Really loving my Fairphone 5 - basically smartphones are enough of a commodity now everything feels really high quality and fast physically. The sky blue colour is really nice. AND also it avoids conflict metals, is repairable.
Much much better than my last Fairphone (which was the Fairphone 2).
I switched from an iPhone this time. I'm also enjoying that Android is a bit more programmable without rooting it - running a full Unix distribution in Termux, scripting it with Tasker to run Python scripts on events etc. Actual Firefox.
I honestly don't care much about processor speed, if it can run a browser, messaging and banking apps I'm fine. But I need to be able to take family pictures which are good enough quality for occasional full page prints.
I've always been disappointed with these kind of niche devices in the past, where the cameras were barely of the level of 2 year old sub-$200 phones, especially in capture speed and low light performance. You can't ask kids to reenact something in better lighting if you missed it the first time.
My gf has a fairphone 5 and I guess you will be disappointed. The pictures are really not stunning. She had a huawei p20 pro (from 2018) and it definitely took better pictures.
Happy to read how much better it is than the Fairphone 2. I had one when they first came out but I got rid of it after 1.5 years and bought a Pixel 2 (which I am still using currently and looking to replace with a new Fairphone ironically) because it was so slow, oversized and seemingly cheaply made.
> In addition, we account for 100% of the cobalt used in the battery by buying cobalt credits, which support the improvement of working conditions for artisanal cobalt miners in the DRC.
Presumably that's what the map signifies. Good to know/in case anyone else was curious.
I never broke a phone, not even scratched the screen but I feel force to buy a new one every 3 years because they become obsolete (I guess apps require more and more memory to the point I cannot have two open at the same time, which kills my ability to pay online).
I bought a Framework laptop for the same reason and I successfully managed to upgrade it, not repair it!
Is there a phone that allows me to upgrade over time and not only fix it?
> I feel force to buy a new one every 3 years because they become obsolete
Nowadays that's plainly not true anymore because chips hardly get faster year-to-year, but also my 2012 phone lasted 5 years before software support started to get mediocre for Android 4.4 (the hardware was still fast enough and the battery you could still replace in 20 seconds). I've only ever bought new phones for software support reasons (scheduled obsolescence) or because the GPS chip broke after they stopped supporting rooting and so I couldn't get it repaired (out of warranty) without forfeiting that.
What phones do you buy that you feel they're unusably slow after only 3 years?!
my asus zenfone 6 was a really great phone, but all updates stopped after just 2 years. It still has plenty of power, but due to not getting security updates since 2021 i feel i have to upgrade. getting the fairphone soon.
it's really crazy how wasteful we're being with electronics in general. my old work laptop became unusable with windows 10, just extremely sluggish for even simple tasks. putting linux on it, its working great again (in fact writing this comment on it right now.)
I wish we could put more focus on performance in the more mainstream products, but at least there's FOSS for people like me. can't wait until i can put an alpine linux on my phone someday.
While chips probably won't get significantly faster, apps memory requirements are still steadily increasing to the point of current flagships are starting to have 24GB or RAM.
This is the one thing that is makes me feel a bit scammed about the Fairphone. When I bought the Fairphone 3 plus, they gave the impression they were going to stick with form factor and make the modules upgradeable. Those hopes were shattered when they came out with the Fairphone 4.
I am just hoping now that I cling to this FP3 until frame.work gets bold enough to expand into phones as well.
The problem is really that the SoCs aren't maintained for long, and the complexity of the SoC concept makes maintaining it yourself as the device manufacturer at best impractical, maybe even impossible if the SoC manufacturer won't release necessary source code to you.
They want it this way because then they can sell more SoCs because users end up upgrading more often, and device manufacturers (besides Fairphone) don't complain because their interests are aligned.
On the Apple side you see devices getting support for much longer as Apple designs and maintains it's SoCs in-house, and at least to a degree value device longevity because that keeps second-hand prices relatively high, and that aligns somewhat with Apples interests.
Not quite 10 years, but we've seen feature updates for just under 7 years with the iPhone 6s (released 2015), and it's still receiving security updates and bug fixes.
I am typing this from a phone that I am already considering replacing for this very same reason although it does everything well and I looks brand new (rubber case, screen protection, etc.).
I understand phones are harder to upgrade because space is very limited but the e-waste we're generating (and the money impact) seems something that needs to be addressed.
I also don't understand their comment. I've been buying either a flagship Android or iPhone every upgrade and don't remember not getting at least 5 years out of a phone.
Even at 5 years I only ever felt like I was upgrading because it was 'time', not out of a direct need.
I can only imagine a person getting 3 years out of a phone if they are buying junk.
When the modular phone concepts appeared online (in the early '10s?) I was convinced that this was where it would take us, so when I heard about Fairphone, I really thought it was going to be that.
I really really hope FairPhone has a plan to start making their phones upgradable. They gave us a taste of it with the 3T. The FP5 is so similar to the FP4. I imagine they will eventually be able to estabilize the design and start offering backwards compatible parts. Until the 4, the hardware was just not up to industry standards.
