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crmd · 4 months ago
One of my favorite things here in New York City is how Con Ed gets approval to pass infrastructure upgrade costs directly to consumers, but at the end of the financing period the asset is mysteriously owned by their board of directors, not the public who paid for it.
pjc50 · 4 months ago
Point of information: it's not owned by the directors, it's owned by the investors, the shareholders, just like every other private company.

It's still a weird sanctioned monopoly. More places should get over their fear of public ownership.

raxxorraxor · 4 months ago
Public ownership can be extremely detrimental, I think it is even worse than state ownership by a few margins. Especially for setting long term goals required for infrastructure. There are investors for that as well, but they are rare and an exception.

I evade working directly for publicly traded companies like hell or let myself be paid very, very generously. Most often your time will be limited in the first place. Better to be employed as a freelancer in that case.

SoftTalker · 4 months ago
If a private company builds infrastructure with their profits, should it be owned by the customers "who paid for it"?
8fingerlouie · 4 months ago
My local electricity infrastructure provider is a private company, with the twist that all residents within their area are also automatically shareholders.

They operate "for profit", but profits are distributed amongst shareholders in the form of reduced bills, ie last year we didn't get bills for electricity transport for december, and the year before that there were no bills from august through december.

The "for profit" part pays infrastructure upgrades, so some years we pay the normal prices if there is infrastructure work being done, which in the end benefits all shareholders, meaning me (and other users).

skort · 4 months ago
Why are we letting private companies own public infrastructure?
guerrilla · 4 months ago
Yes, of course it should be. You point out of of theain flaws in our system. Those who actually produce things and pay for them never get any ownership. They remain disadvantaged dispite their contributions.
jayd16 · 4 months ago
If you have a publicly supported monopoly you shouldn't have a private company.
bichiliad · 4 months ago
They are given a de facto monopoly. It’s weird that a private company is building and owning public utilities, but if they’re going to be granted a monopoly, then it’s not unreasonable for that privilege to come at a price.
crmd · 4 months ago
It’s not paid for “with their profits”, it’s a passthru charge directly onto customers’ monthly bills.

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anigbrowl · 4 months ago
Yes
kingkawn · 4 months ago
Yes
jncfhnb · 4 months ago
Most of these things are really liabilities. You have to maintain these things.
delfinom · 4 months ago
The problem is, in the last few years NYC and NYS have mandated all kinds of green energy goals. One of the biggest one that is causing a fuck ton of concern and spending is "no more new gas cars after 2035". Well guess what that means! _infrastructure_ that someone has to pay for and the mandates are unfunded by the state. The city and state have also been pushing various schemes to ban decrease natural gas installations as well, resulting in _surprise_ more electric for heating and cooking.

The other problem we have is moronic NIMBY and environmentalist behavior that led to our only nuclear power plant shutting down and a second one never being allowed to go online at all. The entire Long Island region is still on the hook financially to pay for vetoing a previously approved and built nuclear power plant decades ago. This leads to NY to now depend on imported electricity from other states and Canada at increased rates. And it's only going to get more expensive as datacenters eat up cheap electricity from the same sources.

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sidewndr46 · 4 months ago
Isn't it mandated that they do that by the state? The gas companies where I live work this way.
BrtByte · 4 months ago
And good luck getting transparency on those asset transfers or executive benefits. It's all buried in regulatory filings that nobody reads except lawyers and lobbyists
s1artibartfast · 4 months ago
Funny how the chef passes his costs on to me, but at the end of the day he owns the restaurant. What Injustice!

If people don't like paying a private entity for a goods or service, the solution is to make it yourself, not complain. Tons of cities, counties, and states do just that

dghlsakjg · 4 months ago
Does the chef's menu and pricing get approved by a state regulator and prevent you from eating anything but that restaurant's food while they operate on land they don't own?

The place that your analogy falls is that electric companies are private companies operating legal electricity monopolies where much of the infrastructure in question is placed on right of ways across public and private land not controlled by the operator.

anigbrowl · 4 months ago
I'm sure you're well aware that many states pre-empt county or municipal efforts to develop public utilities like broadband internet or perservice.
metalman · 4 months ago
funny how the largest most modern power utility and grid infrastructur ever built is owned by the citizens who built it, in China, AND they have some realy fancy privatly owned resteraunts.........almost everywhere

then there are things like the town of Lunenburg having it's own power company https://www.townoflunenburg.ca/electric-utility.html

streptomycin · 4 months ago
Here in NJ a lot of people are complaining about electricity price increases. Upon looking into it, it seems that the reason is mostly a combination of population growth, shutting down old power plants, and not building enough new power plants.

