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Posted by u/anshrathodfr a year ago
Show HN: I completed shipping my desktop apppimosa.app/...
Hi, I'm a developer and first time i shipped the real product after observing the startups and indie hackers community for years.

I had made so many useless apps [you should check my website https://ansh.life], but this time I built a very useful product that has a number of super easy-to-use tools in one app for video, music, and photo files. Users can compress, convert, resize, and do so much more with easy-to-use tools.

Background: I developed a frame-by-frame video cropper to upload cropped landscape videos to Instagram Reels. However, it required FFmpeg, and as a noob video editor, I decided to incorporate more user-friendly video tools. I then introduced image and audio tools to maximize the capabilities of FFmpeg. I use my app daily, and it has surprisingly generated a few thousand dollars for me.

Boldened15 · a year ago
Looks great, beautiful landing page and it looks like a labor of love!

- Most of the page titles are the (same)[1] which doesn't seem good for SEO. Each of the pages like "Pricing" or "Compress Your Video Files" should be differently named.

- The "video compressor" tool would be much more useful if you could enter a target file size. This is a frequent use case, if you want to send a video over email or social media apps like Messenger with a file size limit. The only way I've been able to do that for myself is basically encode it repeatedly with ffmpeg at various quality settings until the file size is just small enough, but you could probably automate that with something more intelligent like a good guess and a binary search. I'm sure someone's made a library to do that already though.

- It needs a whole bunch of features related to subtitles, like making a subtitled GIF from a video file with subtitles.

- Maybe risky to include copyrighted work like the Spider-Verse movie in the demo video? Unless you really did rip it legally from a Blu-ray.

- There are random grammar mistakes and capitalization issues throughout the site, nothing major but worth a pass by a native English speaker. "What kinda files Pimosa supports?" and "Every files gets processed on your device only" as some examples. Might give some people pause.

- Could be worth to have a more prominent "Download" box at the top section that automatically detects your OS. Most landing pages have that so I assume it works.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fpimosa....

bennythomsson · a year ago
> beautiful landing page

I disagree. Any page that sports a big "buy now" button without even scrolling but has at that point not even shown me a single screenshot will have a hard time catching my attention. I didn't look further.

mjmsmith · a year ago
Conversely, any page that makes me hunt around for the price loses me. You really can't please everyone.
fruit_snack · a year ago
It’s pretty much textbook to have a primary CTA above the fold on a landing page like this.

Would love to see examples of nice landing pages that _don’t_ do this and also aren’t big enough companies that you’ve already heard of them (10b plus companies may not need to do this as they’ve earned the scroll in brand recognition and likely have more than one product line).

klabetron · a year ago
> - There are random grammar mistakes and capitalization issues throughout the site, nothing major but worth a pass by a native English speaker. …

Can I get a discount if I copy edit your site and docs for you? :) But, yea, agree that the typos give pause.

> - Could be worth to have a more prominent "Download" box …

And make it more clear what downloading gets you. Is it a trial? Or just a version of the app that doesn’t save?

Reading through the site and docs, I get the impression you’ve spent more time getting license keys to work than anything else. Certainly at least in the way of docs.

Congrats on the first release.

zwnow · a year ago
Does SEO really matter still? I have seen a few videos that show how the SEO algorithm works a few months ago, at least googles, and you basically can't optimize in that regard.
shahzaibmushtaq · a year ago
The app developer showing his desktop app here is also a part of SEO, so it always matters.
JoeOfTexas · a year ago
For search engines, not so much. But it helps for linking to pages on social media.
maciekpaprocki · a year ago
SEO very much does count. And on site optimisation is the easiest return on investment as it's generally not a lot of work. few hours of work can bring you tons of clients.
eps · a year ago
While you are not too far into selling - a word of advice.

Switch to offering a year of free updates and charge a small fee after that.

Trust me. You will coverge to this scheme sooner or later, so do it now.

  -
Standalone Windows installer is a must.

Windows Store is still a deserted wasteland and is not a default choice for the vast majority of Windows users. You are losing a ton of users over this.