You would not upgrade from the 5 to a 6, as it would be a small upgrade. You would likely want to upgrade from a 3, but the design is too old, the cameras are too small, and probably other problems. I think we need a very stable upgradable base.
I am only buying second hand galaxy s7 (2106) and they work fine. If needed battery replacement is rather easy to do if you follow a tutorial.
I use it watch youtube videos, browse the web (probably not the fastest but fast enough), use Google Maps, take pictures, listen to music. Basic phone usage you know.
I also have some s7 but the version of android won't support the latest banking apps so it's becoming rapidly obsolete. What are you doing about app support on the android on s7?
I’m using my original iPhone SE (2016). I replaced the battery a couple of weeks ago, and I’m often at 80% by the end of the day. For regular phone use, I find this phone is perfect. So small you don’t feel it in your pocket, and still does the basic things really well.
I have the same problem and no real solution.
FWIW I've been able to make my (mid-range android) phone last for 7+ years now by uninstalling some apps whenever memory becomes an issue.
Also I update apps only when forced.
Samsung j3 mini, running Android 11. I think there's even a 12 Lineage available, but the current one is so stable as a daily driver that I don't feel the need.
I wish I could simply run 3 year old apps. In many cases I am not allowed, especially the bank ones, which are the ones that I cannot run in the background as the OS kills them.
Is this still the case? It certainly was in the early days of smartphones, where every update it felt like you needed double the memory to keep up.
But I've been using devices with 4GB-6GB of memory for the past 8 years almost, and they don't feel that bad to use. My phone still has 6GB of memory and does all I want it to just fine.
I honestly don't think you have to. If banking apps are a bit slow, so what? I know that individual actions have limited impact, but do you realise what's at stake when it comes to environmental issues? FWIW I run a 6yo xiaomi and I avoid crapware, it's working fine, I can AV call, message, browse HN and other forums/links aggregator, navigate, track my sports and calories... The resources (some) apps and websites use are the issue. You're part of the educated crowd, resist, FFS.
It's not that they are slow. When I pay online, I need to confirm the payment through my bank app.
When I switch to it, the browser or shop app closes and I cannot complete the transaction.
In other words, you don't really get much of a choice, unless you are buying a flagship device and not everyone will be able to do that. The same goes for the comparatively expensive iPhone devices, the cost also being a factor there for many.
You are one of the rare people that never broke a phone, probably.... or you just started using a cellphone... or you dont really use it or armored case, or something similar
Is it that rare? I also use smart phones for over 10 years and have never broken one, only inherited a broken screen one. And I have never even used protective hulls or anything. I sometimes do consider myself even rather clumsy and yet I still did not break a phone.
The worst thing I ever did to my phones over the years is ever so slightly scratching the screen because I put it in the same pocket as my keys.
To be fair my first smart phone was a Nokia Lumia 720, that thing did some damage to anything it hit.
Some people just seems to smash phones left and right and claim that they're just using them normally. I think it's just how some people interact with the world. Put an iPhone in a case and they aren't that brittle, I dropped mine plenty of times.
I have been using mobile phones since at least the 90s and have never broken one.
(Motorola Sapphire was my first, 1G, and I still have it somewhere. Powering it up would probably break several laws at this point. The SIM was an entire credit-card size also...)
I think I cracked a screen on a single phone. Maybe some small scratches on others. Historically I haven't used a case, but my current one uses one of those Apple ones that doesn't cover the screen.
1. No wireless charging. Switching to this phone would require a big change in my household's ecosystem (sorry to use a big word for a small thing, but I can't think of a better one). We have $10 wireless charging discs all over the place, and it's nice to be able to charge whenever we set our phones down. I don't want to take a step backward.
2. The Verge's review suggests the camera is OK but not great. I've been taking Pixel photos for years, and my phone is always the one people ask to use for group shots at social events. I don't want to fuss with taking a picture ten times just to get the lighting right, and the Pixel almost always meets the bar on the first shot. It sucks that a consumption device like a phone has this one critical input feature, and that there is still so much of a computational photography gap between certain brands and the rest, but that's how it is, and it prevents me from seriously considering any of them. (This isn't unique to Pixel; I hear Apple does well in this area, too.)
3. Just a nit: why is the case 40 euros? I expect to pay a premium for the phone because of the specific compromises in the design and the resulting low volumes. But this is just another run-of-the-mill TPU case that I expect I'd have to routinely replace every couple years. I don't use screen protectors, but I have an even more allergic reaction to the 33-euro price of the one for sale. I know there are aftermarket options, but I'm already taking a risk of poor part/accessory availability in the future because it's a niche product, so I don't know whether they'll still be available when I need them years from now.
By the way, I do own a Framework laptop (11th-gen CPU), and I like it a lot. I plan to swap out the motherboard next year. Unlike the Fairphone, the Framework didn't impose cost and performance compromises right out of the gate. I support sustainability, but there's only so far I'm willing to go.
