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Posted by u/homelessdev 8 years ago
Ask HN: How to survive as a homeless engineer?
TL;DR I'm about to get evicted because I ran out of money and can't seem to land a job. I'm also in a bit of a rush, so i apologize for any grammatical errors.

I have been a web developer / software engineer for 15 years (fullstack, 5 languages).

I am living in Colorado with my wife -- I quit my job In Jan due to issues I had with the way our company was treating customer data. This turned out to be a foolish move as it has proven difficult to find a new job (I had something lined up when I quit, but it fell through).

I did land a contract between then and now, but in order to survive I had about 1.5 months to find a new job and that hasn't happened.

I was 3 days late on my rent this month and now have to appear in court to explain why i haven't paid. I fully expect that to lead to an eviction.

I've never had an issue finding a job prior to this so I'm quite frustrated with myself.

I don't own a good laptop (i use a desktop) and have about $400 to survive on. I've tried upwork but can't drum anything up quick enough / at all. I have multiple interviews lined up but I'm not hopeful at this point. I have things I can sell but I'm not sure how quick I can turn them around. My wife has a job but its only a couple days per week so not enough to survive on... she has another interview on monday but no clue how it will turn out of course. We own a car and are currently planning on a shelter (car is second plan).

The questions I have for HN are: what are my best options for survival? any pro tips on how to live on the streets and still land an engineering job?

Thanks in advance guys

mikelevins · 8 years ago
I've been in the kind of spot you're in. I survived it. There's nothing so special about me. You can do it, too.

Every day make a careful, accurate inventory of the things that are under your control and the things that are not. Don't worry about the things that are not under your control; they're none of your business. They're like the weather: they come and go as they will.

Focus on the things that are under your control, on finding out what is the best thing you can do about them. Do it as well as possible.

You can survive the loss of a job. You can survive losing a place to live. You can survive diagnosis of a debilitating, incurable illness. You can survive the loss of the future you thought was ahead of you. I survived all of these, and went on to do things that I judge to be good and worthwhile.

Like I said, there's nothing so special about me. What I can do, you can do.

Some of the other comments have good ideas and good advice. Take those and use them.

Some comments are unhelpful. Forget those.

Remember: I lost my job, my family, my home, my career, and my health. I'm still here. I still do things that I think are good and worthwhile. Some of the best things that have ever happened to me happened after my great catastrophe.

I did it, so you can do it.

I wish you the best of luck.

sandov · 8 years ago
so... stoicism, basically.
araes · 8 years ago
- Public libraries can help with the job search if they offer free internet access

- If you don't mind camping, its an extremely cheap way to live, and a gym / YMCA will help before interviews.

- If you have any friends / family, ask them if you can crash. Have a friend who lived this way for ages.

- If it comes to it, there are often abandoned structures that are reasonable for keeping rain off. Lived in an abandoned office building for a month at one point. That one was really lucky. Had a gym, water, and electricity still!

- Apply, apply, apply. Set a goal. X applications a day, where X is probably 3+. Beat that goal every day.

- Be humble, but not desperate. If its reasonable and will pay bills, worth it.

- Be willing to move. Frankly, CO is really expensive. People scoff at AL (cur. loc.), but it has NASA, Army, most 3 letter agencies, and every gov't contractor known to man. Also, rent is $400-600 and a house can be found for $30000-40000 if you're not picky.

- Sell all your stuff. Flea markets, craigslist, ebay, whatever works.

- If you get a job - save. There is no reason to lose a job and then only have $400.

- Send me a msg (email in profile) if the AL thing sounds reasonable. Used to be in software and a contract mgr., can at least look at whats around. Can't promise, as I left to walk the earth a while back.

greenyoda · 8 years ago
> Send me a msg (email in profile)

FYI, your email is not displayed in your profile. The "email" field in your profile is only visible to the moderators. If you want to publicly share your email address, it needs to be included in the "about" field.

araes · 8 years ago
Thank you. Was not aware. Figured if I included it in the info it was viewable. Changed.
bartozone · 8 years ago
Just to add on to this, Huntsville, AL is the fastest growing market in the United States for technology jobs.

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/facebook/facebook-build-7...