  -
ffmpeg and other dependencies need to be acknowledged for both ethical and technical reasons. The technical reason is that your app doesn't depend on OS-supplied codecs and doesn't require installing them separately. And ethical reasons I hope are obvious.

rubymamis · a year ago
The problem with distributing standalone installers on Windows is that all non-popular apps are immediately regarded as malware by Windows Defender unless you go through the horrendous process of signing your app, which requires obtaining a certificate (which also requires forming a company that is not an LLC) and waiting more than a month while navigating multiple rounds of bureaucracy. I’ve done it for my app, and it was a terrible experience. Microsoft should study how Apple handles signing and notarization.

EDIT: spelling.

huhtenberg · a year ago
> signing your app, which requires obtaining a certificate (which also requires forming a company that is not an LLC) and waiting more than a month while navigating multiple rounds of bureaucracy.

This is not true, not as phrased.

A. You can get a cert issued in your personal name. Not an EV one, but still.

B. You are likely to already have a company if you are selling online.

C. It doesn't take "a month" even for an EV cert. Several days tops unless you go through Comodo, in which case you get what you pay for.

D. It is perfectly fine to distribute unsigned installers. They produce a warning on launch, granted, but contrary to the urban legend they are not getting instantly shit-canned by the Defender.

bagels · a year ago
Just went through the code signing odyssey. It is a racket, but it did not take me a month. It took me a week and a half, including integration in to automated builds.
9cb14c1ec0 · a year ago
Azure trusted signing for the win. Only $9.99/month.
kryptocannon · a year ago
> which also requires forming a company that is not an LLC

I always thought that an LLC was sufficient, what's the actual requirement if an LLC is not enough?

spacechild1 · a year ago
> Standalone Windows installer is a must.

100% agree! I've been using Windows for over 20 years and I haven't installed a single app through Windows Store.

thr0waway001 · a year ago
Can you elaborate on the ethical reasons? I should mention that I'm not very smart.
me-vs-cat · a year ago
FFmpeg's license has various requirements, including: "Give prominent notice with each copy of the Combined Work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License."
swyx · a year ago
he is standing on shoulders of giants, itd be nice if they just got a simple thank you.
pletnes · a year ago
As far as I understand, windows store is no longer available on enterprise windows. So if you want to sell a business app, it is not even an option.
MetaWhirledPeas · a year ago
It's still there on the version of Windows 11 I use at my office.
firemelt · a year ago
can u elaborate more? why 1 year and small fee after?
zac23or · a year ago
AWS can make billions from open source. On the other hand, solo developers who try the same path are basically seen as scammers.

Ironic.

And creating a good user interface is very, very hard. Otherwise Gimp wouldn't be the monstrosity it is.

gitaarik · a year ago
Well I think Amazon and many other huge companies are having many unethical activities, and I think we should not think that if big companies do certain things, that it should be ok for us to do it too.

HN is a community of hackers, not business people that are only commercially interested. But Hackers need money too, so we also need to be a little bit commercial. But it would be ideal if we could be commercial without having to give up the hacker ethic.

But many people don't believe it's easy to be open source and commercial at the same time. Why would people pay if they don't have to?

I'm thinking of a new form of software licencing: what if we make a license that says that a particular piece of software must become open source after for example 5 years. Then the developer can sell the software they wrote for 5 years long, and after that it will become open source.

This would give FOSS developers more motivation to create software, and the community will benefit eventually, so people won't feel too hesitative paying for the software, because it will eventually benefit everyone.

zac23or · a year ago
> HN is a community of hackers, not business people

From what I read here daily, it is becoming an anti-hacker, anti-worker, anti-individual and pro-big business community.

One of the proofs is this theread. You can see People defending AWS... BUT my point is not AWS is wrong, but supporting AWS and criticizing individuals is what is wrong.

And no one noticed this, and has already started defending AWS.