1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..)
2. Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice.
3. They also take compromises to have an ethical production, try to guarantee there is no exploitation as much as they could, from the extraction of mineral, manufacturing ... (they didn't do it for all, but they are advancing as far as they could, also with all existing certifications for that, so it's normal that is expensive. So our choice to value that things, if we could afford it, or not.
>1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..)
The percentage value looks bad but how much is that in absolute terms? Using the figures from the article, wireless charging uses 6.75 Wh more per full charge. Assuming you charge that much every day, that's 2.46 kWh per year, or 42 cents at average US electricity prices[1]. I think that's a price worth paying for the convenience.
>> 1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger.
Sure, but compared to everything else we use, smartphones use almost no energy. The one I'm typing this on has a battery capacity of 12 wh; if you have a resistive electric water heater, standing in a hot shower during the winter for an extra second would offset half of that.
> 1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger.
Lots of sibling replies pointing out that the absolute energy loss is negligible and reasonable price for the convenience.
That’s fine.
But there’s a bigger point. This convenience is being used as a justification for sticking with big brand phones. Which maybe tips the balance on the reasonableness, and, more broadly, raises the general issue of how much buying for convenience is a slippery slope. Maybe just charge with a cable?
If you use fast wired charging, which most phones do, you're causing significant wear to the battery. With daily fast charging, I've seen phones chew through their battery in under a year.
Conversely, the rather slow charge rate of wireless helps extend battery life quite a lot. This is why I never use fast charging, avoid wired charging in general, and limit my battery to 85% max charge. It's been three or four years and my battery is still at ~80% health.
Which is worse, wasting a small amount of power or trashing your phone's battery in a year or two? One has significantly higher monetary and environmental costs.
Besides all that, wired charging is not nearly as efficient as you think. The charge circuitry in your phone is optimistically 80-90%. The wall adapter can be anywhere from 50 to 90%, and scales pretty closely to how much you paid for it. Efficiency also goes down with faster charge rates.
I design switching converters and lithium charge circuits for my job. They're pretty great, but not nearly as good as you'd think.
> Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger.
The energy waste is a shame, but the convenience factor is mighty high, not to mention the wear and tear on your USB-C port is non-existent. Maybe one point for less USB cable waste and tossing perfectly good phones just because their USB ports are damaged?
Your point on wireless-charging waste is valid, but I'm not sure a hypothetical initiative to reduce national electricity consumption should prioritize addressing it. The waste is similar to using a 7-watt LED bulb one hour extra per day (16Wh phone battery requires an extra 47% or 7.52 watts to charge wirelessly from 0% to 100% each night).
The concern about wireless inefficiency is very well-placed, however, in the case of electric cars. EVs will become an enormous consumer of electricity in the near future, so small changes now can have a big cumulative effect. "Charge your car as conveniently as your phone" would be an effective marketing tagline, so to that extent I agree that phones set a bad example for needless energy consumption in the name of convenience.
(edit: oops, bunch of other commenters made the same point while I was writing mine)
Qi receivers on phones don't wear out as fast as physical connectors do. There are no hard reasons why wireless is better in durability but practically they tend to be more reliable.
This 2016 article puts the cost of charging an ipad at $1.55 per year (iphone lower but I assume batteries got bigger or time). 47% wastage with wireless chrome is not much in terms of energy costs. https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charg...
> Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger.
That's also the main reason I'm not interested in wireless charging. A wire works fine, and it seems pretty obvious to me that wireless can never be as efficient. But I never had exact support for this belief, so thank you for that.
> Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice.
With their modular approach, it would be nice if you could buy a better camera for it. I know that suggestion has been around since Fairphone 2, so I guess there must be a good reason why they're not doing that.
But if Fairphone was popular enough, I bet there would be a massive aftermarket for such upgrades.
> Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger.
TBH some wired chargers are only 60 percent efficient in converting AC to DC. Then you'll also have energy losses inside the phone converting 5vdc to 3.7vdc for the lithium battery.
But, what? this is ~7 watts per charge completely full charge?
One could do the following and offset those 7 watts with a lot more to spare:
I'll add to your list of fairphone shortcomings the lack of a headphone jack. I really don't buy their excuse that including one would make the phone too large to be commercially viable.
Same. I've been extremely resistant to any device without a headphone jack. I don't get this weird obsession with removing them. Apple made the idiotic decision originally because they have this weird air of "knowing better than you" but what I don't get is why other manufacturers followed suit.
Then people in your household either (a) don't really use their phones that much or (b) get brand new phones with brand new batteries every year. There is no phone battery that lasts an entire day for a person that uses their >1yo phone a lot throughout the day.
"Supporting" sustainability, but you don't accept having to plug your phone once-a-day like 90% of smartphone owners, you want to have the best phone camera in your social group, and you don't want screen protectors.
I'm shocked we have come to this as a society. If you don't accept any compromises, just admit that you don't really care and move on.
