no one except the payment processors care about porn text/video/images. But once they find out what's hosted on huggingface, they'll be quick to react I'm sure.
Not because they are at the scale of Reddit or Twitter, but they are at the very center of AI World, and it would look really bad to shareholders and the finance crowd if they made a fuss over an AI company.
And HF themself trained an "uncensored" model (Zephyr 7B), and very specifically pointed out that model performance seemed to be better without the alignment.
I recall seeing - many many years ago - a WoW video "The internet is for porn" . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgNOyCnbqg
Then more recently there was the "Pornhub. The biggest archive of nothing" advertising - SFW - https://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-detail/pornhub-...
I cannot see any scenario where porn 'would be left behind'.
Reid isn't suggesting porn, the medium, will be left behind (just the opposite, really). She wants to make sure that porn, the people who make up the industry, are able to reap the benefits of AI. She wants to make sure at the very least that some unaffiliated AI project isn't just stealing these people's work, names, likenesses, etc., and selling it.
While I see her point, I think her point will fail.
An avid follower, 'connoisseur' if you prefer, of say Riley Reid may well recognise that she, or parts of her, are not real in whatever they are watching.
But if they do not care but they like what they see they will be back for more.
Her reaction is the same as mainstream actors concerned about voice reproduction, likeness reproduction and more.
One day (famous actor) will die. Later, they will headline a movie that people rave about. They are not dead yet, but ABBA Voyage.
Audrey Hepburn is long dead, but a certain chocolate brand exploits her.
AI will exploit those in entertainment because there is money there.
Sounds like thinly veiled ludditism to me, why would it be necessary for AI porn to steal anybody’s likeness? I’m sure the 100% generated content is fine without any need for that.
It’s hard to drum up any sympathy for such an exploitative industry (exploitative for both the participants and the customers). Am I supposed to care that pornographers ability to profit of their unhealthy and addictive product is in jeopardy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJRAXjHwnOk
Edit: Seeing sibling replies, I'm glad most people do know.
"I see your kineograph of a galloping horse and raise you this one of a burlesque dancer."
Relevant: <https://np.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bmp1bt/why_im_ro...>
(Context: Retribution Paladin in "classic" (the original release of) World of Warcraft has weak attacks compared to other classes/specs.)
I remember that too… what was it, 15 years ago?
I definitely wasn’t expecting that video to resurface and be actually relevant lol
Deleted Comment
Dead Comment
On the broader topic of AI companion chatbots: a bad idea! There are so many opportunities in life to develop real relationships, with real people.
I think I disagree with the sentiment, but I definitely disagree with the conviction.
I think it's possible that chatbots will help people prepare and refine their relationship skills, such that "real" relationships are more likely and more successful. Think of chatbots as simulations, which are used in everything from medical to military to HR contexts. Maybe that's not all bad?
I'm 100% sure chatbots will be used in ways I'd characterize as "not healthy", but I'm not at all sure that's any of my business, or that those to-me negative uses will outweigh more positive usages.
By practicing with ai porn bots? Created by the advertising (manipulation) tech giants of the future? How skewed and messed up would your norms be after a while?
Chatbots miss the point entirely and will only make the loneliness worse.
People who are intolerant of "bad" relationships aren't ready for relationships. Seeing the worst of each other, keeping things honest, and working through it together is the relationship. Doing that with a bot is cheating yourself hard out of life's most important moments.
Forgetting about the technology for a moment, it's already a bad idea to be overexperienced. People get jaded and turn into manipulators. The other problem with experience is that preferences change. The dating market is already bad enough and full of crazy expectations fueled by scammers and the corporate overlords.
Trying to do better and avoid pain just makes you less compatible and is very naive. Training your preferences on bots ensures you will stay alone and addicted.
Even therapists consider it valuable to therapy that you don’t get to talk to your therapist 24/7. The ability to sit with your issues independently is important— just as important is the ability to not freak out when a friend doesn’t text you back asap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDFzOjw0pFU
To quote the Dude, "That's like, your opinion man". You're painting with a very broad brush based on your experiences and are expecting everyone else to be the same thing as you. This shows a lack of critical thinking on your part.
We're seeing it here and in the graphic design industry right now because that's what the large majority of people are using AI for. But just like with photography, and just like with the internet, it's not going to stop there.
In my personal opinion, this wave is coming EVEN IF AI ends up not being as perfect as people are currently envisioning it as. Because even if it's not perfect, it's convenient and that's already been proven thanks to the likes of ChatGPT and Midjourney.
The AI Revolution is here, and, unfortunately, everyone will need to figure out their place in this new world.
Uh, that’s not a potential future, its today. It's happening in tech, today (as mentioned in TFA, that’s part of what got Reid interested), it is a big part of the issues behind the recent SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes in mainstream film/TV. It's happening across a wide range of industries today, not just porn.
Deleted Comment
We saw technological innovations like Disney’s Xerox machine technique that was used for 101 Dalmatians, and of course we saw computer animation basically decimate hand-drawn animation almost entirely. Even in areas where animation is hand drawn, it’s usually done so in a digital workflow.
The people out there that are scared of AI and refuse to use it are making a mistake. It’s here. It’s not going to get less capable, it’s going to keep getting more capable. I think the average person should try to be an early adopter to have an advantage in our new world.
Deleted Comment
Even if AI doesn't take your job, it almost certainly will take most of the value it has. I don't need a $175k dev when I can use a model and a $60k dev to do the same thing. Or on the graphics side, artists are a dime a dozen, I don't need the cream of the crop if they are just gonna be fixing up mangled AI hands.
Current trends in writing & editing appear to be that you need a rare and expensive person to get the kind of whole-number multiplier out of AI tools that people initially expected. And it's still not a large whole number.
Give the tools to someone who's not got exception taste and skill, and you're lucky if the multiplier's greater than 1 at all.
[EDIT] Exception if your output is expected to be crap and you don't care about accuracy. It's a huge boon to spam of most forms, and astroturfing.
Deleted Comment
I know that a lot, and I mean a lot of people watch porn - yet I don’t know anyone who would describe themselves as “cherishing” the industry for being good to them. Heck, most “performers” say… it’s absolutely merciless to them; because the moment they aren’t in the perfect prime of their lives, they’re done.
And/or: this could simply be the kind of quasi-Stockholm-Syndrome often seen of those in exploitative relationships, be they labor or otherwise.
But while I believe the many disgusting stories we’ve heard about that industry, I’d be hesitant to make assumptions about the motives and experiences of any one individual, in either direction.
At the end of the day, there's a lot of money in that profession, and I can certainly see how someone would cherish the money it produced for them. It's far from the only industry which participants will age out of quickly.
While I’m certainly sympathetic to the “sex work is work” perspective, it’s worth considering the full implications: for instance, that there would be nothing stopping sexual services being included in job descriptions for other lines of work (“administrative assistant with benefits”). It’s the thin end of the wedge, to ask how truly “consensual” employment relationships can be, sexual or otherwise, in contexts of power asymmetry.
Sounds like work in general, really. Most people wills say that their work is merciless, yet the "top 1%" will tell you a completely different story. I expect Reid can be considered a "top 1%"-er.
Why is it that your knee-jerk reaction here is just to discount their opinion entirely in place of your own (likely entirely un-informed) opinion about it?
Twitch-like live streaming with micropayments was first seen in porn.
Subscriptions, micropayments, VR, etc.
Fully AI webcam girls are on the horizon, that will completely change the porn industry. These chatbots are just money grabs at horny dudes.
I didn't expect myself to be agreeing with Riley Reid and her dad today.