This looks like a non-hotswappable board with proprietary switches, and it's still tied to Logitech's wireless dongles (which are notoriously bad about both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference).
I mean, I _think_ the switches are proprietary -- the page has no real information about the switches at all, which is a bit like selling a computer by showing you a picture of the case and telling you it has "a CPU".
Hotswappable switch sockets are basically a standard feature in the mechanical keyboard scene these days, with boards that sell for as low as $50-$60 having hotswappable sockets.
I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will bounce off.
Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.
At $150, it's priced above most budget boards (the sort you'd see on /r/budgetkeebs, which is more my wheelhouse anyways), but with none of the selling points of the boards in that range -- and it's getting into the low end of "standard"/"pricier" boards, but again, it can't compete with boards in the $60 range....so why bother?
*EDIT*: I'm seeing a lot of folks responding to this and saying "look, this is exactly what I'm looking for", so...I stand corrected. The above are my own opinions (and as a little bit of a hyper-frugalist sometimes, I'd still recommend shopping around on prices), but they're just that: my opinions. Don't let me make you feel like you're stupid or wrong to like what you like just because it's not what _I_ like! If this is your jam, then I'm stoked for you, and congrats on possibly finding the exact thing you're looking for!
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY. While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.
I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps, boards, firmware and soldering iron.
I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
In that case, I would recommend looking into one of Keychron's low profile options. Firstly, they're about half the price of this Logitech board, depending on the size you choose to go with. Second, there's twice as many configurations to choose from (Full size, TKL, 75%, and 65%). Even further, they have higher quality and a greater variety in choice of switches, regardless if you choose Keychron's own or Gateron switches. They lack 2.4Ghz conncetion, but there is both bluetooth (with up to 3 paired devices) and USB-C wired connection available. While the logitech board does have USB-C charging, it doesn't explictly state that it supports wired use, which is an option I hold in high regard for wireless keyboards. Final bonus with the Keychron boards is not having to use Logitech's software. Personally, I haven't had any issues with their stuff, but I've seen many that have sworn off of Logitech completely due to buggy software. Stepping away from the personal use aspect, that software often adds yet another path for security vulnerablities. [1]
Didn't mean to go off on such a rant, but if helps even one person choose a better board than a Logitech, I'd say it was worth it. As someone who's used a Logitech board daily for 6 years, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - especially for the money.
>If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
In my experience with Logitech switches, you will be disappointed. I own boards with both Romer-G Browns and Blues. I kid you not that I've felt linear switches that had more tactility than either of these switches produce.
I own a DasKeyboard with MX Browns and it's my daily driver at work. I prefer MX Blue switches (or even MX Greens) because I grew up in the old buckling spring era of IBM keyboard dominance (my home keyboard is an old Model M from the late 90s). I would use a clicky keyboard at work, but my coworkers don't like it, so I stick with the browns. I HIGHLY recommend the DasKeyboard. It's hefty, and I installed a custom key set with my preferred key profile and I LOVE it.
> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.
From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.
You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.
I feel that. Not everyone wants to make keyboards a hobby.
What I'll say is: I've had both the MX Keys, and the G915. The MX Keys is the baby brother chicklet version of this one. The G915 is Logitech's gaming-grade low-profile mechanical keyboard, using switches that visually look similar to this one. I've had switch failures on both, within 18 months of (reasonably heavy) use; double typing, missed inputs, etc. The only keyboard I've had fail quicker is the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboards; but I have a half dozen which have lasted significantly longer.
A few other paths I'd recommend which are better:
1. Go to Best Buy. I know, old school. Most have a gaming products isle, with keyboards, and a display area with a bunch of them. Try them all out. Try to find one with standard Cherry switches (most have them nowadays, except Logitech and maybe Razer; and they'll advertise it proudly on the box). They'll have RGB and other nonsense, but they're reasonably price competitive and generally solid keyboards. Corsair makes some good ones; I have a Corsair that sees daily use that's gotta be 4-5 years old now, on Cherry MX Red switches.
2. Something like this: https://kbdfans.com/collections/fully-assembled-keyboard. Pre-assembled DIY. You'll probably end up paying a bit more, and even their pre-assembly DIY configurator is, frankly, daunting. But the only thing to really worry about is selecting the right switch brand for you; and YouTube can help a lot, locating videos of people typing on each switch type. For the totally uninclined: Cherry Reds are the classic novice switch (or Silent Reds if you want really low sound, but the Reds themselves are pretty quiet).
Frankly, to me; this isn't a situation where I will argue "all big box brands suck, don't buy a big box". Some of them are pretty good. But Logitech keyboards have really dropped in quality lately; if you're going to go big box, at least don't go Logitech, please.
I cannot speak for their recent keyswitches, but I bought a Logitech mechanical keyboard a few years back and the switches started failing after a couple of years. Being able to replace keyswitches kept the thing running for a few months longer. Eventually I gave up and replaced the entire keyboard since it became clear this was a design issue rather than a manufacturer defect. Still, the ability to replace a broken keyswitch is a feature when paying anywhere from 5 to 10 times more for a keyboard.
Long story short: that mechanical keyboard was not the modern incarnation the tanks of years gone by. I am using one based upon Cherry switches at the moment. I don't have enough experience to judge the long term outcome, but my initial research suggests a similar outcome. Most of the hype around modern mechanicals seem to focus upon sound and feel (and, more justifiably, the ability to build your own), rather than quality. If that's the case, I feel that the gradual degradation of cheap keyboards is a more desirable outcome.
Why would you buy a wireless keyboard for "daily work" which needs to be "no-fuss"?
You are putting your security at risk (who knows whether the encryption is secure or whether the Logitech drivers are backdoored), as well as your convenience since you'll need to charge it periodically and there's a good chance you'll forget it (or forgot to buy disposable batteries if that's what it uses) and be completely unable to use the keyboard for a while, and it will have more latency and may even fail to work due to interference; on top of that, you'll pay more for these drawbacks.
You should really only buy a wireless keyboard for very specialized needs where you need to move it around while not also moving the PC with it.
I'm by no means a "keyboard person", but I do try to minimize my e-waste and and my costs.
Swappable keys aren't exactly a power-use feature. I remove my keycaps every so often to clean them, and swapping a broken switch is basically as easy using the keycap/switch tool that came with my board. It also means I can do a repair for a couple of dollars over buying a whole board. Not to mention I have a bunch of spare switches that came with my board so I can do a repair in a minute.
I ordered Nuphy Air 75 [1] and am waiting for the delivery. It is a low profile 75% board with 2.4GHz connection plus 3 bluetooth connections and has 3 switch options, all Gateron low profile. Has good online reviews, and for a custom mech board it isn't too expensive either. (Disclaimer: Not associated with them in any other way)
You say the receiver will work with any OS, but is that true for their drivers? It's been a lot of years since I wrote off Logitech, but the reason I did was the lack of Linux support for the mouse I had bought.
It would constantly act like there was dust in the sensor (or so I thought) making erratic movements that could sometimes be reduced with a mouse pad. Finally I did some research and found out that without using their proprietary Windows only driver, the mouse would only operate in the lowest dpi setting.
I immediately drove to the store and bought the cheapest corded Kensington mouse they had, which was like $10 and a 1/10th of what that Logitech piece of shit cost. It was like I had a whole new computer, I spent way too long being idly frustrated with my overpriced mouse.
That was and will remain the last Logitech product I buy
This is also exactly the kind of thing I was looking for and the reason I bought a CODE Keyboard years ago when they came out. I don’t know whether my keys are swappable and I don’t care. I just wanted something to replace my Model M that has super and media keys and a backlight.
> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's perfect for someone who's no-fuss.
Me as well. I usually just go for the cheap $20-$40 keyboard that I know will break after about 12-18 months, and replace it. The only thing that I now pause on is 2.4ghz which REALLY sucks in an apartment. My last 2 wireless keyboards stopped working consistently (due to radio interference from what I can tell) and have been replaced with a second-hand alienware mechanical gaming keyboard.
It is quiet enough that I can type (albeit VERY slowly/softly) while I'm on a call, but nowhere near as quiet as the crappy logitechs I always get.
It never drops off, it feels great to type on. The lighting and everything is configurable, and will even light up the hot keys you need for a specific game!
It's a great experience. I have no interest in a customizable keyboard, I just want one that works.
