Heat pumps work by using refrigerant and a compressor to move energy against a temperature gradient. If you put 1 kWh of energy into a heat pump, you get 3-5 kWh of heating in your home. But this isn’t breaking the laws of physics because heat pumps don’t make heat, they move it around. The extra 2-4kWh gets absorbed from the outdoors, even when it is cold outside. The low pressure refrigerant in the outdoor heat exchanger is colder than the outdoor air, so it has to absorb energy. After the compressor the refrigerant in the indoor heat exchanger is hotter than the indoor air, and energy flows into your home. This happens in a continuous cycle. A great feature in this system is a reversing valve that allows the flow of refrigerant to be flipped and your heat pump becomes an air conditioner.
There’s a big push to end fossil fuel use in US homes by electrifying all end-uses, and heat pumps are a critical part of this. Space heating is 50% of the average homeowners energy consumption, and makes up 10% of overall US energy use. Recognizing the importance of heat pump adoption, the recently passed Inflation Reduction Act contains $4.3B in heat pump rebates for low and middle income families, and a $2000 tax credit that applies to everyone. Heat pumps can also save homeowners on their monthly utility bills vs. heating with natural gas, propane, fuel oil, and electric resistance. And thanks to the popularity of vapor injection systems, heat pumps now work well even in the cold climates of the Northeast.
Quick technical aside on vapor injection systems - this is an improvement to the basic vapor compression cycle. Gas from the condenser outlet is injected halfway into the compression process. This increases the compressor efficiency, increases the mass flow rate of refrigerant through the compressor, and also lowers the discharge temperature. The result is higher system efficiency, higher heating capacity, and the ability to operate across large temperature gradients (say -15F outside temp to 72F in your home) without exceeding the discharge temperature limit and damaging the compressor.
I’ve spent my career building and designing thermal systems—first in aerospace, then at Tesla working on Model 3 and Semi Truck, and most recently in vertical farming. I got really excited about residential heat pumps when I realized that we’re about to go through a huge transition where the 80M single family homes in the US replace their furnaces with heat pumps.
But the products on the market today have a number of shortcomings. The homeowner experience sucks because the integration of thermostat, heat pump equipment and air quality systems is terrible. Nothing works together well, and the best thermostats are not fully compatible with inverter driven heat pumps. In addition the process of getting a heat pump is painful, including finding a trustworthy contractor, sorting out financing, and wading through rebates. And finally contractors struggle with installs because of the difficulty of properly sizing the system, and understanding if your duct work is compatible with a heat pump
I wanted to approach home heating and cooling from a product design approach, improve the end-to-end experience for homeowners and make a product that was compelling beyond its climate motivations. Electric Air is building a thermostat as well as heat pump equipment (air handler and condenser) and a contractor web-app.
Better air quality is achieved through a thermostat with PM2.5 and CO2 sensors, as well as an air quality module on the air handler that controls HEPA filtration, fresh air intake and modification of the home’s humidity. The thermostat algorithm combines demand-response with weather and time-of-use rate plans to reduce monthly utility bills through pre-cooling and pre-heating. Unlike a Nest or Ecobee, the thermostat will be able to run the heat pump in variable speed mode. A more powerful air handler blower and contractor software enables more ducted installs - no wall units required. The most common heating system in the US is a natural gas furnace connected to ductwork, with the hot air ultimately coming out of vents in each room. This heat pump is a great replacement for the furnace and air conditioner in these ducted systems. The same software used for ducts also helps contractors perform simple load disaggregation (turn a utility bill into a thermal load calculation) to properly size a heat pump system. In addition there’s actually some industrial design going into the outdoor condenser, meaning you don’t have to hide it in an alley. And finally homeowners can purchase this system online. We help with financing and rebates, and connect them with a contractor to do the actual install.
