Some people become friends for life. At least for me, they were the people I became friends with during my formative years. From my teens and up until young adulthood. Looking back, we became friends due to shared interests (movies, books, music), hobbies, and just general chemistry.
Other people, you become friends with due to some shared situation. School, work, place you live, the places you go/frequent, etc. Once that changes (you graduate, switch jobs, etc.), your friendship can change.
And, of course, your other responsibilities will influence how much time you can use on people. Especially children can have a huge impact on that - kids just take up so much time, and combined with work and other things, it is really difficult to prioritize other things. It is not at all uncommon that once people get kids, they disappear for a solid 5-10 years, and will want to catch up again when things calm down.
As young adults, most people have few responsibilities, and impulsivity is high. What I miss about being a young 20-something was how easy and willing everyone were to do stuff. Go on a hike, go watch a movie, go on a pub crawl? Sure, just give me 15 minutes. Book a trip to some other country? Could do that just a couple of weeks ahead.
These days you'll have to check your calendar 3 months in advance to just shoot the shit.
I think the change started when me and my friends started nearing 30 / late 20s. That's when people were really bogged down with work, met their future spouse / partner, and started focusing on self-realization (working out, hobbies, side hustles, whatever), and of course - kids.
Now that most of us are in our late 30s, things are a bit easier. Those that got kids have more spare time, as the kids have grown older. Seniority at work means they aren't giving it all for the sake of promotions. More financial freedom. Things more stable, and people can catch up again.
With that said, some days I really do miss the days of youth.
This is a common sentiment, that your friends during formative years are those that are lasting relationships. I remember hearing a theory that correlated with my learnings: friendships are made stronger by having intense experiences. As a kid, you are constantly learning and doing things for extended periods with friends. You have way more chances to do something new or reckless or whatever. Similarly, many veterans are friends for life with their brothers in arms because, well, they were doing crazy intense stuff together for years.
As an adult, friendships are hard to grow for the same reason. Grabbing dinner with someone is not going to leave the same impression as, say, getting shot at. The adult friendships I have that are close I attribute to:
1. Friend's dad died shortly after we met, and we bonded throughout that time.
2. I went on an impromptu Vegas trip with friend
3. We went through grad school stress together
4. We spent a lot of time together at chess club. Nothing was intense, but frequently seeing this person solidified our relationship. Oh, he was teetering on divorce at one point, it could be that too.
Late late thirties through to mid forties has been the busiest period of my (and my wife's) life.
Work, school, kids sport, plus some occasional activities of our own (absolutely minimal) we had something weekly on every day of the week. Two kids ages ranging from 10 to mid-teen during that span of time.
Only really just coming out of it the last couple of years - mid-late forties. Weekly activities are now more my things.
Had kids very late twenties, so that might be a difference.
> What I miss about being a young 20-something was how easy and willing everyone were to do stuff
Perhaps times have changed or my friends don't actually like me, but in my experience this hasn't been true since I was like 16. People are constantly busy or otherwise unwilling to go out and do stuff together. If it gets worse with age then the outlook is extremely grim...
Here's your answer: your friends formed yourself, and you formed them. No surprise they are like you. Even if you think they are very different from you, that's only because the differences are more pronounced from up close.
I tried to stay spontaneous and being able to do things on a whim. But most of my friends focused on partner/work/kids with the infamous 3 month in advance fully booked calendar.
At some point you have almost no other choice than give up and self-realize as well and become that person as well. Simply because everyone else gave up. I think it is sad
> On a warm July evening, I dove into bed and grabbed my phone, giddy and anxious. As I scrolled through TikTok, attempting to calm my nerves, a Google Calendar notification flashed on the screen: “VIDEO CALL WITH SIMONE.”
> Before I could swipe the reminder away, Simone FaceTimed me.
That makes me want to build a "Tinder" for rebooting relationships: select who of your friends you want to talk to, and after they do the same, the app will schedule a video call, and you'll be connected with... a mystery friend from your past! For people who don't like surprises, if both parties vote to reveal their names, you'll know who you're reconnecting with.
Or if you don't get any matches, the app will connect you to a mental health/relationship councillor...
They already built the app for rebooting relationships. A few times. A lot of the enthusiasm about web2.0 sites like MySpace and Facebook came from the ability to reconnect with people from your past. If they’d kept Facebook what it was in 2007 it would still be a useful tool.
Years ago, I met someone at a large company and they perused a friendship with me. I was always friendly, and I invited them to larger parties because I considered them part of my extended group of friends.
But, they really struggled at life. I moved away, and I never made the effort to keep in touch.
A few years ago they called me to talk. We caught up, and it was clear they still struggled at life. A few phone calls later, they got "stuck" on a topic and wouldn't converse, instead arguing with me when there was no argument to have. I ended the call, and I don't really want to hear from them again. (Basically, they were going off on their opinions about guns and not listening enough to me to know when I was agreeing and when my opinion differed.)
