That's all.
Savings are getting low, and I'm going to be struggling to pay rent soon. I'm curious what other kinds of work other former developers got into and if they like it. Cheers.
Readit NewsReadit NewsSavings are getting low, and I'm going to be struggling to pay rent soon. I'm curious what other kinds of work other former developers got into and if they like it. Cheers.
One thing that I do is that I keep writing code in my favorite languages Common Lisp, Haskell, Racket, and Python (Python only for deep learning). I also still write.
I envisage myself coding for another 45 years (I'm in my 50s now), but I worry about my ability to concentrate on a single task for long spells, think creatively yet realistically enough to find solutions; to learn the latest fads and tools, and maintain my enthusiasm to keep up with the latest fads and tools. Will my hands get too unsteady to type, my eyes too weak to focus; how long will I be able to sit (or stand) up and work in a session. No-one knows I'm a dog, but they will if I have to turn on the camera or go to the office, so, will I necessarily be transitioned to more results-driven work assignments via tasking sites?
(I guess these are the typical prejudices that a hiring team will make when considering an older candidate.)
Prepare me. Share your wisdom. What challenges has aging presented to your ability to code?
Alzheimer's disease.
Deleted Comment
It says something about society that asks people to work well beyond their retirement age.
I hope you are only looking because it gives you purpose rather than doing it because it’s necessary (ie, medical bills, rent). If it’s the latter, very dystopian and on par for this neoliberal economic hellhole we live in.
Personally, if I get to that age. I am cashing in my chips. No way I am working for soulless corporations, whether that’s part time or full time.
I would much rather “retire” and work on my own open source projects or contribute to FOSS projects I like. Worst case scenario, I become a wood worker ;)
I work because I like it. I like being around smart people doing smart things. But in a couple of years, I will stop working and just spend time lifting weights, practicing bjj and painting.
I dont think that's what's going on here. If you click on OP's profile you'll see that he's written a bunch of books. He also mentions Common Lisp and Racket, not exactly go to languages for soul-less corporations. My take is he's doing it for the love of the craft.
I aspire to do this too when I'm at that age. I've been through a few career iterations with the only constant being is that I love to make things.
Dead Comment
So I released my application to the App Store this month, and while savings are dwindling, things are starting to finally move into the other direction now.
Well that's me. My theory is that it is not age that makes one unemployable in the software industry, but the unwillingness to put up with shit cooked up by bunch of 25 year old CEOs, CTOs, and the like.
EDIT: and by changed, I don't mean improved. I was a huge advocate of agile and eXtreme Programming early in my career, and I even worked in shops where it seemed to be really having good results. Now I see everyone using SCRUM and... it's garbage and I want to gouge my eyes out in the meetings.
I see a lot of talking but not a lot of code getting written. And where the code gets written, it's always a pile of ego-boosting needless complexity.
Much later I told my skip boss about the kind of feeling of disregard that may have fostered as he pushed me for insights. And he remarked that it sounded like I had a chip on my shoulder. All I could come up with was 'guess I was born with it.'
Yeah cynical. And much happier working on my own things that are meaningful and interesting.
But this industry is also, in my eyes and experience, madness at times.
"experience" seems to mean between nothing and everything depending on the previous company, the whims of the "hiring market", who/whatever reviews your resume and other nebulous forces subject to change at any time.
I've worked with people with loads of "experience" that are not particularly good that have managed to string together a career well-enough, and I know folks too with fancy resumes and experience that matches roles identically that can't get interviews for identical positions with referrals.
At any given time, what any party responsible for hiring "values" seems to change on a whim.
It's infuriating.
I don't have a "premium" resume, but when I can exceed all the expectations for a several job listings and I have a few years experience at a "fancy" company, you'd think I could at least get some calls back somewhere, right?
This makes the prospect of investing in any software skills for the purposes of employment a total contradiction.
(and yes, I understand the market is an has been very "bad" for a few years, but this kind of thing has existed since I've been doing this for the better part of a decade)
You haven't seen the shit written by 50++ senior and principal 'developers'. Imagine local variables names 20-40 chars long. Then they are passed into function call, like 15-20 of them. While actually these are just 3 structures. I.e. 'gurus' unroll them into individual elements and pass. Long names to make the code what they call 'self-documented'. No comments at all. And all this is in a big project with other devs working on it for years. It's absurdly slow for the project of this size and resources. But with almost no competitors this can last for decades and it actually does.
