These are touching portraits of people's backgrounds. However, they are exactly the archetypes I expect in the Venice homeless encampments.
The first person is an addict who chops up stolen bikes. The second person has untreated mental health issues. The third person came to LA with no money or employment because the weather was nicer.
They've all had struggles and we need better support for all of them, but nothing surprising here. It is nice to get a more individualized and personal background on each, it's easy to dehumanize when you're walking by and afraid of who is the 1-in-100 that's dangerous.
exactly. empathy is a wonderful thing to cultivate when designing solutions for obvious problems like homelessness and the community impact it has. But, the fact that homeless people are very real people does not change the fact that their encampments need to be dealt with and the communities around these encampments are suffering very real impacts.
Exactly. I want the support system to be good enough that there are few to no "unluckies" in these encampments. If we make it possible for virtually everyone who wants to get back on their feet to do so, then we can bring on the regulations to keep the streets clear. I'd gladly pay more in taxes if it meant I could eat lunch in my car in peace or go shopping in the bad part of town without getting accosted by some asshole who "just needs gas money to get home" like it's not the third time this week.
Have you ever thought that maybe it’s what you do that causes homelessness? That your protected safe exclusionary and prestigious places cause the problems you don’t want to face? if there was affordable living then there wouldn’t be encampments and if there were affordable places for them to camp in more humane conditions that would work too but we don’t want that - we want our prestigious places..
It's also easy to dehumanize by assuming there are 'archetypes' that can be reasonably applied to people just because they're poor or living on the street.
I lost everything due to Covid in 2020. I have been on and off homeless since. Not able to find affordable or stable housing. I wrote three books, one of which is top ten on Apple Books for "design system", while living in parking lots at the library. I get continually harassed and fired for things I cant help. Americans are cruel to the homeless. Its quite disturbing. I have met so many that quite literally will never get out of their situation. No facilities, no showers. One lost a leg due to infection. Never trust your eyes only and most humans these days dont even use theirs very good.
Our government collects a lot of taxes for helping people like you. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that that’s not working but do you have any insight into why none of the homeless assistance projects aren’t capable of bringing you back to a stable situation?
It's a haphazard, inconsistent, bureaucratic, unkind, demeaning patchwork that isn't funded enough to meet the needs of people left-out in the actual cold. It's not meant to help people improve their situation because it treats people consistently like lazy criminals who don't want help and can't be helped.
- Section 8 housing takes forever.
- Work programs are for menial jobs that don't pay anywhere close to livable wages.
- Cash assistance amounts to $5 per day.
- Food assistance amounts to $7 per day (without a means of refrigeration).
- Medic-aid is barely accepted by any doctors except random ones. Medicare with SSDI takes years to get.
- Make just enough to try to get ahead, then you can't afford medications. Working severely penalizes the destitute into even more impossible situations.
- Everything takes longer and is more difficult and more expensive: laundry, showering, and transportation.
- Social workers don't go outdoors in most of America. They sit at desks, fill out paperwork, and randomly stop benefits based on errors, assumptions, and their lack of communication.
One of the major problems is that inexpensive housing is illegal.
India has slums, and Brazil has favelas. They aren't good but they are better than the street. US used to have rooming houses. Now, if you cant afford an apartment, and can't get an expensive one gifted from the state, you have to live in the street. (Not in your car; that's usually illegal too.)
urban campgrounds. even Rome had showers. people like me. i am a web developer and artist. i never took no help from any of your tax dollars. i paid my way or asked permission. very rarely broke laws. racially discriminated, income discriminated. people like me is part of the problem
If you're an immigrant like me, then a lot of these services are not available to you in the USA. Or, if you do take advantage of any of them you are permanently excluded for applying for citizenship.
Just an offhand comment, but looking through your personal site[1] makes it seems like you're living this amazing life and smashing goals. One of those real "Instagram vs. Reality" contrasts.
A minimum wage job will get you at least $900 a month.
You can get an apartment for $500. Health Insurance is $30, utilities $200. You can get a minimum of $50 per week in food stamps. You will get about $1000 in EITC each year.
That is with bare-bones, $7.25 an hour minimum wage and the lowest level of assistance.
With a tiny bit of advancement you can afford much more.