Most people seem to blame price gouging from the electricity companies, but the electricity companies seem to be extremely tightly regulated and don't have much wiggle room with how they set their prices.

Haven't heard much talk about actually solving the problem and building more power plants, so probably we're going to see more articles like this in the future.

os2warpman · 4 months ago
>Most people seem to blame price gouging from the electricity companies,

True or false: PSEG's annual profit every year for the last five years at a rate that greatly exceeds inflation while expenses are practically flat.

Their stock symbol is PEG, bee-tee-dubs.

There are very few theories of business and/or economics where profits increase while costs are steady where prices don't increase.

Are they (hold on a sec while I compose myself so I don't type a long string of obscenities) using that money to improve their service and keep rates steady or are they funneling everyone's money into the pockets of their investors and begging the state for free cash to maintain their infrastructure like they're some broke-ass bitches?

streptomycin · 4 months ago
https://www.alphaquery.com/stock/PEG/fundamentals/annual/pro... does not look like the profit margin has increased over the past 5 years.

Also their stock underperformed the S&P 500 over the past 5 years.

I'm not really a finance guy so probably I'm looking at it wrong, but that seems like some pretty bad price gouging.

AnthonyMouse · 4 months ago
> There are very few theories of business and/or economics where profits increase while costs are steady where prices don't increase.

There is a very specific and relevant one: The one in which supply is inelastic. In other words, the one in which it's hard to build new power plants.

When that happens, the cost of operating existing power plants hasn't changed, but demand goes up. In normal economics, demand going up causes the price (and therefore profit) to go up, which in turn attracts more suppliers that increase supply and mitigate the amount the price can increase.

If the supply can't go up then price does. That's econ 101 and it's happening just as it's expected to -- it's simply what happens if you make it hard to increase supply.

eddythompson80 · 4 months ago
Are you referring to PEG stock price or actual profit? Because their profits growth hasn’t really “greatly exceeded” inflation. Here is the last 30 years of profits[1] (you can change it to YoY to see how much their growth over the last 5 years is). They in fact posted a loss in 2021 and under performed 2022. They shot up in 2023 and then down to pre-pandemic levels in 2024.

They are not what I’d call a profitable company. I think their stock is reflecting the AI bubble as plenty of people are speculating on power companies

[1] https://www.roic.ai/quote/PEG/financials

theLegionWithin · 4 months ago
2nd one, the investors. barely exceeding inflation is barely making a profit.
SoftTalker · 4 months ago
Yeah public utilities can rarely price gouge. They have to get government approval for their rates.

If "AI Datacenters" are part of the problem the answer is simple, charge them higer rates, high enough to motivate them to build their own generating capacity.

mike_d · 4 months ago
> They have to get government approval for their rates.

We need laws that prevent government employees from directly or indirectly investing in utilities.

The California Public Employees' Retirement System for example directly holds over 6.4 million shares of PG&E, and an additional 52 million shares via intermediaries.

MangoToupe · 4 months ago
> but the electricity companies seem to be extremely tightly regulated and don't have much wiggle room with how they set their prices.

Sure they do; the wiggle room is referred to as profit

BoredPositron · 4 months ago
I wonder who could built and operate these plants...
supertrope · 4 months ago
The electric company that sends you a bill handles distribution (power lines within your city) not generation (power plants). Sometimes they are vertically integrated owning both generation and distribution. In de-regulated supplier choice states you can switch your generation provider. You cannot switch your distribution provider as each address only has one power line.
gosub100 · 4 months ago
Definitely not the government, given how wasteful and inefficient they are.
walterbell · 4 months ago
"US utilities plot big rise in electricity rates as data centre demand booms", 90 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44523686

"AI Data Centers May Consume More Electricity Than [Residents of] Entire Cities" (2024), 80 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42221756

"Meta data center electricity consumption hits 14,975 GWh" (2024), 60 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41421627

discordance · 4 months ago
Here in Australia, the government is providing subsidies to households for buying batteries (backed by solar).

After paying $15k (after subsidies) for a 40kWh battery, our battery is filled by roof solar and grid provided renewable energy, when needed, at very cheap rates (6c/kWh). I pay $1 a day for grid connectivity. Our total annual energy bill will be approximately $500 for the foreseeable future.

Jedd · 4 months ago
I'm in NSW - curious on what you got, what subsidy/ies you were able to obtain.