This is something...

johnsutor · a year ago
This license is called a Fair-Source License https://fair.io/
p4bl0 · a year ago
Nobody is saying it's a problem to sell a user-friendly wrapper GUI to people who need it. And nobody should be saying creating those is easy. However the developer has to acknowledge the underlying open source tools (FFmpeg and ImageMagick) somewhere on their app's website. Otherwise, yes, there's a clear ethical issue in implying the heavy back-end work is done by your code.
dymk · a year ago
This hand wringing makes it sound like it doesn’t matter what the guy does, HN will find some reason to call it sour grapes.
scarface_74 · a year ago
AWS makes billions from managing servers at scale.
dbalatero · a year ago
Come on, that's not all they do. They also resell open source as better-UXified tooling. RDS is "just" repackaged postgres/redis/etc with a more convenient dont-have-to-peek-under-the-hood as much dev experience.
datavirtue · a year ago
With gobs of OSS
p4bl0 · a year ago
The website doesn't even mention FFmpeg which is the open source tool that does all the heavy work. Building a user-friendly GUI is a valuable work in itself (congrats on that, sincerely), but it's not okay to hide the open source tool that does all the work in the background.

It should at least be visible in the FAQ that the open source FFmpeg tool is used by the app, with an appropriate link to FFmpeg's website. The tool could be described from the start as a "User-friendly FFmpeg front-end" (but I would understand that this may not speak to its target audience, hence the idea of putting the information way down the page in the FAQ or even the footer, but at least don't hide it).

pandemic_region · a year ago
In general I agree, it gives me a sense of wholesomeness when companies open up about this and give credit to the authors of the libraries that their product contains. Credits.md somewhere is sufficient for that to me.
anshrathodfr · a year ago
There is a dedicated page for credits: https://pimosa.app/credits
rq1 · a year ago
I’ll try to not be dismissive of the labour, though it’s kind of funny (or actually natural) that the heavy lifting libraries that only a few can actually write are open and free, while the shallow wrappers that everyone can write are paid and closed.

Decades ago we were calling out these software and now it’s the norm.

Another example along the line: I wanted to extract a frame from a video on iOS, it’s impossible with the built-in tools (screenshot aside) and found that someone built a paid app only for that.

I tell you where we’re heading, we’re screwed.

lagrange77 · a year ago
While i'm with you in principle, over the years i've learned that we should not talk down good UI/UX, if that's what the wrapper adds. It's a crucial component to the value of a piece of software for the end user.
ChrisMarshallNY · a year ago
This is true.

I have seen absolutely miraculous backends, totally pooched, because the library developer thought that GUI was for "wusses."

bennythomsson · a year ago
He actually himself writes that he doesn't want to spend too much time on his apps:

> now i have lession that i shouldnt build apps that consumes so much time.

Sounds like somebody really devoted to the perfect UI experience.

Look, I don't want to talk down this kid. Everybody starts somewhere and I like the enthusiasm. But him expecting to make $30 off everybody for plumbing together a bunch of FOSS libs is rubbing me the wrong way.

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RamblingCTO · a year ago
Distribution, marketing and running it is the hard part, not building software. I consider libraries to be like roads, it's a communal good if you will. Feel free to build and run these apps yourself in the open instead of complaining. You will see how time consuming that is.
bennythomsson · a year ago
Building a road is usually very similar to building another road.

Building ffmpeg is very different from an SSL lib. They need different tradeoffs, design strategies, domain knowledge, etc. And doing them properly is really really hard. A lot of software out there sucks, in part because there is more focus on marketing than on correctness and reliability.

If roads had the same quality as software then traffic deaths would be an order of magnitude higher.

Try working on a library used in tech that your life depends on and you might re-consider your road metaphor.

BoorishBears · a year ago
> Distribution, marketing and running

Case in point: I regularly use a free iOS app that is clearly the result of someone's deep passion in taking what could have been a simple wrapper and turning it into an incredibly simple but powerful interface to complete a useful task efficiently and at any scale... and that task is exactly what OP was trying to do...

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/frame-grab/id1319670797

But as someone who's somewhat familiar with app store optimization, I guarantee the creator did none of that that.

Their app name would need to be something obnoxious like "Frame Grabber Extractor: Pic from Video" to capture all the different searches people do for this task.

