My gaming group had a big ole Planescape campaign in 1995/1996, and the DM, myself and my then-girlfriend, now wife, went to Gencon. We met the creators, and did some fun little Planescape sessions they had set up. In our campaign, my wife was playing a red-headed tiefling with a devil's tail named Lilah. Being nerds, we of course told the Planescape devs all about our campaign. My wife even has a sketch of Lilah from Tony D in the (then, just released) Planewalker's Handbook.
In 1997, Planescape Torment came out, and we loved it. However, it was a bit shocking to find they had an NPC named Annah, that was a red-headed tiefling with a devil's tail. We still think Annah was heavily drawn from Lilah!
This was actually before the 3rd edition take on tieflings with the horns, although we agree it isn't an uncommon motif, except almost no one knew much about Planescape in 1996 - the events were really sparse because it was considered a really "weird" setting by the core attendees of Gencon. It was literally the three of us, one or two other people, and most of the Planescape devs. Which was fun hanging out with them, including Tony D, Monte Cook, Colin and several others. The next year, in 1997, the three of us went again, and there was a trivia contest for Planescape lore. They had to stop letting us answer questions because we were ringers :)
>> Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go
“wow.”
>> There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes,
and even undead babes.
Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want.
It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck.
There are a couple of unfortunate character portraits of "babes", that don't match the actual character descriptions or behavior. It's the only juvenile aspect to the game, along with some of Morte's quips.
The actual game is neither juvenile nor a power fantasy. It is an anti-power-fantasy. It is about atonement for past misdeeds. Killing is often not the solution, and in fact there is a "pacifist" walkthrough.
Most of the characters you find are mentally and physically scarred by things done to them by [redacted].
I think this is a common problem artists have to deal with. The art they want to make (and that fans want to get) vs the industry approval filter. You have to lie to at least one of these groups.
See new Netflix shows for how idiotic and self-sabotaging it can get if you choose lying to fans (see Witcher).
> Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want.
IIRC it was the other way around, the pitch document went overboard with that because it was what the executives/publisher believed audiences would want :-)
Remember this wasn't the design document but the document to convince those with money to spend that money to make the game.
The lead designer (Chris Avellone), who I think was the primary author of this document, is often playful and energetic/hyperbolic with his language, yet is extremely focused and professional in his approach to the actual game design. (I.e., this exact type of disconnect between the energy/tone of this document and the energy/tone of the game is consistent with what I know of him. The self depreciation, noted in the comment below by ricardobayes, is also on brand for him.)
Source: I've worked with Chris very directly on three games and indirectly on several others. We've talked about this document in passing before (though I didn't know him until a few years later).
IIRC the game does have a couple of female characters that could be seen as catering to that kind of a stereotype, at least in terms of appearance if not necessarily the story.
But I also got the overall vibe that the pitch document goes overboard in terms of emphasizing that aspect as well as other kinds of shallow badassery such as the violence of the game.
The pitch document also makes a big fuss about "ego masturbation" and the "player's power fantasy", and how the main character and his destiny are the centrepieces of everything. But that's not the vibe I got from the game at all. The main character is obviously at the centre of a lot of things, and I think the games does allow you to play selfishly. But I don't think the game really directs you towards that, let alone glorifying the character or the results of his past actions. Those parts of the pitch document read really weird to me.
The game does of course make a point of being morbid and gruesome, even macabre. But I think the game does that with a lot less bravado than the pitch document suggests.
But then, it is a pitch document, and not even marketing for the finished product.
Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of.
The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS.
I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.
I don't think so. The language used in 2023 may be different, but the intent is the same: "Give them nudity, give them sex, give them violence. This is what will make us money".
This language is unconventional for business even in the 90s. Additionally men wouldn't talk this way in front of women in Any time.
The difference now is it's less culturally accepted to talk like this even in casual situations even when just among men.
Plenty women objectify men by wealth and status and they refer to men this way even publicly. The cultural change is mostly one sided, skewed more towards not offending women.
For example, referring to men as Hunks or Chads is just not offensive at all. In fact it's a compliment. I feel it's almost entitlement if a girl gets offended by being called a babe.
What were the chances? I installed Planescape Torment last night, to play around a bit with it. It's been sitting in my "to-try" list for at least 15 years!
I'm however not very fond of having to sit down on my desk to play games with keyboard and mouse, though... I already spend enough of my life sitting in the exact same position for work. That alone discourages me from playing several old games I own (and not so old, like the newer X-Com) and even the newer Monkey Island game (which of course is sitting in the same list for some years now too)
People have rose tinted glasses when they talk about old games.
