While I like frameworks like Rails and Django, Golang with AI makes me very productive. Especially because of how Golang codebases don't use too many dependencies so an LLM never recommends code that has an old dependency or mismatched version...
I'm just curious, how well does Ruby integrate with AI tools?
I don't have a lot of experience with Golang and AI, I think Rails can give you different kind of productivity.
From what I know (please correct me if I am wrong) most people use AI to create scaffolding and automate all boring and repetitive tasks in a project. So code still needs to be written, you just outsource it to AI helper.
In Rails you write less code and concentrate on business logic because everything boring like DAL, authorization, caching is already written and tested in production.
A singular data point here, but if I ask MS Copilot to write me a unit test in python/django it will more often get it right the first time than in golang. The golang code tends to reference things that don't exist. These aren't huge codebases either.
Not sure about Ruby in general, but Rails is an excellent candidate for LLM assistance. It’s very much convention over configuration, been around since forever and there isn’t a question somebody hasn’t already asked on Stack Overflow.
This is a great point. I often ask LLMs which coding language they are most proficient in, and Python is the most typical response. This has makes me want to write more Python.
Certain cities it's like a Rails desert. I'd love to get a job using it but it's slim pickings. It's either .NET or PHP and maybe some Python and maybe some Node most of the time for web dev.
I've always been interested in rails, even though my career has gone the JS/TS route. Think i might finally take the plunge and try to build some random stuff with it. See how far i can get by looking at code examples and asking gpt "how do you do x in rails" etc.
Really love that it seems to just be a complete toolbox, especially for a solo project.
Also seeing more and more rails roles out there, but obviously don't have 5+ years with the framework
There was a period of time around the height of Rails original heyday where the idea of a very opinionated, complete framework such as Rails got a lot of blowback, which gave rise to the Javascript ecosystem and its myriad front-end frameworks.
I think the pendulum is kind of swinging back the other way now. While there are certainly advantages with the Node ecosystem, it always felt very messy to me. Rails language extensions, ORM, testing, and migrations frameworks have never been matched by any javascript libraries. Ruby and Rails have always prioritized quality of life features, which made it a very enjoyable and productive framework.
I think the reason rails has stuck around is because of it being a very opinionated framework and it dictates a method to do almost anything. This allows the docs to be very straightforward, almost as if they were written for the Rails application itself.
I also think the language itself is a big plus. I don't like the reflection system or hot patching being a feature in a language, but rails makes extensive use of it to create it's own domain specific language.
Yeah, i mainly deal with react/next + supabase on a daily basis at work.
And do sometimes think of small apps i could build for fun, but the thought of doing react, again, is tiring in and of itself lol plus the whole setup around getting express running and picking packages.
Rails is ready out of the box, for me to not have to screw around with.
Just love the ruby syntax(along with python, which i am actively learning now with datacamp). Its cleaner, and i can probably do 90% of what i do in react there. Then for the rest throw solid js or svelte, or even just react for specific components.
Can only encourage you, I'm mostly working with Go but all my side projects are with Rails which I've only started a few years ago. It's a lot of fun.
I'm not a big fan of watching tutorials, but more of learning by doing but I signed up for https://gorails.com when I started out and it was very helpful to get an overview.
Does anyone here have any recommendations for free or at least very cheap Rails hosting for a toy app just for learning purposes? I’m looking for a PaaS offering since I don’t have the time to secure and manage a VPS.
You might also want to try Kamal, which Rails is already configured for out of the box.
You'll still be spinning up a VPS, but at least set up and management is done via a very heroku-like interface from your local machine. Just get any VPS that will be accessible via SSH, and `kamal setup` can handle the rest. [1]
The one annoying part right now, is it relies on a docker registry you have to provide. I think they're working on removing that requirement, but you can use the free github container registry until then. It's just for rollbacks AFAIK.
Does it really take any more time to secure a VPS than a docker container on a custom runtime for a hobby project? Either way you still have to run software and OS updates.
Rails 8 made me love Rails again after a few years working with other tools. The new direction is just perfect, specially for solo developers. The 'solid trifecta' in combination with the simplicity of using sqlite3, the new built in auth solution, Kamal... everything, so f*ing good.
I know sqlite3 is great, but I've always found it much more annoying to use it on a server for small side projects than just using Postgres where I could just connect to the prod instance from my local machine and run some queries to look at the data. With sqlite I'd always have to sync files, set up volumes, make sure permissions are correct vs. just setting an environment variable to a PG instance.
From what I understand, the sqlite3 comment was made it context of the Solid libraries. Basically common Redis-backed functionality can now be sqlite3-backed instead.