How come no one’s doing this? Heat pump manufacturers are bad at making consumer products like thermostats and the thermostat manufacturers are IOT companies that don’t have the know-how to wade into heat pump equipment manufacture. For heat pump manufacturers, their end customer is largely HVAC contractors, and not homeowners. Also selling direct means disrupting their current distribution strategy which normally involves selling to regional distributors, and sometimes straight to contractors. Getting this right is a big systems integration problem that the current players are ill equipped to handle.
While we don't have any physical prototypes at the moment, we have the industrial design and also largely understand how this will be built. The core technology risk is quite low, it's really about executing the scope well and also finding the right product that homeowners find compelling. I'm working on building traction via preorders (https://electricair.io), and will start building hardware once fundraising is complete, likely in the next few weeks.
What issues have you had with your existing heat and cooling, and do you have any interesting stories around a heat pump install or use? I would love to hear your ideas, experiences, and feedback on any and all of the above!
What do I want from a heat-pump:
I want it to work with a contact-closure (TT/XX) input to call for heat/cooling. Sure, if you have a fancy thermostat that works better, I'm going to read the brochure, but I'm not buying it if I find out it won't work with just a dry contact input.
I want it to use parts that are in stock at my local HVAC supply house. I don't want to be without heat for 3+ days while some obscure custom part is shipped in from someplace across the country.
I want it to have an open interface to extract data (similar to the open interface of a dry-contact closure) about run-time, performance, etc. (I will, however, buy it without this.)
I want it to be sold/serviced by multiple competing suppliers in my area. (This is what ultimately undid the chance to install an A2W heat pump: only one company was in the business of supplying them and they priced it accordingly.)
For a mini-split system, I want to be able to run the refrigerant and condensate lines inside the building so I don't have hideous lineset covers festooning my house.
I'm happy to chat more as a homeowner interested in the space (but with a 6 month old Bosch boiler on the wall and possibly interested in the minisplit for shoulder season heating and summer cooling).
Most of the info about this stuff online is trash because HVAC is the most toxic online community compared to any other contracting profession. One of the reasons highly efficient mini splits haven’t took off in the USA- the self proclaimed experts want to charge $2000 to drill a hole and charge a line set, so most people DIY.
Literally the 'smartest' part of my HVAC system, beyond the thermostat, is the blower fan. It's a variable speed motor and has a speed controller integrated into the motor housing with multiple 'taps' that let you control the fan speed in steps. It's configurable if you have the programming hardware.
> MANUAL CONTROL is intended for testing purposes and emergency operation only.
> I want it to have an open interface to extract data (similar to the open interface of a dry-contact closure) about run-time, performance, etc. (I will, however, buy it without this.)
FWIW, there is a standard called OpenTherm which most off the shelf thermostats support and HVAC systems support. It's a 2-wire serial 2-way protocol, quite simple.
IIRC OpenTherm even has a fallback compatibility mode where closing the loop will enable the system at full power, though I am not sure this will work with heat pumps, as they can both heat and cool.
You could even rig up a Raspberry Pi or equivalent with an OpenTherm interface and attach it to any OpenTherm compatible heater/cooler to control it and read stats.
But... why?
I have my current gas boiler working via an outdoor reset mechanism that provides flow water at 116°F to 135°F via a dry contact closure from the zone relay box. There's no reason for me to believe that Bosch (and others) can create a modulating boiler that works efficiently from just a dry contact closure input from the house (plus a flow temp sensor, a return temp sensor, an outdoor temp sensor, and a programmed reset curve in the heating unit), but that a heat pump would be unable to do the same.
The boiler can modulate up and down based on the delta-T between return and supply and the target supply temp from the outdoor reset. A heat pump could do exactly the same thing (with an inverter drive, it can do it with even more granularity than a multi-stage gas valve affords).
How are you going to build your service network? You say you will "connect them with a contractor to do the actual install." But contractors make their money on equipment sales, not on labor. I bought my residential HVAC system direct from a friend and it took me 3 weeks calling around to find a contractor that would do the install and THAT was only because of the same friend connection.
Who are the decision makers in your target market exactly? Wil Joe Homeowner be deciding? Will you pursue developers who install and build? Are you pursuing multi-family complexes and engineers will be specifying the equipment? Each of these will require you to provide value above and beyond what they are receiving now and it's not clear what your value proposition is.
