There's a cheaper alternative, if you don't mind some manual setup:
- buy an ethernet -> phone adapter (Grandstream, Cisco, and Poly sell these) and a cheap analog phone.
- get an inexpensive VoIP number[0] and set up the phone adapter to log into the service you set up.
- set up a Google Voice[1] number if you haven't already. When you want to make an outgoing call, use the Google Voice app to initiate a call to your VoIP number[2] -- that way you're technically receiving the call there, so it's cheaper or free, depending on your plan.
[0] CallCentric has a $3/month plan that gives you free incoming calls and e911 service: https://www.callcentric.com/faq/46/529. This works well if you initiate outgoing calls via the Google Voice app.
[1] As of 2023, Google Voice doesn't work directly with Obitalk VoIP service anymore, or with any other VoIP devices :(
[2] if you need to let kids make outgoing calls via Google Voice unattended, set up the Google Voice app on an old iOS device in Guided Access mode and plug it in next to the analog phone. (But make sure they know to make 911 calls using the phone itself, not the GVoice app. I suggest printing a "Emergency: call 911 on this phone" label and putting it on the back of the handset.
Maybe I’m going out on a limb here?… Even this thrifty and most excellent (party on Garth!) 3 to 17 step process might slightly reduce adoption by the target audience: kids.
I guess we’re gonna have to teach those kids to read the fine manual. (I agree with you entirely in this case. Show them easy mode then if they want a challenge they can do hard mode.)
> Why is it that there are always, always, ALWAYS super geniuses like you and bja and others who rush to ACKSHUALLY provide "alternatives" that aren't actually alternatives?
Please avoid fulminating or sneering like this on HN, it's clearly against the guidelines.
Look, people fall into all sorts of categories based on various individual characteristics. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. It sounds like maybe you don't like seeing ideas that aren't best for you?
Let me encourage you to just keep scrolling if someone's idea doesn't fit you personally.
Make note of the privacy policy[1]. Some users may not like the data they collect.
> Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.
Yeah, this was buried under a section about "child users". I don't know how that's legal in a two-party consent state.
> C. Information Related to Child Users (Collected via the Service):
> Voice Audio Data: Audio data transmitted during calls made or received on the Tin Can Device.
Between this, and the civil and possibly regulatory liability of having 911 not necessarily work, this company might end up blowing their runway and more on lawyers.
> This includes the real-time transmission of voice packets necessary for the call to function. If voicemail features are implemented, this includes recorded voicemail greetings and messages.
So maybe it is “collecting” the data only in these limited capacities? (which seem necessary for the thing to function)
It's really frustrating now that for every product/service, we have to go through the privacy policy carefully, especially when they're being written in increasingly generic verbiage. We pay for the product/service upfront or as a subscription, then a subscription for additional features, and on top of all that, agree to sell all our data and souls too. And Tech does all this blindly while gaslighting itself that "it's making the world a better place."
I've set up voip instances, and not liked it, but would be willing to do it again for my kid. I'd not be willing to set them up (and be tech support!) for all of his friends' families. That's the value proposition here, for me.
We've got a group of parents around us who'd likewise like to delay their kids' smartphone access for as long as possible - but if a smartphone (or even a dumbphone with no meaningful parental controls) is the only way for kiddo to make calls, then I know some of them will defect. Selling them all on this kit (or something like it) would keep the agreement intact for a while longer.
Several comments in this thread give "Dropbox is just rsync" vibes. I'm curious how many of the commenters suggesting to DIY understand that having small children means essentially no free time to hack on something like that.
It really isn't. I got my login for dropbox, installed it on some machines, and it was just click upload or download from there. Crwating and using folders was much like on my desktop.
For rsync, a person would have to study it to learn it. They might want to look for potential gotchas in how they configure it, too. The experts at Dropbox already did all that for us, though.
Highly, highly, highly recommend you enable 911 calls by default on all plans -- let parents disable it if they want. Cell phones do this, even without a SIM card. Don't gate safety for $9.99/mo.
Edit: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations." https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service
Also "911 Services: Providers of "interconnected" VoIP services – which allow users generally to make calls to and receive calls from the regular telephone network – do have 911 service obligations" https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voice-over-internet-pro...
I kinda get why they think they don't want to enable this, but when I was a kid I once called 999 (in the UK) as a joke and let me tell you it was only once. My friends and I were there in the room watching films that we shouldn't and the uniformed and kitted-out Constables turned up and gave us an incredibly stern dressing-down about 30 minutes later.
Luckily, I am in the UK where a bunch of 12 year olds who've just watched Scream calling the police about shadows doesn't result in something getting shot, but still - I think I learned something about actions and consequences that day.
What is bloody annoying is that you can't even test 999. When you set up a PBX it would be nice to know that it would work via the obvious way of actually calling it.
Surely it would be possible to create a test version which gets terminated by a computer instead of hassling an operator - you could send DTMF codes or something similar to indicate a test.