I'd previously looked into this and it sounded like a package was required - PVC + battery - whereas I've already got 10kW inverter + 12kW panels, and basically just want something around that size (40kWh).

Street pricing seemed to be around the $9k installed per 10kWh, so a) your subsidy options sounds spectacular - around 60% discount? - and b) payback for me would probably be around 8 years.

But if I switch vendors (Amber I think is what one of my friends is on) I can engage in something analogous to wholesale market activity, 10m bidding / sales, rapidly decrease the projected lifetime of my battery, but potentially be $-positive even through the winter months.

But all that feels like something the power companies here in AU are going to try to try to undercut / tax.

discordance · 4 months ago
5 x SigEnergy SigenStor Bat 8.0 (8kWh/battery) + 12kW inverter (Sigenstor EC) on single phase. The SRES battery rebate (https://cer.gov.au/batteries) was ~30%. Total was a bit under $15k. I already have 16.6kW of panels on the roof from 5 years ago.

There are two providers (Globird and Ovo) I have been researching that provide 2-3 free hours of electricity per day between 11-2pm. That + solar would easily fill the batteries, so that power bill might drop even more.

You should get some quotes from battery/solar installers (no doubt you have heard of solarquotes.com.au). Prices have dropped a lot this year.

nl · 4 months ago
I have a relative with a 30kWh battery on Amber. They spent AU$10k for it after subsidies.

They don't expect to ever pay for electricity again - instead their biggest problem with Amber is what to do when they are overproducing. They got charged $2.50 the other day when they didn't curtail production and had to dump power into the grid!

slaw · 4 months ago
15Kwh Lifepo4 48V 300Ah is less than $2k USD. You are overpaying a lot for installation.
simplisticelk · 4 months ago
This is actually very regressive policy because it only rewards people who 1) own their own home and 2) can afford a significant capital investment. And under current retail rate structures it shifts the burden of maintaining the grid onto those who can't afford to make these investments and who will end up seeing there rates rise unless the cost of grid connectivity is increased.

It's also economically questionable because it's simply much cheaper to build and manage a smaller number of large batteries then thousands of home batteries.

I understand why these schemes are politically attractive; people like to own their own stuff. But there is a very real chance this increases the cost of energy here.

discordance · 4 months ago
I'm curious how you see this potentially increasing the cost of energy? Why can't we do both large systems and small distributed systems?

I see the following benefits:

1. Stabilises the grid

2. Smooths peak demands. Check the Price and Demand graph here: https://www.aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-...

3. Increases supply -> energy prices decrease?

4. Accelerated move away from coal generation and towards renewables.

5. Job creation (solar and storage installation)

Drawbacks:

1. Renters, lower income houses and apartment dwellers don't have access the subsidies

2. Exposure to dodgy installers and systems just like we saw with the Australia solar scheme.

zeofig · 4 months ago
That would be cool if I could afford to own a house.
BrtByte · 4 months ago
A great example of what's possible when policy actually aligns with long-term sustainability goals
denkmoon · 4 months ago
How does the cheap rates work? You get subsidised grid rates because of the batteries?
Jedd · 4 months ago
In Australia it's common to have Time of Usage (ToU) billing.

Figures depend on provider and plan, but sometimes cheap (as per parent's 6c / kWh), but during the midday to 6pm range it may be up to 60c.

So, grid rates aren't subsidised, but having a storage medium means you can arbitrage power quite easily.

nxm · 4 months ago
For context: $0.18/kWh in US vs. $0.32/kWh in France and $0.36/kWh Germany. The administration is making an attempt to address the issue of every growing demand for more electricity and remove barriers for additional power to come on-line. "To compete globally, we must expand energy production and reduce energy costs for American families and businesses." https://www.energy.gov/articles/secretary-wright-acts-unleas...
magicalist · 4 months ago
> The administration is making an attempt to address the issue of every growing demand for more electricity and remove barriers for additional power to come on-line

By cancelling and stalling solar and wind projects while propping up coal of all things? That makes no sense.

privatelypublic · 4 months ago
Look at the biggest products of the areas around Washington DC. You'll find coal, more coal, and "things we found while mining coal"
know-how · 4 months ago
Solar and wind projects are not a panacea. They consume minerals and fossil fuels at a rate that the church of climatology never discuss, and actively surpress.
apparent · 4 months ago
I know they're removing subsidies for solar and wind, but are they going beyond that? Leveling the playing field (and finally admitting that intermittent sources require batteries in order to be compared to true base load alternatives) seems like a rational thing to do.
jijijijij · 4 months ago
Some states have vastly higher energy costs, tho, don't they? Bit weird to compare the whole US to selected European countries, which represent completely different energy strategies and subsidy policies, while also being heavily affected by the war in Ukraine.
thehappypm · 4 months ago
Yeah, new england for example has high energy costs because of 1) a lack of local energy sources and 2) reluctance to build new gas pipelines.
kgwgk · 4 months ago
> selected European countries