Around Christmas time I always consider giving a family member one of my old smart phones. But then I remember I stopped using them because they got old and the battery life sucks.
My friend has a Pixel 7 (non Pro) and it takes pretty crappy photos for such a high-end phone. Shooting in RAW with all the hi-res options turned on. Anything that would help? Better camera app than the Google one?
1. This is like critiscizing a green energy company for not burning oil.
Wireless charging is antithetical to any sustainable device mission. In terms of "last mile delivery", wireless charging for small personal devices is about the least efficient, highest energy waste delivery method there is. I'm talking orders of magnitude more waste versus production than coal, oil, propane, wale blubber, wood. That isn't even to say the effect on your battery or surrounding plastics/membranes.
2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care.
3. The accessory case is a criticism is a bit more valid but come on.
THis phone is losing money on every sale. If they sell one of these cases for every phone, they MAY come out ahead because as you said, the cases are cheap junk. Don't buy the case if this is a problem. This last years, apple switched from leather cases to "vegan leather". Same cost, made in china. More than the cost of this fair phone case.
I feel like if you own a framework, you should understand that the criticisms you listed are.....not criticisms and are in fact features or obvious requirements for a loss-leading edge case device. There is no 100 percent, perfect, sustainable mobile device like there is for workstations, because the walled garden of mobile devices is unfortunatley just more rigidly architectured.
> 2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care.
The whole idea of smartphone cameras is that nobody is editing RAWs. I have issues with the GP comment but wanting a high quality camera is not one of them. Taking decent-to-great smartphone photos, whether inane or artistic, is a staple of modern life. (Although it sounds more like a status thing in their case, like they don't want someone else in their social group to be the go-to photographer? Maybe it was just not worded clearly.)w
Say I own an iPhone and I’m considering a Fairphone. Which iphone model would I have to own for the transition to make sense, both for user experience and sustainability?
I.e. Iphone 15 surely not. But iphone 5 for sure yes. Where is the cutoff?
I’m choosing iphones because they’re recognizable and have a predictable release schedule. Let’s disregard ios vs android angle if possible.
My Rhino Shield "Crash Guard" bumper case has protected several generations of iPhones from my clumsiness, dropping it on all manner of hard surfaces from chest height or higher. Yes it's annoying to pay $30 for a case for my glass supercomputer, but I wouldn't base my phone purchase decision based on the need for a case. If anything, I'd prefer a phone that is supported by this particular case, because there is no phone that I really expect to be built to this kind of spec (and I probably wouldn't want one that was, considering what tradeoffs might be involved).
I owned a fairphone 3. It was expensive but very easy to take apart and promised years of updates. Then it broke, after about 18 months. Fine, I thought, I'm glad I got a repairable phone. I'll just fix it, it'll be easy. I determined the problem was with the main logic board and found that a) a new one would cost much more than an entirely new, and more capable phone and b) it was out of stock.
I just bought a new phone. I didn't feel good about my fairphone experience.
Given Fairphone is a rather small company they sometimes have such problems of economy of scale - no manufacturer will prioritise you if you make small orders.
That said, one reason for the Fairphone price is the "fair to the people labouring for the parts of the phone" part. I'm unhappy with the camera quality, but honestly knowing that the premium I pay means fairer working conditions is for me an important element. I prefer to pay the small social enterprise establishing a new kind of supply chain and developing a modular phone, rather than the Samsung CEOs and stockholders.
This is why I like the Framework way: keep the chassis the same so you can just buy a shiny new motherboard with the latest processor if your old motherboard dies.
It's probably not as suitable for phones what with changes to antenna requirements and such though.
To be fair, you are describing a 1:1 comparison of how Fairphone does it here. The issue of economical viability for PC motherboards is easier than smartphone mainboards, but the premise is basically the same- the core component of the device dies and needs to be replaced. There are more modular standards for PC to make the hit here less hard (memory, being the big one) but it's all the same. Fairphone has not done as good of a job as Framework has in making it viable for customers to replace their mainboards, and I will say I think Framework is the odd one here in really stepping up in that market.
However, I do want to point out that when such unfortunate things happen, perhaps the remaining parts that still works could be helpful to other fairphone users?
I'm typing this from my Fairphone 4, which I started using Sunday after almost reaching the six-year mark of my FP2. One reason that obedience managed to last as long is that a friend stopped using his FP2, and I could use his old phone for spare parts.
Sorry to hear that! I have a pretty low sample size of ~8 friends on FP3 and I can't remember hearing of a single hardware failure. Some batteries got replaced and some are even still going strong on their first battery. I've updated mine from 3 to 3+ and I'm on my second battery since this summer, I.e. the main board is ~4years old. A friend had some minor issues in the beginning with some internal connector but I can't remember him mentioning it again.
Another friend got rid of her FP2 this spring in favor of a FP4, but only because some apps she uses got really unusable. Otherwise she would've stayed.
