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MentatOnMelange · a year ago
Growing up, my family had 2 cats, both adopted at the same time as kittens. They slept curled up with each other and played together constantly.

One of them died suddenly years later. As painful as that was, it was even more heartbreaking to see our other cat dealing with his death. She did not understand why he had disappeared, and grew increasingly upset in the days following. Searching everywhere around the house making distressed meows at all hours. Demanding to have every door opened so she could search every inch of the house multiple times.

  After a week, she began to understand our other cat was not coming back. For at least a month, her appetite disappeared, she was grooming herself compulsively and needed to be near one of us 24/7.
This is only one anecdote… but to me the fact animals can grieve is beyond question

IMTDb · a year ago
Out of curiosity, did the surviving cat have a chance to see (and smell) the remains of the dead cat ? I know it's often advised to show to pets (cats and dogs at least) the remains of any human or other pets that die, so that they understand what happened and don't interpret this as "abandonment".

Similarly, families of people that disappear are often "relieved" when a body is found, since they can properly start to grief instead of clinging on some hopeless dream that their loved one might reappear out of thin air.

seanw444 · a year ago
That's a great point actually. I guess literally seeing the dead body of a loved one isn't so relieving to humans, but there's no way to communicate the death to an animal other than just visually. So that's probably the best way to go about it. I'm keeping that in mind for the future.
dpig_ · a year ago
I had two cats, siblings, growing up. One died unexpectedly. We thought about showing it to the other cat for closure, but decided instead that the cat might interpret it as a Mafia-type threat.
not2b · a year ago
We had a very similar experience when one of our two cats who had been together for many years died. The survivor was miserable to the point that we were worried about her. After a few months we adopted a kitten, and after a period of adjustment (lots of hissing at first), the old cat bonded with the new cat and seemed much happier.
shepherdjerred · a year ago
I have a similar experience. My cats were brothers and one disappeared (I allowed them to be indoors/outdoors). The remaining cat meowed constantly; it was incredibly sad.

I got a kitten a couple of months later and they bonded quickly. In my experience cats are always happier when they have a friend, which isn't surprising.

raxxorraxor · a year ago
Dogs can get terrible lovesickness for quite some time. Usually dogs get separated at least after the puppies are born and they are not at all amused by that. Perhaps separating them should be far more questionable than it is.

Parents had some beagles and they could never get enough affection from humans. But for some weeks they would just growl at you if you came near them. Also you could really see the sadness in their faces.

punyearthling · a year ago
My cat did this when my dog passed. The day it happened, she went to every spot our dog slept and cried. It was heartbreaking tbh
DidYaWipe · a year ago
Yeah, the title of this post is so odd. "Even dogs?" Of course dogs are included. Dogs and cats are often inseparable companions.
II2II · a year ago
Is it surprising the article would discuss that when it goes on to discuss cats been considered aloof, independent, and fickle in their affections? The cat/dog thing is yet another one of those stereotypes where many pet lovers could provide an abundance of evidence to the contrary.
thaumasiotes · a year ago
The title is driven by the fact that, in American mythology, dogs are the natural predator of cats.

In the same way that mice mythologically prefer to eat cheese.

Dead Comment

selykg · a year ago
I had to say goodbye to one of my cats on Monday. I found out she had cancer on Thursday after she collapsed. Did enough to keep her around and not in too much pain over the weekend but Monday was the day.

I cried my eyes out before taking her to the vet for the last time and she came up to me and licked my face and nibbled. She was an extremely affectionate cat.

I brought her back home so the other two could see/sniff her because I didn't want them to not understand that she just disappeared. One of them is definitely more concerned than the other.

Cats are pretty amazing creatures and while not all of them are super affectionate (my other two aren't) they seem to understand a lot more than we give them credit for. Mine always know and understand when I'm not feeling well and show it in their own ways. I will miss the hugs and cuddles from the one I said goodbye to... I needed those hugs and cuddles this week but the one that would give them wasn't with me anymore. Tough times.

I would encourage anyone to take the time with their animals and give them attention and love. You never know when a surprise may come and you have very little time to say goodbye.

nextaccountic · a year ago
> I brought her back home so the other two could see/sniff her because I didn't want them to not understand that she just disappeared. One of them is definitely more concerned than the other.

I also had a cat funeral when a cat died. I like to think that seeing and sniffing the dead body gave the other cats closure

selykg · a year ago
I've heard it's really important for bonded pairs. None of mine are bonded like that, but I still wanted to make sure I did the right thing and not make things worse than they already were.

I'd highly recommend others do it if possible just to be a little proactive in sparing our little furry critters some possible pain and suffering.

FriedrichN · a year ago
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has paid attention to their cats' behaviour when another pet dies. I remember when one of our four cats didn't come home, there were definitely changes in how the remaining three behaved. Apparently the cat got hit by a car and was found by someone and dumped in one of those bins where they dump dead animals for rendering. We took her home and laid her on the lawn so the other cats could know that she was dead. Each of the cats came one by one, giving it a sniff and concluding that she was dead. One of them however stayed with her until we took her away to bury her, an incredibly endearing display. It took a while before they all started acting like they did before.

And with the subsequent deaths of all the remaining cats, as they are all sadly deceased, I saw similar things happen.

We should not anthropomorphise animals, but that doesn't mean they don't have complex feelings or thoughts. If we find that even bees can "play", it's not that weird if cats can "grieve".

throwaway5752 · a year ago
It isn't just cats. Elephants mourn as do whales and dophins, dogs, cows, pigs, parrots and other birds, and apes (including humans) among others.