Prior to that, starting at 45 y/o I was a part time dev and full time firefighter-paramedic (14 years total). Covid scared me to becoming a FT dev.
Most successful businesses and ventures tend to be at our age, and even someone like myself have experienced why.
I think this begins to be visible even sooner, 38 if you graduated at 23. The majority of the job market requires very very few 15+ years experienced engineers. 5 to 10 years of experience is a sweet spot - you will be easily hired. Everything below and beyond is a struggle, especially for the latter since very few companies need and are willing to pay for those skills.
And that's how you become unemployable with the irony of being at more or less what would be the peak of your technical capabilities. In years later on, people start to lose the drive.
On the other hand, I just got hired at 55 and it wasn't difficult.
The baseline requirement of technical competence for extreme financial success in tech is so low that most big tech companies don't even hire rank-and-file engineers whom don't meet that requirement half-way.
that is, a 50 year old isn't even asked what their salary expectations are, it is simply assumed to be higher than what they want to pay, or rather, they can't bring themselves to pay someone like that less than they think is appropriate for their age. combine that with the perception that older people are less flexible and unwilling/unable to learn new stuff, and you end up with the belief that older people are expensive and useless or overqualified.
And as time marches on, there’s more and more competition for those roles.
- Minor health issues accumulate and become a distraction. Especially insomnia.
- Having worked on many projects and technologies that went nowhere, my enthusiasm for the work is diminished, making me less focused.
I decided to return to the last work that I found meaningful, which was as a software developer in the U.S. civil service.
I think this was the right move, although Trump and Musk are doing their very best to make me question that.
How about an angel investing firm for 40+ founders only?
I lost my mom, marriage of 18 years, Grandma, and sanity a bit last year... but I'm doing great mentally now, just need financial to align, I'm trying to enroll in WGU for CS and then ai/ml masters and I want to double major with psychology...I want to work with therapy ai things as I've hacked my growth with ai to amazing results...
I'm going back to school to get higher paying jobs and be more sought after... and loans can float me rent for the duration of school...
I've got an RV I can live in (loaner from a friend) but nowhere to park it...I want to outfit it with solar panels but that's pricey.
Wishing you the best.
Would love to hear more about this if you’re willing to share
I'm planning on adding a bunch of prompt examples and outcomes... my favorite thing is like I'll have tough feelings and I'll ask chatGPT to ferret out the trauma behind it and help me release the things... use RTT, DBT, and CBT to reprogram my brain, ask I've question then follow up questions based on answers...
this is with a custom gpt that has a bunch of self help bullet point PDFs as well as a bunch of journal entries and previous therapy chat threads (got too long)... major things I break out into their own document or PDF as a source for the gpr.
The point is not that an outdoorsy job is great for you, but that you may want to consider what kind of things make you happy and see if you can find a job doing something like that. These folks loved being outdoors before become engineers and were happy to go back to being outdoors for work.
This is great advice for job satisfaction, but given current events this sort of move is unlikely to result in an increase in job security or ease in finding a new job.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-forest-service-fires-340...
Dead Comment
There’s a humongous amount of BS out there about trading or day trading but the fact is that people do it and make it, and my best friend being a consistently profitable trader for the last 4 years didn’t help my skeptic case…
At any rate, turns out that the challenge of trading is less of a technical or financial one. Sure, one needs to understand stuff like price action and market structure and such, but the core of the thing is kind of like developing this complete disregard towards money. Making and losing money can’t mean anything or have any emotional impact, one needs to just see numbers, statistics and trust on one’s strategy.
I’m not sure I’m comfortable recommending this to anybody because it requires a weird commitment to failing but still striving and it is hard but not in any way I was familiar with. It’s hard in losing X% of my trading account and waking up next day with a clear head to do the same thing again.
I've known many poker players who end up taking this to the extreme and basically think of every hour of their life in terms of their per hour expected value at the table.
Like, "Is it worth it to go to dinner with friends or should I play for those 2 hours instead?"
There are definitely happy and well adjusted poker pros as well who can shut it off at the end of the day, but that's a learned skill that doesn't come easy to many.
Maybe this is less of an issue with trading because the market has set hours?
But you are right, trading certainly makes one A LOT more aware of risk/reward just in general life, which can be good or bad. Also, it is very easy to gamble instead of speculate, that is to trade something one "hopes" would work vs. trading something that has a statistical percentage of working, and the difference between the two is purely emotional, because one can convince oneself of quite literally anything! Come with a bullish bias and everything looks bullish... take a step back and reconsider and see how easy is for one to see what one wants to see.
