Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear.
But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the expense of being less stretchy. Women like to show off their curves.) The problem with this being that no one else made the styles I enjoyed. It was a fad that came and went. It doesn't exist in thrift stores. I don't even know what to call it, so I can't find pictures in an image.google search. Forever 21 made products I liked, but then they switched and I (and my friends) couldn't find anything that came close since. The last time I bought clothes at Forever 21 was in 2010.
Since then H&M has caught on like wildfire taking over the market Forever 21 once had. They do a lot of the same, but their clothes are even cheaper (why?) and in my current wardrobe my favorite clothes have come from H&M. I'm afraid the same fate will come to H&M that has come to Forever 21. Or maybe H&M will learn from F21's mistakes. Only time will tell.
>Since then H&M has caught on like wildfire taking over the market Forever 21 once had. They do a lot of the same, but their clothes are even cheaper (why?) and in my current wardrobe my favorite clothes have come from H&M. I'm afraid the same fate will come to H&M that has come to Forever 21. Or maybe H&M will learn from F21's mistakes. Only time will tell.
That's a rather weird characterization in my opinion... H&M stores in roughly their current form have been around a lot longer than Forever 21. H&M is also 4-5 times the size of Forever 21 by revenue.
Perhaps they're talking about the US market? In Europe, H&M has been big for as long as I can remember (since the late 1990s, which is when I started shopping for clothes).
>That's a rather weird characterization in my opinion... H&M stores in roughly their current form have been around a lot longer than Forever 21. H&M is also 4-5 times the size of Forever 21 by revenue.
My girlfriend worked as a weaving technician and she said the H&M stuff got much worse over the past decade and subjectively it is true. The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear.
I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better after the 20th wash than the H&M stuff feels fresh out of the store.
> The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear.
H&M stuff for me never tears or gets holes. Mine just stretches in places where it shouldn't stretch (eg. T-shirt sleeves - how the hell do those stretch?! I don't have steroid-monster arms. I have a <1 year old t-shirt where I can put my whole head through the sleeve (usually by accident), and there's still some space left, and i remember it was fitted well when new... So yeah, it's my 'yard work' shirt. ).
Well apparently women are supposed to only wear a piece of clothing once or twice, no? So they optimize for price, so you can buy more pieces of clothing so you have something to wear, rather than longevity which "nobody" cares about.
That said, it's not just the clothes for women. I tried buying some jeans at H&M, twice. Both times I wore a hole in them in less than a month. I'm not doing anything special, just a regular office guy. I usually buy Diesel jeans and they last at least a couple of years each.
Most brands, especially the low priced ones has reduced the quality of the weaving and textiles, and that contributes to the fast fashion. Your sweater stretches a bit and you go buy a new one (or so they think). I remember I had bought some sweaters in the late 90s from Topman in the UK and they looked brand new 7 years later. Now, nothing from Topman is nearly as good.
Now though I stick to brands such as COS, yes they do cost x5 or X10 what H&M costs, but the difference in the clothe is evident.
I have similar experiences with H&M, and a lot of other cheap basically colored shirts. It’ll feel great at first. Then I’ll leave it in the dryer for a few minutes too long, and the fit completely changes while the material looks degraded.
I’m more than happy to spend $30+ on a simple shirt that won’t change its fit after a few cleanings, but struggle to find a consistent brand.
If anyone has recommendations, please let me know.
I personally can see how H&M quality went down in last 10 years. Around 10 years ago it was decent quality for reasonable price, not it's just things I'd avoid even touching.
Before H&M you need to talk about Gap. Their local store to me in the UK is almost always permanently empty. I still use them to buy basics, but always shop online. Superdry, the same - it's always empty, but I'm not a fan of big logos on clothes so wouldn't buy Superdry.
Uniqlo hasn't yet made the same mistake of opening stores almost everywhere. You can shop online with them, but there aren't many stores outside of the capital in the UK.