I know I will get downvoted to shit for this, but I honestly think most Americans have a poor relationship with money.
I grew up poor in Eastern Europe. When I came to the US in one of those work&travel programs, I was shocked people were sooo bad with their finances. I had a lot of financial responsibility because I grew up poor but most people did not have such a thing over there.
I say this without judgement, but it's very possible that the OP isn't able to hold down a job: not through any fault of their own, but because employment is extremely narrow in what it can accommodate. As they clearly state, they're able to get a job but unable to keep one: your suggestion, while probably meant to be helpful, isn't very helpful when the world of employment is out of reach to a lot of people, not because they lack the skills, but because employers don't care to accommodate people.
For what it's worth, I'd be completely incapable of handling a minimum wage job.
I am from Missouri USA and collecting help is frowned upon due to our Libertarian lean. As far as jobs go, whenever I have a project or a job I short term rent or house share. My reporting is that of actual street boot stompin and witnessing. I got accepted to a housing program but got mugged by a hotel and repeats the trauma cycle of abuse.
I agree with you. But I think some people are so sick of hearing about $400k salaries and those people complaining of a pay cut since inflation outpaced their $15k raise in 2022 that they might be "fighting the system" by living in tents next to rich people making $415k.
I wonder if there are some folks within the city council or whatever governmental group that essentially allows people to camp / live in this area that want this to be a public eye sore to get public support to do something about it? Because if you take at face value what these folks say, they like the fact that the location is beautiful and it’s convenient for them in various ways. The same reasons members of the public would also enjoy coming to the same area but are not able to enjoy it because the area is an eye sore / does not feel safe. Caring about the homeless and allowing them to live in a gorgeous public park seems like really the only goal to allow it is to want to generate public discussion since it is so obviously unfair to people who live nearby, people who want to visit it and enjoy it, and businesses in the area that are impacted by the homeless needing bathrooms / leaving trash / causing problems (likely a small minority who cause problems but still the problems do exist let’s be real).
There's really no conspiracy, this is the cheapest thing to do. You kick people out of the parks, they just move around and you still have basically the same problem next week.
In order to permanently get people to leave you need to build semi-permanent camps. But these camps do need to be in somewhat desirable areas because the people in the camps need to live near where they can find work (many don't have cars.) You put them out in the boonies they're just going to come camp in the city because there's no jobs in the boonies and they are mostly normal people who want to find work and not have to camp in tents.
Obtaining land and permitting such camps is hard. The more expensive option is building permanent housing. The most expensive option is prison.
Check out what happened in Austin, TX.
The city government proclaimed the same thing you are saying: there is no way to get rid of homeless so they allowed "city camping" in 2019. By 2020 the city of Austin had encampments under every overpass, in parks and on some major streets.
But a PAC against this has been established and passed a ballot measure in 2021. The city government first ignored it (they've made up a 4-stage plan to implement it where each stage consisted of asking homeless not to camp) but the PAC stuck around and kept engaging the city in the courts and pushing other measures on the ballot. This caused a real fear of losing for the current mayor and city council so suddenly they've found a way to get rid of all the camps.
Where there is a will (to stay in office) there is always a way.
You know what's even more unfair than you having to deal with this "eye sore"? That these people are homeless. Have some empathy. They are people, too.
I'm not sure why criticizing politicians who are weaponizing homeless populations against local residents to sway public opinion is lacking empathy. If anything, it's dignifying them as people who should not be used as pawns for a political agenda.
So invite a homeless person to live in your house with you. I bet you have a spare room or even a couch they could crash on. If everyone who accused people who complain about homeless encampments of lacking empathy did this simple thing, there would be no more homeless encampments.
empathy means realizing that these conditions they live in under the status quo is harmful and does not come from a place of care. I'm sure the people living in the camp think its an eyesore too and would prefer better circumstances than a nylon tent that anyone with bad intentions and a buck knife can break into.
You know what would be great? A park with more bathrooms and safe grills in the same area for people to live in. maybe even areas where it's easy to set up a sleeping arrangement and get a little privacy. Hell, why not add some doors and walls to these little areas, and some indoor plumbing to make it sanitary. you could even go so far as to make part of the park for living, and part of it a shared recreational space for them and members of the community to comingle.
