The article doesn't say this explicitly, but I would guess the majority of the remaining Windows 10 population is not stubborn users that refuse to update, it's people who just can't because of the Windows 11 hardware requirements. I can't update my desktop without replacing the motherboard and CPU and I just don't want to to spend the time and money on that anytime soon. The computer works fine.
>, it's people who just can't because of the Windows 11 hardware requirements. I can't update my desktop without replacing the motherboard and CPU
As workarounds for TPM requirement, one can either:
- open a Command Prompt window during the Windows installer and run regedit (various Youtube vids cover it)
- use Rufus to create a boot USB from a Windows ISO that bypasses TPM (which does the same regedit hack behind-the-scenes by conveniently embedding it in an install script "\sources\$OEM$\$$\Panther\unattend.xml")
That's how I got Windows 11 installed on a very old 2009 computer. I had to upgrade a friend's computer to Win 11 because the upcoming TurboTax 2025 requires it and there's no need to buy a new computer just to satisfy Microsoft.
>And that may break with any update.
Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because:
"Windows 11 TPM hack _might_ be broken in the future but _maybe_never_ " -- better than -- "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken"
Aside from lack of security updates and slowly declining application support is there any other type of "broken" that we should be worried about? They seem like a lower risk than a Windows update taking out the entire system.
Yeah, I've got a desktop in the same condition. Works great still, probably has 3 or 4 years of life left depending on various factors. The motherboard and CPU are fine for a lot of day-to-day life but don't meet Windows 11 requirements. Motherboard and CPU replacement is my personal "ship of Theseus" line for "no longer the same computer" and a surgery I personally don't want to do.
I'm thinking I'll probably repave it with Bazzite or something like it. But so far I keep procrastinating that as it stopped being my daily workhorse. It's funny that when I bought that desktop Microsoft was still in the "Windows 10 will last the lifetime of your device" marketing pitch. Such a fascinating broken promise that they could have kept in multiple ways. It sounds like they may let the market talk them into the awful Windows XP life support version of it where they may be offering extended security support for years to come.
I don't think the response of "Just run these commands during install" is very useful.
Unless you are personally prepared to go round to the homes of people who have had their computer for a decade, don't understand command lines, and just use their long-running PC to surf the net and edit the occasional document, it doesn't actually solve anything.
They need DRM thing ASAP. Next step would be to auto-fail every device without hardware TPM module (including Win11 with bypassed TPM requirement). "This software wont run on this PC" "this movie won't play" etc
I'm aware of zero DRMs that use TPM, despite being a DRM boogeyman for over a decade. Meanwhile there are plenty of actual DRMs that use HDCP and SGX and there's not a peep about those technologies. Moreover the war on DRM is basically over, for both sides. Smart TVs and streaming boxes (eg. fire TV stick) are ubiquitous enough that basically everyone uses those devices for playback, rather than bothering with the hassle of plugging in their laptop and dealing with the fickle DRM experience on PCs. For the tiny minority that wants to watch on their PCs, 4K rips are ubiquitous enough that nobody bothers watching the official DRM encumbered version.
For me, I'll be replacing Windows with Linux on any machine that can't run Windows 11 in a supported fashion.
I honestly thought Microsoft would blink on this but I guess their leadership believes everyone is going to run out and buy an entirely new computer just to run Windows 11. My older parents (for example) aren't going to throw away their perfectly functional desktops/laptops and will instead continue to use Windows 10 with the attendant security risks (they won't pay $30 for security updates) unless I convince them to switch to Linux.
However it is possible for the more technically minded without too much effort with an adapted "unattend.xml" file during setup. This skips TPM requirements account setup and a number of other annoyances.
This is exactly it, and forget about desktops, laptops are not upgradeable at all. Hardware from 10 years ago is still very capable. Windows 10 will be around for awhile.
"Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft development executive, said in a conference speech this week that Windows 10 would be the "last version" of the dominant desktop software.
His comments were echoed by Microsoft which said it would update Windows in future in an "ongoing manner".
Instead of new stand-alone versions, Windows 10 would be improved in regular instalments, the firm said.
[...]
In a statement, Microsoft said Mr Nixon's comments reflected a change in the way that it made its software.
"Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner," it said, adding that it expected there to be a "long future" for Windows.
'No Windows 11'
The company said it had yet to decide on what to call the operating system beyond Windows 10.
"There will be no Windows 11," warned Steve Kleynhans, a research vice-president at analyst firm Gartner who monitors Microsoft."
>Perhaps Microsoft should never have advertised that Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows, and there won't be a Windows 11; see for example
It really wasn't. Basically all the claims of "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows" traces back to that quote, but that was basically an offhand comment by a low to mid level salesperson (think account "executive"), and was not substantiated by other communications from microsoft, contrary to what your article claims. "ongoing manner" doesn't mean "forever". Microsoft also had clearly outlined lifecycle policies that certainly did not promise forever support.