In the UK it really does look like shops on the high street are struggling with the physical costs as opposed to shopping online.
I felt in love with Uniqlo. It's just perfectly what I want from a clothing store.
I have heard Uniqlo in Europe and US is different from Uniqlo in Asia and they try to position themselves as slightly more expensive; I can't really tell.
H&M is much, much bigger than Forever 21. Forever 21 barely exists out side of North America, but H&M can be found everywhere. I mean everywhere. That may be a factor in how cheap they can be - The scale of the business.
Sounds like the article that part of their demise came from a botched fast international ramp-up. Perhaps they didn't have the expertise (or funds?) to scale up.
Your experience with F21 is how I felt about H&M but going from 2001 to 2005. It was still a really new store in the US at the time and brought that European slim fit that worked best with my body type which so many American brands lacked at the time. I still pop into H&M once in a while but it's definitely not my main store anymore, I honestly don't know what is. I feel like H&M really popularized fast fashion more so than F21 but I'm also looking at this from a very male (albeit queer pseudo fashionable male if that makes a difference) pov. Granted stores like Old Navy already had cheap clothing at the time but it wasn't really considered "fashion", it was more like everyday super casual wear.
I think it's comes down to cuts at the end of the day. There is a style that fits a body type perfectly and the wearer loves it, but then that style disappears. Or at least that is how it works for me. The cuts that fit my proportions best tend to look and feel the best.
eg, skinny jeans made it hard for me to lift my legs for some of them and low cut / boot cut felt like they were falling down on me, but they weren't really falling down. But give me some jeggings and I'm a happy camper.
> Men get thicker fabric, but at the expense of being less stretchy
Not sure if it's the thickness or the fabric. Men's clothes are more likely to be cotton, women's have more synthetics to get stretchiness and better draping. Not sure what that does for durability, but it might explains issues in the dryer.
I'd also be curious to know the staple length of the cotton used by fast fashion brands, but I'd bet it's shorter.
When I transitioned to female, one thing I was told early on was that I shouldn't put my tops in the dryer anymore, because the dryer will wreck them. So nowadays I hang-dry all my tops.
And one interesting side-effect of my transition is that I actually like the feel of clothes now. Stretchy materials are so much more comfortable. I've never been able to stand the feel of cotton against my skin, and I'm so glad I get to wear clothes made of stretchy softness now. If I had my way, everything I wear would be made of rayon and spandex.
I wonder how many of these "issues in the dryer" are caused by people using the high-heat setting on the dryer. I have clothes that are both cotton and synthetic (like exercise/sports clothes) and I really don't have durability problems with any of them, except for cotton shirts "pilling" on the back where they're tucked into my pants after I've had them for a long time. But I always run my dryer at the lowest heat setting, use the sensor drying set for least dry, and then hang-dry stuff when it doesn't come out completely dry. Even my cheap synthetic cycling jerseys from Aliexpress are holding up just fine.
H&M makes clothes that seem to have the texture and quality of tissue paper. I understand they are cheap but I assume shopping there is like being the poor man in the boot theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
Perfect for my children though. the pace at which it breaks closely matches them growing out of it. Probably not so good for the thrift store market I guess.
> Mr. Chang, the company’s chief executive, said in a 2012 interview that the chain was named Forever 21 because it targeted 20-somethings and because “old people wanted to be 21 again, and young people wanted to be 21 forever.”
I like how he felt like he needed to explain that one.
The funny thing is that the statement is not true, the first store was called “Fashion 21” and they renamed themselves when they started opening other stores.
Here’s some info on potential reasons why they are going bankrupt.
-they are mall centric store and mall traffic has been declining. Other chains have been “right sizing”
-big discount stores (target, Walmart, TJ Maxx, etc) have upped their (discounted) fashion game
-forever 21 was slow to adjust to these broader trends vs competitors
I also agree with proverbialbunny. My girlfriend used to go there regularly but we haven’t been to one for ages. Could just be us getting older though :)
Overall mall traffic might be declining but I’ve been to malls here in my city where the higher end malls are thriving and more popular than in previous decades.