>> "contractors struggle with installs because of the difficulty of properly sizing the system, and understanding if your duct work is compatible with a heat pump"
What? How could duct work possibly be incompatible with a heat pump? Any forced air system is already ready for hot or cold air. Additionally if you are banking on contractor unfamiliarity or incompetence as part of your business plan, you are in for a rude surprise.
One other headwind is that you're VC funded. No one wants to buy a HVAC unit from a company with a 5-7yr liquidation event timeline. If you do go into any other channel than direct to home owner, no one wants to SELL a unit that may not exist in 7 years. How will support work? What about parts? A well built machine could be in working for 15 years (or longer) and the question everyone has is: will you?
This is meant to be installed by a professional contractor, not the homeowner.
> How are you going to build your service network?
Compensate the contractors fairly and act as lead gen.
> Who are the decision makers in your target market exactly?
Homeowners. Not targeting multiunit residential or new builds, they care less about efficiency because they don't bear the cost of ownership.
> What? How could duct work possibly be incompatible with a heat pump?
A natural gas furnace requires ~150cfm airflow per 10kbtu heat produced, while a heat pump requires 330cfm per 10kbtu. This large mismatch in required airflow means that if you replace a natural gas furnace with a like sized heat pump, you've likely exceeded the ability of the air handler blower. Luckily most natural gas furnaces are grossly oversized for homes. The way you find the right size unit is with our software.
I used to work at a company which makes security and access control systems (swipe cards, electronic locks, etc).
They created a consumer-level system (as opposed to the big Enterprise ones they were known for) and tried to create a distribution model which appears to be how you're thinking about it. The idea was they'd build a network of contractors ("Installers"). Customers would buy direct from the company, who would then forward a request to your local installer (lead gen). The company would cut the installers in for some percentage of the ongoing subscription revenue cost, plus whatever margin they added at install time.
This failed miserably. The company learned within the space of a couple of years, that all the good installers want to build a relationship with (and critically, to bill) the customer, they don't want to be a behind-the-scenes referral on someone else's website. Few signed up, and the ones that did, weren't incentivized to prioritize it highly. They put it lower down on their job lists, which led to customers having to wait a long time and experiencing poor service in some cases. Not great. The company also struggled tremendously to drum up interest. Because security systems (like HVAC) come with maintenance/repairs/etc, the market had evolved into one centered around companies/individuals looking around at their local providers first, picking the "best" one, and then choosing a product based on what the provider was offering or what they recommended, much like you would with a Plumber or Electrician.
Maybe the HVAC industry is sufficiently different from Security and this model might work for you? From what I saw though, there's a lot of overlap there and I'm not optimistic.
After a year or two, the company pivoted to a model where they formed partnerships with contractors/installers and moved away from the direct-to-consumer model. At the time I left, this was proving much more successful of a model. The partnership model involved more revenue share, training, and a bunch of other stuff I wasn't involved in, but critically, it meant that when an end-customer went to their local security system provider and asked them what was good, they'd be highly likely to recommend my ex-company's product. That was the clincher.
I hope that's of some use @cmui
And where are you going to get the contractors? Nobody is going to want to contract with you. HVAC companies go with 1, maybe 2 companies. How are you going to pull them away from Carrier, Lenox, etc who can offer volume discounts or just dump their products into the market and bleed you dry without even noticing the effect on their balance sheet?
How are you going to get the plumbing/heating distributors to supply companies to stock your units and parts? You're going to distribute them yourselves? That's going to be very expensive, slow, and unreliable.
How are you going to guarantee you'll still be around for the lifespan of the unit, to provide parts and technicians who know how to service the units?
Puts envelope with your business plan to forehead
You're going to:
-lock down the protocol between the components so nobody can use standard thermostats
-lock down access to the controller for diagnostics, forcing people to go with you for service
-charge a fee for remote "smart" thermostat features
-justify all this with some hand-wavy nonsense about using ML/AI to maximize energy efficiency or predict when the unit needs service
How close am I?