If one has any sort of biology background the silliness of these types of studies is clear. Humans are simply animals, there is nothing distinct about us aside from being further out on the distribution of cognitive ability.

It would be news if an advanced member of animalia didn't experience grief from the death of another. If an animal can enjoy the presence of another animal (as they clearly can) it should be assumed they can mourn their loss.

4oo4 · a year ago
If you have concerns about having to potentially put down a pet, find an at home euthanasia vet, IMO it's the best way to deal with this process. Having animals be able to see and smell the death happening helps them understand, you don't have to worry about transporting an animal in rough condition, and having them in a familiar environment when it happens makes it far less stressful for them. Last year, I had planned to have my dog put down a few weeks after his health started really declining, but when it was obvious that he was in unbearable pain, the vet agreed to come out later that day, on just a few hours notice, no questions asked.

The dog was very closely bonded to my two cats (who themselves are a bonded pair of litter mates) and having the dog euthanized this way allowed the cats to understand what happened. They were pretty distraught afterward (as was I) but weren't looking for him around the house. Their personalities changed in that they were more stressed out when I had company at the house, and didn't really return to normal until I adopted another dog about a month ago that they were able to bond with in a really similar way. Because of how closely the cats are bonded I definitely will need to use one when the time comes for either cat.

I really don't know how someone could deal with putting down animals all day, but if you can find a good one they are fantastic. In addition to helping my cats, it definitely helped me process the situation way better than if it had been done in a sterile setting at a vet's office.

solardev · a year ago
Biologically, it would be pretty strange for grieving to not have evolved pretty early on in the mammalian brain, no?

It would be pretty weird for a smart, social mammal to simply ignore the death of a beloved companion. Are there any social mammals that DON'T grieve? Maybe large herd/flock animals (deer, bat, rodents)...?

It was surprisingly hard to find a scientific consensus on this topic. Maybe there isn't one yet? It seemed obvious to me, but that's not data, just anecdotal experience with animals.

dtx1 · a year ago
> Are there any social mammals that DON'T grieve?

I remember a video of a hunter shooting a deer and the other deer around it didn't care and kept eating their grass. I suspect most cats are smarter than deers.

boomboomsubban · a year ago
Or the deer, constantly looking outside the herd for threats, did not understand what one deer suddenly falling over truly meant.

I doubt cats would immediately understand what was happening if one of them was suddenly shot by something they could not perceive either.

xg15 · a year ago
Even apart from the grieving, that sounds like very odd behaviour. Don't deer herds usually flee in all directions the moment they hear the bang of a shot? It seems weird they'd not react at all here.
thaumasiotes · a year ago
> Biologically, it would be pretty strange for grieving to not have evolved pretty early on in the mammalian brain, no?

Depends. How would it benefit the mammal?

kevingadd · a year ago
A stress response to the death of a fellow mammal could contribute to discouraging risk-seeking, maybe?
jncfhnb · a year ago
Social cooperation is immensely valuable. Grief over loss encourages solidarity and cooperation.
JohnBooty · a year ago
My personal opinion (which is I think at least loosely supported by research into animal vs. human memory) is that relative to humans, animals are very grounded in the present so they grieve much differently.

When a human's loved one dies, we miss them in the present moment... but we are also thinking of the past and future. We think of our days ahead without them and mourn the happy times in the past that can now not be repeated.

    It was surprisingly hard to find a scientific 
    consensus on this topic. 
There's no real objective way to measure feelings, particularly in animals.

Even in humans, you usually just have to ask the subject how they're feeling.

Behavior changes are at best kind of a decent proxy for making... educated guesses instead of uneducated guesses into an animal's feelings.

We could measure things like oxytocin and cortisol levels or take fMRIs, but good luck collecting those metrics without profoundly altering the animal's emotional state.

dpig_ · a year ago
That's a really good point. I think it's even possible that my personal experience of lack/grief/loss is 0% present-moment and 100% reflective. Noting of course that this includes reflection on the super-recent past / future.
astura · a year ago
I had two cats who lived together for 11 years, but they only barely tolerated each other, they didn't fight but they also didn't spend time together, play together, sleep together, or groom each other.

So when one died I was shocked that the other paced around yowling for days. I don't know if he missed her specifically or was just confused about where she was and his confusion is what was causing distress.

TheBozzCL · a year ago
Another anecdote to add to the pile.

We used to have semi-feral cats living in our shed. One time, one of them had kittens. Not too long after, our dogs broke into the fenced area around the shed and killed and ate the kittens. We only found some blood and bits and pieces, it was gruesome.

For quite a while, the mom went around meowing like crazy, she looked very distressed. I guess she didn’t see them die, there wan’t much for her to find and understand.

I really don’t know why our dogs were so aggressive towards smaller animals. They were perfectly fine with people and kids, but we has to keep them far away from the cats and chickens. I guess they learned from each other.

donatj · a year ago
Oh, I would absolutely believe it.

We were alerted our one cat had died suddenly in the bathtub to the sound of our other cat howling outside the bathroom door. The surviving cat then acted really strange for the next week or so.

g96alqdm0x · a year ago
this reads a little bit like your cat drowned, is that the case?
Jtsummers · a year ago
Probably not drowned. Cats, when sick, tend to find isolated places, probably cooler, where they will lay down. Tubs seem to be a common place for cats to go to near the end.
donatj · a year ago
Nope, not drowned. He had just died laying in our bathtub.

It was a place he liked to lay normally.