The Forever 21’s in my area are located in malls that are dated, and ripe for a major renovation.
That's a really good point. I can understand why other stories have been dying to wanting quality merchandise. Victoria Secret is going out of business, but True (an online only company as far as I know) is amazing. I'm in love with their products. Victoria Secret I never cared for.
I’ve seen a lot of people going on about fast fashion recently. I’m aware of lots of shops that are considered fast fashion, but which ones aren’t? Where should I be going to buy more durable clothes that are made of nicer materials? I’m genuinely curious. I’d like to change my buying patterns (I’m really not that fashion conscious, so long as I can have some nice button ups and trousers I’ll be happy).
Here's a couple I like that aren't over-the-top expensive or bespoke:
- LL Bean
- Patagonia
- Everlane
- Lands End
My general rule of thumb: Try to stick to natural fabrics (cotton, wool, linen) for most things. Synthetics can be good but most are really cheap.
If you're willing to pay a little more, there are some small shops still making stuff in America that you can feel good buying and will last a lot longer than your typical fast-fashion goods.
Once you get your sizing dialed in on a few "nice" brands (thrift stores are great for trying several brands, just go in knowing which ones you're looking for) you can wait for sales & seconds (shoes) & used (thrift stores, ebay) & overstock and such. Most are rip-offs at full price but are priced about right (still much higher than fast-fashion, but not insane) at 30-40% off, which isn't that hard to find, and are great deals under that. Now that I know my sizing in a few reasonably consistent much-better-than-fast-fashion brands I just wait for their sales, order a few pieces a year online, and the clothes show up. It's great.
I was looking for an excellent fleece to fit my needs, but I didn't want to spend big $$. I wasn't having any luck, so on a whim I splurged (a bit) and bought a fleece from one of the names listed above.
- I bought it from an outlet store so despite its high price it was still discounted
- It's incredibly well-made
- The "cut" of it is great, as in it fits my form really well
- Its pockets are deep
- It's warm
Zero regrets. It's absolutely one of my favorite clothing items and hopefully something I'll maintain for a long time.
+ Expedition-clothing brands like Fjällräven, whose clothes are meant to serve a person for years trekking in the outdoors.
+ Specialist shops for clothes for certain professional and industrial careers
+ Military surplus shops.
While none of these are good sources for clothes that will make you look trendy and stylish to impress, they are great options if you just want some solid shirts and trousers to wear on an everyday basis.
I don't know if I've just lucked out with my Uniqlo purchases, but I could also recommend them for good-looking basics that last a long, long time.
I've had a couple pairs of Uniqlo jeans for several years now, and they don't have any of the wear in the crotch my Levis used to get. When I was buying Levis, I might get two years out of them before the fabric at the crotch thins and eventually rips. The Uniqlo jeans are showing almost none of that wear (both regular jeans and skinny jeans).
Same with their t-shirts and polo shirts. The necks haven't stretched, nor have they gotten any holes under the sleeves.
One of the two pairs of chinos I own from Uniqlo has started pilling, though, which is too bad, but still has lasted better than the last pair of chinos I bought at Macy's.
Again, ymmv, just my experience, but my wardrobe is now mostly Uniqlo and I'm buying a lot less replacement clothing (at least for basics) than I used to.
Also, the less you dry clothing at all, the longer it'll last -- I line-dry as much as possible, and toss it in the dryer on the no-heat mode to tumble it a bit if it needs it.
> Specialist shops for clothes for certain professional and industrial careers
I've found that the clothing from LAPG to be very well made, and if you are looking for something that can even be worn in the office (business casual), they have that covered, too.
Their stuff is regularly mentioned in certain forums by people in those professions (LEO, TLAs, etc) looking for good clothing that has a lot of functionality and durability in the field, but still looks good in the office.