And the people focused on distribution are even paying for ads with the money they make their IAP infested "1 week trial; $4 a week" alternatives make.

monsieurbanana · a year ago
What you mention is the hard part is only because the foundational blocks are free and open source (in this example). Not that marketing would become easy, it's still difficult, but not write-ffmpeg-from-scratch difficult.
pplonski86 · a year ago
What is more, many people expect that software that they are trying will be open source and free. It makes really hard to create a new desktop app that is paid as a solo founder. Congratulations!
pdyc · a year ago
its not just shallow wrapper, as a creator of other shallow wrapper(online and free btw) if you want to crop a video how do you plan to do it with ffmpeg cli? it would be really tedious to do so. You can easily do it visually with this wrapper and other such wrappers so its not like they are not providing value. Another example is do you remember ffmpeg command syntax? i don't! here he is taking care of generating it for you so you don't waste time asking llm or searching for google and iterating on it if it doesn't works.
BoorishBears · a year ago
It is literally a shallow wrapper!

There's nearly 2 million lines of code in the FFMPEG codebase: unless you're building the next Adobe Premiere, no matter how much value you provide, you are building an extremely shallow wrapper around FFMPEG when you build an interface to crop videos.

No one is saying a shallow wrapper can't provide value, but most of the value for the end user is derived from FFMPEG, not the layer you added to it.

If we took FFMPEG and your wrapper and separated them, FFMPEG could still do the one task that your users need: it would be harder, and it would be less convenient, but it can still crop videos. Your tool would no longer do anything but draw rectangles where we'd like a crop to appear. It'd meet no user needs at all.

-

Also to clarify my stance, there's nothing wrong with shallow wrappers, and I've made shallow wrappers: I know finding the user need, and thinking of the right UX and figuring out distribution is all a lot of real legwork.

But I also find it's important to realize when most of the value you're providing is enabled by something you built on. There shouldn't be shame in admitting that you wrapped something that was powerful and potentially unwieldy for your segment of users and made it useful.

bennythomsson · a year ago
Of course they provide value! They car dealer selling you that new Toyota also provides value. Without him you couldn't buy that car, certainly not so easily.

Doesn't mean he manufactured it, or invented it, or conceived of the very idea of an automobile with an ICE (or EV). It's all a big collaborative effort, and imagining that all of the $40k for that car go straight into the dealer's pocket would be absurd. Legally absurd, and ethically absurd as well.

Similar with a piece of software that builds on other work. Of course it provides value (hopefully). But on the whole, the extra value added is not the majority of the whole package.

criddell · a year ago
I think you are underestimating how difficult making a great UI is (although I haven’t used this application so I can’t say if it’s great or not).
bennythomsson · a year ago
And you might be underestimating the work that went into those libraries.

We are talking decades of work, dealing with platform issues, performance, loads of security considerations and then there is the whole licensing+patent topic.

Sure UI work is hard, but of the whole package, it's only the visible part of the iceberg and now I'm expected to give $30 to the person who only contributed that last piece? Of course it's work too but if not at least half that money is being donated to the underlying FOSS projects then I'm out.

Another suggestion: open source your app. Those who don't know how to compile/build it, or are too lazy, which will be most, they can pay for the convenience, and you'll have the income you expect, but at least you are giving back to the community on whose work you are basing yours.

> self-taught full-stack developer who wrote the first line of code in the 2020 Corona lockdown.

You my friend are standing on the shoulders of giants. Time to ack them.

lovasoa · a year ago
Making a good user interface is definitely not easy. Yet it's orders of magnitude easier than writing ffmpeg.

That said, there is nothing wrong with a paid wrapper around a large and complex open source library. Distributing their work more widely is not a disservice.

rokhayakebe · a year ago
Water is free, but you pay some company because they bottled it. While free, it would have cost most people a ton to go find a source and carry it back. These wrappers are a good thing.
zulban · a year ago
If you're concerned about open and free software I'm not sure using iOS makes a lot of sense. Of all mobile and desktop platforms, iOS has the highest barrier to entry for the free utilities you're hoping to find. Were you surprised you couldn't find your free utility on iOS?
xnx · a year ago
The authors and maintainers of foundational code/utilities like ffmpeg/curl/etc. should definitely be the ones who have all the riches they could ever want. Thousands have made fortunes off of their work.