If you don't try a few switches how do you know you got the best ones for your taste? Some are clicky, some are linear, some have double clicks (both going up and down), some are heavy, others are light.
The caps matter too - full height, half height, flat or with a small depression in the middle, various types of plastic, with painted symbols or injection molded symbols for light transparency.
I hate to just pile onto the other recommendations, but you can get a beautiful ducky with real MX browns for only like $100. They're no-fuss and built great. Probably an extra $20-40 if you want individual RGB lit keys that can do whooshy rainbow effects.
Does "use-it-till-it-dies" mean if a single switch goes bad you'll just buy a whole new keyboard? If so, I recommend not spending so much on a mechanical as the ability to swap individual switches is one of the main things you're paying for.
Logitech is a moribund company dribbling out sadly degraded products. For example, their once-respectable wireless mice are now nearly unusable because 2/3 of scroll-wheel movements are ignored.
You know a peripheral company is dead when, as of last year or so, they still didn't have peripherals with USB-C connectors.
I suspect that "use it 'til it dies" is going to be a lot shorter than you expect, with the new Logitech.
After looking at the product listing, it's pretty clear who it's for. Non-techfolk that want to try out a mechanical keyboard. Or heck the older techies who haven't kept up with stuff, but miss the tactile feel of KBs of the 70s/80s.
Other mechanical keyboards have different switch-types listed, but even as a user of a mech keyboard for a decade now I couldn't tell you which is which without looking it up. Logitech simplified it with "Tactile Quiet", "Linear", and "Clicky". You immediately know which style is for you without having to consult some switch tactile/loudness chart or ask the mechanical keyboard cult for their take. They've lowered the bar of entry into the mechanical keyboard market. Do other companies do the same or go the extra mile to simplify the process? Probably, but it carries a lot more weight when the biggest name in computer peripherals does it.
As for me, I might give it a go eventually. If they take a cue from the MX mouse series with how damn customizable it is binding buttons to actions, then I'll definitely be grabbing it.
If that's actually the case then Logitech made a mistake by not advertising that front and center. Those are solid switches from a well known brand, that's what people want for $150.
> Also Logitech's propertiary dongle is not necessary, it can use Bluetooth.
I tried Logitech G915 TKL keyboard a while back. One of the dealbreakers was that while connected by Bluetooth, you couldn't use any of the _smart_ features of the keyboard like macros or more advanced backlight options. It may be different with this keyboard, but I definitely wouldn't assume that all of the features are available via Bluetooth, sadly
Bluetooth is great, and I use it on two of the three systems I hang my Logitech MX off of, but that dongle works to get the third into the BIOS, which I don't think Bluetooth will get you.
(and I have a mac keyboard stashed in the back of the closet for when I need to boot THAT into recovery mode)
Eh, I really like the Logitech wireless dongle. So much more reliable than Bluetooth and it works on the bios screen as well.
Never really cared about swapping switches much and I want my keyboard to be wireless. I’d consider buying this if I didn’t already own the regular mx keys.
The fact that it IS a dongle is the major disadvantage. Most laptops have only one or two USB-B slots and many are moving towards USB-C for everything. Most also have very functional bluetooth built in. It's just not worth a minor improvement in connection quality (which is debatable, reading these comments) to lose the only slot I have in a laptop. I have to unplug my external keyboard in order to use my headset if I'm not using a dock. This was enough to make me spend my own money to replace the logitech mouse I was issued at work.
I’ve found Bluetooth to be much more reliable in the presence of obstructions and interference. Learned this the hard way when I tried to put a computer behind my TV.
From the looks of the side profile, this is using low profile mechanical switches, which seem uncommon or at the very least not popular in the mech keyboard community.
I don’t think that they’re targeting the same sort of user as the enthusiast board manufacturers do.
I mean the MX Keys is a popular product outside of mech keyboard circles, this may be positioned as an alternative for those users
> From the looks of the side profile, this is using low profile mechanical switches, which seem uncommon or at the very least not popular in the mech keyboard community.
Where are you getting this from? I can count at least 3 people I know using low profiles. Without doing a poll. Some people want that laptop feel in a desktop board.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist? I don't have time to research a keyboard made by some mom and pop keyboard operation when I already know it won't work (easily if at all) with my setup.
With Logitech's unifying receiver, I can have a completely wireless setup with a single keyboard and two mice (two different kinds that I switch between for wrist health and comfort) that I can seamlessly use with my work computer and home computer and the same monitor. So no wires, one monitor, one keyboard and mice setup, and two computers (of different OSs) that I switch between with a simple keyboard shortcut.
I'm not into the mechanical keyboard world because I value ergonomics and silence over nerding out over an overly clacky keyboard, but since this keyboard uses Logitech's unifying receiver, it has value. (Edit: well, it looks like this doesn't use the existing unifying receiver, which is definitely a valid complaint.)
The issues with the unifying receiver and interference are not specific to the receiver. As far as I understand, it's interference from USB 3.x ports that affects any 2.5 GHz wireless receiver.
> Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist?
I think this is a fundamental element of modern 'advertising on social media'. This and 'scarcity' of product 'drops'.
My teenage son was sucked into this nonsense about two+ years ago. The PCBs for the keyboards (purchased from multiple vendors) are terribly-supported Chinese garbage. Official tech support is junk, and if you ask a keyboard community, it's taken as an insult to the community.
And before anyone says, "bad assembly" -- my son is certified from a three-day long Haako micro-soldering course, so he knows how to solder.
I've used Logitech peripherals all my life and I stand by them. Specific to the keyboard, here's my experience of switching over to mechanical. I asked around, and people did recommend building my own, which I was cool with, but my needs were pretty specific and informed by my old keyboard (that I had used for 10+ years and had gotten accustomed to). I wanted a very specific layout: US International, the ISO variant (with the square(ish) Enter), but the 104-key, without the extra key next to the left Shift. It's not very common, but it's the one I use, and not many manufacturers use it (especially custom mechanical boards). I also wanted media keys and some programmable keys for macros.
After looking around for a while, I mostly found 10-key-less custom boards, very few full keyboards and none were the exact layout I wanted (they were either ANSI with the small Enter, which I hate, or 105-key ISO, which I would have also hated). Not to mention lacking media keys and/or programmable keys. Then I found my current keyboard. The Logitech G915 Lightspeed.
It is EXACTLY what I wanted. Has the correct layout, has media keys, has programmable keys, it's dual wireless (Bluetooth and their Lightspeed connector, which is definitely more reliable than Bluetooth, I have to tell you; also it works before booting into Windows, which Bluetooth does not, so I don't have to use a different keyboard for BIOS), the battery lasts FOREVER (3-4 weeks, including me turning on the lighting at night) and is replaceable. It uses Kailh Low-profile switches, which although uncommon, can be found online, and, while not hotswappable, can be replaced in the event of failure.
The MRSP is 250 EUR, I got it for 150 new, which is a steal. With that money I basically bought myself a keyboard which I can conceivably use for the next 20 years, no problem (factoring in inevitable key repairs and battery replacement(s), of course).
Don't know about you, but I'm happy with my choice and purchase and would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone. In fact, after using it for a while, I also purchased the G502 Wireless mouse, which I also love.
So, yeah, for some people, Logitech peripherals are exactly what they need.
Holy effin' moly I am not alone... square Enter, no stupid shift slashes placement. It took me forever to find something (actually didn't - Roccat I have have this idiotic tiny Enter, but good volume control knob which is super useful too), and I don't even want bluetooth since I never move it around.
Logitech G915 looks great if it just used the cable, it seems to have volume knob/roller too. Too bad there isn't wired cheaper equivalent, at least I don't see any.
The MX Master 3 mouse is far and away the best mouse I've ever used. It switches easily between computers, feels great, has great functionality and most importantly, doesn't leave my wrist hurting at the end of the day (which I what brought me to try it out in the first place).
Yes, I can look into other options, but this is targeting people like me, who are already in the logitech ecosystem and are happy there. I can try my luck with another brand that I may or may not like more, or I can go with this and hope that it's of similar quality to other devices in the MX sub-brand.
Man if you like the MX Master 3 you would have loved the original Performance MX. They've made this mouse worse with every iteration. The first one was frickin awesome but when it eventually wore out I've slowly iterated through the MX Master series (1, 2 and 3 now). Honestly if I could get the hyperscroll on someone elses wired mouse (Mionix Noas Pro w/ hyperscroll wheel would be a dream) I would jump in a heartbeat but I just can't quit that damned scroll wheel.
