I really appreciate that the app is just an up front price! I probably don't really need it but at that price and straightforwardness it's not really a big loss if I don't use it much so I grabbed it. I looked at the other apps and realized they had made Halide as well which I tried out for a bit, for some reason thought it was subscription only & decided I didn't want it that much while clearing out subscriptions, and just (re)noticed they say you can buy it outright too. Initially I probably saw a high price tag and wanted to see how long I'd really like it for but going back into the app I can't seem to find the straightforward purchase option (perhaps because my initial year subscription hasn't expired?) which means I can't find how much it is without searching the net.
Perhaps I'm just uneducated and there is a place to still see it in the app with an active subscription or see the IAP price on the app store but even if there were it'd all just be a pain compared to "It's $9.99, wanna buy?" in your face at the app store and anywhere you read about it.
The only other (very minor) thing that gave me a startle was the onboarding process asks if you want to go "starter" or some other more advanced category. I thought I missed that it would try to upsell you until I reread and saw it meant I could select either layout type out of the box. Not sure that's really the apps fault as much as my paranoia after having just checked through all the above and being left thinking I missed something.
I’ve been a Halide customer since the first week it was released. I’ve gotten numerous updates since and not been locked out of anything available when I purchased (and including many new things since too) without having to pay another dime. In fact, the app has never even mentioned the option to subscribe, I only learned of that option via this thread and found it buried deep in settings. I value their work, so I’ll now pay as I heavily use the app (among other of their products), but to say I’ve been forced to and/or “locked out” is dare I say grossly inaccurate at best.
We have never, ever locked away Halide from people who already purchased it. If you bought Halide 1.0 in 2017, you can still use it today, with all the features you bought, without paying another penny.
Unfortunately the freemium + subscription model usually works so much better money-wise that it's difficult to justify publishing a simple paid app with upfront cost.
I'm totally fine with subscription apps, but the price has to be reasonable.
I'm not a video editor so I can't speak to that but here's one example:
Most calorie counting apps want ~16AUD a month from me. That's what Disney+ costs and they spend billions of dollars making content. It's 3$ more than Spotify charges and they have almost every song ever made. It doesn't have to be free, or even a one-off cost, but it has to be reasonable. I'd pay 4$ for calorie counting features. 16? No.
I use way too many applications. IF I was subscribing it would be nightmare for me. So I only buy from companies that offer perpetual licenses and upgrade whenever I feel the need.
It does not work as well anymore as it once did, and it will continue to
flatten out.
People can only afford a limited number of subscriptions at a time,
and with an ever-increasing number of companies putting their hand
into that pocket, there is less to go around.
As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a real phono on my iPhone. I use it all the time without issue. And would recommend it to any photographer.
So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried AGAIN and it worked... (iPhone 13 mini, iOS 17.4.1).
Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that.
Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.
This looks really promising, hope all goes great! My only concern is reading that you do collect crash reports despite being privacy-focused. How much information is there to identify the picture/video taken or the device/person?
Same phone and same OS version down to the patch number. I’ve noticed UI hangs and stutter when changing the grades, and BNW in particular seems to cause the biggest issues. Not yet experienced a crash even if I flick between grades in quick succession.
I did also find manual focus produced odd green visual artefacts in the live view as you move the focus control.
With that said, it’s a nice UI, hopefully the bugs can be ironed out!
I paid for Halide and almost immediately afterward, they announced a policy of locking new features made after whatever version you had bought unless you bought it a second time.
It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit.
It sounds like you bought Halide 1. At the time, we had supported Halide 1 for three years of huge feature updates when we launched Halide Mark II. Rather than just drop Halide 1, we gave everyone Mark II and a year of additional updates.
The alternative would have been to just release a separate app called Halide 2 and stop updating Halide 1. In that case, version 1 would probably fall apart pretty quickly due to OS and camera changes year to year.
I’m genuinely curious if you’d have preferred we stopped updating Halide 1, because we’re always trying to find the best way to support users while keeping the light on.
We think we have a fix ready. If you'd like to help verify, please email support@lux.camera and mention Hacker News, and we'll get you on a TestFlight.
The app is obviously targeting a different audience, but having bought it and recorded some test footage on it now, it has considerably fewer features than Blackmagic Cam for videography/cinematography pros - no zebras, focus peaking, stabilisation settings, anamorphic de-squeeze, etc - even commonly-expected framerates like 23.98fps / 29.97fps and settable aspect-ratios like 2.39:1 aren't available as far as I can see.
Would hope to see them address these missing features in future updates, but at the moment there's nothing here to make me move away from Blackmagic for "serious" iPhone videography.