IMO it's a fairly good platform and I'm looking forward to how it evolves in the future. Hopefully they will introduce a smaller phone at one point.
I had to replace the USB module on my FP3 because it couldn't charge my battery anymore. At first I tried to replace the battery but that didn't work, and I was afraid that the issue would be from the motherboard, but no I just needed to change that module. Great experience!
I bought a FP3+, still using it after 3 years, but would not go Fairphone again. Despite supporting what the company stands for, I feel they didn't deliver on their promises.
I was hoping for more upgrades to be available over time, but that was never the case. Instead, two new models appeared with a year interval and the 4 didn't even get any upgrades. Worse even, the 3.5mm jack was removed, following the trend of getting customers to buy headphones with a limited life time due to their battery. The promise of being the responsible choice for the planet is fading away.
I also faced issues when it came to repairing my device. After only 3 months the USB-C port died, impossible to charge it and once out of battery, I couldn't get my data from it. I contacted the support and they offered me two solutions: I send in the phone, it will get fixed but wiped clean or I order the part online and they reimburse me (they couldn't just send it from the repair center...). I chose the latter as I didn't want to loose my data and felt it was the more ecologically responsible choice, especially since the phone is so repairable. Well, the part was not available on their store, checked every retailer in Europe and third party parts don't exist. I was stuck with a brick for 4 months. The irony is that if I had an iPhone or Galaxy, I could get it fixed the same day at the phone repair shop around the corner...
I appreciate all the efforts Fairphone put in setting up more responsible supply chains. But in my opinion they still failed on their sustainability promise. The devices aren't well supported, it's difficult to repair them and they quickly fall behind due to the lack of upgrades (that also goes with the main board not being replaceable). New devices follow the disastrous trends of other brands with a new model each year and removing the headphone jack. Sure, they are a business and need to make money, but not by going against their own values.
I had a similar experience with replaceable batteries (1) expensive on the one hand, but at the same time (2) unavailable.
I think batteries are the main consumable of a phone. It seems to me there should be an after-market of smaller batteries, and a set of universal power adapters (like you get with power supplies), and shims to fit it securely within the phone.
But I haven't seen this, so either people prefer to upgrade (demand) or manufacturers successfully made it too hard (supply).
Although I really appreciate Fairphone, I've got to admit my experience is similar. I had a Fairphone 2 until the screen went haywire. Not broken, but showed random noise. Replacing it was expensive. Meanwhile, I've replaced several broken iPhone screens. Even if iPhone's are harder to repair, they're still not all that hard to repair. It just takes time and patience. And instructions from ifixit of course.
With the incentives our economy is aligned to for things like phones, repairability will be a hard sell on a dollar to dollar basis with replacement. It's more about values than strict consumer cost.
Fairphone is a for profit company. What is there to prevent the company from choosing not to use the highest quality parts so that you will need to buy more parts to repair it later on?
I have an iPhone 11 Pro. The back is made out of glass which is easily breakable. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why, because behind the glass is an opaque piece of aluminum. The glass broke on the third day I had the phone when I tossed it from knee height on to a folded up sweatshirt that was sitting on a rug on a tile floor.
Oh, actually, I guess I do know why an opaque part of a thousand dollar phone is made out of incredibly fragile glass, but I’ve made it two years without cutting myself too terribly badly and I’m not planning on replacing it while it still works.
(Obviously, the front glass is broken too but that’s utterly unremarkable for an apple product).
my iPhone 4 battery went up in smoke after owning it for 1.5 years.
my iPhone 6 plus developed touch disease after 2 years, the replacement developed touch disease after a week, and the second replacement began exhibiting mild symptoms after a couple months, the nand failed after another 2 years. (applecare replacements mind you.) plus I wasn't a huge fan of apple trying to sweep the issue under the rug until it gained nationwide attention.
I thought that fairphone was: you buy once, and you can upgrade modules over time.
But it seems that modules of newer fairphones don't necessarily fit an older fairphone.
So it's more about repairable for that specific version. Which is still better than no repairability.. but I imagine you can feel quite duped still having to buy a new phone every 3 years and throwing the old one out.
Anyone with experience of having a fairphone for multiple years?
I own an FP 4 since it aired. No complaints so far. I mainly use it for browsing. I haven't needed any repairs yet, but I like the idea of that being an easy feat. Of course everyone hopes that they can make their phones more modular and upgradable than they do now, but it's also understandable they have to iterate their architecture before they can converge on a design that truely lasts multiple generations of upgrades.
I first bought a FP1 and I am now on a FP3. The FP1 is still just about operable as an emergency phone, and maybe a tiny bit of browsing. The FP3 is going fine. I have chosen not to upgrade the camera module, though I am still thinking about it. The 'F' has fallen off the backing plate so I in fact own an 'AIRPHONE'. A friend by the same token owns "A PHONE" which I pointed out is an entirely accuate failure mode! B^>
I got the 4 a little over a year and half ago... and I feel mostly happy. I've replaced the screen twice because I'm an idiot, and like replaceable batteries. Would be nice to be able to upgrade the camera, so sad I can't do that.