If you like this kind of thing, then you'll love Soft White Underbelly [1][2] which is a collection of hundreds of intimate, colorful and brutal interviews done by Mark Laita with people from Skid Row (and elsewhere.)
Then there's also Invisible People which has been interviewing homeless people for even longer. [3][4][5]
I've been working in Venice Beach for the past 4 years. 2 blocks from that library.
Right across the street, someone camped on the empty lot at the intersection. They chose this spot because of the outlet that powered the christmas lights. Few days later, the whole thing caught on fire, including the tent. Few weeks later, the city cleaned it up and installed plants and a fence so no one could live there. Well, someone moved on the other side of the road and ran a daisy chained outlet that went over the intersection and into the plug... It also caught on fire.
I was there when the police came in the middle of covid and destroyed all the tents and kicked everyone out. It took a long time, but eventually someone installed a single tent by the library. Then someone else joined. Now there is an entire community that lives there.
Venice is the most confusing place in the world, it has million dollar homes with homeless people tents surrounding them. It's really hard to decide what is the right thing to do.
There was a man that slept right in front of the door of our building. Sometimes when I'm leaving work in a hurry, I'd stumble on him. I got used to it and didn't report him or anything. But then, he started pooping on the stairs. As terrible as that is, it's not my building. But, the owners have found a cruel and effective solution. They installed sprinklers on the stairs and in the parking lot.
These stories resonate with me because those are the people I see outside right now. When you struck a conversation, this is what you hear. Someone who has lived a whole life just to end up here. Young men that look like surfers living the life, they are stuck here. Young ladies wearing fancy clothe and make up, but live in a honda fit. You don't need a mental illness to be homeless here. You can't afford anything anyway.
I live in West Los Angeles and have been by this encampment, as well as many others throughout West LA. The article portrays the encampment as some sort of "community" where people who have made a few bad decisions or caught a few bad breaks have come to "get back on their feet".
The reality is this encampment, like many others, is pretty close to hell on earth. It's a site of abject misery, squalor, and violence. People regularly get stabbed, beaten, and raped there. The people in the camp set fires, scream wildly at all hours of the day and night, fight with the fire department, consume hard drugs openly (i.e. meth and fentanyl), and destroy the surrounding environment with an astounding amount of trash and human waste. The park they occupy as well as the nearby library are now unusable by the general public.
The response to these types of articles always reminds me of that video about the purported ex-KGB agent talking about "demoralization"--even when shown "facts" in front of their very eyes, the demoralized are unwilling to believe.
An example of similar journalism--here's a cover story from the Madison, WI local paper "painting a picture" of the "troubled" life of a "local activist" after his arrest went semi-viral a few years ago: https://isthmus.com/news/cover-story/in-his-name/
For some reason, "empathy for the unfortunate" has turned into "a complete inability to prescribe moral judgements against anyone who meets a certain set of criteria".
I'm reminded of the article the Seattle Times did on a local homeless encampment that was in the Ballard Commons park for over a year. They did their best to make it sympathetic to the people living in the park, but it was hard to take it too seriously when the cover picture chosen had a visible crack pipe in it. Even in the linked article, "Coconut" has a crack pipe in his hand.
It's a complex issue, and people tend to talk about different things when discussing the homeless problem. As far as I can tell, there are two groups of people - able people who have been displaced due to financial, medical, job-related reasons and are now homeless, who need social support (in the form of cash) to get out of the poverty hole and not fall back in.
And then there's the second group, for whom living on the streets is preferable to entering shelters or rehab facilities due to a crippling drug dependency. This is the group that makes the headlines, mainly because they're the ones making public spaces unsafe (there's a headline every day about an assault in Seattle where somebody gets attacked unprovoked by someone in this second group of people).
What do you do with the repeat offenders who refuse to go to rehab and stay clean? Public spaces should be usable by all.
Are these profiles or just a reporter transcribing people pitching the best version of themselves? I don't mean any snark, I have a huge amount of sympathy and empathy for the plight of the homeless and more should be done for them, a lot more. However, these 'profiles' seems to smooth out a lot of the complexities involved. To boot, there are only 3 people profiled.
