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dang · a year ago
Recent and related:

Plasticlist Report – Data on plastic chemicals in Bay Area foods - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42525633 - Dec 2024 (188 comments)

eabnelson · a year ago
i've recently have been frustrated by the tooling out there to identify plastics in consumer products and just released https://getplasticfree.com/

think it would be a helpful tool for people interested in this topic!

kbaker · a year ago
hmm, I think some of your ratings might be very misleading. One of the ideas behind plasticlist was looking at things like plastic packaging leaching into the product itself, which wouldn't be in the ingredients list.

For example, you list Fairlife Core Power Chocolate Protein Shake as 100/100 but it is on the plasticlist report as containing levels of DEHP and DEHT, likely coming from the packaging. Not sure what an accurate rating would be, but not 100 for sure.

Maybe it works for non-food items better, but for food it might be counterproductive.

eabnelson · a year ago
yep that is a great point! I am taking a generalized approach for now and have started to filter out food as a category.
tonymet · a year ago
We're at an interesting inflection point with plastic recycling, where people have generally accepted it's a scam, and the environmental contamination with microplastics becomes too big of a cost to overcome.

This group is calling for foods companies to test all of their inputs. Eventually it is going to point to recycling's plastic processing & grinding stage.

asdasdsddd · a year ago
Why are wood cutting boards outlawed for commercial kitchens.
UniverseHacker · a year ago
Plastic cutting boards are mostly just plain undyed polyethylene (HDPE)- which is just a fully saturated perfectly straight hydrocarbon, similar to saturated fat or wax and lacks the kind of reactive functional groups that make other plastic polymers toxic. I think it is quite unlikely that HDPE in particular is toxic or endocrine disrupting to humans in the way a lot of other plastics seem to be.

It's also basically just a very viscous fluid and I suspect would flow into grooves when a knife blade hits it, without releasing particles like harder more solid plastics would.

Personally, I try to avoid having most plastics contact my food and water, but make an exception for HDPE.

In general, each plastic polymer is very different from another chemically, and it makes sense to consider their safety independently, and not group all plastics together.

kleton · a year ago
Silicon dioxide is not chemically toxic. But you can put microfiber crystals of it in a mammal's lungs and get tumors that grow around them. It is not a huge stretch of the imagination from there to hypothesize that nano- and micro-particles of a nontoxic polymer could also cause problems.
_DeadFred_ · a year ago
The problem is cutting boards break off little bits of plastic with use and your body has evolved zero mechanism for disposing of microplastics once they are in your system.

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2023/10/making-meals-...https://phys.org/news/2024-12-microplastics-multiple-human-t...

bilsbie · a year ago
That’s a good point. Why do they say water bottles are so bad? Can’t they use something like hdpe?
timr · a year ago
> Plastic cutting boards are mostly just plain undyed polyethylene (HDPE)- which is just a fully saturated perfectly straight hydrocarbon, similar to saturated fat or wax and lacks the kind of reactive functional groups that make other plastic polymers toxic.

This is all just completely made up -- starting with the assertion that "plastic polymers" (whatever those are; you're not being specific enough to have a debatable claim) are "toxic" in the first place.

altairprime · a year ago
IIRC it’s because plastic cutting boards can be put into a sanitizing dishwasher with reliable minimum-effort sanitary outcomes, whereas wood cutting boards require more rigorous care to remain sanitary and so the US generally bans their use rather than allowing rigor as an option. In the US, rigor is historically something one can trust food producers to sacrifice first in favor of turnaround time, profits, etc. so it does make sense that they’ve just given up and disallowed it. For possible exceptions, look into bamboo cookware and/or sushi preparation?
xyzzy123 · a year ago
This makes sense as long as they're replaced on a regular schedule, which again is low effort and easy to verify.
Wertulen · a year ago
Well, for one, they're not. "Apparently" in their post implies that they are, but instead signals that they haven't done any actual research. For instance, hard wood cutting boards are permissible for use in Wisconsin: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/admin_code/atcp/055/75...

The USDA also recommends wooden cutting boards be used so long as they are properly washed and sanitized before and after use: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and...

The main issues with using wood are 1) that generally you don't want to put them in a dishwasher, 2) it's trickier to track cross-contamination as you might with color-coded boards, and 3) they're much more expensive than plastic.

rad_gruchalski · a year ago
> Although very beautiful and functional, they require proper sanitation and careful maintenance. Being, in fact, the wood is a living and porous material, it is not advisable to sanitize the cutting board daily, as this could risk the proliferation of germs and bacteria.

https://www.euroceppi.com/en/blog-en/why-cant-wooden-cutting...

Makes sense to me, I never process meat at home on a wooden board. Only plastic and dishwasher after use.

blackeyeblitzar · a year ago
But couldn’t a knife hitting a plastic board shed micro particles into your food?
secstate · a year ago
An excellent point. Most modern germ theory says all bacteria is bad. This, despite the fact that our guts are full of bacteria and that you simply cannot avoid ingesting bacteria. Nevermind that plenty of wood cutting boards are full of beneficial bacteria that keeps listeria and e. coli at bay.