Does anyone know of a site that does an "objective" comparison of the various flagships and their ethical claims? like how does Apple's material sourcing compare to Fairphone, compared to Samsung etc.
Readit News
Much much better than my last Fairphone (which was the Fairphone 2).
I switched from an iPhone this time. I'm also enjoying that Android is a bit more programmable without rooting it - running a full Unix distribution in Termux, scripting it with Tasker to run Python scripts on events etc. Actual Firefox.
I honestly don't care much about processor speed, if it can run a browser, messaging and banking apps I'm fine. But I need to be able to take family pictures which are good enough quality for occasional full page prints.
I've always been disappointed with these kind of niche devices in the past, where the cameras were barely of the level of 2 year old sub-$200 phones, especially in capture speed and low light performance. You can't ask kids to reenact something in better lighting if you missed it the first time.
Search found (view HTML or click "More about our materials") on https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-5
> In addition, we account for 100% of the cobalt used in the battery by buying cobalt credits, which support the improvement of working conditions for artisanal cobalt miners in the DRC.
Presumably that's what the map signifies. Good to know/in case anyone else was curious.
Related discussion 10 years ago, only one I could find on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5813730
Added: https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/supply-chain-wide-collabo... and presumably what the improvement mention above is about https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/approach/professionalizin... ?
I bought a Framework laptop for the same reason and I successfully managed to upgrade it, not repair it!
Is there a phone that allows me to upgrade over time and not only fix it?
Nowadays that's plainly not true anymore because chips hardly get faster year-to-year, but also my 2012 phone lasted 5 years before software support started to get mediocre for Android 4.4 (the hardware was still fast enough and the battery you could still replace in 20 seconds). I've only ever bought new phones for software support reasons (scheduled obsolescence) or because the GPS chip broke after they stopped supporting rooting and so I couldn't get it repaired (out of warranty) without forfeiting that.
What phones do you buy that you feel they're unusably slow after only 3 years?!
Generally, a battery swap and a factory wipe would bring most people's phones back to an acceptable performance.
it's really crazy how wasteful we're being with electronics in general. my old work laptop became unusable with windows 10, just extremely sluggish for even simple tasks. putting linux on it, its working great again (in fact writing this comment on it right now.) I wish we could put more focus on performance in the more mainstream products, but at least there's FOSS for people like me. can't wait until i can put an alpine linux on my phone someday.
I am just hoping now that I cling to this FP3 until frame.work gets bold enough to expand into phones as well.
Either you don't get any updates and at one point you can't use any app because it's outdated.
Or you get all updates and at one point you can't use any apps, because your phone became unbearably slow.
They want it this way because then they can sell more SoCs because users end up upgrading more often, and device manufacturers (besides Fairphone) don't complain because their interests are aligned.
On the Apple side you see devices getting support for much longer as Apple designs and maintains it's SoCs in-house, and at least to a degree value device longevity because that keeps second-hand prices relatively high, and that aligns somewhat with Apples interests.
Not quite 10 years, but we've seen feature updates for just under 7 years with the iPhone 6s (released 2015), and it's still receiving security updates and bug fixes.
I am typing this from a phone that I am already considering replacing for this very same reason although it does everything well and I looks brand new (rubber case, screen protection, etc.).
I understand phones are harder to upgrade because space is very limited but the e-waste we're generating (and the money impact) seems something that needs to be addressed.
Even at 5 years I only ever felt like I was upgrading because it was 'time', not out of a direct need.
I can only imagine a person getting 3 years out of a phone if they are buying junk.
Slightly disappointed it hasn't happened yet.
I use it watch youtube videos, browse the web (probably not the fastest but fast enough), use Google Maps, take pictures, listen to music. Basic phone usage you know.
Turning off app updates would have the same impact if you're right about the increasing memory requirements.
But I've been using devices with 4GB-6GB of memory for the past 8 years almost, and they don't feel that bad to use. My phone still has 6GB of memory and does all I want it to just fine.
Many phones are essentially abandoned by the manufacturer and don't receive any security updates not too long after release, which might just be an issue: https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/2023-12-01
Not only that, but many apps won't run on the older versions of the OS either, due to the API level deprecation in Android: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...
In other words, you don't really get much of a choice, unless you are buying a flagship device and not everyone will be able to do that. The same goes for the comparatively expensive iPhone devices, the cost also being a factor there for many.
To be fair my first smart phone was a Nokia Lumia 720, that thing did some damage to anything it hit.
Some people just seems to smash phones left and right and claim that they're just using them normally. I think it's just how some people interact with the world. Put an iPhone in a case and they aren't that brittle, I dropped mine plenty of times.
(Motorola Sapphire was my first, 1G, and I still have it somewhere. Powering it up would probably break several laws at this point. The SIM was an entire credit-card size also...)
My only problem is replacing an iPhone battery is now $99.