Average rent for a 2br is somewhere around $800, and about 3 hours from Nashville and Atlanta.

oldsklgdfth · 8 years ago
Sidenote: how does a place like AL have so much government money poored into it?
austin_y · 8 years ago
I can't really speak for the rest of the state but, in the late 50's / early 60's, Huntsville's Redstone Arsenal army base ended up as the home of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, as well as many of the post WW2 German rocket scientists. I think that over the decades, the focus on aerospace & defense has simply snowballed as more employers and workers are attracted to the area.
schoen · 8 years ago
Maybe some government decisionmakers decided to spend money there as a deliberate matter of social policy, others saw it as a good place to get certain property and services that the government wanted at low cost, and maybe some legislators were good at getting procurement and grant preferences for their home state?
araes · 8 years ago
Its like gravity. You make a divot in spacetime, and things being to roll downhill toward the divot. Mass collects, attracts other mass, and soon you have a significant planetoid. Leave it alone long enough, you have a star, or in the case of some places, a black hole.

In HSV case, several significant divots. NASA MSFC, Army Materiel Command (Logistics), and the Missile Defense Agency. Caveat on living here, if WWIII happens, we will get nuked.

homelessdev · 8 years ago
Apparently my post has been flagged for some reason. I attempted to post the following last night but kept getting a message that I was posting too fast:

Questions / answers thus far:

there's been a lot of good advice in this thread thus far and a few understandable questions.

I'm going to answer them all here as I can no longer edit the main thread.

first off, great suggestions - some of these were already on my mind (gym, library, camping specifically) and seeing them reinforced via comments is encouraging.

to answer some questions that have been raised:

1. > homeless in the USA? Just cannot understand how this would happen

I'm still trying to piece this together myself. I failed multiple job interviews that were very difficult, ran out of unemployment and am now facing eviction. it takes 6 to 12 months to get into government housing in colorado. unless i get a job before that, its the car, the woods or the street.

> 15 years full stack

I don't get it either.

2. > How resonable is the person/company you rent from to secure an agreement to stay on despite the late rent?

zero reasonable. they filed after 3 days and after i explained that i'm having health issues.

3. > Have you applied for unemployment?

yes, i was approved as my reason for quitting was appropriate, however it ran out quickly as rent is extremely expensive.

4. > Built In Colorado job

I am aware and use it, however yes the process is slow

5. > if he were a brilliant engineer he probably wouldn't be on here with this post

Define brilliant. i certainly haven't claimed to be brilliant, but i do claim to be an excellent employee, extremely fast learner and someone who has never been fired and who has always excelled at their job. I suspect some people think i'm brilliant and others do not.

6. > Why would 3 days late on your rent involve a court date and eviction?

Denver / Colorado is harsh as fuck, apparently.

7. > It'd be really shocking to me if this happened in the US without some prior history/grounds for eviction

then be shocked, my friend. its happening and i've never been evicted in the past nor has my wife. nothin but smooth sailing in my past. this is denver

In all of this i also forgot to mention that I was diagnosed as being bipolar which has helped wreck my life.

8. > How have you been an engineer for 15 years and still: Rent an apartment, Don’t have a few laptops lying around, Don’t have any savings while having no kids

This series of questions assumes that i have made sound financial decisions over the years. i have not. it also assumes i do not have a child whereas I do from a previous marriage. also, it assumes i've never owned a house, i have... doesn't mean i still do.

hluska · 8 years ago
People aren't being very fair to you here and I'm flat out embarrassed by HN.

The most relevant thing is that you're going through something terrible. If I had anything, I'd give it to you, but I've had a very tough year.

The best I can offer is that I'm genuinely sorry. Not only for the way you've been treated here, but for everything that has happened.

I've had some good friends go down the homelessness path and the one thing I've heard from all of them is that, no matter what, you've got to have some sort of fixed address. Over the next few days, you've got two big priorities:

1.) Finding shelter.

2.) Finding someone who will let you get your mail sent to their address.

I wouldn't normally suggest this because it's rather manipulative, but there's a technique called door in the face persuasion. Your first ask is going to be, "Can we stay on your couch for {{period of time you'll stick to}}?" And, if you hear no or see a pained expression on that person's face, your next ask is, "Can I change my address to yours so I can keep getting my mail?"