Unlike their fantastic pointing devices, the keyboards are always lacking some killer feature. MX Ergo, MX Master, MX Anywhere, MX Vertical all have something that basically no other brand offers.
What have the MX keyboards offered? This is a generic mech, another one had a scroll wheel... where's the no fuss tenting split with thumb features beating function and price point of the an Ergodox or Keyboardio?
> someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
honestly I was into mechanical keyboards for a while, I put together a few kits, I bought into group buys on individual hand-crafted keys, group buys on keysets, and bought a HHKB to try topre switches. After a while I just stopped, because the scene is incredibly disorganized and constantly shifting (e.g., I was into mechanical keyboards for a year or two and /r/budgetkeebs didn't even exist, but lots of my friends still know me as the keyboard enthusiast guy so they always ask me where to get a keyboard). The barrier to entry is very substantial. There are a lot of people who would like a nicer keyboard who don't want to have to deal with that nonsense.
Take that whole concept, and now think about webcams. People have money to burn and spent a lot of time on video chat because of Covid. How many people sat around and did hours and hours of research to buy the perfect webcam? How many people heard the Logitech 1080p webcam (the C920x I think?) was pretty good, bought it, plugged it in, had a good product and literally never thought about it again? I'm willing to bet that second group is easily ten times as large as the first group. And alllllllll those people see "Logitech" and all they think is "it's a peripheral that will probably work well that I don't have to think about". That's an enormous market.
anyway I can't figure out if the MX means the switches have Cherry MX stems or not, which is annoying. Not something I would buy, but definitely a frustratingly underserved market segment.
> tied to Logitech's wireless dongles (which are notoriously bad about both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference).
I have the opposite experience across probably half a dozen Logitech devices over the last decade or so. The dongle is so much more reliable and far lower latency than bluetooth. I'd take Logitech unified receiver over bluetooth all day long. I haven't had nearly as much luck with other 2.4Ghz receivers. I'm also using a RK Royal Kludge wireless keyboard and it's very particular about where the receiver is plugged in and distance from the keyboard.
I have had issues with the unifying receiver when I've plugged it into the back of a PC in the midst of a tangle of wires, but generally it's more reliable and lower latency than bluetooth
Mechanical keyboards are filtering down into corporate IT purchasing after they've entered the consumer mainstream (gaming keyboards and the like), particularly in smaller / "hip" companies that decide to buy smaller amounts of premium hardware instead of trying to shave pennies off unit costs in volume (Fortune 500 etc.). Logitech's retail reach makes this a much simpler decision for those purchasing agents, who will likely be able to purchase these through pre-existing channels, compared to smaller outlets offering specialized keyboards.
Logitech Unifying Receiver is basically rebranded, slightly-tweaked bluetooth from what I can tell. I've had a lot of them running in the same room together and not had a problem.
I have a ridiculously priced Topre Realforce, but when friends and family ask for a recommendation or I'm helping them setup a machine I would definitely recommend something like this if they're up for spending a little more. Historically I've been recommending the Logitech K840 in those scenarios. This looks like a wireless upgrade to that.
> the page has no real information about the switches at all
It looks like it's their short travel switches, which are found on the G915. I own, but do not use (on account of my newer custom keeb), a G915. The switches are a noticeable step above stock Cherrys, with significantly less scratchiness (that probably has to do with the short travel), but obviously pale in comparison to "the rest." The G915 also has really solid build quality, although I'm not sure if that translates to this model.
Despite my positive comments about the keyboard family, I strongly recommend looking into a custom keyboard because you'll find a much closer match, for what you're looking for, than what OEM keyboards will ever yield. You can get a GMMK 2, with lubed switches, for $149 [1] (then spend another $20 on cheap keycaps on Amazon). The switches are hot-swappable, so you will get many years of use from it. GMMK 2 is extremely entry-level, but will blow almost any OEM keyboard clear out of the water (including this one).
You can also get keyboard switch samplers to help you choose which switch works best for you.
Glad to hear the r/mk opinion on this. I've been a diehard for Logitech multi-device peripherals since I picked up a Triathlon mouse on sale in 2018 and I just got myself an MX Mini keyboard. For folks who frequently switch between devices it's a godsend. I was glad to see it in mechanical form, but I can't understand why they wouldn't do their due diligence on mechanical keyboard users and their needs.
Switches are probably either cherry's low profile switch, or Kailh's version 2 of it's choc low profile switch.
I honestly have no idea why this was posted on HN, there's a ton of other keyboards that have the same specs and features. Sure it's got Logitech's priority dongle, but as you point out, what's here that's not on a 70 dollar gk65.
I think it was posted more as an interesting industry trend. It's acknowledgement of a former niche turning into a real industry from the big name in the space.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
I like mechanical keyboards but I just don't care. What research do I possibly need to do?
I'm not sure if you know this -- I certainly didn't until recently -- but the mechanical keyboard community uses the term "hot-swappable" to mean "user-swappable". They may well also be hot-swappable, as in changeable while powered on, but that's not the intention of the term.
> Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will bounce off.
> Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.
If you find yourself in this bucket, check out Keychron. They make mechanical and optical hot swappable keyboards that are amazingly durable, multi-device, multi-platform, and cheap. The only bother you (sometimes) have to put up with is batch ordering.
I've scratch-built keyboards from disparate parts. I've put kits together. I've flashed keyboard firmware. I know how to solder and de-solder.
I'm not super plugged-in to the community but I do consider myself an enthusiast.
I don't care about hot swappable keys; soldering is easy enough. I don't really care who makes the switches as long as they feel good enough. I would prefer standard stems but I know I'm not really likely to swap any keycaps.
I'll probably buy one of these when I get sick of my current work keyboard's lack of a numpad.
> notoriously bad about both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference
Can someone speak to this?
I'm asking because I have a Nintendo Switch and I play games with split Joy Cons in docked mode, my right cons have been absurdly unreliable and I'm trying to understand the reason. I've had 4 pairs but they all suffer and the left never does. The console is to my left and my laptop with the Logitech dongle is to my right so I wonder if that has something to do with it. Turning off my mouse seems to help but maybe I should be removing the dongle too...
It looks like they are just using low-profile mx switches. These are not proprietary, just uncommon.
It is annoying that seemingly nobody in the entirety of Logitech could be bothered to spend 3 minutes scrolling /r/mechanicalkeyboards to see how mkb customers describe their own keyboard and realize that they should put the proper switch name directly in the product description... but that is more or less what I have come to expect from a BigCorp.
>This looks like a non-hotswappable board with proprietary switches, and it's still tied to Logitech's wireless dongles (which are notoriously bad about both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference).
I like my logitech mouse, but for the desktop I built, I had to buy and extension USB cable to keep the dongle far enough away from the machine to get the mouse to work without glitching.
I'm 99% sure this is just they're G915 wireless keyboard, just without a volume wheel and the aesthetics appealing to the gamer crowd. Also have you have a poor experience withe the 2.4ghz tech they label as "lightspeed"? I use it right next to a wifi router and I haven't noticed any issues.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
I agree. For this price you could buy a great keyboard from Vortex with swap able keys .. which click the way you like it.
My cheap Epomaker TH80 was $80 when I bought it, and supports USB-C, up to 3 bluetooth devices, _and_ a 2.4Ghz dongle connection. There are other reasons it might not be for everyone, but it's got a 2.4Ghz dongle, and those are actually pretty common in even the lower end of the mechanical keyboard market these days.
I have a CIY Tester68 which comes with a 2.4GHz receiver, and also features Bluetooth 5.0. The hot-swappable board (no switches and keycaps) cost under $15 and powered by 2 x AAA.
Dierya makes an assortment of multi-device (switch devices via a key combo) BT keyboards that are pretty close to your price range. The DK63 was my first mechanical when I fell ass backwards into the hobby.
> the page has no real information about the switches at all
It does, though. They are all MX switches, and they have 3 different ones: tactile silent, clicky, and linear. Each one of them has a short basic description.
Reading the engadget review[0] of it, it seems like the naming was fairly accurate. The author points out that "linear" is an equivalent of MX Red, and "clicky" is an equivalent of MX Blue. The "tactile silent" switches weren't explicitly called out in the review, but it sounds like they would be the closest to MX Brown.