You hit the nail on the head I think. You meet a lot of these types when you spend time doing volunteer work. Eloquent, relatively intelligent, very street smart, and pathologically unable to take accountability for anything in their lives. I suspect it comes from years of taking advantage of the kindness of others, usually due to a history of drug addiction.
I don't mean to paint with broad strokes here: there are many kind, honest homeless people who really just need help finding a way to live. There are also a lot of shucksters who will tell you exactly what you want to hear.
This is the state of reporting (generally speaking) in 2022.
I mean the guy Coconut looks like he's holding a meth pipe - and personally I wouldn't believe a thing he says. Tells you his ex RAN away with the kids, that his daughter wants nothing to do with him along with his sisters who send him money. He also likes to play games where he lies to people and sees what they'll believe. Seems to take zero responsibility and tells grand stories of the things he's done...
Still sad about the others, but yes some actual journalism would be nice!
Readit News
The first person is an addict who chops up stolen bikes. The second person has untreated mental health issues. The third person came to LA with no money or employment because the weather was nicer.
They've all had struggles and we need better support for all of them, but nothing surprising here. It is nice to get a more individualized and personal background on each, it's easy to dehumanize when you're walking by and afraid of who is the 1-in-100 that's dangerous.
Dead Comment
I don't blame people for keeping their distance. "only 1 in 100 is dangerous" is very cold comfort when you encounter hundreds every week.
Forty percent chance of a dangerous encounter/week is too much imho
Dead Comment
Deleted Comment
- Section 8 housing takes forever.
- Work programs are for menial jobs that don't pay anywhere close to livable wages.
- Cash assistance amounts to $5 per day.
- Food assistance amounts to $7 per day (without a means of refrigeration).
- Medic-aid is barely accepted by any doctors except random ones. Medicare with SSDI takes years to get.
- Make just enough to try to get ahead, then you can't afford medications. Working severely penalizes the destitute into even more impossible situations.
- Everything takes longer and is more difficult and more expensive: laundry, showering, and transportation.
- Social workers don't go outdoors in most of America. They sit at desks, fill out paperwork, and randomly stop benefits based on errors, assumptions, and their lack of communication.
India has slums, and Brazil has favelas. They aren't good but they are better than the street. US used to have rooming houses. Now, if you cant afford an apartment, and can't get an expensive one gifted from the state, you have to live in the street. (Not in your car; that's usually illegal too.)
[1]https://rwoodall.com/
A minimum wage job will get you at least $900 a month.
You can get an apartment for $500. Health Insurance is $30, utilities $200. You can get a minimum of $50 per week in food stamps. You will get about $1000 in EITC each year.
That is with bare-bones, $7.25 an hour minimum wage and the lowest level of assistance.
With a tiny bit of advancement you can afford much more.
I grew up poor in Eastern Europe. When I came to the US in one of those work&travel programs, I was shocked people were sooo bad with their finances. I had a lot of financial responsibility because I grew up poor but most people did not have such a thing over there.
For what it's worth, I'd be completely incapable of handling a minimum wage job.
Deleted Comment
In order to permanently get people to leave you need to build semi-permanent camps. But these camps do need to be in somewhat desirable areas because the people in the camps need to live near where they can find work (many don't have cars.) You put them out in the boonies they're just going to come camp in the city because there's no jobs in the boonies and they are mostly normal people who want to find work and not have to camp in tents.
Obtaining land and permitting such camps is hard. The more expensive option is building permanent housing. The most expensive option is prison.
But a PAC against this has been established and passed a ballot measure in 2021. The city government first ignored it (they've made up a 4-stage plan to implement it where each stage consisted of asking homeless not to camp) but the PAC stuck around and kept engaging the city in the courts and pushing other measures on the ballot. This caused a real fear of losing for the current mayor and city council so suddenly they've found a way to get rid of all the camps.
Where there is a will (to stay in office) there is always a way.
Or... housing.
1) How many homeless people are interested in a productive life, with the work/sobriety expectations (and the housing/benefits) that implies?
2) How many of those are actively working towards this goal?
It sure seems to me that there are lots of people who want to live irresponsibly, and prey on our sympathy to facilitate that lifestyle.
Have some empathy please.
Deleted Comment
Then there's also Invisible People which has been interviewing homeless people for even longer. [3][4][5]
1. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCvcd0FYi58LwyTQP9LITpA/vid...