The two largest in the EU by population (20% and 15%) and GDP (24% and 16%).

fred_is_fred · 4 months ago
It's $0.11 kWh here and we have plenty of renewables and a growing population. OTOH I have city owned utilities and not a public company.
dyauspitr · 4 months ago
For comparisons sake the average is $0.076/kWh in China and $0.074/kWh in India.
wil421 · 4 months ago
I pay $0.0825/kWh in the Southern US.
s1artibartfast · 4 months ago
Here in California I'm paying close to 0.60/kwh. Throw a rock across the border to Nevada and I'm paying 0.10/kwh
nobody9999 · 4 months ago
>For context: $0.18/kWh in US vs. $0.32/kWh in France and $0.36/kWh Germany.

That's as may be, but my electricity bill is 1/3 for kwhs of electrcity, and 2/3 for "delivering" said power.

As such, it seems like France and Germany may have an advantage there, no?

fy20 · 4 months ago
I'm in another European country. Here it's combined into the final kWh price rather than a separate line item. 7c/kWh for transmission fees.

The grid is owned and managed by a government entity, so the price is set by them with parliament oversight. Last year they had to reduce the price (from 10c/kWh), as they found out they'd been overcharging people for a few years and had a few hundred million surplus of revenue.

And yes they are investing quite a lot to modernise the equipment and put high voltage powelines underground (lots of forests here). My country has a population density comparable to Texas.

phtrivier · 4 months ago
I have my last electricity bill, from France, something that's indexed on the "public price" (so it's possible you get extra discount, but I bet it's representative)

Electricity itself is priced at around 0,14 €/kWh (sparing you the 6th significant digits), so roughly $0,16/kWh at current exchange rates and taxes of of 0,034 €/kWh ($0,039/kWh).

Let's round it to up to $0.17/kWh, which is surprisingly close to your number.

The additional taxes are a "flat" fee of 1,8 €/month (2 $/month),

Then there is the registration itself, with sits at about $15 / month. (I can challenge myself to getting bills where the registration and taxes are bigger than the actual current.)

I'm not sure how I would get a nice number in "€/kWh", though ?

breckenedge · 4 months ago
It’s the same for me in Texas, delivery is easily 2/3 of my bill and fluctuates wildly. It’s not part of my quoted rate either, just tacked on.
ranguna · 4 months ago
0.16€/kWh in a western European country. 0.60$/kWh in California.
jauntywundrkind · 4 months ago
[flagged]
thelastgallon · 4 months ago
I think the administration's energy density should be extended for all things. Lets take transportation: Can't use federal lands, waterways, airspace or highways unless the airplanes, trains, ships, trucks and cars are powered by the highest energy density (nuclear).

Also, anything that uses airwaves: So, nuclear powered phones, watches, airtags.

This would be the biggest breakthrough for humanity. We have nuclear powered submarines but miniaturization of nuclear stalled since then.

jijijijij · 4 months ago
This. Nobody is free, until everybody got a thermonuclear warhead.

I love the way cars explode in Fallout. I mean, random car crashes have historically been the epitome of excitement, 4k war footage made me pretty indifferent towards bloody windshields and burnt out station wagons. I really think, the intensity of an unexpected fission event projecting its authority through my eyelids could make me feel something again.

nickff · 4 months ago
Nuclear submarines were developed at about the same time as civil nuclear power plants (and you could actually argue they were developed earlier or reached maturity earlier). Nuclear submarine power was a sort of ‘killer app’ for nuclear power, rather than a derivative of civil nuclear power stations.
TheDong · 4 months ago
Most of the things you cite, like phones, cars, airtags, can already be powered just off batteries and the electric grid, so the actual source of the energy is already abstracted away.

A large-scale nuclear plant will be way more efficient than a bunch of mini-plants, so having battery electric cars + nuclear power plants already gives you nuclear powered cars without even having to invent anything new.