This quote was obviously to emphasize that HVAC contractors make money from margin on equipment sales and not labor, which (according to OP) means you end up targeting people who either can do it themselves or purchase this before finding out how hard it is to find a certified technician willing to basically waste their time on installing a HVAC system for little profit.
The only way I can see this working is if perhaps Electric Air pays a hefty commission to their HVAC techs as a way to ensure they still profit from their time, which is what I assume OP was trying to find out.
But I would want to install that myself. I do everything in my house myself. Could I order a device from you and at the same time save the compensation that otherwise gets the installer?
How do you arrive at these figures? First, you are stating flow numbers at total energy which does not make sense. Second, airflow requirements at certain power (not energy you cite) come from heat exchanger size and temperature gradient. What are operational parameters of the reference natgas heater?
Let's assume that you mean 10kbtu/h instead of 10kbtu. That is ~3kW. For reference Nibe F730 produces ~5kW at 250M^3/h, i.e. 150 cfm.
> Compensate the contractors fairly and act as lead gen
This will be tough. At least in my geography every decent contractor is busy all the time. Additionally, you'll need to provide enough business to your partners that it's worth the time to deal with. I don't know if that's 1/x install per week or enough to basically have a whole dedicated person. I've tried to outsource something similar (equipment start-up, not install), but my volume was only ~20/year and my guy eventually said it wasn't worth the hassle unless the price was outrageous.
I see a bunch of people dogpiling. I'm skeptical of the distribution approach, but there is space for more heat pump players. Good luck. See you at AHR in Chicago
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This. No competent contractor will install a unit you bought off some website.
That will lead to two possibilities: 1) Homeowners try to install it themselves and screw it up 2) Incompetent contractors install it and screw it up
The result of both is bad word of mouth/press and reputational damage to the brand.
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I do like that it monitors CO2 and offers humidification, but presumably that means that it needs a hookup to a water line for humidification (not that easy since my air handler is in my attic) and a source of fresh air (so presumably a hole in the roof or something to accommodate that).
I'm also curious if the mini-split system on your site would also handle fresh air and humidification. Wouldn't that require each air handler to have access to fresh air and water?
I'm also curious why 18 SEER? Are there diminishing returns above that? I'm in a pretty cold climate so I've been thinking it would be better to get a 20 SEER unit.
My suggestion for your company: Add stoves and hot water heaters to your offering. I'm not going to switch to a heat pump and continue to have natural gas for my stove and hot water heater. If I'm going to put in a heat pump, I'd want to get natural gas out of my place. I don't want to have to get a heat pump from you, then call someone else to deal with my water heater and another person to deal with my stove.
I'm certainly not an expert on this so maybe you'll just say that you're using more reliable equipment than the stuff I've seen, but it seems like something I'm more inclined to go with a local HVAC company than a startup.
If anything, a sweaty startup offering just the install for a nominal fee would do really well here.
USA has heat pumps (the technology) figured out as well.
What the USA does NOT have figured out is how to accomplish trades like HVAC and construction without massive grift.
A single digit percentage of homes globally are using heat pumps, most of the world does not have it figured out. That's specifically why Electric Air exists, they're chasing what is going to be a gigantic market (if it were already such a figured out market they couldn't get funding without a revolutionary 10x approach, YC would have little interest).
> ... where the 80M single family homes in the US replace their furnaces with heat pumps.
Where did they get this statistic? I already have a heat pump and know many that do too. Are we included in this 80M estimate? What about those in the northern half of the US that also need back-up heat for when it is very cold? They aren't going to replace their furnaces with a heat pump. They might add one to their setup but replace, no.
> In addition the process of getting a heat pump is painful, including finding a trustworthy contractor, sorting out financing, and wading through rebates. And finally contractors struggle with installs because of the difficulty of properly sizing the system, and understanding if your duct work is compatible with a heat pump
I don't know the contractors they are talking about, but I literally had to say the words "heat pump" to my local Carrier installer and they did all the rest.