That said, what's the free and open source version of this tool? There are some great open source video editors like Shotcut, Openshot, KDENLive, Blender, etc., but I think this tool is more like CyberChef for video?

6SixTy · a year ago
>what's the free and open source version of this tool?

PowerToys is Free and Open Source, and has at minimum an image resizer utility. It's a good starting point for adding on richer functionality like a preview GUI, and I'm sure that the basic video and audio manipulation would be appreciated as additions. Also since it's a Microsoft sponsored project, I imagine that the signing process is drastically different than what OP has experienced.

I know that's really not satisfying to say that "someday we could have this in the FOSS space", but everything starts somewhere.

Though editors like Shotcut and KDENLive are considered non linear since you can layer on different effects, while OP's utility is definitely not that.

buildbuildbuild · a year ago
Perhaps the author would consider open sourcing if they received financial compensation for their work to date? Crowdfunding or retroactive grants can liberate code.

Context: a big chunk of my 2024 income was from grant money to build open source software that I may have tried to monetize otherwise. It’s possible.

nullpilot · a year ago
Are there any must-know options for receiving grants?
anonu · a year ago
I think you have a warped perspective. Not everyone has the time or skills to use CLI tools. People will pay to save time. The market is multi faceted and complex and there's a market for everything. In this case you're just not the customer.
progx · a year ago
Then why you not write free open source UIs for the libs?
Pidaymou · a year ago
Simple because he can't and it's easy to throw smug opinions around the internet.
chasing · a year ago
Making a friendly interface that doesn’t require the user to have to install a new tool is a value-add. Maybe the average power-user doesn’t need it, but it doesn’t seem entirely sinister.
newsclues · a year ago
I’m actually really fond of the model: here are the tools you can do anything with them but here is packed bundles that do something and the ecosystem is funded by selling bundles which often are just a UX for the tools and having them preconfigured.

Gives everyone the option of picking free or paid options, depending on people’s needs.

Deleted Comment

p4bl0 · a year ago
Upvoting you because my comment saying the same thing is getting downvotes and I really think the message is important.

However I don't think it's fair to call this a "shallow wrapper". It's clear that a lot of work went into the design of this GUI and, and making user-friendly interfaces is also an important work (that is far too often overlooked in the open sources communities).

Yet the fact that FFmpeg, the tool that does all the heavy background work, isn't even mentioned anywhere on the website, even in the FAQ or the footer is at least a non-negligible ethical problem.

UPDATE: The same goes for ImageMagick that I just saw this app installs and uses too.

zvr · a year ago
I have not downloaded the app, so I don't know what it contains.

The licenses for both ffmpeg and ImageMagick do not require anyone to mention them in the website.

However, if they are being re-distributed, there are clear obligations for providing source code and attributions. Omitting to do so is a violation of the legal obligations.

bagels · a year ago
Ffmpeg is in just about anything that deals with video, almost never with explicit mention anywhere you can find it.
nipponese · a year ago
Consider that someone talented enough to write a library probably has a much higher salary potential than a front-end hacker. Shouldn't the latter be allowed to eat, as undignified as you may find it?
hombre_fatal · a year ago
Well, the “last mile” of value add that makes something useful to end users (esp non-technical ones) is the “last 90%” of the job.

We dismiss these things as wrappers on HN because we like to believe that the technical side is 90% of the work.

But this belief has an easy antidote: ask to see the "UX" (lmao) we built.

promptdaddy · a year ago
The core of your comment is mere jealousy. Why open source a project if it's not to be used.

Deleted Comment

rhinoceraptor · a year ago
It looks awesome and very handy, I found a few minor UI issues, I'm trying the Windows version on a 4k monitor.

* The "< Home" button when you enter video/audio/photo tools is only clickable and changes color when hovering below the text, I would suggest making that a larger blue button. This doesn't happen for the "< Back" button which is in the same area when you're in a tool

* If the upper image crop handles are all the way at the top, they aren't clickable, they don't show the resize cursor. When you drag them it moves the window instead of the crop handle

I have a few suggestions:

* I'm not sure how feasible this is, but I think video should have a similar combined crop/flip/rotate UI instead of separate ones like for photos

* It seems like batch processing is a first class notion in the app, which is definitely very handy, but I think maybe it should be a mode toggled by a radio? I think a lot of use cases are just one off uses, in which case the UI can be made a lot simpler. If I'm just working on one file, I would prefer to be dropped right into the tool editor rather than having to click edit.