I want a mechanical keyboard with a unifying dongle. I have three laptops I switch between. I can plug the dongle into my monitor or dock and I never have to worry about switching inputs.
MX is a type of switch, so from the name, I'm guessing it uses MX style switches (the most popular style of switch). Specifically MX describes the shape of the connectors on the switch. This means the keyboard will be compatible with aftermarket key caps, which are very popular.
EDIT: While the switches do look like MX switches to me, Logitech is also using MX as branding to describe mice, non-mech keyboards etc. This is confusing for someone who knows mechanical keyboards.
This is a known business idea right? Offer a watered down version of something that is cool but also uncertain, with the reassurance of a brand name so you know you’ll at least not regret it. Like Starbucks.
“No one ever got fired for buying IBM/Microsoft/<insert here>”
Logitech is no longer the great company it used to be, so I have decided to no longer purchase their products. I purchased a G Pro X Wireless Headset less than 2 years ago, and I'm already on my second warrranty replacement (3 total headsets.) Multiple parts on it seem designed to fail, and all of mine have failed in the same way. They use laughably small screws to connect the band to the arms that hold the earcups and they just snap after a few months. It's very sad to see so much e-waste created just to increase profits by a few cents per unit.
I've been using wired mechanical keyboards for about 15 years so I can't recommend a wireless model, but Ducky makes great, reliable, entry-level mechanical keyboards. I've mostly used Ducky and I've never had one of their keyboards fail in any way. Glorious also makes great keyboards, but based on my perception of the build quality, I have a feeling their cheaper keyboards might not last as long. I'm currently using a Glorious GMMK Pro and it feels very solid.
It feels weird to me, to judge a keyboard company by their headset. Those have always had fragile plastic hinges with the earcups falling off, that is not a new development. Their mice and keyboards are pretty good, and the G Pro Wireless is one of the best in the game right now.
They're mostly a computer peripheral company. They've always made a ton of products like keyboards, mice, webcams, speakers, headsets, microphones, game controllers, etc. I've only experienced issues with fragile plastic parts in sub $80 headsets. You definitely shouldn't be seeing such a critical design flaw on a $200 headset.
The quality of their products used to be pretty good, but it's becomming obvious that they're starting to cut too many corners to reduce costs. I have an old pair of logitech speakers that have lasted me well over 10 years.
The G Pro Wireless has some major issues as well. They build up static electricity during use and this causes a single click to register as multiple clicks, and causes a continuous click to stop registering when you're holding the button down. This is terrible for a gaming mouse. I switched to a Razer Viper Ultimate and haven't had any issues.
I've never seen a "gaming" headset that is any good.
You will always be better off buying headsets from companies that focus on headsets and headphones, rather than from companies that see headsets as a cheap filler item to sell to people who bought their mice and keyboards and want the blinky lights to sync up.
My SteelSeries Arctis 7 headset is awesome. Battery lasts all day, sound quality isnt terrible, no lights other than the microphone mute. USB interface, it presents a "game" and "voice" output to the system and you can control the volume for each with a wheel on the headset.
For wireless, Bluetooth Headset profile (for bidirectional audio, so mic) only supports mono audio, and at pretty low bitrate too. For me that makes it completely unusable in gaming, where I want both mic, and stereo (positional) audio.
For wired headsets I would probably stay away from "gaming" products indeed, but it was surprisingly difficult to find a good wireless one.
At the risk of turning this into a product recommendation thread, I am very happy with my Astro A50. Hits all the right notes for a wireless headset to wear all day at home - from video chats over coding and gaming to laundry. Doesn't even have blinky lights.
It's a hit or miss. They have the fantastic MX Master line of mouse products, for example, or some very good webcams, but not everything is so great, like your headsets. I prefer to check the product more than the company.
JBL bluetooth headphones have "firmware feature" which lowers volume of left earpiece slowly over time.
Happened on multiple different products, bought by schoolmates of mine and also on 3 different units of one product for me.
Pioneer SE-M531, M521 .... have similar problem with screws as you state.
logitech - i absolutely LOVE MX series of products they are innovative and provide absolutelly best functionality, keys look nice not really my style but they look nice as a unit.
so i am sad to see they jumped on mechanical keyboard bandwagon, i hate mechanical keyboards with all my life. always clicking, long travel, slow typing....
long travel, slow? this keyboard looks low profile. probably don't have to press the keys as far. and the amount of force required to activate the key is less than non mechanical iirc. they usually tell you how many grams of force are needed
Very weird, I've had the opposite experience. I used to think their hardware products were complete crap, but now I own a G Pro mouse, keyboard, and headset from them (they've definitely stepped it up in the design game at the very least.)
Changed my headset to the G Pro X Wireless after having broken 2 SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless headsets, which for some reason decided to use a single plastic piece for the hinge to hold the earcups on (on a $350 headset!).
I have a love/hate relationship with the G Pro X Wireless. I've bought 6 of them so far, 3 of which have died in some way (in all cases, the right or left click has stopped functioning). They're fantastic in every other way - I love the feel, the response time is great, the weight is great. I'll continue buying them for those reasons, at least until a competitor has all of the above plus my following wishlist:
Better build quality (a mouse should last more than 1-2 years, which is the average life I get out of them).
USB-C receiver. I hate having to use a dongle just for the USB-A receiver.
The G Pro X Wireless felt awesome and first and seemed like a great headset, but my mind changed when I ran into issues and saw how many others had issues as well. If they made it a bit more durable I would say it would be almost perfect.
I had an SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless as well before the Logitech one, and I ran into the same issue! Huge disappointment after having loved the SteelSeries Siberia wired headset
Also, their switches aren't hot swappable so if one stops working (or even becomes just a bit finicky) consumers are likely to throw the whole thing out.
Note that this appears to use the Logi Bolt receiver, not the typical Unifying receiver - so you might end up with 2 dongles (a unifying and a bolt)
Be aware that Logitech now has 3 wireless technologies:
Unifying - the original 2.4 wireless, supports up to 6 devices. Symbol - Orange square with black or white six-pointed snowflake
Logi Bolt - the new encrypted version of their unifying controller, also supports up to 6 devices, uses Bluetooth Low Energy and FIPS. It is a new dongle. Symbol - Yellow hexagon with black bolt
LightSpeed Wireless - high performance low latency wireless for gaming, supports only one device per dongle, uses much more energy.
Available USB ports on laptops can become an issue if you mix them, happened to me!
For anyone thinking of using this with Linux, there are a couple of issues I've encountered with Logi Bolt with my MX Keys Mini.
Getting the keyboard and a Logi Bolt USB receiver to pair on Linux was a huge PITA. (Why do I have to trust and install an app for this anyway?) In the end I resorted to plugging the receiver into a mac and pairing it that way. Even that hasn't worked out so well though, since I ended up with messed up modifier keys when I transferred the receiver back to a Linux machine (the modifier keys are still mapped as a mac keyboard).
Another issue I have is that I can't suspend the Linux machine if I leave the USB receiver plugged in. If I do, the machine will wake back up almost immediately after suspending. Kinda annoying to have to always unplug it...especially since if you buying a Logi Bolt device it's probably because you want to be able to switch it between multiple machines without having to constantly plug/unplug thing to USB...
In case you still use the keyboard, you may be able to solve the wakeup issue by preventing the wakeup in /proc/acpi/wakeup - see (1). When I used a Surface Go 2, this was how I prevented the keyboard case from waking it up and draining the battery.
I really wish their LightSpeed devices also supported bluetooth. If I take my mouse with me on the road it's really annoying having to bring a dongle and the adapter.
I use a G603 LightSpeed which also supports operation via Bluetooth. It actually ends up being pretty handy, as I can switch the mouse between my desktop and laptop just by pressing a button.
Beware though, that they have an issue with scroll wheels breaking after several months of use (a plastic axle connecting the wheel to the rotary encoder breaks off). After mine broke the second time after warranty repair, ended up ordering a replacement part myself and also modded the scrolling mechanism to have less resistance.
> [^11] Not compatible with Logitech Unifying USB Receiver technology
So you'll have to throw away your existing MX Anywhere 3 and repurchase this seemingly vaporware "for Business" variant[1] if you want a single transceiver for mouse+keyboard? Hmm...