I do share your preference on using Postgres as the main database. Having that as the main db with sqlite3 used for auxiliary functionality sounds great.
I've been out of rails for more than a decade, ended up mostly with Django, but I always kinda miss rails. But Django has treated me so well, just wish async and python in general had more legs on this side
I've used nothing but Rails since about 2004. Of course I've been integrating and playing with various JS frameworks over the same time period, but the only things that's remained consistent is Rails as the base. I've gone through at least 4 or 5 different JS frameworks in that time and that aspect of development has grown rather tiresome.
Been using Rails professionally for 13 years (currently at GitLab) and I still don't think anything else beats it for developer happiness and productivity.
It cuts through all the mess of modern web development so well and makes turning an idea in to something deployable incredibly easy.
I’ve also been working with Rails for many years now but I disagree I think developer and happiness are subjective and I’ve seen great applications being built by many people in various languages. The key is picking the tool you are most proficient with and one that also aligns with your technical requirements. I certainly wouldn’t build a Discord with Rails..
Hey there's some selection bias going on there! Rails is great for consistency and even better if its your jam. Its stable and high quality and still headed in a great direction. Its a great choice. Especially if you can work in it long term, and pay its learning curve only once.
...but as someone using it in Anger for a few years now, I long for the day I can say goodbye to it and never look back, for all the usual reasons.
I should say that I've not been using Rails _exclusively_ for that period. But it's the one framework that sticks around in my toolkit no matter what. It's what I reach for in any new project by default.
I was also using it in anger until recently, and I'm really glad I got out of it.
But I disagree that it's consistent or that it leads to consistency.
The "Rails way" or "DHH way" of building apps is indeed consistent, but most big teams eschew this in the name of more complicated (and less consistently applied) patterns.
It follows the Anna Karenina principle to a T. All good codebases are alike and follow the Rails way; each bad codebase is bad in its own way and uses bullshit like Trailblazer, Active Interactors, over-engineered Service Objects or some other bullshit. Sometimes all of them at the same time.
The main application I have to work with now ended up, for various reasons, as a Rails API with a Vue client.
The Rails part has been easy to maintain and adapt to users' frequent changes, the main issues being feature requests for very complicated queries which then end up being slow. Vue has taken up a lot of time with the migration from 2 -> 3 (still not finished).
What’s the best way to use JavaScript on rails these days?
I’ve been using rails for over 20 years and still love it but the JavaScript story has always been in flux in bad ways. I don’t like the turbo stuff or stimulus. Basically just want to be able to add some nice charts, and some enhancements like confirmation for links. Basically just build admins with it so the caching for partial html just isn’t part of the game. Looked at upgrading to rails 8 now but the javascript in last version of rails was fragmented and complicated, so looking to find a good way to do it in a standard way now, hopefully next version of rail’s doesn’t change everything again.
- Adding npm Packages with importmap-rails
To add new packages to your import map-powered application, run the bin/importmap pin command from your terminal:
$ bin/importmap pin react react-dom
Then, import the package into application.js as usual:
It would be a valid thing if there was a documented way to convert a generic node package to import map. Not much stuff in that importmap ecosystem - seems doa.
What? No, it's just rails that has changed how it handles JS, or at least the recommended way to handle JS very often throughout the year. It's weird to blame it on the JavaScript ecosystem. Like I can't figure out what changes in the JS ecosystem you are referring to exactly.
It's such a shame that a big successful Rails or Django equivalent never really materialized in the Node world. It's not like nobody tried. There were so many times it seemed like one was gaining traction, then it would be abandoned or zombified or commercialized, and it just never happened. I really can't understand why.
Indeed Next is the closest we've gotten, but see: commercialized. The default path for Rails and Django is not a vendor locked in cloud offering; they are truly FOSS projects. It seems like its that mentality which died out more than anything else, really. Also "just picking an ORM" is actually one of the key killer features of Django/Rails in general. There is no fully batteries included equivalent for JS land sadly.
Laravel still seems a lot more fleshed out on the back end. Job queues, task scheduling, notifications, migrations, email. Seems to be a lot more of a cohesive package, everything working together.
Readit News
Last month, I built a directory of web apps built with the Rails framework.
With Rails 8 released last year, the framework is stronger than ever. Some even say it’s experiencing a renaissance.
There are already 21 submissions, and if you use Rails, you’re welcome to add your app or website!
I'm just curious, how well does Ruby integrate with AI tools?
From what I know (please correct me if I am wrong) most people use AI to create scaffolding and automate all boring and repetitive tasks in a project. So code still needs to be written, you just outsource it to AI helper.