2. https://www.softwhiteunderbelly.com/
3. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople
4. https://invisiblepeople.tv/
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_People_(organization...
>$197.95 a month after 7-day free trial
Holy cr*p! I mean, it's a free market, but that's steep.
Edit: Oh, it's $197.95 on the local currency, thought it was USD. Thanks to others who pointed out it's $10USD.
> $10 a month after 7-day free trial
Right across the street, someone camped on the empty lot at the intersection. They chose this spot because of the outlet that powered the christmas lights. Few days later, the whole thing caught on fire, including the tent. Few weeks later, the city cleaned it up and installed plants and a fence so no one could live there. Well, someone moved on the other side of the road and ran a daisy chained outlet that went over the intersection and into the plug... It also caught on fire.
I was there when the police came in the middle of covid and destroyed all the tents and kicked everyone out. It took a long time, but eventually someone installed a single tent by the library. Then someone else joined. Now there is an entire community that lives there.
Venice is the most confusing place in the world, it has million dollar homes with homeless people tents surrounding them. It's really hard to decide what is the right thing to do.
There was a man that slept right in front of the door of our building. Sometimes when I'm leaving work in a hurry, I'd stumble on him. I got used to it and didn't report him or anything. But then, he started pooping on the stairs. As terrible as that is, it's not my building. But, the owners have found a cruel and effective solution. They installed sprinklers on the stairs and in the parking lot.
These stories resonate with me because those are the people I see outside right now. When you struck a conversation, this is what you hear. Someone who has lived a whole life just to end up here. Young men that look like surfers living the life, they are stuck here. Young ladies wearing fancy clothe and make up, but live in a honda fit. You don't need a mental illness to be homeless here. You can't afford anything anyway.
The reality is this encampment, like many others, is pretty close to hell on earth. It's a site of abject misery, squalor, and violence. People regularly get stabbed, beaten, and raped there. The people in the camp set fires, scream wildly at all hours of the day and night, fight with the fire department, consume hard drugs openly (i.e. meth and fentanyl), and destroy the surrounding environment with an astounding amount of trash and human waste. The park they occupy as well as the nearby library are now unusable by the general public.
An example of similar journalism--here's a cover story from the Madison, WI local paper "painting a picture" of the "troubled" life of a "local activist" after his arrest went semi-viral a few years ago: https://isthmus.com/news/cover-story/in-his-name/
For some reason, "empathy for the unfortunate" has turned into "a complete inability to prescribe moral judgements against anyone who meets a certain set of criteria".
It's a complex issue, and people tend to talk about different things when discussing the homeless problem. As far as I can tell, there are two groups of people - able people who have been displaced due to financial, medical, job-related reasons and are now homeless, who need social support (in the form of cash) to get out of the poverty hole and not fall back in.
And then there's the second group, for whom living on the streets is preferable to entering shelters or rehab facilities due to a crippling drug dependency. This is the group that makes the headlines, mainly because they're the ones making public spaces unsafe (there's a headline every day about an assault in Seattle where somebody gets attacked unprovoked by someone in this second group of people).
What do you do with the repeat offenders who refuse to go to rehab and stay clean? Public spaces should be usable by all.
"Public spaces should be usable by all."
I don't mean to paint with broad strokes here: there are many kind, honest homeless people who really just need help finding a way to live. There are also a lot of shucksters who will tell you exactly what you want to hear.
I mean the guy Coconut looks like he's holding a meth pipe - and personally I wouldn't believe a thing he says. Tells you his ex RAN away with the kids, that his daughter wants nothing to do with him along with his sisters who send him money. He also likes to play games where he lies to people and sees what they'll believe. Seems to take zero responsibility and tells grand stories of the things he's done...
Still sad about the others, but yes some actual journalism would be nice!
> If I had to do it again, I wouldn’t have moved to Texas because things there started taking a turn for the worse.
A few sentences earlier, he said
> After Michelle, I met my second wife, Kristy, in rehab.
I'm not making light of his situation or addiction, but things had taken a turn for the worse long before Texas.
> How do I get money to pay the dues? I build electric bikes and choppers. I get parts from different places.
"Different places." Smoothed-out, indeed. It makes me suspicious of profiles that weren't published.
1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31561597