It became clear why they struggle at life, and it's disappointing that they don't have the insight into why they struggle.
Sounds like they reached out to you because they remembered your kindness. Maybe they were hoping for a bit of grounding. You noticed something about why they struggle. Something they clearly don’t see. That insight, offered with care, might actually help them.
It’s not your job to fix anyone, but since you’ve seen the pattern, you’re in a position to say something. You might be the only one who can break through.
I don't like to go into personal details, so I'll offer a high-level summary:
They insist on living in a high-cost-of-living area, but can't hold the kind of job needed to live there. Moving to a lower-cost-of-living area where they can be employed isn't considered.
They don't have insight into who makes a good romantic partner / spouse. (Think of the stereotype who imports a "Russian Bride.")
They get into bar fights, in part because they will talk without listening to others' opinions. (And because they don't understand important differences between US culture and where they immigrated from.)
---
I have a few people in my life who stop listening when they get agitated, so I personally have little patience for changing people. Trying to get these people to listen to reason is a fools' errand, so I no longer try and just end the conversation as quickly as possible.
> never occurred to me that they might think we’re no longer friends.
Me neither and the whole idea seems inconceivable. Unless there was some kind of breakup, why would anyone think that periods of disconnect equals no longer being friends?
> not sure if I’ll do something about it though
Is there anything to do? If someone truly believes you are no longer friends then you are no longer friends. No need to beat a dead horse.
Diverging values I think is why it’s not a bad thing that marriage is being postponed closer to 30 now. Promising to be with someone forever when you don’t even know who you or they are yet is wishful thinking at best and lying at worst.
If we ever find a way to delay puberty without delaying formation of the prefrontal cortex, I think humanity will be in for a better time. You’ll get a few more years of being able to have kids after you know who you are.
The other way is that you make a commitment early and that you mold your personalities together as you grow older. Delaying marriage to “find yourself” is not always a good thing; I forget the exact term used in a very thoughtful essay on this, but it’s something like “my grandmother’s bookshelf”. By the time you’re in your mid-thirties, grandma’s bookshelf that you inherited is so important that anyone who doesn’t love it must not love you. In reality, grandma’s bookshelf is important - but so is building a life with another person, and you can’t let it keep you from that.
It’s not perfect, but nothing is. Life happens whether or not you’re paying attention.
Do people who get married and have children diverge in values at the same rate as unmarried people who live together? Or do they tend to converge rather and align their attitudes to the common interests of the family?
"Who you are" is not a stable thing, nor is it a mystery suddenly revealed at a certain advanced age: it is something you continuously construct and reconstruct all your life. I suspect that marriage and family play a massive role in that ongoing psychological construction rather than being independent states that might be invalidated by some sudden discovery of "who you are."
It was historically more of a family obligation than a promise.
We have made it more about individual choice in the intervening years, so you might see that as a promise, but these days it still isn't so much a promise to stay together, rather a promise with regards to how to deal with division down the road (e.g. promising to split the assets 50/50). Not staying together is the assumption.
~43% of first marriages fail, ~60% of second marriages, ~73% third marriages. Roughly half of all children will see their parents’ marriage end or them separate (per the CDC). Frankly, I think people should date, love, coparent, etc, but not get married.
I stopped speaking with my high-school friends in my 40s. I had realized at some moment that I didn't enjoy most of the discussions that we were having. I still met them and talked to them, thinking that that's still "friendship". But I was wrong and I shouldn't have done it! Not for so long! Since I stopped talking to them, I feel very relieved.
Amazingly, even though this is perfect fodder for a self-absorbed attention-seeking post, it's actually quite good, focusing on the different perspectives people in a relationship have as contact fades
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Other people, you become friends with due to some shared situation. School, work, place you live, the places you go/frequent, etc. Once that changes (you graduate, switch jobs, etc.), your friendship can change.
And, of course, your other responsibilities will influence how much time you can use on people. Especially children can have a huge impact on that - kids just take up so much time, and combined with work and other things, it is really difficult to prioritize other things. It is not at all uncommon that once people get kids, they disappear for a solid 5-10 years, and will want to catch up again when things calm down.
As young adults, most people have few responsibilities, and impulsivity is high. What I miss about being a young 20-something was how easy and willing everyone were to do stuff. Go on a hike, go watch a movie, go on a pub crawl? Sure, just give me 15 minutes. Book a trip to some other country? Could do that just a couple of weeks ahead.
These days you'll have to check your calendar 3 months in advance to just shoot the shit.
I think the change started when me and my friends started nearing 30 / late 20s. That's when people were really bogged down with work, met their future spouse / partner, and started focusing on self-realization (working out, hobbies, side hustles, whatever), and of course - kids.
Now that most of us are in our late 30s, things are a bit easier. Those that got kids have more spare time, as the kids have grown older. Seniority at work means they aren't giving it all for the sake of promotions. More financial freedom. Things more stable, and people can catch up again.
With that said, some days I really do miss the days of youth.