Edit: Also there are literally some forms of cheese that you cannot make in sanitized stainless steel. The combination of bacteria you need needs to be impregnated in the wood.

lukas099 · a year ago
> Most modern germ theory says all bacteria is bad.

I've never heard anyone say this.

PlunderBunny · a year ago
It’s interesting that, if you go to a wet market in many Asian countries (e.g. Hong Kong) you will see the butchers cutting meat on wooden chopping blocks where the cutting surface is _grain up_ - typically a circular section of a log. I thought “surely this is the worst possible orientation for the wood?” I think they clean the blocks by using hot and cold water to expand and contract the wood, and scraping it with the blade of their knives.
NumberWangMan · a year ago
I believe that if you're doing some heavy chopping, that orientation keeps the cutting board in good condition for the longest time, as you're not cutting through the wood grain and taking chunks out of the board.

Separately I've heard that while bacteria can live in wood cutting boards, they tend to stay where they are rather than migrate out of the board and into the food -- but I can't back that up with any actual references.

SoftTalker · a year ago
Wood tends to draw moisture in, I'd think especially if "grain up," leading to a dry surface which is not very hospitable to bacterial growth.
everdrive · a year ago
Seems like it would be simply enough for a household to just have at least two cutting boards:

One for anything which is not likely to harbor dangerous bacteria. (eg: vegetables, bread, etc.)

One of meat, which gets cut and then gets cooked, and so theoretically a bit of bacteria is no issue in any case.

I can see how this would be much tougher for a commercial kitchen, though.

Aurornis · a year ago
No, you need to clean and disinfect to kill bacteria regardless.

Cooking meat does not kill the toxic byproducts of bacteria. Many bacteria produces enterotoxins, which survive cooking and cause what we know as "food poisoning".

You would not want your cutting board harboring and growing these bacteria under any circumstances, even if you're cooking the product you're cutting.

shermantanktop · a year ago
You could stop eating meat instead. But unfortunately vegetables can get cross-contaminated with animal products during growing/harvesting/processing. So even vegetarians like me have this risk, albeit at lower levels, along with contamination from non-animal sources.
maxwell · a year ago
Commercial kitchens use color coded cutting boards AFAIK.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/3053/cutting-boards.html?fi...

digitallis42 · a year ago
Wood is porous and unable to be fully sanitized, as well as absorbing and giving back off everything from soaps and sanitizers to food flavors. Example: chop a few onions on a wood cutting board. Clean and dry. Then the next day wet your cutting board and give it a sniff. The onion is still there.

It also has trouble with repeated washing cycles as a material.

There's some evidence that biologically, wood fibers will dessicate and shred bacterias, and there's the historical anecdotal evidence of wood cutting boards having been used throughout history, but those anecdotes aren't enough for commercial kitchen operation where food needs to be able to be given to all comers, including infirm, allergic or immunocompromised.

ska · a year ago
Food safety. It's ironic that in a home setting they can often be better than plastic (people typically don't clean plastic well enough, or replace often enough), but you can't sanitize them like you typically would in a commercial prep area, so they are disallowed/discouraged (based on jurisdiction).
Freak_NL · a year ago
The thing about replacing them frequently is that that goes against the principle of using something until it is worn out. (That is, reducing the amount of plastic we use.) I'm not sure if this is a problem, or if there are better solutions (I use wooden chopping boards for vegetables and fruit of course).
0_____0 · a year ago
Are folks not simply throwing their plastic cutting boards in the dishwasher after finishing prep? I basically always do, especially after cutting meat...
throwup238 · a year ago
Some jurisdictions also ban wood cutting boards in general but allow some made of closed-grain hardwood with like maple or walnut.
ziofill · a year ago
An argument that I’ve heard is that wooden boards can get more infected with bacterial colonies if not washed and maintained properly. I’m not sure how actually true this is though.
Jimmc414 · a year ago
Something this study has me concerned about is that regular piping hot cup of coffee served in a plastic cup. I didn’t see it in the plastic list, bit I’m near certain it’s not good for EDC and plastic ingestion
tonymet · a year ago
if I'm paying for coffee at a coffee shop and they don't have a ceramic mug, i cancel my order. I'd rather drink wine out of a solo cup
idbehold · a year ago
You may be disturbed to find out how much plastic is in contact with boiling hot water in your typical automatic drip coffee brewer.

I was recently trying to find one without plastic to replace the $25 all black plastic one I've had for years. The only one I could find without any plastic was one of those all metal Bunn ones you see at diners. It was more than $400! And even that still required you to purchase a separate all metal basket as the one that comes with it was plastic. And that coffee maker doesn't really make "good tasting" coffee. Any premium "good tasting" drip coffee maker will have plastic, and probably black plastic at that.

nikolay · a year ago
I'm doing the same - both for health and taste reasons. Can't imagine drinking coffee in those waxed-paper cups that leaches massively into the coffee - you can even see the wax floating on top! I'm not sure how these ever got approved for hot liquids!

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