The decision to go from Unifying to Bolt is mystifying to me, since there's seemingly no user-facing benefit. It makes upgrading less enticing -- they should have either rolled out a new set of peripherals that all supported Bolt at the same time, or they should have rolled out an interim generation that supported both Bolt and Unifying.
Isn't the Unifying encryption broken beyond recovery or something? Either way, more secure connections for something as critical as input data are very welcome IMHO.
That being said, for office work I'm satisfied with Bluetooth. No extra dongles is a huge plus, too.
At first look, the Bolt stuff is supposed to be more secure, with better encryption or the data transferred and maybe with narrower band to allow more concurrent users in high density offices. I don't know how much it is correct and how much it is marketing, this is what I read.
I bet this is why the release a MX Master 3S as an minor update to the previous MX Master 3.. that only have bolt option..
I still have an MX Master 2 and i am considering getting this as a bundle, MX Master 3S and MX Mechanical..
For keyboard i currently have their G512 gamer and it bother me that it use a separated software from the MX Master 2, the keyboard use the Logitech G Hub while the mouse use the Logitech Options..
Can someone explain to me the attraction of wireless keyboards? I get wireless mice: they're much easier to reposition - but my keyboard stays in one place all the time. Do other people move their keyboards repeatedly?
I'm familiar with the use case for this. I don't want to use the same keyboard for work (typing) all day that I'd use for gaming after work. I also don't want TWO wired keyboards. So if I can have a wireless gaming keyboard that I set off out of the way during work, and then can push my main keyboard (wired ergonomic membrane) out of the way and use the gaming keyboard (wireless mechanical), I have the ideal input device for each use case.
(If the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard came in wireless, I'd get one - one less wire making it sub-optimal when I'm ready to swap keyboards.)
1) I switch between a mac (work) and windows (leisure/gaming) and thus switch between a mac wireless keyboard and a mechanical windows one. I move one to the side so the desk doesn't get cluttered.
2) Desktop cords depending on what computer I'm using are a pain to route properly.
If you have a large, full size keyboard that is already taking up a large amount of space on your desk, and you have a large desk surface, then I agree the wireless keyboard doesn't seem like huge benefit.
I've had big and small keyboards. With smaller one, I find myself setting aside to make more room on desk on ad-hoc basis, since my desk is rather small.
Also, having a wire sticking out of small keyboard perceptibly creates more visual clutter. Could just be me ;-)
I get your point but really there’s no downside to them. I switch batteries once a year and for the rest they are 100% as reliable as a wired one.
Even if I use a wireless feature (switching the keyboard to another computer, typing while farther away from my desk) only once a year I still win out.
Yes, that's the main use case. I rearrange my desk depending on what I do, and going wireless makes that process much easier. Connecting a computer to my living room TV is also much easier, as I can easily use it from the couch.
I have my keyboard connected to two computers from working from home. I have my work Mac running connected to my primary monitor and my personal computer connected to my secondary monitor because I've ran out of usb ports on my Mac. The wireless dongle + Bluetooth feature lets me have the keyboard connected to both without needing a KVM setup.
The laptop also moves, and I take the wireless keyboard with me when in the office. That way I can use a real keyboard in both locations - my employer does provide the wired Apple keyboards in office, but I'm not a fan.
I am really surprised by the benefit being switching between machines. For me switching bluetooth devices always has been much harder than just plugging a cable into a different machine. Is the dongle making this easier? Don't you still have to switch what machine the dongle is plugged into?
In my use case, a single Bluetooth keyboard paired with multiple computers is a huge convenience; I've got a work Macbook, a personal Macbook, and a personal desktop. I can just press a couple of buttons on my Keychron and move it from one device to another within a couple of seconds, and my monitor will (normally) always pick the right input to use as well.
I have my computer plugged to my bedroom TV. I sit on an office chair 5 feet away and have a keyboard and trackpad sitting on a lap desk. I love this setup and it requires wireless peripherals.
I'd argue that when you're doing it properly, the cable is responsible for at least 50% of the aesthetic of any nice keyboard setup.
Going wireless would be considerably less visually interesting than what you can do with a nice, attractive cable. (but I'll concede that wireless is heaps better than using the ugly/boring/fragile thin black cables that typically get bundled in with keyboards at no additional cost)
What I don't like about the MX keyboards is that they don't have an IBM compatibility mode.
For example, the pause key is Start+Fn+B.
So the familiar break combination in Visual Studio CTRL+Pause is CTRL+Start+Fn+B. The Fn key is on the left, so it requires two-handed operation.
Some key combinations can not be reached at all, not even as a macro. The macro facility (progammable key) is near useless anyway.
Also no Menu key (in the place were they have the Fn key), which I use all the time on Windows. The combined Windows/Mac keycap labels are unfortunate as well (unless you frequently switch your keyboard between both systems I guess), seems like a cheap cost-cutting measure instead of offering two models or exchangeable keycaps.
Am I the only one that likes the _idea_ of customizable keyboards, but just can't stand how the mechanical keyboarsd feel?
I wish the customization options and custom keycaps, etc. would trickle to down to the non-mechanical market.
I understand that's not where the money (probably) is, but I actively dislike the noise and physical feeling of mechanical keyboards, but would _love_ to be able to build and customize one.
I want a low-profile keys, scissor switches, but with cute colorways and in layout that doesn't make my wrists feel like they'll explode after 30 minutes.
Also, that gif is of my completely custom analog hall effect keyboard that uses 3D printed Void Switches which you can also customize to your heart's delight:
(Make them feel however you like since the design is parametric and you can customize the feel by changing the total travel, distance between the magnets at rest, etc)
For reference, I'm spending most of my time working on the firmware so that I can start selling some (though "the plan" is mostly surrounding selling PCBs/kits and "print it your damned self!" hehe). Here's the numpad I've been working on lately (to develop the firmware):
There are plenty of options, however they do require at least some time and money investment.
With low-profile switches, you can have switches that are as light or heavy as you want. I guess the travel distance is what makes the feeling the most different from scissor switches.
I'm alternating between two radically different keyboards and a semi limited budget: a GMMK Pro with extremely silent heavy tactile switches (Boba U4s) and high profile keycaps, and a Ferris Sweep, split columnar ergo with Low profile switches (Choc burned orange so still heavy tactile but that's my preference).
Both are more quiet than an standard plastic rubber dome keyboard. I can hear the springs in the low profile one but it is apparently easy enough to mod, it's just not worth it to me as I don't bother my colleagues and I'm not bothered by it myself.
It seems like a lot of work is needed to emulate scissor switches but it may be worth it. Depending on your area, you might find someone willing to lend/send you a keychron low profile to try out.
I guess most people who enjoy scissor switches are content with what is already on offer.
They make low-profile mechanicals that feel and sound much different than the full profile versions you're probably thinking of. I have one of these, it's quiet enough for work and feels great with the banana switches I threw in it: https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k3-wireless-mecha...
Readit News
I mean, I _think_ the switches are proprietary -- the page has no real information about the switches at all, which is a bit like selling a computer by showing you a picture of the case and telling you it has "a CPU".
Hotswappable switch sockets are basically a standard feature in the mechanical keyboard scene these days, with boards that sell for as low as $50-$60 having hotswappable sockets.
I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will bounce off.
Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.
At $150, it's priced above most budget boards (the sort you'd see on /r/budgetkeebs, which is more my wheelhouse anyways), but with none of the selling points of the boards in that range -- and it's getting into the low end of "standard"/"pricier" boards, but again, it can't compete with boards in the $60 range....so why bother?
*EDIT*: I'm seeing a lot of folks responding to this and saying "look, this is exactly what I'm looking for", so...I stand corrected. The above are my own opinions (and as a little bit of a hyper-frugalist sometimes, I'd still recommend shopping around on prices), but they're just that: my opinions. Don't let me make you feel like you're stupid or wrong to like what you like just because it's not what _I_ like! If this is your jam, then I'm stoked for you, and congrats on possibly finding the exact thing you're looking for!
Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY. While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.
I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps, boards, firmware and soldering iron.
I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
Didn't mean to go off on such a rant, but if helps even one person choose a better board than a Logitech, I'd say it was worth it. As someone who's used a Logitech board daily for 6 years, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - especially for the money.