PS:T was a cut above the other cRPGs of its time mainly because it had adequate writing and an engaging story when most other cRPGs were trite. Still everything after Raven’s maze is just average until the ending where it gets good again and the gameplay outside of dialogue is frankly uninteresting. It’s in a lot of way like the original Dark Soul whose last half is so aweful I’m not sure the awesome first one is enough to redeem the game.
PS:T has now been bested by plenty of modern cRPGs. I’m not sure it’s worth revisiting considering how long it is.
One of the steam deck's really underappreciated features is the trackpads. You can use them to play a whole heap of KB+M games that were otherwise off bounds for a handheld.
I've been playing through the Sam & Max episodic games this way: trackpad for pointer, and buttons for clicks. It doesn't need fast-paced interactions so it's very forgiving there. When more speed is needed, I've heard others combine the trackpad with some minor gyro mouse input such that the touchpad does the coarse pointer manipulation and then gyro does the fine detail. Apparently you can get quite fast with this approach.
Basically, the game doesn't work any more on my Android 13 device, because devs need to go back to it and recompile the sources for 64-bit ARM.
Naturally with a change like that with no compatibility layer available, there will be tons of apps and games left behind as abandonware, because their devs have better things to do (if they are even still around, at all!) than going back and recompiling all their source code. We'll see if BeamDog ever gets to it for PS:T!
The Steam Deck came to completely replace my gaming on PC precisely because of this, but mouse+keyboard type games are a mixed bag of experiences... depends a lot on each game.
This one seems to run great, touch screen probably helps a lot. Only complaints seem to be small text on screen:
I also wasn't able to adapt to first person shooters, after a life of playing with mouse, it is almost impossible for me to not feel that gamepad controls are clunky.
When I lived in a house with a treadmill, I hooked my Macbook up to a TV and used a gamepad mapped to mouse (move, click, scroll) input to play a lot of older games while walking. It’s what inspired me to build my own remap software.
Because yeah I can’t sit at a computer to play games.
I purchased "Planescape: Torment: Enhanced" in Google Play on my Amazon Fire tablet a couple years ago. Probably missed out on a few keyboard shortcuts, but like you I don't sit at the computer for gaming much anymore.
I definitely feel this ever since switching primarily to remote work. I buy PC games periodically that are often amazing but I struggle to find myself able to dedicate much time to them because I already spend way too much time in the room taking care of work stuff. Console games are more doable because I can play them on the couch.
Does this make me want to go back into the office full time? Not sure. The quick commute from my bed to my desk might be worth the sacrifice, but part of me definitely longs for the work of the before times.
X-Com 1 & 2 on ipad are good too. Sure, you don't have the same flexibility as on the computer but it's nice NOT to be tied to the same device in the same place.
I often wish they make this game a TV show or even a series of movies, because the scenario, beyond the fact it's amazingly good, has potential for a lot of new arcs, thanks to the very concept of the game.
Characters scream for a bigger screen, with colorful personalities and back stories, plus they got a design made to scale to awesomeness.
And with the world building, you got a solid base plus endless possibilities.
I enjoyed the game very much, but let's face it, it's too old for most new gamers to appreciate.
Not mentioned: "over 800,000 words of dialogue, our game will be remembered as the best eight D&D visual novels ever written". It's interesting how much of this pitch focusses on the gameplay when it's the extensive writing that ends up being memorable.
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In 1997, Planescape Torment came out, and we loved it. However, it was a bit shocking to find they had an NPC named Annah, that was a red-headed tiefling with a devil's tail. We still think Annah was heavily drawn from Lilah!
Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want.
It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck.
Its kinda refrshing.
There are a couple of unfortunate character portraits of "babes", that don't match the actual character descriptions or behavior. It's the only juvenile aspect to the game, along with some of Morte's quips.
The actual game is neither juvenile nor a power fantasy. It is an anti-power-fantasy. It is about atonement for past misdeeds. Killing is often not the solution, and in fact there is a "pacifist" walkthrough.
Most of the characters you find are mentally and physically scarred by things done to them by [redacted].
See new Netflix shows for how idiotic and self-sabotaging it can get if you choose lying to fans (see Witcher).
IIRC it was the other way around, the pitch document went overboard with that because it was what the executives/publisher believed audiences would want :-)
Remember this wasn't the design document but the document to convince those with money to spend that money to make the game.
The lead designer (Chris Avellone), who I think was the primary author of this document, is often playful and energetic/hyperbolic with his language, yet is extremely focused and professional in his approach to the actual game design. (I.e., this exact type of disconnect between the energy/tone of this document and the energy/tone of the game is consistent with what I know of him. The self depreciation, noted in the comment below by ricardobayes, is also on brand for him.)
Source: I've worked with Chris very directly on three games and indirectly on several others. We've talked about this document in passing before (though I didn't know him until a few years later).