1. No wireless charging. Switching to this phone would require a big change in my household's ecosystem (sorry to use a big word for a small thing, but I can't think of a better one). We have $10 wireless charging discs all over the place, and it's nice to be able to charge whenever we set our phones down. I don't want to take a step backward.
2. The Verge's review suggests the camera is OK but not great. I've been taking Pixel photos for years, and my phone is always the one people ask to use for group shots at social events. I don't want to fuss with taking a picture ten times just to get the lighting right, and the Pixel almost always meets the bar on the first shot. It sucks that a consumption device like a phone has this one critical input feature, and that there is still so much of a computational photography gap between certain brands and the rest, but that's how it is, and it prevents me from seriously considering any of them. (This isn't unique to Pixel; I hear Apple does well in this area, too.)
3. Just a nit: why is the case 40 euros? I expect to pay a premium for the phone because of the specific compromises in the design and the resulting low volumes. But this is just another run-of-the-mill TPU case that I expect I'd have to routinely replace every couple years. I don't use screen protectors, but I have an even more allergic reaction to the 33-euro price of the one for sale. I know there are aftermarket options, but I'm already taking a risk of poor part/accessory availability in the future because it's a niche product, so I don't know whether they'll still be available when I need them years from now.
By the way, I do own a Framework laptop (11th-gen CPU), and I like it a lot. I plan to swap out the motherboard next year. Unlike the Fairphone, the Framework didn't impose cost and performance compromises right out of the gate. I support sustainability, but there's only so far I'm willing to go.
2. Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice.
3. They also take compromises to have an ethical production, try to guarantee there is no exploitation as much as they could, from the extraction of mineral, manufacturing ... (they didn't do it for all, but they are advancing as far as they could, also with all existing certifications for that, so it's normal that is expensive. So our choice to value that things, if we could afford it, or not.
The percentage value looks bad but how much is that in absolute terms? Using the figures from the article, wireless charging uses 6.75 Wh more per full charge. Assuming you charge that much every day, that's 2.46 kWh per year, or 42 cents at average US electricity prices[1]. I think that's a price worth paying for the convenience.
[1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...
Sure, but compared to everything else we use, smartphones use almost no energy. The one I'm typing this on has a battery capacity of 12 wh; if you have a resistive electric water heater, standing in a hot shower during the winter for an extra second would offset half of that.
Lots of sibling replies pointing out that the absolute energy loss is negligible and reasonable price for the convenience.
That’s fine.
But there’s a bigger point. This convenience is being used as a justification for sticking with big brand phones. Which maybe tips the balance on the reasonableness, and, more broadly, raises the general issue of how much buying for convenience is a slippery slope. Maybe just charge with a cable?
Conversely, the rather slow charge rate of wireless helps extend battery life quite a lot. This is why I never use fast charging, avoid wired charging in general, and limit my battery to 85% max charge. It's been three or four years and my battery is still at ~80% health.
Which is worse, wasting a small amount of power or trashing your phone's battery in a year or two? One has significantly higher monetary and environmental costs.
Besides all that, wired charging is not nearly as efficient as you think. The charge circuitry in your phone is optimistically 80-90%. The wall adapter can be anywhere from 50 to 90%, and scales pretty closely to how much you paid for it. Efficiency also goes down with faster charge rates.
I design switching converters and lithium charge circuits for my job. They're pretty great, but not nearly as good as you'd think.
The energy waste is a shame, but the convenience factor is mighty high, not to mention the wear and tear on your USB-C port is non-existent. Maybe one point for less USB cable waste and tossing perfectly good phones just because their USB ports are damaged?
The concern about wireless inefficiency is very well-placed, however, in the case of electric cars. EVs will become an enormous consumer of electricity in the near future, so small changes now can have a big cumulative effect. "Charge your car as conveniently as your phone" would be an effective marketing tagline, so to that extent I agree that phones set a bad example for needless energy consumption in the name of convenience.
(edit: oops, bunch of other commenters made the same point while I was writing mine)
That's also the main reason I'm not interested in wireless charging. A wire works fine, and it seems pretty obvious to me that wireless can never be as efficient. But I never had exact support for this belief, so thank you for that.
> Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice.
With their modular approach, it would be nice if you could buy a better camera for it. I know that suggestion has been around since Fairphone 2, so I guess there must be a good reason why they're not doing that.
But if Fairphone was popular enough, I bet there would be a massive aftermarket for such upgrades.
TBH some wired chargers are only 60 percent efficient in converting AC to DC. Then you'll also have energy losses inside the phone converting 5vdc to 3.7vdc for the lithium battery.
But, what? this is ~7 watts per charge completely full charge?
One could do the following and offset those 7 watts with a lot more to spare:
Add another layer of insulation.
Add a heat pump.
Add solar panels to your roof.
Stop mining Bitcoin.
Not to mention all the previous generations of phones that had it.
Oh well.
I'm shocked we have come to this as a society. If you don't accept any compromises, just admit that you don't really care and move on.