I suspect that there is a little more to your story. Probably that the fuzz had some spare capacity at the time and decided to do an educational exercise on you lot - which worked nicely. Nowadays you hear about all sorts of daft 999 calls - there is a TV programme about it.
Now we are moving into the SOGEA era in the UK. That's where we have "glass" phone lines (FTTP) that don't supply power but have jolly fast internets. 2025 is the year that the copper network gets shut down, except that it wont be! Oh and we will all be using VOIP ie SIP n RTP. The final pretense of circuit switching will trot off into the sunset and be bundled behind a green tent and a single shot will be heard.
Way back when, my toddler loved to play with the cordless phone, and just happened to be able to dial 911. a lot. We'd realize a connection was made but not who was on the other end and just hang up. Eventually, 911 called back inquiring why so many hang ups and if someone needed help. I was surprised they took our explanation without dispatching someone to follow up. Maybe that's different now as I know my city has a policy of all calls require a follow up even if it's hours to next day later when they know it's not an emergency
I did this too at the age of 4. Apparently fireman Sam doesn't take phone calls, but the operator was very kind and didn't berate me or my parents for it.
FCC has rules for calling 911, and many state statutes reinforce or extend FCC rules.
Tin Can is probably not bound by these rules, but it looks like a phone and works like a phone. In an emergency where seconds matter, it better not fail anyone.
Enabling 911 calls for all could not only save lives, but also save the company from lawsuits.
Yes! I am not a lawyer, but I know many… In addition to steering clear of legal issues, demonstrating overall decency is the right thing to do. In terms of $, customers have already spent money on the company’s hardware devices.
It's not arbitrary—if you look at your cellphone bill, there's a tax for 911 access. They could probably offer a cheaper plan with just 911, but they can't make it free. But I think $9.99 is fair all things considered.
I'm not sure I see the safety issue. My 7 year-old currently doesn't have the ability to dial 911 without an adult's cellphone. If I give them a Tin Can that has no 911, they are no more or less safe than they were before.
> they are no more or less safe than they were before.
I disagree. They think they can call 911 from it, so in an emergency they will try that, and fail, and try again (because things fail all the time in today's world), wasting a ton of time.
Without this device they would try some other plan, maybe go outside and scream for a passerby to help.
I vaguely recall that there was a time when cellphone companies were required to provide free 911 access. People that only wanted a phone for emergencies were advised to get one and not pay for service because it could still dial 911.
Huh, I was just thinking about something sort of like this after camping with some friends and our kids this weekend -- we brought FRS walkie-talkies for all of them (cannot recommend this enough!) and on the drive home my four-year-old was asking if he could call his friends on the radio -- rather than getting him a Technician's I was thinking about finding or making some push-to-talk cell/wifi devices for them. It seems like a few of these things exist but they're marketed toward the enterprise (in at least some cases, with a family-style product unfortunately but unsurprisingly being discontinued: https://relaypro.com/families/ ), but it doesn't seem like it would be a hard build aside from making a durable/kid-friendly enclosure for it.
you could try GMRS over FRS which ends up having more range and only costs $35 for a 10 year license (no test / certification needed). I was recently trying both types of handheld walkie talkies and the FRS range was almost 1/5th the range that GMRS was able to do
This just seems like another VOIP service wrapped in nostalgia. There are MANY cheaper and better options. I say this because I recently added a VOIP line for exactly this reason to give my kids a way to call their friends without a smart phone.
How easy is it to manage the calling allowlist for those providers? That seems to be the key value proposition here; the parent app that controls the allowlist.
Keep in mind, the main use case is allowing kids to call their friends and family and no one else.
VoIP nerds out there, is there any simple PFSense equivalent for VoIP that would allow you to DIY this? Basically restrict inbound and outbound calls to a whitelist?
You might like FreePBX[0] for a PFSense-style "PBX appliance" with easy WebUI. Just grab the ISO (or shell script to install on Debian). It's built on Asterisk, and more than adequate for the task. Whilst FreeSWITCH is awesome it's way more complex and overkill for this use case.
Yes, get a trunk from someone like BulkVS, SignalWire and run your own freeswitch or asterix. You can set up arbitrary “allowed” lists. Hell you can even get fancy with lookups and decide on the fly to allow a call or not.
There are other comments about providers, but my way is way cheaper and you can run you EPBAX on a pi or even get a pre made VM from Azure, Amazon, etc.
Some of the providers on that link have “allowlist” as a feature, but I am curious how easy it is to manage. The parent app seems like the real value proposition here.
Readit News
- buy an ethernet -> phone adapter (Grandstream, Cisco, and Poly sell these) and a cheap analog phone.
- get an inexpensive VoIP number[0] and set up the phone adapter to log into the service you set up.
- set up a Google Voice[1] number if you haven't already. When you want to make an outgoing call, use the Google Voice app to initiate a call to your VoIP number[2] -- that way you're technically receiving the call there, so it's cheaper or free, depending on your plan.
