they should have focused on building light-duty utility vehicles based on the Model Y platform. A ModelY Truck could be like the Ford Maverick or a 90s Tacoma, the Van could be like Ford Transit Connect. It would be significantly faster to market, re-using the some of the production lines, and there's a huge market (landscaping, residential trades, short-haul delivery, etc). Elon was high off his own supply the year he launched CT, Semi, & Roadster
Our local Tesla dealer just got a Cybertruck on display last week and I went and took a look at it last weekend. My impression is the front end is actually pretty good looking, they rounded it off quite a bit from the original prototype and it has a similar shape as other Tesla models like the Y. The headlight bar is actually really cool and the frunk is probably pretty big. The back half of the Cybertruck is a travesty, in addition to just being really angular and ugly they lost some of the most useful aspects of being a truck, like being able to throw gear over the side of the bed, or being able to put a custom cap on the back. The Cybertruck is excessively long for all the more cargo capacity it gives you, all because of that ugly angular back end. A lot of people are probably going to shy away from buying one because it's not going to fit in their garage. The custom tires are probably going to cost a fortune to replace as well, for no real good reason other than looks. In short Tesla designed 50% of a pretty cool truck, it really could have changed the segment.
What's a "custom cap"? Is it like a tonneau cover (I'm from Aus, not sure if they're a thing in other countries)? Or something more like a tailgate pad for bikes?
You're exactly right. The Cybertruck an enormous misstep for the company. And the amazing thing is Tesla figured out with the Model S that if you make a nice sedan that happens to be electric—people will buy it. There were a lot of people with disposable income that want to help the environment, but wanted to drive something nicer and less weird looking than a Prius.
They should have taken the same approach with their pickup. People expect trucks to be able to haul, tow and have a certain amount of bed space. If they were serious about building a pickup, they'd build something like the Lightning—a truck that could do all of that, but happens to be electric. Heck, if they did that Rivian might not be in business.
The Cybertruck is a novelty item and nobody who wants or needs the utility of a truck is going to consider it over a Rivian or F-150 Lightning.
“People expect trucks to be able to haul, tow and have a certain amount of bed space.”
Oh how I wish that were true. Most pickups are just vanity items now. Americans who drive pickups don’t care about the environment, they want something big and flashy with more power.
Frankly, I've always pegged the cybertruck as a very "video gamer skulls and crossbones rawr" aesthetic...
...that I'm sure will be unironically adopted by authoritarian police forces as society seems oddly keen to adopt straight from dystopian sci fi movies.
I mean, why would I even care about bulletproof or even baseball pitch proof glass if I wasn't keen to crawl my vehicle over civilians who might shoot or throw things at me?
Seems to be aiming towards a different market than the F150.
> There were a lot of people with disposable income that want to help the environment
Most Tesla owners I know (and I know a lot), do not care about the environment more than the average non-owner who drive similarly priced vehicles.
I think the Venn diagram converges more on: people who have a lot of disposable income, but also who want to drive something modern and still be smart with their money (fuel and maintenance costs).
The Rivian has a 4.5 foot bed[0] and the F-150 Lightning has a 5.5 foot bed[1]. I don't think it's fair to call Cybertruck a novelty item based on its capabilities, especially compared to its competition.
(Of course there are completely legitimate downsides of Cybertruck - for example, with the sloped bed sides, it won't be able to tow a fifth wheel trailer. But that is a capability the vast majority of truck owners don't use.)
I disagree. I think the Cybertruck is going to fundamentally change what a pickup truck is and immediately antiquate the F-150-style truck that we all know and (were kind-of forced to) love.
This is validated by the absolutely insanely long line queueing up to buy this thing.
I predict that we'll see many more Cybertruck looking trucks in five years, just like we're seeing many more Model Y looking EVs now.
I would imagine most folks at YCombinator would aspire to make similar mis-steps then, with >2m pre-orders and a 5 year waitlist. Yes, it was only $100 deposit and ultimate demand has yet to be tested, but it looks pretty promising.
