Only sort of related, but I'm almost completely unable to smoke anymore. I used to smoke heavily in my early 20s (33 now). Now if I take more than one hit of anything, I'm liable to have an anxiety/panic attack. I can hardly move and I get these awful chills. The way it's consumed hardly matters; even with edibles, I can only have 1-2mg. I've ceased entirely and I don't regret it at all.
I'm sure there are at least a couple of other causes (genetics, early life diet), but I think it did worsen some hormonal imbalance issues I've had too.
Its been my observation that most moderate to heavy users have similar reactions eventually - myself included. I gave it up for years. Eventually, I found my way back and was determined to get through the anxiety/unpleasantness. What worked for me was starting back slow (2.5 mg of edibles) and working my way up from there.
Some times it was great, sometimes I could feel the anxiety/panic attack coming. In cases where the latter happened, I would really try to focus on why it was happening and what feelings I was having (mentally/physically). At a low dose, it was much easier to sort out the "who, what, when, where, why" of why the experience turned negative. I started recognizing the onset of the negative experience and learned to simply 'ride the wave' past it. And so I learned a big part of that was the expectation that it was going to be bad and everything that came with it. It became self fulfilling. As soon as I made those internal connections, it's been amazing. The only problems I have now are tolerance related :)
Any way, if you enjoyed it in the past, I'd encourage you to try it again at some point, but start with very small doses and work your way up.
From what I've seen, worrying about reactions and resisting the effect, for whatever reasons; which makes you see exactly what you expect and experience the effects stronger.
Like many here, I finally managed to fix that by leaning into it for a while, which wasn't always pleasant, but fixing internal issues is rarely pleasant. For me it was a lot about letting go of fear, which is always a good thing.
I also went back to it over the years because I wanted to "beat it" and I think there is truth to what you're saying. The biggest help I got that seemed to work was a reddit comment that said the best way to fight the anxiety was essentially to not be scared if it and egg the panic on.
Start feeling panicky? Come Your heart is racing? Ok Go head and beat faster fucker.
my solution has been somewhat similar... i only smoke once a week.
in my experience, weed 'flips the world' so that 'stuff' is no longer 'shut out'.
if you've lots of issues you'd rather not deal with, you're probably in for a bad time... depends a lot of course - where are you, how you feeling, who you with, do you trust them, the weed itself,
to me the experience is like a waking dream, where a very raw version of you comes out...
but that only works if you take massive breaks (1+week?) in between. give time for the 'stuff' to build up again.
excellent for meditative activities, but incredibly difficult from a self control perspective
had a six month period where i was pretty much a zombie. i call it my time in hell...
i know another guy that got admitted to a mental institution... and seen plenty of people 'stuck in their own heads' - talking to themselves, blabbering about things nobody understands but them...
Whoa, you and the other commenter are the only ones I've ever met who even remotely relate to this though (I've never bothered searching it out on the net). That's actually kind of a relief. For me it also coincided with just higher anxiety in general so I'm not really sure which came first.
> Although the authors will not share the data directly, any interested researcher may apply the search strategy developed for this analysis, available in the online supplemental appendix.
Yeah, that’s a bit of a red flag. A better study would of course open up the data, so validation would be easier.
But a better study would also have figured out whether the effects are correlated with specific strains of cannabis, perhaps even specific cannabinoids. There is no guarantee that it is specifically THC causing these effects, it could very well be CBG (cannabigerol) or just the inhalation of smoke itself: inhaled particular matter from combustion has been shown to cause cardiovascular issues, among other things.
I’m more inclined to believe the physical stress of coughing my ass off on a bad hit would wreck my heart over time than the THC itself, times thousands and thousands of coughs…
One thing I never see in these studies is control for all nicotine usage. Cannabis use is a massive indicator for that, and can very easily be under reported if it is not actually being tested for.
This is true! I would also like a study that separates the danger of smoking, any substance burned and inhaled is dangerous, but is it more or less dangerous than the actual thc?
In my experience the HN crowd is generally interested in cutting edge science that is relevant to pop culture.
Ever since cannabis use has become normalized there has been a vigorous debate about its long term safety and the issue is far from settled. This study is another data point that we as individuals can use to make decisions about cannabis use.
You are right that in practices we can't just look at cannabis use in isolation from the rest of a persons lifestyle. However, science almost never starts with a comprehensive analysis. Instead it starts with smaller targeted studies that are then used to build the comprehensive arguments.
So while yes I it would be more useful know the risk of cannabis use relative to drinking alcohol, consumer sugar, lack of exercise, etc... this data point in an of it self is still useful.
I think HN crowd is more likely to read one article out-of-context and over-extrapolate. In this case, there's no article even linked, just an abstract, so anybody jumping to conclusions from this isn't being very HN.
Somebody who was really HN would read the whole article, see what doses, what % risk change, what age, see what other studies say, etc.
