Man here, mid thirties. "Stuck" in a boring, but comfortable, 9-5 in tech. Trying to build a business on the side.
Every day feels like prison. I don't care about tech anymore in the way I used to care. I don't like working with people anymore. I hate the mental constraints of 9-5, hence I'm trying to build a business.
But the business doesn't work either. Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed and do bare minimum for yet another day. After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.
Most days feel like groundhog day. I'm not depressed. I train regularly (4-5 times a week), I don't abuse alcohol and never touched drugs. I did big change in my life recently: quit my soul crashing job, went to travel for extended period, moved to a different country, found a different job. It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm back to the same place I tried to escape back then, albeit in a different physical location and work place.
I have a comfortable life, nor luxury, neither poverty. Other than sport and building my business, I don't have any other hobbies or goals I pursuit. I'm in a relationship. I feel like I tick all "middle class" boxes, and yet I'm unhappy. I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years.
I want to change something but I don't know what. Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?
Jumping to a lifetime commitment as a kneejerk reaction is just so wild to me. Maybe start with a hobby? This guy is working a full time job and a side hustle, but doesn't seem to do anything for himself. What happens if he has kids and realizes he's still unfulfilled? It's not like he can just return them.
How tf are you gonna have the emotional capacity for kids if you don’t have it even for yourself??
As a counterpoint, I always have more capacity to help others than I do myself.
I did the „have children and all will be well“ thing and the guilt I have towards those children is great.
In my defence, I myself was a „child will save our relationship“-child - needless to say it didn’t work and left me with a giant question mark: why am I here?
Hence I am a biased observer, each to their own & your mileage will vary.
I was quite obviously a wanted child, and I still feel this way; we are thrown into the world with no regard for our own preference (obviously it can be no other way). Clearly most people take to it with little problem, but I've never really felt like I belong. I've mostly made peace with that, but would not wish it on a child.
You're outright stating OP is suffering from depression ("clearly depressed"). How is that assessment any better? In fact, it's probably worse because that's a clinical judgement.
In terms of the general advice that he build a family - how is that wrong or 'insane'? OP is looking for some kind of purpose or meaning in their life and coding isn't cutting it, and neither is building a tech startup, or travelling, or exercising. It just so happens that being part of a family and being responsible for their welfare has provided purpose for much of humanity throughout our existence. At the very least, it gives you a solid reason why you should get out of bed (the kids need to eat, they need to be taken to school, etc.). Why is that advice unreasonable?
Because it's easy to not know what the signs of depression are, and once it has been flagged as a possibility, it's easy to simply go to a doctor for professional evaluation.
> Why is that advice unreasonable?
Why is "just be part of a family? And if you don't have one already, just go make one!" unreasonable, you're asking?
Additionally, OP clearly stated that he is not "16" and doesn't want to explore "hobbies". As I mentioned in my comment below thread, exposing him to diverse point of views can help him figure it out on his own.
He'll still have days of struggle, we all do, but he'll have a fulfilling reason to push through them.
“Many people find fulfillment and purpose in having children” = good advice
“Having children will give you purpose and make you feel fulfilled” = you’re projecting
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Or it could be ADHD or a plethora of other things.
So you'll get the same advice as anyone else who feels generally bad - talk to a doctor. Maybe there is a medical thing going on. Maybe there is a mental thing going on. Ask a couple professionals to evaluate you, and maybe you'll find a path to improve things.
But depression is just a label, it's not like accepting that label means there is a single known fix for it. Accepting it might at least remove your current obstacle to exploring certain options.
Talk to a doctor. Talk to a therapist. You might be one of the many people for whom a chemical treatment will help, or you might be one of the many people for whom something like cognitive behavioral therapy will help. There is unlikely to be a magic bullet, but there are many things to try. If you're able to detect an incremental change, you can focus in on that path. Right now you may be dulled out enough that you don't have the energy to detect what's working or do anything with it, so you should start with some professional help to lift you up enough that you can start doing the work to make forward progress.
Yes, I have been in a similar situation. I can't say I've "escaped". I think that was my expectation for a long time, that either you're stuck in the mud or you come up with a way to escape, but it's one of those things where lowering my expectations was necessary to making progress, and in retrospect I've made more progress that I would have initially thought possible. But I don't feel like I've escaped. It's still there, and it still drags me down periodically, but it's been a while now since my last long period of really wallowing in it.
Family can help. Friends can help. Work can help. Entertainment can help. But all of them can be a crutch, too, and just be a means to extend the status quo. You'll need to put work into each and every one of them specifically to make sure they're actually taking you in the right direction. It's a constant vigilance sort of thing, which might sound awful but at some point you'll look back and see that it's more than worth it.