I found them after wanting a better quality and longer lasting pair of cargo pants (and later, shorts). I wanted something I could use for outdoor hiking activity, and only found that later they still looked great after a period of day hiking, that I could wear them around town afterward if needed.
I found what I needed, and they have proven their durability, comfort, and capability - more than enough pockets to carry what I need, easy access to all of them, plus a lot of extra strength features needed for hiking and other more strenuous activities.
They sell similar clothing that looks even nicer; ie - same kind of pants but without all the extra pockets - or they have some that are well hidden. Also shirts that look like regular short-sleeve button-downs, but with breakaway side seems for quick access to a side holstered weapon (all meant to allow LEO to "blend in" on certain assignments I guess?).
I found their stuff to range in price - the pants and shorts I bought cost much less than stuff I could purchase at name-brand stores, and have lasted much longer than anything from them as well. LAPG also sells some much more expensive clothing, some of which will make you double-take on the price. Maybe it is just that good - but I've never ventured up to those areas.
Despite being seen as the stereotypical tech-worker uniform, Patagonia seems to use well-sourced, high quality material (and they have repair centers).
I’m familiar with Patagonia, but I’ve mostly seen them as an outdoor clothing company, not anything that I’d consider (non SV tech) business casual/smart. Are there any companies that make that sort of stuff that aren’t evil? Like more what you’d find at GAP or a department store, but not made by slave labour.
Wait hear me out. I haven't tried jackets or outwear they sell, but they always stock up of decent quality underwear, t-shirts and jeans. Their Levi's last me about 4 years.
You have to be careful with Costco,and a lot of stuff that they carry regularly drops in quality after becoming successful there, but you can find really good stuff there.
Winter is coming so if you're in the market for light-weight fleeces I'd recommend the Fjallraven Keb fleece (http://bit.ly/2os5DNh) and the Patagonia TechFace (http://bit.ly/2osecHV).
REI stocks a number of more-or-less equally high-quality options (http://bit.ly/2orY7C2)
I would second Uniqlo, and also suggest GAP. But honestly I am not really aware of either of their ethical records, but have found their clothes to be a good balance of price and quality, and they are about the only shops I can find as a Mid-20s male where you can buy good quality 'foundational' items, rather than fashion fads.
I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes. The bankruptcy is probably caused as much by rising standards of living in other countries as it is by the general shift to online ordering.
Fast fashion means three-week fashion cycles. That a fashion cycle is a single delivery, and the shop cannot order more if something is a great success.
What you say sounds wrongish... In a fast fashion shop you can try on ten things this week and ten _other_ things next week, and rate of change makes online ordering look slow.
Dated a top F21 buyer for a few years and I can say that:
1) Prototype to street was way more than 3 weeks. More like 3 months (still faster than most fashion which makes buys 6 months ahead). Zara is the main large retailer that is actually about 1 month from concept to store.
2) The quality of their men's wear was pretty good for the price.
3) They worked their corporate employees to the bone and paid them 60-70% as much as other retailers for the same job. Girlfriend ended up doubling her pay upon accepting a role with another retailer. And on her last day, they still left her a pile of work that took until 5am to finish...Greedy and unprofessional.
If that was the issue, it would be affecting Zara, H&M, Uniqlo etc as well. Zara is seeing record profits, H&Ms revenues are up but profits are down as they spent their money investing in online sales, Uniqlo profits are also up
Mark A. Cohen, the director of retail studies at Columbia Business School, said that he believed fast fashion was as popular as ever, pointing to the success of Zara, but that Forever 21 had expanded far too quickly “without regard to a reasonable outlook. It’s a self-inflicted catastrophe”
Zara, H&M, and Uniqlo are actually somewhat fashionable, at least as "value" brands. Apparently there is some effect where the top 20 remain the top 20 because they are well-known or have other competitive advantages: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/retail/our-insights/the-...
