I had pre-ordered a Model 3 way back (ended up not buying it since they didn't come out with the "cheap version" until years later) and was planning to eventually get a Tesla after my ICE car taps out.
Then it first slowly (never criticizing China or Russia), then quickly (making fun of Ukraine, going full MAGA) and eventually full steam (promoting Germany's anti-democratic far right AfD, the salute) it dawned on me that Elon doesn't give a damn about democracy (he is in fact throwing all his weight behind undermining it across the West).
I care a lot about it, even if it may mean slower progress in some aspects (say compared to China); a system for non-violent regime change is a precious, happy accident of history that's worthwhile defending.
Democrats either already own EV's or will buy EV's anyway. The open question is does EV adoption go up among Republicans. I think it will, though I don't know to what extent.
In general, I find surveys or self-reported data to be poor predictors of behavior.
There are other EVs on the market. Much more reliable ones too. I’m actually amazed they’ve managed to pull off being the least reliable used car, given that the “competitors” have a lot more moving parts:
Tesla competitors. Giving fuel to the broader market, decreasing Tesla's market share, and calling into question the bull case for Tesla's highly inflated P/E ratio.
Trump seems to be somewhat anti-EV (or, at least, doesn't want to push them in the same way Biden did), so it wouldn't surprise me if Republicans took their cues from him and stayed away.
I think you are likely correct. Marketing for Green can only get you so far, next marketing push is Patriotism. I don’t like Musk, but he is a marketing genius of this era.
I think the myth of Elon's genius has been utterly shattered by the Path of Exile 2 debacle. Turns out faking it until you make it can take you all the way to the top.
It was more like “No thanks, I vote for crazy.” I swing right on a lot of things (I voted against democrats in local/state races), but I couldn’t fathom how anyone would see a second trump term as anything more than the chaotic mess the last one was.
Tesla, as a car company, keeps botching basic car company stuff. Reliability. Parts. Repair. Pricing. New models.
- The Model 3 came out in 2017, which was a while back. The Model S did get a mid-cycle refresh.
- The Cybertruck has been a dud. Sales are way down.[1] Rivian apparently outsells it.
- By now, Tesla's Fake Self Driving isn't fooling anybody, now that people have seen Waymo really doing it.
- Tesla is behind in batteries. They can now make round lithium-ion cells, the previous generation of technology. The current generation is more like BYD's "blade" battery, packaged up in rectangular modules. The next generation is fully solid state batteries, which CATL, BYD, Toyota, and Samsung are spending billions to make work. Tesla does not seem to be active in that area, beyond lab efforts.
- China is getting rather good at making electric cars cheaply. It's not all labor cost. It's partly better design.
BYD's "e-axle" is a unit with wheels, axles, differential, and motor. Plugs into a power electronics box and a battery. Plug in a CANbus cable to the controls and go. Simplifies manufacturing.
- Tesla has repeatedly failed to get their costs down. Sales are down. Profits are down.
- The CEO is not devoting full time to the job.
These are all classic car-company mismanagement problems. There are points in GM, Chrysler, and VW history like that.
Tesla likes to pretend they are a special snowflake, but they haven't been that for over a decade.
> The Model 3 came out in 2017, which was a while back. The Model S did get a mid-cycle refresh.
The Model 3 got a refresh last year
> Tesla is behind in batteries. They can now make round lithium-ion cells, the previous generation of technology. The current generation is more like BYD's "blade" battery, packaged up in rectangular modules.
Tesla uses other people’s (usually Panasonic[1]) batteries, they manufacture them, but don’t develop them on their own. In China and Europe, they even use BYD’s blade batteries.[2]
Musk just announced Tesla will have self-driving Real Soon Now. Again.[1]
"Teslas will be in the wild, with no one in them, in June in Austin," Musk said. "This is not some far-off mythical situation. It's literally five, six months away."
In short, tesla is not viewed as favorably as other car companies. And in the end, what they offer isn’t much differentiated from competitors that offer similar products.
Still going strong with the Asian tech crowd, from what I see in the Bellevue (Seattle) area. We don’t care about politics (or we actually like Elon), and we don’t have many white friends that shame us about our cars. We just want dependable cars that have minimal maintenance. There aren’t that many of us though and we tend to keep our cars for a very long time.