>If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
In my experience with Logitech switches, you will be disappointed. I own boards with both Romer-G Browns and Blues. I kid you not that I've felt linear switches that had more tactility than either of these switches produce.
[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/razer-bug-let...
This is the one I own and I can't recommend it highly enough: https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.
From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.
You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.
What I'll say is: I've had both the MX Keys, and the G915. The MX Keys is the baby brother chicklet version of this one. The G915 is Logitech's gaming-grade low-profile mechanical keyboard, using switches that visually look similar to this one. I've had switch failures on both, within 18 months of (reasonably heavy) use; double typing, missed inputs, etc. The only keyboard I've had fail quicker is the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboards; but I have a half dozen which have lasted significantly longer.
A few other paths I'd recommend which are better:
1. Go to Best Buy. I know, old school. Most have a gaming products isle, with keyboards, and a display area with a bunch of them. Try them all out. Try to find one with standard Cherry switches (most have them nowadays, except Logitech and maybe Razer; and they'll advertise it proudly on the box). They'll have RGB and other nonsense, but they're reasonably price competitive and generally solid keyboards. Corsair makes some good ones; I have a Corsair that sees daily use that's gotta be 4-5 years old now, on Cherry MX Red switches.
2. Something like this: https://kbdfans.com/collections/fully-assembled-keyboard. Pre-assembled DIY. You'll probably end up paying a bit more, and even their pre-assembly DIY configurator is, frankly, daunting. But the only thing to really worry about is selecting the right switch brand for you; and YouTube can help a lot, locating videos of people typing on each switch type. For the totally uninclined: Cherry Reds are the classic novice switch (or Silent Reds if you want really low sound, but the Reds themselves are pretty quiet).
Frankly, to me; this isn't a situation where I will argue "all big box brands suck, don't buy a big box". Some of them are pretty good. But Logitech keyboards have really dropped in quality lately; if you're going to go big box, at least don't go Logitech, please.
I'm not a keyboard geek (I don't touch-type, for one thing), and feel you, for the "one-stop shop" thing.
I do have a couple of old Logitech keyboards, collecting dust in a bin, upstairs.
Long story short: that mechanical keyboard was not the modern incarnation the tanks of years gone by. I am using one based upon Cherry switches at the moment. I don't have enough experience to judge the long term outcome, but my initial research suggests a similar outcome. Most of the hype around modern mechanicals seem to focus upon sound and feel (and, more justifiably, the ability to build your own), rather than quality. If that's the case, I feel that the gradual degradation of cheap keyboards is a more desirable outcome.
You are putting your security at risk (who knows whether the encryption is secure or whether the Logitech drivers are backdoored), as well as your convenience since you'll need to charge it periodically and there's a good chance you'll forget it (or forgot to buy disposable batteries if that's what it uses) and be completely unable to use the keyboard for a while, and it will have more latency and may even fail to work due to interference; on top of that, you'll pay more for these drawbacks.
You should really only buy a wireless keyboard for very specialized needs where you need to move it around while not also moving the PC with it.
Swappable keys aren't exactly a power-use feature. I remove my keycaps every so often to clean them, and swapping a broken switch is basically as easy using the keycap/switch tool that came with my board. It also means I can do a repair for a couple of dollars over buying a whole board. Not to mention I have a bunch of spare switches that came with my board so I can do a repair in a minute.
[1] https://nuphy.com/products/air75
No fuss mechanical keyboard already exist. No need to ditch repairability, etc.
If this is like my other Logitech keyboards, that's about 2.1 years.
It would constantly act like there was dust in the sensor (or so I thought) making erratic movements that could sometimes be reduced with a mouse pad. Finally I did some research and found out that without using their proprietary Windows only driver, the mouse would only operate in the lowest dpi setting.
I immediately drove to the store and bought the cheapest corded Kensington mouse they had, which was like $10 and a 1/10th of what that Logitech piece of shit cost. It was like I had a whole new computer, I spent way too long being idly frustrated with my overpriced mouse.
That was and will remain the last Logitech product I buy
I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's perfect for someone who's no-fuss.
[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...
It is quiet enough that I can type (albeit VERY slowly/softly) while I'm on a call, but nowhere near as quiet as the crappy logitechs I always get.
It never drops off, it feels great to type on. The lighting and everything is configurable, and will even light up the hot keys you need for a specific game!
It's a great experience. I have no interest in a customizable keyboard, I just want one that works.
The caps matter too - full height, half height, flat or with a small depression in the middle, various types of plastic, with painted symbols or injection molded symbols for light transparency.
Keyboard that needs firmware updates? Yuck. It’s an input device. I’ll stick with my 12 year old WASD Code and Model M thank you very much.
/end boomer
I've lost every dongle I've ever had ... never again.
You know a peripheral company is dead when, as of last year or so, they still didn't have peripherals with USB-C connectors.
I suspect that "use it 'til it dies" is going to be a lot shorter than you expect, with the new Logitech.
Other mechanical keyboards have different switch-types listed, but even as a user of a mech keyboard for a decade now I couldn't tell you which is which without looking it up. Logitech simplified it with "Tactile Quiet", "Linear", and "Clicky". You immediately know which style is for you without having to consult some switch tactile/loudness chart or ask the mechanical keyboard cult for their take. They've lowered the bar of entry into the mechanical keyboard market. Do other companies do the same or go the extra mile to simplify the process? Probably, but it carries a lot more weight when the biggest name in computer peripherals does it.
As for me, I might give it a go eventually. If they take a cue from the MX mouse series with how damn customizable it is binding buttons to actions, then I'll definitely be grabbing it.
Also Logitech's propertiary dongle is not necessary, it can use Bluetooth.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/24/23137797/logitech-mx-mast...
Perhaps they’re rebranded generics, can’t say.
I tried Logitech G915 TKL keyboard a while back. One of the dealbreakers was that while connected by Bluetooth, you couldn't use any of the _smart_ features of the keyboard like macros or more advanced backlight options. It may be different with this keyboard, but I definitely wouldn't assume that all of the features are available via Bluetooth, sadly
(and I have a mac keyboard stashed in the back of the closet for when I need to boot THAT into recovery mode)
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Never really cared about swapping switches much and I want my keyboard to be wireless. I’d consider buying this if I didn’t already own the regular mx keys.
[1]: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2019-13052#
I don’t think that they’re targeting the same sort of user as the enthusiast board manufacturers do.
I mean the MX Keys is a popular product outside of mech keyboard circles, this may be positioned as an alternative for those users
I have been using the gaming version of this keyboard (G915) for years and would prefer not going back to high rise keys.
Better ergonomics, looks better, easier to clean, less wobbly keys, smaller chance of breaking a keycap.
Where are you getting this from? I can count at least 3 people I know using low profiles. Without doing a poll. Some people want that laptop feel in a desktop board.
Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist? I don't have time to research a keyboard made by some mom and pop keyboard operation when I already know it won't work (easily if at all) with my setup.
With Logitech's unifying receiver, I can have a completely wireless setup with a single keyboard and two mice (two different kinds that I switch between for wrist health and comfort) that I can seamlessly use with my work computer and home computer and the same monitor. So no wires, one monitor, one keyboard and mice setup, and two computers (of different OSs) that I switch between with a simple keyboard shortcut.
I'm not into the mechanical keyboard world because I value ergonomics and silence over nerding out over an overly clacky keyboard, but since this keyboard uses Logitech's unifying receiver, it has value. (Edit: well, it looks like this doesn't use the existing unifying receiver, which is definitely a valid complaint.)
The issues with the unifying receiver and interference are not specific to the receiver. As far as I understand, it's interference from USB 3.x ports that affects any 2.5 GHz wireless receiver.
I think this is a fundamental element of modern 'advertising on social media'. This and 'scarcity' of product 'drops'.
My teenage son was sucked into this nonsense about two+ years ago. The PCBs for the keyboards (purchased from multiple vendors) are terribly-supported Chinese garbage. Official tech support is junk, and if you ask a keyboard community, it's taken as an insult to the community.
And before anyone says, "bad assembly" -- my son is certified from a three-day long Haako micro-soldering course, so he knows how to solder.
After looking around for a while, I mostly found 10-key-less custom boards, very few full keyboards and none were the exact layout I wanted (they were either ANSI with the small Enter, which I hate, or 105-key ISO, which I would have also hated). Not to mention lacking media keys and/or programmable keys. Then I found my current keyboard. The Logitech G915 Lightspeed.