I don't have time to go through all the other failing stores like American Apparel, Dressbarn, JCPenney, Gap, etc., but the story is probably similar, pointless products with no obvious differentiation. H&M is more interesting, massive chain with CEO/management trying to turn it into something more lean / innovative. It's kind of like Amazon with Whole Foods. The eventual outcome of both is uncertain but so far they're moving along.
> I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes.
Anecdotal: my wife started calling it "Forever Toilet Paper" because the clothes disintegrated so quickly (as opposed to Zara and other fast fashion brands that, while fast to market, still put at least a little work into quality.)
Yes, who would have guessed that you get better quality by paying almost 10 times the price. Shirts at Zara are 60$ while forever21 like 10$.
The problem with clothes manufacturing is that there's huge diminished returns - by paying 6 times more you don't get 6 times higher quality. Clothes technology is rather simple.
how much do cheap plastic clothes (polyester, spandex, elastic) contribute to the micro-plastics epidemic I saw on HN recently?
I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.
From what I have been reading, quite a bit. The plastic lint ends up in the water ecosystem pretty quickly compared to other plastics through washing and drying, and they're not obvious being so small.
I imagine most people don't think about their plastic fabrics being plastic at all, they really don't feel like plastic. So when you see lint balls or bits of lint floating about the house you don't think to yourself "Ah, little bits of plastic going into my lungs". When you empty the lint catcher in a drier and pop it right in the bin, it probably doesn't cross most minds that it's a little bundle of plastic fibers. I like to consider myself pretty well informed on the topic and it wasn't until this year that clothing fibers even crossed my mind.
Somehow in most of the apartments I've lived the toilet was always really close to the dryer. So for many many years I would just throw everything from the lint trap into the toilet to be flushed next time I use the restroom. Without thinking about it, it seemed like 'organic' material. Probably most of it was (I tend to use the dryer mostly for towels and bedding, which is mostly cotton).
One morning it occurred to me that I've been flushing microplastics away, which is really terrible...
Catching particles coming from the wash seems like a pretty tough problem. Even if the washing machine could somehow catch these, I can't see consumers (and thus manufacturers) jumping at the chance to clean out dirty soapy goop from a washing machine filter... which I imagine will resemble cleaning out a shower drain trap pretty quickly.
>I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.
Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.
Uh, pretty sure cotton didn't evolve to fix that for animals.
There's of course significant processing applied to those materials before they're suitable as clothing (cotton obviously needs to be picked, it's not on an animal to begin with; leather needs to be tanned).
Lots of people are allergic to wool. Perhaps as much as a quarter to a half of the population will have a mild allergic reaction if they have ordinary coarse wool rubbing against their skin for a long time, like wearing a woollen collar or scarf while trudging through the snow all day. Some people can recognise whether fabric contains wool just by touching it with their fingertips: an immediate itching sensation. So perhaps it evolved for use by sheep, not humans?
Huh? They're obviously optimized for regulating the temperature of the animal they came from. Except for cotton and linen. And they weren't woven. Viscose is pretty comfortable, but it's not a natural fiber. Fiber blends are pretty amazing, too. There's some interesting properties you can get with blends.
To give you an idea how fast FN is, they'll sell then make a product (in that order) so fast that when the customer gets it in the mail, the paint hasn't dried yet.
That doesn’t make sense to me and I work in the fashion industry. Unless you want to pay tens of thousands to air freight goods, min time is at least two weeks.
Readit News
But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the expense of being less stretchy. Women like to show off their curves.) The problem with this being that no one else made the styles I enjoyed. It was a fad that came and went. It doesn't exist in thrift stores. I don't even know what to call it, so I can't find pictures in an image.google search. Forever 21 made products I liked, but then they switched and I (and my friends) couldn't find anything that came close since. The last time I bought clothes at Forever 21 was in 2010.