HN readers are, at least if they’re in sfbay, somewhat more likely to use a variety of drugs (prescribed or otherwise) and significantly more likely to have researched the beneficial and adverse affects of any drugs they take voluntarily, relative to a baseline default population. “Nootropics” preceded “Microdosing”, and the human fascination with optimizing oneself knows few bounds.
My doctor sends out a monthly newsletter sharing things he finds interesting or useful, medical news, etc. Just this weekend he covered this study and shared his own thoughts on this, which I'll summarize since I haven't asked his permission to share verbatim:
This study does show a strong correlation but doesn't attempt to show causation. If cannabis users are significantly different than non-users in terms of activity levels or diet, or the ways they manage anxiety/pain/boredom, this could cause skewing. Since people use cannabis to treat (however effectively) various conditions, what is the risk of those conditions going untreated?
I thought this was a good analysis; glad to see a bit of desensationalism.
He was recommended by my therapist. Essentially runs an all-inclusive, boutique medical service; expensive, but actually turned out to be cheaper than all the services I'd previously had to use, for the best care of my life. That said, he only sees a limited number of patients (actually just closed new memberships from the web, only accepting referrals until he hits his cap) and only in Georgia.
I imagine there are other boutique providers out there, but this has been a first for me and given me hope that healthcare might not be so goddamn awful for everyone eventually.
There's also a link between sugar and your teeth falling out, water and drowning, heat and burning to death, sunlight and cancer, etc. Cardiovascular disease presents in half of all American adults. This isn't interesting news.
Readit News
I'm sure there are at least a couple of other causes (genetics, early life diet), but I think it did worsen some hormonal imbalance issues I've had too.
Some times it was great, sometimes I could feel the anxiety/panic attack coming. In cases where the latter happened, I would really try to focus on why it was happening and what feelings I was having (mentally/physically). At a low dose, it was much easier to sort out the "who, what, when, where, why" of why the experience turned negative. I started recognizing the onset of the negative experience and learned to simply 'ride the wave' past it. And so I learned a big part of that was the expectation that it was going to be bad and everything that came with it. It became self fulfilling. As soon as I made those internal connections, it's been amazing. The only problems I have now are tolerance related :)
Any way, if you enjoyed it in the past, I'd encourage you to try it again at some point, but start with very small doses and work your way up.
Like many here, I finally managed to fix that by leaning into it for a while, which wasn't always pleasant, but fixing internal issues is rarely pleasant. For me it was a lot about letting go of fear, which is always a good thing.
Start feeling panicky? Come Your heart is racing? Ok Go head and beat faster fucker.
But anyway I don't think its worth it.
in my experience, weed 'flips the world' so that 'stuff' is no longer 'shut out'.
if you've lots of issues you'd rather not deal with, you're probably in for a bad time... depends a lot of course - where are you, how you feeling, who you with, do you trust them, the weed itself,
to me the experience is like a waking dream, where a very raw version of you comes out...
but that only works if you take massive breaks (1+week?) in between. give time for the 'stuff' to build up again.
excellent for meditative activities, but incredibly difficult from a self control perspective
i know another guy that got admitted to a mental institution... and seen plenty of people 'stuck in their own heads' - talking to themselves, blabbering about things nobody understands but them...
side effects of weed are downplayed a lot
It's fairly common. Works great then one day, boom, pure anxiety hell. I went from being my happiest ever to taking years to just feel "ok" again
But a better study would also have figured out whether the effects are correlated with specific strains of cannabis, perhaps even specific cannabinoids. There is no guarantee that it is specifically THC causing these effects, it could very well be CBG (cannabigerol) or just the inhalation of smoke itself: inhaled particular matter from combustion has been shown to cause cardiovascular issues, among other things.
Deleted Comment
Without looking at all the effects together, the comparison product (alcohol?), and the actual change in risk it’s as likely to confuse as inform.
Ever since cannabis use has become normalized there has been a vigorous debate about its long term safety and the issue is far from settled. This study is another data point that we as individuals can use to make decisions about cannabis use.
You are right that in practices we can't just look at cannabis use in isolation from the rest of a persons lifestyle. However, science almost never starts with a comprehensive analysis. Instead it starts with smaller targeted studies that are then used to build the comprehensive arguments.
So while yes I it would be more useful know the risk of cannabis use relative to drinking alcohol, consumer sugar, lack of exercise, etc... this data point in an of it self is still useful.
I think HN crowd is more likely to read one article out-of-context and over-extrapolate. In this case, there's no article even linked, just an abstract, so anybody jumping to conclusions from this isn't being very HN.
Somebody who was really HN would read the whole article, see what doses, what % risk change, what age, see what other studies say, etc.
This study does show a strong correlation but doesn't attempt to show causation. If cannabis users are significantly different than non-users in terms of activity levels or diet, or the ways they manage anxiety/pain/boredom, this could cause skewing. Since people use cannabis to treat (however effectively) various conditions, what is the risk of those conditions going untreated?
I thought this was a good analysis; glad to see a bit of desensationalism.
I imagine there are other boutique providers out there, but this has been a first for me and given me hope that healthcare might not be so goddamn awful for everyone eventually.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44361795