Not all houses are alike, and you'll never know what is inside a wall/attic where a customer wants to install it, or what kind of electrical work will be needed. (might have to run a new 240v line). Dirt work may be required for the exterior condenser.
Is the market niche esthetics? They do look nice - maybe this company is trying to be the Apple of heat pumps? Charge more because of looks?
This is a serious question - where is the innovation?
I'm going to guess there's a very specific target market for this, 'lazy' people with a lot of money who don't really do a lot of research before they buy stuff. They are aware of climate change and the need to reduce emissions and have heard of heat pumps as a solution. They've already installed solar panels through a similar service that made the process seamless. They don't want to spend hours calling contractors, getting estimates and selecting someone who is trustworthy. They've bought the same brand car from the same dealership for the last 40 years or so because it's familiar and has worked every time.
There's a massive group of people in the 50-70 age range who are like this. But there are also plenty young people who are like this. Heck, I almost paid quite a lot more for my bathroom than necessary, because of the convenience of the store also installing the bathroom. This meant no need to find a decent contractor (there are many awful ones over here).
If a company has a website where I can see an estimated price before I call, that's a huge advantage.
I think there's a subcategory of people who would go for this one specifically because it's a SF company, "one of us" kinda thinking. And unawareness of the market and competition where heat pumps are normalized, routine, and don't need the sleek marketing page / YC funding.
Can you get a cheaper install with another plumber? Not necessarily! boxt have massive volume discounts with boiler manufacturers and presumably keep the installation charge reasonable but the plumber gets steady work and doesn't have to manage their client list so it does work pretty well.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FGLMZB8?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=e...
See also: water beds.
If you've installed an airconditioning system which can cool and heat up your home you've installed a heat pump (air/air). They're hardly magic.
If you don't use 24V AC controls i don't think it would take off with any installers and you seriously limit and then hinder yourself needing way more customer support.
What refrigerants are you considering as there is more environmental stuff coming out killing 410A.
You will be competing against installers that can offer 10 year warranties (Bosch, Mitsubishi) without any of the backing of a large company saying parts will still be available and that is a big worry with start ups, at least when nest got bought you can still run systems without the cloud or could swap to any 24V controls system.
I used to be an installer but am out of the trades now and I think you'd kind of off the mark with your shortcomings to the current experience, the biggest issue you're gonna find is duct leakage and contractors skipping out on the testing and then the old vac n run and the new construction builders literally will want whatever is cheapest and gets them through the build fastest (80% gas single stage with a empty coil box is hella common)
I hope you have seen the variety of retro installs that will need to be done as there are still lots of oil burners out there.
Honestly i've almost talked myself into the idea that I should be working on this project. LMAO.
Please tell me you aren't going to rely on internet and at least use local RTD sensors at least.
I'm also interested in this. Specifically, I'm interested in R-744 (CO2) as it has a GWP (global warming potential) of only 1. R-32 (Difluoromethane) has a GWP of 675 while R-410A has a GWP of 2088. Japan has had R-744 heat pumps for years now.
Drawdown lists refrigeration improvements as the single most effective method (we need to do all of them) for combatting climate change.
https://www.drawdown.org/the-book
Refrigerants: this is largely dictated by compressor availability. At this point it looks like R454B is the winner (GWP 467)
You're right about new construction builders wanting whatever is cheapest. They don't bear the cost of ownership, so there's very little incentive to go for efficient equipment. Doing replacements on oil is great! The monthly savings when moving from electric resistance, propane and fuel oil are huge.
Connectivity - system runs fine standalone without any internet connection.
If you decide to get in the heat pump game come say hi at the next AHR expo!
They are generally contractor only as homeowners generally can't DIY the 240v electrical and lineset hookup. What exactly is being improved upon by your startup?
1 - I already have a local contractor and financing shouldn't be a reason it costs more. 2 - This is ~$500 and I already own a air purifier. 3 - This is ~$200 and I already own a thermostat. 4 - I can't speak to the value in this but in my case I don't have central ducts.