I did this, but in my 20s. Realized that wherever I went, I'd be there too. That realization shook me and I started to work to become more comfortable with who I was and what I wanted. Some of that was reading, a bit of therapy, but mostly just examining my desires and accepting them rather than thinking about what I "should want to do".
> Anyone been in similar situation and was able to escape?
I think you are asking about escaping the situation, but I think escaping the fantasy of a magically different life is a better goal. Things that I did that helped:
* trying new things that you dream of. If you think working on a farm is going to change your life, try it. If you think working in a different field will, try that. (I see you doing this to some extent with your business.)
* looking at your financial condition and seeing where it leaves you. Sometimes we stay in jobs because we feel we have to, but what steps can you take to not. There's some flexibility in software to go to 4 days a week or contract. Maybe that kind of job is a better fit for you. But check the finances first.
* pick big fun goals and treat the job as a means to that end. Could be more travel or other experiences.
It sounds like you're in need of a Purpose. Like many folks in modern times.
Casually and broadly speaking, I'd say you have a couple of paths forward. Neither is a short-term holistic solution. These paths aren't mutually exclusive either.
1. Focus on creating and solidifying a family
Many many people trudge through boring and uninspiring work, all for purpose of providing and protecting for a family. There's great motivation and satisfaction in this. Don't be afraid of traditional gender roles and arrangements, and take pride in this accomplishment. Find good role models and mentors for this early, to help understand how to think about these challenges and gain fulfillment from them.
2. Refactor and keep trying with clear short-term goals
Regarding your business(es). The majority of successfully independent people have tried numerous things before succeeding. Repeatedly I hear the successful people say to keep trying. It's hard.
So, keep trying. Maybe you need to diversify your efforts and try some different services, products, businesses. Whatever your focus, set some more specific and short-term goals. When you have clearer goals, and you focus on those goals (with action), then other things like the 9-5 lose attention and focus. You shift from ruminating on the frustrations and instead attend to the goals and the possible.
Good luck!
Reminds me of this podcast on "Vampires, Life Choices, and Transformation": https://www.econtalk.org/l-a-paul-on-vampires-life-choices-a...
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Seriously, there is a VERY good reason men are refusing to start families in the US and brith rates are dropping. I tell my son and all young men I meet, "DO NOT get married or have kids in America until they rollback no fault divorce". Until then all financial incentives are for the woman to walk away as soon as you have any assets or substantial income. You saying it's "underrated" is a joke I hope, many of us would LOVE to have a family but financial incentives and society are against it.
The laws are slowly changing but places like Ohio are still in the dark ages, defaulting to 100% custody for the mother even AFTER paternity is legally established!
We are fighting for the passage of Ohio House Bill 14 that defaults to 50/50 custody but people like the Ohio House Bar Association and lawyers fight to keep us in the dark ages while the profit wildly.
Maybe consider defying gender roles -- and not just those roles, all the expectations that brought you to this point.
The OP's post resonates pretty deeply with me - I've been disillusioned with my career (and my expectations of it) for a long time. Expectations met reality, and I, too, am unhappy with the status quo.
Okay, maybe lean into a family. Maybe don't, and don't buy into the traditional gender roles. Maybe find some way give up all the expectations you've had - and cultivate your own happiness in defiance of what has been indoctrinated into you your entire life. College, careers, marriages...perhaps all of these institutions should be questioned as you forge your own path.
Side note: I have nothing figured out. I have only just recognized that I am not fulfilled by my career and that working for $GIANT_MEGACORP in $PRESTEGIOUS_ROLE does not give me purpose. My extended mid-life crisis continues.
It's also interesting how mental framing can dramatically change outcomes. There are many people out in the world building widgets. Some people try doing it for the love of the widget. Other research indicates that fulfillment in building widgets only comes after getting good at it and practicing that craft. Then others do it solely to earn money for family, hobbies, travel. This mental framing for each individual seems very related to purpose and positive outcomes.
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This blew up fast. I'll provide more context in this comment rather than commenting individually for the sake of not repeating myself.
First of all, children and family. I am considering this, but I doubt this is the solution to all problems. I agree with people who say it can provide a sense of purpose, but I also agree with people who think it's a bit irresponsible to recommend children to a stranger who shared something like I did.
