“… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket – according to the boy’s father.
That’s all because when he checked in at the ticket counter, the agent saw his North Carolina drivers license, and suspect that the reservation which included a flight from Charlotte to New York was really a throwaway or ‘hidden city’ ticket. In other words, the boy was traveling to Charlotte but had booked a point beyond – in this case, New York, because it was cheaper. And they had no intention of flying all of the segments they’d booked.”
Interrogated and forced to buy another ticket because he was suspected of using Skiplagged(he was, but there’s no way the agent knew).
Airports are a trip - full of low-barrier to entry jobs with way too much power.
Straight up, whether or not they currently do (I'm not a lawyer), antics like this one by the airline should constitute false imprisonment (or, more likely, some marginally lesser charge) with massive civil penalties (I'm fine with tens of thousands per instance as a gentle place to start). A private corporation's goons interrogating a minor in a security room over the kid using a trick to turn airline pricing tricks against the airline seems excessive. If you don't want your pricing tactics used in a way other than how you designed them, maybe design better pricing tactics that don't gouge customers, but ffs, don't lock a kid in a room over it, you absolute monsters.
I am not American so: is it legal for someone else than the police (and similar governmental agencies) to ask you questions and force tout to go somewhere?
I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it.
In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end).
I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.
maybe they are incentivized via extra money to detect this? or more probable is a simple power trip/revenge by someone that gets yelled at a lot by angry passengers.
> “… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket
I find it staggering a corporation has the ability to detain and interrogate a citizen who bought a product from them and dared to use it. What on earth is going on here.
Imagine if you were at the mall and Apple Store employees tried to drag you into a back room because you bought a laptop from them that they suspect you'll use to try and decrypt things they don't want you to.
Apple could say "if you don't come to the back room, we'll never sell you another Macbook, and we'll delete all of your iCloud stuff right now". Quite a few folks would find that a compelling reason to go have said discussion.
They can't prevent you from leaving, but they can apply consequences if you do.
> I find it staggering a corporation has the ability to detain and interrogate a citizen who bought a product from them and dared to use it.
I’m almost certain he was not detained in a legal sense. It was probably more of a strong suggestion that he should go with them to the security office. Someone with more experience probably could have seen through it and either politely declined to go with them, or if they insist go with them and tell them that he of course intends to travel to New York.
But the whole thing is just coercion. Sounds more like something the mafia would do than an airline. But then again, this is America so maybe the mafia is how airlines got started.
> Plus, you can only book these one way because if you throw away anything other than the last flight in your itinerary the rest of the trip gets cancelled.
I did the round trip once - well 3/4 trip anyway - back when I was a poor student. I woke up really early to board a bus for a 3 hour drive to a faraway city, where I then boarded a plane that less than an hour later had me back in my originating city (the airline's main "hub.") There I changed flights and continued on to my destination. On the return segment days later, however, I left at the midpoint and went home. This cost several hundred dollars less than the more direct alternative.
Airlines tend to overcharge at their hub cities because they face little competition.
I don't see this as a moral quandary either way, it's more like counting cards at Blackjack: the casinos don't want you to do it but it's not illegal, so if you can do it successfully, great. But if you get caught you have to pay the price.
I mean I do feel a little bad in retrospect, there was probably some gate agent announcing "last call for passenger 'zugi'", and then they finally closed the doors and took off. I was sitting at home by then. There are hundreds of reasons why passengers miss flights, so I'm not sure how I'd get "caught".
It never occurred to me that we've been victims of surge pricing long before it became the new hip way to rake in bonus cash thanks to the example of Uber. Air travel has always been this shell game. Travel from point A to point B should be the same, no matter what, no matter when. This would render all of this trouble- the suspicion, the workarounds, the enforcement- moot.
Why should prices be the same? Airlines are private companies in an already heavily regulated industry with thin margins and high operational costs. It may be nice to have something more like public air transit, but we can’t even figure that out consistently for ground travel.
Are you an airline? If not, the benefits to you of set costs should be obvious. Now consider that the vast, vast majority of humanity are not airlines, meaning that the net benefit to humanity would be enormous.
I don't know about being priced the same, but certainly I shouldn't be penalized for _not_ taking an extra seat on another flight, right? The nonsense that makes hidden city viable should be banned.
Everyone has always known that if you buy your tickets in advance, I think 2 weeks was the sweet spot, they were cheaper than buying them day of type of thing. Hell, even buying concert tickets in advance used to offer a slight discount, as the promoter use use the money from pre-sales to pay deposits.
You'd still likely need an auction system on top of fixed A-to-B prices, since first-come-first-serve might not be the most optimal system for holiday travel.
> The passenger has reportedly received a 3 year ban from the airline.
I wouldn't be surprised if some major airlines would have a shared banned passenger database. Something like a no-fly list but for people who broke various fine-print airline rules. He might find himself not being able to fly on any airline for 3 years.
> Plus, you can only book these one way because if you throw away anything other than the last flight in your itinerary the rest of the trip gets cancelled.
Engineer in me twitched.