As a VC-backed startup, it's worth checking out their business model.
This is a big deal because if you can beat the rates of your competitors and guarantee a quality workmanship, then that takes away the 100+ hours we spend on sourcing quotes and negotiating better prices.
Here’s a story about what happens when you DON’T spend 100+ hours sourcing multiple quotes. You end up with a $36,000 heater + air conditioning unit where the installer caused a leak to occur on on the second floor. We were so desperate for cold air that we didn’t have time to get 20 quotes, but the 5 other quotes we did get ranged from $48k to $64k.
If you can save us that 100+ hours of time and give us a cheaper deal while guaranteeing workmanship, then I’m sold.
We’re getting really really really tired of overly inflated prices and the negotiation process.
> Purchasing experience, we'll connect you with a local contractor, arrange financing and help with rebates.
Hopefully constructive feedback: I replaced 2 of our residential furnaces within the last few years, in two separate transactions with two different vendors. I can say that this pitch doesn't resonate as an improvement because vendors already make this turnkey.
You call a furnace/air conditioning company, they come out and recommend a unit. You sign their financing thing, they come out the next day and install. I interacted with a single primary person (on-site) at each company. Cost aside, it's actually one of the more pleasant buying experiences of any major home improvement.
Finally, I can tell you who installed the ($$$$$) units but I definitely could not tell you who made them. Branding might be tough unless you do the installs yourself.
How would maintenance be handled? There are a large number of contractors in my area that can service the major brands. Would maintenance come from the company itself, or via third party partners? If third parties, what if they prove unreliable? Will there be enough diversity in providers to give me choice?
More importantly, what happens if the startup is acquired or shuts down? This is an expensive kit that, depending on system sizing, costs as much as a car. I need this type of system to work for years, with high availability of parts and labor, and replacement as-required.
Going with a new company in this space seems deeply risky. And yeah, the existing manufacturers don't play super nicely with smarthomes and cloud-based control and whatnot, but it's far from enough of a pain to offset the risk IMO.
Avoid proprietary protocols to communicate between sub-systems as much as possible.
The system should be self contained from the start and must be able to function without a local network & internet.
Do not require internet connectivity, a hub, or some intermediary solution if a third party system (such as Home Assistant) wants to communicate to the system.
My biggest fear is attempt to lock me into an ecosystem that charges me a monthly fee to just exist, while selling data about me. No promise will make this fear go away, as consumers mistreated many many times in the past. Show it through your open design.
Good luck.
> What issues have you had with your existing heat and cooling, and do you have any interesting stories around a heat pump install or use? I would love to hear your ideas, experiences, and feedback on any and all of the above!
Fan motor on compressor broken, company insist everything needs changed. Another similar incident was with a capacitor. Such rip-offs create a disdain in consumer.
In some very cold nights, the heat pump fails to keep the heat and emergency/aux heat kicks in.
This one isn't your fault, but many people aren't going to believe you. What they will hear is "We're not interested in holding people hostage (until we need some of that sweet subscription revenue)". And they'll know that features can be paywalled with a simple firmware update.
Rural users often have limited or no access to Internet service, yet need technology like this to heat and cool their homes.
Pellets being renewable is great, but if the heat pump does just as well, or at least assists, they might get lots of rural bites. I'm excited to see where this goes.
Ugh, this happened to me recently.
“It’s an old system and the replacement parts can’t be found. Have to replace the whole thing. $12k”
After they leave I found a replacement on Amazon and replaced it myself 2 days later in under an hour.
Second - yes, significantly better communication on the website is going to help. Some economic analysis (the section of savings is ambiguous) with specifics, specifics on how it would look with financing, for different house sizes etc would get a lot of people across the hump. It's quite unclear to me if this thing makes sense financially.
Third - nice going, this really is awesome.
The unit linked in the post you're replying to states that it can operate as low as -13F.
You say 5f but I dont see any reference to that on your site.