Vast swaths of North American culture assume you have an address. It's amazing how hard things will get when you no longer have one.

If you're in the Denver area, check out the Denver Voice. It's a street newspaper and street papers are a great way to make money!

gerbilly · 8 years ago
>People aren't being very fair to you here and I'm flat out embarrassed by HN.

Me too, it probably the just world hypothesis at work.

Hang in there and don't listen to the negative talk.

They cannot possibly understand what you are going through, because they aren't going through it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

rpedela · 8 years ago
What about a PO box? Would that work?
liquidise · 8 years ago
I'm a cto in denver by union station and would be happy to treat you to a lunch and chat with you and give you pointers about how to present your current eng. experience. The denver job market is a fickle one, with some astoundingly poor hiring practices. I can try and help you with navigating those and i also know a few companies around who are actively seeking skilled engineers.

Feel free to reach out and we can do lunch sometime. you can get to me via: ben at meetmindful.com

tomjen3 · 8 years ago
Any chance you could move out of the state? If you have 15 years experience then the valley or Texas would be a better way. Granted 400 usd doesn't net you a shoebox, but if nothing else sleeping in a car in California is a lot nicer than in colorado and it should put you closer to the jobs.
protonimitate · 8 years ago
I'm a little late to the post but wanted to add - if your car is eligible look into signing up for uber/lyft. Also look into task rabbit/wag or their equivalents if you can. Won't be a ton of money, but at least with uber/lyft you can be up and driving within two weeks with the option to 'cash out' each day's earnings (overnight transfer to your bank account).

The flexible hours are great to work around interviews and you can make enough to feed yourself and find a place to stay.

Good luck.

chrshawkes · 8 years ago
I feel very bad for you about the bi-polar diagnosis. You can get disability for this though. It's truly debilitating.
gremlinsinc · 8 years ago
Just wanted to chime in, I'm in Utah and can totally relate. (My car will be repo'd next friday if I don't have enough, and we're struggling w/ eviction possibilities too.

For me, I had an employer not pay me 2 months of wages.. 14k. The CEO is a corrupt scam-artist, and me and all other devs/ex employees have filed wage claims, but he went to jail for check fraud, and I'm assuming he's poor too, possibly a drug abuser according to one dev, so yeah--I'm probably never seeing the 15k I'm owed :( ...

It's been a real struggle, the depression has made it so for about 2 weeks I couldn't get out of my chair, I just felt if I move it would be to jump off a roof or something. It gets better though (i think)...

My saving grace is reddit.com/forhire -- 90% of my freelance clients have come from there, it's a great resource. I just got 2 clients this week, so hopefully they pay and I can knock out their things fast enough to build up my security net a bit.

My advice look at the for hire posts for devs, find the one that sticks out the most, copy their layout, replace the content with your details, and post it.

Do this once per week -- Monday at 7am eastern seems to be best / most trafficked time according to a reddit stat's site I checked out.

Then just keep posting other places too, and following up. Hopefully you find something. I know how hard it is though, good luck!

partycoder · 8 years ago
The subreddit link is www.reddit.com/r/forhire
gremlinsinc · 8 years ago
I've also got a multi-reddit for jobs, careers, and freelance: https://www.reddit.com/user/zvive/m/jobs_and_freelance/
auslegung · 8 years ago
This sucks! I'm so sorry to hear man. I've spent a lot of time with people who are homeless, which has caused me to think about this very question though I haven't had to put any of this into practice so grain of salt.

- Get a membership to a cheap gym so you can use their shower (and potentially wifi) if the shelter doesn't work out. In many areas it's possible to get a membership for $10-20/month. Clean your clothes in the shower with you.

- Try really hard not to feel desperate during interviews. We make worse decisions when desperate. Easier said than done :(

- You may need to buy a laptop, which will suck, but hopefully you can find something good enough and very cheap on Craigslist? If you can't get a laptop, consider public library or internet cafes (if those exist there).

- Food is going to be tough. Canned beans will become a close friend. Also canned soups/stews. Peanut butter, cheap produce. You may be able to find edible plants nearby. Free samples at grocery stores? Bulk sunflower seeds are cheap. Lifted most of these food ideas from a thread on reddit btw.

platinumrad · 8 years ago
I'm not convinced that OP needs a laptop but a $100-150 old Thinkpad or low end Chromebook will get you pretty far these days.
Something1234 · 8 years ago
A chromebook is not good. A cheap t410 or t400 would be best.
bhnmmhmd · 8 years ago
> Lifted most of these food ideas from a thread on reddit btw.