But I also got the overall vibe that the pitch document goes overboard in terms of emphasizing that aspect as well as other kinds of shallow badassery such as the violence of the game.
The pitch document also makes a big fuss about "ego masturbation" and the "player's power fantasy", and how the main character and his destiny are the centrepieces of everything. But that's not the vibe I got from the game at all. The main character is obviously at the centre of a lot of things, and I think the games does allow you to play selfishly. But I don't think the game really directs you towards that, let alone glorifying the character or the results of his past actions. Those parts of the pitch document read really weird to me.
The game does of course make a point of being morbid and gruesome, even macabre. But I think the game does that with a lot less bravado than the pitch document suggests.
But then, it is a pitch document, and not even marketing for the finished product.
That will tell you what you need to know about the state of the computer gaming industry and publishers at that point.
This was circa-"John Romero's about to make you his bitch" [0] as acceptable copy for a full-page ad.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana#Promotion_and_rele...
PS:T is a well written and introspective RPG and in this capacity it is rivaled by only a handful of contenders.
The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS.
I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.
Deleted Comment
> Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes.
Slightly different times :)
Like, "Why, hello there, infant." dogwhistle
The difference now is it's less culturally accepted to talk like this even in casual situations even when just among men.
Plenty women objectify men by wealth and status and they refer to men this way even publicly. The cultural change is mostly one sided, skewed more towards not offending women.
For example, referring to men as Hunks or Chads is just not offensive at all. In fact it's a compliment. I feel it's almost entitlement if a girl gets offended by being called a babe.
> You mean that slack-jawed beyond the grave look?
I'm however not very fond of having to sit down on my desk to play games with keyboard and mouse, though... I already spend enough of my life sitting in the exact same position for work. That alone discourages me from playing several old games I own (and not so old, like the newer X-Com) and even the newer Monkey Island game (which of course is sitting in the same list for some years now too)
PS:T was a cut above the other cRPGs of its time mainly because it had adequate writing and an engaging story when most other cRPGs were trite. Still everything after Raven’s maze is just average until the ending where it gets good again and the gameplay outside of dialogue is frankly uninteresting. It’s in a lot of way like the original Dark Soul whose last half is so aweful I’m not sure the awesome first one is enough to redeem the game.
PS:T has now been bested by plenty of modern cRPGs. I’m not sure it’s worth revisiting considering how long it is.
The newest monkey Island is steam Deck verified and also works with gamepad on your tv computer etc :)
I think new x-com games are steam deck playable. And original xcom game is eminently playable on any old laptop :)
I've been playing through the Sam & Max episodic games this way: trackpad for pointer, and buttons for clicks. It doesn't need fast-paced interactions so it's very forgiving there. When more speed is needed, I've heard others combine the trackpad with some minor gyro mouse input such that the touchpad does the coarse pointer manipulation and then gyro does the fine detail. Apparently you can get quite fast with this approach.
And ofcourse like others have pointed out the Steam Deck is amazing also older games.
The new Monkey Island is also available for atleast the Switch btw.
Wonder what would have happened if Android was a Microsoft platform :-)
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/87197/pst-ee-on-androi...
Basically, the game doesn't work any more on my Android 13 device, because devs need to go back to it and recompile the sources for 64-bit ARM.
Naturally with a change like that with no compatibility layer available, there will be tons of apps and games left behind as abandonware, because their devs have better things to do (if they are even still around, at all!) than going back and recompiling all their source code. We'll see if BeamDog ever gets to it for PS:T!
This one seems to run great, touch screen probably helps a lot. Only complaints seem to be small text on screen:
https://www.protondb.com/app/466300
I also wasn't able to adapt to first person shooters, after a life of playing with mouse, it is almost impossible for me to not feel that gamepad controls are clunky.
Is it with a touchscreen or knobs on the side?
I think I would still miss a mouse for precision and speed with that ..
Because yeah I can’t sit at a computer to play games.
Does this make me want to go back into the office full time? Not sure. The quick commute from my bed to my desk might be worth the sacrifice, but part of me definitely longs for the work of the before times.
Give it a try, its control scheme is designed very well.
It plays very nicely for that format.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/466300/Planescape_Torment...
BTW: 4K resolution support.
[0] https://www.gog.com/en/game/planescape_torment_enhanced_edit...
Characters scream for a bigger screen, with colorful personalities and back stories, plus they got a design made to scale to awesomeness.
And with the world building, you got a solid base plus endless possibilities.
I enjoyed the game very much, but let's face it, it's too old for most new gamers to appreciate.
If gamers rewarded well-written games, and avoided poorly written ones, pitches would focus a lot more on writing.
https://rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=55 (part 1)
https://rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=56 (part 2)