If the average social gathering is more than two people, this is already a minority use case.
If the average is even just 10 that's only at most 10% of cell phone users like you.
In short, I believe you've just written the first formal proof of obscurantism on HN. :)
2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care.
3. The accessory case is a criticism is a bit more valid but come on. THis phone is losing money on every sale. If they sell one of these cases for every phone, they MAY come out ahead because as you said, the cases are cheap junk. Don't buy the case if this is a problem. This last years, apple switched from leather cases to "vegan leather". Same cost, made in china. More than the cost of this fair phone case.
I feel like if you own a framework, you should understand that the criticisms you listed are.....not criticisms and are in fact features or obvious requirements for a loss-leading edge case device. There is no 100 percent, perfect, sustainable mobile device like there is for workstations, because the walled garden of mobile devices is unfortunatley just more rigidly architectured.
The whole idea of smartphone cameras is that nobody is editing RAWs. I have issues with the GP comment but wanting a high quality camera is not one of them. Taking decent-to-great smartphone photos, whether inane or artistic, is a staple of modern life. (Although it sounds more like a status thing in their case, like they don't want someone else in their social group to be the go-to photographer? Maybe it was just not worded clearly.)w
I.e. Iphone 15 surely not. But iphone 5 for sure yes. Where is the cutoff?
I’m choosing iphones because they’re recognizable and have a predictable release schedule. Let’s disregard ios vs android angle if possible.
I just bought a new phone. I didn't feel good about my fairphone experience.
For what it's worth, I don't know of any systemic problems / higher than usual error rates with the Fairphone 3 main board. You got unlucky.
Consider giving them another shot sometime!
That said, one reason for the Fairphone price is the "fair to the people labouring for the parts of the phone" part. I'm unhappy with the camera quality, but honestly knowing that the premium I pay means fairer working conditions is for me an important element. I prefer to pay the small social enterprise establishing a new kind of supply chain and developing a modular phone, rather than the Samsung CEOs and stockholders.
It's probably not as suitable for phones what with changes to antenna requirements and such though.
However, I do want to point out that when such unfortunate things happen, perhaps the remaining parts that still works could be helpful to other fairphone users?
Another friend got rid of her FP2 this spring in favor of a FP4, but only because some apps she uses got really unusable. Otherwise she would've stayed.
IMO it's a fairly good platform and I'm looking forward to how it evolves in the future. Hopefully they will introduce a smaller phone at one point.
I was hoping for more upgrades to be available over time, but that was never the case. Instead, two new models appeared with a year interval and the 4 didn't even get any upgrades. Worse even, the 3.5mm jack was removed, following the trend of getting customers to buy headphones with a limited life time due to their battery. The promise of being the responsible choice for the planet is fading away.
I also faced issues when it came to repairing my device. After only 3 months the USB-C port died, impossible to charge it and once out of battery, I couldn't get my data from it. I contacted the support and they offered me two solutions: I send in the phone, it will get fixed but wiped clean or I order the part online and they reimburse me (they couldn't just send it from the repair center...). I chose the latter as I didn't want to loose my data and felt it was the more ecologically responsible choice, especially since the phone is so repairable. Well, the part was not available on their store, checked every retailer in Europe and third party parts don't exist. I was stuck with a brick for 4 months. The irony is that if I had an iPhone or Galaxy, I could get it fixed the same day at the phone repair shop around the corner...
I appreciate all the efforts Fairphone put in setting up more responsible supply chains. But in my opinion they still failed on their sustainability promise. The devices aren't well supported, it's difficult to repair them and they quickly fall behind due to the lack of upgrades (that also goes with the main board not being replaceable). New devices follow the disastrous trends of other brands with a new model each year and removing the headphone jack. Sure, they are a business and need to make money, but not by going against their own values.
I think batteries are the main consumable of a phone. It seems to me there should be an after-market of smaller batteries, and a set of universal power adapters (like you get with power supplies), and shims to fit it securely within the phone.
But I haven't seen this, so either people prefer to upgrade (demand) or manufacturers successfully made it too hard (supply).
That is the case in general with fairphone, if you just want a cheap phone you can buy an iPhone.
Out of context, this sounds so wrong.
Oh, actually, I guess I do know why an opaque part of a thousand dollar phone is made out of incredibly fragile glass, but I’ve made it two years without cutting myself too terribly badly and I’m not planning on replacing it while it still works.
(Obviously, the front glass is broken too but that’s utterly unremarkable for an apple product).
my iPhone 4 battery went up in smoke after owning it for 1.5 years.
my iPhone 6 plus developed touch disease after 2 years, the replacement developed touch disease after a week, and the second replacement began exhibiting mild symptoms after a couple months, the nand failed after another 2 years. (applecare replacements mind you.) plus I wasn't a huge fan of apple trying to sweep the issue under the rug until it gained nationwide attention.
Dead Comment
Anyone with experience of having a fairphone for multiple years?