Since then H&M has caught on like wildfire taking over the market Forever 21 once had. They do a lot of the same, but their clothes are even cheaper (why?) and in my current wardrobe my favorite clothes have come from H&M. I'm afraid the same fate will come to H&M that has come to Forever 21. Or maybe H&M will learn from F21's mistakes. Only time will tell.
That's a rather weird characterization in my opinion... H&M stores in roughly their current form have been around a lot longer than Forever 21. H&M is also 4-5 times the size of Forever 21 by revenue.
My apologies. Faulty assumption on my part.
Watch this
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3162938/
I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better after the 20th wash than the H&M stuff feels fresh out of the store.
H&M stuff for me never tears or gets holes. Mine just stretches in places where it shouldn't stretch (eg. T-shirt sleeves - how the hell do those stretch?! I don't have steroid-monster arms. I have a <1 year old t-shirt where I can put my whole head through the sleeve (usually by accident), and there's still some space left, and i remember it was fitted well when new... So yeah, it's my 'yard work' shirt. ).
That said, it's not just the clothes for women. I tried buying some jeans at H&M, twice. Both times I wore a hole in them in less than a month. I'm not doing anything special, just a regular office guy. I usually buy Diesel jeans and they last at least a couple of years each.
Now though I stick to brands such as COS, yes they do cost x5 or X10 what H&M costs, but the difference in the clothe is evident.
I’m more than happy to spend $30+ on a simple shirt that won’t change its fit after a few cleanings, but struggle to find a consistent brand.
If anyone has recommendations, please let me know.
Uniqlo hasn't yet made the same mistake of opening stores almost everywhere. You can shop online with them, but there aren't many stores outside of the capital in the UK.
In the UK it really does look like shops on the high street are struggling with the physical costs as opposed to shopping online.
I felt in love with Uniqlo. It's just perfectly what I want from a clothing store.
I have heard Uniqlo in Europe and US is different from Uniqlo in Asia and they try to position themselves as slightly more expensive; I can't really tell.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3162938/
Because of ruthless exploitation of the poor:
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/25/world/asia/bangladesh-fac...
I think it's comes down to cuts at the end of the day. There is a style that fits a body type perfectly and the wearer loves it, but then that style disappears. Or at least that is how it works for me. The cuts that fit my proportions best tend to look and feel the best.
eg, skinny jeans made it hard for me to lift my legs for some of them and low cut / boot cut felt like they were falling down on me, but they weren't really falling down. But give me some jeggings and I'm a happy camper.
Not sure if it's the thickness or the fabric. Men's clothes are more likely to be cotton, women's have more synthetics to get stretchiness and better draping. Not sure what that does for durability, but it might explains issues in the dryer.
I'd also be curious to know the staple length of the cotton used by fast fashion brands, but I'd bet it's shorter.
And one interesting side-effect of my transition is that I actually like the feel of clothes now. Stretchy materials are so much more comfortable. I've never been able to stand the feel of cotton against my skin, and I'm so glad I get to wear clothes made of stretchy softness now. If I had my way, everything I wear would be made of rayon and spandex.
Wasn't looking too good last year [0]. Not sure how they're doing now though.
0: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/business/hm-clothes-stock...
Deleted Comment
Hahahaha. Not anymore sadly with most brands. Profit maximization has fixed that in the last few years.
Slave labor. It's why my family won't shop there anymore.
Watch this
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3162938/
I like how he felt like he needed to explain that one.
If their first store was called "Fashion 75", do you think they would have chosen "Forever 75" as their new name?
-they are mall centric store and mall traffic has been declining. Other chains have been “right sizing”
-big discount stores (target, Walmart, TJ Maxx, etc) have upped their (discounted) fashion game
-forever 21 was slow to adjust to these broader trends vs competitors
I also agree with proverbialbunny. My girlfriend used to go there regularly but we haven’t been to one for ages. Could just be us getting older though :)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/...
The Forever 21’s in my area are located in malls that are dated, and ripe for a major renovation.