The difference with Rivian and the F-150 is that Tesla have figured out how to actually make a good margin on their vehicles.
> The Cybertruck is a novelty item and nobody who wants or needs the utility of a truck is going to consider it over a Rivian or F-150 Lightning.
I wouldn't say "nobody". I'm sure there are a few million far-right types or Musk-is-Tony-Stark holdouts that are interested in driving the Bat-light equivalent of virtual signaling. Not everyone is rational and in the United States today, every single thing you purchase is part of some sort of weird identity flare ensemble. The Cybertruck may be on its way to become the most extravagant "Not Woke" badge you can wear.
We don't need more trucks that look like every other truck on the market, just like we don't need more sedans that look like the same boring bar of soap. I'm not a huge Tesla fan, but I'm glad someone out there is taking some design risk rather than just copying the look of every other vehicle out there.
Not sure why this was down voted. If you're hauling, the lightning gets very little mileage. If you've got a camper trailer, you're not going far from home, even if the campsite has chargers (lol). Compare with a regular truck, where you can haul something as far as you can drive. Got to take something to the hazwaste dump that's hundreds of miles away? Lightning is a non starter.
This isn't to say Lightning is all bad, but it's a fundmentally limited product right now compared to a real pickup. It's almost like what's suited for an urban lifestyle isn't for everyone.
This is similar to discussing the off-road capabilities of a Range Rover. The extent of off-roading for most Range Rovers is typically just driving onto a front lawn.
Most cybertruck owners will likely show little to no concern about its towing capacity.
The hope with new technology is always that its better than existing tech, possibly in extreme ways (10x better). It would be great if electric vehicles just blew away ICE vehicles traditional metrics, I think that's one of the ways Tesla got its foothold in the first place with the Roadster acceleration numbers.
If the selling point is only environmental, and not price or anything else then the transition will be a harder sell to consumers.
I’m thinking that payload capacity might actually be the total payload rather than the bed, so 2500 - passengers and interior cargo? Or is that how it’s always rated.
Your expectations about bed size might be off. You also can't load a bike lengthwise in a 4-door F-150 or a 4-door Ram 1500, both of which have 5.5 foot beds. I personally think it's kind of silly for a truck, but that's what the market is apparently asking for.
It's ridiculous. I tried to find a standard cab (or extended cab at most), standard 8' bed truck, and was referred to the fleet vehicle sales at our local ford dealer. They only sell that kind to large businesses who dump the standard bed and install custom box beds or tool beds.
People want quad cabs and 4' beds, apparently. I don't get it, even slightly.
The way the truck segment works, it's pretty inevitable. More and more people buying them with no intention to use as trucks, means cab encroaching into the bed space.
If we want Tesla to make a low-profit margin work truck to actually get things done, you’re talking about a 4 cylinder Nissan Frontier with an extended cab.
I think that the popularity of the Ford Maverick and so on mean that the bed isn't for that kind of thing.
Also, for those upset with the inability to find a modern truck with a long bed and short cab, the answer someone suggested is a van. It's a pretty good substitute.
Pickup trucks are for the "work boots with heel lifts" market. The average hatchback can carry a bike or two while the average pickup cannot, but the pickup sure looks meaner. Everyone knows trucks are an expensive fashion accessory intended to signify contempt for fashion. Enough people pretend not to notice that they still do their job.
The Cybertruck's problem is that it doesn't keep up the pretense.
Musk has a bad habit of over-promising (among many other bad habits like being garbage human) but there’s nothing unreasonable about the product being delivered.
The article is a bit silly to compare this to a Ram 3500. Anytime you say something like “toughest truck out there” that’s just marketing puffery (“tough” isn’t a quantitative measure, it’s basically just an opinion), Ford says the exact same type of stuff about their “built Ford tough” F-150 that most buyers use as a glorified minivan.
Plenty of automakers have made big promises about concept vehicles.