I think it's more likely that the devrel guy who made that remark was just being overly enthusiastic about the OS getting feature updates over time. For some computers, that policy meant that they didn't even get the promised 10-year support duration, as the footnote on that page mentions:
> Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space).
In Germany, people took this marketing very seriously - and that is why an insane amount of people there are furious about Microsoft's broken promise and the cancellation of support for Windows 10.
My Windows 10 updates had been failing for the past 6 months. When shutting down my PC I'd get the notification to "update and shut down", but the update would routinely fail. I thought the outstanding updates were the reason I wasn't given an option to update in place to Windows 11, but that was actually because my i7 7700k isn't officially supported. I ended up needing to create a Windows 11 iso that doesn't enforce hardware requirements with Rufus [0]. I was building a new gaming rig in tandem, so I reformatted the lone remaining SSD on the machine and left the new windows install unactivated as I plan to give it to a neighbor or family friend who can be tasked with buying a copy of windows. But this means I was left without any free Windows 10 -> 11 upgrade and had to buy a new license for the new rig. I didn't try to do anything other than browse the internet on the unsupported hardware, but things seem fine.
So far Windows 11 on the new rig has been very smooth/stable and I can't think of any issues I've had after 2 weeks of gaming and other typical use. But the amount of internet-driven widgets that ultimately are a medium for ads is frustrating.
I remember there is an obscure setting in the registry to disable the automatic upgrade on shutdown. (I had not used it in a long time, so I forgot the details.)
Linux has gotten pretty good lately. I wish it was better at running the game i want but other than that it's even better than macos in a lot of regards.
As a PC enthusiast, I can't remember a time when PC upgrades were less necessary than nowadays.
For the average user and even semi-enthusiast, 5+yo hardware with Win10 works just fine. I just upgraded last year, but it was probably the longest stretch I've gone between new PC's and even then it was as much FOMO as it was necessity.
Yeah, my Linux desktop PC is five years old and definitely wasn't cutting edge when I built it, and I can't see any reason to upgrade it. I just put a new CPU/MB/RAM in my 9-year-old FreeBSD system, only because it was starting to act flaky under heavy load converting video. But horsepower-wise it still had plenty for normal use.
I've even say that midrange hardware from the entire i5 era, even from 2011 would still be just fine for most users if you're just doing normal computing.
Most of my gaming PC is from 2017. I have upgraded the GPU and CPU once each (thanks AMD for putting out new generations of AM4-socket CPUs), and expect the current build to last for another 3-5 years.
Windows 11 has many GUI failures. In my work I have to do screenshots: the Windows+Shift+S combo takes a noticeable time to come up, and when taking screenshots it doesn’t always bring the image to the foreground. I have had to wait as long as five or more seconds when on Teams calls for it to come up.
Also depending upon some variable, there are two different slow image editors that can display the image when you click on it. They work differently also!
In contrast the W10 experience worked much faster and more predictably.
some apps, when allowed to run in the background, cause a multi-second delay in global hotkeys. this happened on 10 too but 11 pushes way more apps by default so it's more likely to hit. you can hunt down the culprit and remove its permission to run in the background or just deny them all (I've yet to experience a negative consequence from that)
I have Windows 11 on my Asus laptop - I've never seen an ad (except on some web pages my adblocker doesn't catch) - where are all these Win 11 users seeing all these ads?
My desktop still dual boots windows 10 and ubuntu... 11 is acceptable compared to late 10, but it's a chore that will result in changes, and no benefits to me.
I might just go full linux, but 2-4 times a year this would make some friends sad when I can't play the crazy invasive anti-cheat games.
Readit News
Many of the security features on Windows 11 that require these hardware changes, are already available on Windows 10 as optional.
The reasoning is that they shouldn't be turned off, and this is a way to force OEMs to actually provide the hardware on their motherboards.
What it isn't said is that PC sales have been down for a while and Covid was kind of the exception due to the way everyone needed to work from home.
Both Intel and AMD CPUs have fTPMs (ie. inside the CPU) since 2020 at the latest. There's no additional hardware that's needed from OEMs.
As workarounds for TPM requirement, one can either:
- open a Command Prompt window during the Windows installer and run regedit (various Youtube vids cover it)
- use Rufus to create a boot USB from a Windows ISO that bypasses TPM (which does the same regedit hack behind-the-scenes by conveniently embedding it in an install script "\sources\$OEM$\$$\Panther\unattend.xml")
That's how I got Windows 11 installed on a very old 2009 computer. I had to upgrade a friend's computer to Win 11 because the upcoming TurboTax 2025 requires it and there's no need to buy a new computer just to satisfy Microsoft.
>And that may break with any update.
Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because:
"Windows 11 TPM hack _might_ be broken in the future but _maybe_never_ " -- better than -- "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken"
> Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because: ...
- there are 3 year esm updates - Linux based os that are nowadays more stable than windows
Aside from lack of security updates and slowly declining application support is there any other type of "broken" that we should be worried about? They seem like a lower risk than a Windows update taking out the entire system.
Just use the ISO and Rufus.
Make me lose respect even more for Microsoft, to think of all the wasted resources and money people thought they needed to because of “requirements”
One of the things I loved about being on macOS was how boring it was to upgrade - at least until you waited for the .1 update.
Windows upgrades feel less like upgrades and more like full migrations.
I'm thinking I'll probably repave it with Bazzite or something like it. But so far I keep procrastinating that as it stopped being my daily workhorse. It's funny that when I bought that desktop Microsoft was still in the "Windows 10 will last the lifetime of your device" marketing pitch. Such a fascinating broken promise that they could have kept in multiple ways. It sounds like they may let the market talk them into the awful Windows XP life support version of it where they may be offering extended security support for years to come.
Unless you are personally prepared to go round to the homes of people who have had their computer for a decade, don't understand command lines, and just use their long-running PC to surf the net and edit the occasional document, it doesn't actually solve anything.
But they still work and honestly, I don't see much downside to running them without any updates for a while.
Eventually I'll replace them and maybe they will get win 11 or 12. Or Linux as that's what everything else is already running.
I'm aware of zero DRMs that use TPM, despite being a DRM boogeyman for over a decade. Meanwhile there are plenty of actual DRMs that use HDCP and SGX and there's not a peep about those technologies. Moreover the war on DRM is basically over, for both sides. Smart TVs and streaming boxes (eg. fire TV stick) are ubiquitous enough that basically everyone uses those devices for playback, rather than bothering with the hassle of plugging in their laptop and dealing with the fickle DRM experience on PCs. For the tiny minority that wants to watch on their PCs, 4K rips are ubiquitous enough that nobody bothers watching the official DRM encumbered version.
I honestly thought Microsoft would blink on this but I guess their leadership believes everyone is going to run out and buy an entirely new computer just to run Windows 11. My older parents (for example) aren't going to throw away their perfectly functional desktops/laptops and will instead continue to use Windows 10 with the attendant security risks (they won't pay $30 for security updates) unless I convince them to switch to Linux.
However it is possible for the more technically minded without too much effort with an adapted "unattend.xml" file during setup. This skips TPM requirements account setup and a number of other annoyances.
See: https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
If you take the effort to do this subsequent installations will be a walk in the park.
> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
"Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft development executive, said in a conference speech this week that Windows 10 would be the "last version" of the dominant desktop software.
His comments were echoed by Microsoft which said it would update Windows in future in an "ongoing manner".
Instead of new stand-alone versions, Windows 10 would be improved in regular instalments, the firm said.
[...]
In a statement, Microsoft said Mr Nixon's comments reflected a change in the way that it made its software.
"Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner," it said, adding that it expected there to be a "long future" for Windows.
'No Windows 11'
The company said it had yet to decide on what to call the operating system beyond Windows 10.
"There will be no Windows 11," warned Steve Kleynhans, a research vice-president at analyst firm Gartner who monitors Microsoft."
EDIT: Another article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsof...
It really wasn't. Basically all the claims of "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows" traces back to that quote, but that was basically an offhand comment by a low to mid level salesperson (think account "executive"), and was not substantiated by other communications from microsoft, contrary to what your article claims. "ongoing manner" doesn't mean "forever". Microsoft also had clearly outlined lifecycle policies that certainly did not promise forever support.
I think it's more likely that the devrel guy who made that remark was just being overly enthusiastic about the OS getting feature updates over time. For some computers, that policy meant that they didn't even get the promised 10-year support duration, as the footnote on that page mentions:
> Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space).
In Germany, people took this marketing very seriously - and that is why an insane amount of people there are furious about Microsoft's broken promise and the cancellation of support for Windows 10.
So far Windows 11 on the new rig has been very smooth/stable and I can't think of any issues I've had after 2 weeks of gaming and other typical use. But the amount of internet-driven widgets that ultimately are a medium for ads is frustrating.
[0] https://github.com/pbatard/rufus
Look for support at https://endof10.org/
Check it out if you're curious and pass it along. It's some things I wish I knew when I started as a kid.
For the average user and even semi-enthusiast, 5+yo hardware with Win10 works just fine. I just upgraded last year, but it was probably the longest stretch I've gone between new PC's and even then it was as much FOMO as it was necessity.
Also depending upon some variable, there are two different slow image editors that can display the image when you click on it. They work differently also!
In contrast the W10 experience worked much faster and more predictably.
I might just go full linux, but 2-4 times a year this would make some friends sad when I can't play the crazy invasive anti-cheat games.