As an adult, friendships are hard to grow for the same reason. Grabbing dinner with someone is not going to leave the same impression as, say, getting shot at. The adult friendships I have that are close I attribute to: 1. Friend's dad died shortly after we met, and we bonded throughout that time. 2. I went on an impromptu Vegas trip with friend 3. We went through grad school stress together 4. We spent a lot of time together at chess club. Nothing was intense, but frequently seeing this person solidified our relationship. Oh, he was teetering on divorce at one point, it could be that too.
Work, school, kids sport, plus some occasional activities of our own (absolutely minimal) we had something weekly on every day of the week. Two kids ages ranging from 10 to mid-teen during that span of time.
Only really just coming out of it the last couple of years - mid-late forties. Weekly activities are now more my things.
Had kids very late twenties, so that might be a difference.
Perhaps times have changed or my friends don't actually like me, but in my experience this hasn't been true since I was like 16. People are constantly busy or otherwise unwilling to go out and do stuff together. If it gets worse with age then the outlook is extremely grim...
Here's your answer: your friends formed yourself, and you formed them. No surprise they are like you. Even if you think they are very different from you, that's only because the differences are more pronounced from up close.
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At some point you have almost no other choice than give up and self-realize as well and become that person as well. Simply because everyone else gave up. I think it is sad
> On a warm July evening, I dove into bed and grabbed my phone, giddy and anxious. As I scrolled through TikTok, attempting to calm my nerves, a Google Calendar notification flashed on the screen: “VIDEO CALL WITH SIMONE.”
> Before I could swipe the reminder away, Simone FaceTimed me.
That makes me want to build a "Tinder" for rebooting relationships: select who of your friends you want to talk to, and after they do the same, the app will schedule a video call, and you'll be connected with... a mystery friend from your past! For people who don't like surprises, if both parties vote to reveal their names, you'll know who you're reconnecting with.
Or if you don't get any matches, the app will connect you to a mental health/relationship councillor...
We have scheduled video calls on our calendar. And after every call, we put notes on the call schedule.
Before the call, we get notified and we confirm if both parties will be available over text message.
But, they really struggled at life. I moved away, and I never made the effort to keep in touch.
A few years ago they called me to talk. We caught up, and it was clear they still struggled at life. A few phone calls later, they got "stuck" on a topic and wouldn't converse, instead arguing with me when there was no argument to have. I ended the call, and I don't really want to hear from them again. (Basically, they were going off on their opinions about guns and not listening enough to me to know when I was agreeing and when my opinion differed.)
It became clear why they struggle at life, and it's disappointing that they don't have the insight into why they struggle.
It’s not your job to fix anyone, but since you’ve seen the pattern, you’re in a position to say something. You might be the only one who can break through.
I doubt it. I tried in the past, but it was clear that they didn't want to listen to reason so I just changed the subject.
They insist on living in a high-cost-of-living area, but can't hold the kind of job needed to live there. Moving to a lower-cost-of-living area where they can be employed isn't considered.
They don't have insight into who makes a good romantic partner / spouse. (Think of the stereotype who imports a "Russian Bride.")
They get into bar fights, in part because they will talk without listening to others' opinions. (And because they don't understand important differences between US culture and where they immigrated from.)
---
I have a few people in my life who stop listening when they get agitated, so I personally have little patience for changing people. Trying to get these people to listen to reason is a fools' errand, so I no longer try and just end the conversation as quickly as possible.
This article made me aware of that, not sure if I’ll do something about it though
Me neither and the whole idea seems inconceivable. Unless there was some kind of breakup, why would anyone think that periods of disconnect equals no longer being friends?
> not sure if I’ll do something about it though
Is there anything to do? If someone truly believes you are no longer friends then you are no longer friends. No need to beat a dead horse.
Lack of mutual effort 4
Diverging values 3
Miscommunication 2.5
Geographic distance 2.5
Emotional disengagement 2
(Since article is lacking a conclusion - or the conclusion is a weird direction, "should I talk to my ex" - I guess I'm not the target demo)
If we ever find a way to delay puberty without delaying formation of the prefrontal cortex, I think humanity will be in for a better time. You’ll get a few more years of being able to have kids after you know who you are.
It’s not perfect, but nothing is. Life happens whether or not you’re paying attention.
"Who you are" is not a stable thing, nor is it a mystery suddenly revealed at a certain advanced age: it is something you continuously construct and reconstruct all your life. I suspect that marriage and family play a massive role in that ongoing psychological construction rather than being independent states that might be invalidated by some sudden discovery of "who you are."
It was historically more of a family obligation than a promise.
We have made it more about individual choice in the intervening years, so you might see that as a promise, but these days it still isn't so much a promise to stay together, rather a promise with regards to how to deal with division down the road (e.g. promising to split the assets 50/50). Not staying together is the assumption.
I think the problem with that is: having kids both induces a lot more learning about who you are—as well as changes who you are.
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