Tesla’s drivetrain and battery longevity is unmatched compared to legacy auto, but non powertrain reliability issues and repair times are legitimate points.
Am Seattle-based Tesla owner, using the same Model X I bought in early 2018 with FSD the HW3 retrofit - right before Elon started going off the deep end…
It’s been almost 7 years and I’ve spent a grand total of $0.00 on servicing the car, even after the warranty expired. That compares favourably to my last car, a Ford, which had the dual-clutch transmission issue.
(Yes, Anecdotes are not data; also, as a Tesla shareholder I desperately want to see Elon ousted; he’s like a reverse-Schindler…)
Many of the dings against reliability are “recalls” that get patched OTA. I’ve owned 3 over the past 7 years and the only time I’ve gone in for a repair was because the motorized truck bed cover wasn’t closing on its first try. I had to press it twice for a few weeks until I got it fixed.
Yes, it’s an anecdote. But it’s my “lived experience” as they say.
I’d like to see the actual distribution of issues because the impression that i get is that a few people have a lot of problems and a lot of people have few to no problems.
To me it reads as, "For those people looking to buy an EV, they have a favorable impression of the Toyota brand", i.e., they wish Toyota made a good EV but they'll probably end up with a Prius !
Prius buyers are pretty distinct from EV buyers. Hybrid buyers are looking for efficiency and don’t mind a clunky drive experience to pay for that efficiency. EV buyers are mostly looking for a great driving experience that you definitely wouldn’t get with a Prius, maybe a small sports car but they still want a family sedan or SUV.
Well that and this was a survey of regular consumers, not pedantic programmers who tend to fall into the premature optimization trap. Most consumers don't care about the distinction between an EV and a hybrid. This also wasn't a question about which brand they actually plan to buy from, but it does potentially indicate a willingness to pull back and pick something that is good enough (a hybrid) rather than "perfect" (an EV). It tracks with my own experience too - I have considered Tesla in the past, but a Prius Prime seems like a more sensible choice for what I need.
Yeah, that was an immediate red flag. Something's fucky here. Nobody likes the BZ4X, not even Toyota. I thought maybe they were including plugin hybrids or regenerative hybrids in with EVs (technically true but not the common usage of the word), but the report only mentions the words "plug" and "hybrid" once each, and in that context they are mentioning them separately.
I guess it's possible alot of EV likers already have a Prius or something and really like it - that was me 2 years ago, it was a great car. But I still wouldn't have said I view Toyota favourably ever since it became clear they hate electric cars, and strange to see them ranked higher than Tesla. Something seems weird.
- I want to POSSESS my car, so I do not want services and remote actions out of my control, Tesla is not the only vendor who try making the car a service, but due to it's track records the sole way to convince me is becoming FLOSS
- I do want V2L/V2H with the best integration with my home p.v. possibly DC-2-DC directly, so far no cars offer something alike even if it's perfectly feasible, but Tesla do not offer even basic V2L...
BYD and Geely are demolishing Tesla on units shipped basis anyway everywhere in the world that Tesla isn't protected by policy. It is a shame because Musk would have owned this space if he had executed.
His atrocious personal behavior distracts from what a terrible and unfocused executive he is. Tesla sales are declining, he failed to deliver on Hyperloop, he failed to deliver on Semis, and he will fail to deliver on FSD just like his myriad promises that he did not deliver on https://qz.com/elon-musks-worst-predictions-promises-1851410...
Downvotes? BYD and Geely each shipped more cars in 2024 than Tesla. Together they more than tripled Tesla's units sold on a much higher growth rate. As an American citizen I consider it a tragedy, but a self-made one.
Readit News
Then it first slowly (never criticizing China or Russia), then quickly (making fun of Ukraine, going full MAGA) and eventually full steam (promoting Germany's anti-democratic far right AfD, the salute) it dawned on me that Elon doesn't give a damn about democracy (he is in fact throwing all his weight behind undermining it across the West).
I care a lot about it, even if it may mean slower progress in some aspects (say compared to China); a system for non-violent regime change is a precious, happy accident of history that's worthwhile defending.
Not buying a Tesla is the least I can do.