[0] CallCentric has a $3/month plan that gives you free incoming calls and e911 service: https://www.callcentric.com/faq/46/529. This works well if you initiate outgoing calls via the Google Voice app.
[1] As of 2023, Google Voice doesn't work directly with Obitalk VoIP service anymore, or with any other VoIP devices :(
[2] if you need to let kids make outgoing calls via Google Voice unattended, set up the Google Voice app on an old iOS device in Guided Access mode and plug it in next to the analog phone. (But make sure they know to make 911 calls using the phone itself, not the GVoice app. I suggest printing a "Emergency: call 911 on this phone" label and putting it on the back of the handset.
Geez this place has gone downhill.
/S
Dead Comment
Please avoid fulminating or sneering like this on HN, it's clearly against the guidelines.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Let me encourage you to just keep scrolling if someone's idea doesn't fit you personally.
> Information Collected from Children: As detailed in Section 3.C, we collect voice audio during calls, call log information, and utilize the Parent-provided contact list in relation to the Child's use of the Tin Can Device. We may also collect device identifiers and technical usage data related to the Service.
[1]: https://tincan.kids/policies/privacy-policy
> C. Information Related to Child Users (Collected via the Service):
> Voice Audio Data: Audio data transmitted during calls made or received on the Tin Can Device.
Between this, and the civil and possibly regulatory liability of having 911 not necessarily work, this company might end up blowing their runway and more on lawyers.
> This includes the real-time transmission of voice packets necessary for the call to function. If voicemail features are implemented, this includes recorded voicemail greetings and messages.
So maybe it is “collecting” the data only in these limited capacities? (which seem necessary for the thing to function)
Your residential internet provider will probably already sell you VoIP that you can plug a real phone into.
Put that old hamburger phone to good use.
The value is in the app for the parents. I would pay $10 not to deal with shitty VoIP interfaces.
We've got a group of parents around us who'd likewise like to delay their kids' smartphone access for as long as possible - but if a smartphone (or even a dumbphone with no meaningful parental controls) is the only way for kiddo to make calls, then I know some of them will defect. Selling them all on this kit (or something like it) would keep the agreement intact for a while longer.
For rsync, a person would have to study it to learn it. They might want to look for potential gotchas in how they configure it, too. The experts at Dropbox already did all that for us, though.
Edit: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations." https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service
Also "911 Services: Providers of "interconnected" VoIP services – which allow users generally to make calls to and receive calls from the regular telephone network – do have 911 service obligations" https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voice-over-internet-pro...
Luckily, I am in the UK where a bunch of 12 year olds who've just watched Scream calling the police about shadows doesn't result in something getting shot, but still - I think I learned something about actions and consequences that day.
Surely it would be possible to create a test version which gets terminated by a computer instead of hassling an operator - you could send DTMF codes or something similar to indicate a test.
I suspect that there is a little more to your story. Probably that the fuzz had some spare capacity at the time and decided to do an educational exercise on you lot - which worked nicely. Nowadays you hear about all sorts of daft 999 calls - there is a TV programme about it.
Now we are moving into the SOGEA era in the UK. That's where we have "glass" phone lines (FTTP) that don't supply power but have jolly fast internets. 2025 is the year that the copper network gets shut down, except that it wont be! Oh and we will all be using VOIP ie SIP n RTP. The final pretense of circuit switching will trot off into the sunset and be bundled behind a green tent and a single shot will be heard.
Tin Can is probably not bound by these rules, but it looks like a phone and works like a phone. In an emergency where seconds matter, it better not fail anyone.
Enabling 911 calls for all could not only save lives, but also save the company from lawsuits.
I'm not sure I see the safety issue. My 7 year-old currently doesn't have the ability to dial 911 without an adult's cellphone. If I give them a Tin Can that has no 911, they are no more or less safe than they were before.
I disagree. They think they can call 911 from it, so in an emergency they will try that, and fail, and try again (because things fail all the time in today's world), wasting a ton of time.
Without this device they would try some other plan, maybe go outside and scream for a passerby to help.
Yes, So what? Eat the cost.
Any life saved was worth it.
Dead Comment
Here are many good options https://www.ooma.com/blog/home-phone/best-voip-service-for-h...
Dead Comment
VoIP nerds out there, is there any simple PFSense equivalent for VoIP that would allow you to DIY this? Basically restrict inbound and outbound calls to a whitelist?
[0]: https://freepbx.org
There are other comments about providers, but my way is way cheaper and you can run you EPBAX on a pi or even get a pre made VM from Azure, Amazon, etc.
Damn I hate paying rent.
"†Lifetime calling subject to continued availability of our services, a valid account, and our terms of service."
Unless they open it up enough that you can change the VOIP server it uses.
Maybe instead of a flat $75, charge $5/month for the first 15 months.
Why is everyone looking at me? I'm busy obsessing over how to bring BBS's back.
To quote Dennis Duffy - The Beeper King - technology is cyclical!
https://youtu.be/bzm53FAo_q0?si=GNAiR_fgfL3xHNFX