Do you remember which thread it was?

lozf · 8 years ago
I'm not GP, but there are often good suggestions on /r/EatCheapAndHealthy [0] ... also, I'd bookmarked this response from the SA forum [1]

Of course, lots of these suggestions assume that a reasonably equipped kitchen and storage is available, which may limit OPs options. Hope it helps anyway.

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/EatCheapAndHealthy/

[1]: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=34...

partycoder · 8 years ago
You can also do your laundry in a self-service laundromat. Usually just a few cents plus the detergent.
code_duck · 8 years ago
They tend to be $1 for the smallest and up to $7.50 for the largest machines. What I'd consider a normal load at home costs about $3. Then, dryers are .25 cents for 5-10 minutes, so it's usually $.50-1 per armful of clothes. That means it can easily cost $15 to do a couple's weekly laundry including sheets and towels, plus consumables.

Also, you have to get to the laundromat and spend over an hour there. Not a huge expense, but not really a few cents. On the positive side the best laundromats I've found supply WiFi, multi-game arcade emulators and free coffee.

Deleted Comment

sitzkrieg · 8 years ago
I'm in Colorado and I have a laptop I'd be willing to give to you (its a little older - 2011 but works fine and has a fresh linux install on it) if you would like
wombatpm · 8 years ago
Shit does happen. I've been there. #1 get some sort of income coming in. Keep looking for an engineering position, but find another job that gets you some $ but leaves your days free for interviews and phone calls. It would suck to give up a 4 hr shift for a BS screening interview. And at this point it does not matter what you choose. You are not looking for your one true forever job. You are looking to exchange your time for money.

Target, Home Depot are hiring. Consider 2nd shift and third shift type work. It sucks but it leaves your days open for interviews during normal business hours. Gas Station/Convenience stores are always looking for people to work the graveyard shift.

Warehouse/logistics distribution centers are ALWAYS looking for 2nd shift workers. If you can read and pass a drug test you can be hired. Double points if you are actually legal to work in the United States. Usually there will be a staffing agency who does the actual hiring.

I once worked for a business interiors company. We installed cubicles and such for businesses. The work all had to happen after hours. Paid pretty good too. Since you are in Denver that may be an option.

Consider too grocery store/bakery. Access to food that is still fine but can't be sold is a great way to stretch your dollars.

As to your engineering job search. Please tell me you are not doing everything yourself. Get IT staffing recruiters working for you! You are a easy candidate. An IT worker with skills and experience who can start TODAY! Don't be picky! If you can land ANY sort of professional work, you can stabilize your life and keep looking for that Forever job.

seorphates · 8 years ago
Well, it is summer, so there's that. Your compute situation is unfortunate but your rental situation is surprising. Three days, court, eviction? I was always under the impression that there were some number of weeks involved with a legal eviction having some process before the sheriff can come knocking. Clearly I'm mistaken and/or there's a longer story there.

You have to keep the faith and cannot allow yourself to spiral out. Find grit. It is frustrating but you're going to have to temper that. You seem to be doing the right things so do keep on keeping on. If homelessness is truly a risk then you and your spouse will need to dig deep, reach out to friends and family if possible, identify any root that you have and cling to it. Maybe that's just each other but hold onto it regardless. You're already taking inventory so you're already planning and adapting. Camping seems like a good suggestion. Reach out to some agencies if you haven't already. The more people working your case the better your chances will be. RH got my foot in the door after a (not so) nice five month shutout that started early in Sep. 2001 when myriad opportunities locked down tight literally overnight. I was at the end of a nice, well earned six week vacation from tech after our startup shut down. Just lying around. I regretted that little timeout for the next few months, to say the least. The money was about done and stress was running pretty high for a small family. You'll pull out, man, keep your chin up, your eyes peeled and don't balk if an offer comes up short. Find a comfort zone and shore up. You'll need a way to keep your comms open, for sure. I think that's all I've got. Good luck and god speed.