We only need to focus on fuel generation (power plants), and the small number of remaining places that don't just take power from the grid (planes, ships, other things that have their own fuel/generator on board).

jauntywundrkind · 4 months ago
Looking forward to the DoT getting in on this. Cars have to go! Busses trains and bikes only! No other mode of transit can be funded, not dense enough!
mrDmrTmrJ · 4 months ago
We control nuclear proliferation by making enriched uranium (U235) very, very hard to acquire.

While I'd love to see more nuclear reactors in our society. The "nuclear everything" argument breaks a core tenant of US national security policy, making U235 very hard to get.

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BobbyTables2 · 4 months ago
I don’t relish the idea of a distracted driver sending text messages while driving a nuclear car.

I bet the crew on the submarines is much more focused on what they are doing…

aussieguy1234 · 4 months ago
Authoritarian rulers favour loyalty over competence, so it makes sense. This means that you will have people in positions who are incompetent and shouldn't be there.
frankohn · 4 months ago
Very sad. The Trump's party should not be called MAGA but MALR, Make America Like Russia. They are doing mighty good progress in that direction.
gritzko · 4 months ago
[flagged]
jauntywundrkind · 4 months ago
The tearing down what this admin dubs the "green new scam" is hugely responsible for this. De-funding & clawing back great investments towards the future, investments that would both power America and fuel our industrial base, drive huge economic growth.

It's not just bad for energy generetion either! China is also building a huge war chest of IP patents. Its incredibly sad to see this un-forced error, this sabotage of America, this destruction of our leadership. To walk back to a fake Great Again idiocracy obsessed only with doing the opposite of the liberals.

idiomat9000 · 4 months ago
Meanwhile in china they set factories on fire because they are not paying the wages. Chinas graphs are as dubious as the sovjet unions and they have used up the working population that drove these economic miracles.

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billy99k · 4 months ago
If you want to remove all regulations, you too can have impressive growth.

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gosub100 · 4 months ago
Meanwhile California is shutting down dams and nuclear plants.
pstuart · 4 months ago
The last shutdown of a reactor in CA was 2013 -- https://www.eia.gov/nuclear/reactors/shutdown/ Diablo Canyon got a reprieve and has 5 more years to go.

Dam removals have multiple factors behind them, from pure economics (cheaper to remove than repair) to environmental -- restoring fisheries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dam_removals_in_Califo...

We need all the non-carbon power we can get, and it's a shame to remove existing power sources but as electric power is eminently fungible, that loss can be mitigated with other sources.

Meanwhile, efforts to modernize the US electric grid have been stalled by Red states that are ideologically opposed to renewable power. There's plenty of potential power to be generated that is hamstrung by that resistance (pun intended).

Caligatio · 4 months ago
I can't speak to any particular dam closure but there's a lot more to maintaining dams than one might believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiUOBdEUqjY (Practical Engineering - All Dams Are Temporary)
newyankee · 4 months ago
In an ideal world this should incentivise more people with single family homes and capital to invest in Solar + batteries and even with tariffs I am sure the breakeven time will still be less than 10 years (also after accounting for the fact that utilities will not be paying a lot for your electricity though time of use pricing and batteries may help a bit)
blindriver · 4 months ago
I live in the SF Bay Area. My rates have roughly doubled in about 5-6 years. I'm paying almost $0.50/kWh or more depending on what tier I'm in at the time. PG&E does NOT reward conservation or solar power usage. They say "We aren't make enough money! We need to raise your rates! We need to charge solar users to connect to the grid!" The exact same thing happens with water utility companies, when they first preach water conservation, and then complain they aren't making enough money so they have to raise rates.

PG&E wants to charge solar power users $80+/month just for the privilege of connecting to the grid even if they are fully self-powers through solar, and give new users $0 to return energy back to the grid.

The entire system is a scam, and every politician involved is a corrupt.

khuey · 4 months ago
> PG&E wants to charge solar power users $80+/month just for the privilege of connecting to the grid even if they are fully self-powers through solar

If you're "fully self-powered through solar" just disconnect from the grid.

If you're using the grid as a battery where you feed power into it at 4PM and draw power from it at 4AM, that costs money.

skybrian · 4 months ago
This is because California has so much solar that it can’t use it all during the day:

https://www.gridstatus.io/charts/curtailment?iso=caiso

From here on out, batteries are where it’s at. Overprovisioning solar helps, but the demand isn’t there and they aren’t going to pay much for it. (More utility-scale batteries would increase demand for solar somewhat, for charging them.)