I for one would love to see us drop the fractional frame rates (29.97, etc). They're an archaic technical relic that cause trouble when working with timecode. At Sphere we debated standardizing on 30/60/120fps but ultimately decided it was a battle we didn't want to fight in an already complicated building.
I don't see a way to grade the footage from within the BMD app. Their app seems more designed to take advantage of the ProRes/log captures intended to be used in Resolve Studio. This app allows you to do the grading on your device. So that's a pretty obvious difference. If you're someone using Resolve, you'll probably be enticed by the BMD app as it fits your existing workflow. If you're someone looking to stay on device or just don't have a computer, this gets you to a similar ability right there
I just looked at two pomodoro apps on the app store, one had a one-time purchase fee, the other had a subscription only model. It's a freaking pomodoro app! I can't believe I have to pay for that in the first place (why doesn't the countdown app of Apple not have a widget =.=) but a subscription? People are greedy af.
Putting on my Older Person hat for a moment, software from indie publishers used to cost in the ballpark of $40 in the late 1980s (that's ~$100 in 2024 dollars after adjusting for inflation). $100 for a single version of a single app. When the next point release comes out, the publisher might give you a discount of 50%, so it might only cost you $50. A major release was often required for compatibility with a new OS version.
All the software we used back in the day? We spent significant money on it.
Do you think apps like these pomodoro apps would sell in sustainable quantities if it were $100 for major releases and $50 for point releases? What if it were $100 to get the current version every time iOS did a major version upgrade?
Or is it more likely that these apps would simply not exist?
People say they want one-time purchases, but the small $ subscriptions are more consumer-friendly than is immediately apparent. And they support a vastly more comprehensive software ecosystem.
People are so used to the zero interest rate period of tech that everyone expects the pricing model of VC backed startups that can burn money forever and maybe figure out a business model at some point.
Software costs time and money. People complain that they don't want the same uninspired corporate created junk – and then they balk at paying indie developers a reasonable amount for apps.
So much work goes into this stuff! It's so tempting for indie devs to just take the high paying job, and then congrats – no more unique and interesting apps like this.
Personally, for smaller developers, I attribute this more to ignorance than malice (greed). Pricing is hard so they just look around and pick what they see happening around them without taking a moment even to think, forget about doing actual research.
That doesn't seem odd to me. Pomodoro/focus apps are a category where people start casual, but end up developing very specific desires that narrow their options. Someone catering to that can charge a bit.
Whether it's ethical for developers to cater to that kind of helpless behavior is another question.
Personally, even if I don't personally purchase this, I hope your wrong because I am strongly against subscriptions in most cases.
I see cases where it makes sense...but I also see the need for development to get paid their salery, and once you have reached all the users you can....their is no new user growth....and if your just selling based off a one time fee then that means you got very little income except the random guy who might donate, but a company shouldn't rely on donations to keep products alive.
If the thing needs updates or changes regularly say once very 6 months....due to changes in standard or just keeping things updated....this stuff costs money to keep developers paid.
My crude C program I wrote that converts an input between celcius or Fahrenheit is not really going to change. Unless I want to also support data inputs other than floating point numbers, I don't need to update or modify anything. But other stuff is more complex and might change due to standards, advancements, and the needs of the users.
Their other apps are much older than 2 years and still have a buy-once model. This company has a good track record. (There is a subscription for some long-running services if I'm not mistaken.)
Gotta love Apple's App Store. Search for "kino" and get a competing app as an ad, but then numerous other apps that aren't Kino including a variety of keno games. Search for "kino pro video camera", same situation, but finally find it in position #5 despite being an exact title match. Bravo App Store search team. (The same happened when Threads launched.)
It's refreshing to see you kept the website simple. No stupid scroll jacking or fancy (read distracting) transitions or scroll effects.
I like supporting independent software studios like yours who try not to sell out, so bought it without hesitation, even though I don't shoot a lot of video with my iPhone. This will probably make me experiment more with video.
I'm interested in the benefits of this app for anyone who doesn't have an iPhone 15 Pro that takes video in Apple Log. The post made it seem it seem to me like an iPhone 15 Pro was required.
The ability to record in log is very important. Without log, you're never going to get the results as advertised on the box. You can attempt to grade any footage from any camera with any color grade software, but with a huge amount of limitations. When recording in a format that is not "log", you will have already trashed the majority of data an app like this needs to make those subtle adjustments. In log, the highlights tend to be preserved better as well as details in shadows have not be crushed into oblivion. If your non-log footage is brought in, the same knobs/buttons will be available, but the data it is needing has been lost and it just will not have the same effect. You will not be satisfied with "its abilities" as you are now in the "you're doing it wrong" with your workflow
Oh man, I wish the app was available on the iphone 15 pro too. I keep holding off buying that external HDMI monitor for the A7SIII, and that might be just the solution to keep the camera bag small...