I think there’s a cohort in the media that wants this thing to fail so badly. I certainly don’t want one, but I think it has everything that sells well in the American automotive market.
Readit News
What's a "custom cap"? Is it like a tonneau cover (I'm from Aus, not sure if they're a thing in other countries)? Or something more like a tailgate pad for bikes?
They should have taken the same approach with their pickup. People expect trucks to be able to haul, tow and have a certain amount of bed space. If they were serious about building a pickup, they'd build something like the Lightning—a truck that could do all of that, but happens to be electric. Heck, if they did that Rivian might not be in business.
The Cybertruck is a novelty item and nobody who wants or needs the utility of a truck is going to consider it over a Rivian or F-150 Lightning.
Oh how I wish that were true. Most pickups are just vanity items now. Americans who drive pickups don’t care about the environment, they want something big and flashy with more power.
...that I'm sure will be unironically adopted by authoritarian police forces as society seems oddly keen to adopt straight from dystopian sci fi movies.
I mean, why would I even care about bulletproof or even baseball pitch proof glass if I wasn't keen to crawl my vehicle over civilians who might shoot or throw things at me?
Seems to be aiming towards a different market than the F150.
Most Tesla owners I know (and I know a lot), do not care about the environment more than the average non-owner who drive similarly priced vehicles.
I think the Venn diagram converges more on: people who have a lot of disposable income, but also who want to drive something modern and still be smart with their money (fuel and maintenance costs).
0: https://rivian.com/r1t (Dimensions → Storage)
1: https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America...
(Of course there are completely legitimate downsides of Cybertruck - for example, with the sloped bed sides, it won't be able to tow a fifth wheel trailer. But that is a capability the vast majority of truck owners don't use.)
This is validated by the absolutely insanely long line queueing up to buy this thing.
I predict that we'll see many more Cybertruck looking trucks in five years, just like we're seeing many more Model Y looking EVs now.
The difference with Rivian and the F-150 is that Tesla have figured out how to actually make a good margin on their vehicles.
I wouldn't say "nobody". I'm sure there are a few million far-right types or Musk-is-Tony-Stark holdouts that are interested in driving the Bat-light equivalent of virtual signaling. Not everyone is rational and in the United States today, every single thing you purchase is part of some sort of weird identity flare ensemble. The Cybertruck may be on its way to become the most extravagant "Not Woke" badge you can wear.
I'm planning on having a cybertruck as our car for town and trips, and keep my 1500 for actual work and recreation.
I generally want an extra can of gas to fill up the truck when on the trail and on the ranch.
Do you live during the zombie apocalypse? It seems so unnecessary and unsafe to those around you especially pedestrians.
This isn't to say Lightning is all bad, but it's a fundmentally limited product right now compared to a real pickup. It's almost like what's suited for an urban lifestyle isn't for everyone.
This sounds a lot like the classic "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Why is that?
If the selling point is only environmental, and not price or anything else then the transition will be a harder sell to consumers.
https://www.threads.net/@iamspecialized/post/CzpC3-0OuEc
People want quad cabs and 4' beds, apparently. I don't get it, even slightly.
That’s not the market for a $60,000 luxury truck.
You can also get a 4 door (crew cab) truck with a 6.5 foot bed.
Dead Comment
Also, for those upset with the inability to find a modern truck with a long bed and short cab, the answer someone suggested is a van. It's a pretty good substitute.
The Cybertruck's problem is that it doesn't keep up the pretense.
Dead Comment
Deleted Comment
The article is a bit silly to compare this to a Ram 3500. Anytime you say something like “toughest truck out there” that’s just marketing puffery (“tough” isn’t a quantitative measure, it’s basically just an opinion), Ford says the exact same type of stuff about their “built Ford tough” F-150 that most buyers use as a glorified minivan.
Plenty of automakers have made big promises about concept vehicles.
I think there’s a cohort in the media that wants this thing to fail so badly. I certainly don’t want one, but I think it has everything that sells well in the American automotive market.