Huh? This is true I suppose for Walmart and Target, but TJ Maxx just sells overstock stuff that didn't sell elsewhere.
Check out bullet number 4. https://fortune.com/2014/07/24/t-j-maxx-the-best-retail-stor...
If you're willing to pay a little more, there are some small shops still making stuff in America that you can feel good buying and will last a lot longer than your typical fast-fashion goods.
- I bought it from an outlet store so despite its high price it was still discounted
- It's incredibly well-made
- The "cut" of it is great, as in it fits my form really well
- Its pockets are deep
- It's warm
Zero regrets. It's absolutely one of my favorite clothing items and hopefully something I'll maintain for a long time.
For me, buying cheap stuff that has to be replaced often is the price I'm willing to pay for fabrics that feel comfortable and don't irritate my skin.
I absolutely cannot tolerate the feeling of cotton on my skin, and if I have a choice, everything I wear would be made out of rayon and spandex.
+ Expedition-clothing brands like Fjällräven, whose clothes are meant to serve a person for years trekking in the outdoors.
+ Specialist shops for clothes for certain professional and industrial careers
+ Military surplus shops.
While none of these are good sources for clothes that will make you look trendy and stylish to impress, they are great options if you just want some solid shirts and trousers to wear on an everyday basis.
I've had a couple pairs of Uniqlo jeans for several years now, and they don't have any of the wear in the crotch my Levis used to get. When I was buying Levis, I might get two years out of them before the fabric at the crotch thins and eventually rips. The Uniqlo jeans are showing almost none of that wear (both regular jeans and skinny jeans).
Same with their t-shirts and polo shirts. The necks haven't stretched, nor have they gotten any holes under the sleeves.
One of the two pairs of chinos I own from Uniqlo has started pilling, though, which is too bad, but still has lasted better than the last pair of chinos I bought at Macy's.
Again, ymmv, just my experience, but my wardrobe is now mostly Uniqlo and I'm buying a lot less replacement clothing (at least for basics) than I used to.
Also, the less you dry clothing at all, the longer it'll last -- I line-dry as much as possible, and toss it in the dryer on the no-heat mode to tumble it a bit if it needs it.
I've found that the clothing from LAPG to be very well made, and if you are looking for something that can even be worn in the office (business casual), they have that covered, too.
Their stuff is regularly mentioned in certain forums by people in those professions (LEO, TLAs, etc) looking for good clothing that has a lot of functionality and durability in the field, but still looks good in the office.
I found them after wanting a better quality and longer lasting pair of cargo pants (and later, shorts). I wanted something I could use for outdoor hiking activity, and only found that later they still looked great after a period of day hiking, that I could wear them around town afterward if needed.
I found what I needed, and they have proven their durability, comfort, and capability - more than enough pockets to carry what I need, easy access to all of them, plus a lot of extra strength features needed for hiking and other more strenuous activities.
They sell similar clothing that looks even nicer; ie - same kind of pants but without all the extra pockets - or they have some that are well hidden. Also shirts that look like regular short-sleeve button-downs, but with breakaway side seems for quick access to a side holstered weapon (all meant to allow LEO to "blend in" on certain assignments I guess?).
I found their stuff to range in price - the pants and shorts I bought cost much less than stuff I could purchase at name-brand stores, and have lasted much longer than anything from them as well. LAPG also sells some much more expensive clothing, some of which will make you double-take on the price. Maybe it is just that good - but I've never ventured up to those areas.
Wait hear me out. I haven't tried jackets or outwear they sell, but they always stock up of decent quality underwear, t-shirts and jeans. Their Levi's last me about 4 years.