* 2 devices for the extended license is still a little too limited in my opinion. I would make it so authenticating the app to a computer requires access to the email that purchased it, and then make the extended license unlimited. I don't think you have to worry about that getting used for a team since it would require access to the email account.

layer8 · a year ago
Regarding the last point, I’ve seen companies doing exactly this, making the purchase through an admin account and relating the license info to each employee that needs it.

Nevertheless, I agree that two devices is too restrictive, it should be five or so.

senkora · a year ago
Small nitpick: on your user testimonials, you list reddit users as r/<username> when the correct way to do it is u/<username>.
latexr · a year ago
> Small nitpick

Nitpick on your nitpick: By definition, all nitpicks are small. This isn’t important, but I thought you might appreciate the meta commentary.

csallen · a year ago
Even though saying "small nitpick" is redundant in terms of its literal meaning (denotation), communication is about more than simple denotation. It's also about emphasis, tone, and emotions, and saying "small nitpick" can be a good way to soften criticism and add a little humility and politeness.
MichaelApproved · a year ago
Nitpick on your nitpick: It’s possible for something to be small, relative to something that is already considered small.

Things that are considered small can still have variations in the extent of their smallness.

krsdcbl · a year ago
nitpick on your nitpick on the nitpick: a "metacommentary" would be if you'd be commenting on your own text. That's even less important, but I thought you might appreciate such asides
kyrra · a year ago
May I suggest not offering lifetime updates? All software that does this ends up getting around it in the end because they realize they need to get more money from existing customers to actually stay afloat. Normally by releasing the product under a slightly different name or some other sleight of hand.

The model like jetbrains does with IntelliJ I think is decent. Or look at smaller software like sublime text or ArqBackup (we're a license is forever for a specific major release of the software)

adastra22 · a year ago
Maybe I'm old school, but I won't "buy" (rent?) subscriptions for software. I expect to own it outright, at to receive at least security updates for a reasonable time period.
layer8 · a year ago
There is a middle ground in that you buy the current major version and get updates to it, but you would have to pay again if you ever want to upgrade to the next major version. (If you don’t want to, you can still continue to use the version you bought indefinitely.)
aktuel · a year ago
These are three different models:

1) Free lifetime updates 2) No subscription, but limited updates 3) Subscription model

The parent was suggesting no. 2 (what you would find acceptable as well).

rhubarbtree · a year ago
I just don't think the old model of "one shot" software works. Firstly, security updates. Next, dependencies change over time and you want the software to still work. Third, adding new features and keeping it integrated with the OS / UI kits etc. requires ongoing work.

In theory you could have a single binary that never changes, ever, but it's just unrealistic.

Subscription models are fine, Jetbrains is the fallback if you're going to be super adamant about refusing to fund ongoing development, but software is not like other products. Maybe in the past when it was very simple within a simple ecosystem it was different.

There's something to be said for reducing the pricing to something more sustainable and more explicity upstream donations, but "pay once, have the developer continue to work for me for free if I keep it long enough" isn't realistic.

anshrathodfr · a year ago
You're right, most of people wont buy this app if it had subscription-based model
dragonwriter · a year ago
> I expect to own it outright

Unless you are the legal creator or buy the copyright, you never own software outright, you license it from the owner (or its public domain and has no owner.)

eps · a year ago
Well, yeah, that's what the GP is suggesting.
thfuran · a year ago
Do you expect to receive a free car every new model year after buying one outright?
bennythomsson · a year ago
The explanation is that this will be abandonware pretty soon after he moved on and made enough $$$ off this project.

Just read his webpage, it's quite obvious.

tempodox · a year ago
BBEdit has been sold via payed upgrades since forever and Bare Bones seems to be doing fine. As a user, I like this model best. I will only ever buy a subscription if I absolutely have to.
kyrra · a year ago
That's why I suggested looking at ArqBackup, which I believe has the same model as BBEdit.