Meanwhile, California needs to maintain and improve the electrical grid to lower the risk of wildfires, but more solar in the wrong places doesn’t help much with that.

dehrmann · 4 months ago
PG&E is passing the cost of wildfire upgrades to customers. I'm not sure if they're hitting risky areas harder than low-risk areas, but my bill makes it look like I'm subsidizing people's cabins.
TrueSlacker0 · 4 months ago
I'm sitting here in Texas paying apg&e an average rate last month of .141. And I thought that was high because a while back it was .11. And its probably mostly all renewable energy since we have windmills as far as the eye can see all around us and wind that never seems to stop.
renewiltord · 4 months ago
You can disconnect from the grid but just like having a lawyer on retainer cost something so does having the power company on retainer.

It's why cloud servers cost so much more than your own on-prem solution, and on-demand offices more than your own.

And if you want an engineer on call it's gonna cost you. If you work in software, think about it, how much would you charge for a job where they could call you anytime and expect you to start work.

Braxton1980 · 4 months ago
You want to connect to a grid then you need to pay a certain percentage for upkeep regardless of the amount of electricity you use.

"The entire system is a scam, and every politician involved is a corrupt."

What an immature over simplification that means nothing. none of the examples you provided are an example of corruption

newyankee · 4 months ago
The only way this might end is few rebellious folks with large enough properties will start going totally off grid. It does not look unrealistic tbh but a lot depends on how tariffs and Solar installation costs in US evolve (expectation is for them to be a lot lower but not happening due to installation red tape and other reasons).

If I was in such a situation where I lived in a Sunny enough place and had my property of such a size I would rather trade 95% uptime for being totally off grid and have some sort of emergency system for the 5% when it may not work.

I am actually surprised that the ultra libertarian and independent folks of Southern USA have not yet realised that they can get truly independent by making their own energy and powering their own vehicle

phil21 · 4 months ago
> PG&E wants to charge solar power users $80+/month just for the privilege of connecting to the grid

Sounds low to me. What would the payment be on a multi-day (week?) capacity battery for your power draw if you financed it over it's useful lifetime?

Relatively wealthy homeowners using the grid as a subsidized battery are going to actually have to pay a proper amount for the privilege or the grid simply breaks.

That said, I am all for people being able to disconnect entirely from the grid if they so choose. But this means literally cutting the wires to your home. I don't agree with places that effectively outlaw this.

But if you want to be grid-tied, then you need to be paying for its upkeep and the amount of "idle" power generation on standby 24x7 in case you end up needing it with zero notice due to the sun not shining or your equipment failing. The only thing you should be saving money on is fuel costs, which is a fraction of the total price per kWh.

Backup power is expensive. The grid being so reliable for so long has made everyone forget this fact it seems.

clickety_clack · 4 months ago
Why would an ideal world have electricity become so expensive that individuals have to construct their own power stations? I have better things to do with my time. I don’t want a society where we are designing incentives such that individuals to have to build and maintain all their own infrastructure.
bevr1337 · 4 months ago
An ideal world doesn't look like land owners building moats.

I work in energy/home automation. I'm burnt out.

mindslight · 4 months ago
What's the target market of your business? I'm doing a DIY solar setup, plus a bunch of liberty-respecting automation, and often lament that there aren't better ways to make such things serviceable by contractors (when I'm gone, etc). It feels like every commercial offering I've seen is for extremely rich people's "dream houses", deploying expensive niche-commercial solutions in a very top-down manner (lots of homeruns of narrow-purpose cables to multiple racks in a centralized control room, etc).
FirmwareBurner · 4 months ago
We don't live in an ideal world though but in a world run by the incentives of the capital/asset owning class.
bboygravity · 4 months ago
Man that's some environmentalist centralist government planner thinking: mess up your energy policy so badly that prices rise like crazy and it starts making sense for people to switch to way more expensive ways to convert energy.

Is this supposed to be positive?

rasz · 4 months ago
Its only more expensive in US, because of the government.
skappapab · 4 months ago
An ideal world the same companies who are heavily benefiting from subsidizing the American people would pay the lion share of this and then some.

Instead, they get to offshore jobs or bring in H1Bs to further their bottom line.

hdgvhicv · 4 months ago
I looked at that, then the conservatives decided to subsidise electricity consumption to great acclaim, and that threw off the ROI and I bought an oil boiler and decided to not bother with rooftop solar as the time for return more than doubled. Thanks Boris, Yu confirmed that the market would be manipulated.
ChrisArchitect · 4 months ago
Related:

Big Tech's A.I. Data Centers Are Driving Up Electricity Bills for Everyone

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44905595

The U.S. grid is so weak, the AI race may be over

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44910562