REI stocks a number of more-or-less equally high-quality options (http://bit.ly/2orY7C2)
If you're bored of Dockers, I'd suggest grabbing a pair of ABCs from Lululemon, in brown (http://bit.ly/2oAN4qr) and black (http://bit.ly/2mfiYb1)
If you're not sure what you want, other than to browse items of decent quality without getting ripped off, hit up Nordstrom Rack.
https://www.google.com/search?q=high+street+clothing+brands
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7861442
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8971215
I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes. The bankruptcy is probably caused as much by rising standards of living in other countries as it is by the general shift to online ordering.
What you say sounds wrongish... In a fast fashion shop you can try on ten things this week and ten _other_ things next week, and rate of change makes online ordering look slow.
1) Prototype to street was way more than 3 weeks. More like 3 months (still faster than most fashion which makes buys 6 months ahead). Zara is the main large retailer that is actually about 1 month from concept to store.
2) The quality of their men's wear was pretty good for the price.
3) They worked their corporate employees to the bone and paid them 60-70% as much as other retailers for the same job. Girlfriend ended up doubling her pay upon accepting a role with another retailer. And on her last day, they still left her a pile of work that took until 5am to finish...Greedy and unprofessional.
4) Sad to see a whole lot of honest employees lose their jobs. Although the owners of F21 had a big fall coming given the amount of greed and indifference they expressed to employees https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-forever-21-factory-wo...
Mark A. Cohen, the director of retail studies at Columbia Business School, said that he believed fast fashion was as popular as ever, pointing to the success of Zara, but that Forever 21 had expanded far too quickly “without regard to a reasonable outlook. It’s a self-inflicted catastrophe”
For example https://martinroll.com/resources/articles/strategy/the-secre... lists Zara's 1-week supply chain and responsive customer service as Zara's advantages. And Uniqlo similarly has some proprietary fabric technology: https://martinroll.com/resources/articles/strategy/uniqlo-th.... Meanwhile https://martinroll.com/resources/articles/branding/forever21... lists nothing besides their knockoffs being really cheap (and the associated piracy and labor lawsuits).
I don't have time to go through all the other failing stores like American Apparel, Dressbarn, JCPenney, Gap, etc., but the story is probably similar, pointless products with no obvious differentiation. H&M is more interesting, massive chain with CEO/management trying to turn it into something more lean / innovative. It's kind of like Amazon with Whole Foods. The eventual outcome of both is uncertain but so far they're moving along.
Anecdotal: my wife started calling it "Forever Toilet Paper" because the clothes disintegrated so quickly (as opposed to Zara and other fast fashion brands that, while fast to market, still put at least a little work into quality.)
The problem with clothes manufacturing is that there's huge diminished returns - by paying 6 times more you don't get 6 times higher quality. Clothes technology is rather simple.
I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.
I imagine most people don't think about their plastic fabrics being plastic at all, they really don't feel like plastic. So when you see lint balls or bits of lint floating about the house you don't think to yourself "Ah, little bits of plastic going into my lungs". When you empty the lint catcher in a drier and pop it right in the bin, it probably doesn't cross most minds that it's a little bundle of plastic fibers. I like to consider myself pretty well informed on the topic and it wasn't until this year that clothing fibers even crossed my mind.
One morning it occurred to me that I've been flushing microplastics away, which is really terrible...
Catching particles coming from the wash seems like a pretty tough problem. Even if the washing machine could somehow catch these, I can't see consumers (and thus manufacturers) jumping at the chance to clean out dirty soapy goop from a washing machine filter... which I imagine will resemble cleaning out a shower drain trap pretty quickly.
Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.
There's of course significant processing applied to those materials before they're suitable as clothing (cotton obviously needs to be picked, it's not on an animal to begin with; leather needs to be tanned).
Huh? They're obviously optimized for regulating the temperature of the animal they came from. Except for cotton and linen. And they weren't woven. Viscose is pretty comfortable, but it's not a natural fiber. Fiber blends are pretty amazing, too. There's some interesting properties you can get with blends.
To give you an idea how fast FN is, they'll sell then make a product (in that order) so fast that when the customer gets it in the mail, the paint hasn't dried yet.
Quality is not their forte.