Next, ADHD and depression. Never did ADHD test, I suspect I might have slight form of it. Depression I refuse to believe it exists in the form society labels it. For me, depression is a chemical imbalance, rather than a state of laziness/sadness/lost in life. Even if I have something like this, I won't take medication. Just a personal view on modern medical system, based on my experience with multiple psychologist and psychiatrists who did more harm that good (in my opinion).
Therapy. As mentioned above, therapy did more harm than good to me. Sure it might work for some people, but my experience with over 4 therapists ended up with either "nothing is wrong with you, don't visit me any more" or attempts to put me in a one of the boxes that the therapist learned about in school, while I clearly try to avoid any boxes.
God, hobbies, etc. I'm not 16 years old. I have grown up responsibilities, and I can't indulge myself in new hobbies every day. I'm focused (as much as I can) on building a business in order to escape the soul crashing tech industry and live on my terms (as much as possible, ultimate freedom is somewhat a lie). Together with this I try to work on my health, and maintain relationship(s). These are my 3 priorities in life, in no particular order. I don't have the time or desire to explore woodworking, or cave diving.
Thanks for everyone who commented, I appreciate every one of you <3
Depression is a chemical imbalance which is experienced as a state of sadness/lost in life.
How do you think people with depression subjectively feel, if not the way you feel right now?
And if you believe that this illness is a form of chemical imbalance, why not take medication? Surely you'd take medication if you had cancer, or a toothache, or a vitamin D deficiency?
Your three priorities (if I understood correctly), sound like your health, relationship, and independent business. This really does seem like a good track. In fact, having such clarity of priorities puts you ahead of many people. The only thing I don't see is maybe having a vision of the environment in which you pursue these priorities (home, living area, weather, etc).
I encourage you to consider specific short and medium term goals within those three areas. Maybe you can help draw out several purposes that adjust your mental framing.
As a small example, the hot topic of the children. I don't perceive anyone saying you should rush out and have a child tomorrow. Instead, adapting to your situation, maybe there are some specific family goals for the next few years.
Then, on the business side, maybe there are some specific goals for the next 1, 3, and 6 months. This might also need some goals about when to cut bait and try some different business ideas.
When I'm in the worst malaise, it's often when I have vague big picture aims without shorter term goals. Purpose is multi-faceted.
Thanks for sharing your journey. It's helpful for me to think and write about these topics, so I appreciate the prompt and hope I've helped your pursuit in a small way.
Have to disagree. The first post said "I get scared when I realize that this is my life for the next 30-40 years." You don't write something like that unless your life is out of whack relative to how you want to live.
But I suspect that succeeding at some already derisked business model isn't what is drawing you towards building a business. It's probably not money either since from a discounted cash flow perspective it probably pays better to get a FAANG job. You say you want freedom but in most businesses you don't have a huge amount of freedom since you are constrained by what the market wants and organizational structures have to meet employee needs.
> Why do you think building a business will fix the problem you feel?
It wont.
But it will solve one aspect of (lack of) independence -- the soul crashing 9-5 and working with people. I don't want to go length into my view of the tech industry and how I consider most of it an inefficient cog machine mixed with human psychology, but getting rid of it by creating a business which can be run on it's own -- will improve my quality of life significantly.
For example: there is no logical sense at all to work 9-5, 5 days a week from Mo-Fr, in an office. By having my business I can train in the morning and then work 12 to 8. I can take Monday off (without asking for permission). I can work from home or cafe, or a park. I get to build the lifestyle I want rather than conforming to some 1890s factory idea of the 9 to 5.
Another example: there is no need to have 15 people teams with idiotic daily standups. By building my own business, I get to work with only myself (yay), and some other people to whom I can outsource things I'm not good at, and not waste time on idiotic corporate rituals.
And as for McDonalnds, well, I been in the tech industry for over a decade now. That's what I know. I don't know anything about store locations, managing staff and stock. Sure I can learn, but it's smarter to leverage my existing knowledge rather than starting from 0. And also a physical business means more exposure to working with other people, and a more typical hierarchical structure.
Probably because he wants a lifestyle business that will let him make a reasonably comfortable living without working 9-5 every day for 30 years.
But you're not escaping yourself, and those priorities, and that's probably why you feel trapped. Box your job into a 'job' category, along with the business and 'getting rich' and so on, and use the time outside that to explore other things life has to offer. Hobbies, sports, volunteering, may not sound enticing superficially but it's about meeting new and different people and getting outside yourself and your rut.
also you:
> Every day feels like prison.
> Most days I struggle to find any force to drag myself out of bed
> After my day job I feel so exhausted that I can barely find desire to work on the business.
It kind of sounds like you might have depression. I suggest you check in with your primary care provider or a licensed therapist.