It is EXACTLY what I wanted. Has the correct layout, has media keys, has programmable keys, it's dual wireless (Bluetooth and their Lightspeed connector, which is definitely more reliable than Bluetooth, I have to tell you; also it works before booting into Windows, which Bluetooth does not, so I don't have to use a different keyboard for BIOS), the battery lasts FOREVER (3-4 weeks, including me turning on the lighting at night) and is replaceable. It uses Kailh Low-profile switches, which although uncommon, can be found online, and, while not hotswappable, can be replaced in the event of failure.
The MRSP is 250 EUR, I got it for 150 new, which is a steal. With that money I basically bought myself a keyboard which I can conceivably use for the next 20 years, no problem (factoring in inevitable key repairs and battery replacement(s), of course).
Don't know about you, but I'm happy with my choice and purchase and would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone. In fact, after using it for a while, I also purchased the G502 Wireless mouse, which I also love.
So, yeah, for some people, Logitech peripherals are exactly what they need.
Logitech G915 looks great if it just used the cable, it seems to have volume knob/roller too. Too bad there isn't wired cheaper equivalent, at least I don't see any.
Yes, I can look into other options, but this is targeting people like me, who are already in the logitech ecosystem and are happy there. I can try my luck with another brand that I may or may not like more, or I can go with this and hope that it's of similar quality to other devices in the MX sub-brand.
What have the MX keyboards offered? This is a generic mech, another one had a scroll wheel... where's the no fuss tenting split with thumb features beating function and price point of the an Ergodox or Keyboardio?
honestly I was into mechanical keyboards for a while, I put together a few kits, I bought into group buys on individual hand-crafted keys, group buys on keysets, and bought a HHKB to try topre switches. After a while I just stopped, because the scene is incredibly disorganized and constantly shifting (e.g., I was into mechanical keyboards for a year or two and /r/budgetkeebs didn't even exist, but lots of my friends still know me as the keyboard enthusiast guy so they always ask me where to get a keyboard). The barrier to entry is very substantial. There are a lot of people who would like a nicer keyboard who don't want to have to deal with that nonsense.
Take that whole concept, and now think about webcams. People have money to burn and spent a lot of time on video chat because of Covid. How many people sat around and did hours and hours of research to buy the perfect webcam? How many people heard the Logitech 1080p webcam (the C920x I think?) was pretty good, bought it, plugged it in, had a good product and literally never thought about it again? I'm willing to bet that second group is easily ten times as large as the first group. And alllllllll those people see "Logitech" and all they think is "it's a peripheral that will probably work well that I don't have to think about". That's an enormous market.
anyway I can't figure out if the MX means the switches have Cherry MX stems or not, which is annoying. Not something I would buy, but definitely a frustratingly underserved market segment.
I have the opposite experience across probably half a dozen Logitech devices over the last decade or so. The dongle is so much more reliable and far lower latency than bluetooth. I'd take Logitech unified receiver over bluetooth all day long. I haven't had nearly as much luck with other 2.4Ghz receivers. I'm also using a RK Royal Kludge wireless keyboard and it's very particular about where the receiver is plugged in and distance from the keyboard.
Really? Been using Logitech devices for years and never had any issue with interference.
Mechanical keyboards are filtering down into corporate IT purchasing after they've entered the consumer mainstream (gaming keyboards and the like), particularly in smaller / "hip" companies that decide to buy smaller amounts of premium hardware instead of trying to shave pennies off unit costs in volume (Fortune 500 etc.). Logitech's retail reach makes this a much simpler decision for those purchasing agents, who will likely be able to purchase these through pre-existing channels, compared to smaller outlets offering specialized keyboards.
I have a ridiculously priced Topre Realforce, but when friends and family ask for a recommendation or I'm helping them setup a machine I would definitely recommend something like this if they're up for spending a little more. Historically I've been recommending the Logitech K840 in those scenarios. This looks like a wireless upgrade to that.
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Wireless/Nordic/nRF24LU1...https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/nRF24-series
This chip was pretty popular for non-bluetooth keyboard/mouse dongles, not just Logitech.
i don't know about the Unifying but the bolt is certainly based on Bluetooth, BT 5.0 Low Power to be exact..
It looks like it's their short travel switches, which are found on the G915. I own, but do not use (on account of my newer custom keeb), a G915. The switches are a noticeable step above stock Cherrys, with significantly less scratchiness (that probably has to do with the short travel), but obviously pale in comparison to "the rest." The G915 also has really solid build quality, although I'm not sure if that translates to this model.
Despite my positive comments about the keyboard family, I strongly recommend looking into a custom keyboard because you'll find a much closer match, for what you're looking for, than what OEM keyboards will ever yield. You can get a GMMK 2, with lubed switches, for $149 [1] (then spend another $20 on cheap keycaps on Amazon). The switches are hot-swappable, so you will get many years of use from it. GMMK 2 is extremely entry-level, but will blow almost any OEM keyboard clear out of the water (including this one).
You can also get keyboard switch samplers to help you choose which switch works best for you.
[1]: https://www.pcgamingrace.com/pages/gmmk-2-configurator?color...
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I honestly have no idea why this was posted on HN, there's a ton of other keyboards that have the same specs and features. Sure it's got Logitech's priority dongle, but as you point out, what's here that's not on a 70 dollar gk65.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
I like mechanical keyboards but I just don't care. What research do I possibly need to do?
> Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.
If you find yourself in this bucket, check out Keychron. They make mechanical and optical hot swappable keyboards that are amazingly durable, multi-device, multi-platform, and cheap. The only bother you (sometimes) have to put up with is batch ordering.
I've scratch-built keyboards from disparate parts. I've put kits together. I've flashed keyboard firmware. I know how to solder and de-solder.
I'm not super plugged-in to the community but I do consider myself an enthusiast.
I don't care about hot swappable keys; soldering is easy enough. I don't really care who makes the switches as long as they feel good enough. I would prefer standard stems but I know I'm not really likely to swap any keycaps.
I'll probably buy one of these when I get sick of my current work keyboard's lack of a numpad.
Can someone speak to this?
I'm asking because I have a Nintendo Switch and I play games with split Joy Cons in docked mode, my right cons have been absurdly unreliable and I'm trying to understand the reason. I've had 4 pairs but they all suffer and the left never does. The console is to my left and my laptop with the Logitech dongle is to my right so I wonder if that has something to do with it. Turning off my mouse seems to help but maybe I should be removing the dongle too...
It is annoying that seemingly nobody in the entirety of Logitech could be bothered to spend 3 minutes scrolling /r/mechanicalkeyboards to see how mkb customers describe their own keyboard and realize that they should put the proper switch name directly in the product description... but that is more or less what I have come to expect from a BigCorp.
I like my logitech mouse, but for the desktop I built, I had to buy and extension USB cable to keep the dongle far enough away from the machine to get the mouse to work without glitching.
lightspeed received is one devide per dongle because it is supposed to be lower latency..
the bolt is the replacement for their old unifying receiver, it support multiple devices with the same dongle and it is based on bt low power..
I agree. For this price you could buy a great keyboard from Vortex with swap able keys .. which click the way you like it.
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I would see myself buying one of those if it was a bit cheaper (they will drop in price for sure) and if I didn't have enough keyboards.
It does, though. They are all MX switches, and they have 3 different ones: tactile silent, clicky, and linear. Each one of them has a short basic description.
Reading the engadget review[0] of it, it seems like the naming was fairly accurate. The author points out that "linear" is an equivalent of MX Red, and "clicky" is an equivalent of MX Blue. The "tactile silent" switches weren't explicitly called out in the review, but it sounds like they would be the closest to MX Brown.
0. https://www.engadget.com/logitech-mx-mechanical-hands-on-gam...
What's wrong with Logitech?
I see a lot of praise for the MX Master mouse and keyboard, I use the mouse myself and it's been great.
This seems to be the standard Apple strategy, which has worked wonders.
"Easily pair via Bluetooth® Low Energy or the included Logi Bolt USB Receiver..."
MX is a type of switch, so from the name, I'm guessing it uses MX style switches (the most popular style of switch). Specifically MX describes the shape of the connectors on the switch. This means the keyboard will be compatible with aftermarket key caps, which are very popular.