In Rails you write less code and concentrate on business logic because everything boring like DAL, authorization, caching is already written and tested in production.
edit: syntax
I haven't done any AI with Ruby, but from what I saw, the ecosystem is lacking support of good libraries.
Generally speaking you will find Rails being used more in Business or SaaS rather than consumer.
Really love that it seems to just be a complete toolbox, especially for a solo project.
Also seeing more and more rails roles out there, but obviously don't have 5+ years with the framework
I think the pendulum is kind of swinging back the other way now. While there are certainly advantages with the Node ecosystem, it always felt very messy to me. Rails language extensions, ORM, testing, and migrations frameworks have never been matched by any javascript libraries. Ruby and Rails have always prioritized quality of life features, which made it a very enjoyable and productive framework.
I also think the language itself is a big plus. I don't like the reflection system or hot patching being a feature in a language, but rails makes extensive use of it to create it's own domain specific language.
And do sometimes think of small apps i could build for fun, but the thought of doing react, again, is tiring in and of itself lol plus the whole setup around getting express running and picking packages.
Rails is ready out of the box, for me to not have to screw around with.
Just love the ruby syntax(along with python, which i am actively learning now with datacamp). Its cleaner, and i can probably do 90% of what i do in react there. Then for the rest throw solid js or svelte, or even just react for specific components.
I'm not a big fan of watching tutorials, but more of learning by doing but I signed up for https://gorails.com when I started out and it was very helpful to get an overview.
Does anyone here have any recommendations for free or at least very cheap Rails hosting for a toy app just for learning purposes? I’m looking for a PaaS offering since I don’t have the time to secure and manage a VPS.
You'll still be spinning up a VPS, but at least set up and management is done via a very heroku-like interface from your local machine. Just get any VPS that will be accessible via SSH, and `kamal setup` can handle the rest. [1]
The one annoying part right now, is it relies on a docker registry you have to provide. I think they're working on removing that requirement, but you can use the free github container registry until then. It's just for rollbacks AFAIK.
[0] https://kamal-deploy.org/
[1] https://kamal-deploy.org/docs/installation/
https://fly.io/docs/rails/getting-started/
I know sqlite3 is great, but I've always found it much more annoying to use it on a server for small side projects than just using Postgres where I could just connect to the prod instance from my local machine and run some queries to look at the data. With sqlite I'd always have to sync files, set up volumes, make sure permissions are correct vs. just setting an environment variable to a PG instance.
I do share your preference on using Postgres as the main database. Having that as the main db with sqlite3 used for auxiliary functionality sounds great.
It cuts through all the mess of modern web development so well and makes turning an idea in to something deployable incredibly easy.
...but as someone using it in Anger for a few years now, I long for the day I can say goodbye to it and never look back, for all the usual reasons.
But I disagree that it's consistent or that it leads to consistency.
The "Rails way" or "DHH way" of building apps is indeed consistent, but most big teams eschew this in the name of more complicated (and less consistently applied) patterns.
It follows the Anna Karenina principle to a T. All good codebases are alike and follow the Rails way; each bad codebase is bad in its own way and uses bullshit like Trailblazer, Active Interactors, over-engineered Service Objects or some other bullshit. Sometimes all of them at the same time.
The Rails part has been easy to maintain and adapt to users' frequent changes, the main issues being feature requests for very complicated queries which then end up being slow. Vue has taken up a lot of time with the migration from 2 -> 3 (still not finished).
I’ve been using rails for over 20 years and still love it but the JavaScript story has always been in flux in bad ways. I don’t like the turbo stuff or stimulus. Basically just want to be able to add some nice charts, and some enhancements like confirmation for links. Basically just build admins with it so the caching for partial html just isn’t part of the game. Looked at upgrading to rails 8 now but the javascript in last version of rails was fragmented and complicated, so looking to find a good way to do it in a standard way now, hopefully next version of rail’s doesn’t change everything again.
https://guides.rubyonrails.org/working_with_javascript_in_ra...
- Adding npm Packages with importmap-rails To add new packages to your import map-powered application, run the bin/importmap pin command from your terminal:
$ bin/importmap pin react react-dom
Then, import the package into application.js as usual:
import ReactDOM from "react-dom"
For me, Stimulus adds just the right amount of structure over Vanilla JS.
And Turbo/Hotwire feels like building skyscrapers with wood vs. steel.
You do have to pick an auth lib (most use Next-Auth aka Auth.js) but Rails needed auth lib until Rails 8 a couple months ago.
The traction behind Next.js is so large, it's much bigger than Rails, Django, and Laravel for new projects the last couple years: https://trends.stackoverflow.co/?tags=next.js,ruby-on-rails,...