In general, I find surveys or self-reported data to be poor predictors of behavior.
https://en.cebia.com/detailArticle/the-most-and-least-reliab...
Tesla competitors. Giving fuel to the broader market, decreasing Tesla's market share, and calling into question the bull case for Tesla's highly inflated P/E ratio.
About 3 in 10 Americans would seriously consider buying an electric vehicle - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/06/27/about-3-i... - June 27, 2024
e.g. https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5272749/donald-trump-ev...
Putting people in neat boxes is a major reason that Trump is president.
People are more alike than different. All it takes is the majority of people to wake up and say "no thanks, this is too crazy"
- The Model 3 came out in 2017, which was a while back. The Model S did get a mid-cycle refresh.
- The Cybertruck has been a dud. Sales are way down.[1] Rivian apparently outsells it.
- By now, Tesla's Fake Self Driving isn't fooling anybody, now that people have seen Waymo really doing it.
- Tesla is behind in batteries. They can now make round lithium-ion cells, the previous generation of technology. The current generation is more like BYD's "blade" battery, packaged up in rectangular modules. The next generation is fully solid state batteries, which CATL, BYD, Toyota, and Samsung are spending billions to make work. Tesla does not seem to be active in that area, beyond lab efforts.
- China is getting rather good at making electric cars cheaply. It's not all labor cost. It's partly better design. BYD's "e-axle" is a unit with wheels, axles, differential, and motor. Plugs into a power electronics box and a battery. Plug in a CANbus cable to the controls and go. Simplifies manufacturing.
- Tesla has repeatedly failed to get their costs down. Sales are down. Profits are down.
- The CEO is not devoting full time to the job.
These are all classic car-company mismanagement problems. There are points in GM, Chrysler, and VW history like that.
Tesla likes to pretend they are a special snowflake, but they haven't been that for over a decade.
[1] https://electrek.co/2025/01/02/tesla-cybertruck-sales-are-di...
The Model 3 got a refresh last year
> Tesla is behind in batteries. They can now make round lithium-ion cells, the previous generation of technology. The current generation is more like BYD's "blade" battery, packaged up in rectangular modules.
Tesla uses other people’s (usually Panasonic[1]) batteries, they manufacture them, but don’t develop them on their own. In China and Europe, they even use BYD’s blade batteries.[2]
[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/panaso...
[2] https://carnewschina.com/2023/05/22/first-tesla-model-y-with...
"Teslas will be in the wild, with no one in them, in June in Austin," Musk said. "This is not some far-off mythical situation. It's literally five, six months away."
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolekobie/2025/02/05/another-...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Model-Y-Juniper-expected-to-la...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Fast-charged-Model-S-battery-g...
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01698-1
It’s been almost 7 years and I’ve spent a grand total of $0.00 on servicing the car, even after the warranty expired. That compares favourably to my last car, a Ford, which had the dual-clutch transmission issue.
(Yes, Anecdotes are not data; also, as a Tesla shareholder I desperately want to see Elon ousted; he’s like a reverse-Schindler…)
Yes, it’s an anecdote. But it’s my “lived experience” as they say.
Just goes to show the power of branding.
I guess it's possible alot of EV likers already have a Prius or something and really like it - that was me 2 years ago, it was a great car. But I still wouldn't have said I view Toyota favourably ever since it became clear they hate electric cars, and strange to see them ranked higher than Tesla. Something seems weird.
- I want to POSSESS my car, so I do not want services and remote actions out of my control, Tesla is not the only vendor who try making the car a service, but due to it's track records the sole way to convince me is becoming FLOSS
- I do want V2L/V2H with the best integration with my home p.v. possibly DC-2-DC directly, so far no cars offer something alike even if it's perfectly feasible, but Tesla do not offer even basic V2L...
His atrocious personal behavior distracts from what a terrible and unfocused executive he is. Tesla sales are declining, he failed to deliver on Hyperloop, he failed to deliver on Semis, and he will fail to deliver on FSD just like his myriad promises that he did not deliver on https://qz.com/elon-musks-worst-predictions-promises-1851410...
Downvotes? BYD and Geely each shipped more cars in 2024 than Tesla. Together they more than tripled Tesla's units sold on a much higher growth rate. As an American citizen I consider it a tragedy, but a self-made one.