EDIT: While the switches do look like MX switches to me, Logitech is also using MX as branding to describe mice, non-mech keyboards etc. This is confusing for someone who knows mechanical keyboards.
“No one ever got fired for buying IBM/Microsoft/<insert here>”
Loss avoidance at its finest.
I've been using wired mechanical keyboards for about 15 years so I can't recommend a wireless model, but Ducky makes great, reliable, entry-level mechanical keyboards. I've mostly used Ducky and I've never had one of their keyboards fail in any way. Glorious also makes great keyboards, but based on my perception of the build quality, I have a feeling their cheaper keyboards might not last as long. I'm currently using a Glorious GMMK Pro and it feels very solid.
The quality of their products used to be pretty good, but it's becomming obvious that they're starting to cut too many corners to reduce costs. I have an old pair of logitech speakers that have lasted me well over 10 years.
The G Pro Wireless has some major issues as well. They build up static electricity during use and this causes a single click to register as multiple clicks, and causes a continuous click to stop registering when you're holding the button down. This is terrible for a gaming mouse. I switched to a Razer Viper Ultimate and haven't had any issues.
You will always be better off buying headsets from companies that focus on headsets and headphones, rather than from companies that see headsets as a cheap filler item to sell to people who bought their mice and keyboards and want the blinky lights to sync up.
The HyperX Cloud (wired) is actually a pretty good headset.
At the risk of turning this into a product recommendation thread, I am very happy with my Astro A50. Hits all the right notes for a wireless headset to wear all day at home - from video chats over coding and gaming to laundry. Doesn't even have blinky lights.
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Pioneer SE-M531, M521 .... have similar problem with screws as you state.
logitech - i absolutely LOVE MX series of products they are innovative and provide absolutelly best functionality, keys look nice not really my style but they look nice as a unit.
so i am sad to see they jumped on mechanical keyboard bandwagon, i hate mechanical keyboards with all my life. always clicking, long travel, slow typing....
Changed my headset to the G Pro X Wireless after having broken 2 SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless headsets, which for some reason decided to use a single plastic piece for the hinge to hold the earcups on (on a $350 headset!).
Better build quality (a mouse should last more than 1-2 years, which is the average life I get out of them).
USB-C receiver. I hate having to use a dongle just for the USB-A receiver.
Better drivers. GHub is pretty bloaty.
I had an SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless as well before the Logitech one, and I ran into the same issue! Huge disappointment after having loved the SteelSeries Siberia wired headset
Be aware that Logitech now has 3 wireless technologies:
Unifying - the original 2.4 wireless, supports up to 6 devices. Symbol - Orange square with black or white six-pointed snowflake
Logi Bolt - the new encrypted version of their unifying controller, also supports up to 6 devices, uses Bluetooth Low Energy and FIPS. It is a new dongle. Symbol - Yellow hexagon with black bolt
LightSpeed Wireless - high performance low latency wireless for gaming, supports only one device per dongle, uses much more energy.
Available USB ports on laptops can become an issue if you mix them, happened to me!
Getting the keyboard and a Logi Bolt USB receiver to pair on Linux was a huge PITA. (Why do I have to trust and install an app for this anyway?) In the end I resorted to plugging the receiver into a mac and pairing it that way. Even that hasn't worked out so well though, since I ended up with messed up modifier keys when I transferred the receiver back to a Linux machine (the modifier keys are still mapped as a mac keyboard).
Another issue I have is that I can't suspend the Linux machine if I leave the USB receiver plugged in. If I do, the machine will wake back up almost immediately after suspending. Kinda annoying to have to always unplug it...especially since if you buying a Logi Bolt device it's probably because you want to be able to switch it between multiple machines without having to constantly plug/unplug thing to USB...
1: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/power-management-acpi-wake-u...
Beware though, that they have an issue with scroll wheels breaking after several months of use (a plastic axle connecting the wheel to the rotary encoder breaks off). After mine broke the second time after warranty repair, ended up ordering a replacement part myself and also modded the scrolling mechanism to have less resistance.
> [^11] Not compatible with Logitech Unifying USB Receiver technology
So you'll have to throw away your existing MX Anywhere 3 and repurchase this seemingly vaporware "for Business" variant[1] if you want a single transceiver for mouse+keyboard? Hmm...
[1] https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-anywhere-3-f...
That being said, for office work I'm satisfied with Bluetooth. No extra dongles is a huge plus, too.
I still have an MX Master 2 and i am considering getting this as a bundle, MX Master 3S and MX Mechanical..
For keyboard i currently have their G512 gamer and it bother me that it use a separated software from the MX Master 2, the keyboard use the Logitech G Hub while the mouse use the Logitech Options..
Edit: Never mind, it looks like the keyboard can connect to multiple devices at a time. That's really cool.
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(If the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard came in wireless, I'd get one - one less wire making it sub-optimal when I'm ready to swap keyboards.)
1) I switch between a mac (work) and windows (leisure/gaming) and thus switch between a mac wireless keyboard and a mechanical windows one. I move one to the side so the desk doesn't get cluttered.
2) Desktop cords depending on what computer I'm using are a pain to route properly.
I've had big and small keyboards. With smaller one, I find myself setting aside to make more room on desk on ad-hoc basis, since my desk is rather small.
Also, having a wire sticking out of small keyboard perceptibly creates more visual clutter. Could just be me ;-)
Even if I use a wireless feature (switching the keyboard to another computer, typing while farther away from my desk) only once a year I still win out.
Some people carry external keyboard and mouse with their laptop for when they dock.
There are a multitude of reasons, but for something fixed to a desktop I don't find many upsides personally.
The laptop also moves, and I take the wireless keyboard with me when in the office. That way I can use a real keyboard in both locations - my employer does provide the wired Apple keyboards in office, but I'm not a fan.
- I play games using a separate, even smaller, keyboard. Easy to pick up my wireless work+everything else kb and toss it somewhere out of the way
- Sometimes I like to recline my chair way back and continue typing with the keyboard on my lap
Going wireless would be considerably less visually interesting than what you can do with a nice, attractive cable. (but I'll concede that wireless is heaps better than using the ugly/boring/fragile thin black cables that typically get bundled in with keyboards at no additional cost)
No, but I move my laptop repeatedly.
Eg caps lock -> delete, num lock and scroll lock -> volume down/up, paragraph key -> play/pause (I'm on SE layout). Works very well for me.
I wish the customization options and custom keycaps, etc. would trickle to down to the non-mechanical market.
I understand that's not where the money (probably) is, but I actively dislike the noise and physical feeling of mechanical keyboards, but would _love_ to be able to build and customize one.
I want a low-profile keys, scissor switches, but with cute colorways and in layout that doesn't make my wrists feel like they'll explode after 30 minutes.
Just get a 3D printer and all your cheap, completely custom keycap desires will be answered...
https://github.com/riskable/keycap_playground
I'm typing on Keycap Playground keycaps right now:
https://gfycat.com/costlyglaringhyracotherium
Also, that gif is of my completely custom analog hall effect keyboard that uses 3D printed Void Switches which you can also customize to your heart's delight:
https://github.com/riskable/void_switch
(Make them feel however you like since the design is parametric and you can customize the feel by changing the total travel, distance between the magnets at rest, etc)
For reference, I'm spending most of my time working on the firmware so that I can start selling some (though "the plan" is mostly surrounding selling PCBs/kits and "print it your damned self!" hehe). Here's the numpad I've been working on lately (to develop the firmware):
https://gfycat.com/softfixedfanworms
With low-profile switches, you can have switches that are as light or heavy as you want. I guess the travel distance is what makes the feeling the most different from scissor switches.
I'm alternating between two radically different keyboards and a semi limited budget: a GMMK Pro with extremely silent heavy tactile switches (Boba U4s) and high profile keycaps, and a Ferris Sweep, split columnar ergo with Low profile switches (Choc burned orange so still heavy tactile but that's my preference).
Both are more quiet than an standard plastic rubber dome keyboard. I can hear the springs in the low profile one but it is apparently easy enough to mod, it's just not worth it to me as I don't bother my colleagues and I'm not bothered by it myself.
It seems like a lot of work is needed to emulate scissor switches but it may be worth it. Depending on your area, you might find someone willing to lend/send you a keychron low profile to try out.
I guess most people who enjoy scissor switches are content with what is already on offer.