Readit News
Perhaps I'm just uneducated and there is a place to still see it in the app with an active subscription or see the IAP price on the app store but even if there were it'd all just be a pain compared to "It's $9.99, wanna buy?" in your face at the app store and anywhere you read about it.
The only other (very minor) thing that gave me a startle was the onboarding process asks if you want to go "starter" or some other more advanced category. I thought I missed that it would try to upsell you until I reread and saw it meant I could select either layout type out of the box. Not sure that's really the apps fault as much as my paranoia after having just checked through all the above and being left thinking I missed something.
Give enough time (1-2y) and they will charge a subscription from you and lock you away from the app you've purchased.
I'm not a video editor so I can't speak to that but here's one example:
Most calorie counting apps want ~16AUD a month from me. That's what Disney+ costs and they spend billions of dollars making content. It's 3$ more than Spotify charges and they have almost every song ever made. It doesn't have to be free, or even a one-off cost, but it has to be reasonable. I'd pay 4$ for calorie counting features. 16? No.
People can only afford a limited number of subscriptions at a time, and with an ever-increasing number of companies putting their hand into that pocket, there is less to go around.
So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried AGAIN and it worked... (iPhone 13 mini, iOS 17.4.1).
I have faith this will be worked out soon.
Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.
I did also find manual focus produced odd green visual artefacts in the live view as you move the focus control.
With that said, it’s a nice UI, hopefully the bugs can be ironed out!
It's the only app I've ever bought whose developer has done that bullshit.
I won't make that mistake again.
The alternative would have been to just release a separate app called Halide 2 and stop updating Halide 1. In that case, version 1 would probably fall apart pretty quickly due to OS and camera changes year to year.
I’m genuinely curious if you’d have preferred we stopped updating Halide 1, because we’re always trying to find the best way to support users while keeping the light on.
Could be related to the 13 mini cameras specifically.
Would hope to see them address these missing features in future updates, but at the moment there's nothing here to make me move away from Blackmagic for "serious" iPhone videography.
Thank you for the one-time purchase option. It's a win already on today's software world.
Putting on my Older Person hat for a moment, software from indie publishers used to cost in the ballpark of $40 in the late 1980s (that's ~$100 in 2024 dollars after adjusting for inflation). $100 for a single version of a single app. When the next point release comes out, the publisher might give you a discount of 50%, so it might only cost you $50. A major release was often required for compatibility with a new OS version.
All the software we used back in the day? We spent significant money on it.
Do you think apps like these pomodoro apps would sell in sustainable quantities if it were $100 for major releases and $50 for point releases? What if it were $100 to get the current version every time iOS did a major version upgrade?
Or is it more likely that these apps would simply not exist?
People say they want one-time purchases, but the small $ subscriptions are more consumer-friendly than is immediately apparent. And they support a vastly more comprehensive software ecosystem.
Software costs time and money. People complain that they don't want the same uninspired corporate created junk – and then they balk at paying indie developers a reasonable amount for apps.
So much work goes into this stuff! It's so tempting for indie devs to just take the high paying job, and then congrats – no more unique and interesting apps like this.
> People are greedy af
I hope the irony of these two statements isn't lost on you
Personally, for smaller developers, I attribute this more to ignorance than malice (greed). Pricing is hard so they just look around and pick what they see happening around them without taking a moment even to think, forget about doing actual research.
https://qoomon.github.io/time-timer-webapp/
Whether it's ethical for developers to cater to that kind of helpless behavior is another question.
Dead Comment
I see cases where it makes sense...but I also see the need for development to get paid their salery, and once you have reached all the users you can....their is no new user growth....and if your just selling based off a one time fee then that means you got very little income except the random guy who might donate, but a company shouldn't rely on donations to keep products alive.
If the thing needs updates or changes regularly say once very 6 months....due to changes in standard or just keeping things updated....this stuff costs money to keep developers paid.
My crude C program I wrote that converts an input between celcius or Fahrenheit is not really going to change. Unless I want to also support data inputs other than floating point numbers, I don't need to update or modify anything. But other stuff is more complex and might change due to standards, advancements, and the needs of the users.
Just this morning I searched for "Strava" and the top result was some random hiking app.
I like supporting independent software studios like yours who try not to sell out, so bought it without hesitation, even though I don't shoot a lot of video with my iPhone. This will probably make me experiment more with video.
The main site doesn't use scroll-jacking, i.e. scrolling feels like walking through a muddy swamp.
The other effects are subtle enough that they don't make me want to leave the site, i.e. make my laptop fan spin more violently.
Really tells how much they care about their craft