He may have discover a relatively unknown niche than he can exploit, or he is plain lucky. The question is: are you confident that you can replicate his success. For most people that I'm aware of the answer is often 'no'. Most people loose money and will rarely talk about it.
When one starts thinking about how to look at all those factors and when one starts thinking about how to measure those factors (what is volatility? What high or low? Compared to what baseline? Does the baseline move?) it becomes clear that the problem is a bit more complicated to measure and implement in code than it is to train oneself and trade discretionary.
With very fast execution (think server collocation on the exchange and direct fiber network access to the exchange server) the possibility of market making opens, I think of the things that Jane Street does, and look how crazy profitable they are. But very few people have access to that.
Game is rigged for big players. You are gambling.
> best friend being a consistently profitable trader for the last 4 years didn’t help my skeptic case…
Last 4 years have been a boon for day traders. Any idiot with a decent sized portfolio and appetite for risk can make a living. However you are literally staring at graphs all day. Not very fun or rewarding or contributing much to society tbh.
For every winner out there, there are always hundreds of losers. Something something, “survivorship bias”
> one needs to just see numbers, statistics and trust on one’s strategy.
In a vacuum, this makes sense. But the market can remain irrational much longer than you can remain solvent.
Good luck with grinding out there. The current POTUS is a massive grifter, and driven by pseudo scientific neoclassical economic theory. So your day trading days will likely be sustainable for the next 4 years.
This is funny tho
> Game is rigged for big players. You are gambling.
That’s the whole point of the thing, I’m not playing their game! Look at, say, wheat… a report comes out with adjusted supply/demands (USDA releases those), then if players need to buy/sell a few million bushels of wheat… well, you don’t buy/sell a couple million bushels of wheat without paying on slippage…
I’ve made money exactly that way from “big players”. We are not playing the same game at all!
But I finally stuck with MotiveWave, so much so that I actually paid for a full license even though there are a bunch of great free platforms. Main thing, works on Linux and macOS, where as many other platforms are exclusive Windows.
Also, the SDK is quite nice too!
As for commodities, I've found some success in agricultural commodities but I also dabble in currencies and indexes. Agricultural though have some interesting characteristics given than they have an actual physical thing behind them as opposed to how stocks move... which varies depending on which side of the bed the CEO of the company woke up!
I also started with the idea of doing algo trading, my tests results looked amazing! then I learned about slippage, commission, over fitting my stuff to my test data... trading is not a computer problem, is a market problem and once one understands those building an algo makes more sense. I use some tools I coded myself but I still have no idea how to quantify what I see on a chart, why one "signal" I'm fine trading, and another is a no inspite of being the same signal (think stuff like SMA crossing)
Good luck!
I think people often conflate "being a <trade>" with "owning a <trade> business." A W-2 electrician earns a median salary of $62k in the USA. A guy who runs a business as an electrician might bill out $250k a year for his work, but he'll have to pay expenses like insurance, vehicles, gas, tools/tec, FICA, taxes, rent, on call services, and probably salaries for his assistants (which may include an unpaid secret assistant like a spouse who coordinates appointments). So their take home isn't nearly that much.
Yes, but I presume at a high physical cost in the long-term? (I mean, more than the physical cost of sitting in a chair)
Why? Electricians aren't doing intense labour, and I'm 99% certain that being in a job where you move around a lot (as opposed to sitting at your desk) has long term health benefits, without even getting into carpal tunnel syndrome and other RSIs associated with being at a computer.
Canada?
I live in a subdivision with cookie cutter houses and a custom wood front door would be neat, assuming it passes wife and HOA approvals.
I've kept working, but I write free software, for folks that can't afford people like me.
I want to write software. But these days jobs don't want to pay me to write software. They want to pay me to write JIRA tickets. JIRA tickets about fixing other people's code. I keep trying again and again, but the industry has completely lost any magic for me.
Meanwhile I can pump out hundreds of lines a weekend on my own free software projects and actually feel like I'm getting things done.
I can relate. It's sort of "Hell is other people." I work very effectively on my own, but the scope is limited. Big things require teams.
I realize how fortunate I am, that I could afford to retire. I don't have as much money as I would, with another ten years under my belt, but I should be OK.
It absolutely stuns me, that young folks are getting paid more out of school, than I made, in my entire career, and have less to show for it.