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corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
catapart · 4 days ago
Right on. Thanks for the consideration!

I really appreciate you walking through that; it's an eye-opener! It seems like you not only deal with a considerable amount of five-minute-or-greater videos, but much higher quality than I was expecting, too.

I also like the idea of user-transcoding because, honestly, I think it's better for everyone? I would love if every place I uploaded video or audio content offered an option to "include lower-quality variants" or something. Broadly, it's my product; I should have the final say on (and take responsibility for) the end result. And for high-quality stuff, the people who make it tend to have systems equipped to do that better anyway. So they could probably get faster transcoding times by using their own systems rather than letting the server do it. Seems like a win-win, even outside of the obvious benefits of "make a whole lot of computers do only the work they each need done, instead of making a few computers do the work that everyone needs done". With the only slight downside of the "average user" having some extra options that they don't understand which cause them to use it wrong and then everyone hates your product. Yay, app development.

corndoge · 4 days ago
I think offering client side transcode as an option, with server side transcode available for those who don't want to do it client side, is compelling. I would probably do it, as I have a powerful home system that can transcode much faster than my cloud host (I do use the remote transcoding feature in Peertube though).
corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
Dylan16807 · 4 days ago
We can exclude rare enough outliers.

I've experienced B2 throwing a wrench into the dream of low latency, but some object stores are very fast. And more importantly you only need the first couple megabytes of each video to be on fast storage.

corndoge · 4 days ago
I'm using B2, so maybe that's it. I have the instance configured to serve video directly from B2 rather than proxying it. Peertube has no facilities to keep the first few mb of each video local to the server that I am aware of.
corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
estimator7292 · 4 days ago
That's very much not what transcoding is for. You don't want transcoding so a client can render the video in a comfortable resolution. You need transcoding to save bandwidth. If you want the client to do transcoding, you must send them the full raw video file. Either end of the connection may not have enough free bandwidth for that. The client may not be able to teanscode depending on size and format.

You of course, can do this anyway. PeerTube allows you to completely disable transcoding. But again that means you're streaming the full resolution. Your client may not like this.

If realtime performance is your concern I think PeerTube allows you to pre-transcode to disk. If there is a transcoded copy matching the client request, the server streams that direct with no extra transcode.

To answer your question: shifting transcode onto the client won't improve performance and will greatly increase bandwidth requirements in exchange for less compute on the server. You almost certainly do not want this.

corndoge · 4 days ago
I think GP meant making the user perform transcoding at upload time
corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
Dylan16807 · 4 days ago
I shove 1080p mp4s onto a very cheap server and I get 2 seconds of load time there versus somewhere between 1 and 2 seconds on youtube. And looking at network requests, the first chunk of the file loads in well under a second so I'd expect something with the metadata preloaded could start playing at that point. So if peertube takes 5 seconds, I really wonder why.

Is it inconvenient to transcode before/during upload?

corndoge · 4 days ago
If you scale an instance you need to use object storage (s3/b2/etc). Fetch from object storage can occasionally have latency spikes.

5 seconds is somewhat exaggerating, I clicked through 10 or so videos on my instance to check and it's 2-3 seconds most of the time.

corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
catapart · 4 days ago
Since you seem like you have practical knowledge here, I hope you don't mind me asking:

Would it change the equation, meaningfully, if you didn't offer any transcoding on the server and required users to run any transcoding they needed on their own hardware? I'm thinking of a wasm implementation of ffmpeg on the instance website, rather than requiring users to use a separate application, for instance.

Would you think a general user couldn't handle the workload (mobile processing, battery, etc), or would that be fairly reasonable for a modern device and only onerous in the high traffic server environment?

corndoge · 4 days ago
> Would it change the equation, meaningfully, if you didn't offer any transcoding on the server and required users to run any transcoding they needed on their own hardware?

I think the user experience would be quite poor, enough that nobody would use the instance. As an example a 4k video will transcoded at least 2 times, to 1080p and 720p, and depending on server config often several more times. Each transcode job takes a long time, even with substantial hwaccel on a desktop.

Very high bitrate video is quite common now since most phones, action cameras etc are capable of 4k30 and often 4k60.

> Do you think a general user couldn't handle the workload (mobile processing, battery, etc), or would that be fairly reasonable for a modern device and only onerous.

If I had to guess, I would expect it be a poor experience. Say I take a 5 minute video, that's probably around 3-5gb. I upload it, then need to wait - in the foreground - for this video to be transcoded and then uploaded to object storage 3 times on a phone chip. People won't do it.

I do like the idea of offloading transcode to users. I wonder if it might be suited for something like https://rendernetwork.com/ where users exchange idle compute to a transcode pool for upload & storage rights, and still get to fire-and-forget uploads?

corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
hsbauauvhabzb · 4 days ago
What value do you get in transcoding your own stuff? I have plex transcoding disabled on all local network devices that stream it and run into minimal issues (codecs on TV devices, mostly).
corndoge · 4 days ago
By "my own stuff" I mean that I use my instance to upload videos I would otherwise upload to youtube - videos I made that I intend to share with people. The usual reasons for transcoding apply.
corndoge commented on PeerTube is recognized as a digital public good by Digital Public Goods Alliance   digitalpublicgoods.net/r/... · Posted by u/fsflover
prmoustache · 5 days ago
peertube is in that weird space where the software is good technically but is overkill for home users and small entities[1] and moderation, bandwith and storage cost makes it a bit difficult and expensive to host large public shared instances unless you find a way to monetize it.

I guess it is more an alternative for Microsoft Stream than youtube really as it is more likely to be used as an internal video communication platform for a company than a public video streaming platform.

[1] if the audience is small, you are just fine sharing vids using the html video tags

corndoge · 4 days ago
From hosting a peertube instance solely for my own stuff for several years, I've come to appreciate just how difficult self hosting a streaming video platform is. As you say, bandwidth and storage requirements are significant; another less obvious one is transcoding. When a user uploads an HD video file, it needs to be transcoded into lower resolutions if you want there to be a hope of people streaming it. While Peertube itself is perfectly happy running on 2-4 vcpu cores on a cheap cloud vm, if you use those cores to handle transcode jobs it can take huge amounts of time (like 20+ hours) to transcode even medium length 1080p videos. So you really need either a lot of CPU that sits mostly idle, or hardware acceleration, both of which are expensive when purchased from cloud providers. Or you can use remote transcoding to offload transcode jobs onto your home gaming pc or whatever, which works well, but can be complicated and a bit touchy to set up properly, and now you have a point of failure dependent on your home network...

And then, people watching videos are used to the YouTube experience with its world class CDN infra enabling subsecond first frame latencies even for 4k videos. They go on Peertube and first frame takes like 5 seconds for a 1080p video...realistically, with today's attention spans most of them are going to bounce before it ever plays.

corndoge commented on The time has come to declare war on AI   sfgate.com/tech/article/t... · Posted by u/megamike
corndoge · 9 days ago
idk man it feels pretty useful to me
corndoge commented on Project Gemini   geminiprotocol.net/... · Posted by u/andsoitis
ramon156 · a month ago
I completely missed out on this :'(
corndoge · a month ago
No doubt you were doing a myriad of other things that were worthwhile to you at the time.
corndoge commented on Calculating legally compliant rent late fees across U.S. states   RentLateFee.com... · Posted by u/hrgdevBuilds
corndoge · 2 months ago
Other states do as well.
corndoge · 2 months ago
Just to follow up on this, 1 day later:

- It's still wrong

- The website now has a "get premium for $6 first 100 customers only!" banner

Vibe coded trash

u/corndoge

KarmaCake day4423February 14, 2014
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