You can fly any prefix of flights, and drop any suffix. :)
Most airlines are truly awful. It's pushed me towards budget ones for domestic flights (Southwest, Frontier, Spirit, etc) because at least they're upfront with "Yeah, we suck, but we'll charge you half the fare".
Flying internationally, KLM has never done me wrong (I suspect the average Dutch man being 6ft tall helps seat sizing) and I recently had a rather pleasant flight on Turkish Airways.
> Assess the Passenger any amounts owed to UA, including but not limited to for seat blocking, for the actual value of the service or ancillary product, and for the full value of a Ticket, which shall be the difference between the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger’s actual itinerary and the fare actually paid, including after the transportation or service have been provided.
Which at most would entitle them to try to charge him for the difference for the direct flight, but even then (IANAL) seems like there's substantial room for argument, if you tried to push back.
Readit News
That’s all because when he checked in at the ticket counter, the agent saw his North Carolina drivers license, and suspect that the reservation which included a flight from Charlotte to New York was really a throwaway or ‘hidden city’ ticket. In other words, the boy was traveling to Charlotte but had booked a point beyond – in this case, New York, because it was cheaper. And they had no intention of flying all of the segments they’d booked.”
Interrogated and forced to buy another ticket because he was suspected of using Skiplagged(he was, but there’s no way the agent knew).
Airports are a trip - full of low-barrier to entry jobs with way too much power.
Even with a police officer involved.
There are laws about private citizens detaining you (kidnapping laws).
There are laws on how long a police officer can detain you. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-deten...
I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it.
In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end).
I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.
You've never met a peon on a power trip? Have you never interacted with American police?
I find it staggering a corporation has the ability to detain and interrogate a citizen who bought a product from them and dared to use it. What on earth is going on here.
Imagine if you were at the mall and Apple Store employees tried to drag you into a back room because you bought a laptop from them that they suspect you'll use to try and decrypt things they don't want you to.
They can't prevent you from leaving, but they can apply consequences if you do.
I’m almost certain he was not detained in a legal sense. It was probably more of a strong suggestion that he should go with them to the security office. Someone with more experience probably could have seen through it and either politely declined to go with them, or if they insist go with them and tell them that he of course intends to travel to New York.
But the whole thing is just coercion. Sounds more like something the mafia would do than an airline. But then again, this is America so maybe the mafia is how airlines got started.
It doesn't matter if he used skiplagged or not.. using skiplagged to book tickets is not against AA policy.
He was suspected of planning on not using his second leg ticket.
That is to say, the airline punished him before he did anything wrong, which is the part we should be discussing.
I doubt the person cared.
This is probably some quota they have to hit - enforced by the company - not the person power tripping.
They are, of course, not going to go out of your way to remind you of that right when they say "please come with us".
If a non-law officer says “come with me”, you don’t have to, but people do it anyway.
Dead Comment
I did the round trip once - well 3/4 trip anyway - back when I was a poor student. I woke up really early to board a bus for a 3 hour drive to a faraway city, where I then boarded a plane that less than an hour later had me back in my originating city (the airline's main "hub.") There I changed flights and continued on to my destination. On the return segment days later, however, I left at the midpoint and went home. This cost several hundred dollars less than the more direct alternative.
Airlines tend to overcharge at their hub cities because they face little competition.
I don't see this as a moral quandary either way, it's more like counting cards at Blackjack: the casinos don't want you to do it but it's not illegal, so if you can do it successfully, great. But if you get caught you have to pay the price.
The folks that get caught doing this tend to get caught only after doing it repeatedly.
Well, the US seemingly can't.
I wouldn't be surprised if some major airlines would have a shared banned passenger database. Something like a no-fly list but for people who broke various fine-print airline rules. He might find himself not being able to fly on any airline for 3 years.
Engineer in me twitched.
You can fly any prefix of flights, and drop any suffix. :)
Here's United Express for comparison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Express_passenger_...
Lufthansa busted for "losing" checked bags when the checked bags had airtags - the customer told Lufthansa exactly where to look. Lufthansa banned airtags and then reversed course: https://www.macworld.com/article/1347964/lufthansa-airtags-b...
Flying internationally, KLM has never done me wrong (I suspect the average Dutch man being 6ft tall helps seat sizing) and I recently had a rather pleasant flight on Turkish Airways.
United has fined repeat skiplaggers. Lufthansa sued some.
While their Contract of Carriage (https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/contract-of-carriage.html) covers this in Rules 6J and 6K, the closest that they have any means of financial redress is 6.K.5:
> Assess the Passenger any amounts owed to UA, including but not limited to for seat blocking, for the actual value of the service or ancillary product, and for the full value of a Ticket, which shall be the difference between the lowest fare applicable to the Passenger’s actual itinerary and the fare actually paid, including after the transportation or service have been provided.
Which at most would entitle them to try to charge him for the difference for the direct flight, but even then (IANAL) seems like there's substantial room for argument, if you tried to push back.
There should be rules that make it illegal to force contracts where they can charge more for less.
If I want to take the risk of reroutes, or want to cancel midroute in transit, that should me my right. Anything beyond that is ridiculous.